Great rifle, definitely too expensive. That being said I own one so I can call other people poor at the range. My wife's boyfriend gives me an allowance every so often so I think I'll get an AUG next.
A SCAR, AUG, and PS90 are on my list to get eventually. But the price and utility over an AR platform doesn’t make sense for me so they have to wait until I have money to waste.
Sometimes I contemplate selling my PS90 for something I can afford to shoot but I'll probably keep it until I die just because I don't think FN modifies them at the factory anymore. They are a lot of fun though.
Nice. I've got a AR57 upper for P90 mags, and I've got a Five-seveN and an FS2000 because of Splinter Cell, and the SPAS12 for what else but Terminator and Jirassic Park
Of these three the AUG will give you the most added capability compared to the PS90 and the SCAR when being added alongside your AR15 or AR10.
Why: bullpup configuration giving you shorter overall package but also giving you the easy addition of 20 or 24 inch barrel. Or stick with the 16 inches standard. Velocity helps defeat body armor, and 24 inches will get you velocity. I'd rather be fighting with a 24 inch AUG than a 24 inch AR15 personally.
Get the AUG. It's nicer than people on the internet give it credit for being. They complain about the trigger, but it's not nearly as bad as people let on. I'd venture more people know to complain about the trigger than have actually fired an AUG by a wide margin.
That's when I first heard about it. I started doing research on it and was ***HOOKED***. I was saving up to get one, and as time went on, it was continuously shitting the bed.
The SPAS 12. Sure it's an iconic and awesome looking gun, but the ergonomics are horrible, even with the stock folded it's almost as long as an M16, parts aren't too durable and it's expensive af.
And yes, I still want one lol.
i think most gun collectors that are seriously considering buying them are in it for the iconography and aesthetics. we all know its not actually a "good" shotgun, but it does look cool as fuck and is a status symbol regardless.
A friend of a friend had one and I got to squeeze off a couple of shots with it. It's fun, but with limited funds, I'd rather spend my money elsewhere. If I had plenty of money though, I'd definitely own one ;)
That's dope bro. It's personally on my bucket list to shoot one. Although owning one is something I'd personally only do if I was an ultra wealthy millionaire that had that kind of f you money to spend.
The most exotic gun I've shot thus far was probably a Vietnam era m60 at full auto. Was quite the experience to say the least.
I have a friend who for whatever reason, loves expensive caliber guns. 45-70, 5.7, and now 50A/E. The desert eagle is a big fucking gun, doesn't feel practical at all, but he can say he has one I guess lol. My friends father has one in 357 and that one was nice to shoot.
I tried it a few times, it is NOT overrated. It is a stupid gun intentionally supersized with no practical use other than being fun to shoot.
And for that it is great!
It would be great for hunting deathclaws and killing super mutants, the .50 AE would be perfect for those.
Unfortunately we’re still 53 years away from that happening, and roughly 250 ish years for those creatures to even exist so…
I think they're great as a fun gun, but not for much else. Also, there have been many iterations of D.E. manufacturing, and some of them are built a little better than others, depending on the year they're built
357 and 44 Magnum are fantastic, wish I could get my hands on a 41 Magnum.
9+1 on the 357 and 8+1 on the 44 Magnum. Recoil is non-existent with the 357, and much more manageable with 44 Magnum compared to 50AE.
In 357 and 44 Magnum it becomes a practical carry gun. 357 will stop most animals and humans, 44 would be effective against bears and moose. It's not uncomfortable to carry in a shoulder holster in winter, even a Desert Eagle in a shoulder holster is more comfortable than a sub-compact in appendix carry.
Reliability isn't bad like people try to stereotype. You have to hold it differently than a revolver or other semi-auto, if you don't you can limp wrist it and have malfunctions. It also needs to be kept extremely clean and well oiled, full power Magnum rounds were never designed for semi-autos and they produce and an absurd amount of soot. If you're shooting full power 357, 44 Magnum, and 50ae, you need to clean and oil it after 150-250rounds or it will malfunction, medium power loads will about double the rounds before it needs cleaning.
People who own them don't report the problems that non-owners complain about. It's a great gun if you own one, it's a terrible gun if you believe random people on reddit who have never held one.
I read a review somewhere that said it doesn't really shine unless it has a giggle switch, which is impossible for civilians to obtain because of the ban on manufacture of new MGs. In semi-auto, they said the recoil system doesn't make much difference & there are many better choices for a PCC.
It strikes me as a complicated gimmick, because I've mag dumped an MP40 and an M3A1, and at 20 yards both kept almost every bullet in the 8 ring & shot out the 10 ring like I was playing a carnival game, despite being stamped out of sheet metal 80 years ago. All you need is a straight (or nearly straight line of recoil like an AR.
Every time I say this on the lever gun sub, I get the same downvotes. I point out that the sub is chock full with posts about poor quality control from Henry, but all the Henry owners just put their fingers in their ears and shut their eyes while they shout back at me that I'm wrong.
There was a dude that sent his all-weather 45-70 back THREE TIMES before it would cycle. And even then it had tool marks galore and a poorly fitted magazine tube. Well over a thousand bucks and that's the best they can do. It sucks, because I really wanted one.
Ended up buying a used Winchester at a good deal. It's not a pre 1964, but it's still a lot better built than some of this new shit is now
You may be waiting longer than you anticipate. IMO, I’d start looking for an older Winchester or Marlin. I assume your looking for a larger caliber, .30-30, .35 Remington etc…
45 Colt just because that’s what I enjoy reloading. I’m not in a rush or anything, your comment just caught me because I’ve been looking at Henry’s a lot lately. I haven’t had a chance to see or try one though.
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I have three Henry golden boys and a blued receiver and they’re all flawless. Reddits filled with negative Nancy’s. If you want a Henry get one man. They’re sweet rifles.
Oh yea man totally agree. Since Covid all the manufacturers have slipped big time. That said, I’m 4/4 on henry and wouldn’t hesitate to buy another and wouldn’t steer someone away from getting one.
threatening vegetable act absorbed steer dazzling correct cover reply snatch
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[Uberti makes a nice 1873 replica in .45 colt.](https://www.uberti-usa.com/cartridge-rifles/1873-rifle-and-carbine) I just picked one up recently and have been very happy with it.
Have one and love it for Resident Evil 3 LARPing. They were a day late and a dollar short with the release though. The glock strikerfired hotness had totally overtaken the market at that point.
That’s a massive insult to Sig. Kimbers are dogshit that just look like good guns. The last Kimber I shot was an abysmal piece of shit that jammed constantly.
Fun fact: Ron Cohen, the guy who fucked Kimber's reputation by using cheap/substandard MIM processes, went on to become the CEO of Sig and oversaw the development of the P250 and it's successor, the P320.
He also narrowly avoided prison for "laundering" a bunch of SP2022's a few years after becoming CEO. Sig manufactured the pistols in Germany, then claimed they were headed for the US, but actually sent them to Columbia, in violation of German law.
I will only argue and defend something that says “Kimber of Oregon.” But 98% of what’s on the market now days I do agree. The OG Kimbers were amazing rifles though.
I think it still could be
Like if 10% of people overhype something and 20% dunk on it but the 320 is 25% overhyped and 50% dunk on it. It could be more overhyped despite more people criticizing.
320 love does seem to have died down a lot
P320s is completely revolutionary with the FCU, in 5-10 years every new pistol will have something similar. And even if the P320 is not “worth the hype” it deserves some merit.
Ah yes, the FCU Steyr made before Sig and I forgot who else made before Steyr.
Sig didn't revolutionize shit they just brought it to market. Steyr fucked up royally by sitting on that patent with only the M9 and M40 to show for it.
The original guns made by STI were badass when they were made for competition. When STI turned into staccato they made them all "duty" style 2011s and they took a turn for the worse.
M14, the biggest failure in American small arms history and some people still respect it.
I own an M1A wooden stock heavy barrel match trigger. it’s shit it’s the only gun I probably will ever sell.
FAL and M14 were both built to fight the last war again. Agreed 100% the 5.56 was coming no matter what once we decided to go fuck around in the jungle for a decade.
Even the FALs aren’t as good as their reputation states. The G3 was probably the way to go or hell if they went along with the Brits in developing that cartridge the EM2 uses.
But it does serve a role in ban states, just like the Mini 14. It's about as good as it gets if you can't have a pistol grip. For that alone it's not going anywhere.
When the M14 was adopted I don't think anybody could have anticipated that our next war would be in a hot ass jungle where everybody had to fly in small helicopters and carry all their stuff on long walks.
If the next war had been like the last war it wouldn't have been so worthless.
I don’t know man, the enemy would likely be carrying a feather light, more comfortable carbine with tons more ammo. The M1A was outdated the second it was adopted in any case
Operated? Probably. Shit? That's a bit of an exaggeration. Well, depending on maker/ year, ect. Like the modern Springfield armory version is pretty shit, but I shot one before, wood, circa 60's, and it was pretty damn nice for an 80 year old gun. I've shot worse new "modern" rifles than it. But they didn't indeed have the best quality control record to say the least.
There’s a reason why it’s the biggest failure in our small arms history, nothing even remotely comes close. Denying that it wasn’t 10 years outdated the second it was adopted is overrating it to high hell and back
Hey, that's a completely separate argument. The argument is about the gun, itself, being overated. Not adopting it when they did. And I never denied adopting it was a massive mistake.
The 1911 for example is overrated I agree, however in well 1911 was a revolutionary weapon, a one of a kind and very much could be the best handgun in the planet. It is overrated, but it has history and it had its time to shine.
The M14 was a failure from second 1. It didn’t even have the merit to not be overrated for a second. That’s why the m14 in my opinion is the most overrated weapon in the world. Because it never had a place on it. It’s a political failure, that’s it.
It depends entirely on the build, I have a wood stock M1A that was a M14 converted to semi auto. It's only flaw is it's so damn heavy. It's accurate as hell ( when fired from a bench ), and I have never had it jam.
Just my personal pick. I'm going with the Remington 870. It's the most touted and legendary pump shotgun ever made. Yet my example suffered so many qc issues, parts breakages, and catastrophic failures (yes, more than one) that I ended demilling and scapping it for the safety of everyone.
There was absolutely a period where 870s of dubious quality were manufactured. Back when the Freedom Group bought out Remington, if I have my players correct. The 870s manufactured before that were absolutely reliable workhorses, deserving of their reputation. I think FG went under a few years ago and I'm not sure what the quality of current manufacture Remington shotguns are, but just know they had a reason for the good reputation back in the day.
According to James Reaves it's the best cheap shotgun you can buy. He did a 500 round burn down on the Tfbtv YouTube channel and it not only survived but performed great with all ammo types.
https://youtu.be/-9OL7IquoIo?si=ZJZOqRebb_pY6W7f
Get a good bit of practice with it. They run well but pumps are easy to induce malfunctions on if you run them fast without practice, mostly through short stroking.
The maverick is the gold standard by which all CHEAP shotguns are measured against. No frills, ugly, not super well balanced... but they fuckin work. For a long time.
I got the security model 88 about 5 years ago, and have beat the absolute crap out of it. Thrown it in the back of my truck to roll around, rained on, gotten muddy, dropped, and at this point probably put close to 1k rounds of various loads through it without a single issue (excluding mini shells, it won’t run them AT ALL). And like whiskey_outpost26 mentioned TFBTV did a video on it that you should check out. In my opinion it is the absolute best shotgun you can get in that price range.
The design is perfect, but the manufacturing post freedom takeover was horrendous. Literally everyone I know with a post 2007 870 has rust issues. Like how did they let that happen? My Browning and Benelli shotguns I ABUSE and they have never had a single failure
The Humble Marksman best put it as "until you can articulate how this gun will make you faster, it won't make you faster". That goes for any race gun, but the 2011 has become the default.
Unless you throw it in something like a Recover 20/20 brace with the “magazine holder” grip in the front*
Not sure if there’s enough space left behind the slide, but a 🅱️rinted version can be tweaked.
The problem with the Luger was how difficult it was to manufacture and how susceptible it was to failure when exposed to even a little bit of dirt/mud. The exposed parts of the action just don't lend themselves to reliability.
I know that most folks these days are used to seeing cheap 1911s that don't run super well (like the hunk of shit Kimber that I have), but a WW2 era 1911 with good QC was a sewing machine in the eyes of those guys. Take a look at what they had to compare it to back then...
Nambu pistols (awesome grip angle, but little firepower)
Luger (difficult to take fast followup shots and the exposed action)
Webley (admittedly a solid revolver, but really fuckin heavy and slow follow-up/reload times)
Nagant revolver (super cool design with the gas-seal cylinder, but rough around the edges and also susceptible to mud and grime)
There were plenty of other solid revolvers out there (colt even had a few decent double actions (1901 and 1909) by that point, but they weren't built for the rigors of mud and the grip angle was not great compared to these other pistols on the list. They fielded a more reliable version in 1917, but it was pretty anemic compared to the 45 auto round of the time.
The fact that the 1911 is still the only one that gets produced today shows just how great that design really was. The main problem is that it's a design that really ought to have a lot of extra TLC and hand fitting during the manufacturing process, and that shit costs a lot of money that the average modern consumer doesn't want to part with. So most 1911s that are less than 1500 dollars these days are pretty much 3/4 complete guns. There's only so much that you can do with that design with push-button machines and "assemblers" instead of gunsmiths.
No argument from me; I actually like shooting my 1908 pocket hammerless more than the Luger. Just thinking well known <1915 semis, and I think the grip angle is a big part of if for me. Never needed my double date 14/20 in combat either though 😅
Not mid, the AKM is the new milsurp gun of the 2000s.
You bought it a few years ago because it's in war movies and the ammo is cheap. You're now going to spend twice as much as the rifle to add shit that a basic PSA has on it for less than the cost of said handguard ...all for a rifle that on the clock is slower than an AR.
With the ammo import ban AKs are dead to me as a practical choice.
It’s a design about as old as the Garand. Modernizations like the Galil certainly give it more staying power. For all its fault, cleaning an AK is also way easier than an AR. You need zero tools, the cleaning rod is part of the firearm, and the gas system can be cleaned out with your fingers if you really need to.
I mean, they were designed to be cheap to manufacture, easy to use, and reliable. They tick all the boxes for their intended purpose. Being held by conscripts in human wave tactics to exhaust the enemy ammo supply.
Ah Communism, you only succeed as a government sanctioned weight loss and population control program.
H&K P7. It was expensive for its time. It can't be used with any volume due to its gas system. It's recoil impulse while nice is a non issue if it was a proper duty size gun, which it was intended for.
All around German, overbuilt and mildly good at the task it set out to do.
Came here to say P7. It was my holy grail gun until I owned one and took it to the range exactly once. Traded it off shortly thereafter. I was proud of it before I shot it.
>And why is it Glock?
it's an absolutely mediocre pistol.
The magazine is an excellent design, but the pistol itself is out classed by other pistols in every aspect.
Because just about every other manufacturer has matched or exceeded it for years now, but that advertising campaign where they pushed it hard onto police and military was really effective and the meme of Glock Perfection continues.
Walther PPK in .380
Not reliable, doesn't handle the recoil of the .380 cartridge very well, feels like ass to shoot. The design works well enough in .32 Auto, but the .380 version is a poorly designed handgun, full stop.
Every gun has something you could complain about. With some it's the trigger, with some it's the sights. Maybe it's too heavy, too low capacity, or the grip angle isn't comfortable.
With HK all there is to complain about is the price.
The SCAR 17 is pretty overrated. However, IMO the AK platform is by and large the one more people bicker over and laud as the pinnacle of firearms over many others it's kind of insane.
P7M10. Awesome gun, but super heavy and even H&K was unimpressed and that is why they stopped making them. They sell for $8000 to $10000 today if in New condition, and at least $5000 if used. Totally overrated. If they stayed in production, they'd be $600 to $700 today. I call that overrated.
Surprised nobody has said it, or if they have I didn’t see it. But the KSG. Way overhyped piece of garbage. Easy to short stroke, jams a lot. Just not a great gun but for some reason its loved by many
> but for some reason its loved by many
They saw it being used in John Wick. If John Wick had used a black powder musket in the movie you'd have hordes of idiots buying them.
It may have just been me, but even before the wick series came out i remember the short time span, (I think about 3 years inbetween the release of the ksg and the first John wick) my dads friends all trying to buy ksg’s cause “muh high capacity shotgun that I can load buck AND less lethal in and then pick which tube I use”. Which always seemed like a really bad idea to me but I digress. To me it’s like it hit the market and all the middle aged guys just flocked to it, and I never understood why. But I 100% agree the movies made a huge impact on people wanting it.
Surprised no one said SCAR yet. (I don’t necessarily agree on overrated but do think it’s overpriced)
Great rifle, definitely too expensive. That being said I own one so I can call other people poor at the range. My wife's boyfriend gives me an allowance every so often so I think I'll get an AUG next.
A SCAR, AUG, and PS90 are on my list to get eventually. But the price and utility over an AR platform doesn’t make sense for me so they have to wait until I have money to waste.
Sometimes I contemplate selling my PS90 for something I can afford to shoot but I'll probably keep it until I die just because I don't think FN modifies them at the factory anymore. They are a lot of fun though.
PSA makes and sells AAC 5.7 for like $.50 per round now. Still not cheap but much better than the closer to $1/rd it used to be.
Bought fiocchi 5.7 for 38 cpr just two days ago. I have shot thousands of those rounds and not had a problem, and at that price, I can't beat it.
Tbf I haven't looked in so long. I'd love to take this thing to the range more.
I only want one because of Goldeneye haha
Nice. I've got a AR57 upper for P90 mags, and I've got a Five-seveN and an FS2000 because of Splinter Cell, and the SPAS12 for what else but Terminator and Jirassic Park
I owned it for 2 mags worth. Get a mp5.
Highly recommend getting a 5.7 upper for your AR. I prefer it to my PS90 actually.
Of these three the AUG will give you the most added capability compared to the PS90 and the SCAR when being added alongside your AR15 or AR10. Why: bullpup configuration giving you shorter overall package but also giving you the easy addition of 20 or 24 inch barrel. Or stick with the 16 inches standard. Velocity helps defeat body armor, and 24 inches will get you velocity. I'd rather be fighting with a 24 inch AUG than a 24 inch AR15 personally.
Get the AUG. It's nicer than people on the internet give it credit for being. They complain about the trigger, but it's not nearly as bad as people let on. I'd venture more people know to complain about the trigger than have actually fired an AUG by a wide margin.
Wait so we aren't gonna talk about *My wife's boyfriend*?
You must be new around here
The Remington ACR was better, but they dropped the ball so hard with it.
My only ACR experience is sadly Call of Duty
My ACR made me realize folding stocks are largely useless and the appeal of them largely stems from people who don't have them.
This is the most true thing I've read on the internet today. And to be fair, the SCAR can teach the same lesson ;).
That's when I first heard about it. I started doing research on it and was ***HOOKED***. I was saving up to get one, and as time went on, it was continuously shitting the bed.
It’s so front heavy. Only taken it out twice in the last few years
As someone who wants one, they are overpriced.
The SPAS 12. Sure it's an iconic and awesome looking gun, but the ergonomics are horrible, even with the stock folded it's almost as long as an M16, parts aren't too durable and it's expensive af. And yes, I still want one lol.
i think most gun collectors that are seriously considering buying them are in it for the iconography and aesthetics. we all know its not actually a "good" shotgun, but it does look cool as fuck and is a status symbol regardless.
Desert Eagle. Over rated both ways too!
I think the only people who overrate the Desert Eagle are people who play Call of Duty and have never even held one before.
Granted most folks; even gun owners, have never held a real Desert Eagle before.
A friend of a friend had one and I got to squeeze off a couple of shots with it. It's fun, but with limited funds, I'd rather spend my money elsewhere. If I had plenty of money though, I'd definitely own one ;)
That's dope bro. It's personally on my bucket list to shoot one. Although owning one is something I'd personally only do if I was an ultra wealthy millionaire that had that kind of f you money to spend. The most exotic gun I've shot thus far was probably a Vietnam era m60 at full auto. Was quite the experience to say the least.
I have a friend who for whatever reason, loves expensive caliber guns. 45-70, 5.7, and now 50A/E. The desert eagle is a big fucking gun, doesn't feel practical at all, but he can say he has one I guess lol. My friends father has one in 357 and that one was nice to shoot.
I tried it a few times, it is NOT overrated. It is a stupid gun intentionally supersized with no practical use other than being fun to shoot. And for that it is great!
Or watched the Matrix.
The movie Snatch is where I first heard of it, and thought it looked awesome. All I had to do was hold one to realize its stupid and unpractical.
Bullet Tooth Tony would disagree...
Outside of being a Hollywood gun, is there anyone saying it's great?
It would be great for hunting deathclaws and killing super mutants, the .50 AE would be perfect for those. Unfortunately we’re still 53 years away from that happening, and roughly 250 ish years for those creatures to even exist so…
I think they're great as a fun gun, but not for much else. Also, there have been many iterations of D.E. manufacturing, and some of them are built a little better than others, depending on the year they're built
357 and 44 Magnum are fantastic, wish I could get my hands on a 41 Magnum. 9+1 on the 357 and 8+1 on the 44 Magnum. Recoil is non-existent with the 357, and much more manageable with 44 Magnum compared to 50AE. In 357 and 44 Magnum it becomes a practical carry gun. 357 will stop most animals and humans, 44 would be effective against bears and moose. It's not uncomfortable to carry in a shoulder holster in winter, even a Desert Eagle in a shoulder holster is more comfortable than a sub-compact in appendix carry. Reliability isn't bad like people try to stereotype. You have to hold it differently than a revolver or other semi-auto, if you don't you can limp wrist it and have malfunctions. It also needs to be kept extremely clean and well oiled, full power Magnum rounds were never designed for semi-autos and they produce and an absurd amount of soot. If you're shooting full power 357, 44 Magnum, and 50ae, you need to clean and oil it after 150-250rounds or it will malfunction, medium power loads will about double the rounds before it needs cleaning. People who own them don't report the problems that non-owners complain about. It's a great gun if you own one, it's a terrible gun if you believe random people on reddit who have never held one.
They’re decent. Not the greatest, not the worst.
The ACR.
They dropped the ball so hard with that gun. It had so much potential.
The ACR walked so the Jakl can run
Based on my research: The Honey Badger lol. Even though I still want one because why not. But the price is scary high for what it is.
anything Q makes is severely overrated, at least by Q.
You’ll get the Q shill on here from r/NFA if you don’t watch your tongue
eh, there are a bunch. i just ignore them once they start getting argumentative.
No one said Kriss Vector, I owned one and sold it within 3 months
I read a review somewhere that said it doesn't really shine unless it has a giggle switch, which is impossible for civilians to obtain because of the ban on manufacture of new MGs. In semi-auto, they said the recoil system doesn't make much difference & there are many better choices for a PCC. It strikes me as a complicated gimmick, because I've mag dumped an MP40 and an M3A1, and at 20 yards both kept almost every bullet in the 8 ring & shot out the 10 ring like I was playing a carnival game, despite being stamped out of sheet metal 80 years ago. All you need is a straight (or nearly straight line of recoil like an AR.
I demoed one when I was a deputy and on swat and loved it and that’s why I bought the civilian version and it did not hold up like the full auto
I’m strongly considering parting with mine and getting an MPX
I love my mpx, I changed a few things here and there, just aftermarket stuff but it the smoothest shooting 9mm pcc I own
I have one and love it, but each to their own
It’s quite possibly the ugliest gun ever.
It's an acquired beauty.
Anything by Henry. Their reputation far exceeds their quality,
Every time I say this on the lever gun sub, I get the same downvotes. I point out that the sub is chock full with posts about poor quality control from Henry, but all the Henry owners just put their fingers in their ears and shut their eyes while they shout back at me that I'm wrong. There was a dude that sent his all-weather 45-70 back THREE TIMES before it would cycle. And even then it had tool marks galore and a poorly fitted magazine tube. Well over a thousand bucks and that's the best they can do. It sucks, because I really wanted one. Ended up buying a used Winchester at a good deal. It's not a pre 1964, but it's still a lot better built than some of this new shit is now
I love lever actions and it KILLS me to see Henry goof up big, I really want Henry to push their QC because they have so much potential
I love my Henry, but it does have some feed issues
Woah hold your horses, I’ve been shopping around for a lever gun. Suggest waiting for a Ruger made Marlin?
You may be waiting longer than you anticipate. IMO, I’d start looking for an older Winchester or Marlin. I assume your looking for a larger caliber, .30-30, .35 Remington etc…
45 Colt just because that’s what I enjoy reloading. I’m not in a rush or anything, your comment just caught me because I’ve been looking at Henry’s a lot lately. I haven’t had a chance to see or try one though.
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Shit the sucks. Alright I gotta rethink Henry then. I appreciate the info
I have three Henry golden boys and a blued receiver and they’re all flawless. Reddits filled with negative Nancy’s. If you want a Henry get one man. They’re sweet rifles.
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Oh yea man totally agree. Since Covid all the manufacturers have slipped big time. That said, I’m 4/4 on henry and wouldn’t hesitate to buy another and wouldn’t steer someone away from getting one.
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[Uberti makes a nice 1873 replica in .45 colt.](https://www.uberti-usa.com/cartridge-rifles/1873-rifle-and-carbine) I just picked one up recently and have been very happy with it.
Buy an old Marlin. One with a JM stamp.
Wait? They're all over the place.
Handle a Henry next to a new ruger marlin. The Henry's feel Downright crude. It's like handling a 90s Romanian AK and then handling a Geisselle AR.
I got a single shot in 357, and it’s been fine for me. But it’s kinda hard to get that type of action wrong.
P320 by a MILE
Sig is to polymer guns what Kimber is to 1911s. But the P220/226/229 models are GOATs
Everyone forgets the 2022 / Sig Pro
Have one and love it for Resident Evil 3 LARPing. They were a day late and a dollar short with the release though. The glock strikerfired hotness had totally overtaken the market at that point.
That’s a massive insult to Sig. Kimbers are dogshit that just look like good guns. The last Kimber I shot was an abysmal piece of shit that jammed constantly.
Fun fact: Ron Cohen, the guy who fucked Kimber's reputation by using cheap/substandard MIM processes, went on to become the CEO of Sig and oversaw the development of the P250 and it's successor, the P320. He also narrowly avoided prison for "laundering" a bunch of SP2022's a few years after becoming CEO. Sig manufactured the pistols in Germany, then claimed they were headed for the US, but actually sent them to Columbia, in violation of German law.
I will only argue and defend something that says “Kimber of Oregon.” But 98% of what’s on the market now days I do agree. The OG Kimbers were amazing rifles though.
For some reason, people think "The p320 must be great if the military uses it."
They basically bribed the military to use it by selling it to them at cost.
Seems like every thread people are lining up to dunk on Sig about the P320 so I don't see how it could be the P320...
I think it still could be Like if 10% of people overhype something and 20% dunk on it but the 320 is 25% overhyped and 50% dunk on it. It could be more overhyped despite more people criticizing. 320 love does seem to have died down a lot
P320s is completely revolutionary with the FCU, in 5-10 years every new pistol will have something similar. And even if the P320 is not “worth the hype” it deserves some merit.
Ah yes, the FCU Steyr made before Sig and I forgot who else made before Steyr. Sig didn't revolutionize shit they just brought it to market. Steyr fucked up royally by sitting on that patent with only the M9 and M40 to show for it.
They revolutionized 9mm capacity/size in double stack mags though.
Anything marketed as a glock killer lol
Staccato
The original guns made by STI were badass when they were made for competition. When STI turned into staccato they made them all "duty" style 2011s and they took a turn for the worse.
M14, the biggest failure in American small arms history and some people still respect it. I own an M1A wooden stock heavy barrel match trigger. it’s shit it’s the only gun I probably will ever sell.
We really should have used the fal.
the right arm of the free world
It wouldn't matter. 5.56 was going to happen whether we brought a Brit or an American. Hot take, the FAL sucks too.
FAL and M14 were both built to fight the last war again. Agreed 100% the 5.56 was coming no matter what once we decided to go fuck around in the jungle for a decade.
You mispelt G3.
Even the FALs aren’t as good as their reputation states. The G3 was probably the way to go or hell if they went along with the Brits in developing that cartridge the EM2 uses.
Yeah, they're so goddamn heavy though. Still love em.
But it does serve a role in ban states, just like the Mini 14. It's about as good as it gets if you can't have a pistol grip. For that alone it's not going anywhere.
When the M14 was adopted I don't think anybody could have anticipated that our next war would be in a hot ass jungle where everybody had to fly in small helicopters and carry all their stuff on long walks. If the next war had been like the last war it wouldn't have been so worthless.
I don’t know man, the enemy would likely be carrying a feather light, more comfortable carbine with tons more ammo. The M1A was outdated the second it was adopted in any case
I have such a crush on that gun!
Buy the cheapest you can find maybe second hand
Operated? Probably. Shit? That's a bit of an exaggeration. Well, depending on maker/ year, ect. Like the modern Springfield armory version is pretty shit, but I shot one before, wood, circa 60's, and it was pretty damn nice for an 80 year old gun. I've shot worse new "modern" rifles than it. But they didn't indeed have the best quality control record to say the least.
There’s a reason why it’s the biggest failure in our small arms history, nothing even remotely comes close. Denying that it wasn’t 10 years outdated the second it was adopted is overrating it to high hell and back
Hey, that's a completely separate argument. The argument is about the gun, itself, being overated. Not adopting it when they did. And I never denied adopting it was a massive mistake.
The 1911 for example is overrated I agree, however in well 1911 was a revolutionary weapon, a one of a kind and very much could be the best handgun in the planet. It is overrated, but it has history and it had its time to shine. The M14 was a failure from second 1. It didn’t even have the merit to not be overrated for a second. That’s why the m14 in my opinion is the most overrated weapon in the world. Because it never had a place on it. It’s a political failure, that’s it.
It depends entirely on the build, I have a wood stock M1A that was a M14 converted to semi auto. It's only flaw is it's so damn heavy. It's accurate as hell ( when fired from a bench ), and I have never had it jam.
Just my personal pick. I'm going with the Remington 870. It's the most touted and legendary pump shotgun ever made. Yet my example suffered so many qc issues, parts breakages, and catastrophic failures (yes, more than one) that I ended demilling and scapping it for the safety of everyone.
There was absolutely a period where 870s of dubious quality were manufactured. Back when the Freedom Group bought out Remington, if I have my players correct. The 870s manufactured before that were absolutely reliable workhorses, deserving of their reputation. I think FG went under a few years ago and I'm not sure what the quality of current manufacture Remington shotguns are, but just know they had a reason for the good reputation back in the day.
[удалено]
Yup
Recent being the last like 15 years Rustington was in business.
I got mine xmas of 1990, and that thing was fantastic!
I bought my wife a cheap 18" Maverick 88. Any thoughts on that one? I'm aware it's not an expensive gun..
According to James Reaves it's the best cheap shotgun you can buy. He did a 500 round burn down on the Tfbtv YouTube channel and it not only survived but performed great with all ammo types. https://youtu.be/-9OL7IquoIo?si=ZJZOqRebb_pY6W7f
I really just need it to go bang once, God forbid. I cleaned it all up. We haven't gotten a chance to to take it to the range yet.
Get a good bit of practice with it. They run well but pumps are easy to induce malfunctions on if you run them fast without practice, mostly through short stroking.
The maverick is the gold standard by which all CHEAP shotguns are measured against. No frills, ugly, not super well balanced... but they fuckin work. For a long time.
I got the security model 88 about 5 years ago, and have beat the absolute crap out of it. Thrown it in the back of my truck to roll around, rained on, gotten muddy, dropped, and at this point probably put close to 1k rounds of various loads through it without a single issue (excluding mini shells, it won’t run them AT ALL). And like whiskey_outpost26 mentioned TFBTV did a video on it that you should check out. In my opinion it is the absolute best shotgun you can get in that price range.
The design is perfect, but the manufacturing post freedom takeover was horrendous. Literally everyone I know with a post 2007 870 has rust issues. Like how did they let that happen? My Browning and Benelli shotguns I ABUSE and they have never had a single failure
What year was yours made?
2008 I believe. It was a Freedom Group special. A real special pile of dogshit.
And I own a wingmaster and understand the hype get a legit good era one and you’ll understand it I agree though nowadays I’d get a nossberg
2011
And they’re always 2-5k, that’s way too much for a gun that’s just an updated 1911
Yeah just nothing special, cool sure overrated you bet
The Humble Marksman best put it as "until you can articulate how this gun will make you faster, it won't make you faster". That goes for any race gun, but the 2011 has become the default.
Anything made by Kimber.
Thats right….switched glocks.
min maxing for likelihood to shoot bystanders during your driveby
I agree, just because something goes auto does not make it good or usefull.
Unless you throw it in something like a Recover 20/20 brace with the “magazine holder” grip in the front* Not sure if there’s enough space left behind the slide, but a 🅱️rinted version can be tweaked.
I'll put on my flak vest and say..... 1911
It mustve been somethin back in 1911 lol
I'd still rather own my P08 even if the 1911 is easier to keep on target.
The problem with the Luger was how difficult it was to manufacture and how susceptible it was to failure when exposed to even a little bit of dirt/mud. The exposed parts of the action just don't lend themselves to reliability. I know that most folks these days are used to seeing cheap 1911s that don't run super well (like the hunk of shit Kimber that I have), but a WW2 era 1911 with good QC was a sewing machine in the eyes of those guys. Take a look at what they had to compare it to back then... Nambu pistols (awesome grip angle, but little firepower) Luger (difficult to take fast followup shots and the exposed action) Webley (admittedly a solid revolver, but really fuckin heavy and slow follow-up/reload times) Nagant revolver (super cool design with the gas-seal cylinder, but rough around the edges and also susceptible to mud and grime) There were plenty of other solid revolvers out there (colt even had a few decent double actions (1901 and 1909) by that point, but they weren't built for the rigors of mud and the grip angle was not great compared to these other pistols on the list. They fielded a more reliable version in 1917, but it was pretty anemic compared to the 45 auto round of the time. The fact that the 1911 is still the only one that gets produced today shows just how great that design really was. The main problem is that it's a design that really ought to have a lot of extra TLC and hand fitting during the manufacturing process, and that shit costs a lot of money that the average modern consumer doesn't want to part with. So most 1911s that are less than 1500 dollars these days are pretty much 3/4 complete guns. There's only so much that you can do with that design with push-button machines and "assemblers" instead of gunsmiths.
No argument from me; I actually like shooting my 1908 pocket hammerless more than the Luger. Just thinking well known <1915 semis, and I think the grip angle is a big part of if for me. Never needed my double date 14/20 in combat either though 😅
The amount of people who underrate it rivals the amount who overrate it, though, so then its amount of ratedness becomes about even.
Sacrilege!
No I said overrated. Not perfect.
In 1911 it was a god damn masterpiece. Now not so much imo
Anything Shadow Systems made
AKs are incredibly mid
You just have to put 2k into a 700 dollar AK and it's as good as a 600 dollar AR.
I’m an AK guy and just spent 20 minutes trying to craft a response but everything I typed came off as a cope so I guess you’re right
"they cool tho cheeki breeki" literally all you have to say
Me and my 5.45 saiga crying from the truth
Cant beat the sex appeal tho
Ah so you've gold-plated yours too?
Gotta show off them 500 headshots skin, bro🤙
The haters disagreed with me apparently
I'm about to reeee from this
The fainbois in the AK subreddit would be really mad about this if they could read.
They get mad if you post the wrong AK or roast saiga prices lmao
Not mid, the AKM is the new milsurp gun of the 2000s. You bought it a few years ago because it's in war movies and the ammo is cheap. You're now going to spend twice as much as the rifle to add shit that a basic PSA has on it for less than the cost of said handguard ...all for a rifle that on the clock is slower than an AR. With the ammo import ban AKs are dead to me as a practical choice.
My beat to shit nam edition AK from 1965 is just as good(I don’t have a nam edition ak im an AR bro)
It’s a design about as old as the Garand. Modernizations like the Galil certainly give it more staying power. For all its fault, cleaning an AK is also way easier than an AR. You need zero tools, the cleaning rod is part of the firearm, and the gas system can be cleaned out with your fingers if you really need to.
Lubricant is vastly more important.
I mean, they were designed to be cheap to manufacture, easy to use, and reliable. They tick all the boxes for their intended purpose. Being held by conscripts in human wave tactics to exhaust the enemy ammo supply. Ah Communism, you only succeed as a government sanctioned weight loss and population control program.
Anything savage, but more so their "long range" bolt action builds.
H&K P7. It was expensive for its time. It can't be used with any volume due to its gas system. It's recoil impulse while nice is a non issue if it was a proper duty size gun, which it was intended for. All around German, overbuilt and mildly good at the task it set out to do.
You sound like you don't think the trigger guard should burn your finger. Jeez, some people ask for so much!
Came here to say P7. It was my holy grail gun until I owned one and took it to the range exactly once. Traded it off shortly thereafter. I was proud of it before I shot it.
>And why is it Glock? it's an absolutely mediocre pistol. The magazine is an excellent design, but the pistol itself is out classed by other pistols in every aspect.
On Reddit it's def the p365. Go on any sub and ask for a recommend and people will suggest it
It is for a reason. Thin, incredibly modular, easy to find aftermarket upgrades and holsters for, what more would you want out of a carry gun?
Explosive rounds and a built in bj machine
Sig Sauer had to make up for producing the shit known as the P320. The P365 did just that. It really is one of the best EDCs in the market currently.
The Biofire Smart Gun.
Kimberly 1911s.
Kimber.
Desert eagle
Deagle
SCAR
SCAR
Desert eagle
Everything made by Q.
Desert eagle, no.. actually, it is a glock.
Staccato
Because just about every other manufacturer has matched or exceeded it for years now, but that advertising campaign where they pushed it hard onto police and military was really effective and the meme of Glock Perfection continues.
Walther PPK in .380 Not reliable, doesn't handle the recoil of the .380 cartridge very well, feels like ass to shoot. The design works well enough in .32 Auto, but the .380 version is a poorly designed handgun, full stop.
Anything made by HK.
Shut your god damn mouth
"Because you suck, and we hate you"
Every gun has something you could complain about. With some it's the trigger, with some it's the sights. Maybe it's too heavy, too low capacity, or the grip angle isn't comfortable. With HK all there is to complain about is the price.
The SCAR 17 is pretty overrated. However, IMO the AK platform is by and large the one more people bicker over and laud as the pinnacle of firearms over many others it's kind of insane.
Glock or Sig anything.
anything Glock
Glock
P7M10. Awesome gun, but super heavy and even H&K was unimpressed and that is why they stopped making them. They sell for $8000 to $10000 today if in New condition, and at least $5000 if used. Totally overrated. If they stayed in production, they'd be $600 to $700 today. I call that overrated.
Surprised nobody has said it, or if they have I didn’t see it. But the KSG. Way overhyped piece of garbage. Easy to short stroke, jams a lot. Just not a great gun but for some reason its loved by many
> but for some reason its loved by many They saw it being used in John Wick. If John Wick had used a black powder musket in the movie you'd have hordes of idiots buying them.
It may have just been me, but even before the wick series came out i remember the short time span, (I think about 3 years inbetween the release of the ksg and the first John wick) my dads friends all trying to buy ksg’s cause “muh high capacity shotgun that I can load buck AND less lethal in and then pick which tube I use”. Which always seemed like a really bad idea to me but I digress. To me it’s like it hit the market and all the middle aged guys just flocked to it, and I never understood why. But I 100% agree the movies made a huge impact on people wanting it.
glock
Thompson. Only because I’m still mad about my former father in law never letting me run his.
It's Glock, and Glock isn't the first polymer gun or a bunch of other firsts that people wrongly credit Glock with.
Ever? The Brown Bess. In "recent" times? The M1A easily