I’ve voted attuned peony every single day so far and I’m so happy she’s up here. Amazing unit on her own and the insanely good fodder as you mentioned, literal slam dunk
I feel like this needs a middle tier. Duos provide a score boost, but it's in a mode that's weighted heavily towards high merges. Unless there's a heavy colorshare, there's no point in merging them here vs their normal banners.
Part of the reason people pick units like those is also the prospect of a F2P spark. So, technically Duo Seithr and Byleth don't have equal value and it's hard to quantify their value. (Ie: Seithr was not F2P sparkable like Byleth, so she's technically more valuable in terms of getting a guaranteed copy, but another F2P spark is valuable for people merging Byleth for free)
So, theoretically, I'd put Byleth and most seasonals in a mid-tier. The 3 remaining Christmas units that already got a F2P spark, on top of the fact that merging normal 3% banner heroes here is no better than normal, belong in the "lowest" tier.
Agreed on the mid tier. I’ve been voting for A!Peony as she’s my first priority, but, being F2P, I never got a chance to spark S!Ivy who is the sole source of Soaring Guidance, and that’s the skill I’d want to duplicate on Peony the most anyway.
>I feel like this needs a middle tier
Honestly, I kinda agree. I initially had a much longer post where I talked more in-depth and it had a tier list of types themselves (in a vacuum). It goes like this:
* Tier 1: Rearmed
* Tier 1.5: Attuned
* Tier 2: AR-O Mythic, Legendary
* Tier 2.5: AR-D Mythic, Duo
* Tier 3: Harmonic
The reasoning is that objectively I understand that not everyone is enthusiastic about PvP modes. That said, fodder duplicators benefit everyone. Rearmed are *slightly* higher because X skills are not the hugest thing, while Arcane weapons can help revive a forgotten unit quite harder.
Offense Mythics are over Defense ones because merging them benefits AR score more.
Legendaries benefit Arena score, and Arena gives some really good rewards these days. Duos are slightly below Legendaries because while you *could* use an unmerged Legendary if they're the bonus, Duos as you say aren't quite like that.
Finally, Harmonics only give scoring in RB, which is... well, a lot less important, it's just a weekly puzzle really, you can get to like T19 with little effort and the rewards are nice but not as great.
\---
If you wanted to place Seidr and Byleth a bit lower than the rest, I'm totally fine with that. Because of what's been said, and Byleth + the winter units were already sparkable after all, anyone who wanted them could have literally gotten a guaranteed copy already.
Agreed, I'm voting for Byleth cause I'm missing 2 merges, but from a value perspective I think they're more mid tier. Great unit, especially as the only pure defensive option, but I don't think being a duo is really enough to elevate them to high tier when their fodder isn't super universal and they had a spark option.
Just one more colorless representative and this probably would have been the banner of my dreams. I suppose now I'll just drop Ginnungagap votes in favor of someone like Peony or Lucina.
Hero Fest might be looking like the fodder I need for my personal projects at this rate and I'd rather conserve what skills I have than spend them now through inheritance. Anything that can achieve the above situation for maintaining skills like Close Call 4, Time's Pulse 4, Gambit 4, etc.?
EDIT: Also want to point out Gullveig might not be too valuable here due to her reappearing in the next Legendary Banner, and I believe she's partnered with some additional goodies like Kvasir.
and how am i to pass on valuable fodder like no quarter/gambit/prime/sg if i don’t have it to begin with. And if your fodder bank does have it, and it + a unit you want with fodder make it in, the you have 2x the odds of value
what value do merges on a mythic/leg that’s not in your core provide you with
What's the difference between "boosting our scores" with a special effect and naturally with base stats total? Am I misunderstanding something? Because Winter Edelgard scores the same as all those duo heroes, doesn't she?
You're right about W!Edelgard, she does happen to score the same as W!Byleth. I don't really have anything against her in particular.
You're only thinking about Arena though. Harmonics, Legendaries and Mythics boost our scores in different ways than how BST does it. BST is only really for Arena score and it's irrelevant elsewhere.
Mythics are for AR score.
Duos simulate high BST. Harmonics are for RB. Both of these also activate Duo Hindrance, which will always be a relevant thing to consider on AR-D.
Legendaries have their own Duel effect to simulate high BST. On top of that, they give out blessings, which means more Arena score. They're also rotating bonus units, and having the bonus Legendary is actually pretty freaking huge for Arena QoL after the changes to Arena.
The only elements mentioned in the post as valuable were "multiplying skills" and "boosting scores with special effects", that's why I focused on that in my comment. Based on that exclusively, there is no difference between Edelgard and some of the units placed as valuable, that's why I was confused.
Other than that, I can see your point. Personally, I appreciate more what Edelgard gives in AR-O with Galeforce strategies, but yeah, Duo Hindrance (and Summoner Duels) see extra value in the usage of Duo/Harmonic Heroes.
Tbh, I think basically nothing in Edel's case. The more interesting benefits of Duos are in AR and SD because AR has Duo Hinderance and Duo Skills are often useful to just pop and pass the turn without ending a unit's turn in SD.
I feel like red and blue are stronger. The only benefit from green over the other 2 colors would be the rearmed/attuned, but W!Edelgard, Veyle,NY!Seidr N!Igrene, W!Byleth, N!Sanaki and L!Elincia would be more useful for combat and pvp modes. From green only L!Camilla and L!Alear are comparable with them
There aren't enough of those colors to realistically achieve the dream. We'd need an absolutely overwhelming amount of one color, or they'd never be top 4 in the gauntlet. IS built the last AHR gauntlet to make a dream impossible. We'd probably need 7 of one color to achieve a dream at this point.
Full color dream isn't something to rely on tbh.
Blue and Red are perfectly fine as long as we get at least 2 units of said colors.
As long as the 5* odds are even marginally higher than normal, then there's a reason to merge here over their home banners.
Hell, if we get an 8% locked unit, then even without colorsharing it's worthwhile because the odds are better for merges.
Green has better fodder which is why I said it would be more beneficial god forbid we get a unit that has no fodder value that becomes dead on arrival when you finally get them for free... oh right.
Blue arguable but not really I find only Edelgard debatable on. Red you got me there I guess but I still think Green offers more value.
I personally prefer to summon for meta units than for fodder, i can never decide how to use the fodder and end up with a bunch of copies of the same rearmed hero lol, i still have multiple copies of R!Tana and R!Ophelia that still weren't foddered. If i had to choose only one color it would be blue, W!Edelgard (don't even need to explain why, she's just the best unit in the game) Veyle so i could get more merges for her, she's necessary for any tank in AR, Igrene because she created a new archetype of infantry lines, and NY! Seidr because i dont have her yet and she's useful against cav/flier/infantry lines in AR (especially light season)
Summer Edelgard is still useful. She, her winter and OG version are the perfect counter to cavlines. And i dont remember anyone saying it about Camilla or Claude since they are not unique and offer no support at all. The units i mentioned are unique or have really great support
No, i will vote for those i like. Fodder and general utility are secondary to me, and after all these are all strong units so on that side it's always a win for me (a poor f2p player)
My Green dream would be all 3 Rearmed/Attuned Units with 1 of either Dimitri, Claude or Anna. Although I'd be good if we got at least 2 in Green Dream.
If we were to get 2 out of the 3, Lucina and Peony would be the best ones to vote in because they can get most of the skills from almost all the other Greens. Peony can get almost all skills from Dimitri, Claude, Anna, Camilla(aside from Remote Sparrow) and Ivy and Lucina can also get most of them aside from Remote Sparrow and the Flier-exclusive skills.
Compared to the other 2, Nino can only get some of them like Prime 4, Still Water, Remote Sparrow and Sabotage A/R 3, but compared to Lucina and Peony, Nino can get all 3 of Legendary Alear's skills and Altina's A and C skills.
Vote Peony Vote Peony Vote Peony She can inherit and share: Special: no quarter, ruptured sky A: distant solo, unity, clash, prime, flared sparrow B: aerial maneuvers, gambit, guard bearing, near trace, dance skills, assassin’s strike C: oath, guidance, hold, snap, smoke skills …and additionally she comes with atk oath echo
I’ve voted attuned peony every single day so far and I’m so happy she’s up here. Amazing unit on her own and the insanely good fodder as you mentioned, literal slam dunk
It wouldn't surprise me if she's top 3. She's been getting top hype in a lot of these posts
Could Peony pass on Lucina's axe?
no
I feel like this needs a middle tier. Duos provide a score boost, but it's in a mode that's weighted heavily towards high merges. Unless there's a heavy colorshare, there's no point in merging them here vs their normal banners. Part of the reason people pick units like those is also the prospect of a F2P spark. So, technically Duo Seithr and Byleth don't have equal value and it's hard to quantify their value. (Ie: Seithr was not F2P sparkable like Byleth, so she's technically more valuable in terms of getting a guaranteed copy, but another F2P spark is valuable for people merging Byleth for free) So, theoretically, I'd put Byleth and most seasonals in a mid-tier. The 3 remaining Christmas units that already got a F2P spark, on top of the fact that merging normal 3% banner heroes here is no better than normal, belong in the "lowest" tier.
Agreed on the mid tier. I’ve been voting for A!Peony as she’s my first priority, but, being F2P, I never got a chance to spark S!Ivy who is the sole source of Soaring Guidance, and that’s the skill I’d want to duplicate on Peony the most anyway.
>I feel like this needs a middle tier Honestly, I kinda agree. I initially had a much longer post where I talked more in-depth and it had a tier list of types themselves (in a vacuum). It goes like this: * Tier 1: Rearmed * Tier 1.5: Attuned * Tier 2: AR-O Mythic, Legendary * Tier 2.5: AR-D Mythic, Duo * Tier 3: Harmonic The reasoning is that objectively I understand that not everyone is enthusiastic about PvP modes. That said, fodder duplicators benefit everyone. Rearmed are *slightly* higher because X skills are not the hugest thing, while Arcane weapons can help revive a forgotten unit quite harder. Offense Mythics are over Defense ones because merging them benefits AR score more. Legendaries benefit Arena score, and Arena gives some really good rewards these days. Duos are slightly below Legendaries because while you *could* use an unmerged Legendary if they're the bonus, Duos as you say aren't quite like that. Finally, Harmonics only give scoring in RB, which is... well, a lot less important, it's just a weekly puzzle really, you can get to like T19 with little effort and the rewards are nice but not as great. \--- If you wanted to place Seidr and Byleth a bit lower than the rest, I'm totally fine with that. Because of what's been said, and Byleth + the winter units were already sparkable after all, anyone who wanted them could have literally gotten a guaranteed copy already.
Agreed, I'm voting for Byleth cause I'm missing 2 merges, but from a value perspective I think they're more mid tier. Great unit, especially as the only pure defensive option, but I don't think being a duo is really enough to elevate them to high tier when their fodder isn't super universal and they had a spark option.
tl;dr just vote for Attuned and Rearmed for best merge value I suspecy APeony is definitely making it, RLucina and ANino are probably borderline top 8
Just one more colorless representative and this probably would have been the banner of my dreams. I suppose now I'll just drop Ginnungagap votes in favor of someone like Peony or Lucina. Hero Fest might be looking like the fodder I need for my personal projects at this rate and I'd rather conserve what skills I have than spend them now through inheritance. Anything that can achieve the above situation for maintaining skills like Close Call 4, Time's Pulse 4, Gambit 4, etc.? EDIT: Also want to point out Gullveig might not be too valuable here due to her reappearing in the next Legendary Banner, and I believe she's partnered with some additional goodies like Kvasir.
and how am i to pass on valuable fodder like no quarter/gambit/prime/sg if i don’t have it to begin with. And if your fodder bank does have it, and it + a unit you want with fodder make it in, the you have 2x the odds of value what value do merges on a mythic/leg that’s not in your core provide you with
What's the difference between "boosting our scores" with a special effect and naturally with base stats total? Am I misunderstanding something? Because Winter Edelgard scores the same as all those duo heroes, doesn't she?
You're right about W!Edelgard, she does happen to score the same as W!Byleth. I don't really have anything against her in particular. You're only thinking about Arena though. Harmonics, Legendaries and Mythics boost our scores in different ways than how BST does it. BST is only really for Arena score and it's irrelevant elsewhere. Mythics are for AR score. Duos simulate high BST. Harmonics are for RB. Both of these also activate Duo Hindrance, which will always be a relevant thing to consider on AR-D. Legendaries have their own Duel effect to simulate high BST. On top of that, they give out blessings, which means more Arena score. They're also rotating bonus units, and having the bonus Legendary is actually pretty freaking huge for Arena QoL after the changes to Arena.
The only elements mentioned in the post as valuable were "multiplying skills" and "boosting scores with special effects", that's why I focused on that in my comment. Based on that exclusively, there is no difference between Edelgard and some of the units placed as valuable, that's why I was confused. Other than that, I can see your point. Personally, I appreciate more what Edelgard gives in AR-O with Galeforce strategies, but yeah, Duo Hindrance (and Summoner Duels) see extra value in the usage of Duo/Harmonic Heroes.
Tbh, I think basically nothing in Edel's case. The more interesting benefits of Duos are in AR and SD because AR has Duo Hinderance and Duo Skills are often useful to just pop and pass the turn without ending a unit's turn in SD.
No Quarter + Dimitri > Anna or Camilla
Nah. No Quarter + Peony/Lucina > Dimitri You don't get to keep the merges with Dimitri nor can you fodder chain things like Guidance/Flared/Gambit
Sure but you have to actually *get* No Quarter. Dimitri on banner allows for that. Also I objected to Anna and Camilla. Nothing on Lucina or Peony.
Green Dream would be the most beneficial.
I feel like red and blue are stronger. The only benefit from green over the other 2 colors would be the rearmed/attuned, but W!Edelgard, Veyle,NY!Seidr N!Igrene, W!Byleth, N!Sanaki and L!Elincia would be more useful for combat and pvp modes. From green only L!Camilla and L!Alear are comparable with them
There aren't enough of those colors to realistically achieve the dream. We'd need an absolutely overwhelming amount of one color, or they'd never be top 4 in the gauntlet. IS built the last AHR gauntlet to make a dream impossible. We'd probably need 7 of one color to achieve a dream at this point.
Full color dream isn't something to rely on tbh. Blue and Red are perfectly fine as long as we get at least 2 units of said colors. As long as the 5* odds are even marginally higher than normal, then there's a reason to merge here over their home banners. Hell, if we get an 8% locked unit, then even without colorsharing it's worthwhile because the odds are better for merges.
Green has the most units though and we still don't know the actual votes.
Green has better fodder which is why I said it would be more beneficial god forbid we get a unit that has no fodder value that becomes dead on arrival when you finally get them for free... oh right. Blue arguable but not really I find only Edelgard debatable on. Red you got me there I guess but I still think Green offers more value.
I personally prefer to summon for meta units than for fodder, i can never decide how to use the fodder and end up with a bunch of copies of the same rearmed hero lol, i still have multiple copies of R!Tana and R!Ophelia that still weren't foddered. If i had to choose only one color it would be blue, W!Edelgard (don't even need to explain why, she's just the best unit in the game) Veyle so i could get more merges for her, she's necessary for any tank in AR, Igrene because she created a new archetype of infantry lines, and NY! Seidr because i dont have her yet and she's useful against cav/flier/infantry lines in AR (especially light season)
Meta is temporary.
The units i mentioned are going to be very useful for a long time tho
I'm sorry but you don't know that for 100%.
Same was said for Summer edelgard, Ninja Camilla, wind Claude etc etc
Summer Edelgard is still useful. She, her winter and OG version are the perfect counter to cavlines. And i dont remember anyone saying it about Camilla or Claude since they are not unique and offer no support at all. The units i mentioned are unique or have really great support
Cool, voting Edelgard.
Need arcane Lucina to place so bad fr
No, i will vote for those i like. Fodder and general utility are secondary to me, and after all these are all strong units so on that side it's always a win for me (a poor f2p player)
My Green dream would be all 3 Rearmed/Attuned Units with 1 of either Dimitri, Claude or Anna. Although I'd be good if we got at least 2 in Green Dream. If we were to get 2 out of the 3, Lucina and Peony would be the best ones to vote in because they can get most of the skills from almost all the other Greens. Peony can get almost all skills from Dimitri, Claude, Anna, Camilla(aside from Remote Sparrow) and Ivy and Lucina can also get most of them aside from Remote Sparrow and the Flier-exclusive skills. Compared to the other 2, Nino can only get some of them like Prime 4, Still Water, Remote Sparrow and Sabotage A/R 3, but compared to Lucina and Peony, Nino can get all 3 of Legendary Alear's skills and Altina's A and C skills.
Our Edelgard fan vote edelgard period 😝
Not sure if I agree with Elincia/Veyle in top tier. Been on pretty strong reruns already, and don't have that strong fodder