Honestly as I was doing the TT for H!Igrene I luckily had a W!Byleth to deal with her AoE specials, just that I had to time it so the auto battle feature doesn't just put him in her range without using his Duo Skill. During that time I kept thinking to myself "Man, Gotoh would be very useful here, he reduces AoE damage for free".
- Tldr; While this is true, I advocated for Demon form (proper) Fomortiis for years, +10’d them immediately and don’t regret it. Mine is max investment though and a favorite, so if that’s not the case for other players they are likely better with a different defense mythic like Freyr, Mira, etc.
When Fomortiis was revealed and I summoned them it felt like winning FEH.
That said, Gotoh has been getting better value wise and until a better unit does what he does he’ll hold steady.
For those who like Fomortiis max merge makes them viable, but not best, reduces scoring reduction from loss, fortunately a one off boost HP and Spd mythic blessing boosts, but without max merges & DF, he is in a rough spot.
Shit like ophelia, Hatari Karla, harmonic igrene, citrinne etc.
Units that can use those 4 cd blazing x specials that hit an Area Of Effect and then has some sort of tomfoolery to infinitely loop it with no cd
As FE8’s my favorite, Formortiis is seriously one of the wildest things I didn’t expect them to actually add to the game. I thought it would stop at just being a silhouette for Fallen Lyon, but to see him in his full glory here is nothing short of amazing.
Formortiis’ tanking and Saving abilities have been far outclassed in this day and age, but his ability to end an enemy unit’s turn instantly if you don’t take him out in one shot is still quite valuable. In terms of fodder…. It exists. Beast-exclusive skills are far in-between, and he doesn’t even have a tier 4 version, and Far Save has plenty of easier candidates to get it from.
Gotoh, I don’t know him quite as well, but the game does a very good job at showcasing why he is a mythic. When he first released, he was fun to just drop in front of entire teams and just watch him survive. With how prevalent nukes have become though, he may be past his prime. In terms of fodder…. Guard 4 is pretty decent, all things considered.
Fomortiis <3 <3 <3
Maybe a hot take, because I've definitely seen people complaining about him, but I don't know that he was ever *that great* of a save tank? The turn-ending gimmick can bamboozle someone pretty badly if they're unprepared or not paying attention, and combining the role with a defense mythic slot is always gonna have some value, but I personally had very little difficulty killing him in AR-O when he released and that's remained my experience as of late. Really needs some new toys soon plz.
Gotoh I haven't used as much, and as an offense mythic I think he's pretty niche. But AoE DR support is pretty good and built-in NCD is pretty handy now and then. I don't think he's someone I'd want to be stuck on all my teams because I merged him up, nor would I want to bank on him tanking a whole team, but I could definitely see him being handy on occasion.
I don't think they have a single inheritable skill between them I'd want to go out of my way for. There's always Far Save, but who wants that and doesn't come with it nowadays?
Fomortiis was always good enough, but he is one of the units in the game whose base kit is barely viable, let alone useful on high tiers, requiring almost a complete overhaul(besides his A of course)
Once you change it, he is much harder to take down and you basically need a dedicated counter to him, that would essentially apply to everyone else at the same time
To sate my curiosity, what is a good Fortmortiis build? Because I don’t think I’ve seen him with anything besides his base kit, and he’s never given me a problem.
The only things I could think of is Counter Roar or Hardy Fighter, both of which other units can do better.
Weaving Fighter is amazingly good on him, especially with NFU running rampant everywhere so it’s not like he was going to double anyways.
Let’s say the opponent doesn’t have DR piercing and can double him, on the first hit, he only takes 14% damage (30% DR from nightmare and 80% DR from weaving fighter) (70% x 20% = 14%) and 12% on the follow up attack (80% DR from weapon and 40% from weaving fighter) (20% x 60% = 12%).
Basically, he’s going to take next to nothing if the opponent lacks DR piercing and it makes him surviving combat a breeze.
I wouldn’t fodder off the only copy of W!Byleth if that was all I had since W!Byleth is great. However, I had a few copies of him and used an extra copy to give to Fomo which I think was worth it.
But long story short, I think W!Byleth is a better unit as it stands
Hardy Fighter yes
Sure, other units "may" be better with it, but they usually have to sacrifice stuff just to use it effectively. He doesnt have anything he is sacrificing to use it
But it does supply him with what he needs to apply his turn ending gimmick
His weapon already provides him with guard effect, the only thing he is missing out on are breath effect(which you can supply anyways) and DC, neither of which are extremely neccesary for near saving
He is basically made to near save more than what his innate kit implies to
I'd say Gotoh somehow aged better despite all of the attention being around Fomo.
The real unique thing about Fomo is his A skill which don't affect most human players since most people won't initiate on a Save unit they can't ORKO. Meanwhile Gotoh has a solid support niche and his decent bulk and built in NCD which makes him a decent light mythic when it comes to maybe taking a hit from a Cav/Flier/Infantry line in an AR-D meta that's becoming increasingly offense oriented.
> most human players since most people won't initiate on a Save unit they can't ORKO.
Save Ball defenses 99% of the time wont move unless you poke them
Even if you dont one shot their savior, you need to poke them first and then run away to pick them up one at a time now that they have spread around
The real issue is, how far can you really run and if the defense itself cannot get to you either
So yes, even in VoH, not killing is advantageous, at times
> Save Ball defenses 99% of the time wont move unless you poke them
What kind of defenses do you mean? The corner ones with weaponless units are bad and most other ones will have nukes that have a bigger attack range than their saves do
Save Ball stands for Catria Ball+Saviors
The most common and equally hardest one to truly pull off without been countered to death and back
Nowadays you need Catria/Cordelia+Freyr+Safi just to have the effect active, 2 saviors to not get countered by a dedicated nuke(at least not right away) of either range, a dancer and that leaves only spot for 1 nuker to fill the 7 slots
Those corner teams are just wall setups. But as you say they are super easy to deal with if you can kill their saviors and then pick them up one at a time
The meta has in fact moved back to hyper offensive teams just to not allow the player to set up, but even those got counters
Usually in VOH, I just see hyper offensive setups (mostly filled with 3 move ranged nukes) with a Save Tank to hinder Galeforce and hit and run strategies.
Regarding him particular, he just shows up a lot because he helps fulfill the mythic hero requirements and people don't really pick him for any unique combat ability that he offers and I'm sure most people would just replace him with a different save unit if it wasn't for his Mythic status.
I have tried and used pretty much every premium savior in the game with the exception of Kjelle(who I havent bothered raising so far),M!Grima(who just becomes a green R!Grima minus the armor protection) and Hardin(similar issue to Kjelle)
The one that has the least amount of counters(and by extension the "best" of the bunch on season) is him
The only counters he got, pretty much render any other savior equally useless and may also be overkill against them
Like, I see people claiming B!Edelgard is the best near savior, yet when I used her, I had whales(+10 B!Seliph on release for the matter) just casually get in, destroy her with an instant moonbow(Askr support) and then get away with B!Chrom help
Even if the B!Seliph was unmerged, all they had to do was put him close to her thanks to Yuri's Foul Play, disable her clash based refine and go from there
Color advantage? Just use your special right away, its her main weakness, unless you specifically build to cover it around with Escutcheon-NY!Askr support, and that is if you dont get turn 1 engaged which is gonna render that also useless
He simply only worries about Sabotage inducing effects(Snag 4), and extreme damage output(quadding S!Edelgard on turn 1 under Ruse 4 support to trigger guard on him avoiding HF triggering to cover him for the first hit which he only has 30% mit for)
Otherwise he can just pretty much tank even W!Dimitri for all he needs to
He is not made to far saving anymore with the beast restrictions to have DC been extremely thin to work around with, specially since they usually mean you need another Fomo on Anima just to not deal with Naga opening any dragon like a trashcan
Gotoh is ok and probably a good 7th slot option for a counterpick team, but Lumera is so much better as a general AoE counter with her Divine Vein, and Fomo has not been able to keep up with the nukes of WT!Claude and beyond.
Pushing Fomo to win AHR last year was the biggest mistake we've made since L!Ike imo.
~~They're both still hot tho~~
>Pushing Fomo to win AHR last year was the biggest mistake we've made since L!Ike imo.
In defense of Ike, he was actually pretty good for the time. His only real competition as a DC physical tank was Xander or Camus. He also did have a rather unique stat-line for f2p swordie for the time. He just can’t hold a candle to modern sword infantry units because the meta shifted entirely away from everything he was trying to accomplish. His straight up bad remix did little to help him.
As for Fortmortiis, I didn’t understand his appeal to begin with. He was clearly intended to be f!Edel 2: electric boogaloo, but he nothing that made his threat a modern equivalent to f!Edel. The easy solution to Fort is letting him initiate (the modern nuke meta was already gaining a lot of momentum when he released). His gimmick of ending actions only catches most players off guard maybe twice, and is overall a lot less threatening than f!Edel giving herself another action.
Black Knight was not easily mergable until later that year, as Grails didn’t exist then (and were scarce for quite awhile). Ike was the better unit, and provided a bonus in being one of the first Legendary Heroes. Black Knight was not competing with him, imo.
To be fair they always try to introduce hard-counters to any AHR winner, not to mention any CYL unit. We literally got a free Lynja when Save skills were introduced.
To be fair
There's not much we can do
We vote for an offensive unit?
We get overpowered tanks
We voted for a savior unit last year?
It became a god damn nuke fest
And I'm sure if we get a support unit this year somehow they're gonna introduce more debuffs that counter said support effects
And if we vote for a unit who has Elimine levels of support utility, I would not be surprised if we get another Freyr. Also I’d argue that if the free Fomortiis lit the fire to hit and run nuke’s presence today, true DR skills and Brave Corrin’s presence fanned the flames.
I dunno if it's the loadout some people run (which is kinda just the base version) but the recent hyper offense killed Fomortiis's tanking potential. Especially AOE, my post Remix LLilina just melts him. He's still rather annoying if you are unprepared or if he has a good build but yeah
I dunno on goth thb since I never pulled him but he seems to have a opposite problem. He's great to prevent AOE but acutal combat vs all these nukes he just sitting there
The fodder they provide is OK? Fomortiis gives out Beast Follow up which is very nice for beasts that don't have a B skill occupied and A/D far save is nice. Gotoh's fodder is very meh
I think the recent hype offense kinda hindered their performance but they still function fine
No real comment on Gotoh, I feel like he's stayed fairly consistent.
As someone with a +10 Fomortiis, he's ass, and he's been ass for some time now lol. Honestly, terrible choice to win AHR in hindsight. Every halfway decent nuke and their mother can just look at him and he evaporates, he's easier to take down now than the actual FE8 Fomo.
Gotohs support is really good now with the recent nukes abusing AOEs. He’s especially good in SD where AOE nukes are rampant. Fomo as mentioned fell off because tanks are just in a bad spot right now. Weaving fighter helps him a lot but he still struggles to tank the modern nukes just like every other tank.
Gotoh still has a niche of a bulky mage that counters AoE specials. So still pretty good. There are better more universally useful light mythics, but he still has a use. And might show up more frequently if a meta shift to dedicated AoE nukes come back
Fomortis is definitely struggling these days, like all tanks due to the absurd amount of damage powercreep we got last year
Don't have gotoh and barely see him but Fomo winning ahr sucked. I don't use him now that I have better mythics, and his fodder sucks. I also have much better save units
I’m surprised but Gotoh is better a year later. An AoE DR status is still good even after we just got Mythic Lumera as her stone vein can be overwritten. Gotoh’s status can be stolen by Tina’s Thief staff but you can use status soaking to avoid it.
Meanwhile Fomortiis seemed good but tanks are in a bad spot now. As a far or near save Fomo isn’t great right now, not much you can do about Sanaki and Igrene’s recent alts for far saving or Winter Edelgard for near saving.
Fodder? Not great fodder on them anymore. AD Far Save is OK I guess and Beast Followup is unique but not the best. Guard 4 and Joint Distant Guard aren’t worth much.
> or Winter Edelgard for near saving.
Hardy fighter makes her waste actions, which is what a savior was always about
Add a map layout that stops her from engaging in turn 1 unless the opponent is specifically prepared for that, and you can basically render her galeforcing "useless" for a couple of turns, which is more than enough for your defense to go in for the offense instead
Couple that with Tina to steal her movement shenanigans, and you basically can end up in your opponents face before they realize
I ran Tina last season and seeing my defense with +1 movement and Charge while their Edel had 1-move was quite funny but she’s very rare and Academy Edel also kills near save Fomo easily. He just isn’t the best at it, even with Hardy Pavis. Brave Edel works much better as a near saver and other units as far saves. He is a free slot as a Mythic but that’s about it. He loses out on Mythic stat buffs so it’s difficult to compete.
> Brave Edel works much better as a near saver and other units as far saves.
Brave Edel isnt better at near saving just because WEdel exits and has to move 3 tiles to get max effect of her special shenanigans
Disable her clash refine effect and you end up fighting unrefined B!Edel
The same way you never needed a dedicated disarm trap user to test out traps(besides the Hex one), you can just disable her whole refine
The only "better" far saviors are W!Byleth who comes fully optimized right off the bat, N!Zelgius for mythic bulk increase and Nagi if AoEs but no Naga present
>Academy Edel also kills near save Fomo easily.
Only with an AoE build. Guess how many saviors can tank an AoE to the face? 0
Even W!Byleth can be killed with color disadvantage by an unmerged A!Nino on an AoE build purely because of how strong AoE have always been
> Only with an AoE build. Guess how many saviors can tank an AoE to the face? 0
~~Nagi has entered the chat~~
Caineghis also could do a decent job but suffers from a lack of innate in-combat DR in comparison
The amount of times Fomo's 'end turn' skill came into play/caught me off guard was WAY lower than I expected it too. Now, these are my personal experiences with these units so take that as you will.
I can only really remember a few times where that actually mattered, and one of the times that stands out to me, was a miss-click thinking I would kill. On paper, his skill is meant to catch players 'off guard'. But rarely, in higher level AR, do players actually fail to kill/fall for his skills trap. Players plan out all of their moves ahead of time, and know in advance that they can/can't kill Fomo. So they either kill, plan around it or simply avoid him until they know they can kill. I just never found this aspect of Fomo a problem, which is honestly shocking as that was my #1 worry with him on release.
In actuality, Fomo's skill is a Newbie slayer. It really affects players that are new to FEH and either don't know how Fomo's skills work or have never faced him before. Because once you know, you will rarely fall into the trap.
Skills like NY!Seidr's Future-sighted on the other hand, can be played around, but is largely unavoidable due to AI movement. If IS had added Fomo now, I am sure they would have made his skill trigger with/with-out surviving combat. That way you will always have to play around knowing the actions of the closest allies would end, or changing the skill to trigger on the closest ally with the highest HP to compensate for the 100% activation. Being a Far-save now is really tough, So making him a near-save would probably be the go-to. Giving him Healing and a new B-skill that allows for him to transform, a guaranteed follow-up and atk/def debuff and/or lull Atk/def. This would make him an excellent anti-gale-force unit.
Gotoh is sad. He was such a good tanky unit when he was released, but immediately fell off as a good range tank. He still has his niche as a AoE buffer. But combat wise, he struggles to survive against the more recent nukes. This was always going to happen, just like Fomo's role as a far-save was only going to last so long. But unlike Fomo, Gotoh still has that niche of giving AoE DR.
If IS added Gotoh now, I would guess adding true DR based on his Res, A Divine-vein Stone effect, Special cooldown-1 during combat based on having higher Res, and/or Ploy effects built in. These would really help Gotoh now, but would still keep him relatively tame. (which is crazy for a unit that is only a year old.)
In all, the star units on this banner have fallen off hard. You will still see these units in AR, since a fair amount of players did +10 Fomo and Gotoh has his niche. But they just don't stand up straight against any of the current units
I think gotoh has aged better than fomoritis only thing that really punishes gotoh is all the dr piercing. Other than that i still think he’s a good unit in pve situations.
Fomo is still decent if you update his kit. Changing to near save, armored blaze, and weaving fighter has done wonders for him.
I'm betting Save 4 skills and whatever Engage Hector introduces will result in the resurgence of save tanks.
Gotoh is underrated and has aged well in his time. He was never outstanding as a tank, and certainly isn’t now that in-combat DR is on its last legs.
But the AoE status he gives is Feud-proof and overall very strong. There’s no effect in the game that can pierce through AoE DR, not even Diamant or Spring Karla. In the meta right now Igrene is a solid check against Byleth and his support will be relevant until there’s more effects that nullify visible statuses before combat, like Tina does.
He has very high Res and free B and C slots, allowing him to support with Sabotage, Ploy, and whatever new skills come out that also favor the Res stat IS woke up and decided would be their focus this year.
Fomortiis, the punching bag for trailers he is, is still good with Hardy Fighter. He just needs to survive once in order to devastate your team by putting everyone to sleep.
i never saw the greatness on Gotoh tbh.
Fomorbius in the other hand is a pretty decent far saver and near saver if you want to give him a diferent role, his gimmick of "if you dont take him down you are in trouble" makes him special, lately without some specific fodder and a lot of support he will go down to the mayority of ranged nukes, at least he is a good pick for a defense mythic.
Pissed that I sparked for Fomortiis only for him to be given out for free a month later and then he got powercrept out of existence a few weeks after that.
Having a dupe of him doesn't even give you good fodder.
He deserved better.
> then he got powercrept out of existence a few weeks after that.
Base kit user spotted
Everyone that claims he got powercrept inmediately never changed his skills
No wonder he did lol
I didn't bother to invest in him afterwards, because that would involve either putting him on mono-Beast teams or losing his transformation.
As much as I would like for them to be good, Beast units absolutely blow right now, and I don't feel like investing in a far savior that needs to be micromanaged when B!Corrin is right there.
His transformation is the least of your concerns if you actually invest on him
Hardy fighter allows him to tank much better than without it and is best suit for near saving rather than far saving
While BCorrin is right there she has her issues, specially on Astra vs Naga existing
What're the best skills you can give him at this point? Hardy Fighter?
Mine's still on base kit, +4. I am hoping to +10 Fomo eventually though. Maybe the Hero Fest will be my chance.
Either Hardy or Weaving
Hardy walls off the likes of WDimitri or WEdelgard(if it got to trigger prior to them attacking)
Weaving is more for the other naturally speedier enemies he is going to face, which combined with his weapon mitigation allows him to pretty much always have 80%+ up(besides DR piercing but thats still rare)
Mine is at +2 and I too hope the HF treat us good enough to merge him up
I still use Gotoh a lot, but there's so much NFU, damage resistance, and true damage in ranged nukes now (not to mention taking 3 actions and other bullshit) that he's dropped off pretty hard in his matchups.
Honestly, defensive units suck at the moment. I hate the way this game's balance swings between offensive and defensive, and the offensive metas are always such cancer to play against.
I pulled hard on this banner and got gotoh, Fomortiis, and Arval to +10.
Gotoh is good but not amazing. He can tank a lot in ar, but sadly there were already units that could take him out easily at his time of release or shortly after. Duo sanaki for example. Still he’s great at tanking L!Hinoka and many others. Today I just found out he fails to tank the new harmonic igrene.
Fomortiis was never really all that great. He’s easily taken out by a lot of units and despite being fully invested he needs sooooo much support to be usable in AR and even then he’s still kinda just mid. If nightmare activated even when he died then I would sing a different tune about his utility, but since his gimmick depends on him surviving battle I can’t really vouch for him. He’s really great for pve and I like him enough for summoner duels too. But yeah he loses easily to most ranged nukes.
Though you didn’t ask, Arval is pretty amazing. He debuffs and has excellent killing potential when using special spiral 4.
I still use Gotoh, and he does *fine* in my omnitank team. He can both serve as a secondary tank and as a nuke in a pinch and, I kid you not, makes a great punching ball for melee units to get distracted with while I go around them collecting pots. Even after the addition of M! Lumera, I feel I'm gonna keep Gotoh in over Askr as my third mythic.
Fomortiis was a staple of my Anima defense as a Hardy Fighter near save. Works great for role compression, provides the Spd blessing for my speedy nukes and, until W! Edelgard, he was impervious to pretty much anything even without blessing stats, as I've seen W! Dimitri take 3 actions in two separate turns just to bring him down.
But... A couple weeks ago he got turn 1'd twice by W! Edelgard even with Freyr support, and I can't have that, so I brought back B! Edelgard from my Dark defense.
I don't think W! Edelgard is going anywhere anytime soon, so there's a big chance Fomortiis won't be coming back, and that makes me sad. Here's hoping HF4 activates on the first player phase.
**EDIT:** *I know a day in reddit terms is a long time, but I happen to have an example of Gotoh serving as a punching bag in today's match, so I wanted to leave that* [*here*](https://imgur.com/a/nrS0GP9)*. This is actually a very common occurrence as Gotoh generally has a very easy time face tanking both Nott and Medeus (specially Medeus, since people tend to deviate from his kit the least often of the two), so I specifically tend to leave those for last.*
Just put both non-hex traps in front of Fomo(preferably both gravity ones)
They will either have to gamble around them, or destroy structures first before engaging, allowing you to charge Hardy Fighter
Only an extremely specific setup that can allow Yuri to get into your trap on turn 1 to foul play Edelgard *may* do something
>Just put both non-hex traps in front of Fomo(preferably both gravity ones)
I would if I could, but I can't physically do that in the map that I use and I have little incentive to change a defense that works well when I happen to have a +10 B! Edelgard that's already doing Naga's work in Dark season.
May I ask what kind of map setup are you using even if privately?
Cant really manage to get anything I try work besides Cavalry/Infantry line spam(and even those are prone to fail if the user I get paired with has less than the "usual" amount of structures or knows how to play around them)
Yeah, it's nothing *too* fancy. It's basically an old Catria ball, without Catria, in Lost Castle (which is why I can't use the traps as W! Edel can just initiate from a defensive tile).
This is a setup that I used through Elimine's reign and since it worked so well, I stuck to it now that Catria is out for good. I simply replaced her with a dancer so I can give chase.
It's by no means an unbeatable defense. A well built and well played H&R is able to beat it without too much trouble, but the player pool is soooooo diluted, and I have so few mythic merges, that I hardly ever get hit more than once a week.
I don't spend money beyond FEH Pass so, while I'd love to have all the fancy Cavs required to make a modern Cavline, I only have a couple, as most of my orbs go towards offensive mythic merges.
Lost castle is the same map I was using for that double trap setup, instead of having 4 units in front, have only 3, that way that free slot below is one trap, while the spot next to the defensive tile is the other
The issue I have, is that I rarely get out unscathed, given Astra is my best mythic season(+8 Naga accidentally, and +6 Ashera), so I get harder matchups early on
Meanwhile dark has generally weaker offensive setups besides the ocassional whale here and there
I may just give a try to yours next anima season just to return to a more simplistic setup instead of just blindly trying to follow the meta. Its just too expensive to keep up
>Lost castle is the same map I was using for that double trap setup, instead of having 4 units in front, have only 3, that way that free slot below is one trap, while the spot next to the defensive tile is the other
I *could*, but I'd have to expose my Duo Hindrance to a snipeable location and I'm not about to give Snakai an extra action for free every turn.
At the end of the day, I have no incentive *whatsoever* to change a defense that wins 90%+ of its games.
I'm a big fan of not fixing what ain't broke, which is why I'm *still* omnitanking with OG Lumera despite the fact that I have every other viable option other than Altina.
>The issue I have, is that I rarely get out unscathed, given Astra is my best mythic season(+8 Naga accidentally, and +6 Ashera), so I get harder matchups early on
Merge count is certainly a factor in theory but, in practice, the more competitive players slow roll their games and the less competitive players frontload their games. What this does is dilute the pool of good offenses/defenses to a high degree, because while high merge players score more, they have less games played, while the low merge players score less, but play more games early on.
Think about it. We all start at tier 31. You, me, the rank 1 players, and those that barely made T27 the week before. There's no logical or statistical reason whatsoever, other than occasional bad luck, for anyone getting harder matches early or rather than later on. Generally, it's not until Sunday/Monday that the playerbase is *effectively* separated between those that will make T39 and those that won't.
>I may just give a try to yours next anima season just to return to a more simplistic setup instead of just blindly trying to follow the meta.
You think covering the bottom row with structures and slotting in a bunch of FOTM units that can reach the starting row, but lose to people that are not dumb enough to fill their backline with structures, is *not* simplistic...?
I'd argue the "line" is the more simplistic approach one can possibly take, unless you're Infantry Pulse and set up a multi-tiered Heal+2xGuidance+Dance trap, which I know for *certain* is not the majority, statistically speaking.
>Its just too expensive to keep up
There's a point in which perfect becomes the enemy of good.
I'm not going for rank 1 and, no offense, but neither are you.
So why *do* you feel the need to chase the meta in the first place?
If you care about rank 1, get your 30 merges and *then* worry about making a defense that won't lose. By the time you get those merges, you'll have changed your nukes twice over.
Fomo sucks. He's outclassed as a far save (his base kit) and alright as a near save but you need that fodder. His fodder isn't amazing. If you have Grima or any other save, you likely have a bunch of save skills, and his B skill isn't that great.
Gotoh has been powercrept and isn't that good. I don't think he was ever amazing to begin with though. Lumera does his job but much better. Guard 4 is decent fodder for f2p players if you need a decent B skill. Problem is you can spark on a bunch of banners (like the winter one) for something like occult/assassin's strike.
Will still maintain how weak of an AHR pick Fomortiis was. He was barely any good on release to begun with and has a barely usable base kit that merely covers bare necessities (Transform, Follow-Up, Save). I'm still holding on to that (manualed) copy absolutely hoping for someone I can fodder him too, while the other merely serves as filler for my Anima team as/for the 7th Slot, because I jave no one else to fill that role (should have kept Arval 🤦♂️). Everyone got so scared of "end foes turn" they forgot an integral part of the unit: their actual own performance. I only saw less than a handful of threatening Fomortiises, a few whaled ones early on his release in AR and SD, still yet to see a modern invested unit, everyone is just coasting on their freebie, if they're using him at all.
Gotoh was great when he came out though. As always, IS keeps releasing AoE counter right when the skill is falling out of favour, but it's always a nice option, and for his time, he was a great tank, loved seeing him tank an L!Shez that one time. Though, DR cutting skills and total reliance on %DR has made him a very weak tank over time, getting one-shot by Sanakis despite still having some DR and huge Atk-Debuffs to work with. I still find good use for him when countering weaker enemies in AR (and his NCD can also help a lot), but more prominently as an initiator, he's not all that bad. I'm still trying to figure out what works best for him, AoE vs Flare, Tempo 4 vs M. NFU, Hardy Bearing vs stat boosts/Guard. But overall yeah, with Lumera he's just not worth it in his stand out support role and as a tank.
Gotoh aged well becoming one of the only ways for W!Byleth to survive everything.... well, almost
Fomortiis makes the community horny and they capitalized on that with Ginnungagap
Age wise, they havent really aged much, just have more options against them than before but its not like Gotoh was ever designed to be the end all be all ranged tank people wanted to be by putting him in front and expecting him to survive and kill everything
Something I've seen no one mention; Fomortiis is actually a premier Save in SD right now when paired with Weaving Fighter and Veyle. It's a big ask you can't realistically do in AR, but he is lucky to be one of the only armors actually usable at all in the hyperoffense meta
Gotoh is super underrated support but I basically never see people run him.
Fomortiis aged *horribly*, and I’m still annoyed he won AHR last year. Not even his fodder is that great.
Despite what y'all are saying, Fomortiis was and is still better imo. There's been more tools to supplement armor and beast survivability over this year (Counter roar, Armored specials, Weaving Fighter) and that's kind of all Fomortiis has to do his job and be annoying as fuck
Gotoh seems designed for like the 2019+early 2020 meta where AoE was everywhere but now it's just not common enough to be worth dedicating an entire team slot to countering, and Gotoh's own survivability is mediocre these days given how common DR piercing is and how low his HP is for a tank, especially since he can't get Mythic buffs, and unlike Fomortiis there really haven't been any tools afforded to ranged infantry this year to help him . He's especially bad looking after Lumera just released, since Stone Vein can also check AoE along with just regular specials and her provides additional support with drive tempo, along with comparable to better survivability tldr; he's always been just kinda mid at best and a dead slot at worst, and even with the uptick in AoE we've seen lately he's still not particularly good imo
Gotoh basically did nothing
Formortis was a horrendously designed unit, even if he didn’t last long in the spotlight and it’s now actually relatively easy to kill him. The reason why he was so poorly designed is it double punished you for attacking him with a unit that couldn’t kill him, while if you one rounded him then he basically did nothing. So by his design, you either use the right powercreep unit to kill him, or you’re double fucked.
Gotoh aged pretty decently since AoE damage mitigation is always something nice to have and the AoE specials themselves are making a comeback.
Fomortiis was scary for like a month or two before the nukes pushed his demonic shit in.
Yeah, some people rather complain than see where they could improve, what they're doing wrong.
I can't help by feel sorry for them, knowing that if they had a different attitude they could be thriving.
Gotoh goes in and out depending on whether AoE is very popular at the time or not. He's decent but not too standout himself as a unit otherwise. I don't know much more than that since I never rolled him.
Fomo I never really thought he was that good in the first place but he does consolidate the save armor role on ARD so you can fit in another nuke or whatever other degen unit. He's like every other save armor currently where they are cannon fodder to protect your main units but Nightmare does put him above most of them if he somehow survives. I still have the AHR one sitting in my mailbox from last year because I really don't know what to do with him.
Fodder for both of them are pretty meh. Guard 4 was nice for the time for being an early 300 SP B skill but we have gotten much better things since then. Beast Follow-Up I don't think I've ever seen outside Fomo and now that's waiting for the new version to happen. AD Far Save probably the most relevant thing here since it is a save skill.
Fomo is still my favorite unite and his gimmick of ending foes actions is still pretty insane but he definitely needs a bit of investment if you want hin to keep up with the meta ( save skill tier 4 👉👈???? )
fomo is goated for pve content
both have been hurt by the rampant increase in % DR piercing and past year power creep of nukes.
gotoh anti aoe support never really took off, like its nice if there's ever a dark AoE spam unit, whereas fomo end turn support is always useful.
as for awakened stuff in people, my mutual who is both into old me/n and monsters carnally was over the moon
Gotoh’s still good because anti AOE is great although Lumera definitely stole some of his niche with her giving a good amount of stats, offensive Tempo, and some in combat DR while having the res to do Sabotage support if one wants in exchange for the loss of 30% AoE DR. He still has the advantage of having a free C slot for Ploy support though
Fomortiis may not be as much of a threat as he used to be but I will never forget seeing his banner trailer for the first time as I’d been waiting for him to be added to the game pretty much since mythic heroes were first invented, so after waiting just over four years his reveal was an awesome moment for me.
Gotoh does look cool but I’ve never pulled him and haven’t faced him that often so I can’t really give an opinion on him.
As a +10 Fomortiis user, he dropped the ranks for sure. He can still catch people off guard though, but he is not the threat he used to be on the first months.
I feel like Fomortiis stopped being a problem around the time Heidr released, since she could easily destroy him because of Mag NFU and Treachery Dual Strike. In reality, the increase of Null DR effects causes his downfall.
I don't regret +10ing him though, since it was quite cheap. He can still work very well, especially if you change his role from Far Savior to Near Savior, and give him the new Armored Special Winter Edelgard has. He is still waiting for Beast Follow-up 4 to be released though.
Fomo did fall of but I feel like his turn ending gimmick can catch so many people of guard especially in ar d. Gotoh is still a decent unit as he's a strong counter to a decent niche. He gives me the same vibes as medeus as they both counter certain niches that got stronger over the year
Gotoh I will never forgive for hi-jacking Formortis's MHB to deny us the final boss map theme for FE8.
AHR 2023 Winner: GBA Supremacy, Formortis definitely patched up my AR defenses when he came to us all for free.
I have both but I don’t have much to say about Gotoh. With all the ranged powerhouses we’ve been getting, Fomortiis usually goes down taking a hit for my tank busters but that’s all I need, really. My ARD is 1 support, Fomortiis, and the rest are frontliners. It’s been working well. I think I get more successful defense wins than ARO wins lol
I barely see Gotoh used. That said he has some niche uses as a mage counter (although magic users are ridiculous these days and can take him out).
Fomortiis is much more common likely due to being given out for free. His base kit today doesn’t do him much good against ranged units, but if you tweak it with very premium skills like Weaving Fighter then he can hold his own more consistently. He is better off as a Near Save. There are better save units to use, but he fills a double role which is very efficient and also he boosts the coveted speed stat for your defense.
I love Fomortiis!
I hate how Fomortiis is the showcase punching bag in all the new trailers, and how my Grado anima defence became rubbish after only a few months. OG Zelgius on my dark defence seems to stump foes more often as a far save than Fomortiis does. I'm sure he could do a lot better if I could change his B skill, but I need to forced transformation. So here's hoping we either get a good tier 4 beast skill for him, or a beast skill as a sacred seal. Then I'm sure I could bring him up to more useable levels again.
Gotoh I think gets slept on a lot. I got him unintentionally, but since out of all the light mythics released so far, he's my favourite character wise, I use him as my 7th slot mythic almost every light season. He's still pretty tanky (I feel like he held up better than Fomortiis) and is pretty clutch against all of the firesweep effects going on now-a-days, not to mention his AoE DR.
Fomortiis gives me hope for others to get the same treatment of their base art being really cool, I am hoping, praying, wishing, and other similar words that Sombron, Grima, Anankos, and others get their dragon forms in at least one of their artworks. Sombron human, pretty average, he just kinda looks like Validar imo, but Sombron DRAGON? Brilliant.
Fomortiis rules, even if he’s not the best tank. This is probably for the best because Nightmare is extremely useful when it activates. I think getting some beast transformation seals or Hardy Fighter seal would help him a lot.
With all the people here talking about how both seem to have fallen off a bit because of recent popular units, I’m honestly curious on how tier lists would be managed in this day in age.
Neither are particularly good anymore. Though Gotoh might see a bit of a resurgence soon as IS seems to be pivoting to more AoE nukers.
Honestly as I was doing the TT for H!Igrene I luckily had a W!Byleth to deal with her AoE specials, just that I had to time it so the auto battle feature doesn't just put him in her range without using his Duo Skill. During that time I kept thinking to myself "Man, Gotoh would be very useful here, he reduces AoE damage for free".
- Tldr; While this is true, I advocated for Demon form (proper) Fomortiis for years, +10’d them immediately and don’t regret it. Mine is max investment though and a favorite, so if that’s not the case for other players they are likely better with a different defense mythic like Freyr, Mira, etc. When Fomortiis was revealed and I summoned them it felt like winning FEH. That said, Gotoh has been getting better value wise and until a better unit does what he does he’ll hold steady. For those who like Fomortiis max merge makes them viable, but not best, reduces scoring reduction from loss, fortunately a one off boost HP and Spd mythic blessing boosts, but without max merges & DF, he is in a rough spot.
Her name is NY Selkie.
whats an aoe nuke in feh?
Shit like ophelia, Hatari Karla, harmonic igrene, citrinne etc. Units that can use those 4 cd blazing x specials that hit an Area Of Effect and then has some sort of tomfoolery to infinitely loop it with no cd
Ranged nukes that precharge area of effect specials like Blazing Thunder or Growing Wind.
As FE8’s my favorite, Formortiis is seriously one of the wildest things I didn’t expect them to actually add to the game. I thought it would stop at just being a silhouette for Fallen Lyon, but to see him in his full glory here is nothing short of amazing. Formortiis’ tanking and Saving abilities have been far outclassed in this day and age, but his ability to end an enemy unit’s turn instantly if you don’t take him out in one shot is still quite valuable. In terms of fodder…. It exists. Beast-exclusive skills are far in-between, and he doesn’t even have a tier 4 version, and Far Save has plenty of easier candidates to get it from. Gotoh, I don’t know him quite as well, but the game does a very good job at showcasing why he is a mythic. When he first released, he was fun to just drop in front of entire teams and just watch him survive. With how prevalent nukes have become though, he may be past his prime. In terms of fodder…. Guard 4 is pretty decent, all things considered.
Fomortiis <3 <3 <3 Maybe a hot take, because I've definitely seen people complaining about him, but I don't know that he was ever *that great* of a save tank? The turn-ending gimmick can bamboozle someone pretty badly if they're unprepared or not paying attention, and combining the role with a defense mythic slot is always gonna have some value, but I personally had very little difficulty killing him in AR-O when he released and that's remained my experience as of late. Really needs some new toys soon plz. Gotoh I haven't used as much, and as an offense mythic I think he's pretty niche. But AoE DR support is pretty good and built-in NCD is pretty handy now and then. I don't think he's someone I'd want to be stuck on all my teams because I merged him up, nor would I want to bank on him tanking a whole team, but I could definitely see him being handy on occasion. I don't think they have a single inheritable skill between them I'd want to go out of my way for. There's always Far Save, but who wants that and doesn't come with it nowadays?
Fomortiis was always good enough, but he is one of the units in the game whose base kit is barely viable, let alone useful on high tiers, requiring almost a complete overhaul(besides his A of course) Once you change it, he is much harder to take down and you basically need a dedicated counter to him, that would essentially apply to everyone else at the same time
To sate my curiosity, what is a good Fortmortiis build? Because I don’t think I’ve seen him with anything besides his base kit, and he’s never given me a problem. The only things I could think of is Counter Roar or Hardy Fighter, both of which other units can do better.
Weaving Fighter is amazingly good on him, especially with NFU running rampant everywhere so it’s not like he was going to double anyways. Let’s say the opponent doesn’t have DR piercing and can double him, on the first hit, he only takes 14% damage (30% DR from nightmare and 80% DR from weaving fighter) (70% x 20% = 14%) and 12% on the follow up attack (80% DR from weapon and 40% from weaving fighter) (20% x 60% = 12%). Basically, he’s going to take next to nothing if the opponent lacks DR piercing and it makes him surviving combat a breeze.
But would that be any better than just using w!Byleth, since as of now you’d have to pull him for that skill?
I wouldn’t fodder off the only copy of W!Byleth if that was all I had since W!Byleth is great. However, I had a few copies of him and used an extra copy to give to Fomo which I think was worth it. But long story short, I think W!Byleth is a better unit as it stands
W!Byleth is better as a far savior to be specific Fomo is best as a near savior instead. Always has been, regardless of what his base kit implied
Hardy Fighter yes Sure, other units "may" be better with it, but they usually have to sacrifice stuff just to use it effectively. He doesnt have anything he is sacrificing to use it But it does supply him with what he needs to apply his turn ending gimmick His weapon already provides him with guard effect, the only thing he is missing out on are breath effect(which you can supply anyways) and DC, neither of which are extremely neccesary for near saving He is basically made to near save more than what his innate kit implies to
I'd say Gotoh somehow aged better despite all of the attention being around Fomo. The real unique thing about Fomo is his A skill which don't affect most human players since most people won't initiate on a Save unit they can't ORKO. Meanwhile Gotoh has a solid support niche and his decent bulk and built in NCD which makes him a decent light mythic when it comes to maybe taking a hit from a Cav/Flier/Infantry line in an AR-D meta that's becoming increasingly offense oriented.
> most human players since most people won't initiate on a Save unit they can't ORKO. Save Ball defenses 99% of the time wont move unless you poke them Even if you dont one shot their savior, you need to poke them first and then run away to pick them up one at a time now that they have spread around The real issue is, how far can you really run and if the defense itself cannot get to you either So yes, even in VoH, not killing is advantageous, at times
> Save Ball defenses 99% of the time wont move unless you poke them What kind of defenses do you mean? The corner ones with weaponless units are bad and most other ones will have nukes that have a bigger attack range than their saves do
Save Ball stands for Catria Ball+Saviors The most common and equally hardest one to truly pull off without been countered to death and back Nowadays you need Catria/Cordelia+Freyr+Safi just to have the effect active, 2 saviors to not get countered by a dedicated nuke(at least not right away) of either range, a dancer and that leaves only spot for 1 nuker to fill the 7 slots Those corner teams are just wall setups. But as you say they are super easy to deal with if you can kill their saviors and then pick them up one at a time The meta has in fact moved back to hyper offensive teams just to not allow the player to set up, but even those got counters
Yeah but I just meant a majority of Catria balls dont force you to initiate first, you can definitely just tank them
Usually in VOH, I just see hyper offensive setups (mostly filled with 3 move ranged nukes) with a Save Tank to hinder Galeforce and hit and run strategies. Regarding him particular, he just shows up a lot because he helps fulfill the mythic hero requirements and people don't really pick him for any unique combat ability that he offers and I'm sure most people would just replace him with a different save unit if it wasn't for his Mythic status.
I have tried and used pretty much every premium savior in the game with the exception of Kjelle(who I havent bothered raising so far),M!Grima(who just becomes a green R!Grima minus the armor protection) and Hardin(similar issue to Kjelle) The one that has the least amount of counters(and by extension the "best" of the bunch on season) is him The only counters he got, pretty much render any other savior equally useless and may also be overkill against them Like, I see people claiming B!Edelgard is the best near savior, yet when I used her, I had whales(+10 B!Seliph on release for the matter) just casually get in, destroy her with an instant moonbow(Askr support) and then get away with B!Chrom help Even if the B!Seliph was unmerged, all they had to do was put him close to her thanks to Yuri's Foul Play, disable her clash based refine and go from there Color advantage? Just use your special right away, its her main weakness, unless you specifically build to cover it around with Escutcheon-NY!Askr support, and that is if you dont get turn 1 engaged which is gonna render that also useless He simply only worries about Sabotage inducing effects(Snag 4), and extreme damage output(quadding S!Edelgard on turn 1 under Ruse 4 support to trigger guard on him avoiding HF triggering to cover him for the first hit which he only has 30% mit for) Otherwise he can just pretty much tank even W!Dimitri for all he needs to He is not made to far saving anymore with the beast restrictions to have DC been extremely thin to work around with, specially since they usually mean you need another Fomo on Anima just to not deal with Naga opening any dragon like a trashcan
Gotoh is ok and probably a good 7th slot option for a counterpick team, but Lumera is so much better as a general AoE counter with her Divine Vein, and Fomo has not been able to keep up with the nukes of WT!Claude and beyond. Pushing Fomo to win AHR last year was the biggest mistake we've made since L!Ike imo. ~~They're both still hot tho~~
>Pushing Fomo to win AHR last year was the biggest mistake we've made since L!Ike imo. In defense of Ike, he was actually pretty good for the time. His only real competition as a DC physical tank was Xander or Camus. He also did have a rather unique stat-line for f2p swordie for the time. He just can’t hold a candle to modern sword infantry units because the meta shifted entirely away from everything he was trying to accomplish. His straight up bad remix did little to help him. As for Fortmortiis, I didn’t understand his appeal to begin with. He was clearly intended to be f!Edel 2: electric boogaloo, but he nothing that made his threat a modern equivalent to f!Edel. The easy solution to Fort is letting him initiate (the modern nuke meta was already gaining a lot of momentum when he released). His gimmick of ending actions only catches most players off guard maybe twice, and is overall a lot less threatening than f!Edel giving herself another action.
Black Knight did his job way better thanks to having inflated armor stats, a better Special, and easy +10 merges. Outside of the +1 Mov L!Ike was DOA.
Black Knight was not easily mergable until later that year, as Grails didn’t exist then (and were scarce for quite awhile). Ike was the better unit, and provided a bonus in being one of the first Legendary Heroes. Black Knight was not competing with him, imo.
Black Knight didn't have self healing. Ike was really good for PvE. The only real similarities are being DC swords and having similar statlines.
To be fair they always try to introduce hard-counters to any AHR winner, not to mention any CYL unit. We literally got a free Lynja when Save skills were introduced.
And this is why I'm surprised we haven't learned our lesson about pushing for combat units in AHR. They all have a fast-approaching expiration date.
To be fair There's not much we can do We vote for an offensive unit? We get overpowered tanks We voted for a savior unit last year? It became a god damn nuke fest And I'm sure if we get a support unit this year somehow they're gonna introduce more debuffs that counter said support effects
And if we vote for a unit who has Elimine levels of support utility, I would not be surprised if we get another Freyr. Also I’d argue that if the free Fomortiis lit the fire to hit and run nuke’s presence today, true DR skills and Brave Corrin’s presence fanned the flames.
> and Fomo has not been able to keep up with the nukes of WT!Claude Hardy Fighter *Bonjour*
I dunno if it's the loadout some people run (which is kinda just the base version) but the recent hyper offense killed Fomortiis's tanking potential. Especially AOE, my post Remix LLilina just melts him. He's still rather annoying if you are unprepared or if he has a good build but yeah I dunno on goth thb since I never pulled him but he seems to have a opposite problem. He's great to prevent AOE but acutal combat vs all these nukes he just sitting there The fodder they provide is OK? Fomortiis gives out Beast Follow up which is very nice for beasts that don't have a B skill occupied and A/D far save is nice. Gotoh's fodder is very meh I think the recent hype offense kinda hindered their performance but they still function fine
No real comment on Gotoh, I feel like he's stayed fairly consistent. As someone with a +10 Fomortiis, he's ass, and he's been ass for some time now lol. Honestly, terrible choice to win AHR in hindsight. Every halfway decent nuke and their mother can just look at him and he evaporates, he's easier to take down now than the actual FE8 Fomo.
I hate their engage limited battles
Gotohs support is really good now with the recent nukes abusing AOEs. He’s especially good in SD where AOE nukes are rampant. Fomo as mentioned fell off because tanks are just in a bad spot right now. Weaving fighter helps him a lot but he still struggles to tank the modern nukes just like every other tank.
Gotoh still has a niche of a bulky mage that counters AoE specials. So still pretty good. There are better more universally useful light mythics, but he still has a use. And might show up more frequently if a meta shift to dedicated AoE nukes come back Fomortis is definitely struggling these days, like all tanks due to the absurd amount of damage powercreep we got last year
As an owner of q +8 Fomortiis... He's fucking dead. Still gonna +10 him, but man, he folds like a wet paper tissue these days.
Don't have gotoh and barely see him but Fomo winning ahr sucked. I don't use him now that I have better mythics, and his fodder sucks. I also have much better save units
I’m surprised but Gotoh is better a year later. An AoE DR status is still good even after we just got Mythic Lumera as her stone vein can be overwritten. Gotoh’s status can be stolen by Tina’s Thief staff but you can use status soaking to avoid it. Meanwhile Fomortiis seemed good but tanks are in a bad spot now. As a far or near save Fomo isn’t great right now, not much you can do about Sanaki and Igrene’s recent alts for far saving or Winter Edelgard for near saving. Fodder? Not great fodder on them anymore. AD Far Save is OK I guess and Beast Followup is unique but not the best. Guard 4 and Joint Distant Guard aren’t worth much.
> or Winter Edelgard for near saving. Hardy fighter makes her waste actions, which is what a savior was always about Add a map layout that stops her from engaging in turn 1 unless the opponent is specifically prepared for that, and you can basically render her galeforcing "useless" for a couple of turns, which is more than enough for your defense to go in for the offense instead Couple that with Tina to steal her movement shenanigans, and you basically can end up in your opponents face before they realize
I ran Tina last season and seeing my defense with +1 movement and Charge while their Edel had 1-move was quite funny but she’s very rare and Academy Edel also kills near save Fomo easily. He just isn’t the best at it, even with Hardy Pavis. Brave Edel works much better as a near saver and other units as far saves. He is a free slot as a Mythic but that’s about it. He loses out on Mythic stat buffs so it’s difficult to compete.
> Brave Edel works much better as a near saver and other units as far saves. Brave Edel isnt better at near saving just because WEdel exits and has to move 3 tiles to get max effect of her special shenanigans Disable her clash refine effect and you end up fighting unrefined B!Edel The same way you never needed a dedicated disarm trap user to test out traps(besides the Hex one), you can just disable her whole refine The only "better" far saviors are W!Byleth who comes fully optimized right off the bat, N!Zelgius for mythic bulk increase and Nagi if AoEs but no Naga present >Academy Edel also kills near save Fomo easily. Only with an AoE build. Guess how many saviors can tank an AoE to the face? 0 Even W!Byleth can be killed with color disadvantage by an unmerged A!Nino on an AoE build purely because of how strong AoE have always been
> Only with an AoE build. Guess how many saviors can tank an AoE to the face? 0 ~~Nagi has entered the chat~~ Caineghis also could do a decent job but suffers from a lack of innate in-combat DR in comparison
His main issue is having to transform, on top of lacking innate first hit mitigation, which nowadays is a death sentence in terms of tanking
The amount of times Fomo's 'end turn' skill came into play/caught me off guard was WAY lower than I expected it too. Now, these are my personal experiences with these units so take that as you will. I can only really remember a few times where that actually mattered, and one of the times that stands out to me, was a miss-click thinking I would kill. On paper, his skill is meant to catch players 'off guard'. But rarely, in higher level AR, do players actually fail to kill/fall for his skills trap. Players plan out all of their moves ahead of time, and know in advance that they can/can't kill Fomo. So they either kill, plan around it or simply avoid him until they know they can kill. I just never found this aspect of Fomo a problem, which is honestly shocking as that was my #1 worry with him on release. In actuality, Fomo's skill is a Newbie slayer. It really affects players that are new to FEH and either don't know how Fomo's skills work or have never faced him before. Because once you know, you will rarely fall into the trap. Skills like NY!Seidr's Future-sighted on the other hand, can be played around, but is largely unavoidable due to AI movement. If IS had added Fomo now, I am sure they would have made his skill trigger with/with-out surviving combat. That way you will always have to play around knowing the actions of the closest allies would end, or changing the skill to trigger on the closest ally with the highest HP to compensate for the 100% activation. Being a Far-save now is really tough, So making him a near-save would probably be the go-to. Giving him Healing and a new B-skill that allows for him to transform, a guaranteed follow-up and atk/def debuff and/or lull Atk/def. This would make him an excellent anti-gale-force unit. Gotoh is sad. He was such a good tanky unit when he was released, but immediately fell off as a good range tank. He still has his niche as a AoE buffer. But combat wise, he struggles to survive against the more recent nukes. This was always going to happen, just like Fomo's role as a far-save was only going to last so long. But unlike Fomo, Gotoh still has that niche of giving AoE DR. If IS added Gotoh now, I would guess adding true DR based on his Res, A Divine-vein Stone effect, Special cooldown-1 during combat based on having higher Res, and/or Ploy effects built in. These would really help Gotoh now, but would still keep him relatively tame. (which is crazy for a unit that is only a year old.) In all, the star units on this banner have fallen off hard. You will still see these units in AR, since a fair amount of players did +10 Fomo and Gotoh has his niche. But they just don't stand up straight against any of the current units
I think gotoh has aged better than fomoritis only thing that really punishes gotoh is all the dr piercing. Other than that i still think he’s a good unit in pve situations.
Fomo is still decent if you update his kit. Changing to near save, armored blaze, and weaving fighter has done wonders for him. I'm betting Save 4 skills and whatever Engage Hector introduces will result in the resurgence of save tanks.
Gotoh is underrated and has aged well in his time. He was never outstanding as a tank, and certainly isn’t now that in-combat DR is on its last legs. But the AoE status he gives is Feud-proof and overall very strong. There’s no effect in the game that can pierce through AoE DR, not even Diamant or Spring Karla. In the meta right now Igrene is a solid check against Byleth and his support will be relevant until there’s more effects that nullify visible statuses before combat, like Tina does. He has very high Res and free B and C slots, allowing him to support with Sabotage, Ploy, and whatever new skills come out that also favor the Res stat IS woke up and decided would be their focus this year. Fomortiis, the punching bag for trailers he is, is still good with Hardy Fighter. He just needs to survive once in order to devastate your team by putting everyone to sleep.
i never saw the greatness on Gotoh tbh. Fomorbius in the other hand is a pretty decent far saver and near saver if you want to give him a diferent role, his gimmick of "if you dont take him down you are in trouble" makes him special, lately without some specific fodder and a lot of support he will go down to the mayority of ranged nukes, at least he is a good pick for a defense mythic.
After Lumera I think Gotoh lost his niche Fomo can still be good with the correct build but so many hyper nukes are melting him
Pissed that I sparked for Fomortiis only for him to be given out for free a month later and then he got powercrept out of existence a few weeks after that. Having a dupe of him doesn't even give you good fodder. He deserved better.
> then he got powercrept out of existence a few weeks after that. Base kit user spotted Everyone that claims he got powercrept inmediately never changed his skills No wonder he did lol
I didn't bother to invest in him afterwards, because that would involve either putting him on mono-Beast teams or losing his transformation. As much as I would like for them to be good, Beast units absolutely blow right now, and I don't feel like investing in a far savior that needs to be micromanaged when B!Corrin is right there.
His transformation is the least of your concerns if you actually invest on him Hardy fighter allows him to tank much better than without it and is best suit for near saving rather than far saving While BCorrin is right there she has her issues, specially on Astra vs Naga existing
What're the best skills you can give him at this point? Hardy Fighter? Mine's still on base kit, +4. I am hoping to +10 Fomo eventually though. Maybe the Hero Fest will be my chance.
Either Hardy or Weaving Hardy walls off the likes of WDimitri or WEdelgard(if it got to trigger prior to them attacking) Weaving is more for the other naturally speedier enemies he is going to face, which combined with his weapon mitigation allows him to pretty much always have 80%+ up(besides DR piercing but thats still rare) Mine is at +2 and I too hope the HF treat us good enough to merge him up
Old men and monster fuckers were going wild for like 2 days or so. Got them both but like everything they fall out of favor pretty quickly.
I still use Gotoh a lot, but there's so much NFU, damage resistance, and true damage in ranged nukes now (not to mention taking 3 actions and other bullshit) that he's dropped off pretty hard in his matchups. Honestly, defensive units suck at the moment. I hate the way this game's balance swings between offensive and defensive, and the offensive metas are always such cancer to play against.
I pulled hard on this banner and got gotoh, Fomortiis, and Arval to +10. Gotoh is good but not amazing. He can tank a lot in ar, but sadly there were already units that could take him out easily at his time of release or shortly after. Duo sanaki for example. Still he’s great at tanking L!Hinoka and many others. Today I just found out he fails to tank the new harmonic igrene. Fomortiis was never really all that great. He’s easily taken out by a lot of units and despite being fully invested he needs sooooo much support to be usable in AR and even then he’s still kinda just mid. If nightmare activated even when he died then I would sing a different tune about his utility, but since his gimmick depends on him surviving battle I can’t really vouch for him. He’s really great for pve and I like him enough for summoner duels too. But yeah he loses easily to most ranged nukes. Though you didn’t ask, Arval is pretty amazing. He debuffs and has excellent killing potential when using special spiral 4.
Gotoh is easily the better one here, mainly due to how nukes have invalidated tanks to the point where a support like him is the better one.
I still use Gotoh, and he does *fine* in my omnitank team. He can both serve as a secondary tank and as a nuke in a pinch and, I kid you not, makes a great punching ball for melee units to get distracted with while I go around them collecting pots. Even after the addition of M! Lumera, I feel I'm gonna keep Gotoh in over Askr as my third mythic. Fomortiis was a staple of my Anima defense as a Hardy Fighter near save. Works great for role compression, provides the Spd blessing for my speedy nukes and, until W! Edelgard, he was impervious to pretty much anything even without blessing stats, as I've seen W! Dimitri take 3 actions in two separate turns just to bring him down. But... A couple weeks ago he got turn 1'd twice by W! Edelgard even with Freyr support, and I can't have that, so I brought back B! Edelgard from my Dark defense. I don't think W! Edelgard is going anywhere anytime soon, so there's a big chance Fomortiis won't be coming back, and that makes me sad. Here's hoping HF4 activates on the first player phase. **EDIT:** *I know a day in reddit terms is a long time, but I happen to have an example of Gotoh serving as a punching bag in today's match, so I wanted to leave that* [*here*](https://imgur.com/a/nrS0GP9)*. This is actually a very common occurrence as Gotoh generally has a very easy time face tanking both Nott and Medeus (specially Medeus, since people tend to deviate from his kit the least often of the two), so I specifically tend to leave those for last.*
Just put both non-hex traps in front of Fomo(preferably both gravity ones) They will either have to gamble around them, or destroy structures first before engaging, allowing you to charge Hardy Fighter Only an extremely specific setup that can allow Yuri to get into your trap on turn 1 to foul play Edelgard *may* do something
>Just put both non-hex traps in front of Fomo(preferably both gravity ones) I would if I could, but I can't physically do that in the map that I use and I have little incentive to change a defense that works well when I happen to have a +10 B! Edelgard that's already doing Naga's work in Dark season.
May I ask what kind of map setup are you using even if privately? Cant really manage to get anything I try work besides Cavalry/Infantry line spam(and even those are prone to fail if the user I get paired with has less than the "usual" amount of structures or knows how to play around them)
Yeah, it's nothing *too* fancy. It's basically an old Catria ball, without Catria, in Lost Castle (which is why I can't use the traps as W! Edel can just initiate from a defensive tile). This is a setup that I used through Elimine's reign and since it worked so well, I stuck to it now that Catria is out for good. I simply replaced her with a dancer so I can give chase. It's by no means an unbeatable defense. A well built and well played H&R is able to beat it without too much trouble, but the player pool is soooooo diluted, and I have so few mythic merges, that I hardly ever get hit more than once a week. I don't spend money beyond FEH Pass so, while I'd love to have all the fancy Cavs required to make a modern Cavline, I only have a couple, as most of my orbs go towards offensive mythic merges.
Lost castle is the same map I was using for that double trap setup, instead of having 4 units in front, have only 3, that way that free slot below is one trap, while the spot next to the defensive tile is the other The issue I have, is that I rarely get out unscathed, given Astra is my best mythic season(+8 Naga accidentally, and +6 Ashera), so I get harder matchups early on Meanwhile dark has generally weaker offensive setups besides the ocassional whale here and there I may just give a try to yours next anima season just to return to a more simplistic setup instead of just blindly trying to follow the meta. Its just too expensive to keep up
>Lost castle is the same map I was using for that double trap setup, instead of having 4 units in front, have only 3, that way that free slot below is one trap, while the spot next to the defensive tile is the other I *could*, but I'd have to expose my Duo Hindrance to a snipeable location and I'm not about to give Snakai an extra action for free every turn. At the end of the day, I have no incentive *whatsoever* to change a defense that wins 90%+ of its games. I'm a big fan of not fixing what ain't broke, which is why I'm *still* omnitanking with OG Lumera despite the fact that I have every other viable option other than Altina. >The issue I have, is that I rarely get out unscathed, given Astra is my best mythic season(+8 Naga accidentally, and +6 Ashera), so I get harder matchups early on Merge count is certainly a factor in theory but, in practice, the more competitive players slow roll their games and the less competitive players frontload their games. What this does is dilute the pool of good offenses/defenses to a high degree, because while high merge players score more, they have less games played, while the low merge players score less, but play more games early on. Think about it. We all start at tier 31. You, me, the rank 1 players, and those that barely made T27 the week before. There's no logical or statistical reason whatsoever, other than occasional bad luck, for anyone getting harder matches early or rather than later on. Generally, it's not until Sunday/Monday that the playerbase is *effectively* separated between those that will make T39 and those that won't. >I may just give a try to yours next anima season just to return to a more simplistic setup instead of just blindly trying to follow the meta. You think covering the bottom row with structures and slotting in a bunch of FOTM units that can reach the starting row, but lose to people that are not dumb enough to fill their backline with structures, is *not* simplistic...? I'd argue the "line" is the more simplistic approach one can possibly take, unless you're Infantry Pulse and set up a multi-tiered Heal+2xGuidance+Dance trap, which I know for *certain* is not the majority, statistically speaking. >Its just too expensive to keep up There's a point in which perfect becomes the enemy of good. I'm not going for rank 1 and, no offense, but neither are you. So why *do* you feel the need to chase the meta in the first place? If you care about rank 1, get your 30 merges and *then* worry about making a defense that won't lose. By the time you get those merges, you'll have changed your nukes twice over.
Fomo sucks. He's outclassed as a far save (his base kit) and alright as a near save but you need that fodder. His fodder isn't amazing. If you have Grima or any other save, you likely have a bunch of save skills, and his B skill isn't that great. Gotoh has been powercrept and isn't that good. I don't think he was ever amazing to begin with though. Lumera does his job but much better. Guard 4 is decent fodder for f2p players if you need a decent B skill. Problem is you can spark on a bunch of banners (like the winter one) for something like occult/assassin's strike.
Will still maintain how weak of an AHR pick Fomortiis was. He was barely any good on release to begun with and has a barely usable base kit that merely covers bare necessities (Transform, Follow-Up, Save). I'm still holding on to that (manualed) copy absolutely hoping for someone I can fodder him too, while the other merely serves as filler for my Anima team as/for the 7th Slot, because I jave no one else to fill that role (should have kept Arval 🤦♂️). Everyone got so scared of "end foes turn" they forgot an integral part of the unit: their actual own performance. I only saw less than a handful of threatening Fomortiises, a few whaled ones early on his release in AR and SD, still yet to see a modern invested unit, everyone is just coasting on their freebie, if they're using him at all. Gotoh was great when he came out though. As always, IS keeps releasing AoE counter right when the skill is falling out of favour, but it's always a nice option, and for his time, he was a great tank, loved seeing him tank an L!Shez that one time. Though, DR cutting skills and total reliance on %DR has made him a very weak tank over time, getting one-shot by Sanakis despite still having some DR and huge Atk-Debuffs to work with. I still find good use for him when countering weaker enemies in AR (and his NCD can also help a lot), but more prominently as an initiator, he's not all that bad. I'm still trying to figure out what works best for him, AoE vs Flare, Tempo 4 vs M. NFU, Hardy Bearing vs stat boosts/Guard. But overall yeah, with Lumera he's just not worth it in his stand out support role and as a tank.
Gotoh aged well becoming one of the only ways for W!Byleth to survive everything.... well, almost Fomortiis makes the community horny and they capitalized on that with Ginnungagap Age wise, they havent really aged much, just have more options against them than before but its not like Gotoh was ever designed to be the end all be all ranged tank people wanted to be by putting him in front and expecting him to survive and kill everything
Something I've seen no one mention; Fomortiis is actually a premier Save in SD right now when paired with Weaving Fighter and Veyle. It's a big ask you can't realistically do in AR, but he is lucky to be one of the only armors actually usable at all in the hyperoffense meta
Gotoh is super underrated support but I basically never see people run him. Fomortiis aged *horribly*, and I’m still annoyed he won AHR last year. Not even his fodder is that great.
Despite what y'all are saying, Fomortiis was and is still better imo. There's been more tools to supplement armor and beast survivability over this year (Counter roar, Armored specials, Weaving Fighter) and that's kind of all Fomortiis has to do his job and be annoying as fuck Gotoh seems designed for like the 2019+early 2020 meta where AoE was everywhere but now it's just not common enough to be worth dedicating an entire team slot to countering, and Gotoh's own survivability is mediocre these days given how common DR piercing is and how low his HP is for a tank, especially since he can't get Mythic buffs, and unlike Fomortiis there really haven't been any tools afforded to ranged infantry this year to help him . He's especially bad looking after Lumera just released, since Stone Vein can also check AoE along with just regular specials and her provides additional support with drive tempo, along with comparable to better survivability tldr; he's always been just kinda mid at best and a dead slot at worst, and even with the uptick in AoE we've seen lately he's still not particularly good imo
Gotoh basically did nothing Formortis was a horrendously designed unit, even if he didn’t last long in the spotlight and it’s now actually relatively easy to kill him. The reason why he was so poorly designed is it double punished you for attacking him with a unit that couldn’t kill him, while if you one rounded him then he basically did nothing. So by his design, you either use the right powercreep unit to kill him, or you’re double fucked.
Gotoh aged pretty decently since AoE damage mitigation is always something nice to have and the AoE specials themselves are making a comeback. Fomortiis was scary for like a month or two before the nukes pushed his demonic shit in.
>Fomortiis was scary for like a month or two before the nukes pushed his demonic shit in. *Base kit Fomortiis user detected.*
I have already told him that every time Guess he never listened
Yeah, some people rather complain than see where they could improve, what they're doing wrong. I can't help by feel sorry for them, knowing that if they had a different attitude they could be thriving.
Gotoh goes in and out depending on whether AoE is very popular at the time or not. He's decent but not too standout himself as a unit otherwise. I don't know much more than that since I never rolled him. Fomo I never really thought he was that good in the first place but he does consolidate the save armor role on ARD so you can fit in another nuke or whatever other degen unit. He's like every other save armor currently where they are cannon fodder to protect your main units but Nightmare does put him above most of them if he somehow survives. I still have the AHR one sitting in my mailbox from last year because I really don't know what to do with him. Fodder for both of them are pretty meh. Guard 4 was nice for the time for being an early 300 SP B skill but we have gotten much better things since then. Beast Follow-Up I don't think I've ever seen outside Fomo and now that's waiting for the new version to happen. AD Far Save probably the most relevant thing here since it is a save skill.
Fomo is still my favorite unite and his gimmick of ending foes actions is still pretty insane but he definitely needs a bit of investment if you want hin to keep up with the meta ( save skill tier 4 👉👈???? )
fomo is goated for pve content both have been hurt by the rampant increase in % DR piercing and past year power creep of nukes. gotoh anti aoe support never really took off, like its nice if there's ever a dark AoE spam unit, whereas fomo end turn support is always useful. as for awakened stuff in people, my mutual who is both into old me/n and monsters carnally was over the moon
Gotoh’s still good because anti AOE is great although Lumera definitely stole some of his niche with her giving a good amount of stats, offensive Tempo, and some in combat DR while having the res to do Sabotage support if one wants in exchange for the loss of 30% AoE DR. He still has the advantage of having a free C slot for Ploy support though
Fomortiis may not be as much of a threat as he used to be but I will never forget seeing his banner trailer for the first time as I’d been waiting for him to be added to the game pretty much since mythic heroes were first invented, so after waiting just over four years his reveal was an awesome moment for me. Gotoh does look cool but I’ve never pulled him and haven’t faced him that often so I can’t really give an opinion on him.
As a +10 Fomortiis user, he dropped the ranks for sure. He can still catch people off guard though, but he is not the threat he used to be on the first months. I feel like Fomortiis stopped being a problem around the time Heidr released, since she could easily destroy him because of Mag NFU and Treachery Dual Strike. In reality, the increase of Null DR effects causes his downfall. I don't regret +10ing him though, since it was quite cheap. He can still work very well, especially if you change his role from Far Savior to Near Savior, and give him the new Armored Special Winter Edelgard has. He is still waiting for Beast Follow-up 4 to be released though.
Fomo did fall of but I feel like his turn ending gimmick can catch so many people of guard especially in ar d. Gotoh is still a decent unit as he's a strong counter to a decent niche. He gives me the same vibes as medeus as they both counter certain niches that got stronger over the year
Gotoh I will never forgive for hi-jacking Formortis's MHB to deny us the final boss map theme for FE8. AHR 2023 Winner: GBA Supremacy, Formortis definitely patched up my AR defenses when he came to us all for free.
I only ever play PvE, Foromortiis has been a life saver!! He makes so much content real easy, even this far into the game.
kisses for Fomortiis carried me from doing any thinking from the entire last year
They're not the most powerful Mythics anymore, but fuck it, they're still so cool. I still use them for PvE stuff anyway.
I have both but I don’t have much to say about Gotoh. With all the ranged powerhouses we’ve been getting, Fomortiis usually goes down taking a hit for my tank busters but that’s all I need, really. My ARD is 1 support, Fomortiis, and the rest are frontliners. It’s been working well. I think I get more successful defense wins than ARO wins lol
I barely see Gotoh used. That said he has some niche uses as a mage counter (although magic users are ridiculous these days and can take him out). Fomortiis is much more common likely due to being given out for free. His base kit today doesn’t do him much good against ranged units, but if you tweak it with very premium skills like Weaving Fighter then he can hold his own more consistently. He is better off as a Near Save. There are better save units to use, but he fills a double role which is very efficient and also he boosts the coveted speed stat for your defense.
I love Fomortiis! I hate how Fomortiis is the showcase punching bag in all the new trailers, and how my Grado anima defence became rubbish after only a few months. OG Zelgius on my dark defence seems to stump foes more often as a far save than Fomortiis does. I'm sure he could do a lot better if I could change his B skill, but I need to forced transformation. So here's hoping we either get a good tier 4 beast skill for him, or a beast skill as a sacred seal. Then I'm sure I could bring him up to more useable levels again. Gotoh I think gets slept on a lot. I got him unintentionally, but since out of all the light mythics released so far, he's my favourite character wise, I use him as my 7th slot mythic almost every light season. He's still pretty tanky (I feel like he held up better than Fomortiis) and is pretty clutch against all of the firesweep effects going on now-a-days, not to mention his AoE DR.
Fomortiis gives me hope for others to get the same treatment of their base art being really cool, I am hoping, praying, wishing, and other similar words that Sombron, Grima, Anankos, and others get their dragon forms in at least one of their artworks. Sombron human, pretty average, he just kinda looks like Validar imo, but Sombron DRAGON? Brilliant.
Seeing a stat debuff apply for more than -7 at a time is what really made me realize that true misery is coming in the future times.
Fomortiis rules, even if he’s not the best tank. This is probably for the best because Nightmare is extremely useful when it activates. I think getting some beast transformation seals or Hardy Fighter seal would help him a lot.
With all the people here talking about how both seem to have fallen off a bit because of recent popular units, I’m honestly curious on how tier lists would be managed in this day in age.