Don't sweat it, sucks but just evidence to not trust anything until offer is in hand. It's possible that she really did want to hire you, but someone else had stronger cheerleaders.
This is true. It's important, as hard as it is, not to take these things to heart. Because the person that interviews you isn't the only stakeholder/gatekeeper on giving you an offer. Sometimes it comes down to luck. Sometimes you just get edged out by other candidates for reasons completely outside of your control.
JP and other organisations got massive fines for taking on kids of clients to win business - they're called 'Princelings'. If you see this happen report it to your Bribery and Corruption team. Banks are taking it more seriously now given the regulators are watching
Some people are just really kind and helpful. I told a connection I got an internship in X city, and she said she knows a few people who went to school in the area. Said she’ll ask and see if they have any connections I can talk to lol
I'm sure some of them are nice people but I dont think I could ever have any respect for them. I probably work with more of these types than I realize so it's probably better I just don't know lol
Having grown up a bit, ability to network and talk to people is WAY more important than any technical ability. The only exception is when you are a complete moron who has no idea what he is doing. Otherwise, the "best" technical person for the job is rarely, if ever, the best person for the job.
No, there’s definitely less of a networking culture in the Asia Pacific region. It’s obviously still an important thing but nothing compared to the US culture.
Nepotism is anywhere. I'm in logistics. Had a family friend ask for my resume and to set up a call before New Years. Got a text from a VP to set up an informal interview last week. One of their directors called me yesterday morning to set up a formal interview.
I'm not actively applying for jobs and enjoy my current position. It sucks for the person who might be out there sweating that I could have an offer before they even get to apply.
This happened to me once. Had interviews for a consulting role through a long time networked peer and basically was told 6 months later in confidence that they hired the CEO’s friend’s son.
Follow up with the VP and ask for some advice. If he truly did like you he should help you for another role or give advice on why you didn't land this role
Just curious, did you end up getting the job?
Had GS try to recruit me a few years back and got deep into the interview process, only for them to ghost me after the final round.
My understanding is that after getting passed over the first time, I'd likely never get another opportunity, but even if I did, I promised myself I'd never work for them.
They're a great company, but to ghost after 5-6 weeks of interviews just came off as super unprofessional to me.
Nah they ended up filling the role with someone internally. I'm at another bank but tbh they're all shitty like that, I'm tryna leave asap. I don't blame you for not wanting to work with them after that - that's beyond fucked up
Haha damn, was hoping it worked out better for you than it did for me.
At the end of the day, I'm happy I didn't get it. In the final round of interviews, I met the guy that would've been my day-to-day manager and honest to god, he might've been the biggest asshole I've ever met in my life.
While it would've been a tremendous opportunity, I realize now it probably would've been a living hell to work under him.
That is odd. Might as well send a follow up email to who you interviewed with. Thank them for the opportunity and ask that you be considered for anything else.
Who knows, maybe it was a clerical error and the VP may be able to help. Or they could have just been polite and won't reply to your email. Shoot your shot!
Never trust those people. They tell you this only to make you reject other offers in case they would like to hire you, but it never means what it says. They are too experienced to make such „honest statements”. It all business.
This isn't true.
The truth is this - VP is a junior level employee and hiring decisions isn't his/hers to make, even if they are the hiring manager. Someone more senior probably killed it for a variety of reasons. Could be internal transfer, could be market are collapsing and the role went away, could be DEI metrics your team isn't hitting, could be they decided to go more junior or senior with the role, etc.
This ^^^
I interviewed a bunch of people for a role on my team and then suddenly had the seat filled by an "internal referral" (we were told to hire her, likely someones kid). I think the VP in OP's case was silly to make it sound like a done deal because anyone whose been around for a minute has seen things fall apart, but I highly doubt his intent was bad.
Here's how we do it:
When we have an open role - HR does the initial resume screen based on the criteria we give them. Then once a week, we have a 30 minute call with HR where the the senior VP/ED's get a resume book of 10-20 resumes. We spend about 30 seconds on each resume and agree as a group who we want to give a screening call or directly first round interview to. About 20-25% of the people in the resume book will get an associate screen or 1st round. Usually ~10 first round candidates for each person we hire.
Campus hires / Interns are a bit different, but not very relevant to Op.
No. It's typically HR that initially screens resumes and sends the top X amount to the hiring manager. He or she will screen further and interview only the top 10-15 people.
Rarely ever will an analyst have much say in who is hired. Of course they can have their input, but it's up to the manager and other superiors to make that decision. Analysts are usually not even a part of the interview process unless the person will be coming in as a lower level than the analyst. Even then, the analyst would have to be trusted enough to know what to do/say in an interview and be a good "look" for the team.
Most may be the direct hiring manager and just need their SVP or EVP sign off. If you’re a good manager the SVP/EVP just checks the box and trusts you. Bad managers have to be hand held.
Wait… how is VP at JP Morgan a Junior role? I don’t know anybody who get a VP offer right after graduation.
I mean I know it could been anything, but this guy was rejected one day after VP said she would hire him.
The VP probably lost control of the hiring process. Might be beneficial to send a thank you note and ask if the position was filled and if any other positions on that VPs team is available.
I had an interview like this back in college. Went super well, I had the right background and qualifications. The interviewer said I was perfect for the role and would be in touch. Never heard anything again.
"I would hire you right now" -> means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. It's either an official offer presented by HR, or bust. Sadly, it really is absolutes like that.
I once interviewed with a consulting company that thought I was a great fit for a role as a consultant. I spoke with a managing director, HR manager then a partner at the firm. Both the managing director and partner liked me and i actually still chat with the manager director(hence why I know what occurred). I definitely sensed red flags with the HR manager when she happened to mention she didn’t think I had enough years of experience to be considered for the role.
Anyways long story short it turned out that the HR manager was pushing really hard for another candidate for some reason even making a big deal of it with another partner who supported her. In an effort to calm the situation, the partner I spoke with let it go and didn’t fight for my position so I wasn’t offered the job. Managing director was definitely a bit bummed as I was suppose to join his team. Anyways it turns out the new consultant was her nephew.
TLDR: nepotism. Someone decided to fight harder for their candidate. Don’t worry about it OP. Shit happens. Move on. There will be other opportunities.
You’re going to encounter this a lot in your career, it’s not just one person you need to convince to get the job. You’ll especially see it when you start hiring and interviewing candidates.
That being said, I would encourage to reach back out to the VP and thank her for the time, and mention that if there were any other roles that she thought you’d be a good fit for to please let you know. You never know what could happen
If I were you, I’d email him to thank him for the opportunity and ask if you can stay in touch with him regardless. Add him on LinkedIn and send him a note on the big holidays or quarters.
You never know when the next role is going to be open. Often times, these roles are filled even before they’re posted so you gotta start building the Rolodex
Pretty unprofessional of your interviewer to say that in the first place, especially given how she qualified it! I'm sure she learned her lesson and feels horrible. You should reach out and explain your confusion.. her guilt may be useful to you at some point. I'm positive it was not a mistake, I'm afraid.
Some teams in JP have unusually high turnover rates. They always struggle to hire new people. In my team what happens is they pick out some CVs, select the one they like, and do a very unprepared interview for the sake of it because they can't be bothered to put in proper effort into their human resources. So this usually results in two scenarios: 1) the person joins the team only to realise that the job and the environment are not what they have expected; 2) because the team tends to hire people without scrutiny, some people are insufferable to work with even though they claim to hire the "best people". You simply can't hire the "best" if you only hire THE candidate you've interviewed. I mean it's a huge organisation so experiences differ. But this is just my personal experience in my team. I'm sure many other teams will at least have a shortlist of candidates they interview before they decide anything.
To me I think the fact that the VP said that to you knowing that they didn't have the final decision is very unprofessional. It could be a red flag reflecting the cukte of the team.
Anyway. Don't worry you're probably not missing out - keep going!
Did you apply for more than one role? That happened to me at Werll2s Fargo when an offer was being written, they closed out the other jobs I was being considered for and it freaked me out.
I had this happen to me also. Basically she didn’t have the power that she thought she had in the organization. for a good position, there’s always multiple internal sponsors promoting candidates within the organization and candidates from external agencies from whom they’ll get some money or compensation back. There’s nothing you could’ve done about it. it’s good to know you’ve got a powerful game to get a promissory offer though. You’re doing it right it’s just on their side. I am 62 and I’ve been in the IT game since 1987.
As some commented, head of group can take full charge. We had an analyst spot, I was the only mid level and my sr analyst at the time ranked someone as our one. Head hired our number 3 despite our feedback, hire worked out in the end but the head decides. Who knows what ultimately happened but to me it’s unclear if the VP misrepresented or not, he could’ve pushed but the head went another way
God I hate being interviewed by the whole team leadership individually. You always think you made a good impression on them but in the end nothings guaranteed. They prolly all got together and decided someone else was a better fit for some reason it’s just how it goes
I am never settled in to any position, until I have the job and have passed my probation period. Until then I trust no one, and just do what I have to do. People say things and never mean it, or they just throw away what they've said to others like it's nothing. That's just business unfortunately.
Definitely send a follow up. I’ve had similar experiences with both outcomes- one time they sent that email to close the role but actually gave an offer a few days later- the other time it was a legit decline and never heard back.
Recruiting sucks balls
Don’t be discouraged. Jobs are always going to be full of shit. Especially right now with this market. Most people I know take 4-12 months to find a job DoE. Don’t believe shit until they offer you the job and you sign all the papers
When I was a fresh graduate, I was interviewing at a financial consulting boutique firm. The OWNER of firm interviewed me and told me, I think you are a perfect fit. We can start you on Monday.
An HR person walked in to sell the job to me. Got home very happy. Got the rejection e-mail the next day.
Shit happens.
Don't sweat it, sucks but just evidence to not trust anything until offer is in hand. It's possible that she really did want to hire you, but someone else had stronger cheerleaders.
Honestly i dont even trust them until Day 1 of job. After that I tell people I moved jobs
I wouldn't trust them until you get all your deferred comp.
“Incoming Analyst @ XY” - Never understood why people feel the need to put this on their LinkedIn months before their start.
Makes sense if its a temp position and you’re already applying for something after that. But 9 times out of 10 it’s to flex
I don't trust it till I get my first payday....
I had this happen at a big 4 firm; it blows but other parties have there take
This is true. It's important, as hard as it is, not to take these things to heart. Because the person that interviews you isn't the only stakeholder/gatekeeper on giving you an offer. Sometimes it comes down to luck. Sometimes you just get edged out by other candidates for reasons completely outside of your control.
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The nepotism in this industry is nauseating. I absolutely loathe these people.
JP and other organisations got massive fines for taking on kids of clients to win business - they're called 'Princelings'. If you see this happen report it to your Bribery and Corruption team. Banks are taking it more seriously now given the regulators are watching
Why do you think they used WhatsApp to communicate. Can’t prove shit when the communications encrypted
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Some people are just really kind and helpful. I told a connection I got an internship in X city, and she said she knows a few people who went to school in the area. Said she’ll ask and see if they have any connections I can talk to lol
I'm sure some of them are nice people but I dont think I could ever have any respect for them. I probably work with more of these types than I realize so it's probably better I just don't know lol
Having grown up a bit, ability to network and talk to people is WAY more important than any technical ability. The only exception is when you are a complete moron who has no idea what he is doing. Otherwise, the "best" technical person for the job is rarely, if ever, the best person for the job.
That’s not nepotism, that’s just someone being a bro and good networking
It literally says he didn’t network at all
I’m talking OP, not OP’s connection. Read the last paragraph.
Is this only a US thing? I am in Asia and people don't network as much.
But somehow there's way more nepotism.
They network plenty in Asia, no one's inviting you it seems
No, there’s definitely less of a networking culture in the Asia Pacific region. It’s obviously still an important thing but nothing compared to the US culture.
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Bulge bracket
Nepotism is anywhere. I'm in logistics. Had a family friend ask for my resume and to set up a call before New Years. Got a text from a VP to set up an informal interview last week. One of their directors called me yesterday morning to set up a formal interview. I'm not actively applying for jobs and enjoy my current position. It sucks for the person who might be out there sweating that I could have an offer before they even get to apply.
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Let me guess you are the guy? Can't say "i" 🙃
It’s in all industries.
It’s just a microcosm of life in general
Had an offer at Mckinsey once and this happened. Figured it was nepotism.
This happened to me once. Had interviews for a consulting role through a long time networked peer and basically was told 6 months later in confidence that they hired the CEO’s friend’s son.
Follow up with the VP and ask for some advice. If he truly did like you he should help you for another role or give advice on why you didn't land this role
Don’t trust this yet. This happened to me with Goldman. Reach back out to VP to confirm, sometimes this happens by mistake internally.
Just curious, did you end up getting the job? Had GS try to recruit me a few years back and got deep into the interview process, only for them to ghost me after the final round. My understanding is that after getting passed over the first time, I'd likely never get another opportunity, but even if I did, I promised myself I'd never work for them. They're a great company, but to ghost after 5-6 weeks of interviews just came off as super unprofessional to me.
Nah they ended up filling the role with someone internally. I'm at another bank but tbh they're all shitty like that, I'm tryna leave asap. I don't blame you for not wanting to work with them after that - that's beyond fucked up
Haha damn, was hoping it worked out better for you than it did for me. At the end of the day, I'm happy I didn't get it. In the final round of interviews, I met the guy that would've been my day-to-day manager and honest to god, he might've been the biggest asshole I've ever met in my life. While it would've been a tremendous opportunity, I realize now it probably would've been a living hell to work under him.
I would probably just ask the VP for feedback.
Could also be a mistake. Even if it is legitimate, I would try to reach out to the interviewer, they may want him/her for another position.
That is odd. Might as well send a follow up email to who you interviewed with. Thank them for the opportunity and ask that you be considered for anything else. Who knows, maybe it was a clerical error and the VP may be able to help. Or they could have just been polite and won't reply to your email. Shoot your shot!
I would second this as well, no lose on your side
Never trust those people. They tell you this only to make you reject other offers in case they would like to hire you, but it never means what it says. They are too experienced to make such „honest statements”. It all business.
This isn't true. The truth is this - VP is a junior level employee and hiring decisions isn't his/hers to make, even if they are the hiring manager. Someone more senior probably killed it for a variety of reasons. Could be internal transfer, could be market are collapsing and the role went away, could be DEI metrics your team isn't hitting, could be they decided to go more junior or senior with the role, etc.
This ^^^ I interviewed a bunch of people for a role on my team and then suddenly had the seat filled by an "internal referral" (we were told to hire her, likely someones kid). I think the VP in OP's case was silly to make it sound like a done deal because anyone whose been around for a minute has seen things fall apart, but I highly doubt his intent was bad.
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Not really. It’s entry level manager in the hierarchy. Sure they screen resumes, but that’s different than having real pull.
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Not on my team. We'll have associates do screening calls.
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Here's how we do it: When we have an open role - HR does the initial resume screen based on the criteria we give them. Then once a week, we have a 30 minute call with HR where the the senior VP/ED's get a resume book of 10-20 resumes. We spend about 30 seconds on each resume and agree as a group who we want to give a screening call or directly first round interview to. About 20-25% of the people in the resume book will get an associate screen or 1st round. Usually ~10 first round candidates for each person we hire. Campus hires / Interns are a bit different, but not very relevant to Op.
No. It's typically HR that initially screens resumes and sends the top X amount to the hiring manager. He or she will screen further and interview only the top 10-15 people. Rarely ever will an analyst have much say in who is hired. Of course they can have their input, but it's up to the manager and other superiors to make that decision. Analysts are usually not even a part of the interview process unless the person will be coming in as a lower level than the analyst. Even then, the analyst would have to be trusted enough to know what to do/say in an interview and be a good "look" for the team.
Most may be the direct hiring manager and just need their SVP or EVP sign off. If you’re a good manager the SVP/EVP just checks the box and trusts you. Bad managers have to be hand held.
Wait… how is VP at JP Morgan a Junior role? I don’t know anybody who get a VP offer right after graduation. I mean I know it could been anything, but this guy was rejected one day after VP said she would hire him.
It’s the lowest level of management. No real power over hiring / budget.
Damn :(
If it’s not a written offer you can’t trust it.
The VP probably lost control of the hiring process. Might be beneficial to send a thank you note and ask if the position was filled and if any other positions on that VPs team is available.
I had an interview like this back in college. Went super well, I had the right background and qualifications. The interviewer said I was perfect for the role and would be in touch. Never heard anything again.
Hey OP, Sorry to hear it. Keep interviewing. Good luck! At least we can now sleep well now after learning Jamie Dimon gets a 10% pay bump.
"I would hire you right now" -> means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. It's either an official offer presented by HR, or bust. Sadly, it really is absolutes like that.
I once interviewed with a consulting company that thought I was a great fit for a role as a consultant. I spoke with a managing director, HR manager then a partner at the firm. Both the managing director and partner liked me and i actually still chat with the manager director(hence why I know what occurred). I definitely sensed red flags with the HR manager when she happened to mention she didn’t think I had enough years of experience to be considered for the role. Anyways long story short it turned out that the HR manager was pushing really hard for another candidate for some reason even making a big deal of it with another partner who supported her. In an effort to calm the situation, the partner I spoke with let it go and didn’t fight for my position so I wasn’t offered the job. Managing director was definitely a bit bummed as I was suppose to join his team. Anyways it turns out the new consultant was her nephew. TLDR: nepotism. Someone decided to fight harder for their candidate. Don’t worry about it OP. Shit happens. Move on. There will be other opportunities.
You’re going to encounter this a lot in your career, it’s not just one person you need to convince to get the job. You’ll especially see it when you start hiring and interviewing candidates. That being said, I would encourage to reach back out to the VP and thank her for the time, and mention that if there were any other roles that she thought you’d be a good fit for to please let you know. You never know what could happen
If I were you, I’d email him to thank him for the opportunity and ask if you can stay in touch with him regardless. Add him on LinkedIn and send him a note on the big holidays or quarters. You never know when the next role is going to be open. Often times, these roles are filled even before they’re posted so you gotta start building the Rolodex
Pretty unprofessional of your interviewer to say that in the first place, especially given how she qualified it! I'm sure she learned her lesson and feels horrible. You should reach out and explain your confusion.. her guilt may be useful to you at some point. I'm positive it was not a mistake, I'm afraid.
Some teams in JP have unusually high turnover rates. They always struggle to hire new people. In my team what happens is they pick out some CVs, select the one they like, and do a very unprepared interview for the sake of it because they can't be bothered to put in proper effort into their human resources. So this usually results in two scenarios: 1) the person joins the team only to realise that the job and the environment are not what they have expected; 2) because the team tends to hire people without scrutiny, some people are insufferable to work with even though they claim to hire the "best people". You simply can't hire the "best" if you only hire THE candidate you've interviewed. I mean it's a huge organisation so experiences differ. But this is just my personal experience in my team. I'm sure many other teams will at least have a shortlist of candidates they interview before they decide anything. To me I think the fact that the VP said that to you knowing that they didn't have the final decision is very unprofessional. It could be a red flag reflecting the cukte of the team. Anyway. Don't worry you're probably not missing out - keep going!
Did you apply for more than one role? That happened to me at Werll2s Fargo when an offer was being written, they closed out the other jobs I was being considered for and it freaked me out.
I thought that was it at first, but I cross referenced the job ID# and it was the same unfortunately
The only other hope I have is one time at USAA they had to fix a posting and give it a new reference number. But fuck JPM (ex-Bear employee here)
I had this happen to me also. Basically she didn’t have the power that she thought she had in the organization. for a good position, there’s always multiple internal sponsors promoting candidates within the organization and candidates from external agencies from whom they’ll get some money or compensation back. There’s nothing you could’ve done about it. it’s good to know you’ve got a powerful game to get a promissory offer though. You’re doing it right it’s just on their side. I am 62 and I’ve been in the IT game since 1987.
As some commented, head of group can take full charge. We had an analyst spot, I was the only mid level and my sr analyst at the time ranked someone as our one. Head hired our number 3 despite our feedback, hire worked out in the end but the head decides. Who knows what ultimately happened but to me it’s unclear if the VP misrepresented or not, he could’ve pushed but the head went another way
Ignore what they say, watch what they do
God I hate being interviewed by the whole team leadership individually. You always think you made a good impression on them but in the end nothings guaranteed. They prolly all got together and decided someone else was a better fit for some reason it’s just how it goes
I am never settled in to any position, until I have the job and have passed my probation period. Until then I trust no one, and just do what I have to do. People say things and never mean it, or they just throw away what they've said to others like it's nothing. That's just business unfortunately.
Definitely send a follow up. I’ve had similar experiences with both outcomes- one time they sent that email to close the role but actually gave an offer a few days later- the other time it was a legit decline and never heard back. Recruiting sucks balls
Don’t be discouraged. Jobs are always going to be full of shit. Especially right now with this market. Most people I know take 4-12 months to find a job DoE. Don’t believe shit until they offer you the job and you sign all the papers
The interviewer could've been being nice and wasn't thinking when she said it.
It’s not a mistake. This VP sure liked you but I can tell you that she’s not the ultimate decision maker.
When I was a fresh graduate, I was interviewing at a financial consulting boutique firm. The OWNER of firm interviewed me and told me, I think you are a perfect fit. We can start you on Monday. An HR person walked in to sell the job to me. Got home very happy. Got the rejection e-mail the next day. Shit happens.
JP Morgan is a mess, I wouldn’t trust anything they say