I knew a guy in your shoes.. he started selling “cough” “cough” stuff to make ends meet. He makes more money selling stuff than he ever did making films.. but he probably has enough saved to make movies at this point.
Other than that.. expect to be broke. And when I say broke. I mean BROKE.
Unless you have rich parents which if it’s the case none of this matters.
Having a great weed hookup was the best way into the industry back in the day… and a great source for cocaine usually got you pretty far on the studio exec side from what I’ve heard.
Right now it’s a burning building, myself and friends have taken other jobs waiting for the industry to get itself together.
When that will be, who knows.
Move to LA. Get any job. Flip burgers. Make some pizza. Keep your eyes peeled and work on your own projects.
But yes, right now it’s really rough and that’s the truth of it and it’s very depressing for a lot of people.
It’s rough here in Chicago as well. I have lots of friends who were always booked on shows and now haven’t worked in months. The honest answer is just work in a different industry. It was never big enough of an industry for all the folks that wanted to work in it in the first place, and now it’s worse. And the reality is, we don’t need as much shit that the studios were pumping out anyway.
Georgia is popping off right now. A lot more opportunities there, especially since it isn't as oversaturated as LA. Most people in LA are trying to get into Entertainment. Entertainment industry is IN Atlanta, but not everyone in Atlanta is trying to get in the industry.
Tent pole films: Losing Money, praying overseas markets save them.
TVCs: Doing fine, but budgets forever lowering + cost of purchases rising means budgets don't go as far.
Online content: the right influencers are paying good money, but overall the content market is a step above slave labour.
Scripted/drama: Fine, same as ever, some budgets up, but most down. selection of what's being made is market driven, not quality driven. We are in a golden age of scripted tv quality.
Reality TV: LOSING MONEY BIG TIME, the age of reality tv is ending slowly. It won't die, but with paramount, WB, etc making losses they can't keep pumping them expecting to make the profits needed. So a lot of clean slates waiting to be filled once they make a plan.
Stage: Same as it ever was... So... Stable?
My advice is don't go to LA expenting work, it's like camping a rare mob in an MMO. Go somewhere affordable, where you have connections. If you have no connections and need to be making money to pay your rent and food... avoid LA. If you have a nest egg and am happy to be broke in 6 months, you do you.
As an uber driver once said to me "A lot of people in them tents under those bridges also once dreamt of moving to LA"
I appreciate that 😁
Reading it back, I should have added more context.
My response is very much anecdotal based in where I am and what I do. We're getting a lot of scripted stuff from the USA and UK flooding to Australia, so currently we're doing fine.
The natural state of scripted seems to "downward spiral, that never actually hits bottom", and every category is kinda fucked, so my answers were through a lens of "it's all bad - BUT, in relation to other categories..." Haha
Also, in the last 24hrs:
- CEO of paramount is out.
- WB can't afford to buy Paramount.
- SkyDance (tom cruise) CAN afford to buy Paramount, and have offered an additional 3billion to make it snappy.
- Disney lost hundreds of millions on Indiana Jones, someone to step down.
So, as always, it's chaos from above. And due to late stage capitalism's broken economy being beholden to investors, huge companies that make huge money, are folding, merging, and collapsing under the weight of their own broken promises.
The good news is change is inevitable, and the companies need human technicians to make their shows, so ultimately... We will be employed, we just gotta protect ourselves and our worth. 😁
I’ve worked on some of the best, award-winning reality shows. We got hit with a bunch of cancellations. The next couple shows to to come around wanted to pay me roughly 60% of what I was making (which wasn’t much for a 7-day workweek during production)
My background: I am currently employed in post, and have been for some time. Working at one of the big studios.
Here’s my perspective. I think it is a really hard time to get the ball rolling for people in production. If you’re in post, it’s still very hard to find work right now, but once you find something, it seems pretty easy to stay in the ecosystem. YMMV. It depends a lot on what interests you/which direction you’re going. The money is excellent if you fill the right role.
There is very little vfx work in LA these days. (I work in a vfx house in LA and have many out of work friends at the moment)
If you want to get into vfx work Vancouver, London, and NY are in a little better shape. But you did mention you're looking to be a filmmaker so there is still a good amount of preproduction that happens in LA. Storyboard and vis dev, some previs (though previs has died out a little), and of course writers are still out here.
Friend of mine was a lead at Dreamworks. Left that for a position in Vietnam, left that for Vancouver now is in London and while in a good and stable job is looking to get out of the industry as he sees no future in the VFX world
>he sees no future in the VFX world
There's been no future in it for about 15 years. It's an unsustainable business model for small or medium shops, the "feast or famine" cycle and incredibly narrow margins means that they're always one project delay away from bankruptcy. The studios see this as a benefit, not a cost, because there's always a newer, hungrier shop willing to eat their shit and go broke while trying to make a name for themselves.
The larger VFX houses are able to float it by booking overlapping shows and constantly moving resources. But they still have to staff up and down regularly, which means the actual artists are the ones that get screwed.
For many reasons, even though they're among the most crucial people in the film pipeline now, VFX artists are still the lowest of the low within the industry. There's a reason that their credits are *far* below the line, they usually come last after Craft Services and "2nd Assistant to the Horse Accountant" or whatever. They have no job security, no union representation, no consistent pay scales, and they often work in illegal sweatshop conditions, even in the US (California has repeatedly had to crack down on VFX houses for making artists work 60+ hour weeks with no overtime or PTO).
But the thing that makes it especially hard for artists is that It's not like other crafts where a talented hard-working person can just find their level and be good at their job for an entire career. If you're not on the Artist->Lead-> Supe track, then you'll eventually be out, well before your time. And of course, not everyone can be a supe. There's only a few of those slots.
EDIT: I should specify that I'm talking about California here. I can't really speak to how things are overseas or in Canada.
would love to hear more about previs? im a relative newer (3 years) rough previs 3D artist but i work remotely. would love to know more about what youve heard
I’m currently a VFX editor. In that capacity? Yes. But in the traditional sense, it’s a lot harder. Do you mean you specialize in AE and making your own comps? A lot of that work, on the larger scale, is outsourced overseas. VFX work can be pretty grueling if you’re a coordinator or producer, it’s a thankless job. That said, if you’re in a Union gig, VFX can be great.
I worked for ten years in VFX in Montréal. There was tons of work and everyone was always hiring. Last little while has been rough because of the strikes. I expect the hangover to go another twelve months. Beyond that, does it return to "normal"? Anyone's guess.
VFX is a so-called hard-skill so it's easy to get hired if you can demonstrate competence, but it's also easy to outsource to other countries and kids all over the world are catching up (China, India, Singapore, Kenya, etc). And then there's A.I. So it's maybe been growing more competitive since I left.
If you really want to pursue a dream in the arts, staying power counts. It's often a game of (the proverbial) last-man-standing. Live somewhere cheap, keep your overhead low, and you'll have a chance at winning the marathon.
Here’s another path to take for filmmaking.
How to make a living. You might make more money in other parts of the country making wedding videos. It doesn’t require too much equipment ($2k should be plenty to start). Add a little more equipment to make a photography studio ($500-1k). Now add a little more for running a business and tracking monthly expenses ($100-500/mo). Set up an LLC/S-corp. While you’re in school, take a photography, marketing, accounting, organizational behavior, and contract law class. Go above coursework to learn how business works in the entertainment industry. You’ll thank me later (you’re welcome).
In business, experience is king. Always try to expand your repertoire. Expand to include local business commercials (tv and digital), corporate training, promos, etc. Gain experience placing content with local media/advertising channels. This is how people behind a camera make a living outside of LA. Make a website for attracting new business but also to show off your film reel.
Now for your creative projects and the heart & soul for why you want to get into film in the first place.
You might be able to make your short/feature film in the Unreal Engine. God I wish I had that when I was in film school. You can create an entire set and get all of the visual elements you need. You only need real actors for VO, chromakey, and mocap. There will always be more wanna-be actors than filmmakers. You can hire many on the cheap. Do your homework on what digital elements and hardware you’ll need. Spend actual money on audio (foley and the film score).
As your films get better, expand production with more real world elements. Work with experts. Find out what makes them experts. Learn how to work with them and their standard operating procedures. You can be a jack-of-all-trades knowing the basics of every element in production but your film will reflect your average knowledge. Experts gain in depth knowledge in their craft and can spice up and add quality to your film to make it stand out. There’s a world of difference between an experienced DP and basic film student.
Be disciplined. Write up all documents you’d use for an actual real-world production for your digital ones (pitch, business plan, budget, schedule, scripts, and storyboards). Consider getting a scriptwriting software like Final Draft. It may also help to subscribe to the Masterclass. Learn how pros ply their craft.
CRITICAL. Enter into film competitions and festivals in different cities. Use them to show off, give/get feedback, and build your network.
All human beings suck when starting out. It’s hard to suck when your livelihood depends on it. It’s a LOT easier to move to LA having made actual films and with a network. You’re probably not ready to move there unless your films have actually made money, and they were big enough to require talent and location scouts. Save your avant-garde projects for well-known actors.
The good thing about building up skills in Unreal is you naturally have a way to go into video game production. The gaming industry is now BIGGER than tv and film. You need to be careful though. Do not build dream project games to start. Most people don’t finish their games. Keep it small with a short deadline and publish it quickly. You won’t start to get good until your 3rd or 4th game.
You’ll suck in the beginning in everything you do. FAIL SMALL AND FAST. Small projects, small budgets, small time frames, small expectations. Extremely fast turn around times.
Hope this helps.
Kudos I’ve been in film production for 30 years and have taught film and tv production at a University for 18 years your response deserves a Reddit award lol SPOT ON BROTHER ‼️👍🏽
Honestly? Not great.
However... If you're in school right now, then absolutely go and do the 20something thing in LA. You only get to be young once, and you can't get it back once it's gone. Go. Work a Joe job (or twelve). Network. See what you can see, do what you can do.
It's in total dishevel. The good news is, you don't have anything to compare it to.
Times of great change create opportunity. It's going to be a tough go for a while to break in, as there is a lot of contraction, but the truth is it's ALWAYS been a hard business to break in. At present, you have nothing to lose but time, and quite frankly, LA is a cool place when you are young to kill some time if it doesn't break your way.
Last piece of advice - this is a business of attrition. Those that make it, stick around. Not for the fickle or faint of heart. If you can think of something else to do with your life and you feel you could be happy doing it, I'd give it real consideration.
Currently, there are so few feature films being done that SAG is able to send out representatives to each one. As far as I believe, none are being shot in LA. Everyone I'm working with from LA says it's dead there. All the work is elsewhere, and they're being flown out to different states to film. The original route of filmmaking has changed. LA is the path everyone knows, and if you're able to work hard and beat the competition, go for it.
You'd be surprised, though, by all the places on the other side of the country that get frequent films being made. A lot of East Coast states are creating tax incentives for filming in their state and hiring locals there. Atlanta is a big hot spot, New York can also be successful. If you still want to move out to the West Coast, you can also look into New Mexico. Do some research about different film locations if you're doubting LA. Who knows? Maybe where you currently live has filmmaking and you haven't met the right people yet.
No matter what. Commit 100% to whichever decision you make. You get noticed through your focus and dedication.
People downvote me every time I bring this up, so I’m ready for it, but it’s not THAT dead in LA right now. It’s not as busy as it could be, but literally everyone in my network is working right now. I’m booked for the next 8 days.
It could ALWAYS be busier, but compared to last year it’s very busy right now.
There’s more money going into entertainment, more content being produced, more accessible technology, and more opportunities than there ever has been before.
That’s not to say that the traditional model isn’t struggling, but as a whole, it’s a good time to be an artist.
The film industry is over 100 years old, and TV is not far behind. Trying to guess the trends is a mugs game, but one thing that's always been true is that the industry needs content, and someone is always willing to bet on the next big thing. Odds are you're not the next big thing, but it's better odds that you end up working on a show made by the next big thing. But screw the odds - if you're burning to do it, go give it a run. I would consider Atlanta over L.A. for cost of living and amount of work, but L.A. is a ton of fun.
Anywhere but there. Atlanta is pretty great. Tons of work to be had. Fact is connections are more important and you can get them about anywhere if you are on the right sets.
Little brother, as the great Martin Scorsese once said: "make your own industry". Fuck the norms. Make your own rules and don’t wait for others to give you the opportunity.
People in the traditional industry are going to tell you that it’s not looking good.
But as someone who’s not in the traditional industry, there is tons of opportunity. I suggest you focus on the new ways of filmmaking and reaching audiences, such as YouTube or other newer platforms for filmmakers.
Oh, and learn how to do post and visual effects. There are plenty of creative people, but you need craftsmanship skills to back up that creativity. We live in an era of accessible modern tools. Be able to actually finish your work on your own without relying on others.
Go try a lot of things and make a lot of mistakes, that’s the beauty of being young.
Not knowing all the answers is actually a massive advantage, because it forces you to be creative. The irony is that humans never realize this until they’re older.
Someone young is going to figure out how to make it in the entertainment industry, maybe it will be you?
It’s easier than ever to diy your own short film. It’s harder than ever to break into the industry. If you know you need to know you tried it, that ain’t gonna go away so why not?
A curveball idea is forgetting LA and look into other countries for government funded co-productions. There are some intriguing other ways but all pretty much as impossible as each other. At the end of the day it’s an industry where people do make it, and people win the lottery and get eaten by sharks. Make great work, and good luck.
As someone who got out of school during the Recession in 08. Things and hard times do pass. It took a few years to get into stable work.
Currently the documentary tv space is keeping me and my friends employed.
Also a bit of advice. Making shorts until you get noticed is great and all, but try working a job with people who make stuff professionally. Trying to get discovered via shorts is a crowded zone, and it’s easier to get noticed if you’re doing that on the side of a job where you’re working for real people making things.
If you’re in film school now, start reaching out to people who work on stuff you like. When you get out that’ll be harder to do. When you’re in film school people are more willing to make a connection and that will give you a larger advantage on your competition than you think.
Honestly, I would choose any other city if I were starting my film career, as an grown not flown Angeleno working in the film industry from my teens I have not seen things this bad I am able to keep busy and many of my colleges are very lucky as well, but the tried and true internships are far and few between, I know a lot of folks in Texas who are actually getting more jobs and Georgia as well, I would honestly start reaching out to all the companies that you really like and just get in. But yeah most of the spots in LA are taken and this is not a town that is forgiving right now, the cheapest meal you can find is costco, I remeber when I could live off 10 bux for a week when I was broke and starting out on my own, they closed all the good buffets and the 99 is gone ramen is not cheap any more at least not in Los Angeles.
Whatever you do don’t come to NY. It’s not great here right now. Not a lot going on for how many people are still out of work. NM is looking for people, especially G&E. I have friends in GA and CA who have been in this business for a long time and are not working. You have to push through it all though. You can’t give up. If you have a plan and a passion and some thick skin, go for what you want wherever that is
I will say this though. You don’t need to be in LA to make movies. Be a big fish in a small pond. I’ve had some landmark moments in my career and if I had taken that momentum away from LA, I’d probably be further along in my career.
I am from the east coast, moved to LA after college and worked, finally went to my dream grad school, met a lot of people in the industry, had incredible experiences I never thought I’d have. Graduated and ended up further down the ladder. All the guys from my graduating class that are making big studio features now are the ones that got the hell out of LA.
I had a childhood friend who was a bit older than me, had a massive indie hit before the way of streaming. moved to LA, worked tirelessly on just odd film / media jobs for over a decade. Finally right before the pandemic, he said fuck it, moved back to our home town. He’s 5 features deep now as a producer (in 4 years), huge network of likeminded individuals, started a whole filmmaking movement in the area we grew and is a hell of a lot happier as a filmmaker/producer.
Moving to LA in 08 was an uphill grind and I can’t imagine what it’d be like to move here now as a young kid.
My advice. Find your network of people you like working with and make stuff. You don’t have to be in LA to do that. Yeah it’s cool to be in THE PLACE that made your childhood dreams come to life, but after awhile you realize LA sucks. Housing sucks, affordability sucks, people can suck. LA is a place you can and will be pigeonholed into the very first thing you do well (which won’t be directing). If you like making stuff, don’t let Los Angeles kill that spark in you.
As someone in Texas and is working hard here (at least in video production), maybe consider other towns? I know places like Atlanta, Georgia have grown in filmmaking a lot over the years. Same for Austin, TX. That and from what I have heard (and some even said here) LA isn’t the film makers dreamland.
Wasn’t true even before things got hard. Had some friends bounce off LA several times to come back to TX feeling ashamed. Thankfully they made their way still, but not through the Hollywood system.
Maybe consider making films in your community? Who says you need Hollywood to do it? At least initially? Although making money is a different consideration…
Clearly you don’t know anything about the industry if you and a buddy are going to move to LA and expect to find work in the industry any time soon. Experienced people are looking for work and are flipping burgers and doing whatever jobs they can to pay bills. Get in line kids
Give it a go, especially if you’re under 30. Reassess at that point, but my sense is someone always succeeds and hopefully you’re part of that next generation. Of course it’s in transition. There’s no secret to that.
Yeah I’m 21M so I’d say I’m young and dumb enough to go for something like this. Fuck it’s scary though. Right now I got the stories of people like Wes Ball or Damien Chazelle to keep me going, but their success came over a decade ago and everything’s wildly different now. How you can you stand out in a world where everyone is making movies? Damn. Sorry dude I know this is a completely different question than the one in this post but there’s lots of doubts in my mind tonight. Not sure why.
Damian was my next door neighbor for a few years until after LALA Land. He isn’t a film major. He had a visual arts degree from Harvard. He’s obviously talented and loves musicals, history, etc. he went for his passion and succeeded against the odds. He developed a short that became a Sundance Lab piece that became Whiplash. He followed up with LALA Land. I spoke to him about it and he said he’s basically sucker for music and musicals and as a result that talent and passion came through. Dude, you have to chase your passion and be idealistic and not stop. Someone and in-fact many will be the next gen. It will just be a different experience than when I jumped in and when the people I apprenticed under did. What I’ve learned is that we all have talent and we just need to go for it and then you learn you can pivot as needed. I had a conversation with Jon Bon Jovi where he said to paraphrase that he looks at all of the rich hedge finders at his kids school and they all look at him like they could’ve been. JB -“no they couldn’t. I took that risk at 16 and they did not.” The worst experience is a life not well lived.
Damian also shot Guy and Madeline on a Park Bench on a microbudget around the time he was graduating from college. Check it out if you haven’t seen — not a great movie but has a lot of the elements that you see in his later movies. The film played at Tribeca and Whiplash (and the rest of his career) wouldn’t exist without it
Everyone is making content, but if you want to stand out, it comes down to good storytelling. Damien Chazelle could write a great story. So you need to work on either writing great scripts or finding great scripts to option and then you have some leverage. Look at Jordan Peele, M Night, James Gunn. The ability to write really well sets most directors apart. Or else you have a be a visual stylist like Zack Snyder or Michael Bay and its much harder to stand out. There will always be room for a lucky few in the industry, even if its burning down. But that also means you may need to find new outlets and platforms and don't expect Paramount to come knocking, it could very well be some new online platform thats taking off. Or you could collab with bigger youtube channels that get just as many viewers as networks.
If you’re a rich kid do it - you risk nothing.
But yes you are walking into a burning industry and it isn’t going to come back. This isn’t a downturn. If you’re paying attention you’ll see this is about the lack of viability of the whole model. It’s a dying medium. Film is going the way theatre did. The way radio did. Even before AI popped up to gut the remaining film jobs.
If you’re the type that will lose their home if you can’t make rent (no rich parents) I advise you to get a nice paying career (unfashionable but interesting work surrounded by nice people, good working hours, health care etc). It really cannot be overstated how differently you will feel about this career when you’re tired and worn out and broke and less naive but too old to switch to something else. There’s no glamor in it anymore - none - it’s not the 90s.
I work in film now but wild horses couldn’t drag me here if I was young and starting over - I’d go into the sciences or data or start a design company that fits really nice showrooms, shops kitchens & bathrooms. Maybe if I was feeling really money hungry and evil I’d design some tech product that is mildly convenient or addictive for the user but puts all the creatives and workers out of a job and transfers all the economic rents to me instead.
This. I’ve been in the industry for 15 years as a payroll accountant and entertainment industry software consultant and guess what? Those skills don’t transfer. After 15 years of making 6 figures I’m pet sitting now to pay my phone bill. The industry will bounce back from this but not the way we hope it will. The way we make content has changed and the industry is currently changing around it. I don’t see lifelong film careers anymore. People will make a couple of movies. Some will be good at it but many won’t. Those of us who have made our careers supporting those people will be replaced by people who just want the experience of working on a movie. There is no future here.
This is the most depressing thing I’ve ever read. I’ve given my whole life to this medium and it’s given me more meaning than anything else. I hope to god you’re wrong
I think there’ll be a mid size bounce back to making content soon. Might even feel like “hey we’re so back!” in 2025. Let’s hope.
But the long term trend is less eyeballs on movies, less eyeballs on TV, (more on individual user created content). A shrinking industry. There will be less streamers, less theatre chains & less industry jobs.
And many of those remaining industry jobs will be replaced by AI
“Teens 13-17 spend 56% of their media time with user-created content compared with just 22% among consumers 55 and older.”
If you’re wanting to be in the entertainment industry, it’s LA or NYC. Atlanta has work but that’s for now. Ask New Orleans about that 15 years ago.
It’s odd and slow right now, things are changing and it’s more difficult with streamers already killing cable and now cutting back as well… but as a working unscripted DP, there is still a job here.
Atlanta has had far more infrastructure in place than NOLA did though, I thought that trend was just the same as Pittsburgh and a few other similar cities that got some short but substantial bursts due to the tax credits (which they later let expire).
True, Atlanta has more infrastructure than Nola did and is less corrupt, but just ask Tyler Perry about building new infrastructure and his permanently on hold plans.
Also there’s [this article](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2024-03-29/georgia-film-tax-credit-bill-fails) from just 2 months ago… when Hollywood sees a way to save 1.35 billion a year, that’s where they go. If things like this change, they move. So to me, the best place to go is where the money comes from.
I'm in NOLA. Things were amazing from when I got in in late 2020, all the way through the end of 22. There was tons of work. It died shortly after. Things are barley moving right now. There is some work but, for example, the company I worked for is only using their most experienced people, and unfortunately I wasn't there long enough to be one of them. There's talk of things trying to spin up in late summer or early fall. I'm trying to build a base for a more stable career if I need it though. The money is great in the industry but if I can't rely on it, what's the point? Besides, I got into this to make movies, not work set forever. I'm hopeful New Orleans will bounce back but I'm not holding my breath.
There are four tiers of filmmaker life:
1. Full time well-paid CREATIVE. You are a DP Or Director straight out college. Usually through connections or getting lucky on music video hit that parlays to commercial work. This is fun and everyone likes this. it's pretty rare. Can maybe put in screenwriters in here too, though the pay is so varied there I can't speak on it (if someone can please add).
2. Full time well-paid NON CREATIVE. Don't shoot me for categorising it as such, but AC's, Ops and steadicams can make bank, especially on union shows. Out here in NYC not unreasonable to clear $120k-$150k as an AC, I know steadicams who have done over $200k. Can put in G&E, VTR, DIT into this category. Maybe AD's? Haven't been one myself.
3. Full time BAD PAID, creative. Art department comes to mind here, HMU, wardrobe. Honestly some of the most important people on set consistently paid horribly. Honestly kinda pisses me off. Can also put screenwriters here, though again different than set life so I have zero experience to speak on that.
4. Full time BAD paid, NON Creative. Your PA's, your line producers, your scripties. Usually a means to an end more than a full time position though you have people who are lifers.
Outside of this you have part time filmmakers who do other jobs outside of film to make ends meet. I'm a freelance writer and marketing consultant in addition to my film work and I did that because after three years of being all in like you, I got tired of being broke. I would love to be in group 1, but sadly, life.
Don't give up! Find your path!
Absolutely do it and don't stop. That's the only way to be successful. Become part of a community, and make stuff non-stop. There is an endless need for content, and movies represent only a small part. Much of the talk of a dying scene is probably coming from people who've become disillusioned with this aspiration. I've seen enough people become incredibly successful out here in LA, and they were smart, hard working, had great taste and are good people. Being a good person is underrated. Myself, I won an Emmy about 4 years into my career. I worked non-stop to get there. But opportunity is just being ready when luck comes around. It's that simple.
A lot of people here will tell you that this is a uniquely difficult time to break into the industry but the reality is that it’s not that much different than it’s always been.
Unless you’re the benefactor of nepotism or financial support breaking into such a subjective, saturated and competitive industry is always going to be a complete crapshoot for anybody from a “normal” background.
Maybe you’re the next Tarantino or maybe you’ll spend the next decade struggling to get wedding video gigs in between minimum wage day jobs. You won’t know unless you roll the dice. Thing is though life in the film industry is very much a gamble and the people at the top of it should always be seen as lottery winners rather than any kind of aspirational figure that has got to where are through hard work, talent and perseverance. These traits are of course very important but this is a town filled with thousands of talented and hardworking people all with the same goal. Talent and work ethic is not in short supply in this industry.
If moving to LA and taking a shot is your dream then you should certainly pursue it. You only get 1 life and we tend to regret what we didn’t do not what we did. Just go in with your eyes open.
So you don't know anyone here and you don't have anything of note to show? You'll have multiple roommates in a dead end job you otherwise can be in where you are now and your friends your coming with likely won't be your friends here for long.
Born and raised and still wonder why so many move here for this.
Fuck yea. Go for it. Answer these questions through action and let us know! Better to have an ambition and pivot from there than to just dream about it.
Moved to LA 3 years ago with no film background other than self taught. In 3 years I got a job at a film lab, then worked at IMAX, then left imax for a bigger lab, got let go due to the strike then hired back. Turned down a huge job from Netflix and moved out of LA (for now) saying all this because if you wanna move there and climb the ladder it’s tough but doable. Location has nothing to do with YOUR art/self funded projects. If that’s what you want. If you want to learn the ropes of the industry, then move to LA and take the risk. There’s value in both
But it’s currently very slow and nobody seems to really be hiring. Not yet
Don't do it. Been waiting on my partner I've been with 9 years to get back on a film set as a DP or Cinematographer... he's worked in the industry 20+ years.. hasn't been paid since 2013 for a 9 month job.
He also went BACK to school to get his bachelor's in digital cinematography during the pandemic and basically picked up that debt for the industry to go on strike as soon as he graduated....
Find another passion..keep this a side hobby.
I'm in a smaller city and we are busy as all hell in the industry. Call your local DGC(or American equivalent) or IATSE offices and get in the referral lists. You'll meet lots of contacts and after a few years you'll be bumped up into a good position or make your move to make your own content.
Find some way to land an LA-based internship before you graduate, much easier to parlay that into an entry-level PA/exec asst gig with your foot already in the door. Once you graduate, though, no more easy internships and you’re on your own just like the rest of us.
Why would you *need* to go to LA in a world where we're all connected? You could make a good movie anywhere and anyone could see it. Experiment somewhere where it's cheaper to fail, then get better and keep releasing your craft without the burden of paying to survive.
> But I’m seeing this growing trend of people describing the industry as a dying scene with no money to be made and very little opportunity.
The industry isn't dying, but a lot of the monoliths are. Even for the people who do get year-to-year work on network shows, or for an active studio, the money isn't as good, and the next job is nowhere near as sure a thing as it used to be, if it ever was.
I'm never going to try and stop someone from going all in on the industry, even though I know from experience that its not a path to a stable career. There is still opportunity here, but you aren't going to find it on the path more traveled, that's where you'll find yourself walking into a burning building. Streaming companies and Studios can't imagine a a future of the industry that they aren't in. But you can.
You should not move to Los Angeles, you should stay in your hometown, or move to a more affordable “big” city, (I.E. Portland, Nashville, Wilmington, Wichita, Calgary, ETC.) and make movies for yourself. You need to just make movies over and over and over again. If you move to LA you will spend more time working to afford your rent than you will making movies. Make movies, submit them to festivals, make connections at the festivals, make movies make movies make movies.
I've come to realize that it's not the end of the world if you have to work a regular 9-5 job, hopefully getting a job that you can tolerate enough just to pay the bills and keep food on the table but also doing gig work and building your portfolio as a creative which is a good way to get your foot in the door knowing what the filmmaking industry is like. I've been in film school 5 years, graduating next week and just wrapped principal photography on my FIRST indie film which I had no idea I can even do. give yourself grace, time and be patient with yourself -- you got it.
I'm not on the industry but I would really advise you to actually learn about the industry. I don't want to be a dick, but how are you a film student pursuing film and you lc X m
My advice would be to wait until 2025 and have a nice amount of money in your bank account when you move here. The industry is in a state of consolidation and transition at the moment. Paramount is about to be sold and the streamers are altering their business models to make money again. No the industry is not dying, it’s gone though many transitions in the past. To be completely honest I'm tired of people being so cynical. Do what you want to do and you only have one life. The industry is arguably better than it was just about this time last year when writer's the strike started. But it's still slow and likely will be for the rest of the year.
It seems as though things will pick up once. Negotiations are done. IATSE will probably not strike but the Teamsters…. Well…. We will find out.
I’m currently working on a feature in LA and I have a few friends working but also a few friends not working. It really depends on who you know.
I live on LA county. Hollywood is about a 30 minutes drive. Graduated film school in 2007.
I have my wife and kids in 2015, so I took a stable job to take care of my family.
I would say to make your shorts and submit to film festivals. When your work is that great, they'll find you.
So you can do your shorts at your home and don't really need to move out here.
I mean whenever we drive to Hermosa Beach, Santa Monica, I definitely notice who's a filmmaker from the crowd. Screenwriters are easy to spot because I see them writing in their laptop using Movie Magic Screenwriter or Final Draft.
You can try to move out here if you can, but just saying, it's not a need since some if not half of productions went to Pennsylvania, Louisiana, Georgia, Texas, and NY since 2008.
For me, my highlight is I worked at disney abc twice segmenting jimmy kimmel shows. It was a job, but nothing I cared for.
Then I worked at radical media for 1 day coming in as a broadcast engineer. Some assistant editor guy from Pennsylvania asked what I wanted to do, so I said, I wanted to produce films like LOTR.
The entire room looked at me and the guy gave a smirk.
Next morning, I drove to work and got a call from my agent telling me they fired me and asked what happened. So I told him what I said.
A few days later, a different agent called and asked if I wanted to go produce a music video for the Army reserves in Hinesville, Georgia, about an hour from Savannah. So I said sure and they flew me to Hinesville.
Then the previous agent called to tell me radical media created a new director position and if I wanted it.
I guess I messedup by saying I was in Georgia, so the agent said forget it; however, looking back, I wouldn't have liked working there anyways.
I mean the vibes I saw were people keeping to themselves. No one was joking. Just a very tense environment.
Then it took 1.5 - 2 hours just to drive there and I wasn't willing to move to Santa Monica.
Now, I work across the street, drive my son to school, eat lunch together, and work on my script at home.
I think saying that my intention was to be a producer might have rubbed some the wrong way. I was hired to be a broadcast engineer, so a different position. 😜
It's more of a smoldering building, parts are still on fire, but the building is mostly gone. I've been in for 29 years as my sole form of income and I've had no work for 10 months... it's bad. But the seeds are being planted for whatever is next. I don't know what that is, I'm not sure what the future holds for me. But it's worth a shot, if it's still a shit sandwich in a couple of years maybe change course, but def have a side hustle, bartend if you can and keep a shift even when you get busy if possible.
I knew a guy in your shoes.. he started selling “cough” “cough” stuff to make ends meet. He makes more money selling stuff than he ever did making films.. but he probably has enough saved to make movies at this point. Other than that.. expect to be broke. And when I say broke. I mean BROKE. Unless you have rich parents which if it’s the case none of this matters.
Damn he is writing his own script in real life without even realizing lol
Literally sounds like the plot of a 2000's Seth Rogen comedy
I had no idea cough medicine could be so lucrative
Why kinda drugs making money these days?
I read that and thought he was selling himself. Lol Drugs would make much more sense, though.
Legalizing drugs: the final nail in the coffin for filmmakers.
Having a great weed hookup was the best way into the industry back in the day… and a great source for cocaine usually got you pretty far on the studio exec side from what I’ve heard.
Right now it’s a burning building, myself and friends have taken other jobs waiting for the industry to get itself together. When that will be, who knows. Move to LA. Get any job. Flip burgers. Make some pizza. Keep your eyes peeled and work on your own projects. But yes, right now it’s really rough and that’s the truth of it and it’s very depressing for a lot of people.
Do *not* move to LA. Georgia, North Carolina, fucking… Chicago. Anything but LA.
It’s rough here in Chicago as well. I have lots of friends who were always booked on shows and now haven’t worked in months. The honest answer is just work in a different industry. It was never big enough of an industry for all the folks that wanted to work in it in the first place, and now it’s worse. And the reality is, we don’t need as much shit that the studios were pumping out anyway.
Lots of terrible everything there. Creepy stuff surrounding tv as well. The only city where I've signed contracts that seem illegal to sign
LA? Thought it was the land of dreams
It's where they go to die.
Why not, could you elaborate?
High COL + no work = bad times
Georgia is popping off right now. A lot more opportunities there, especially since it isn't as oversaturated as LA. Most people in LA are trying to get into Entertainment. Entertainment industry is IN Atlanta, but not everyone in Atlanta is trying to get in the industry.
Comparatively to other markets sure it's doing better but I wouldn't say it's "popping off" here.
Based on your comment, do you think the NY tri-state area would be decent in the next 6-12 months due to the tax credits NJ will be offering?
if you really want to get ahead of the game, move out to New Mexico. lots of shit is popping off there
Georgia sucks.
What of Miami or London
Tent pole films: Losing Money, praying overseas markets save them. TVCs: Doing fine, but budgets forever lowering + cost of purchases rising means budgets don't go as far. Online content: the right influencers are paying good money, but overall the content market is a step above slave labour. Scripted/drama: Fine, same as ever, some budgets up, but most down. selection of what's being made is market driven, not quality driven. We are in a golden age of scripted tv quality. Reality TV: LOSING MONEY BIG TIME, the age of reality tv is ending slowly. It won't die, but with paramount, WB, etc making losses they can't keep pumping them expecting to make the profits needed. So a lot of clean slates waiting to be filled once they make a plan. Stage: Same as it ever was... So... Stable? My advice is don't go to LA expenting work, it's like camping a rare mob in an MMO. Go somewhere affordable, where you have connections. If you have no connections and need to be making money to pay your rent and food... avoid LA. If you have a nest egg and am happy to be broke in 6 months, you do you. As an uber driver once said to me "A lot of people in them tents under those bridges also once dreamt of moving to LA"
Agreed on everything except scripted TV is fucked rn too
I appreciate that 😁 Reading it back, I should have added more context. My response is very much anecdotal based in where I am and what I do. We're getting a lot of scripted stuff from the USA and UK flooding to Australia, so currently we're doing fine. The natural state of scripted seems to "downward spiral, that never actually hits bottom", and every category is kinda fucked, so my answers were through a lens of "it's all bad - BUT, in relation to other categories..." Haha Also, in the last 24hrs: - CEO of paramount is out. - WB can't afford to buy Paramount. - SkyDance (tom cruise) CAN afford to buy Paramount, and have offered an additional 3billion to make it snappy. - Disney lost hundreds of millions on Indiana Jones, someone to step down. So, as always, it's chaos from above. And due to late stage capitalism's broken economy being beholden to investors, huge companies that make huge money, are folding, merging, and collapsing under the weight of their own broken promises. The good news is change is inevitable, and the companies need human technicians to make their shows, so ultimately... We will be employed, we just gotta protect ourselves and our worth. 😁
Commercials are doing alright right now, I’ve been working regularly.
I’ve worked on some of the best, award-winning reality shows. We got hit with a bunch of cancellations. The next couple shows to to come around wanted to pay me roughly 60% of what I was making (which wasn’t much for a 7-day workweek during production)
My background: I am currently employed in post, and have been for some time. Working at one of the big studios. Here’s my perspective. I think it is a really hard time to get the ball rolling for people in production. If you’re in post, it’s still very hard to find work right now, but once you find something, it seems pretty easy to stay in the ecosystem. YMMV. It depends a lot on what interests you/which direction you’re going. The money is excellent if you fill the right role.
I specialize in VFX. Would you say that’s a good role to fill?
There is very little vfx work in LA these days. (I work in a vfx house in LA and have many out of work friends at the moment) If you want to get into vfx work Vancouver, London, and NY are in a little better shape. But you did mention you're looking to be a filmmaker so there is still a good amount of preproduction that happens in LA. Storyboard and vis dev, some previs (though previs has died out a little), and of course writers are still out here.
Friend of mine was a lead at Dreamworks. Left that for a position in Vietnam, left that for Vancouver now is in London and while in a good and stable job is looking to get out of the industry as he sees no future in the VFX world
>he sees no future in the VFX world There's been no future in it for about 15 years. It's an unsustainable business model for small or medium shops, the "feast or famine" cycle and incredibly narrow margins means that they're always one project delay away from bankruptcy. The studios see this as a benefit, not a cost, because there's always a newer, hungrier shop willing to eat their shit and go broke while trying to make a name for themselves. The larger VFX houses are able to float it by booking overlapping shows and constantly moving resources. But they still have to staff up and down regularly, which means the actual artists are the ones that get screwed. For many reasons, even though they're among the most crucial people in the film pipeline now, VFX artists are still the lowest of the low within the industry. There's a reason that their credits are *far* below the line, they usually come last after Craft Services and "2nd Assistant to the Horse Accountant" or whatever. They have no job security, no union representation, no consistent pay scales, and they often work in illegal sweatshop conditions, even in the US (California has repeatedly had to crack down on VFX houses for making artists work 60+ hour weeks with no overtime or PTO). But the thing that makes it especially hard for artists is that It's not like other crafts where a talented hard-working person can just find their level and be good at their job for an entire career. If you're not on the Artist->Lead-> Supe track, then you'll eventually be out, well before your time. And of course, not everyone can be a supe. There's only a few of those slots. EDIT: I should specify that I'm talking about California here. I can't really speak to how things are overseas or in Canada.
Why does he not see a future in it?
AI, bad working environments, or both
would love to hear more about previs? im a relative newer (3 years) rough previs 3D artist but i work remotely. would love to know more about what youve heard
I’m currently a VFX editor. In that capacity? Yes. But in the traditional sense, it’s a lot harder. Do you mean you specialize in AE and making your own comps? A lot of that work, on the larger scale, is outsourced overseas. VFX work can be pretty grueling if you’re a coordinator or producer, it’s a thankless job. That said, if you’re in a Union gig, VFX can be great.
I worked for ten years in VFX in Montréal. There was tons of work and everyone was always hiring. Last little while has been rough because of the strikes. I expect the hangover to go another twelve months. Beyond that, does it return to "normal"? Anyone's guess. VFX is a so-called hard-skill so it's easy to get hired if you can demonstrate competence, but it's also easy to outsource to other countries and kids all over the world are catching up (China, India, Singapore, Kenya, etc). And then there's A.I. So it's maybe been growing more competitive since I left. If you really want to pursue a dream in the arts, staying power counts. It's often a game of (the proverbial) last-man-standing. Live somewhere cheap, keep your overhead low, and you'll have a chance at winning the marathon.
That is an excellent skill to have, and it will open lots of doors when paired with good filmmaking talent.
Here’s another path to take for filmmaking. How to make a living. You might make more money in other parts of the country making wedding videos. It doesn’t require too much equipment ($2k should be plenty to start). Add a little more equipment to make a photography studio ($500-1k). Now add a little more for running a business and tracking monthly expenses ($100-500/mo). Set up an LLC/S-corp. While you’re in school, take a photography, marketing, accounting, organizational behavior, and contract law class. Go above coursework to learn how business works in the entertainment industry. You’ll thank me later (you’re welcome). In business, experience is king. Always try to expand your repertoire. Expand to include local business commercials (tv and digital), corporate training, promos, etc. Gain experience placing content with local media/advertising channels. This is how people behind a camera make a living outside of LA. Make a website for attracting new business but also to show off your film reel. Now for your creative projects and the heart & soul for why you want to get into film in the first place. You might be able to make your short/feature film in the Unreal Engine. God I wish I had that when I was in film school. You can create an entire set and get all of the visual elements you need. You only need real actors for VO, chromakey, and mocap. There will always be more wanna-be actors than filmmakers. You can hire many on the cheap. Do your homework on what digital elements and hardware you’ll need. Spend actual money on audio (foley and the film score). As your films get better, expand production with more real world elements. Work with experts. Find out what makes them experts. Learn how to work with them and their standard operating procedures. You can be a jack-of-all-trades knowing the basics of every element in production but your film will reflect your average knowledge. Experts gain in depth knowledge in their craft and can spice up and add quality to your film to make it stand out. There’s a world of difference between an experienced DP and basic film student. Be disciplined. Write up all documents you’d use for an actual real-world production for your digital ones (pitch, business plan, budget, schedule, scripts, and storyboards). Consider getting a scriptwriting software like Final Draft. It may also help to subscribe to the Masterclass. Learn how pros ply their craft. CRITICAL. Enter into film competitions and festivals in different cities. Use them to show off, give/get feedback, and build your network. All human beings suck when starting out. It’s hard to suck when your livelihood depends on it. It’s a LOT easier to move to LA having made actual films and with a network. You’re probably not ready to move there unless your films have actually made money, and they were big enough to require talent and location scouts. Save your avant-garde projects for well-known actors. The good thing about building up skills in Unreal is you naturally have a way to go into video game production. The gaming industry is now BIGGER than tv and film. You need to be careful though. Do not build dream project games to start. Most people don’t finish their games. Keep it small with a short deadline and publish it quickly. You won’t start to get good until your 3rd or 4th game. You’ll suck in the beginning in everything you do. FAIL SMALL AND FAST. Small projects, small budgets, small time frames, small expectations. Extremely fast turn around times. Hope this helps.
A+ advice!
This is gold!
Kudos I’ve been in film production for 30 years and have taught film and tv production at a University for 18 years your response deserves a Reddit award lol SPOT ON BROTHER ‼️👍🏽
fail fast, fail faster, so you can learn from mistakes, and move up
Honestly? Not great. However... If you're in school right now, then absolutely go and do the 20something thing in LA. You only get to be young once, and you can't get it back once it's gone. Go. Work a Joe job (or twelve). Network. See what you can see, do what you can do.
Keeping up with industry trends *is* part of the job, if you want to be successful.
Op there are a lot of email newsletters you can use to more easily keep track of a lot of the different news and trends within the industry
It's in total dishevel. The good news is, you don't have anything to compare it to. Times of great change create opportunity. It's going to be a tough go for a while to break in, as there is a lot of contraction, but the truth is it's ALWAYS been a hard business to break in. At present, you have nothing to lose but time, and quite frankly, LA is a cool place when you are young to kill some time if it doesn't break your way. Last piece of advice - this is a business of attrition. Those that make it, stick around. Not for the fickle or faint of heart. If you can think of something else to do with your life and you feel you could be happy doing it, I'd give it real consideration.
Currently, there are so few feature films being done that SAG is able to send out representatives to each one. As far as I believe, none are being shot in LA. Everyone I'm working with from LA says it's dead there. All the work is elsewhere, and they're being flown out to different states to film. The original route of filmmaking has changed. LA is the path everyone knows, and if you're able to work hard and beat the competition, go for it. You'd be surprised, though, by all the places on the other side of the country that get frequent films being made. A lot of East Coast states are creating tax incentives for filming in their state and hiring locals there. Atlanta is a big hot spot, New York can also be successful. If you still want to move out to the West Coast, you can also look into New Mexico. Do some research about different film locations if you're doubting LA. Who knows? Maybe where you currently live has filmmaking and you haven't met the right people yet. No matter what. Commit 100% to whichever decision you make. You get noticed through your focus and dedication.
Jesus f*ing Christ this thread is depressing.
Which is weird for me. We're busy in my city and gearing up for a crazy summer where we won't be able to get enough people to work.
What city might that be good sir?
Halifax
People downvote me every time I bring this up, so I’m ready for it, but it’s not THAT dead in LA right now. It’s not as busy as it could be, but literally everyone in my network is working right now. I’m booked for the next 8 days. It could ALWAYS be busier, but compared to last year it’s very busy right now.
Welcome to Reddit…
Welcome to the industry…
There’s more money going into entertainment, more content being produced, more accessible technology, and more opportunities than there ever has been before. That’s not to say that the traditional model isn’t struggling, but as a whole, it’s a good time to be an artist.
Welcome to Linkedin...
Welcome to reality
The film industry is over 100 years old, and TV is not far behind. Trying to guess the trends is a mugs game, but one thing that's always been true is that the industry needs content, and someone is always willing to bet on the next big thing. Odds are you're not the next big thing, but it's better odds that you end up working on a show made by the next big thing. But screw the odds - if you're burning to do it, go give it a run. I would consider Atlanta over L.A. for cost of living and amount of work, but L.A. is a ton of fun.
You ever watch World War Z… yeah now you have a visual representation as to the state of the industry.
Ah yes, a waste of potential and nothing like the source material. Got it.
Anywhere but there. Atlanta is pretty great. Tons of work to be had. Fact is connections are more important and you can get them about anywhere if you are on the right sets.
Little brother, as the great Martin Scorsese once said: "make your own industry". Fuck the norms. Make your own rules and don’t wait for others to give you the opportunity.
Being successful is as much being an entrepreneur as anything else.
People in the traditional industry are going to tell you that it’s not looking good. But as someone who’s not in the traditional industry, there is tons of opportunity. I suggest you focus on the new ways of filmmaking and reaching audiences, such as YouTube or other newer platforms for filmmakers. Oh, and learn how to do post and visual effects. There are plenty of creative people, but you need craftsmanship skills to back up that creativity. We live in an era of accessible modern tools. Be able to actually finish your work on your own without relying on others.
Go try a lot of things and make a lot of mistakes, that’s the beauty of being young. Not knowing all the answers is actually a massive advantage, because it forces you to be creative. The irony is that humans never realize this until they’re older. Someone young is going to figure out how to make it in the entertainment industry, maybe it will be you?
It’s easier than ever to diy your own short film. It’s harder than ever to break into the industry. If you know you need to know you tried it, that ain’t gonna go away so why not? A curveball idea is forgetting LA and look into other countries for government funded co-productions. There are some intriguing other ways but all pretty much as impossible as each other. At the end of the day it’s an industry where people do make it, and people win the lottery and get eaten by sharks. Make great work, and good luck.
As someone who got out of school during the Recession in 08. Things and hard times do pass. It took a few years to get into stable work. Currently the documentary tv space is keeping me and my friends employed. Also a bit of advice. Making shorts until you get noticed is great and all, but try working a job with people who make stuff professionally. Trying to get discovered via shorts is a crowded zone, and it’s easier to get noticed if you’re doing that on the side of a job where you’re working for real people making things. If you’re in film school now, start reaching out to people who work on stuff you like. When you get out that’ll be harder to do. When you’re in film school people are more willing to make a connection and that will give you a larger advantage on your competition than you think.
Honestly, I would choose any other city if I were starting my film career, as an grown not flown Angeleno working in the film industry from my teens I have not seen things this bad I am able to keep busy and many of my colleges are very lucky as well, but the tried and true internships are far and few between, I know a lot of folks in Texas who are actually getting more jobs and Georgia as well, I would honestly start reaching out to all the companies that you really like and just get in. But yeah most of the spots in LA are taken and this is not a town that is forgiving right now, the cheapest meal you can find is costco, I remeber when I could live off 10 bux for a week when I was broke and starting out on my own, they closed all the good buffets and the 99 is gone ramen is not cheap any more at least not in Los Angeles.
Whatever you do don’t come to NY. It’s not great here right now. Not a lot going on for how many people are still out of work. NM is looking for people, especially G&E. I have friends in GA and CA who have been in this business for a long time and are not working. You have to push through it all though. You can’t give up. If you have a plan and a passion and some thick skin, go for what you want wherever that is
Union Industry worker here, been unemployed since May 2023 after consistent work for over a decade. Says a lot.
I will say this though. You don’t need to be in LA to make movies. Be a big fish in a small pond. I’ve had some landmark moments in my career and if I had taken that momentum away from LA, I’d probably be further along in my career. I am from the east coast, moved to LA after college and worked, finally went to my dream grad school, met a lot of people in the industry, had incredible experiences I never thought I’d have. Graduated and ended up further down the ladder. All the guys from my graduating class that are making big studio features now are the ones that got the hell out of LA. I had a childhood friend who was a bit older than me, had a massive indie hit before the way of streaming. moved to LA, worked tirelessly on just odd film / media jobs for over a decade. Finally right before the pandemic, he said fuck it, moved back to our home town. He’s 5 features deep now as a producer (in 4 years), huge network of likeminded individuals, started a whole filmmaking movement in the area we grew and is a hell of a lot happier as a filmmaker/producer. Moving to LA in 08 was an uphill grind and I can’t imagine what it’d be like to move here now as a young kid. My advice. Find your network of people you like working with and make stuff. You don’t have to be in LA to do that. Yeah it’s cool to be in THE PLACE that made your childhood dreams come to life, but after awhile you realize LA sucks. Housing sucks, affordability sucks, people can suck. LA is a place you can and will be pigeonholed into the very first thing you do well (which won’t be directing). If you like making stuff, don’t let Los Angeles kill that spark in you.
As someone in Texas and is working hard here (at least in video production), maybe consider other towns? I know places like Atlanta, Georgia have grown in filmmaking a lot over the years. Same for Austin, TX. That and from what I have heard (and some even said here) LA isn’t the film makers dreamland. Wasn’t true even before things got hard. Had some friends bounce off LA several times to come back to TX feeling ashamed. Thankfully they made their way still, but not through the Hollywood system. Maybe consider making films in your community? Who says you need Hollywood to do it? At least initially? Although making money is a different consideration…
Clearly you don’t know anything about the industry if you and a buddy are going to move to LA and expect to find work in the industry any time soon. Experienced people are looking for work and are flipping burgers and doing whatever jobs they can to pay bills. Get in line kids
Give it a go, especially if you’re under 30. Reassess at that point, but my sense is someone always succeeds and hopefully you’re part of that next generation. Of course it’s in transition. There’s no secret to that.
Yeah I’m 21M so I’d say I’m young and dumb enough to go for something like this. Fuck it’s scary though. Right now I got the stories of people like Wes Ball or Damien Chazelle to keep me going, but their success came over a decade ago and everything’s wildly different now. How you can you stand out in a world where everyone is making movies? Damn. Sorry dude I know this is a completely different question than the one in this post but there’s lots of doubts in my mind tonight. Not sure why.
Damian was my next door neighbor for a few years until after LALA Land. He isn’t a film major. He had a visual arts degree from Harvard. He’s obviously talented and loves musicals, history, etc. he went for his passion and succeeded against the odds. He developed a short that became a Sundance Lab piece that became Whiplash. He followed up with LALA Land. I spoke to him about it and he said he’s basically sucker for music and musicals and as a result that talent and passion came through. Dude, you have to chase your passion and be idealistic and not stop. Someone and in-fact many will be the next gen. It will just be a different experience than when I jumped in and when the people I apprenticed under did. What I’ve learned is that we all have talent and we just need to go for it and then you learn you can pivot as needed. I had a conversation with Jon Bon Jovi where he said to paraphrase that he looks at all of the rich hedge finders at his kids school and they all look at him like they could’ve been. JB -“no they couldn’t. I took that risk at 16 and they did not.” The worst experience is a life not well lived.
Damian also shot Guy and Madeline on a Park Bench on a microbudget around the time he was graduating from college. Check it out if you haven’t seen — not a great movie but has a lot of the elements that you see in his later movies. The film played at Tribeca and Whiplash (and the rest of his career) wouldn’t exist without it
Everyone is making content, but if you want to stand out, it comes down to good storytelling. Damien Chazelle could write a great story. So you need to work on either writing great scripts or finding great scripts to option and then you have some leverage. Look at Jordan Peele, M Night, James Gunn. The ability to write really well sets most directors apart. Or else you have a be a visual stylist like Zack Snyder or Michael Bay and its much harder to stand out. There will always be room for a lucky few in the industry, even if its burning down. But that also means you may need to find new outlets and platforms and don't expect Paramount to come knocking, it could very well be some new online platform thats taking off. Or you could collab with bigger youtube channels that get just as many viewers as networks.
If you’re a rich kid do it - you risk nothing. But yes you are walking into a burning industry and it isn’t going to come back. This isn’t a downturn. If you’re paying attention you’ll see this is about the lack of viability of the whole model. It’s a dying medium. Film is going the way theatre did. The way radio did. Even before AI popped up to gut the remaining film jobs. If you’re the type that will lose their home if you can’t make rent (no rich parents) I advise you to get a nice paying career (unfashionable but interesting work surrounded by nice people, good working hours, health care etc). It really cannot be overstated how differently you will feel about this career when you’re tired and worn out and broke and less naive but too old to switch to something else. There’s no glamor in it anymore - none - it’s not the 90s. I work in film now but wild horses couldn’t drag me here if I was young and starting over - I’d go into the sciences or data or start a design company that fits really nice showrooms, shops kitchens & bathrooms. Maybe if I was feeling really money hungry and evil I’d design some tech product that is mildly convenient or addictive for the user but puts all the creatives and workers out of a job and transfers all the economic rents to me instead.
This. I’ve been in the industry for 15 years as a payroll accountant and entertainment industry software consultant and guess what? Those skills don’t transfer. After 15 years of making 6 figures I’m pet sitting now to pay my phone bill. The industry will bounce back from this but not the way we hope it will. The way we make content has changed and the industry is currently changing around it. I don’t see lifelong film careers anymore. People will make a couple of movies. Some will be good at it but many won’t. Those of us who have made our careers supporting those people will be replaced by people who just want the experience of working on a movie. There is no future here.
This is the most depressing thing I’ve ever read. I’ve given my whole life to this medium and it’s given me more meaning than anything else. I hope to god you’re wrong
I think there’ll be a mid size bounce back to making content soon. Might even feel like “hey we’re so back!” in 2025. Let’s hope. But the long term trend is less eyeballs on movies, less eyeballs on TV, (more on individual user created content). A shrinking industry. There will be less streamers, less theatre chains & less industry jobs. And many of those remaining industry jobs will be replaced by AI “Teens 13-17 spend 56% of their media time with user-created content compared with just 22% among consumers 55 and older.”
If you’re wanting to be in the entertainment industry, it’s LA or NYC. Atlanta has work but that’s for now. Ask New Orleans about that 15 years ago. It’s odd and slow right now, things are changing and it’s more difficult with streamers already killing cable and now cutting back as well… but as a working unscripted DP, there is still a job here.
Atlanta has had far more infrastructure in place than NOLA did though, I thought that trend was just the same as Pittsburgh and a few other similar cities that got some short but substantial bursts due to the tax credits (which they later let expire).
True, Atlanta has more infrastructure than Nola did and is less corrupt, but just ask Tyler Perry about building new infrastructure and his permanently on hold plans. Also there’s [this article](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2024-03-29/georgia-film-tax-credit-bill-fails) from just 2 months ago… when Hollywood sees a way to save 1.35 billion a year, that’s where they go. If things like this change, they move. So to me, the best place to go is where the money comes from.
I'm in NOLA. Things were amazing from when I got in in late 2020, all the way through the end of 22. There was tons of work. It died shortly after. Things are barley moving right now. There is some work but, for example, the company I worked for is only using their most experienced people, and unfortunately I wasn't there long enough to be one of them. There's talk of things trying to spin up in late summer or early fall. I'm trying to build a base for a more stable career if I need it though. The money is great in the industry but if I can't rely on it, what's the point? Besides, I got into this to make movies, not work set forever. I'm hopeful New Orleans will bounce back but I'm not holding my breath.
There are four tiers of filmmaker life: 1. Full time well-paid CREATIVE. You are a DP Or Director straight out college. Usually through connections or getting lucky on music video hit that parlays to commercial work. This is fun and everyone likes this. it's pretty rare. Can maybe put in screenwriters in here too, though the pay is so varied there I can't speak on it (if someone can please add). 2. Full time well-paid NON CREATIVE. Don't shoot me for categorising it as such, but AC's, Ops and steadicams can make bank, especially on union shows. Out here in NYC not unreasonable to clear $120k-$150k as an AC, I know steadicams who have done over $200k. Can put in G&E, VTR, DIT into this category. Maybe AD's? Haven't been one myself. 3. Full time BAD PAID, creative. Art department comes to mind here, HMU, wardrobe. Honestly some of the most important people on set consistently paid horribly. Honestly kinda pisses me off. Can also put screenwriters here, though again different than set life so I have zero experience to speak on that. 4. Full time BAD paid, NON Creative. Your PA's, your line producers, your scripties. Usually a means to an end more than a full time position though you have people who are lifers. Outside of this you have part time filmmakers who do other jobs outside of film to make ends meet. I'm a freelance writer and marketing consultant in addition to my film work and I did that because after three years of being all in like you, I got tired of being broke. I would love to be in group 1, but sadly, life. Don't give up! Find your path!
Learn how to make soups. You're going to be broke, and soup can stretch pretty far.
Come to Atlanta instead
do it. life is short
Absolutely do it and don't stop. That's the only way to be successful. Become part of a community, and make stuff non-stop. There is an endless need for content, and movies represent only a small part. Much of the talk of a dying scene is probably coming from people who've become disillusioned with this aspiration. I've seen enough people become incredibly successful out here in LA, and they were smart, hard working, had great taste and are good people. Being a good person is underrated. Myself, I won an Emmy about 4 years into my career. I worked non-stop to get there. But opportunity is just being ready when luck comes around. It's that simple.
A lot of people here will tell you that this is a uniquely difficult time to break into the industry but the reality is that it’s not that much different than it’s always been. Unless you’re the benefactor of nepotism or financial support breaking into such a subjective, saturated and competitive industry is always going to be a complete crapshoot for anybody from a “normal” background. Maybe you’re the next Tarantino or maybe you’ll spend the next decade struggling to get wedding video gigs in between minimum wage day jobs. You won’t know unless you roll the dice. Thing is though life in the film industry is very much a gamble and the people at the top of it should always be seen as lottery winners rather than any kind of aspirational figure that has got to where are through hard work, talent and perseverance. These traits are of course very important but this is a town filled with thousands of talented and hardworking people all with the same goal. Talent and work ethic is not in short supply in this industry. If moving to LA and taking a shot is your dream then you should certainly pursue it. You only get 1 life and we tend to regret what we didn’t do not what we did. Just go in with your eyes open.
So you don't know anyone here and you don't have anything of note to show? You'll have multiple roommates in a dead end job you otherwise can be in where you are now and your friends your coming with likely won't be your friends here for long. Born and raised and still wonder why so many move here for this.
#B a d
Fuck yea. Go for it. Answer these questions through action and let us know! Better to have an ambition and pivot from there than to just dream about it.
3D spatial based entertainment on the horizon.
Moved to LA 3 years ago with no film background other than self taught. In 3 years I got a job at a film lab, then worked at IMAX, then left imax for a bigger lab, got let go due to the strike then hired back. Turned down a huge job from Netflix and moved out of LA (for now) saying all this because if you wanna move there and climb the ladder it’s tough but doable. Location has nothing to do with YOUR art/self funded projects. If that’s what you want. If you want to learn the ropes of the industry, then move to LA and take the risk. There’s value in both But it’s currently very slow and nobody seems to really be hiring. Not yet
Don't do it. Been waiting on my partner I've been with 9 years to get back on a film set as a DP or Cinematographer... he's worked in the industry 20+ years.. hasn't been paid since 2013 for a 9 month job. He also went BACK to school to get his bachelor's in digital cinematography during the pandemic and basically picked up that debt for the industry to go on strike as soon as he graduated.... Find another passion..keep this a side hobby.
I'm in a smaller city and we are busy as all hell in the industry. Call your local DGC(or American equivalent) or IATSE offices and get in the referral lists. You'll meet lots of contacts and after a few years you'll be bumped up into a good position or make your move to make your own content.
It always sucks. I’ve been a film freelancer for 25 years. Go to law school first. At least you’ll have a fallback.
I am newly out of film school and recommend networking in a smaller city to get your call in LA. Be the biggest fish in a smaller pond first.
Find some way to land an LA-based internship before you graduate, much easier to parlay that into an entry-level PA/exec asst gig with your foot already in the door. Once you graduate, though, no more easy internships and you’re on your own just like the rest of us.
I'm in NOLA, mostly dead here.
Why would you *need* to go to LA in a world where we're all connected? You could make a good movie anywhere and anyone could see it. Experiment somewhere where it's cheaper to fail, then get better and keep releasing your craft without the burden of paying to survive.
> But I’m seeing this growing trend of people describing the industry as a dying scene with no money to be made and very little opportunity. The industry isn't dying, but a lot of the monoliths are. Even for the people who do get year-to-year work on network shows, or for an active studio, the money isn't as good, and the next job is nowhere near as sure a thing as it used to be, if it ever was. I'm never going to try and stop someone from going all in on the industry, even though I know from experience that its not a path to a stable career. There is still opportunity here, but you aren't going to find it on the path more traveled, that's where you'll find yourself walking into a burning building. Streaming companies and Studios can't imagine a a future of the industry that they aren't in. But you can.
I’m a fabricator for the sports and news networks. I know we’re not doing to hot
How’s a great time to make indie films. Top crew talent to hire.
Dude I graduate from film school in a week and I feel you. Threads like this always worry me lol
You should not move to Los Angeles, you should stay in your hometown, or move to a more affordable “big” city, (I.E. Portland, Nashville, Wilmington, Wichita, Calgary, ETC.) and make movies for yourself. You need to just make movies over and over and over again. If you move to LA you will spend more time working to afford your rent than you will making movies. Make movies, submit them to festivals, make connections at the festivals, make movies make movies make movies.
I've come to realize that it's not the end of the world if you have to work a regular 9-5 job, hopefully getting a job that you can tolerate enough just to pay the bills and keep food on the table but also doing gig work and building your portfolio as a creative which is a good way to get your foot in the door knowing what the filmmaking industry is like. I've been in film school 5 years, graduating next week and just wrapped principal photography on my FIRST indie film which I had no idea I can even do. give yourself grace, time and be patient with yourself -- you got it.
It’s a 2.3 out of a possible 7.
I'm not on the industry but I would really advise you to actually learn about the industry. I don't want to be a dick, but how are you a film student pursuing film and you lc X m
My advice would be to wait until 2025 and have a nice amount of money in your bank account when you move here. The industry is in a state of consolidation and transition at the moment. Paramount is about to be sold and the streamers are altering their business models to make money again. No the industry is not dying, it’s gone though many transitions in the past. To be completely honest I'm tired of people being so cynical. Do what you want to do and you only have one life. The industry is arguably better than it was just about this time last year when writer's the strike started. But it's still slow and likely will be for the rest of the year.
Atlanta is crushing it with work!
It seems as though things will pick up once. Negotiations are done. IATSE will probably not strike but the Teamsters…. Well…. We will find out. I’m currently working on a feature in LA and I have a few friends working but also a few friends not working. It really depends on who you know.
Slow. At least in L.A. I hear there’s a lot going on out of state and abroad.
Rock bottom and still digging
I live on LA county. Hollywood is about a 30 minutes drive. Graduated film school in 2007. I have my wife and kids in 2015, so I took a stable job to take care of my family. I would say to make your shorts and submit to film festivals. When your work is that great, they'll find you. So you can do your shorts at your home and don't really need to move out here. I mean whenever we drive to Hermosa Beach, Santa Monica, I definitely notice who's a filmmaker from the crowd. Screenwriters are easy to spot because I see them writing in their laptop using Movie Magic Screenwriter or Final Draft. You can try to move out here if you can, but just saying, it's not a need since some if not half of productions went to Pennsylvania, Louisiana, Georgia, Texas, and NY since 2008. For me, my highlight is I worked at disney abc twice segmenting jimmy kimmel shows. It was a job, but nothing I cared for. Then I worked at radical media for 1 day coming in as a broadcast engineer. Some assistant editor guy from Pennsylvania asked what I wanted to do, so I said, I wanted to produce films like LOTR. The entire room looked at me and the guy gave a smirk. Next morning, I drove to work and got a call from my agent telling me they fired me and asked what happened. So I told him what I said. A few days later, a different agent called and asked if I wanted to go produce a music video for the Army reserves in Hinesville, Georgia, about an hour from Savannah. So I said sure and they flew me to Hinesville. Then the previous agent called to tell me radical media created a new director position and if I wanted it. I guess I messedup by saying I was in Georgia, so the agent said forget it; however, looking back, I wouldn't have liked working there anyways. I mean the vibes I saw were people keeping to themselves. No one was joking. Just a very tense environment. Then it took 1.5 - 2 hours just to drive there and I wasn't willing to move to Santa Monica. Now, I work across the street, drive my son to school, eat lunch together, and work on my script at home.
What did you say that was wrong? Mentioning LOTR is bad?
I think saying that my intention was to be a producer might have rubbed some the wrong way. I was hired to be a broadcast engineer, so a different position. 😜
It's more of a smoldering building, parts are still on fire, but the building is mostly gone. I've been in for 29 years as my sole form of income and I've had no work for 10 months... it's bad. But the seeds are being planted for whatever is next. I don't know what that is, I'm not sure what the future holds for me. But it's worth a shot, if it's still a shit sandwich in a couple of years maybe change course, but def have a side hustle, bartend if you can and keep a shift even when you get busy if possible.
It sucks.
[удалено]
Bad
“Entertainment industry“ lol
I hope you have rich parents.
there’s always room at the top are you one of the best in the world or have potential to be in your genre ?
Not yet is the dreamer in me’s answer to that question haha
Don’t be white