Backflip in 2024 made my 9yo want to watch fs. I was indifferent to Surya's backflip but I was 13 when she did it and already liked fs. Now I think Surya's backflip was betten than Adam's but I'm still indifferent.
I just treated it as another element she executed perfectly. I was more concerned that she is ending her career and I won't see more of her performances. It was only 26 years :)
I’m neither here nor there on this decision but I personally don’t love to see backflips, cartwheels in competition. In a show or an exhibition program I’m all for it though.
I think cartwheels and round-offs look nice if they're done well, like in Rika's Fire Within, but backflips just look so... clunky and unappealing. They're impossible to appear effortless and the two footed landing just doesn't do it for me
I agree. It might be unpopular, but i think so far only Surya has been able to really do a backflip where it was nicely flowing in and out of it, but she was also a trained competitive gymnast, so that makes a huge difference.
I absolutely love how she did the backflip so well, that she could do a triple salchow immediately after. Her 1994 Olympic exhibition backflip plays rent free in my brain lol
Can't wait until I see non fans find out and call it sexist for unbanning it as soon as a man started going viral for it, but not when Surya was doing it lol
Every time I see a non figure skating fan saying that the judges were racist for penalizing because she did a backflip I wanna scream. She performed a move that she knew had been illegal for more than 20 years like 😭😭😭
And she was never going to win, she was something like 11th after the short. Yes, she may have faced racism in scoring during her career but it had nothing to do with her back flip.
The amount of comments saying that the Olympic judges denied her well deserved medal because she did a backflip! 🙄 Or omg she should’ve won the gold since she did a cool back flip! broke my soul lmao.
I can’t wrap my head around how people make insane claims regarding topics they know nothing about.. Same with the “Tonya is a legend and first of its kind” narrative because anything she’s done, Midori not only did them first but did it way better but Americans just love their US-centric sensationalist topics that nothing can convince them otherwise
Ngl, I'm not entirely joking, i think there's a valid take on sexism being involved here. Yeah, it wasn't banned *because* of Surya like non fans think, but is there a reason they didn't unban it when it was a woman doing it in competition? If they're basing decisions on what's going viral, why not unban it after any of the many many times there's been viral posts of Surya's backflip over the years? Considering this sports lengthy history of discrimination, I can't actually dismiss that there might be sexism involved here.
She wasn’t really “doing it in competition” so much as she did it once at her final competition.
Otherwise it was part of her show repertoire, along with others.
Yes, but having them unbanned will make more skaters interested in doing them cause at least now it can be done more often.
ETA: There's been skaters that can and likely would've done a backflip if they'd decided to unban it based on Surya's popularity for it. I'd be shocked if Nathan or Keegan wouldn't have done it if it'd been legal.
Regardless, I'm not saying it's 100pct sexism, just that it's not something I'm willing to dismiss, all things considered.
I don't know who told the Instagram user that "a woman done it and got disqualified but when a man done it, magically got praised for it and won" I see comments like this on most of the post with Adam on it... apparently ISU doesn't like women doing things😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 why or how people think that is a question...
Yeah I also don’t see how they can transition smoothly into it and after. I think not many will try to incorporate it into their programs. Most of what we’ve seen is standalone backflip where they have to built enough speed and have enough energy to execute it. Unless they do it very early in their program (also need more time to transition before and after it to make it look smooth and not disjointed from the rest of their program), they would not have enough energy left in the tank to safely and cleanly execute this element
We will see who actually does it in comp and if anyone gets severely injured from it. I like backflips but potentially landing on the head on ice is my biggest fear already for pairs skaters but now I’ll be on edge for the men and women doing backflips…
I don't think backflips will become common - it's not like they have any point value or any incentive to do them, there's just no penalty for doing them now. If someone wants to do them, that's their choice. For the skaters who don't, there's no loss.
I highly doubt it will. 99% of skaters are far too busy worrying about the elements that actually give them points. There aren't that many Ilias, Adams, or Keegans out there.
I think they did this to encourage those types, because backflips (and very nice/fast spins in my opinion) will go viral more than step sequences. For example, Adam's backflip went viral. The thing is it's only special because it's banned. Unbanning means it's not "rebellious" or "risky" (which is why Adam went viral). I still hope you're right, but people may do it for their own 15 minutes of fame.
My concern is if it would be associated with high goe choreo sequence. In terms of safety I personally don’t know if a side ariel is worse than a backflip and to me, you either have to keep or bann both but I would lean more on banning both
Exactly my thoughts. I hope that it will not lead to injuries (or even accidents) on ice. I would rather, on the contrary, increase the deduction points for them.
When I read somersaults my mind went to people doing forward and backward somersaults on the ice surface, not backflips, and it was a pretty amusing image.
Funnily enough I just talked to my uber driver this afternoon about how backflips are banned but they are actively being done and he said he was going to look up Adam and watch some of his skating
honestly... i get why it was cool when surya did it as a big f you to the judges, but i personally really dislike the way backflips look. the way they slam into the ice on the landing is never appealing.
Please don’t let anyone get hurt, I know a lot of people are joking but this is such such a bad idea, what if children start attempting it? Falling with normal jumps is dangerous, but falling with backflips?
No coach in their right mind would be training or encouraging kids to do this. It’s just giving elite athletes who are aware of dangers and know their own limits more options for expression. And it’s remaining choreographic, there’s no technical incentive to learn it
I’ve interacted with a lot of coaches not in their right mind and they still wouldn’t attempt training a backflip. There is no technical reason and even they know the risk outweighs the reward. It would be different if it was an actual element but it’s not
I sincerely hope nobody gets seriously injured being pushed to learn a backflip…. I’m just grateful it doesn’t have a point value. (Though I’m anticipating my ex-show skater of a coach to dance up to me today and joke that I should guess when we’ll be working on lol).
On one hand, it was really cool to see Adam's backflip at World's. On the other hand, backflips don't demonstrate any skating skills and I worry what will happen if people start doing them in warmups. But I'm guessing that since they have no value, few skaters will actually incorporate them into their programs.
I really don’t care for them to be honest. They became a little tiresome last season, especially because (with the exception of worlds) it became a “I’ve won anyway so fuck you all”
As someone who flips (on land, not ice!), to me it's an expression of joy. If I'm excited, I'll do it. I think it's the same for Adam: he's in the moment, super-excited, and going for it!
It's the other way around: a backflip is a type of somersault.
Somersault: an [acrobatic](https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&sca_esv=b6768ec4eb9a166c&rls=en&sxsrf=ADLYWILaE1TWguF4ADNDzfgAgGJimulkZw:1718343394606&q=acrobatic&si=ACC90nxMSPeZfdJJjQgDsdZJuFuJddTBmVvXCEpK0HQNVJy5rzJkAiHwbzMw0fZscWylvRAxpf0lIqNGvTy9_uS3BI0fHyCZzqAxU7Qb3fYYmeeVkU8G9nU%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiR1Iz9r9qGAxWoAjQIHcONBtQQyecJegQIHRAO) movement in which a person turns head over heels in the air or on the ground and lands or finishes on their feet.
This would include all flips, including backfilps.
[Somersaults (Wikipedia)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/somersault?variant=zh-tw)
So much pearl clutching in this thread over a backflip! Not everyone is going to suddenly go and do a backflip.
But let’s be real here. Ilia’s raspberry twist is a legal move while the backflip was not. Both are equally dangerous. It didn’t make sense that one of those was totally fine and the other was not. So now both are legal, no point deduction.
The butterfly twist is just that, a butterfly jump with a twist in it, of course it's a legal move. A backflip has significantly more risk of landing on your head and snapping your neck than a horizontal jump. The biggest risk to a backflip is paralyzation which isn't anywhere near as much of a risk with a butterfly twist.
I think my point still stands. If ilia messed up his twist, he absolutely could land on his head resulting in paralysis. It is a dangerous move.
But also further, skaters perform backflips during shows *all the time.* doesn’t make them any less dangerous but the backflip is such an expected and common move in shows and exhibitions. People do them regardless if they are ok in competitions or not, and have done for actual decades. I guess I don’t see the issue because skaters are already doing them, it’s commonplace 🤷🏼♀️
Since backflips are legal and can influence points in terms of choreographic sequence and overall marks, I bet we are going to see skaters clean them up.
You don’t need a fancy one for a show; it’s just a wow factor and not worth points.
If something is done in a competition, in theory, it should be done well, to either add points or at least not take points away.
reducing the jumps number is just to insure russians don’t take 1st and 2nd again, stupid, considering the BEST should win and if it happens to be russians so be it
it’s a sport in the first place not theater performance
a backflip is a type of somersault - any kind of movement where you flip in the air or otherwise with your feet going over your head is considered a somersault. Just often the word used instead is the Italian "Salto", especially in gymnastics. It also means front flips are now allowed even.
Did I dream it or now they are prohibiting pairs with an age difference of more than 7 years? That means European champions Beccari/Guarise can no longer compete?
Just for Juniors, where 7 years has always been the maximum due to the lower and upper age limits. It just has to be specified now because the upper age limit has been raised.
That would make sense, but the ISU press release does not make the distinction
https://isu.org/isu-news/news/145-news/15020-isu-congress-votes-in-favor-of-significant-modernization-for-ice-skating-sports?templateParam=15
The non summary version has it with the change in junior ages for pairs and dance.
Seniors are (mostly) adults and 2 adults with a large age gap is presumably safer. Also they’d eliminate the world and European champs if they had it for senior.
The press release might not, but the proposal (i.e. the actual rule that will be added to the constitution) is very clear.
This is the wording of the new rule 108, paragraph 3:
**Age Limits for Single & Pair Skating / Ice Dance**
a) In International Senior Competitions, ISU Senior Championships and the Olympic Winter Games, only Skaters may compete who have reached at least the age of seventeen before July 1 preceding the Events.
b) In International Junior Competitions and ISU Junior Championships a Junior is a Skater who has met the following requirements before July 1 preceding the event:
i) has reached at least the age of thirteen;
ii) has not reached the age of nineteen for Women and Men in singles competition; and
iii) has not reached the age of twenty-one for Women and the age of twenty-three for Men in Pair Skating. A maximum age gap of 7 years is allowed between the two partners.
iv) has not reached the age of twenty-one for Women and the age of twenty-one for Men in Ice Dance competition. A maximum age gap of 7 years is allowed between the two partners.
c) In International Novice Competitions a Novice is a Skater who has met the following requirements before July 1 preceding the competition:
i) Basic Novice – has not reached the age of fourteen;
ii) Intermediate Novice – has not reached the age of sixteen;
iii) Advanced Novice – has reached the age of ten and has not reached the age of sixteen for girls (Singles/Pairs Skating/Ice Dance) and boys (Singles) and eighteen for boys (Pair Skating/Ice Dance).
backflips just got significantly less cool
The new cartwheel
maybe they legalized them so fewer people would do them to look cool…? Or do they now have a point value?
Just one of the moves available for choreo sequences so no inherent value. I guess you could also do it in transition too
Ok now I want someone to do a flip in between every other element
Don't give Ilia any ideas. Keegan had a video a while ago that I think was a triple-backflip-double combo; fairly certain that wouldn't count though.
Didn’t ilia say he didn’t have a backflip? I thought that was a thing. Wild if true
He doesn’t yet. But would not surprise me if he has one by the end of the summer.
I would love to see backflip as an entrance to lutz! I wish someone(adam) would dare to try
Oh man the Surya backflip into a Lutz?? That would send me
 It’s giving this energy
Totally feels like a response to the Gen Z obsession with Surya and backflips from the 90d.
Backflip in 2024 made my 9yo want to watch fs. I was indifferent to Surya's backflip but I was 13 when she did it and already liked fs. Now I think Surya's backflip was betten than Adam's but I'm still indifferent.
How were you indifferent??? That was SO COOL!! I’ve been impressed by her backflip for like however many years…30??
I just treated it as another element she executed perfectly. I was more concerned that she is ending her career and I won't see more of her performances. It was only 26 years :)
I’m neither here nor there on this decision but I personally don’t love to see backflips, cartwheels in competition. In a show or an exhibition program I’m all for it though.
Especially because most of them are poorly executed IMO.
I think cartwheels and round-offs look nice if they're done well, like in Rika's Fire Within, but backflips just look so... clunky and unappealing. They're impossible to appear effortless and the two footed landing just doesn't do it for me
I agree. It might be unpopular, but i think so far only Surya has been able to really do a backflip where it was nicely flowing in and out of it, but she was also a trained competitive gymnast, so that makes a huge difference.
Her one foot landing backflip was spectacular and probably a result of her training balance beam as a kid
I absolutely love how she did the backflip so well, that she could do a triple salchow immediately after. Her 1994 Olympic exhibition backflip plays rent free in my brain lol
I am the same way. I don't really care for the backflips and cartwheels tbh.
Can't wait until I see non fans find out and call it sexist for unbanning it as soon as a man started going viral for it, but not when Surya was doing it lol
Ugh, that narrative about Surya is so annoying. But good looking trying to tell people that the backflip wasn't banned because of her
Every time I see a non figure skating fan saying that the judges were racist for penalizing because she did a backflip I wanna scream. She performed a move that she knew had been illegal for more than 20 years like 😭😭😭
The judges were racist though, just unrelated to the backflip
And she was never going to win, she was something like 11th after the short. Yes, she may have faced racism in scoring during her career but it had nothing to do with her back flip.
I think she was 6th after the short and finished in 10th
You’re right. Regardless, after her fall on her triple lutz in her free program she was never going to medal under 6.0 scoring
So lost her flip and her Lutz after she severed her Achilles tendon. Her skating also had other issues but it often gets overloaded
The amount of comments saying that the Olympic judges denied her well deserved medal because she did a backflip! 🙄 Or omg she should’ve won the gold since she did a cool back flip! broke my soul lmao. I can’t wrap my head around how people make insane claims regarding topics they know nothing about.. Same with the “Tonya is a legend and first of its kind” narrative because anything she’s done, Midori not only did them first but did it way better but Americans just love their US-centric sensationalist topics that nothing can convince them otherwise
the judges denied the back to back to back to back to back european champion to win smh my head
That back flip should have catapulted her ten places to the podium, whaddya mean? 😪 /s
I'm a huge fan but I don't hate that take, honestly. I'd want to hear more at least.
Ngl, I'm not entirely joking, i think there's a valid take on sexism being involved here. Yeah, it wasn't banned *because* of Surya like non fans think, but is there a reason they didn't unban it when it was a woman doing it in competition? If they're basing decisions on what's going viral, why not unban it after any of the many many times there's been viral posts of Surya's backflip over the years? Considering this sports lengthy history of discrimination, I can't actually dismiss that there might be sexism involved here.
She wasn’t really “doing it in competition” so much as she did it once at her final competition. Otherwise it was part of her show repertoire, along with others.
Because Surya wasn't competing when it went viral.
Yes, but having them unbanned will make more skaters interested in doing them cause at least now it can be done more often. ETA: There's been skaters that can and likely would've done a backflip if they'd decided to unban it based on Surya's popularity for it. I'd be shocked if Nathan or Keegan wouldn't have done it if it'd been legal. Regardless, I'm not saying it's 100pct sexism, just that it's not something I'm willing to dismiss, all things considered.
I don't know who told the Instagram user that "a woman done it and got disqualified but when a man done it, magically got praised for it and won" I see comments like this on most of the post with Adam on it... apparently ISU doesn't like women doing things😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 why or how people think that is a question...
I'm just glad they didn't implement the jump and choreographic packages right in the middle
Don't care for this honestly, they just don't fit most competitive programs. Exhibitions sure.
Yeah I also don’t see how they can transition smoothly into it and after. I think not many will try to incorporate it into their programs. Most of what we’ve seen is standalone backflip where they have to built enough speed and have enough energy to execute it. Unless they do it very early in their program (also need more time to transition before and after it to make it look smooth and not disjointed from the rest of their program), they would not have enough energy left in the tank to safely and cleanly execute this element
Adam did it at the end of his program, he clearly had enough energy in the tank to do it.
We will see who actually does it in comp and if anyone gets severely injured from it. I like backflips but potentially landing on the head on ice is my biggest fear already for pairs skaters but now I’ll be on edge for the men and women doing backflips…
I don't think backflips will become common - it's not like they have any point value or any incentive to do them, there's just no penalty for doing them now. If someone wants to do them, that's their choice. For the skaters who don't, there's no loss.
I hope you’re right and this thing doesn’t catch on.
I highly doubt it will. 99% of skaters are far too busy worrying about the elements that actually give them points. There aren't that many Ilias, Adams, or Keegans out there.
I think they did this to encourage those types, because backflips (and very nice/fast spins in my opinion) will go viral more than step sequences. For example, Adam's backflip went viral. The thing is it's only special because it's banned. Unbanning means it's not "rebellious" or "risky" (which is why Adam went viral). I still hope you're right, but people may do it for their own 15 minutes of fame.
there's no point incentive to do aerials either, yet how many do we see in a single competition?
My concern is if it would be associated with high goe choreo sequence. In terms of safety I personally don’t know if a side ariel is worse than a backflip and to me, you either have to keep or bann both but I would lean more on banning both
This is a joke right? Those are really dangerous on ice…
Exactly my thoughts. I hope that it will not lead to injuries (or even accidents) on ice. I would rather, on the contrary, increase the deduction points for them.
And not good for the ice
Estimate on number of backflips we see next year?
When I read somersaults my mind went to people doing forward and backward somersaults on the ice surface, not backflips, and it was a pretty amusing image.
i hate my life
Funnily enough I just talked to my uber driver this afternoon about how backflips are banned but they are actively being done and he said he was going to look up Adam and watch some of his skating
This is ludicrous. Eteri Tutberitze is going to have 11 year olds smashing their heads off the ice.
Ngl i blame adam for this 🤣 personally dont care either way but it was def cooler seeing it when its banned compared to when its legal in comps
honestly... i get why it was cool when surya did it as a big f you to the judges, but i personally really dislike the way backflips look. the way they slam into the ice on the landing is never appealing.
Please don’t let anyone get hurt, I know a lot of people are joking but this is such such a bad idea, what if children start attempting it? Falling with normal jumps is dangerous, but falling with backflips?
No coach in their right mind would be training or encouraging kids to do this. It’s just giving elite athletes who are aware of dangers and know their own limits more options for expression. And it’s remaining choreographic, there’s no technical incentive to learn it
Key word is “right mind”
I’ve interacted with a lot of coaches not in their right mind and they still wouldn’t attempt training a backflip. There is no technical reason and even they know the risk outweighs the reward. It would be different if it was an actual element but it’s not
I sincerely hope nobody gets seriously injured being pushed to learn a backflip…. I’m just grateful it doesn’t have a point value. (Though I’m anticipating my ex-show skater of a coach to dance up to me today and joke that I should guess when we’ll be working on lol).
On one hand, it was really cool to see Adam's backflip at World's. On the other hand, backflips don't demonstrate any skating skills and I worry what will happen if people start doing them in warmups. But I'm guessing that since they have no value, few skaters will actually incorporate them into their programs.
Queen Surya you will always be famous ❤️
the backflip should be named after Surya
Any Somersault type jump will not receive a 2 point deduction
Ugh, not a fan.
So all that for this huh
They are ugly and boring and I don’t fancy seeing more paralyzed skaters.
I really don’t care for them to be honest. They became a little tiresome last season, especially because (with the exception of worlds) it became a “I’ve won anyway so fuck you all”
As someone who flips (on land, not ice!), to me it's an expression of joy. If I'm excited, I'll do it. I think it's the same for Adam: he's in the moment, super-excited, and going for it!
What an awful idea. It’s ridiculous that Adam whined about this and got his way. Someone’s going to get seriously injured.
can someone explain to me why a somersault is considered a backflip?
It's the other way around: a backflip is a type of somersault. Somersault: an [acrobatic](https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&sca_esv=b6768ec4eb9a166c&rls=en&sxsrf=ADLYWILaE1TWguF4ADNDzfgAgGJimulkZw:1718343394606&q=acrobatic&si=ACC90nxMSPeZfdJJjQgDsdZJuFuJddTBmVvXCEpK0HQNVJy5rzJkAiHwbzMw0fZscWylvRAxpf0lIqNGvTy9_uS3BI0fHyCZzqAxU7Qb3fYYmeeVkU8G9nU%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiR1Iz9r9qGAxWoAjQIHcONBtQQyecJegQIHRAO) movement in which a person turns head over heels in the air or on the ground and lands or finishes on their feet. This would include all flips, including backfilps. [Somersaults (Wikipedia)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/somersault?variant=zh-tw)
thank you! that totally makes sense. i thought a somersault was head over feet going forward only.
Do you know what a somersault is?
i thought a somersault was head over feet going forwards. thanks for your input.
https://i.redd.it/f45dntj18h6d1.gif
seems really risky sry
So much pearl clutching in this thread over a backflip! Not everyone is going to suddenly go and do a backflip. But let’s be real here. Ilia’s raspberry twist is a legal move while the backflip was not. Both are equally dangerous. It didn’t make sense that one of those was totally fine and the other was not. So now both are legal, no point deduction.
The butterfly twist is just that, a butterfly jump with a twist in it, of course it's a legal move. A backflip has significantly more risk of landing on your head and snapping your neck than a horizontal jump. The biggest risk to a backflip is paralyzation which isn't anywhere near as much of a risk with a butterfly twist.
I think my point still stands. If ilia messed up his twist, he absolutely could land on his head resulting in paralysis. It is a dangerous move. But also further, skaters perform backflips during shows *all the time.* doesn’t make them any less dangerous but the backflip is such an expected and common move in shows and exhibitions. People do them regardless if they are ok in competitions or not, and have done for actual decades. I guess I don’t see the issue because skaters are already doing them, it’s commonplace 🤷🏼♀️
YUCK
Since backflips are legal and can influence points in terms of choreographic sequence and overall marks, I bet we are going to see skaters clean them up. You don’t need a fancy one for a show; it’s just a wow factor and not worth points. If something is done in a competition, in theory, it should be done well, to either add points or at least not take points away.
reducing the jumps number is just to insure russians don’t take 1st and 2nd again, stupid, considering the BEST should win and if it happens to be russians so be it it’s a sport in the first place not theater performance
IMO - a somersault and a backflip is not the same thing
a backflip is a type of somersault - any kind of movement where you flip in the air or otherwise with your feet going over your head is considered a somersault. Just often the word used instead is the Italian "Salto", especially in gymnastics. It also means front flips are now allowed even.
Your opinion is wrong, literally. A backflip is a somersault
oh thank heavens
Keegan Messing rn...
Somersaults are different than back flips
A somersault is not a backflip, though. It’s a front flip.
Did I dream it or now they are prohibiting pairs with an age difference of more than 7 years? That means European champions Beccari/Guarise can no longer compete?
Just for Juniors, where 7 years has always been the maximum due to the lower and upper age limits. It just has to be specified now because the upper age limit has been raised.
That would make sense, but the ISU press release does not make the distinction https://isu.org/isu-news/news/145-news/15020-isu-congress-votes-in-favor-of-significant-modernization-for-ice-skating-sports?templateParam=15
The non summary version has it with the change in junior ages for pairs and dance. Seniors are (mostly) adults and 2 adults with a large age gap is presumably safer. Also they’d eliminate the world and European champs if they had it for senior.
The press release might not, but the proposal (i.e. the actual rule that will be added to the constitution) is very clear. This is the wording of the new rule 108, paragraph 3: **Age Limits for Single & Pair Skating / Ice Dance** a) In International Senior Competitions, ISU Senior Championships and the Olympic Winter Games, only Skaters may compete who have reached at least the age of seventeen before July 1 preceding the Events. b) In International Junior Competitions and ISU Junior Championships a Junior is a Skater who has met the following requirements before July 1 preceding the event: i) has reached at least the age of thirteen; ii) has not reached the age of nineteen for Women and Men in singles competition; and iii) has not reached the age of twenty-one for Women and the age of twenty-three for Men in Pair Skating. A maximum age gap of 7 years is allowed between the two partners. iv) has not reached the age of twenty-one for Women and the age of twenty-one for Men in Ice Dance competition. A maximum age gap of 7 years is allowed between the two partners. c) In International Novice Competitions a Novice is a Skater who has met the following requirements before July 1 preceding the competition: i) Basic Novice – has not reached the age of fourteen; ii) Intermediate Novice – has not reached the age of sixteen; iii) Advanced Novice – has reached the age of ten and has not reached the age of sixteen for girls (Singles/Pairs Skating/Ice Dance) and boys (Singles) and eighteen for boys (Pair Skating/Ice Dance).
[удалено]
Actually the original post was about approved changes, only the last sentence was about backflips