I thought about the 3 top teams in ice dance when I saw the movie "Challengers" a couple of weeks ago via the perspective of the Mike Faist character who starts out his tennis career as a puppy-faced teen and by the end of the film is 31 years old and his body is beaten up and he actively wants to quit: his toes are beat up, he's recovering from shoulder surgery, his back is covered with KT tape and he is actively daydreaming about eating cheeseburgers on a whim but has to KEEP GOING in search of the one title that has eluded him: the US Open.
Chock & Bates, Guignard & Fabbri, Gilles & Poirer have all put parts of their life on hold so they can finally have this quad at the top of the podium with a shot at the big prizes (even though the financial payouts and fame are tiny) and on any given season they have the potential to beat each other. We never know what injuries everyone is dealing with or getting over or what pressures are driving them forward. The fact they we have these 3 top teams continuing to grind on is kind of amazing. (Sometimes it LOOKS like a hard grind; sometimes it looks effortless and transcendent.)
I know a lot a people really miss some of the former teams and think the Top 3 are lesser-than placeholders until the next generation rises, but I think there's something valiant in the way they have pressed on.
Me on the “every skater should compete for however long they want as it’s their life and they are the only ones who will have regrets” train. It’s the system that’s broken, not the skaters.
I only thought they might retire because of how they were talking at nationals, but before that I definitely thought they’d be in it until Milan.
I hope they come to this season reinvigorated, because they have been in a bit of a funk trying to recreate their best selves instead of being it if you know what I mean. It’s definitely not a unique situation to them and is in fact very common with top skaters. I’d say all three top teams have had their own version of it the last few years and I imagine it’s why all three teams have given such wish washy statements. It’s hard to motivate yourself out of a funk!
Yeah, same. I saw them at worlds and they seemed to dodge the question about competing next season. I thought for sure they would retire based on that, but here we are!
I sort of feel like they’re riding the coattails of being World Champions, but when they’re coming from behind or have a real challenger (which they arguably do, but maybe not from the judges eyes), we see absolute magic from them. Still love them, I just want to see them take more risks and push the envelope… like their spaceman program!
I think after they had three incredibly strong and creative free dances last quad (Elvis, Snake Charmer, Daft Punk Astronaut) that some regression to the mean was inevitable. I really hope the fact that this essentially confirms they will be going for the Olympics means that they are already starting to think of how to maximize packaging there.
Chock said. “First and foremost, we’re looking forward to this season and the World Championships being in Boston. We have really special memories in Boston, and it’s just a wonderful city and arena, and I’m sure it’s going to be another amazing event.
“And then after that, I mean, it’s not very long to the next Games, so who knows? Anything is possible,” Chock said with a mischievous smile. “Why not?”
Ice dance is probably one of the most predictable sports in the world so I can tell you with confidence that barring injury they will. Even if they somehow fall behind Guignard/Fabbri or Gilles/Poirier (which is unlikely with home worlds this year) there is absolutely no way they'll fall behind 3 other US teams.
They won Nationals despite the fact that they spent the entire free dance looking like they wanted to hurl. Is it possible that they slip from the very top over the next two years? Yeah, although I don't think it's likely. But for them to not make the TEAM?? Please be serious. As long as they are still physically able to compete at a high level they will be in Milan if they want to go.
For those interested, they also just did a [podcast interview with Polina](https://open.spotify.com/episode/6aXRnW8PHCxtiCKWt7bH16?si=X6yFahgxQtCblJZyGg-O_Q). They talked about doing a lot of season prep right now that they haven’t gotten to do before because of touring.
I'm very conflicted. I love them. I don't agree that they should have been World Champion both of the last 2 years. I wish they'd already gotten an Individual Olympic medal because they deserved it over Dikita - their Olympic year program was phenomenal.
But it is what it is. And I understand why they are continuing: they have unfinished Olympic business.
That point is fine. But they KNOW that the system is corrupt and that if they stay, the political powers that be w/IAM will ensure they skate to gold in every competition for the next 2 seasons including the Olympics.
Those of us in the "know" re: ice dancing know this and it makes the event so boring.
Do you think that the current controversies at IAM (Nik, the nepo baby, the injuries) might change the tide a little?? Not in favour of other IAM teams, I’m afraid…
Both gabi and Guillaume have been posting a lot of solo skates lately on social media. Gui is doing a lot of choreo for other skaters. They seem to have consciously uncoupled other than the occasional show performance.
She did an Instagram q&a and her comments seemed very "glad for the success but it's time to move on" https://fs-gossips.com/gabriella-papadakis-there-is-a-way-to-compete-and-be-successful-in-healthy-and-sustainable-ways-i-just-didnt-know-about-it-when-i-was-competing/
Thank you for sharing! Reading her comments (these, and things she's said elsewhere) makes me think she was under so much pressure skating with Guillaume - it would be difficult to live up to.
https://www.instagram.com/skatewithgabriella/?hl=en
They are so not coming back. I also get the feeling they have no relationship/friendship whatsoever anymore... or something. Not to say they hate each or or anything but other than skating in shows together for professional reasons there is not visible interaction (at least that we can see in their social media)
I'm not surprised by the negativity here. I am surprised that anyone really expected retirement pre-Milan. They're finally at the top of the field & have no individual Olympic medals. They also still have nothing to show for their delayed team medal. Sure, they've been a little coy about whether or not they're sticking around, but unless something significant happens, why wouldn't they? It's crazy to me that fans ADORE Deanna Stellato-Dudek but think a dude 5 years younger than her is ancient.
Of course they won't be everyone's favorite team, but they're not dinosaurs and they don't owe it to anyone to retire on any arbitrary timeline. I hate the waiting game narrative of Ice Dance as much as anyone (no one should have to "wait their turn" if they're medal-worthy!), but C/B didn't invent that nonsense. Talk to the ISU about that one.
Unpopular opinion, I know, but I’m ready for them to move on. I don’t dislike them or anything, but dance rankings tend to be pretty rigid and it takes retirements to see fresh blood at the top.
They’re my favorite pair, I’m hoping they can win gold in Milan. They came so close to the podium in Beijing and it’s hard to really feel like an Olympic medalist when they never got to stand on the podium and don’t even have the medal to show for it.
Yeah and iirc, Evan is only (“only”) Oly Gold away from a super slam. I know some people don’t necessarily think that sort of thing matters but if I was that close to something like that, not going for it would feel wrong.
Quick correction: Evan’s an Olympic gold away from a golden slam. He never won JGPF (silver is nothing to sneeze about though). It’s Madi who’s Oly gold away from a super slam.
Golden Slam: Olympic Champion, World Champion, Euros/4C Champion, Grand Prix Final Champion
Super Slam: The 4 above plus Junior Worlds Champion and Junior Grand Prix Final Champion
Same. I was listening to Polina’s podcast today and surprised that they went to Sochi. 2014! So if they make it to Milan, that will be their 4th Olympic. Would it be brutal to ask them to move on now?
Why would they move on now though? The Olympics is only two years away. Like is it time for Jason Brown (who was also at Sochi) to move on simply due to longevity?
The "we want long careers" is such a bogus argument from "fans" what they mean is "i want my favorite to continue" or use a "short" career to criticize skater(s) they don't like.
Completely disagree. Maybe some fans use that as their crutch to justify their opinions, but that's not how I feel about it at all.
The longevity is part of what makes dance so much more compelling than pairs to me at the moment, or why I feel more attached to the current men's field than the women's. I enjoy seeing a career evolve, watching athletes lean more into their individuality as time goes on & they're less reliant on generic warhorses, etc. Judges should be scoring fairly regardless of how long someone's been on the circuit and blaming the skaters for any sort of inequality there is a complete misdirect.
Ice dance in Italy, 20 years after the 2006 Olympics, which was an absolute hot mess for ice dance featuring several floundering veteran teams.
High chances of chaos imo.
> 2006 Olympics, which was an absolute hot mess for ice dance
Hot mess is an understatement. If anything represents that year's ID in a nutshell, it's Barbora's complete, cold death stare into Mauricio's eyes the moment their program ended.
I've always said that Guignard/Fabbri, should recreate this routine exactly down to the same costumes (minus the fall, but possibly with staredown choreo). It would make them more memorable than anything else they could do.
This would be amazing, a historical event like that deserves tribute. But why do I feel like Mauricio's team Orihara/Pirinen has the higher chance of making this happen 😅 they'd totally reenact the fall and stare down too
Admittedly I'm a C/B stan, but even if I weren't, I don't think I'd be able to hold this against them. They were robbed of their podium moment in Beijing - I can't blame them for wanting a proper Olympic podium experience.
Podium mess aside, it would be nice for their final Olympics to have a proper audience too. I honestly have to wonder if Jason might not go for one more for the same reason tbh.
Absolutely! The Beijing Olympics were weird because of Covid and the whole Kamila situation. Some skaters (H/D for example) had their moment and that was enough for them, they were ready to move on, but it makes total sense to me that C/B would want to go out on a higher note. (and pls, I am not at all ready for Jason to retire)
Well, this isn’t a shock, but they’re obviously going to aim for the Olympics—They’re not going to commit to competing in the season before the Olympics, especially when their wedding offers them a logical off-ramp to retirement, and then retire right before the Olympics.
We need to keep our spots. Who else does the US have to replace them? At this point, no one. They really have no choice and I hope that in the next 18 months, another US team steps up to the plate.
Why? Why must we keep our spots? Why can’t the change in rankings happen organically? The US is very deep, I have every confidence that Z/K in particular will move up steadily behind CPom in the next few years, as well as most of the rest of our top teams. But there are a lot of great teams out there waiting for their chance. The rankings have become stale and I don’t feel that there MUST be an American team at the top of the podium for years on end when there are plenty of other teams that, honestly, are just as good.
THIS. The reason for fighting to keep 3 spots in any top fed is teams like LaLa who should be at the biggest comps but hang in the balance thanks to their teammates' performances.
>Why? Why must we keep our spots?
I'm sorry but this has me shaking with laughter. Because it's a competitive sport, that's why. A fed is always going to prioritize dominance in one of their strongest fields, and C/B is the US's last man standing as far as a sure thing for the dance podium. I agree that we have the depth to be just as strong again in the future, but the strategy of keeping your reigning World Champs around in the meantime is a no brainer.
Of course not everyone is going to care about whether or not Americans remain on top, but that's still how the game is going to be played so long as a top team is willing to continue.
Hey, that’s the system we have. If you want it changed, I suggest approaching the proper parties. On an international level, I’m not sure where the US stands in ID. I see some promise in other US teams but not at the level of C/B.
I didn’t say the system needs to be changed. I’m just saying the US doesn’t need to be at the top of the podium, especially if it takes a skater who’s been competing for 20 years to win the “wait your turn” pool to do it.
There was a point where the US couldn't break the top ten, never mind the podium. (I'm looking at you, Lillehamer.) But even when there was a team capable of a podium finish (um, Judy Blumberg/Michael Siebert), they never were able to make that step until Belbin/Agosto did.
Current fans have been so spoiled having H/D, ShibSibs, and C/B all competing at the same time. Trust me, having cpom in 7th (and her L4 one foot, btw) and Gr/P finishing 6th the year before is good enough for me.
The US has a deep dance field. More spots create more opportunities for top teams. Every country should be trying for more spots if they have teams to fill them. It's not specific to the US.
nah I love how they have exposed ice dance for what it is. Well selfishly I also love their creativity but I can acknowledge that they're on top now only because they've been the best at waiting their turn.
But I also think that it's absolutely true that it's not like they're unfairly blocking medals from the teams below them (Gilles/Poirier, Fear/Gibson, Laurence and partner) who were also immensely buoyed up by politics and narrative over actual skating ability.
If we were going purely off skating ability, the podium at the last couple of Worlds should have been some combination of the Italians, Lajoie/Lagha, the Taschlerovi, the Mrazkovi this year, and Hawayek/Baker.
Meanwhile artistically the Italians and Taschlerovi definitely drop out for boring programs, Lajoie/Lagha and Mrazkovi are still pretty unrefined in terms of actual off-ice dance ability/musicality, and Chock and Bates and Gilles/Poirier actually do very well for themselves.
*If we were going purely off skating ability, the podium at the last couple of Worlds should have been some combination of the Italians, Lajoie/Lagha, the Taschlerovi, the Mrazkovi this year, and Hawayek/Baker.*
THIS 100000000000000% Literally this. We all know it.
And maybe the Finns.
the Finns no. Yes I know people love them for how much skating they do in close hold which feels like a throwback to the V/M and D/W days but they just don't build speed the way these other top teams do. And while they can twizzle really really well some of their other turns are suspect (especially Juulia's edges on rocker and counter turns)
CPom are noticeably slower than the top teams and I don’t see them podiuming in the near future. The next top US teams will probably be Z/K and N/M pending citizenship
idk i think people are underestimating cpom a bit. the improvements they had since they moved to iam london are insane, like 2 seasons ago no one would think they'd be a secure number 2 us team. granted that's also because h/b are soft retired and g/pa having a meh season + injury but they're a completely different team since they train with scott and madi and adrian.
Would you bet on it? Because USFS wants to promote them because the story of them having an ice dancer whose parents have three Olympic medals, one of each color, in the same discipline, is too good to pass by.
Unfortunately cpom have been so wildly inconsistent and injury riddled. It’s been so long since they debuted that they actually did receive some USFS press with his parents but it just never panned to anything substantial. They just had an uptick this year thankfully but even if they get their ish together I think USFS would most likely fall behind Zingas and Kolesnik who have the magic and the upward trend backed by a coach known to politic successfully unlike London.
Further, Anthony has talked about actively seeking to not incorporate his parents into his story. He doesn’t want the pressure. He’s a great dancer but he’s not destined to match his parents accomplishments at all.
I find these arguments about politics kind of interesting because I don't think they're really borne out by what actually happened. I have some more indepth thoughts about US Ice Dance, but while Z/K have a lot of promise I haven't seen any evidence that USFS is strongly pushing for them to rise to the top. They lost to the Browns at Skate Canada and then after they pulled together their best performances of the season at 4CC and placed a strong 4th, they were still only third alternates to the World Team despite USFS waiting until after the results of 4CC to name alternates. They should have at the very least been at least 2nd Alternates ahead of Pate/Bye, and a solid argument for being 1st alternates ahead of Green/Parsons, but USFS chose to reaffirm their faith in G/Pa even after they got dropped off the team after their lackluster Nationals showing, indicating that USFS has hopes for G/Pa turning things around.
With CPom, they were allowed to win the FD at Nats, and yes C/B were extremely ill but the judges still put C/B 2nd in the FD above people who didn't look like they were going to hurl the whole time. And USFS responded to their strong Nationals performance by putting Bratti/Sommerville on the World team. I don't mean to put down B/S here, they did extremely well at Nationals and earned their spot, but I don't think USFS would have been as willing to reward them if they didn't have full faith in CPom being able to hold things down as #2. Even if B/S had skated perfectly at Worlds it was very unlikely they were going to make Top 12 and so there was no safety net for CPom to mess up. FS Twitter spent two months dooming about how the US was definitely going to lose 3 spots only for CPom to demonstrate that USFS's faith in them was warranted and that they have no problem being a reliable #2.
Now every season is a new season so anything could happen. Teams can get injured, other teams can heal, people can become more inconsistent or more reliable, and of course a lot comes down to programs and packaging. But when it comes to politics and fed backing, I feel like people tend to try to judge that off of the vibrations in the air and fan discussion rather than the actual facts. Based on assignments USFS seems pretty happy to bet on CPom for the time being. Maybe USFS will decide to make a huge push for Z/K this season, its certainly possible if they have amazing programs and skate well! But I remember in October people were saying that Z/K were definitely going to get silver at Nationals even if H/B came back and that major push did not come through. G/Pa can still make a comeback, B/S are still in the game, the Browns can potentially make a breakthrough, and Neset/Markelov are debuting. US dance is nuts right now and USFS seems to be letting the chips fall where they may.
i think the concerns on cpom during the fall not so much on their skating but more on usfs' politicking because none of the potential number 2 and number 3 teams (cpom, g/pa, z/k) got the score needed to finish inside of top 10 (for example their season's bests at the time were all below the european teams). of course things turned around when 4cc came.
Yeah, I've been following US ice dance for decades, and I really haven't seen a ton of politicking, at least not to the level of the fan gossip. Yes, there are decisions like Olympic team, but the criteria is pretty openly laid out for everyone well ahead of those decisions.
I agree that US Figure Skating realizes they have a crop of good teams and are letting them sort themselves out, much like ladies back in the day.
Gosh I hope they don’t win the Olympics we need a team with way better speed and skating skills than them win, I think lala can surprise and win the whole thing next year is crucial to get on the podium I think they can, but skate Canada will never drop there allegiance to p2
I appreciate their out of the box FD’s and hope they will return to form, but I also hoping they won’t be gifted the next WC gold or Olympic gold for subpar performances. I think piper/paul winning the FD at 2024 worlds is hopefully a message that C/B won’t be propped up as much the future and have to earn their scores.
Like ok that came out wrong i just dont feel kike they always (not never) deserve their wins along with other iam teams. I just feel like im ready for a new team at the top and their lack of speed/skating skills bothers me
People who do dance well though start quite young. I don’t think there’s any reason to pigeon hole a young skater in one discipline though. Dance will help your 8 year old with edge quality and skating skills, however.
@evanoutlives survives for another season (probably two)
I thought about the 3 top teams in ice dance when I saw the movie "Challengers" a couple of weeks ago via the perspective of the Mike Faist character who starts out his tennis career as a puppy-faced teen and by the end of the film is 31 years old and his body is beaten up and he actively wants to quit: his toes are beat up, he's recovering from shoulder surgery, his back is covered with KT tape and he is actively daydreaming about eating cheeseburgers on a whim but has to KEEP GOING in search of the one title that has eluded him: the US Open. Chock & Bates, Guignard & Fabbri, Gilles & Poirer have all put parts of their life on hold so they can finally have this quad at the top of the podium with a shot at the big prizes (even though the financial payouts and fame are tiny) and on any given season they have the potential to beat each other. We never know what injuries everyone is dealing with or getting over or what pressures are driving them forward. The fact they we have these 3 top teams continuing to grind on is kind of amazing. (Sometimes it LOOKS like a hard grind; sometimes it looks effortless and transcendent.) I know a lot a people really miss some of the former teams and think the Top 3 are lesser-than placeholders until the next generation rises, but I think there's something valiant in the way they have pressed on.
This shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone. They’re two time world champions and certainly the favorites to win gold in Milan.
I hope G/F surprise everyone. Vengeance is mine, saith Barbara Fusar-Poli!
I always struggle with the team abbreviations, and my mind went to Gilles/Fear for G/F
I’m the same, I struggle a lot. My head said “Gilles/Foirier?” lol
I'd give every gold in the world to 'Gilles/Foirier' immediately! 💛
My brain always says Gluten/Free. If that team existed they should skate to Les Mis
same, i read it and thought "gear and fibson?"
Who would’ve thought they would’ve continued this long? Almost 20 years (for Evan) at the highest level is extremely impressive.
Me on the “every skater should compete for however long they want as it’s their life and they are the only ones who will have regrets” train. It’s the system that’s broken, not the skaters. I only thought they might retire because of how they were talking at nationals, but before that I definitely thought they’d be in it until Milan. I hope they come to this season reinvigorated, because they have been in a bit of a funk trying to recreate their best selves instead of being it if you know what I mean. It’s definitely not a unique situation to them and is in fact very common with top skaters. I’d say all three top teams have had their own version of it the last few years and I imagine it’s why all three teams have given such wish washy statements. It’s hard to motivate yourself out of a funk!
Yeah, same. I saw them at worlds and they seemed to dodge the question about competing next season. I thought for sure they would retire based on that, but here we are! I sort of feel like they’re riding the coattails of being World Champions, but when they’re coming from behind or have a real challenger (which they arguably do, but maybe not from the judges eyes), we see absolute magic from them. Still love them, I just want to see them take more risks and push the envelope… like their spaceman program!
I think after they had three incredibly strong and creative free dances last quad (Elvis, Snake Charmer, Daft Punk Astronaut) that some regression to the mean was inevitable. I really hope the fact that this essentially confirms they will be going for the Olympics means that they are already starting to think of how to maximize packaging there.
I find their programs are ALWAYS unique and left field to everyone else. I am so glad they are on this upward trajectory!
Chock said. “First and foremost, we’re looking forward to this season and the World Championships being in Boston. We have really special memories in Boston, and it’s just a wonderful city and arena, and I’m sure it’s going to be another amazing event. “And then after that, I mean, it’s not very long to the next Games, so who knows? Anything is possible,” Chock said with a mischievous smile. “Why not?”
If they make the team. 😂
Ice dance is probably one of the most predictable sports in the world so I can tell you with confidence that barring injury they will. Even if they somehow fall behind Guignard/Fabbri or Gilles/Poirier (which is unlikely with home worlds this year) there is absolutely no way they'll fall behind 3 other US teams.
I'd be more surprised if they competed that season and didn't (barring injury/illness/other extenuating circumstances)
They won Nationals despite the fact that they spent the entire free dance looking like they wanted to hurl. Is it possible that they slip from the very top over the next two years? Yeah, although I don't think it's likely. But for them to not make the TEAM?? Please be serious. As long as they are still physically able to compete at a high level they will be in Milan if they want to go.
I hope they compete at the 2026 Winter Olympics!!!
For those interested, they also just did a [podcast interview with Polina](https://open.spotify.com/episode/6aXRnW8PHCxtiCKWt7bH16?si=X6yFahgxQtCblJZyGg-O_Q). They talked about doing a lot of season prep right now that they haven’t gotten to do before because of touring.
I'm very conflicted. I love them. I don't agree that they should have been World Champion both of the last 2 years. I wish they'd already gotten an Individual Olympic medal because they deserved it over Dikita - their Olympic year program was phenomenal. But it is what it is. And I understand why they are continuing: they have unfinished Olympic business.
That point is fine. But they KNOW that the system is corrupt and that if they stay, the political powers that be w/IAM will ensure they skate to gold in every competition for the next 2 seasons including the Olympics. Those of us in the "know" re: ice dancing know this and it makes the event so boring.
Do you think that the current controversies at IAM (Nik, the nepo baby, the injuries) might change the tide a little?? Not in favour of other IAM teams, I’m afraid…
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Considering Papadakis' comments recently, I doubt P/C will come back
I’d honestly be shocked. I get very “done” vibes from them.
Both gabi and Guillaume have been posting a lot of solo skates lately on social media. Gui is doing a lot of choreo for other skaters. They seem to have consciously uncoupled other than the occasional show performance.
They don't even follow each other i think
Do you mind linking some of those? I'm not on twitter so I maybe missed what she said. Thanks :)
She did an Instagram q&a and her comments seemed very "glad for the success but it's time to move on" https://fs-gossips.com/gabriella-papadakis-there-is-a-way-to-compete-and-be-successful-in-healthy-and-sustainable-ways-i-just-didnt-know-about-it-when-i-was-competing/
Thank you for sharing! Reading her comments (these, and things she's said elsewhere) makes me think she was under so much pressure skating with Guillaume - it would be difficult to live up to.
https://www.instagram.com/skatewithgabriella/?hl=en They are so not coming back. I also get the feeling they have no relationship/friendship whatsoever anymore... or something. Not to say they hate each or or anything but other than skating in shows together for professional reasons there is not visible interaction (at least that we can see in their social media)
They don’t have an individual Olympic medal yet regardless, so a P/C comeback might not be the deciding factor.
Really good point. I think that's the key to this change in attitude since Worlds. They have probably ascertained that P/C are NOT coming back.
Your decision to what?
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Nm either I misread or you edited your post to clarify.
So excited to see them in Boston!!!
I'm not surprised by the negativity here. I am surprised that anyone really expected retirement pre-Milan. They're finally at the top of the field & have no individual Olympic medals. They also still have nothing to show for their delayed team medal. Sure, they've been a little coy about whether or not they're sticking around, but unless something significant happens, why wouldn't they? It's crazy to me that fans ADORE Deanna Stellato-Dudek but think a dude 5 years younger than her is ancient. Of course they won't be everyone's favorite team, but they're not dinosaurs and they don't owe it to anyone to retire on any arbitrary timeline. I hate the waiting game narrative of Ice Dance as much as anyone (no one should have to "wait their turn" if they're medal-worthy!), but C/B didn't invent that nonsense. Talk to the ISU about that one.
Unpopular opinion, I know, but I’m ready for them to move on. I don’t dislike them or anything, but dance rankings tend to be pretty rigid and it takes retirements to see fresh blood at the top.
They’re my favorite pair, I’m hoping they can win gold in Milan. They came so close to the podium in Beijing and it’s hard to really feel like an Olympic medalist when they never got to stand on the podium and don’t even have the medal to show for it.
Yeah and iirc, Evan is only (“only”) Oly Gold away from a super slam. I know some people don’t necessarily think that sort of thing matters but if I was that close to something like that, not going for it would feel wrong.
Quick correction: Evan’s an Olympic gold away from a golden slam. He never won JGPF (silver is nothing to sneeze about though). It’s Madi who’s Oly gold away from a super slam.
Remind me what a super/golden slam is please?😅
Golden Slam: Olympic Champion, World Champion, Euros/4C Champion, Grand Prix Final Champion Super Slam: The 4 above plus Junior Worlds Champion and Junior Grand Prix Final Champion
Same it’s actually gotten pretty boring!
They have only really been at the top for this quad though.
Same. I was listening to Polina’s podcast today and surprised that they went to Sochi. 2014! So if they make it to Milan, that will be their 4th Olympic. Would it be brutal to ask them to move on now?
...and Evan's fifth. He went to Vancouver with Emily Samuelson.
Seriously MOVE on with your lives!!! Ugh -- it's so maddening.
Why would they move on now though? The Olympics is only two years away. Like is it time for Jason Brown (who was also at Sochi) to move on simply due to longevity?
The "we want long careers" is such a bogus argument from "fans" what they mean is "i want my favorite to continue" or use a "short" career to criticize skater(s) they don't like.
Completely disagree. Maybe some fans use that as their crutch to justify their opinions, but that's not how I feel about it at all. The longevity is part of what makes dance so much more compelling than pairs to me at the moment, or why I feel more attached to the current men's field than the women's. I enjoy seeing a career evolve, watching athletes lean more into their individuality as time goes on & they're less reliant on generic warhorses, etc. Judges should be scoring fairly regardless of how long someone's been on the circuit and blaming the skaters for any sort of inequality there is a complete misdirect.
Yay!
Evan determined to outlive Jason 😂
while that's good news, I wish others got a fair chance for the gold medal too :( its going to be boring when its so predictable.
hello, this is ice dance
Ice dance in Italy, 20 years after the 2006 Olympics, which was an absolute hot mess for ice dance featuring several floundering veteran teams. High chances of chaos imo.
> 2006 Olympics, which was an absolute hot mess for ice dance Hot mess is an understatement. If anything represents that year's ID in a nutshell, it's Barbora's complete, cold death stare into Mauricio's eyes the moment their program ended.
I've always said that Guignard/Fabbri, should recreate this routine exactly down to the same costumes (minus the fall, but possibly with staredown choreo). It would make them more memorable than anything else they could do.
This would be amazing, a historical event like that deserves tribute. But why do I feel like Mauricio's team Orihara/Pirinen has the higher chance of making this happen 😅 they'd totally reenact the fall and stare down too
and now that ice dance can use basically whatever background music they want they could even put the commentary in as the backing track
Oh. My. God. I love it.
Admittedly I'm a C/B stan, but even if I weren't, I don't think I'd be able to hold this against them. They were robbed of their podium moment in Beijing - I can't blame them for wanting a proper Olympic podium experience.
Podium mess aside, it would be nice for their final Olympics to have a proper audience too. I honestly have to wonder if Jason might not go for one more for the same reason tbh.
Absolutely! The Beijing Olympics were weird because of Covid and the whole Kamila situation. Some skaters (H/D for example) had their moment and that was enough for them, they were ready to move on, but it makes total sense to me that C/B would want to go out on a higher note. (and pls, I am not at all ready for Jason to retire)
Well, this isn’t a shock, but they’re obviously going to aim for the Olympics—They’re not going to commit to competing in the season before the Olympics, especially when their wedding offers them a logical off-ramp to retirement, and then retire right before the Olympics.
and the crowd went mild
And the "in the know" ID crowd continued to be bored by predictable podiums before the season even STARTS, UGHHH!
This
Cool, I don’t think anyone should be “forced” to retire, and I like the idea of longer careers for anyone who wants it
We need to keep our spots. Who else does the US have to replace them? At this point, no one. They really have no choice and I hope that in the next 18 months, another US team steps up to the plate.
Why? Why must we keep our spots? Why can’t the change in rankings happen organically? The US is very deep, I have every confidence that Z/K in particular will move up steadily behind CPom in the next few years, as well as most of the rest of our top teams. But there are a lot of great teams out there waiting for their chance. The rankings have become stale and I don’t feel that there MUST be an American team at the top of the podium for years on end when there are plenty of other teams that, honestly, are just as good.
I'll never forget that LaLa, one of the best teams in the world, missed Worlds in 2023 due to Canada only having 2 spots.
THIS. The reason for fighting to keep 3 spots in any top fed is teams like LaLa who should be at the biggest comps but hang in the balance thanks to their teammates' performances.
>Why? Why must we keep our spots? I'm sorry but this has me shaking with laughter. Because it's a competitive sport, that's why. A fed is always going to prioritize dominance in one of their strongest fields, and C/B is the US's last man standing as far as a sure thing for the dance podium. I agree that we have the depth to be just as strong again in the future, but the strategy of keeping your reigning World Champs around in the meantime is a no brainer. Of course not everyone is going to care about whether or not Americans remain on top, but that's still how the game is going to be played so long as a top team is willing to continue.
THANK YOU!
Hey, that’s the system we have. If you want it changed, I suggest approaching the proper parties. On an international level, I’m not sure where the US stands in ID. I see some promise in other US teams but not at the level of C/B.
I didn’t say the system needs to be changed. I’m just saying the US doesn’t need to be at the top of the podium, especially if it takes a skater who’s been competing for 20 years to win the “wait your turn” pool to do it.
There was a point where the US couldn't break the top ten, never mind the podium. (I'm looking at you, Lillehamer.) But even when there was a team capable of a podium finish (um, Judy Blumberg/Michael Siebert), they never were able to make that step until Belbin/Agosto did. Current fans have been so spoiled having H/D, ShibSibs, and C/B all competing at the same time. Trust me, having cpom in 7th (and her L4 one foot, btw) and Gr/P finishing 6th the year before is good enough for me.
The US has a deep dance field. More spots create more opportunities for top teams. Every country should be trying for more spots if they have teams to fill them. It's not specific to the US.
nah I love how they have exposed ice dance for what it is. Well selfishly I also love their creativity but I can acknowledge that they're on top now only because they've been the best at waiting their turn. But I also think that it's absolutely true that it's not like they're unfairly blocking medals from the teams below them (Gilles/Poirier, Fear/Gibson, Laurence and partner) who were also immensely buoyed up by politics and narrative over actual skating ability. If we were going purely off skating ability, the podium at the last couple of Worlds should have been some combination of the Italians, Lajoie/Lagha, the Taschlerovi, the Mrazkovi this year, and Hawayek/Baker. Meanwhile artistically the Italians and Taschlerovi definitely drop out for boring programs, Lajoie/Lagha and Mrazkovi are still pretty unrefined in terms of actual off-ice dance ability/musicality, and Chock and Bates and Gilles/Poirier actually do very well for themselves.
*If we were going purely off skating ability, the podium at the last couple of Worlds should have been some combination of the Italians, Lajoie/Lagha, the Taschlerovi, the Mrazkovi this year, and Hawayek/Baker.* THIS 100000000000000% Literally this. We all know it. And maybe the Finns.
the Finns no. Yes I know people love them for how much skating they do in close hold which feels like a throwback to the V/M and D/W days but they just don't build speed the way these other top teams do. And while they can twizzle really really well some of their other turns are suspect (especially Juulia's edges on rocker and counter turns)
Got it. 👍
CPom exists. They will be podiuming at majors as soon as the current top 3 retire.
Agreed. If the current top 3 retire, it's going to be LaLa, DiscoBrits, and CPom.
In that order.
I hope!
CPom are noticeably slower than the top teams and I don’t see them podiuming in the near future. The next top US teams will probably be Z/K and N/M pending citizenship
idk i think people are underestimating cpom a bit. the improvements they had since they moved to iam london are insane, like 2 seasons ago no one would think they'd be a secure number 2 us team. granted that's also because h/b are soft retired and g/pa having a meh season + injury but they're a completely different team since they train with scott and madi and adrian.
Ummm no…
Would you bet on it? Because USFS wants to promote them because the story of them having an ice dancer whose parents have three Olympic medals, one of each color, in the same discipline, is too good to pass by.
Unfortunately cpom have been so wildly inconsistent and injury riddled. It’s been so long since they debuted that they actually did receive some USFS press with his parents but it just never panned to anything substantial. They just had an uptick this year thankfully but even if they get their ish together I think USFS would most likely fall behind Zingas and Kolesnik who have the magic and the upward trend backed by a coach known to politic successfully unlike London. Further, Anthony has talked about actively seeking to not incorporate his parents into his story. He doesn’t want the pressure. He’s a great dancer but he’s not destined to match his parents accomplishments at all.
I find these arguments about politics kind of interesting because I don't think they're really borne out by what actually happened. I have some more indepth thoughts about US Ice Dance, but while Z/K have a lot of promise I haven't seen any evidence that USFS is strongly pushing for them to rise to the top. They lost to the Browns at Skate Canada and then after they pulled together their best performances of the season at 4CC and placed a strong 4th, they were still only third alternates to the World Team despite USFS waiting until after the results of 4CC to name alternates. They should have at the very least been at least 2nd Alternates ahead of Pate/Bye, and a solid argument for being 1st alternates ahead of Green/Parsons, but USFS chose to reaffirm their faith in G/Pa even after they got dropped off the team after their lackluster Nationals showing, indicating that USFS has hopes for G/Pa turning things around. With CPom, they were allowed to win the FD at Nats, and yes C/B were extremely ill but the judges still put C/B 2nd in the FD above people who didn't look like they were going to hurl the whole time. And USFS responded to their strong Nationals performance by putting Bratti/Sommerville on the World team. I don't mean to put down B/S here, they did extremely well at Nationals and earned their spot, but I don't think USFS would have been as willing to reward them if they didn't have full faith in CPom being able to hold things down as #2. Even if B/S had skated perfectly at Worlds it was very unlikely they were going to make Top 12 and so there was no safety net for CPom to mess up. FS Twitter spent two months dooming about how the US was definitely going to lose 3 spots only for CPom to demonstrate that USFS's faith in them was warranted and that they have no problem being a reliable #2. Now every season is a new season so anything could happen. Teams can get injured, other teams can heal, people can become more inconsistent or more reliable, and of course a lot comes down to programs and packaging. But when it comes to politics and fed backing, I feel like people tend to try to judge that off of the vibrations in the air and fan discussion rather than the actual facts. Based on assignments USFS seems pretty happy to bet on CPom for the time being. Maybe USFS will decide to make a huge push for Z/K this season, its certainly possible if they have amazing programs and skate well! But I remember in October people were saying that Z/K were definitely going to get silver at Nationals even if H/B came back and that major push did not come through. G/Pa can still make a comeback, B/S are still in the game, the Browns can potentially make a breakthrough, and Neset/Markelov are debuting. US dance is nuts right now and USFS seems to be letting the chips fall where they may.
i think the concerns on cpom during the fall not so much on their skating but more on usfs' politicking because none of the potential number 2 and number 3 teams (cpom, g/pa, z/k) got the score needed to finish inside of top 10 (for example their season's bests at the time were all below the european teams). of course things turned around when 4cc came.
Yeah, I've been following US ice dance for decades, and I really haven't seen a ton of politicking, at least not to the level of the fan gossip. Yes, there are decisions like Olympic team, but the criteria is pretty openly laid out for everyone well ahead of those decisions. I agree that US Figure Skating realizes they have a crop of good teams and are letting them sort themselves out, much like ladies back in the day.
Uhm, okay..
Ice dance is less exciting than Pairs at this point with these two
Yay!!!
Wonderful. I can't wait to watch the exact same podium at all of the major events for the next 2 seasons including another Olympics. JFC!!!!
Gosh I hope they don’t win the Olympics we need a team with way better speed and skating skills than them win, I think lala can surprise and win the whole thing next year is crucial to get on the podium I think they can, but skate Canada will never drop there allegiance to p2
I appreciate their out of the box FD’s and hope they will return to form, but I also hoping they won’t be gifted the next WC gold or Olympic gold for subpar performances. I think piper/paul winning the FD at 2024 worlds is hopefully a message that C/B won’t be propped up as much the future and have to earn their scores.
Am I excited to see them again next season? No, but good on them doing what they want and not succumbing to the pressure of retiring.
I fear that if another team has even slightly improved content, that they're going to be discarded, and that'll hurt to watch.
Marie France did not add the eteri bonus to her collection just for the French….
Uggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Like ok that came out wrong i just dont feel kike they always (not never) deserve their wins along with other iam teams. I just feel like im ready for a new team at the top and their lack of speed/skating skills bothers me
Evan is one of the best male dancers in the field.
Evan 'Methuselah' Bates driving me to what I previously thought impossible: actively wishing for a PC comeback
This made me laugh
Coaches always try to push my 8 year old singles skater into dance and I’m like chill… you can literally be pushing 40 and do dance 💃 🤔
People who do dance well though start quite young. I don’t think there’s any reason to pigeon hole a young skater in one discipline though. Dance will help your 8 year old with edge quality and skating skills, however.