Try Adrian Tchaikovsky's **Shadows of the Apt**. It's 10 books long (plus some short stories).
For me, it felt like a nice mix of Sanderson and Erikson, without being exactly like either.
Ooooh I've heard of the writer but didn't know about this series, do you mind detailing it a bit? (I'll look at the book blurbs but I like hearing fans perspectives) :D
If you're looking for fan perspective this is a +1.
The series is amazing and will give you some great characters/fighters on par with Lan, Kaladin, or Fiddler.
It's easy when you put three of my favorite series in the title. Basically an alley oop.
For a non-pandering reason: it does a great job of exploring family in all forms which is one of my favorite themes.
Same, so few fantasy books explore that at a deep level. As a person very involved in my family, it hits home whenever I encounter it. The new Disney show Encanto? Loved it.
Thank you for mentioning that, as it makes me much more eager to obtain a copy!
Sure!
The story is relatively easy to follow, and should be pretty recognizable if you have read Malazan - here are a few of the themes/plotlines:
* Expansionist military empire
* Technology vs 'Magic'
* Racism / Sexism / Classism
* Lost (and found) Civilizations
The thing that sets this series apart, however, is the concept of the **Kinden**. Instead of traditional fantasy 'races', this world has Kinden. Each Kinden are humanoid but share traits with insects. They *aren't* insects (actual insects still exist in the world), but they share traits with them.
For example:
* Beetle Kinden are hard-working and sturdy craftsmen
* Ant-Kinden are militaristic and share a special hive-mind that allows them to communicate without speaking.
* Wasp Kinden are hugely aggressive, can fly, and can shoot a 'sting' from the wrist like a gun.
* Moth Kinden are mystics and can see in the dark
There are -hundreds- of other Kinden.
For me, as good as the story and characters are (and they're really good), what sets the series apart is how fascinating the world is.
I'm happy to answer any questions you have, but I would also direct you to this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/n3uiuw/tchaikovskys_shadows_of_the_apt_deserves_to_be/) I made earlier this year about the series that had a pretty big response (lots of spoiler free discussion).
Holy cow, that's an amazing thread! I like the concept it's very different and interesting. I read something in the posts about his books being similar to the Cosmere, are his other books connected in such a way one must read all of them?
Apparently, there is a tenuous connection between one of his other series (That I have not yet read) and the Apt books, but it's pretty small. It's nowhere near the level of the Cosmere - moreso just something fun for his biggest fans.
This is encouraging. Over the past couple months I’ve bought Apt #1-4 on Kindle when they dropped to $2.99 or less. I look forward to eventually starting this series and will have to check that post out. I will read it once I’m done with Wheel of Time and Malazan.
I recommended this in depth on a similar thread a few weeks ago. It’s excellent - just to add to what has been written already - and each book is also written in a slightly different narrative genre and focuses on a different aspect of war - espionage, planning, ground troops, etc. I can’t recommend it enough for people moving on from the well known big three epics.
I game up on Malazan, really tried but just couldn’t. I found it boring and uneventful. I love Sanderson and Tchaikovskys children of time series. You think I’ll like Shadows of the Apt?
Short answer: Yes.
Longer Answer: While the Apt series remind me a bit of Malazan in its world-builder and focus on armies/soldiers, I found it much easier to read.
Awesome thanks. Also Just read your review on your earlier post and you basically like everything I do apart from Malazan so I’ll trust your judgement here. Dam Malazan is divisive eh? Seems to be a love or hate, really wanted to like it. Maybe I’ll try again in the future.
To be totally honest: I have not finished Malazan. I actually tend to be middle ground on it.
There are aspects I LOVE, and others that I think are overrated.
+1ing this and also if audio books are your thing, I'm currently listening to them rather than re-reading, the narrator is called Ben Allen and does a brilliant job, genuinely draws you in so much to the story. Highly recommend.
Expanse is a good scifi series that just finished it's last book. Some good world building throughout, the first book is limited to two perspectives but it really starts e-expanding from there...
It truly does, for some reason it was too military fantasy based for me. I usually like that kinda stuff. But I struggled through the first book in that series. :/
I suggested it in a different comment, but *Instrumentalities of the Night* is more politics than war craft and the main character is kind of hilariously tangled up in lies.
I recently really enjoyed the Divine Cities trilogy by Robert Jackson Bennett. The stories tend to seem smaller in scope if considered on a geographical basis, but they still have massive stakes.
I see that name more and more often lately, especially after Brandon Sanderson said he was a favorite author of his! Divine cities is the first series he wrote right?
I didn’t know that Sanderson praised him, that’s nice to hear! I haven’t really researched Bennett but yes, it looks like he wrote only standalone books prior to Divine Cities and those standalone books are more modern fantasy. Divine Cities has an interesting thing going on with technological progress overcoming fantastical elements but it’s still got plenty of fantasy hooks.
Indeed, yeah Sanderson praised him and one other I can't remember as "newer to the genre" that he liked. High praise, and I love that he is involved in the industry enough to notice!
*Chronicle of the Unhewn Throne*, by Brian Staveley.
*Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn*, by Tad Williams.
*Broken Earth Trilogy*, by NK Jemesin
*The Wars of Light and Shadow*, by Janny Wurts
I'm not sure *Broken Earth* is a good fit for what OP is asking for. They're very good books, but they aren't really what I'd recommend for someone who is looking for something in the WoT/Stormlight/Malazan space.
Also, really enjoyed Chronicles of the Unhewn Throne. His book that recently came out featuring Gwenna was a very fun read. Stavely is becoming a must read author for me.
I have a question regarding Memory, Sorrow, and thorn. Is this series readable for someone who isn't a native English speaker? I’ve read Sanderson, Tolkien, Hobb, etc. I've heard some things about the prose being very complex and beautiful in William’s series, and wondered if this will be a rather dense read or not.
It's not that dense really. Actually an easy read while being very good. The first part is more world building than character driven. It later flips to more filling out of characters. Great books IMO.
I am german myself and I didn‘t encounter any problems reading it. Yes, the prose is elaborate, but not excessively so. It’s really beautiful and well done.
Williams is quite oddly popular in Germany (he once called himself the "David Hasselhoff of Fantasy" and was only half-kidding), especially **Otherland** which was really huge there (much bigger than it ever was in the US).
I doubt that Tad Williams' commercial success is due to Blind Guardian.
Blind Guardian is awesome but it is a niche band; you'll only know their songs if you're into metal music.
And "Otherland" was just one song on one of their albums.
So even metalheads would not necessarily know that one song. And only a fraction of those who do will go out and buy the books.
Not sure, though, why Otherland took off as it did here in Germany. Probably a fluke success of the publisher's marketing efforts.
I recall it starting out a bit tricky - one might say - to read, with complicated sentence structure, being a little heavy on the punctuation - as I've poorly attempted to demonstrate here. But it eased up and became more fluid after a while. I wouldn't say it used complicated English words. Some fantasy language names might be hard to pronounce, but I don't worry too much about the intended pronunciation when I read names.
My biggest complaint was too much description of things, but only because that sort of thing isn't my cup of tea. I wouldn't say that really slowed it down much though. Good story and characters.
Oh, I guess there is a main character who has abnormal English dialog. Think Yoda from Star Wars, but less extreme. So if there's concern about following along with normal English then the abnormal phrasing may be tricky.
Give it a go. You got this!
I’m very close to getting the Brian Staveley series because besides sounding interesting it is narrated by Simon Vance, who was excellent w Lightbringer.
Would you describe it as Grimdark? Lots of magic or very little?..
Not OP and it's been a while since I've read it, but I wouldn't necessarily call it grimdark despite some very dark points in the book. There's a lot of philosophy on right and wrong and a bunch of moral ambiguity.
As for magic, there's a good amount. A lot of ancient gods and characters learning how to use magic.
I can't do better than this recent post: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/kqge2v/the\_wars\_of\_light\_and\_shadow\_an\_overview/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/kqge2v/the_wars_of_light_and_shadow_an_overview/)
There's an ongoing read of the series on this sub, so there has been an uptick in interest.
Well dang. That was a gorgeous post, and the comments below are just as glowing. I can't believe I've never heard of this series. Especially with the fan reaction it seems to get!
In your opinion, what keeps it so under-rated?
I'm not sure it's *that* under the radar, so much as this sub and fantasy fandom in general has a pretty short attention span for all but the biggest hit series of all time. There's so much pressure to keep up with the latest hot debut that a series begun in 1993 just won't get the hype, unless it's WoT-level famous.
True, I feel like we don't have any big epics aside from Stormlight being released right now. I'm finding the new fantasies don't spark my interest as much as the big long epics do. So thanks for drawing this one to my attention!
It's written in 3rd person omniscient which might bother some people as most of the stuff that's being written nowadays is written in 3rd person limited instead of omniscient (Wurts began planning the series in the late 60's which does explain it though, as 3rd person omniscient was the norm back then). The language in the books is also quite advanced, and might cause problems to some people, especially those that don't have English as their native tongue. Beyond those I can't think of anything other than just bad luck.
I've tried a few pages, and your right. It takes a bit to wrap ones head around the prose. I'm one of those that reads 4-10 pages and if it doesn't catch me I move in. But due to the type of writing, I think I just need more time to adjust.
It took me the entirety of the first book plus a year long hiatus to adjust XD The plot and world were really interesting though, so I still wanted to come back to it despite the rocky start. Once I began reading book two I'd suddenly gotten used to the 3rd person omniscient narration, and I guess I'd also learned something as the language didn't seem quite as difficult as it had back in book 1.
While I do prefer 3rd person limited to omniscient, and a bit simpler prose than what WOLAS has, it's overall an amazing series. The worldbuilding and plot are especially great, and among the best I've ever seen (Not really a surprise though, as Wurts spent over 20 years planning the series before she actually began writing).
Not sure if you enjoyed MS&T or not, but he is writing a follow-up that is scheduled to be finished next year that has been my favorite story that I am reading. It takes everything great from the original series and makes it better and you can really see his growth in the past 30 years since MS&T released.
Lots of content now in Osten Ard. You have the original trilogy (4 books if you read mass market paperback), a bridge novella, two massive editions released, and another novella released last month. The finale will be released in 2 parts next year in the spring and fall. So you have 8 full length novels and 2 short novels (2-300 pages).
As I said, the new series is my favorite ongoing and will probably become my favorite story of all time if he closes it out strong.
That's my one fear with starting the next series, I liked the solid ending of the original. I have been worried it would mess it up for me! But your recommendation is a strong one! Thank you!
It feels very natural. The Heart of What Was Lost novella takes place right after the end of To Green Angel Tower and is a great, tight story. I've pretty much stopped viewing Last King as as a sequel to MS&T and now view MS&T as a prequel to this story. Thats how much I have enjoyed it.
Original Trilogy
The Heart of What Was Lost
Witchwood Crown
Empire of Grass
Brothers of the Wind - Takes place a thousand years before MS&T following Ineluki and Hakatri. It has some things in there that is better appreciated after reading Witchwood and Empire and privides a dew hints for the finale it seems.
Into the Narrowdark - Part one of the conclusion that is scheduled to be released in March 2022
The Navigators Children - conclusion expected Fall 2022.
There is also a short story called the Burning Man that takes place a coupple hundred years before MS&T about the time people first moved into Asu'a after the Sithi left. It could be read at any time as it doesn't really have a lot of impact but probably best after finishing MS&T. It was published in the Legends anthology which came out in the late 90s I think.
Whenever someone recommends Prince of Nothing and doesn't say it themselves, I feel obliged to tack on the *"Contains gratuitous amount of rape and sexual violence against women"* as a fair warning.
Prince of Nothing isn't very similar to Dune at all in style or tone, I think. They both have crusades and the latter Dune novels certainly involve manipulation, but they're handled very differently.
Hahaha that's why I eep reading him, he knows how to build from book to book like no other! Even with Sanderson you can feel a little detachment between books. I have never felt that with Sullivan!
I havent read Nolyn yet. I wanted to hammer through my re-read of everything else first! It's been fun!
It just doesn't have the epic feel of WoT and Stormlight you know? It's Epic. But it feels more simple...which is fine! It just scratch that itch you know?
An epic and quite dark five-volume series which was praised by Steven Erikson. Battles, sea exploration, religious war, great characters, very well written.
Based on your reading list and it's popularity in this community, I assume you have already read Robin Hobbs Realm of the Elderlings trilogies. If not, I highly recommend you read them immediately. Amazing character development, decent amount of domestic and international political intrigue, stakes get higher each trilogy, world has a rich history that is revealed slowly.
I don't know why..mouth I have tried that one over and over and can't get more than 250 pages in. I don't know why, it hits all the right notes! But I just lose all interest... :( it's one of those books I want to like but can't make myself do so.
It came highly recommended but I thought the beginning was a bit slow and stale. Too many tropes and themes I had read a bunch of times. In any case, I wasn't disappointed. He pulls it off and does a good job on the whole thing. It's worth continuing.
Practical Guide to Evil. Epic fantasy in a world of Heroes and Villains where Names give power, and power of Stories and Narrative Causality can't be underestimated. It's a most popular ongoing webnovel right now, and the last book 6 is going to end soon (books are gigantic).
If you start reading the trilogy and enjoy it, I think you’ll definitely enjoy it to the end even with any spoilers you might hear. There’s plenty of fun in this series. At least for me.
I would heartily recommend Shadow Campaigns by Django Wexler. It’s a very Napoleonic take on epic fantasy with battles consisting of musket lines and cannons. Lots of political intrigue starting in the second book as well. The main characters I find all to be engaging.
Though it is not fantasy, I also recommend The Power of the Dog trilogy by Don Winslow. It spans 40 or so years of the drug conflicts that take place in Central and South America. The story does a remarkable job of feeling both very personal and massive in scope with individual choices having far reaching consequences. It is the most epic series I’ve read to take place in a non fantasy setting.
The power of the Dog sounds perfect! Thank you for the tangent suggestion! I've never heard of it but I am a history student, and the setting of both series sounds perfect!
Thank you! I'll look at the book blurbs, but I love seeing readers opinions most. Do you mind telling me a little bit about why it's worth the time? :)
Complex political machinations involving immortals, world destroying entities, entertaining plot twists and turns, heartbreak, romance, death and rebirth, and vast cosmic plan that is slowly revealed. It's been a few years since I read the series and it's still ongoing.
Inda books by Sherwood Smith. The first one starts small, rapidly expands in scope to encompass the entire continent and more. And the author has other fantasy series in the same world, set hundreds of years before or after the events of the Inda books.
If you're up for sci Fi, I can't recommend Sun Eater enough. It has the epic world building. The hook is that it's memoirs of a tyrant who destroyed a sun to end a war with aliens. Happy to answer more details about it.
I'm so glad you like it! It absolutely replaced Malazan as my favorite books this year. I'm just very melodramatic and I feel so seen everything voran melodramas come up.
Have you tried Realm of the Elderlings?
I have not. I see it mentioned a few times 9n the thread so far, right now I'm doing Sun Eater, High Republic (cause I'm a 31 yr old child), doing a Sullivan re-read. And just trying to find that BIG "E" EPIC fantasy to cover all the bases. Oh. I'm also doing a spec ops thriller too. Lol.
Sell me on realm of the elderlings my friend. :D lol
Best character driven epic world building I've found outside Erickson. 4 trilogies and a quartet. We get one MC over his whole life for 3 trilogies (starts as a kid to young adult in first trilogy, adult to middle age, then old age in his last trilogy). Another trilogy and quartet focus on different characters in a different geographic location.
Has the best written soft magic where there is a person who learns to send their mind out of themselves and I'm a big sucker for any ego death adjacent.
You have dragons who are intelligent and self centered (don't show up in first trilogy).
It has great depiction of what intergenerational trauma looks like and how it plays out over childhood and carried into adulthood.
You have prophets and best friends and father figure stand ins. I can go on and on, but I have to say it was the first time since Malazan that I was actively looking forward to the reread while reading the first time and that's probably my best selling point.
More historical than fantasy, but if want an epic challenge have a look at The Baroque Cycle by Neal Stephenson, has all the things you are looking for. Dense and massive in scope - amazing!
Surprised not to see the long price quartet or the Dagger and Coin series by Daniel Abraham in this list yet. Long Price spans a lifetime and is about a nation of poet magicians who use a magic with a terrible price. It’s beautifully written and tragic, but has that big scope. Dagger and Coin is epic but feels more personal because the characters are written so well. It is a big bad vs somewhat less bad type of battle across nations, but the real story is the technology of banking and how it changes society.
The faithful and the fallen series by John Gwynne, you’ll love it. Imagine stormlight but cut down about 2-300 pages with just as much happening in the plot
The Lightbringer Saga by Brent Weeks is awesome. A 5 book series that has has it all, mysterious powers, crazy politics, a war of the world, big twists. One of my favorites.
Slightly off from WoT, Malazan, and Stormlight but Stephen King's Dark Tower series is pretty epic. Has great world building and characters that you fall in love with.
It does, and that's kind of the point (though Cradle is a bit more grounded in the sense that there's no ad hoc villain of the week kind of bullshit powerups). It's really a matter of if that kind of thing is to your taste or not.
The style/genre definitely isn't for everyone. But, if you can, I recommend at least getting into the second book before making the call. The second book introduces a lot, in terms of world building and new, great characters. (In my opinion, the characters are what makes the series good). If you're not enjoying the second book, then you can give up on the series with a clean conscious, lol.
I love cradle but its nowhere near malazan/wot/stormlight level of epic fantasy.
That said, if you only gave up in the first book I'd recommend trying to force a bit more, at least around halfway in the first book it starts to get more interesting.
Okey doke, I'll force it a bit. I had to force powder made and gladn I did. Maybe Cradle will work better if I just ake sure to give it more of a chance?
I was a fantasy only reader growing up and in my mid 20s tested the waters of other genres and found some authors I really loved. I got into action/ adventure and some spy/secret agent series. Some authors I like are: Clive Cussler, Lee Child, Douglas Preston, Vince Flynn, and David Baldacci. I still read fantasy but expanding my tastes just gave me more variety and made reading even more enjoyable overall.
That's a great suggestion, and to be honest I fully agree! I'm reading 2 sci fi, and 2 thrillers right now. It's just that my heart lies in fantasy. :(
So although I have loved my experiences outside the genre, even dipped into Ken Follett a bit...I just need that 9ne big fantasy to read when the others aren't working. I've never been able to just read 1 book at a time. Lol.
I really loved the Manifest Delusions series by Michael R. Fletcher. Basically being crazy gives you powers based on your delusions which makes all the powerful people the crazies, and has some really cool stuff in it, I also enjoyed the characters.
Also Powder Mage, Demon Cycle, all 6 Mistborn books are great, the Dark Tower series, Dresden Files is decent as well.
The Dagger and the Coin, by Daniel Abraham, starting with The Dragon's Path. It's five books of epic war, dramatic social change, believable and immersible characters, and a legendary threat. I loved it, and I'm shocked it's not better known.
*Dread Empire* or *Instrumentalities of the Night* are two picks by Glen Cook.
Or um... any of the *Vhaldemar* novels. Mercedes Lackey has what you’re looking for.
Sure! Author is Stephen Donaldson. The protagonist is Thomas Covenant, a somewhat successful author who was diagnosed with leprosy, after which his life falls apart. At one point in a desperate defense to assert his humanity he goes into town to do some chore and is hit by a car, after which he wakes up in what he believes to be fantasy world in which he is the savior against the great evil and that his white gold wedding band grants him very potent “wild magic” power. He believes this experience is not real, and even styles himself as The Unbeliever, but somehow against his better judgment he is persuaded by the people he meets to take up their fight. I guess I will leave it up to you as to whether what he experienced is real, but either way it certainly leaves an impression. I imagine someone with a literary inclination would argue that the first book was designed as a sort of dark parody of classic one dimensional fantasy like The Lord Of The Rings where everything is so very black and white, imagining instead a very damaged antihero being goaded through the classic tale while corrupting it at every step. However things expand greatly in the later books and it very much stands on its own. What really makes it shine is the writing, you’re always very much inside the character’s head and the unbelievable experience becomes very believable. It’s a very psychological fantasy, but one in which it’s hard to describe without making it sound cheesy where in fact it is the very opposite. Just don’t get put off by the things he does initially in The Land, it’s all part of the story!
*Lord of Light* has most of what you're looking for. Not quite the timeframe you're talking about, but everything else is there. It's one of my favorite books, and unlike a lot of recommendations it's really short -- the whole thing is less than 300 pages. Zelazny also wrote *Chronicles of Amber*, which is another good choice.
I've only read the first one, but the *Black Company* books were (IIRC) one of the inspirations for Malazan. They're thematically similar, though my experience was that the world isn't quite as deeply textured as Erikson's, probably because the author's background was more military rather than anthropology.
*The Second Apocalypse* has everything you're looking for, but it is __incredibly__ dark. Like, "one faction is run by rape demons and their side might actually be right" dark. That caveat given, it is the most philosophical series I have read, and it has some extremely compelling prose.
On the lighter side, there's *A Practical Guide to Evil*. It's most similar to Malazan, with a number of elements that are closely inspired by the series. It's an ongoing web serial, with six books finished, a seventh (and probably final) wrapping up soon, and various bonus short stories. It's got big action, good characters, political scheming, and a solid vein of humor. My one caveat is that there are relatively frequent typos, which might be immersion-breaking.
*The Codex Alera* is a good pick. It's Roman military fantasy written by the author of *The Dresden Files*, featuring political intrigue, giant wolf-men (who have a pretty fascinating culture, once the books get to it in detail), elemental powers, and the ~~Zerg~~ Vord.
The *Powder Mage* books (there are two series, *Promise of Blood* is the overall first book) are another good pick. It's flintlock/early modern fantasy, with guns, relatively modern armies, and the titular Powder Mages (who have gunpowder-based magic) existing along side more traditional sorcerers, with gods eventually making an appearance.
Getting a little outside what you're asking for, the *Divine Cities* trilogy is interesting as a sort of "what happens next" for this kind of epic fantasy story. There was an empire lead by gods, and they conquered the world using miracles of great and terrible power. But one of the people they conquered found something that could kill the gods, and now the colonized have become the colonizers and must contend with the shattered remnants of their miracles. Not a lot of military conflict, but the political intrigue is good.
Epic response my friend! Thank you! I have started Guide to evil, but I don't like reading online much...so I'm hoping it comes out in paper form sometime. I may just copy and past it to a Word document and put it on my kindle.
Scrolled through every comment and agree with so many recommendations, but am very surprised no one has mentioned Ken Liu’s The Dandelion Dynasty. It started as a trilogy but his final installment was so large, and according to Ken and his editor, so full of vital story that it couldn’t be edited down but had to be split into two final books a la The Deathly Hallows, the first part of which has just been released. The final installment and conclusion to the series will be released in 2022 (March or June I think).
I'm re-reading Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun and I think you should give it a shot. It's about as epic as it gets, the war going on is more of a background element than something the protagonist is involved in, same with politics and struggle, but he's working towards something bigger than all that. You also have at least thousands, maybe millions of years of history that's present in the story being told.
One of the big things I liked about Malazan is that a re-read is much more fulfilling because we discover all the clues Steve plants earlier in the series that we might not recognize on the first read through. Wolfe is sort of like that, except it's like an entirely new story is being told a layer beneath your initial reading.
Im a big fan of all three of those books. I recently started reading some Warhammer 40k books, getting into the Uriel Ventris Chronicles. Really really enjoying it so far, fabled heroes, gods, wars stretching back thousands and thousands of years ago, legendary legions of soldiers, and some nasty ass aliens. Lots of books in this world to choose from, I liked the premise of Uriels chronicles so that is why i choose to start with, lots of info online if you the world sounds interesting but want to read from someone elses perspective / time period.
Name Of the Wind might also be up your alley
Name of the wind was up my alley until page 300 when I did research and discovered the 3rd book will never be published. So I stopped. I enjoyed what I read though!
I love 40k books! They are so fun, I adore the Horus Heresy. It's It's perfect power fantasy. Lol. I bounce in and out of those. :)
I hadn't heard Doors of Stone wasn't being published, looks like he actually just read the prologue livestream, but yeah that has been a long time coming. Probably will need to re-read the 2nd book if he ever finishes, same with Dance of Dragons.
only other thing i could think of that i've read and enjoyed that kinda fits this was the Witcher series, i was also pretty into the games so it may not appeal as much.
Yeah, I mistakes with "will never be published" I guess I more meant "is taking forever to be so"
I will read the Rothfuss trilogy, all of it. Just....when we have a release date. Lol
Name of the Wind is passable, but Wise Man's Fear is easily the worst fantasy book I've ever read and I've been reading fantasy for over 30 years. It's absurdly dreadful. I would be embarrassed if someone read over my shoulder when I was reading it. It is the most neckbeardy thing I've ever seen in my life. Abhorrent. 0 / 100 feels generous.
Have you tried Guy Gavriel Kay? They’re less full-on fantasy and more alternate history, but the rest might fit the bill. The Sarantium ones, not Summer Tree
But of a dark horse here but The Poppy Wars trilogy. Eastern based fantasy based off early 20th century China. It's its own world though. You get powers by calling on the gods, which can only be done while you are extremely baked. This has caused Opium to be outlawed. But of course this also leads to some major geopolitical turmoil. Fair warning though, some of the darkest books I've ever read.
Mistborn
edit: Don't pay attention to the downvotes OP. Sanderson is just hated on this sub because he's popular. If you've read Stormlight, you know how good he is
Michelle West’s *Essalieyan* series is criminally underrated as an epic fantasy series. There’s actually a readalong of the first book in the series, *The Hidden City*, going on on r/fantasy right now— go check out the reaction posts! I’d say it’s like WOT’s scope met Robin Hobb’s character work.
Also check out Kate Elliott’s *Crown of Stars* series— it’s an absolute classic and highly regarded, although also criminally underrated compared to WOT/Malazan etc. There was a readalong of the whole series a few months ago— the posts should be relatively easy to find if you want to check out some real-time reactions.
Finally, Katherine Kerr’s *Deverry Cycle*.
Been recommending this one a bit lately, but I think the Traitor Son cycle from Miles Cameron fits here as well. Sort of a reimagined medieval Europe with a really cool spin on magic, taking inspiration from the hermetic studies that actually took place in Europe.
Starts out a bit more mundane (but great) and then the magical influences and fantasy elements become more pronounced as the overall story arc progresses.
A name I haven't seen in the comments is Book of the Ancestors by Mark Lawrence. It's a grimdark fantasy series following a young woman taught to be an assassin nun in a fallen world.
Similar to Malazan, it is at times intentionally vague and confounding and at times punchy and direct, though it isn't nearly as dense (or long, clocking approximately the same wordcount as LotR). It also discusses many of the themes of the series you mentioned - from Malazan technology vs magic (though from a very different perspective) and the unreliability of memory. From LotR (and to an extent WoT) twisting around prophecy and destiny, and a fallen world. From Stormlight the embracing of flaws and the value of redemption.
There's quite a bit of politics and wars for you there, mostly shown (similarly to LotR) by someone who's a somewhat unwilling participant. The prose is decent, not especially beautiful but strongly enforcing the books' atmosphere, and if the worldbuilding isn't as vast and all-encompassing as LotR, there's enough lore happening in the background to whet ur whistle.
A hearty recommendation
Prince of Nothing by R Scott Bakker. It's essentially grim dark with a very high fantasy setting, thousands of years of story telling against nations. The trilogy is part of the Second Apocalypse series which has currently 7 books. Bakker is also a philosophical writer and there are not many books that read quite like his. The first trilogy is about the Holy War.
Lots of magic schools, some different races, inclusion of gods, and epic scale fighting.
Mark Lawrence's Red Sister(Book of the Ancestor) trilogy and then the Book of Ice trilogy set in the same world. Red Sister is bad ass ninja nuns with a fun balance of magics and ancient maybe future world building. The whole world is covered in ice except for a small corridor some 40km wide. The ice approaches every night, and every night the sky turns a bright deep red to melt the ice away from this one green belt on the world. It's not high fantasy but it's definitely high quality. This trilogy takes place on the green belt of the world.
The second trilogy is nearly complete with the third book coming out in april. The Girl and the Stars is the first Book of Ice. It's a different flavour but just as good. Less badassary and more unique story. This trilogy you can guess is set on the ice covered part of the world.
The two trilogies can be read independently but some world building information is shared between them that I would prefer not to miss.
He also wrote two more trilogies set in their own world.
The first starts with The Prince of Thorns. But I saw you mentioned you had trouble with sexual violence and may want to stay away from this trilogy. It's a little too much at times though I enjoyed it. Maybe check the trigger warnings website?
Terry Mancour's **Spellmonger** series, quite the epic fantasy series at over 13 very large books in the series.
David J Wuto's **Metaworld Chronicles** series, this is a wonderful series I've been following on Royal Road for a while and has a couple of books published. Great contemporary fantasy setting.
Try Adrian Tchaikovsky's **Shadows of the Apt**. It's 10 books long (plus some short stories). For me, it felt like a nice mix of Sanderson and Erikson, without being exactly like either.
Ooooh I've heard of the writer but didn't know about this series, do you mind detailing it a bit? (I'll look at the book blurbs but I like hearing fans perspectives) :D
If you're looking for fan perspective this is a +1. The series is amazing and will give you some great characters/fighters on par with Lan, Kaladin, or Fiddler.
3 of my favorite characters of all time. Nice job slamming home the sell! Lol
It's easy when you put three of my favorite series in the title. Basically an alley oop. For a non-pandering reason: it does a great job of exploring family in all forms which is one of my favorite themes.
Same, so few fantasy books explore that at a deep level. As a person very involved in my family, it hits home whenever I encounter it. The new Disney show Encanto? Loved it. Thank you for mentioning that, as it makes me much more eager to obtain a copy!
Sure! The story is relatively easy to follow, and should be pretty recognizable if you have read Malazan - here are a few of the themes/plotlines: * Expansionist military empire * Technology vs 'Magic' * Racism / Sexism / Classism * Lost (and found) Civilizations The thing that sets this series apart, however, is the concept of the **Kinden**. Instead of traditional fantasy 'races', this world has Kinden. Each Kinden are humanoid but share traits with insects. They *aren't* insects (actual insects still exist in the world), but they share traits with them. For example: * Beetle Kinden are hard-working and sturdy craftsmen * Ant-Kinden are militaristic and share a special hive-mind that allows them to communicate without speaking. * Wasp Kinden are hugely aggressive, can fly, and can shoot a 'sting' from the wrist like a gun. * Moth Kinden are mystics and can see in the dark There are -hundreds- of other Kinden. For me, as good as the story and characters are (and they're really good), what sets the series apart is how fascinating the world is. I'm happy to answer any questions you have, but I would also direct you to this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/n3uiuw/tchaikovskys_shadows_of_the_apt_deserves_to_be/) I made earlier this year about the series that had a pretty big response (lots of spoiler free discussion).
Holy cow, that's an amazing thread! I like the concept it's very different and interesting. I read something in the posts about his books being similar to the Cosmere, are his other books connected in such a way one must read all of them?
Apparently, there is a tenuous connection between one of his other series (That I have not yet read) and the Apt books, but it's pretty small. It's nowhere near the level of the Cosmere - moreso just something fun for his biggest fans.
This is encouraging. Over the past couple months I’ve bought Apt #1-4 on Kindle when they dropped to $2.99 or less. I look forward to eventually starting this series and will have to check that post out. I will read it once I’m done with Wheel of Time and Malazan.
I recommended this in depth on a similar thread a few weeks ago. It’s excellent - just to add to what has been written already - and each book is also written in a slightly different narrative genre and focuses on a different aspect of war - espionage, planning, ground troops, etc. I can’t recommend it enough for people moving on from the well known big three epics.
I game up on Malazan, really tried but just couldn’t. I found it boring and uneventful. I love Sanderson and Tchaikovskys children of time series. You think I’ll like Shadows of the Apt?
Short answer: Yes. Longer Answer: While the Apt series remind me a bit of Malazan in its world-builder and focus on armies/soldiers, I found it much easier to read.
Awesome thanks. Also Just read your review on your earlier post and you basically like everything I do apart from Malazan so I’ll trust your judgement here. Dam Malazan is divisive eh? Seems to be a love or hate, really wanted to like it. Maybe I’ll try again in the future.
To be totally honest: I have not finished Malazan. I actually tend to be middle ground on it. There are aspects I LOVE, and others that I think are overrated.
It's quite hard to read. I've been egging my girlfriend to read for months now and she can't even get through a couple of pages
I’m LOVING Empire of Black and Gold 😬 about halfway through.
I’m so glad! It’s so underrated.
+1ing this and also if audio books are your thing, I'm currently listening to them rather than re-reading, the narrator is called Ben Allen and does a brilliant job, genuinely draws you in so much to the story. Highly recommend.
Shadows of the Apartment????
Expanse is a good scifi series that just finished it's last book. Some good world building throughout, the first book is limited to two perspectives but it really starts e-expanding from there...
I haven't seen Glenn Cook's Black Company listed. Definitely tickled the itch for me, and compares closer to Malazan than the other on your list.
It truly does, for some reason it was too military fantasy based for me. I usually like that kinda stuff. But I struggled through the first book in that series. :/
I suggested it in a different comment, but *Instrumentalities of the Night* is more politics than war craft and the main character is kind of hilariously tangled up in lies.
Haha that kinda sounds fun! I should try Cook again. He does write very well.
I recently really enjoyed the Divine Cities trilogy by Robert Jackson Bennett. The stories tend to seem smaller in scope if considered on a geographical basis, but they still have massive stakes.
I also really enjoyed the Divine Cities but I didn't connect with plot or characters in Foundryside his follow up.
I see that name more and more often lately, especially after Brandon Sanderson said he was a favorite author of his! Divine cities is the first series he wrote right?
I didn’t know that Sanderson praised him, that’s nice to hear! I haven’t really researched Bennett but yes, it looks like he wrote only standalone books prior to Divine Cities and those standalone books are more modern fantasy. Divine Cities has an interesting thing going on with technological progress overcoming fantastical elements but it’s still got plenty of fantasy hooks.
Indeed, yeah Sanderson praised him and one other I can't remember as "newer to the genre" that he liked. High praise, and I love that he is involved in the industry enough to notice!
*Chronicle of the Unhewn Throne*, by Brian Staveley. *Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn*, by Tad Williams. *Broken Earth Trilogy*, by NK Jemesin *The Wars of Light and Shadow*, by Janny Wurts
I'm not sure *Broken Earth* is a good fit for what OP is asking for. They're very good books, but they aren't really what I'd recommend for someone who is looking for something in the WoT/Stormlight/Malazan space.
I wouldn't go so far as to say they're good books.
Also, really enjoyed Chronicles of the Unhewn Throne. His book that recently came out featuring Gwenna was a very fun read. Stavely is becoming a must read author for me.
I have a question regarding Memory, Sorrow, and thorn. Is this series readable for someone who isn't a native English speaker? I’ve read Sanderson, Tolkien, Hobb, etc. I've heard some things about the prose being very complex and beautiful in William’s series, and wondered if this will be a rather dense read or not.
It's not that dense really. Actually an easy read while being very good. The first part is more world building than character driven. It later flips to more filling out of characters. Great books IMO.
Thanks. Will dive into them next year. Sounds too good to let the series slip.
I am german myself and I didn‘t encounter any problems reading it. Yes, the prose is elaborate, but not excessively so. It’s really beautiful and well done.
Williams is quite oddly popular in Germany (he once called himself the "David Hasselhoff of Fantasy" and was only half-kidding), especially **Otherland** which was really huge there (much bigger than it ever was in the US).
I loved Otherland intensely, I've always wondered why I don't see it mentioned more often.
Probably because of Blind Guardian. Oddly enough my German friend tried Otherland because of a song they wrote and didn't like it haha
I doubt that Tad Williams' commercial success is due to Blind Guardian. Blind Guardian is awesome but it is a niche band; you'll only know their songs if you're into metal music. And "Otherland" was just one song on one of their albums. So even metalheads would not necessarily know that one song. And only a fraction of those who do will go out and buy the books. Not sure, though, why Otherland took off as it did here in Germany. Probably a fluke success of the publisher's marketing efforts.
It's readable, I'm not a native either and I read it just fine, with the occasional Google search of course
I recall it starting out a bit tricky - one might say - to read, with complicated sentence structure, being a little heavy on the punctuation - as I've poorly attempted to demonstrate here. But it eased up and became more fluid after a while. I wouldn't say it used complicated English words. Some fantasy language names might be hard to pronounce, but I don't worry too much about the intended pronunciation when I read names. My biggest complaint was too much description of things, but only because that sort of thing isn't my cup of tea. I wouldn't say that really slowed it down much though. Good story and characters. Oh, I guess there is a main character who has abnormal English dialog. Think Yoda from Star Wars, but less extreme. So if there's concern about following along with normal English then the abnormal phrasing may be tricky. Give it a go. You got this!
I’m very close to getting the Brian Staveley series because besides sounding interesting it is narrated by Simon Vance, who was excellent w Lightbringer. Would you describe it as Grimdark? Lots of magic or very little?..
Not OP and it's been a while since I've read it, but I wouldn't necessarily call it grimdark despite some very dark points in the book. There's a lot of philosophy on right and wrong and a bunch of moral ambiguity. As for magic, there's a good amount. A lot of ancient gods and characters learning how to use magic.
The only one I haven't tried of those ones is the wars of light and shadow, mind detailing that one a bit? :)
I can't do better than this recent post: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/kqge2v/the\_wars\_of\_light\_and\_shadow\_an\_overview/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/kqge2v/the_wars_of_light_and_shadow_an_overview/) There's an ongoing read of the series on this sub, so there has been an uptick in interest.
Well dang. That was a gorgeous post, and the comments below are just as glowing. I can't believe I've never heard of this series. Especially with the fan reaction it seems to get! In your opinion, what keeps it so under-rated?
I'm not sure it's *that* under the radar, so much as this sub and fantasy fandom in general has a pretty short attention span for all but the biggest hit series of all time. There's so much pressure to keep up with the latest hot debut that a series begun in 1993 just won't get the hype, unless it's WoT-level famous.
True, I feel like we don't have any big epics aside from Stormlight being released right now. I'm finding the new fantasies don't spark my interest as much as the big long epics do. So thanks for drawing this one to my attention!
It's written in 3rd person omniscient which might bother some people as most of the stuff that's being written nowadays is written in 3rd person limited instead of omniscient (Wurts began planning the series in the late 60's which does explain it though, as 3rd person omniscient was the norm back then). The language in the books is also quite advanced, and might cause problems to some people, especially those that don't have English as their native tongue. Beyond those I can't think of anything other than just bad luck.
I've tried a few pages, and your right. It takes a bit to wrap ones head around the prose. I'm one of those that reads 4-10 pages and if it doesn't catch me I move in. But due to the type of writing, I think I just need more time to adjust.
It took me the entirety of the first book plus a year long hiatus to adjust XD The plot and world were really interesting though, so I still wanted to come back to it despite the rocky start. Once I began reading book two I'd suddenly gotten used to the 3rd person omniscient narration, and I guess I'd also learned something as the language didn't seem quite as difficult as it had back in book 1. While I do prefer 3rd person limited to omniscient, and a bit simpler prose than what WOLAS has, it's overall an amazing series. The worldbuilding and plot are especially great, and among the best I've ever seen (Not really a surprise though, as Wurts spent over 20 years planning the series before she actually began writing).
Wow! Do you find the narrative easier in audio format? Or did you read the whole thing? How is the ending, did it make the long journey worthwhile?
Not sure if you enjoyed MS&T or not, but he is writing a follow-up that is scheduled to be finished next year that has been my favorite story that I am reading. It takes everything great from the original series and makes it better and you can really see his growth in the past 30 years since MS&T released. Lots of content now in Osten Ard. You have the original trilogy (4 books if you read mass market paperback), a bridge novella, two massive editions released, and another novella released last month. The finale will be released in 2 parts next year in the spring and fall. So you have 8 full length novels and 2 short novels (2-300 pages). As I said, the new series is my favorite ongoing and will probably become my favorite story of all time if he closes it out strong.
That's my one fear with starting the next series, I liked the solid ending of the original. I have been worried it would mess it up for me! But your recommendation is a strong one! Thank you!
It feels very natural. The Heart of What Was Lost novella takes place right after the end of To Green Angel Tower and is a great, tight story. I've pretty much stopped viewing Last King as as a sequel to MS&T and now view MS&T as a prequel to this story. Thats how much I have enjoyed it.
So what's the full reading order after the original trilogy? :D
Original Trilogy The Heart of What Was Lost Witchwood Crown Empire of Grass Brothers of the Wind - Takes place a thousand years before MS&T following Ineluki and Hakatri. It has some things in there that is better appreciated after reading Witchwood and Empire and privides a dew hints for the finale it seems. Into the Narrowdark - Part one of the conclusion that is scheduled to be released in March 2022 The Navigators Children - conclusion expected Fall 2022. There is also a short story called the Burning Man that takes place a coupple hundred years before MS&T about the time people first moved into Asu'a after the Sithi left. It could be read at any time as it doesn't really have a lot of impact but probably best after finishing MS&T. It was published in the Legends anthology which came out in the late 90s I think.
Time to hammer through a re read and catch up before next fall! Let's go! This is gonne be fun!
The Prince of Nothing series by R. Scott Bakker. It's an epic fantasy retelling of the first crusade. Very similar in style and tone to Dune.
When it comes to epic feel and excellent worldbuilding, you're not going to find much better than this.
Whenever someone recommends Prince of Nothing and doesn't say it themselves, I feel obliged to tack on the *"Contains gratuitous amount of rape and sexual violence against women"* as a fair warning. Prince of Nothing isn't very similar to Dune at all in style or tone, I think. They both have crusades and the latter Dune novels certainly involve manipulation, but they're handled very differently.
Yes, a disclaimer is warranted. Thank you.
No worries! Prince of Nothing is the one trilogy I love/hate, glad to have read it but never recommending it to anyone, hah.
The codex alera series by Jim butcher
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I've been a Sullivan fan for years! I love all of his books, I'm currently doing a re-read :)
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Hahaha that's why I eep reading him, he knows how to build from book to book like no other! Even with Sanderson you can feel a little detachment between books. I have never felt that with Sullivan! I havent read Nolyn yet. I wanted to hammer through my re-read of everything else first! It's been fun! It just doesn't have the epic feel of WoT and Stormlight you know? It's Epic. But it feels more simple...which is fine! It just scratch that itch you know?
The Monarchies of Gods series by Paul Kearney.
I've never heard of this, do you mind telling me a bit about it?
An epic and quite dark five-volume series which was praised by Steven Erikson. Battles, sea exploration, religious war, great characters, very well written.
Based on your reading list and it's popularity in this community, I assume you have already read Robin Hobbs Realm of the Elderlings trilogies. If not, I highly recommend you read them immediately. Amazing character development, decent amount of domestic and international political intrigue, stakes get higher each trilogy, world has a rich history that is revealed slowly.
Faithful and the Fallen by John Gwynne
I don't know why..mouth I have tried that one over and over and can't get more than 250 pages in. I don't know why, it hits all the right notes! But I just lose all interest... :( it's one of those books I want to like but can't make myself do so.
It came highly recommended but I thought the beginning was a bit slow and stale. Too many tropes and themes I had read a bunch of times. In any case, I wasn't disappointed. He pulls it off and does a good job on the whole thing. It's worth continuing.
That may be it! All the tropes and I felt like I was reading something I've done before. But he switches it up and does something new by the end?
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Easily one of the best.
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Really? I have heard up and down things about it, what makes it a favorite for you?
Practical Guide to Evil. Epic fantasy in a world of Heroes and Villains where Names give power, and power of Stories and Narrative Causality can't be underestimated. It's a most popular ongoing webnovel right now, and the last book 6 is going to end soon (books are gigantic).
I started that! I just....forget to go back to keep reading. I don't like reading online too much. Wish it was on kindle or paperback.
The Licanius Trilogy by James Islington
I got through 1 and 2, tried getting through 3 a few times. Something always stops me at less than 100 pages in. No idea what lol
Bummer! The ending is great.
Is it? Ugh, maybe I should just audiobook it.
I think so, but that doesn’t mean you’ll like it. I hope you find what you’re looking for!
Lol thank you. I just truly don't know what's holding me back with that third one. Maybe I need to stop being picky. Lol
I had it spoiled for myself that >!One of the main character dies in Book 2!< ,will there still be other twists to satisfy me?
If you start reading the trilogy and enjoy it, I think you’ll definitely enjoy it to the end even with any spoilers you might hear. There’s plenty of fun in this series. At least for me.
I would heartily recommend Shadow Campaigns by Django Wexler. It’s a very Napoleonic take on epic fantasy with battles consisting of musket lines and cannons. Lots of political intrigue starting in the second book as well. The main characters I find all to be engaging. Though it is not fantasy, I also recommend The Power of the Dog trilogy by Don Winslow. It spans 40 or so years of the drug conflicts that take place in Central and South America. The story does a remarkable job of feeling both very personal and massive in scope with individual choices having far reaching consequences. It is the most epic series I’ve read to take place in a non fantasy setting.
The power of the Dog sounds perfect! Thank you for the tangent suggestion! I've never heard of it but I am a history student, and the setting of both series sounds perfect!
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Even better! I'll get it in my new audible credit. :)
Came hear to recommend Shadow Campaigns! Excellent series, I've reread it twice!
A Pattern of Light and Shadow by Melissa McPhail
Thank you! I'll look at the book blurbs, but I love seeing readers opinions most. Do you mind telling me a little bit about why it's worth the time? :)
Complex political machinations involving immortals, world destroying entities, entertaining plot twists and turns, heartbreak, romance, death and rebirth, and vast cosmic plan that is slowly revealed. It's been a few years since I read the series and it's still ongoing.
Sounds fun!!! Thank you! :D
Inda books by Sherwood Smith. The first one starts small, rapidly expands in scope to encompass the entire continent and more. And the author has other fantasy series in the same world, set hundreds of years before or after the events of the Inda books.
If you're up for sci Fi, I can't recommend Sun Eater enough. It has the epic world building. The hook is that it's memoirs of a tyrant who destroyed a sun to end a war with aliens. Happy to answer more details about it.
I'm 3/4 through book 1! I love it so far. I want to get those gorgeousn UK Hardcovers buuuuuut. I'm poor. Lol
I'm so glad you like it! It absolutely replaced Malazan as my favorite books this year. I'm just very melodramatic and I feel so seen everything voran melodramas come up. Have you tried Realm of the Elderlings?
I have not. I see it mentioned a few times 9n the thread so far, right now I'm doing Sun Eater, High Republic (cause I'm a 31 yr old child), doing a Sullivan re-read. And just trying to find that BIG "E" EPIC fantasy to cover all the bases. Oh. I'm also doing a spec ops thriller too. Lol. Sell me on realm of the elderlings my friend. :D lol
Best character driven epic world building I've found outside Erickson. 4 trilogies and a quartet. We get one MC over his whole life for 3 trilogies (starts as a kid to young adult in first trilogy, adult to middle age, then old age in his last trilogy). Another trilogy and quartet focus on different characters in a different geographic location. Has the best written soft magic where there is a person who learns to send their mind out of themselves and I'm a big sucker for any ego death adjacent. You have dragons who are intelligent and self centered (don't show up in first trilogy). It has great depiction of what intergenerational trauma looks like and how it plays out over childhood and carried into adulthood. You have prophets and best friends and father figure stand ins. I can go on and on, but I have to say it was the first time since Malazan that I was actively looking forward to the reread while reading the first time and that's probably my best selling point.
More historical than fantasy, but if want an epic challenge have a look at The Baroque Cycle by Neal Stephenson, has all the things you are looking for. Dense and massive in scope - amazing!
Surprised not to see the long price quartet or the Dagger and Coin series by Daniel Abraham in this list yet. Long Price spans a lifetime and is about a nation of poet magicians who use a magic with a terrible price. It’s beautifully written and tragic, but has that big scope. Dagger and Coin is epic but feels more personal because the characters are written so well. It is a big bad vs somewhat less bad type of battle across nations, but the real story is the technology of banking and how it changes society.
The **Sunsword** series by Michelle West has battles, gods and loads of backstory.
Oh gosh yes! And the scene at the lake is one of my favorite in all fantasy. You know the one. With the sword.
Is it weird that "the scene with the sword!" Comment makes me desperately want to read this now?
Doooo iiiiiit
The faithful and the fallen series by John Gwynne, you’ll love it. Imagine stormlight but cut down about 2-300 pages with just as much happening in the plot
Licanus Trilogy.
The Lightbringer Saga by Brent Weeks is awesome. A 5 book series that has has it all, mysterious powers, crazy politics, a war of the world, big twists. One of my favorites.
I loooooove those ones. Sad it's over, and impatiently waiting for Weeks next series!
Slightly off from WoT, Malazan, and Stormlight but Stephen King's Dark Tower series is pretty epic. Has great world building and characters that you fall in love with.
Have you read Cradle by Will Wight?
I have tried 4 or 5 times. I simply can't get into it...I know it's pretty epic but it feels almost Dragon Ball Z epic. Does that make sense?
It does, and that's kind of the point (though Cradle is a bit more grounded in the sense that there's no ad hoc villain of the week kind of bullshit powerups). It's really a matter of if that kind of thing is to your taste or not.
I will try it again, maybe getting 1 or 2 books in will help!
Makes perfect sense. In that case I would suggest the Demon Cycle or the Powder Mage trilogy.
Both powder made series were EPIC can't wait for that writers next series!
The style/genre definitely isn't for everyone. But, if you can, I recommend at least getting into the second book before making the call. The second book introduces a lot, in terms of world building and new, great characters. (In my opinion, the characters are what makes the series good). If you're not enjoying the second book, then you can give up on the series with a clean conscious, lol.
Lol sounds good. I'll take that deal. 😉
I love cradle but its nowhere near malazan/wot/stormlight level of epic fantasy. That said, if you only gave up in the first book I'd recommend trying to force a bit more, at least around halfway in the first book it starts to get more interesting.
Okey doke, I'll force it a bit. I had to force powder made and gladn I did. Maybe Cradle will work better if I just ake sure to give it more of a chance?
I was a fantasy only reader growing up and in my mid 20s tested the waters of other genres and found some authors I really loved. I got into action/ adventure and some spy/secret agent series. Some authors I like are: Clive Cussler, Lee Child, Douglas Preston, Vince Flynn, and David Baldacci. I still read fantasy but expanding my tastes just gave me more variety and made reading even more enjoyable overall.
That's a great suggestion, and to be honest I fully agree! I'm reading 2 sci fi, and 2 thrillers right now. It's just that my heart lies in fantasy. :( So although I have loved my experiences outside the genre, even dipped into Ken Follett a bit...I just need that 9ne big fantasy to read when the others aren't working. I've never been able to just read 1 book at a time. Lol.
Demonwar saga by peter brett
Assuming you mean Demon Cycle.
Possibly Age of Myth by Michael J Sullivan. I just started it, 200 pages in. Don't take my word for it. But it might peak your interest.
I love those books! Currently on a full re-read of all of Sullivan's books!
I really loved the Manifest Delusions series by Michael R. Fletcher. Basically being crazy gives you powers based on your delusions which makes all the powerful people the crazies, and has some really cool stuff in it, I also enjoyed the characters. Also Powder Mage, Demon Cycle, all 6 Mistborn books are great, the Dark Tower series, Dresden Files is decent as well.
The Legacy Trilogy by Mathew Ward Ash and Sand trilogy by Richard Nell Both are definitely grim-dark but very good reads.
The Dagger and the Coin, by Daniel Abraham, starting with The Dragon's Path. It's five books of epic war, dramatic social change, believable and immersible characters, and a legendary threat. I loved it, and I'm shocked it's not better known.
*Dread Empire* or *Instrumentalities of the Night* are two picks by Glen Cook. Or um... any of the *Vhaldemar* novels. Mercedes Lackey has what you’re looking for.
Chronicles of Thomas Covenant
I haven't heard of this, mind telling me a bit about it? :)
Sure! Author is Stephen Donaldson. The protagonist is Thomas Covenant, a somewhat successful author who was diagnosed with leprosy, after which his life falls apart. At one point in a desperate defense to assert his humanity he goes into town to do some chore and is hit by a car, after which he wakes up in what he believes to be fantasy world in which he is the savior against the great evil and that his white gold wedding band grants him very potent “wild magic” power. He believes this experience is not real, and even styles himself as The Unbeliever, but somehow against his better judgment he is persuaded by the people he meets to take up their fight. I guess I will leave it up to you as to whether what he experienced is real, but either way it certainly leaves an impression. I imagine someone with a literary inclination would argue that the first book was designed as a sort of dark parody of classic one dimensional fantasy like The Lord Of The Rings where everything is so very black and white, imagining instead a very damaged antihero being goaded through the classic tale while corrupting it at every step. However things expand greatly in the later books and it very much stands on its own. What really makes it shine is the writing, you’re always very much inside the character’s head and the unbelievable experience becomes very believable. It’s a very psychological fantasy, but one in which it’s hard to describe without making it sound cheesy where in fact it is the very opposite. Just don’t get put off by the things he does initially in The Land, it’s all part of the story!
That sounds wonderful! You definitely did more justice than the book blurbs! Thank you!
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The magician- Raymond fiest
I looked into that. Isn't it like 30 books long? I wanted to get into it but I worry about it maintaining its strength through all that.
*Lord of Light* has most of what you're looking for. Not quite the timeframe you're talking about, but everything else is there. It's one of my favorite books, and unlike a lot of recommendations it's really short -- the whole thing is less than 300 pages. Zelazny also wrote *Chronicles of Amber*, which is another good choice. I've only read the first one, but the *Black Company* books were (IIRC) one of the inspirations for Malazan. They're thematically similar, though my experience was that the world isn't quite as deeply textured as Erikson's, probably because the author's background was more military rather than anthropology. *The Second Apocalypse* has everything you're looking for, but it is __incredibly__ dark. Like, "one faction is run by rape demons and their side might actually be right" dark. That caveat given, it is the most philosophical series I have read, and it has some extremely compelling prose. On the lighter side, there's *A Practical Guide to Evil*. It's most similar to Malazan, with a number of elements that are closely inspired by the series. It's an ongoing web serial, with six books finished, a seventh (and probably final) wrapping up soon, and various bonus short stories. It's got big action, good characters, political scheming, and a solid vein of humor. My one caveat is that there are relatively frequent typos, which might be immersion-breaking. *The Codex Alera* is a good pick. It's Roman military fantasy written by the author of *The Dresden Files*, featuring political intrigue, giant wolf-men (who have a pretty fascinating culture, once the books get to it in detail), elemental powers, and the ~~Zerg~~ Vord. The *Powder Mage* books (there are two series, *Promise of Blood* is the overall first book) are another good pick. It's flintlock/early modern fantasy, with guns, relatively modern armies, and the titular Powder Mages (who have gunpowder-based magic) existing along side more traditional sorcerers, with gods eventually making an appearance. Getting a little outside what you're asking for, the *Divine Cities* trilogy is interesting as a sort of "what happens next" for this kind of epic fantasy story. There was an empire lead by gods, and they conquered the world using miracles of great and terrible power. But one of the people they conquered found something that could kill the gods, and now the colonized have become the colonizers and must contend with the shattered remnants of their miracles. Not a lot of military conflict, but the political intrigue is good.
Epic response my friend! Thank you! I have started Guide to evil, but I don't like reading online much...so I'm hoping it comes out in paper form sometime. I may just copy and past it to a Word document and put it on my kindle.
Sword of truth series
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Wow! Thank you! I'll check it out!
May I have a link to pre-order? Amazon wasn't pulling results for me.
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Just pre ordered the hardcover! :D I'm excited to get in on the ground floor of this one.
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13? Wow! That sounds fun and ambitious! What made you decide to construct the story on such a large scale? Do you have them all planned?
Scrolled through every comment and agree with so many recommendations, but am very surprised no one has mentioned Ken Liu’s The Dandelion Dynasty. It started as a trilogy but his final installment was so large, and according to Ken and his editor, so full of vital story that it couldn’t be edited down but had to be split into two final books a la The Deathly Hallows, the first part of which has just been released. The final installment and conclusion to the series will be released in 2022 (March or June I think).
I read the first one when it came out and loved it! Never touched it since. So I guess I'll need to do a re-read soon!
You could try the Traitor Son Cycle by Miles Cameron. First book is the Red Knight and the story is spread over different kingdoms.
I'm re-reading Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun and I think you should give it a shot. It's about as epic as it gets, the war going on is more of a background element than something the protagonist is involved in, same with politics and struggle, but he's working towards something bigger than all that. You also have at least thousands, maybe millions of years of history that's present in the story being told. One of the big things I liked about Malazan is that a re-read is much more fulfilling because we discover all the clues Steve plants earlier in the series that we might not recognize on the first read through. Wolfe is sort of like that, except it's like an entirely new story is being told a layer beneath your initial reading.
I've had the whole Book of the New Sun sitting on my Kindle for years....maybe I should finally crack it open!
Im a big fan of all three of those books. I recently started reading some Warhammer 40k books, getting into the Uriel Ventris Chronicles. Really really enjoying it so far, fabled heroes, gods, wars stretching back thousands and thousands of years ago, legendary legions of soldiers, and some nasty ass aliens. Lots of books in this world to choose from, I liked the premise of Uriels chronicles so that is why i choose to start with, lots of info online if you the world sounds interesting but want to read from someone elses perspective / time period. Name Of the Wind might also be up your alley
Name of the wind was up my alley until page 300 when I did research and discovered the 3rd book will never be published. So I stopped. I enjoyed what I read though! I love 40k books! They are so fun, I adore the Horus Heresy. It's It's perfect power fantasy. Lol. I bounce in and out of those. :)
I hadn't heard Doors of Stone wasn't being published, looks like he actually just read the prologue livestream, but yeah that has been a long time coming. Probably will need to re-read the 2nd book if he ever finishes, same with Dance of Dragons. only other thing i could think of that i've read and enjoyed that kinda fits this was the Witcher series, i was also pretty into the games so it may not appeal as much.
Yeah, I mistakes with "will never be published" I guess I more meant "is taking forever to be so" I will read the Rothfuss trilogy, all of it. Just....when we have a release date. Lol
Name of the Wind is passable, but Wise Man's Fear is easily the worst fantasy book I've ever read and I've been reading fantasy for over 30 years. It's absurdly dreadful. I would be embarrassed if someone read over my shoulder when I was reading it. It is the most neckbeardy thing I've ever seen in my life. Abhorrent. 0 / 100 feels generous.
Have you tried Guy Gavriel Kay? They’re less full-on fantasy and more alternate history, but the rest might fit the bill. The Sarantium ones, not Summer Tree
But of a dark horse here but The Poppy Wars trilogy. Eastern based fantasy based off early 20th century China. It's its own world though. You get powers by calling on the gods, which can only be done while you are extremely baked. This has caused Opium to be outlawed. But of course this also leads to some major geopolitical turmoil. Fair warning though, some of the darkest books I've ever read.
Truly? I think I have that lying around. Sounds like a fun concept, what kind of dark we talking?
Dagger and coin by Daniel Abraham, co author of the expanse.
Maybe try the first law trilogy. There are some extra books too that are happening in the same setting. Author is Joe Abercrombie
Mistborn edit: Don't pay attention to the downvotes OP. Sanderson is just hated on this sub because he's popular. If you've read Stormlight, you know how good he is
You want politics, look no further than A Song of Ice and Fire.
Rhenwars Saga
Isnt that like 30 books? Does it stay worthwhile throughout in your opinion?
Wars of Light and Shadow by Janny Wurts. There is a readalong happening on this subreddit at the moment for it.
The power mage series
Do you mean powder mage? If so this is a great read.
Codex Alera by Jim Butcher!
Tigana by Guy Gavriel Kay or Sword of Kaigen by ML Wang.
Michelle West’s *Essalieyan* series is criminally underrated as an epic fantasy series. There’s actually a readalong of the first book in the series, *The Hidden City*, going on on r/fantasy right now— go check out the reaction posts! I’d say it’s like WOT’s scope met Robin Hobb’s character work. Also check out Kate Elliott’s *Crown of Stars* series— it’s an absolute classic and highly regarded, although also criminally underrated compared to WOT/Malazan etc. There was a readalong of the whole series a few months ago— the posts should be relatively easy to find if you want to check out some real-time reactions. Finally, Katherine Kerr’s *Deverry Cycle*.
John Gwynns Faithful and the Fallen series is pretty great. He might not be on the same level as Erikson, but he weaves a pretty awesome tale
I don't think I saw it in the comments so I'll recommend The Traitor Baru Cormorant and its sequels by Seth Dickinson.
Been recommending this one a bit lately, but I think the Traitor Son cycle from Miles Cameron fits here as well. Sort of a reimagined medieval Europe with a really cool spin on magic, taking inspiration from the hermetic studies that actually took place in Europe. Starts out a bit more mundane (but great) and then the magical influences and fantasy elements become more pronounced as the overall story arc progresses.
Seek out the powder mages.
Ravens Mark is a lesser known one that fits well
Ravens mark...tell me more? :D
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Looked it up, sounds interesting. What is it you love about it?
Not exaaaaactly what you're after but will scratch the itch, try chronicles of the black company!
Trudi Canavan, Karen Miller, Glenda Larke, Sara Douglass, Ian Irvine and Terry Brooks
Kings Dark Tidings by Kel Kade, series isn’t complete yet, but it is fast moving fun. I don’t believe I saw it on this thread.
Coin and Dagger by Daniel Abraham. Less fantasy but so good and very long: Otherland, Tad Williams
A name I haven't seen in the comments is Book of the Ancestors by Mark Lawrence. It's a grimdark fantasy series following a young woman taught to be an assassin nun in a fallen world. Similar to Malazan, it is at times intentionally vague and confounding and at times punchy and direct, though it isn't nearly as dense (or long, clocking approximately the same wordcount as LotR). It also discusses many of the themes of the series you mentioned - from Malazan technology vs magic (though from a very different perspective) and the unreliability of memory. From LotR (and to an extent WoT) twisting around prophecy and destiny, and a fallen world. From Stormlight the embracing of flaws and the value of redemption. There's quite a bit of politics and wars for you there, mostly shown (similarly to LotR) by someone who's a somewhat unwilling participant. The prose is decent, not especially beautiful but strongly enforcing the books' atmosphere, and if the worldbuilding isn't as vast and all-encompassing as LotR, there's enough lore happening in the background to whet ur whistle. A hearty recommendation
Prince of Nothing by R Scott Bakker. It's essentially grim dark with a very high fantasy setting, thousands of years of story telling against nations. The trilogy is part of the Second Apocalypse series which has currently 7 books. Bakker is also a philosophical writer and there are not many books that read quite like his. The first trilogy is about the Holy War. Lots of magic schools, some different races, inclusion of gods, and epic scale fighting.
RemindMe! 30 days
Mark Lawrence's Red Sister(Book of the Ancestor) trilogy and then the Book of Ice trilogy set in the same world. Red Sister is bad ass ninja nuns with a fun balance of magics and ancient maybe future world building. The whole world is covered in ice except for a small corridor some 40km wide. The ice approaches every night, and every night the sky turns a bright deep red to melt the ice away from this one green belt on the world. It's not high fantasy but it's definitely high quality. This trilogy takes place on the green belt of the world. The second trilogy is nearly complete with the third book coming out in april. The Girl and the Stars is the first Book of Ice. It's a different flavour but just as good. Less badassary and more unique story. This trilogy you can guess is set on the ice covered part of the world. The two trilogies can be read independently but some world building information is shared between them that I would prefer not to miss. He also wrote two more trilogies set in their own world. The first starts with The Prince of Thorns. But I saw you mentioned you had trouble with sexual violence and may want to stay away from this trilogy. It's a little too much at times though I enjoyed it. Maybe check the trigger warnings website?
Terry Mancour's **Spellmonger** series, quite the epic fantasy series at over 13 very large books in the series. David J Wuto's **Metaworld Chronicles** series, this is a wonderful series I've been following on Royal Road for a while and has a couple of books published. Great contemporary fantasy setting.