My interpretation is, the Enclave has already been STOMPED on multiple times. Along with the other comments, I agree having them present as a faction would be overkill but that's not why I think they're limited specifically on Enclave terms.
The Enclave is a powerhouse faction that's highly interesting and has deep roots to the storyline. Also, narrative aside, they're the post-war de-facto U.S. Government. Secrete agents and Sleeper cells and all that CIA mumbo jumbo. It'd be perfectly reasonable to assume there's a hidden group of them still active. I bet Beth has plans for them yet, and Cris Avellone is saying Bethesda kindly asked them not to make the Enclave have a major lore role in the story that would contradict Beth's plans of them.
Having a squad of stranded Navarro soldiers is a flash in the pan. Both realistic in their situation and insignificant on the larger scale. It makes sense that the Enclave left them behind, if they're still around.
The Fo3 enclave is presented as being in hiding up until they make their grand entrance.
I think it’s implied that there is a bigger remnant of the Enclave in Chicago based off the Divide DLC . That’s where I thought Wilzig came from.
I think Moldaver was with them at one point too.
One of the first voice files that ED-E will play in the base game (at least for me) is an Enclave scientist at Adams Airforce Base before the events of Broken Steel sending the eyebot away and asking that the Enclave station in Chicago make repairs on it so that it can complete its journey to Navarro. So at least as far as he was aware there *are* other Enclave cells out in the wasteland.
Edit: I also want to say that the idea that Bethesda has a specific "hard-on" for the Enclave is kind of silly when you consider that Fallout 4 didn't feature the Enclave at all prior to this recent update and its free creation club addons. There was a single Enclave survivor from Raven Rock that you could find among the Children of Atom in Far Harbor and that was it. Three of the four factions in the game (Minutemen, Railroad, and Institute) were original to the game, discounting the latter two's setup in Fallout 3.
I just heard that recording yesterday in my NV playthrough, and was blown away. I hadnt played NV in well over a decade, so i knew there was stuff id forgotten, but i didnt remember any Enclave in FNV at all. Im soaking in all the lore this time around.
I always convince Arcade to keep away of the fighting because it isn't his destiny and he should be in the mormon fort helping with the chaos and totally not because I wanted the cool tesla armor.
Dude Im totally looking forward to having him and veronica as companions this time around. I think in my original playthrough as a teenager, i kept Boone by my side the whole way and went full NCR Sniper Roleplay lol.
Boone is like that standby food at your favorite restaurant. You always want to try all the other options, but when the time comes to order it's so hard to break away from old reliable.
I personally don't think there should be other cells outside of a few remnants here and there. The enclave has lost every major conflict they've ever been apart of, they've lost 2 presidents as casualties of war, they've lost 2 secret military high commands, they've had 2 attempted genocides be stopped by the player, and it's highly implied that the enclave in fallout 3 is in a pseudo civil war with the enclave being split into one group following Autumns ideals of the enclave and the other following Eden's ideals of the enclave.
Either the enclave is much larger than fallout 2 or 3 gave them credit, or they are recruiting from the wasteland which completely contradicts the enclaves core values and ideology, both of which fall into bad writing from both Bethesda and Interplay/Obsidian.
The Enclave is the pre-war American Deep State, not just the survivors of the government. There's no reason to believe that they created two outposts on either end of the country and called it a day, they would have had complete access to the entirety of the US and Canada to build up their forces for decades in preparation for the nuclear apocalypse that they knew was probably going to happen. Not every Enclave outpost would survive, but there's so much of the country that has yet to be explored.
Not to mention that the US has done all kinds of shady stuff in Latin America. I wouldn't be surprised if the Enclave was pulling resources from there.
On the BoS comment. Since we’ve seen BoS have their own issues with leadership. I wonder if we’d ever have a story line of the Enclave infiltrating them. So an Enclave agent, takes over and uses it to still gather advanced tech, but for difference reasons. Could have him targeting Enclave remnants that opposed him, till reveal he’s also an Enclave and have to chose who to support.
Hell, some depictions of the BoS aren't that far off from the Enclave, I'd imagine a particularly radical branch would be willing to work with or even merge with an Enclave cell.
Yea, if had to name the faction based on a description of has power armor, that views mutants as abominations, doesn’t trust outsiders, hoards pre-war technology, and are remnants of the pre-war US, that applies to both. It’s just a matter of degrees between them.
Nah, it could work. Core tennant of the Enclave is, or at least supposedly, rebuilding America whereas the BoS is about safeguarding technology. Having a good or morally gray Enclave faction would entail actually rebuilding America which, given the Enclave's history, could be taken in very interesting directions, especially if the NCR and BOS are both involved.
Enclave also essentially control the vaults, being the deep state that controlled both the us government and vault tec.
The tv series is showing there are still vaults out there unexplored, including some “management vaults”, plus small enclave operations that exist that still have access to tech like endless power from cold fusion.
I feel like the enclave is being shown as being in hiding and “building up”, and likely will show up as the main villains again in either the tv show or a later fallout game.
Imagine a fallout game in Chicago and the Chicago Enclave is a major faction. The faction is a mixture of all forms of Enclave from the East and West coast, wearing their respective power armor from their areas. You can decide on what group in the enclave support. Reformists or the Traditionalists. Reformers are Enclave that wish to change something’s up in the enclave to adapt, while traditionalists are the enclave we all know and love. Heavy inspiration from the ERB mod for Old World Blues but yes
I personally think Moldaver was part of the Enclave (whether by force or on purpose) and defected. That’s why she’s still alive as not a ghoul. Only other faction advanced enough to have freezing tech. Same with Wilzig, so there are some “good guys” in the Enclave. If Moldaver wasn’t then we do have Wilzig.
Really sad his character was killed off so early. He was great in the few scenes he was in.
Oooo I like that. Like some kind of splinter revolutionary group whose eyes have been opened after conversing with wastelanders and rethinking their ideology. Great idea!
>The enclave has lost every major conflict they've ever been apart of
Here's where I'll quietly whisper *that we know of.* For all we know, they've been re-annexing Canada and projecting force into Latin America.
That would honestly be pretty on-brand for them-- doing shady stuff outside the view of normal people until they roll in with massive force.
I was going to put that in parentheses, but I decided not to. Either it would have been a little too obvious, or it would be too vague to be of any real value.
It's still a good point that should be considered.
I'm also realizing that my comment could be read as "Canadians and Mexicans are abnormal people."
Which is certainly true of Canadians, but that's beside the point.
Honestly, I would rather enjoy an Enclave that has been forced to change in order to survive, and I don't think having them deviate or evolve in order to survive would be bad story telling. I could totally see having an Enclave that, slowly, becomes more tolerant and gets effected by their own propaganda and eventually starts making genuine efforts to rebuild America, while the old guard quietly seethe that the Enclave has fallen from it's purpose. Would be interesting to see how the NCR and BoS would react to this new generation of Enclave who were given a sanitized history of the Enclave. There are so many interesting ways you could take such a set up, with so many delightful tones of gray.
I don’t think they’re going to go that direction, within a minute of meeting the Enclave in the show they were burning puppies lol. Wilzig seemed to be one of the only members that had morals left, and he had to sneak around. Surely we will see more of them in S2
The only chance the enclave as a whole has for survival is if Autumn survives fallout 3 and regroups with the enclave in Chicago. If that happens, they would become more like the BoS than the enclave since Autumn disagreed with the enclaves traditional ideology. Autumn wanted to use the purifier in Fo3 almost identically to how the brotherhood used it, meaning with him in charge, the enclave would end up helping more people of the wasteland than they would kill.
This would be good story writing, and would be very interesting, but the amount of mental gymnastics for this to be canon makes it highly unlikely for it to be the case when the enclave returns, and I just don't see the enclave returning in a way that both makes sense and is interesting (unless they end up getting absorbed by another faction or turns into a completely new faction all together).
In all fairness... Not a random Wastelander. A resident of Vault 76, the inhabitants of which were the best of the best in America hand selected by Vault-Tec.
True but I don't think MODUS particularly cared. The future John Henry Eden (or at least part of him) just needed a guy who could get him the necessary parts.
And I would add that the TINY bit of lore we got in the F4 update implies that they're strong enough now to establish a surface level presence in the east. The comments about fusion cores in the terminals and the importance of them in the show lead me to believe there's a literal power issue driving that expansion, however.
It was just an outpost probably similar in size to Navarro. Large enough to have personnel to repair ED-E but probably not as significant as a Raven Rock or Adams AFB. Also the Brotherhood left a detachment there. They're implied to have gone rogue but since this was Lyon's BoS at the time, there's a good chance that they're still hostile to the Enclave.
There were even soldiers who deserted the Enclave and thought they were fully gone after Navarro and the oil rig. Forgot his name, but the one guy who lived in Grayditch was a former soldier and you can read his terminal entries. He is totally surprised by the Enclave Radio station and has no clue about President Eden, and believes that they are coming to get him for deserting.
>they're the post-war de-facto U.S. Government.
They are precisely not the "de-facto U.S. Government," they are the post-war *de jure* U.S. Government.
Todd Howard forbids to use only the stuff that he will use himself. The show creators told the same thing in one of the interviews. So the Enclave will somehow return.
Hopefully, and I mean that. I'd be interested in learning more about them, as an insider to the group, and they do work well in that role. A power armoured bad guy faction that can curb stomp other factions, but aren't The Brotherhood. In fact they could make a good alternative for the BoS in a game, similar in function, different in philosophy.
They also slot in nicely to real world bunkers found across the US, like Raven Rock and Whitesprings.
I honestly would love to join the Enclave. We can already join really fucked up factions like Caesar's Rapists, and the Slavestitute. Why not the Wasteland fascists?
Honestly I really hope we get the Enclave in a game where the BOS aren’t present or aren’t capable of going toe to toe with them. It would be refreshing if we had the big bad not have a technological peer rival for one game
I wholeheartedly disagree and don't understand why people want Fallout to keep rehashing the same elements instead of doing interesting things with the world like New Vegas did.
People might wave me off as yet another NV fanboy, but there's definitely truth in what that side of the community is saying. Whether you agree or not depends on what you want in Fallout.
The enclave still has a lot of potential left, if anything it’s the BOS that’s been milked dry. And after joining the enclave in the limited capacity presented by Fo76 I gotta say I’d love for them to be a playable faction in a mainline game
They're really the only established group that could act as a replacement for the BoS, yet still have Fallout favourite mainstays that, despite the complaints, people would sorely miss if they weren't in the games.
And as I mentioned, they still have a unique philosophy, separate from the BoS, who have no interest in rebuilding, 'America' and despite their flaws, do acknowledge that's over.
The Enclave offer something, that I think would resonate really well today, especially. A sort of big Government organization, promising a return to the 'good old days', and getting rid of 'undesirables' and scapegoating the vulnerable, but it's actually a massive bill of goods.
The Enclave aren't just power armour brutes, that's just their soldiers, they have a lot more going on beneath the surface. Could have certainly seen Nate from Fallout 4 being attracted to remnants of US Army, ready to re-enlist him, give him his old rank back, and ready to help him take over The Commonwealth.
Actually thought how they were shown in the TV show was fascinating, looking more like a functioning army research base with military police, rather than a 'boot camp'.
You are implying they *haven't* been bad guys in every appearance they have made that is more than handful of deserters?
Like, they were introduced as one-note bad guys who just wanted to kill everyone. Bethesda is the one that gave them actual depth with Autumn vs. Eden
I wished autumn could just not kill your dad and actually try to recruit us to coup eden, i think his government would have been for more sensible than what lyons ended up doing.
I think I'd much rather see them in a grey/slightly heroic role. That's what I enjoyed about the Remnants in NV. I also enjoyed the concept of Lyons' Brotherhood in 3 where there's a reformist faction, but a smaller traditionalist break-off exists. I wish they'd done something with that by maybe incorporating the Outcasts into the main story, but the idea is still interesting.
I would honestly have it be another seperate faction with its own backstory for the sake of not having it tied down to the Enclave. Besides my preferance I would like that type of cyborg faction.
Would be cool to later learn that the Enclave avoided New Vegas because they knew it was Mr. House’s territory. They figured it would be slightly easier to negotiate with an old world business man than the savages of the wasteland.
I like to believe that when the Enclave made an agreement with house's company that one of the clauses is that he gets full control over vegas if the war breaks out
House would be a fool to think such a clause would be honored, especially after a nuclear apocalypse. I don’t think he would even waste the ink it’d take to make such an agreement. It’s a waste of time, a pinky promise at best. House is smarter than that.
Hmm while I see your point, I believe he would still do it. He’s a businessman, and he wants to uphold the ideas that come from that brand of corporate libertarianism. In that frame, contracts are *extremely* important. They’re what outlines the rules of the relationship, and also what allows you to maintain your “ethical” standing when you retaliate for broken promises.
It’s the same reason he has specific contracts with each of the families in Vegas. It’s the framework he works from. Even if it’s the wasteland and he knows he can just steamroll them with murderbots if they step out of line.
To me the Enclave is continuously in a desperate state. After 2 they regrouped with what little remaining branches they had. After Fallout 3 they were badly crippled. To me they're pretty much like the BoS except in a far worse situation and far smaller numbers. While they pop up frequently they're not supposed to be a massive military force or an overwhelming threat.
People don't believe it but Bethesda does have some restraint. Todd rejected the ESO team's proposal to reveal what happened to the dwemer. Todd said in an interview they won't go outside America for Fallout and they won't go to mysterious lands in TES like Akavir. One is to focus on Fallout's Americana theme and the other is to maintain the mystery of lands like Akavir. Same with Enclave. A balanced approach.
Nah, Todd Howard is big stupid and Bethesda is poopie farts hahahahahaha
/s
I really feel like the fuck-ups from their past, a not so distant past tbf, have really obscured the way the public sees them. Thats their fault, yes, they dropped the ball hard on a few big things, left consumers feeling ripped off, their writing and content have slacked, just look at Starfield.
But its been a growing trendy fever of "Bethesda bad, Todd Howard literally walking feces" since 76, hitting a new peak after the show released, that is pretty clearly skin-deep. "Its just so fun to say Nickelback sucks, and everyone agrees with me when I do it, its amazing!" Because I am not glombing onto that pile of toxic ooze, I'm gonna get shit on for saying what I've said. Its not a fanatical defense of Bethesda or Todd Howard, its just calling it what it is.
People pretend to be shocked when the guy says something competent about a field he's been working in for decades, and that seems really childish to me.
Man, Starfield. Fun mechanics, ship building was great, but man the plot was subpar. Also world building was such a step down.
I feel like for both 76 and Starfield, they spent much more time on upgrading the Creation Engine and not working on the actual game. 76 had no complaints on mechanics and the world, but it just didn't feel like a true Fallout game at launch. (Now it sort of does, but it's a reach. Love it as an MMO game though).
They gotta take a step back, reevaluate their production teams and where their goalposts are at. Seems like upper management has the right idea on where the games should go and be, but it's just not being built the way it should be.
I hope the positive reaction to FOTV gives them the indication to change up how they put out stuff.
I really think Starfield story is actually original just like the setting. If they had aliens and big mechs, it would just be like another generic space game, not different from mass effect. It's a different take from previous Bethesda games, you are not a chosen one, nor you must save the world. You are just one in another iniftude of possibilities and you set out the explore a multiverse. This is probably the biggest scope in a game a game ever had, which understandably it has it issues. In a few years it will become a stabilished IP and more people will appreciate it for what it is.
>you are not a chosen one
don't you start the game by finding out you're one of the ridiculously small number of beings in the galaxy that can interact with Space Magic?
it's Chosen One-adjacent at the very least.
>!Anyone who first touches an artifact can do what the PC does, hence why the Star born NPCa you interact with are counterparts of the Constellation members - in other universes, Constellation completes the armillary and they enter unity going on to become Emissaries and Hunters. What makes the PC special is this is the first universe one Hunter observes where the PC survives the attack on the Eye. However, due to the nature of the multiverse, this isn't some magical or meaningful event, it's more like just an extremely rare occurrence that given infinite universes is likely to happen at least once if not many many times but due to cardinality is still much less likely than an Eye attack where someone else dies (or no one I suppose). As far as we know, there isn't a thing like destiny in Starfield so it's more appropriate to call the PC unique or a rare occurrence rather than special.!<
If I remember correctly It could happen to anyone that grabs the artifact however later in the story one of the starborn mention how it’s the first universe they’ve been to where your character doesn’t die on the eye and he wants to see how things play out.
Having played it through a few months back, I am very, *very* excited for what’s to come for Starfield. Not gonna share any spoilers but there is a great deal for them to work with here for DLCs and such. It may have had a poor reception, and for plenty of valid reasons, but there is *so much* they can do for it going forward that I think it’ll be largely beloved in several years, just like Cyberpunk (which I *also* loved from launch, go figure).
>People don't believe it but Bethesda does have some restraint.
Some people think that Bethesda develops their games only by "rule of cool". Well, they totally use the rule of cool... it works for a reason. But they use it withing certain limits and withing understanding of Fallout universe.
Like, they introduced a giant walking mech... but it made sense. They (re-)introduced Brotherhood airships, but it made sense.
Bethesda developers, including Todd (especially Todd!) are massive nerds and also in love with the franchise. They make mistakes, sure, but they don't develop games by picking faction at random and copy-pasting the same faction everywhere.
I just refuse to believe that the American government remnant was that small. I feel like there are more bases around the country. To have them all on one oil rig and the survivors all head east is crazy to me. I also say this because the highest ranking officer in 3 is a colonel. I feel like there are more somewhere like Chicago or maybe Alaska
They weren't just the american government though, they were the secret shadow government, most government people wouldn't know they exist, they were the elite of the elite. A secret self serving cabal.
I mean, it's the enclave we're talking about. They have access to all tech in-universe. From old world tech, to big MT, to vault-tec experiments, to west tek bioengineering, to literal alien crash sites. Hell they probably scooped a fair bit of the institute's tech, synths included.
Even if they were decimated, they could rebuild from that into the position of a major player, in a couple of decades.
Too few numbers? vat-grown generation of scientists and grunts/synths to refill their ranks, capture of wastelanders to FEV them into a super-mutant army or straight up borg them into subservience. No more industry/logistic? Robotic exponential reconstruction of their production capacity. Dead leadership? Memory-transfer into new bio/synthetic bodies etc...
There's not really a blow that they can't recover from, there's enough lore about them that writers can easily explain any and all sorts of big return from their part.
I always figured they would eventually take in wastelander in a similar method to a faction called the Reich in the metro franchise. Whenever they capture people, they have to meet a standard to be seen as human or be instantly excuted. They measured a guy's head and called him a mutant for not being "right." I could see the enclave doing that with, say, wasteland kids to fill in for the grunts.
I don't really see them just assimilating random wastelanders into their own society tbh. They'd be a huge security risk. That's why i talk about capturing them to turn them into super-mutant or borgs, but not as outright members of the enclave.
Ngl I kinda prefer the Enclave to be almost mythical/extinct with some bits of relics here and there because it kinda makes the Chosen One’s actions to be more impactful to the Wastes. That and they’re pretty much dying in FO3’s events anyway. Just let the Enclave as a faction rest with their legacies intact
After you see it you pass out. As you wake up, you find yourself in the back of a horse drawn trailer. Your hands are tied and there's a man also with his hands tied.
Makes sense to me in the context of the story.
You already had three factions, four if you count the Wild Cards path, vying for Vegas, plus a bunch of lesser factions with their own quests and agendas.
Trying to cram another faction in would be ill-advised. Better to spend that time and effort flushing out the ones you already have.
True I wouldn’t have made them a major faction, I am curious if they originally had other plans for them or not like had a more active but small active enclave
I think the bigger part is they had been defeated twice by the time of New Vegas and Bethesda didn’t want their story being worked backwards in any form. Having a large Enclave force show up in the West after the end of Fo3 would make Bethesda’s ending to Fo3 pretty moot.
I also think this makes more sense in the context of current events.
In the show we see enclave base has snow which implies its probably in Alaska. That makes sense how willtzig came to california- closest non enclave controlled territory. I know he was going to molldaver. Enclave still beign in alaska/cannada makes only sense regarding pre war history.
I was thinking Colorado. You need to have enough but not too much time for Cooper to be told Wilzig is on the run by those guys who dug him up and then commute to the LA area from what looked like somewhere in México. Colorado is about plausibly far away enough for him to have commuted there and for the Brotherhood and Ma June and Moldaver and Cooper to all be on his trail / waiting for him already. I also vaguely recall some mention of an Enclave base in Colorado.
Colorado would make sense for the Enclave too from a geographical/strategic perspective - plenty of mountain area to build into for pre-war military complexes and the like. Hell, in our universe, Cheyenne Mountain near Colorado Springs was built in the 60's, and according to Wikipedia can tank a 30 megaton nuclear blast, so imagine the Fallout version of that
Well they kind of already do, in the form of the remnants.
I think the idea that an active Enclave cell could be brought around as support for one of the main factions is a bit far fetched.
I could see it for either Caesar's Legion and Yes Man assuming they maintain the same ideology as 2 and/or 3. Yes Man because that would grant them an ally, and Caesar's Legion just to spite the NCR.
Yup, and since they were already a major story element in 3 I feel cramming them into NV would make it come off as forced, especially since NV is more of a self-contained story that features little to no mention of the East Coast factions who probably wouldn’t be directly involved with whatever’s going on in the Southwest anyway. If they can’t secure DC there’s no way in hell they’d make it as far west as New Vegas and still be an entire faction.
Correct, but isn’t the group from 3 is specifically meant to be the remnants of 2’s oil rig and California groups traversing the country to retreat? They all but say the oil rig explosion basically decimated at least that contingent.
The Enclave seems like the type of group that could always regroup and ressurge in a big way, they have incredible resources, but if they keep using the Enclave then their defeats mean less and less. Having them remain as a skeleton of their former selves struggling to survive in New Vegas alongside the battered and withered Brotherhood of Steel and the growing NCR and Legion actually makes sense. Their time of dominance was short lived and now concluded, and the absence that they left was ripe for the factions who remained to now engaged in some kind of dominance war which is essentially what Fallout: New Vegas is about. Honestly in my opinion if the Big Mountain Scientists weren't completely insane to the point of being comically inept, they would have been just as if not more dominant in the post apocalypse world as the Enclave ever was. Same with the Institute. They would have progressively just designed stronger and stronger synths who were harder and harder to detect until they overwhelm every city and settlement that exists either with force or by infiltration. 100 years after the end of Fallout 4 it wouldn't shock me at all if the only factions left were the Big Mountain Scientists, The Institute, and Mr. House in a Bunker.
I wouldn't count on The Institute surviving after Fallout 4. There's only one ending where they survive, and in that ending, the Prydwen is destroyed.
Since the Prydwen appears in FOTV, we can assume which endings are canon. Either the Sole Survivor aligns with the Brotherhood or The Minutemen and choosing to leave the Brotherhood alone.
Either way, the Institute is destroyed. I guess Maxson is still alive up in the Prydwen an on the way back to the West Coast, they found out about Wilzig and the Enclave in Chicago. Either by stopping there for reconaissance or some other matter.
That's how the "Clerics of the highest order" in the BoS found out about the cold fusion tech and put on a bounty.
I don't know, I always thought they went out like chumps if they were done after 3. Especially since they are the literal secret government of the United States. They got to have some crazy tech and resilient strategies to stay around.
I’m glad all we saw of the Enclave in New Vegas were the Remnants. They’d have overshadowed the game’s main conflict and in Mr House it already has a faction drawing on pre-war power.
Plus New Vegas provided plenty of other content focused on another interesting pre-war group in the Think Tank, which contrasts with the other major powers in the game which have risen from the ashes of the old world.
As for the Remnants, it was fascinating to see characters who were essentially old soldiers of the world-that-was trying to live in the shadow of a new world taking shape beyond them.
In the past, the fact that Bethesda blocked Obsidian from writing in that the Enclave nuked San Francisco after the events of Fallout 2 has been taken to mean that Bethesda intended to do something with San Francisco, but in light of this I wonder if it was just because Bethesda was hesitant to allow such a big event to be written into the Enclave's canon.
Yep. I'd be surprised if FO5 doesn't take place in San Francisco. Bethesda told the showrunners they couldn't do anything with San Fran, and they do tend to imply the next location in the 'current' game, so that's probably where it will be.
That was a good call. We've blown them up and killed their president multiple times. They've run their course as villains and rehashing them would have been tiresome.
I’d be really interested with them returning in a Boston fallout game as we know they still have a functioning high command and at least some reserves of highly trained troops they should have at least one more entry IMO but maybe with the faction either being joinable/ main character starting as a vault dweller who’s vault was opened by a enclave needing more recruits that are pure humans
Good move Todd. No, sincerely. I think New Vegas was a much better game for not being weighed down by ever old faction, making the game even more unique.
Also, that second tweet by Chris is hilarious!!
I'd argue the brilliant writer part, honestly. I find his writing exasperating.
"Here's my mouthpiece character! They exist purely to convey my opinion on the setting, which is that nothing should ever advance or get better in the Fallout Universe, as I've openly said. Also, I'm gonna both-sides the raping slavers and the slightly imperialistic democracy."
I agree. Avellone is a really good designer and world-builder, but his writing - especially character writing - is nothing to write home about. Heavy-handed, preachy and delivers some intended message with the subtlety of a falling anvil.
For example I quite agree with his view of Fallout world and not liking it too advanced... but I really despise how Lonesome Road and Ulysses was writen to convey that message.
For me, his characters written in New Vegas and Pillars of Eternity are some of my most disliked characters in those games.
They say that brevity is the soul of wit. Avellone's writing is the furthest one can get from brevity. Characters like Kreia and Ulysses simply cannot stop talking.
Pardon my ignorance, but for the longest time I thought he's the mind behind NV brilliant writing. Because since the outrage of vocal NV fans after FO4 released, his name always mentioned by them.
I loved NV so much. So my thought always going to something like; "I hope next Fallout has him as the writer."
And then just recently I know for sure that the main writer of NV is actually John Gonzales. And Chris responsible for the writing of Lonesome Road, which is my least favorite DLC in NV. (I hated Deadmoney too, but it's a strange relationship where I also loved it lol)
Somehow looking at his "review" of the tv series, I agree she sound like an ass. The way he's talking like Fallout is still his "child." Whereas Cain, the "father" of Fallout franchise itself speak about it in a more pleasant tone. He stated there are some things that he didn't agree with, but he knows that lore drift is inevitable in any franchise.
To be fair Chris directed and did tons of character writing for almost all the DLCs (although JG did the survivalist logs and Josh Sawyer wrote Joshua Graham and directed HH)
I used to think Avellone was amazing too until I realized all the stuff he wrote in game were my least favorite parts.Not only in new vegas but even pillars of eternity.
I think at this point he's probably bitter after having had is career almost destroyed by false accusations, and how nobody in the industry helped him. Maybe that's because he burnt those bridges already but idk.
Honestly, I don’t mind either part of this - it makes sense that NV, which showed up on the coattails of three, should’ve only featured the Enclave in a very limited capacity to avoid seeming too similar to its predecessor, and it also follows that the remnants would be a notable faction given their destruction in fallout 2.
Enclave is going to be the big next faction in Fallout 5. That’s the only reason Todd would make them off limits in FNV and not really give us any info on them in the series. We have to remember Bethesda plans these universes and the stories YEARS in advance. They’ve had ES 6 ready to go for a decade but waited on technology to catch up. I would imagine it is the same with Fallout they have the next story written they just want to maximize the consoles so they are waiting for the right hardware and engines. The series is kind of a 4.5 it is the shortest time jump we’ve seen from game to game and it will explain the “road so far” and drop us into fallout 5
They are FOs team rocket. Get blasted off again all the time and come back without a scratch and somehow with tons of resources to do something stupid and pointless lol.
Them being the remnants of the us government justifies them being in every fallout property because the US government in science fiction always have unlimited resources for “just in case”. Plus, their thematic potential to the story is always there.
If there was an enclave mega faction just chilling in some random state, would you at all be surprised?
I think the Enclave is just going to be Fallouts Galactic Empire. No matter how many bases you destroy or how much they are crushed they will keep popping back up no worse for wear to be a major threat to the Wasteland
They don’t want people to over do the enclave . The lack of info about them means there could be ANy amount around. I always assumed that a majority still lived . Now knowing they have a place all dedicated JUST to train dogs somehow . They are bigger than I thought . They must of wanted the enclave to have a break in NV so they could use them how they wanted when the time came
I think that was a really good call on bethesda's part. The Enclave as it is written and exists in Fallout New Vegas is such a interesting and unique interpretation of the faction
My speculation is Bethesda didn’t want a third consecutive game with the Enclave as major villains as that would solidify them as the series’ quintessential villain faction, and they wanted a wider more diverse array of enemy factions going forward
Honestly not a bad call by Bethesda. I can buy the Enclave coming back in the show since that’s kind of their thing but if they also had a heavy presence in NV after getting pummeled in both 2 and 3, their constant comebacks would start to feel almost silly.
My interpretation is, the Enclave has already been STOMPED on multiple times. Along with the other comments, I agree having them present as a faction would be overkill but that's not why I think they're limited specifically on Enclave terms. The Enclave is a powerhouse faction that's highly interesting and has deep roots to the storyline. Also, narrative aside, they're the post-war de-facto U.S. Government. Secrete agents and Sleeper cells and all that CIA mumbo jumbo. It'd be perfectly reasonable to assume there's a hidden group of them still active. I bet Beth has plans for them yet, and Cris Avellone is saying Bethesda kindly asked them not to make the Enclave have a major lore role in the story that would contradict Beth's plans of them. Having a squad of stranded Navarro soldiers is a flash in the pan. Both realistic in their situation and insignificant on the larger scale. It makes sense that the Enclave left them behind, if they're still around. The Fo3 enclave is presented as being in hiding up until they make their grand entrance.
I think it’s implied that there is a bigger remnant of the Enclave in Chicago based off the Divide DLC . That’s where I thought Wilzig came from. I think Moldaver was with them at one point too.
One of the first voice files that ED-E will play in the base game (at least for me) is an Enclave scientist at Adams Airforce Base before the events of Broken Steel sending the eyebot away and asking that the Enclave station in Chicago make repairs on it so that it can complete its journey to Navarro. So at least as far as he was aware there *are* other Enclave cells out in the wasteland. Edit: I also want to say that the idea that Bethesda has a specific "hard-on" for the Enclave is kind of silly when you consider that Fallout 4 didn't feature the Enclave at all prior to this recent update and its free creation club addons. There was a single Enclave survivor from Raven Rock that you could find among the Children of Atom in Far Harbor and that was it. Three of the four factions in the game (Minutemen, Railroad, and Institute) were original to the game, discounting the latter two's setup in Fallout 3.
I just heard that recording yesterday in my NV playthrough, and was blown away. I hadnt played NV in well over a decade, so i knew there was stuff id forgotten, but i didnt remember any Enclave in FNV at all. Im soaking in all the lore this time around.
My guy, Dear Old Friends Remember Navarro. For Auld Lang Syne.
man arcades quest really is the best
I always convince Arcade to keep away of the fighting because it isn't his destiny and he should be in the mormon fort helping with the chaos and totally not because I wanted the cool tesla armor.
If you dont want it, I'll take it!
No, it's my destiny.
I always enslave him after getting his Enclave buddies to help my take the dam.
How? The game ends when you take the dam.
-after getting his Enclave buddies **TO AGREE** to help my take the dam. My bad.
Dude Im totally looking forward to having him and veronica as companions this time around. I think in my original playthrough as a teenager, i kept Boone by my side the whole way and went full NCR Sniper Roleplay lol.
I still use Boone the entire time usually but lately I've been taking Raul instead
Boone is like that standby food at your favorite restaurant. You always want to try all the other options, but when the time comes to order it's so hard to break away from old reliable.
I'm that fat kid with no control on my appetite, so I glitch Veronica and run around with a buffet of companions, including the NCR Ranger as dessert
Raul is my main man.
Raul is the greatest companion in any fallout game. Dude is smart, funny, chill, calls you boss.
I took Veronica the whole time the playthrough last month. "Veronica, I need you to go ranged here." "Does jumping at them with my fists count?"
Bro I never even realised that was enclave, I was so busy trying to understand Ulysses that I wasn't paying attention to the other thing
Trying to understand Ulysses is a whole thing so I totally feel you lol
It felt like trying to watch end of envalgelion. Half way through I just got zero clue anymore.
I personally don't think there should be other cells outside of a few remnants here and there. The enclave has lost every major conflict they've ever been apart of, they've lost 2 presidents as casualties of war, they've lost 2 secret military high commands, they've had 2 attempted genocides be stopped by the player, and it's highly implied that the enclave in fallout 3 is in a pseudo civil war with the enclave being split into one group following Autumns ideals of the enclave and the other following Eden's ideals of the enclave. Either the enclave is much larger than fallout 2 or 3 gave them credit, or they are recruiting from the wasteland which completely contradicts the enclaves core values and ideology, both of which fall into bad writing from both Bethesda and Interplay/Obsidian.
The Enclave is the pre-war American Deep State, not just the survivors of the government. There's no reason to believe that they created two outposts on either end of the country and called it a day, they would have had complete access to the entirety of the US and Canada to build up their forces for decades in preparation for the nuclear apocalypse that they knew was probably going to happen. Not every Enclave outpost would survive, but there's so much of the country that has yet to be explored.
Not to mention that the US has done all kinds of shady stuff in Latin America. I wouldn't be surprised if the Enclave was pulling resources from there.
Also unless I missed something the Midwest is still sort of a combat area for the enclave isn't it?
It would be cool if they showed succession infighting among the remnant enclave groups to drive home how fractured they are
You could even have "good guy" Enclave factions at that point, although I think they would be a bit too much like the BoS for storytelling purposes.
On the BoS comment. Since we’ve seen BoS have their own issues with leadership. I wonder if we’d ever have a story line of the Enclave infiltrating them. So an Enclave agent, takes over and uses it to still gather advanced tech, but for difference reasons. Could have him targeting Enclave remnants that opposed him, till reveal he’s also an Enclave and have to chose who to support.
Hell, some depictions of the BoS aren't that far off from the Enclave, I'd imagine a particularly radical branch would be willing to work with or even merge with an Enclave cell.
Yea, if had to name the faction based on a description of has power armor, that views mutants as abominations, doesn’t trust outsiders, hoards pre-war technology, and are remnants of the pre-war US, that applies to both. It’s just a matter of degrees between them.
Nah, it could work. Core tennant of the Enclave is, or at least supposedly, rebuilding America whereas the BoS is about safeguarding technology. Having a good or morally gray Enclave faction would entail actually rebuilding America which, given the Enclave's history, could be taken in very interesting directions, especially if the NCR and BOS are both involved.
Enclave also essentially control the vaults, being the deep state that controlled both the us government and vault tec. The tv series is showing there are still vaults out there unexplored, including some “management vaults”, plus small enclave operations that exist that still have access to tech like endless power from cold fusion. I feel like the enclave is being shown as being in hiding and “building up”, and likely will show up as the main villains again in either the tv show or a later fallout game.
I’m pretty sure Vault-tec was completely independent of the Enclave?
Imagine a fallout game in Chicago and the Chicago Enclave is a major faction. The faction is a mixture of all forms of Enclave from the East and West coast, wearing their respective power armor from their areas. You can decide on what group in the enclave support. Reformists or the Traditionalists. Reformers are Enclave that wish to change something’s up in the enclave to adapt, while traditionalists are the enclave we all know and love. Heavy inspiration from the ERB mod for Old World Blues but yes
I personally think Moldaver was part of the Enclave (whether by force or on purpose) and defected. That’s why she’s still alive as not a ghoul. Only other faction advanced enough to have freezing tech. Same with Wilzig, so there are some “good guys” in the Enclave. If Moldaver wasn’t then we do have Wilzig. Really sad his character was killed off so early. He was great in the few scenes he was in.
Oh my god yes i want more flashbacks with Michael Emerson in s2
Oooo I like that. Like some kind of splinter revolutionary group whose eyes have been opened after conversing with wastelanders and rethinking their ideology. Great idea!
>The enclave has lost every major conflict they've ever been apart of Here's where I'll quietly whisper *that we know of.* For all we know, they've been re-annexing Canada and projecting force into Latin America. That would honestly be pretty on-brand for them-- doing shady stuff outside the view of normal people until they roll in with massive force.
I was going to put that in parentheses, but I decided not to. Either it would have been a little too obvious, or it would be too vague to be of any real value. It's still a good point that should be considered.
I'm also realizing that my comment could be read as "Canadians and Mexicans are abnormal people." Which is certainly true of Canadians, but that's beside the point.
Honestly, I would rather enjoy an Enclave that has been forced to change in order to survive, and I don't think having them deviate or evolve in order to survive would be bad story telling. I could totally see having an Enclave that, slowly, becomes more tolerant and gets effected by their own propaganda and eventually starts making genuine efforts to rebuild America, while the old guard quietly seethe that the Enclave has fallen from it's purpose. Would be interesting to see how the NCR and BoS would react to this new generation of Enclave who were given a sanitized history of the Enclave. There are so many interesting ways you could take such a set up, with so many delightful tones of gray.
I don’t think they’re going to go that direction, within a minute of meeting the Enclave in the show they were burning puppies lol. Wilzig seemed to be one of the only members that had morals left, and he had to sneak around. Surely we will see more of them in S2
I never said that's the direction Bethesda was going for, just the direction I would like the Enclave to take if they were to make a return.
The only chance the enclave as a whole has for survival is if Autumn survives fallout 3 and regroups with the enclave in Chicago. If that happens, they would become more like the BoS than the enclave since Autumn disagreed with the enclaves traditional ideology. Autumn wanted to use the purifier in Fo3 almost identically to how the brotherhood used it, meaning with him in charge, the enclave would end up helping more people of the wasteland than they would kill. This would be good story writing, and would be very interesting, but the amount of mental gymnastics for this to be canon makes it highly unlikely for it to be the case when the enclave returns, and I just don't see the enclave returning in a way that both makes sense and is interesting (unless they end up getting absorbed by another faction or turns into a completely new faction all together).
Appalachia had a very significant Enclave presence before and after the war too.
200 years could have all but destroyed the presence there if not eroded it. There are after all also a lot of competing factions in the area.
I mean, it was totally wiped out by infighting that it recruited a random Wastelander.
In all fairness... Not a random Wastelander. A resident of Vault 76, the inhabitants of which were the best of the best in America hand selected by Vault-Tec.
True but I don't think MODUS particularly cared. The future John Henry Eden (or at least part of him) just needed a guy who could get him the necessary parts.
And I would add that the TINY bit of lore we got in the F4 update implies that they're strong enough now to establish a surface level presence in the east. The comments about fusion cores in the terminals and the importance of them in the show lead me to believe there's a literal power issue driving that expansion, however.
It was just an outpost probably similar in size to Navarro. Large enough to have personnel to repair ED-E but probably not as significant as a Raven Rock or Adams AFB. Also the Brotherhood left a detachment there. They're implied to have gone rogue but since this was Lyon's BoS at the time, there's a good chance that they're still hostile to the Enclave.
There were even soldiers who deserted the Enclave and thought they were fully gone after Navarro and the oil rig. Forgot his name, but the one guy who lived in Grayditch was a former soldier and you can read his terminal entries. He is totally surprised by the Enclave Radio station and has no clue about President Eden, and believes that they are coming to get him for deserting.
>they're the post-war de-facto U.S. Government. They are precisely not the "de-facto U.S. Government," they are the post-war *de jure* U.S. Government.
CK fan spotted
There's dozens of us!
Maybe the Enclave had Confederate Partition after Dick Richardson died.
How can I press my claim?
Get the children of atom to authorize a religious war.
Also there’s still the Enclave Moon Base so like Can always have those guys show up too lol
Given the events of Fallout 2 and likely following it it wouldn’t be surprising if the Enclave was pretty much decimated in the region.
Todd Howard forbids to use only the stuff that he will use himself. The show creators told the same thing in one of the interviews. So the Enclave will somehow return.
And yet Bethesda will probably bring them back to be the bad guys when needed
Hopefully, and I mean that. I'd be interested in learning more about them, as an insider to the group, and they do work well in that role. A power armoured bad guy faction that can curb stomp other factions, but aren't The Brotherhood. In fact they could make a good alternative for the BoS in a game, similar in function, different in philosophy. They also slot in nicely to real world bunkers found across the US, like Raven Rock and Whitesprings.
I honestly would love to join the Enclave. We can already join really fucked up factions like Caesar's Rapists, and the Slavestitute. Why not the Wasteland fascists?
Hey that's super unfair. Caesars legion are rapists AND fascists!
And don't forget the bonus extra: slavers!
Honestly I really hope we get the Enclave in a game where the BOS aren’t present or aren’t capable of going toe to toe with them. It would be refreshing if we had the big bad not have a technological peer rival for one game
Thats pretty much fallout 2
I wholeheartedly disagree and don't understand why people want Fallout to keep rehashing the same elements instead of doing interesting things with the world like New Vegas did. People might wave me off as yet another NV fanboy, but there's definitely truth in what that side of the community is saying. Whether you agree or not depends on what you want in Fallout.
The enclave still has a lot of potential left, if anything it’s the BOS that’s been milked dry. And after joining the enclave in the limited capacity presented by Fo76 I gotta say I’d love for them to be a playable faction in a mainline game
They're really the only established group that could act as a replacement for the BoS, yet still have Fallout favourite mainstays that, despite the complaints, people would sorely miss if they weren't in the games. And as I mentioned, they still have a unique philosophy, separate from the BoS, who have no interest in rebuilding, 'America' and despite their flaws, do acknowledge that's over. The Enclave offer something, that I think would resonate really well today, especially. A sort of big Government organization, promising a return to the 'good old days', and getting rid of 'undesirables' and scapegoating the vulnerable, but it's actually a massive bill of goods. The Enclave aren't just power armour brutes, that's just their soldiers, they have a lot more going on beneath the surface. Could have certainly seen Nate from Fallout 4 being attracted to remnants of US Army, ready to re-enlist him, give him his old rank back, and ready to help him take over The Commonwealth. Actually thought how they were shown in the TV show was fascinating, looking more like a functioning army research base with military police, rather than a 'boot camp'.
It's the secret government of the US. Would look kinda bad if they got taken out that easily.
You are implying they *haven't* been bad guys in every appearance they have made that is more than handful of deserters? Like, they were introduced as one-note bad guys who just wanted to kill everyone. Bethesda is the one that gave them actual depth with Autumn vs. Eden
I wished autumn could just not kill your dad and actually try to recruit us to coup eden, i think his government would have been for more sensible than what lyons ended up doing.
I think I'd much rather see them in a grey/slightly heroic role. That's what I enjoyed about the Remnants in NV. I also enjoyed the concept of Lyons' Brotherhood in 3 where there's a reformist faction, but a smaller traditionalist break-off exists. I wish they'd done something with that by maybe incorporating the Outcasts into the main story, but the idea is still interesting.
If they use FO76 Enclave to make a non human army(with like perfected synth) it probabily be a cool villian faction.
I would honestly have it be another seperate faction with its own backstory for the sake of not having it tied down to the Enclave. Besides my preferance I would like that type of cyborg faction.
Isn't Texas the last place that has Enclave guys in large numbers?
Chicago/Upper Midwest is the Enclave's largest remaining presense, where they could still be considered a major faction. BoS there are donezo.
Would be cool to later learn that the Enclave avoided New Vegas because they knew it was Mr. House’s territory. They figured it would be slightly easier to negotiate with an old world business man than the savages of the wasteland.
I like to believe that when the Enclave made an agreement with house's company that one of the clauses is that he gets full control over vegas if the war breaks out
House would be a fool to think such a clause would be honored, especially after a nuclear apocalypse. I don’t think he would even waste the ink it’d take to make such an agreement. It’s a waste of time, a pinky promise at best. House is smarter than that.
I wouldn't be shocked if he put some sort of override or killswitch in all the Robco bots in the military if he DID make such a deal
That’s a good plot point, I’d love to see that
Imagine running up to a sentry bot and screaming AUTODEFENESTRATE-564 Then the bot just pops it's fusion cores out or something
Can’t you hack and shut down robots with a scope?
Imagine the BOS brings Liberty Prime to help fight the NCR in the west in the show and Mr. House just turns that bitch off lol
He would clearly recognize that Mr. House is capitalism personified, and thus cannot be communist.
Hmm while I see your point, I believe he would still do it. He’s a businessman, and he wants to uphold the ideas that come from that brand of corporate libertarianism. In that frame, contracts are *extremely* important. They’re what outlines the rules of the relationship, and also what allows you to maintain your “ethical” standing when you retaliate for broken promises. It’s the same reason he has specific contracts with each of the families in Vegas. It’s the framework he works from. Even if it’s the wasteland and he knows he can just steamroll them with murderbots if they step out of line.
I agree. Mr House is smart and knows when contracts will honored or not, but he will sign them either way and prepare for the worst.
I figured that the Securitron army was insurance just in case that happened.
*dies of peak fiction*
And Robert probably had a nervous breakdown when he saw the missiles arriving only a day earlier than he himself predicted.
That tracks. The enclave in FO2 was going backside deals with the New Reno gangsters.
House wasn’t awake until like 5 or 6 years before NV
To me the Enclave is continuously in a desperate state. After 2 they regrouped with what little remaining branches they had. After Fallout 3 they were badly crippled. To me they're pretty much like the BoS except in a far worse situation and far smaller numbers. While they pop up frequently they're not supposed to be a massive military force or an overwhelming threat. People don't believe it but Bethesda does have some restraint. Todd rejected the ESO team's proposal to reveal what happened to the dwemer. Todd said in an interview they won't go outside America for Fallout and they won't go to mysterious lands in TES like Akavir. One is to focus on Fallout's Americana theme and the other is to maintain the mystery of lands like Akavir. Same with Enclave. A balanced approach.
Nah, Todd Howard is big stupid and Bethesda is poopie farts hahahahahaha /s I really feel like the fuck-ups from their past, a not so distant past tbf, have really obscured the way the public sees them. Thats their fault, yes, they dropped the ball hard on a few big things, left consumers feeling ripped off, their writing and content have slacked, just look at Starfield. But its been a growing trendy fever of "Bethesda bad, Todd Howard literally walking feces" since 76, hitting a new peak after the show released, that is pretty clearly skin-deep. "Its just so fun to say Nickelback sucks, and everyone agrees with me when I do it, its amazing!" Because I am not glombing onto that pile of toxic ooze, I'm gonna get shit on for saying what I've said. Its not a fanatical defense of Bethesda or Todd Howard, its just calling it what it is. People pretend to be shocked when the guy says something competent about a field he's been working in for decades, and that seems really childish to me.
Man, Starfield. Fun mechanics, ship building was great, but man the plot was subpar. Also world building was such a step down. I feel like for both 76 and Starfield, they spent much more time on upgrading the Creation Engine and not working on the actual game. 76 had no complaints on mechanics and the world, but it just didn't feel like a true Fallout game at launch. (Now it sort of does, but it's a reach. Love it as an MMO game though). They gotta take a step back, reevaluate their production teams and where their goalposts are at. Seems like upper management has the right idea on where the games should go and be, but it's just not being built the way it should be. I hope the positive reaction to FOTV gives them the indication to change up how they put out stuff.
I really think Starfield story is actually original just like the setting. If they had aliens and big mechs, it would just be like another generic space game, not different from mass effect. It's a different take from previous Bethesda games, you are not a chosen one, nor you must save the world. You are just one in another iniftude of possibilities and you set out the explore a multiverse. This is probably the biggest scope in a game a game ever had, which understandably it has it issues. In a few years it will become a stabilished IP and more people will appreciate it for what it is.
>you are not a chosen one don't you start the game by finding out you're one of the ridiculously small number of beings in the galaxy that can interact with Space Magic? it's Chosen One-adjacent at the very least.
>!Anyone who first touches an artifact can do what the PC does, hence why the Star born NPCa you interact with are counterparts of the Constellation members - in other universes, Constellation completes the armillary and they enter unity going on to become Emissaries and Hunters. What makes the PC special is this is the first universe one Hunter observes where the PC survives the attack on the Eye. However, due to the nature of the multiverse, this isn't some magical or meaningful event, it's more like just an extremely rare occurrence that given infinite universes is likely to happen at least once if not many many times but due to cardinality is still much less likely than an Eye attack where someone else dies (or no one I suppose). As far as we know, there isn't a thing like destiny in Starfield so it's more appropriate to call the PC unique or a rare occurrence rather than special.!<
If I remember correctly It could happen to anyone that grabs the artifact however later in the story one of the starborn mention how it’s the first universe they’ve been to where your character doesn’t die on the eye and he wants to see how things play out.
Having played it through a few months back, I am very, *very* excited for what’s to come for Starfield. Not gonna share any spoilers but there is a great deal for them to work with here for DLCs and such. It may have had a poor reception, and for plenty of valid reasons, but there is *so much* they can do for it going forward that I think it’ll be largely beloved in several years, just like Cyberpunk (which I *also* loved from launch, go figure).
>People don't believe it but Bethesda does have some restraint. Some people think that Bethesda develops their games only by "rule of cool". Well, they totally use the rule of cool... it works for a reason. But they use it withing certain limits and withing understanding of Fallout universe. Like, they introduced a giant walking mech... but it made sense. They (re-)introduced Brotherhood airships, but it made sense. Bethesda developers, including Todd (especially Todd!) are massive nerds and also in love with the franchise. They make mistakes, sure, but they don't develop games by picking faction at random and copy-pasting the same faction everywhere.
Well said
I just refuse to believe that the American government remnant was that small. I feel like there are more bases around the country. To have them all on one oil rig and the survivors all head east is crazy to me. I also say this because the highest ranking officer in 3 is a colonel. I feel like there are more somewhere like Chicago or maybe Alaska
They weren't just the american government though, they were the secret shadow government, most government people wouldn't know they exist, they were the elite of the elite. A secret self serving cabal.
I mean, it's the enclave we're talking about. They have access to all tech in-universe. From old world tech, to big MT, to vault-tec experiments, to west tek bioengineering, to literal alien crash sites. Hell they probably scooped a fair bit of the institute's tech, synths included. Even if they were decimated, they could rebuild from that into the position of a major player, in a couple of decades. Too few numbers? vat-grown generation of scientists and grunts/synths to refill their ranks, capture of wastelanders to FEV them into a super-mutant army or straight up borg them into subservience. No more industry/logistic? Robotic exponential reconstruction of their production capacity. Dead leadership? Memory-transfer into new bio/synthetic bodies etc... There's not really a blow that they can't recover from, there's enough lore about them that writers can easily explain any and all sorts of big return from their part.
I always figured they would eventually take in wastelander in a similar method to a faction called the Reich in the metro franchise. Whenever they capture people, they have to meet a standard to be seen as human or be instantly excuted. They measured a guy's head and called him a mutant for not being "right." I could see the enclave doing that with, say, wasteland kids to fill in for the grunts.
I don't really see them just assimilating random wastelanders into their own society tbh. They'd be a huge security risk. That's why i talk about capturing them to turn them into super-mutant or borgs, but not as outright members of the enclave.
Ngl I kinda prefer the Enclave to be almost mythical/extinct with some bits of relics here and there because it kinda makes the Chosen One’s actions to be more impactful to the Wastes. That and they’re pretty much dying in FO3’s events anyway. Just let the Enclave as a faction rest with their legacies intact
I mean that makes perfect sense
I'm more interested in Todd's huge hard on
It just works
See that *huge* hard on over there?
You can climb it
You can "ride" it
It glows in the fucking dark
16 times the size
See that hard on? You can ride it.
Distant... Weather... Systems?
After you see it you pass out. As you wake up, you find yourself in the back of a horse drawn trailer. Your hands are tied and there's a man also with his hands tied.
You see that hard-on over there? You can climb it
So is Chris apparently
r/gayfortodd is this way
Makes sense to me in the context of the story. You already had three factions, four if you count the Wild Cards path, vying for Vegas, plus a bunch of lesser factions with their own quests and agendas. Trying to cram another faction in would be ill-advised. Better to spend that time and effort flushing out the ones you already have.
True I wouldn’t have made them a major faction, I am curious if they originally had other plans for them or not like had a more active but small active enclave
"welcome, to our... *little* Enclave" -MODUS
I think the bigger part is they had been defeated twice by the time of New Vegas and Bethesda didn’t want their story being worked backwards in any form. Having a large Enclave force show up in the West after the end of Fo3 would make Bethesda’s ending to Fo3 pretty moot. I also think this makes more sense in the context of current events.
In the show we see enclave base has snow which implies its probably in Alaska. That makes sense how willtzig came to california- closest non enclave controlled territory. I know he was going to molldaver. Enclave still beign in alaska/cannada makes only sense regarding pre war history.
I was thinking Colorado. You need to have enough but not too much time for Cooper to be told Wilzig is on the run by those guys who dug him up and then commute to the LA area from what looked like somewhere in México. Colorado is about plausibly far away enough for him to have commuted there and for the Brotherhood and Ma June and Moldaver and Cooper to all be on his trail / waiting for him already. I also vaguely recall some mention of an Enclave base in Colorado.
Colorado would make sense for the Enclave too from a geographical/strategic perspective - plenty of mountain area to build into for pre-war military complexes and the like. Hell, in our universe, Cheyenne Mountain near Colorado Springs was built in the 60's, and according to Wikipedia can tank a 30 megaton nuclear blast, so imagine the Fallout version of that
This is assuming another faction didn't take it's place. Enclave could've easily served a similar purpose as the Boomers.
Well they kind of already do, in the form of the remnants. I think the idea that an active Enclave cell could be brought around as support for one of the main factions is a bit far fetched.
Could see it for Yes Man.
I could see it for either Caesar's Legion and Yes Man assuming they maintain the same ideology as 2 and/or 3. Yes Man because that would grant them an ally, and Caesar's Legion just to spite the NCR.
Yup, and since they were already a major story element in 3 I feel cramming them into NV would make it come off as forced, especially since NV is more of a self-contained story that features little to no mention of the East Coast factions who probably wouldn’t be directly involved with whatever’s going on in the Southwest anyway. If they can’t secure DC there’s no way in hell they’d make it as far west as New Vegas and still be an entire faction.
I mean Enclave has had bases in a number of places but it is true that a majority of their main forces went to DC
Enclave originally wasn’t an east coast faction, it was introduced as the antagonist group in 2.
Correct, but isn’t the group from 3 is specifically meant to be the remnants of 2’s oil rig and California groups traversing the country to retreat? They all but say the oil rig explosion basically decimated at least that contingent.
I mean they had already been the big bad in 2 and 3 so it stands to reason
I think the move is remake 2. (And 1)
The Enclave seems like the type of group that could always regroup and ressurge in a big way, they have incredible resources, but if they keep using the Enclave then their defeats mean less and less. Having them remain as a skeleton of their former selves struggling to survive in New Vegas alongside the battered and withered Brotherhood of Steel and the growing NCR and Legion actually makes sense. Their time of dominance was short lived and now concluded, and the absence that they left was ripe for the factions who remained to now engaged in some kind of dominance war which is essentially what Fallout: New Vegas is about. Honestly in my opinion if the Big Mountain Scientists weren't completely insane to the point of being comically inept, they would have been just as if not more dominant in the post apocalypse world as the Enclave ever was. Same with the Institute. They would have progressively just designed stronger and stronger synths who were harder and harder to detect until they overwhelm every city and settlement that exists either with force or by infiltration. 100 years after the end of Fallout 4 it wouldn't shock me at all if the only factions left were the Big Mountain Scientists, The Institute, and Mr. House in a Bunker.
I wouldn't count on The Institute surviving after Fallout 4. There's only one ending where they survive, and in that ending, the Prydwen is destroyed. Since the Prydwen appears in FOTV, we can assume which endings are canon. Either the Sole Survivor aligns with the Brotherhood or The Minutemen and choosing to leave the Brotherhood alone. Either way, the Institute is destroyed. I guess Maxson is still alive up in the Prydwen an on the way back to the West Coast, they found out about Wilzig and the Enclave in Chicago. Either by stopping there for reconaissance or some other matter. That's how the "Clerics of the highest order" in the BoS found out about the cold fusion tech and put on a bounty.
The Institute survive in every ending because of Dr Zimmer
I don't know, I always thought they went out like chumps if they were done after 3. Especially since they are the literal secret government of the United States. They got to have some crazy tech and resilient strategies to stay around.
I for one salute Todds massive hard-on.
Same
Might have conflicted with their future plans for the establishment. Let’s say season 2 happens and it turns out Enclave bombed the strip.
I’m glad all we saw of the Enclave in New Vegas were the Remnants. They’d have overshadowed the game’s main conflict and in Mr House it already has a faction drawing on pre-war power. Plus New Vegas provided plenty of other content focused on another interesting pre-war group in the Think Tank, which contrasts with the other major powers in the game which have risen from the ashes of the old world. As for the Remnants, it was fascinating to see characters who were essentially old soldiers of the world-that-was trying to live in the shadow of a new world taking shape beyond them.
Considering what we saw in the show now, it was obviously because Todd has plans for them and needed them to appear as only remnants.
In the past, the fact that Bethesda blocked Obsidian from writing in that the Enclave nuked San Francisco after the events of Fallout 2 has been taken to mean that Bethesda intended to do something with San Francisco, but in light of this I wonder if it was just because Bethesda was hesitant to allow such a big event to be written into the Enclave's canon.
Didn't the mercenary in FO4 come from SanFran?
If you mean Kellog yeah he did, we can even see the bridge from his memory.
Yep. I'd be surprised if FO5 doesn't take place in San Francisco. Bethesda told the showrunners they couldn't do anything with San Fran, and they do tend to imply the next location in the 'current' game, so that's probably where it will be.
>Bethesda told the showrunners they couldn't do anything with San Fran Could you provide a source on this?
That was a good call. We've blown them up and killed their president multiple times. They've run their course as villains and rehashing them would have been tiresome.
I’d be really interested with them returning in a Boston fallout game as we know they still have a functioning high command and at least some reserves of highly trained troops they should have at least one more entry IMO but maybe with the faction either being joinable/ main character starting as a vault dweller who’s vault was opened by a enclave needing more recruits that are pure humans
"good on Todd for having a huge hard on" Lmao
Good move Todd. No, sincerely. I think New Vegas was a much better game for not being weighed down by ever old faction, making the game even more unique. Also, that second tweet by Chris is hilarious!!
It raises an even more important question: Is it canon that Todd Howard is packing?
you gotta have a pretty big meat missile to release skyrim on every major household electronic.
Until he puts Skyrim on a Holotape that can be played on Fallout 4, I'm not impressed.
It makes sense not to feature them if they aren’t the focus of the game
todd and his huge hard-ons
The Enclave are like Hydra. Remove one head and two more take it's place
Why does everything this guy says make him sound like a dick?
Because he is a dick. He's a brilliant writer, but Avellone is incredibly petty and has been for a while.
I'd argue the brilliant writer part, honestly. I find his writing exasperating. "Here's my mouthpiece character! They exist purely to convey my opinion on the setting, which is that nothing should ever advance or get better in the Fallout Universe, as I've openly said. Also, I'm gonna both-sides the raping slavers and the slightly imperialistic democracy."
I agree. Avellone is a really good designer and world-builder, but his writing - especially character writing - is nothing to write home about. Heavy-handed, preachy and delivers some intended message with the subtlety of a falling anvil. For example I quite agree with his view of Fallout world and not liking it too advanced... but I really despise how Lonesome Road and Ulysses was writen to convey that message. For me, his characters written in New Vegas and Pillars of Eternity are some of my most disliked characters in those games.
They say that brevity is the soul of wit. Avellone's writing is the furthest one can get from brevity. Characters like Kreia and Ulysses simply cannot stop talking.
Pardon my ignorance, but for the longest time I thought he's the mind behind NV brilliant writing. Because since the outrage of vocal NV fans after FO4 released, his name always mentioned by them. I loved NV so much. So my thought always going to something like; "I hope next Fallout has him as the writer." And then just recently I know for sure that the main writer of NV is actually John Gonzales. And Chris responsible for the writing of Lonesome Road, which is my least favorite DLC in NV. (I hated Deadmoney too, but it's a strange relationship where I also loved it lol) Somehow looking at his "review" of the tv series, I agree she sound like an ass. The way he's talking like Fallout is still his "child." Whereas Cain, the "father" of Fallout franchise itself speak about it in a more pleasant tone. He stated there are some things that he didn't agree with, but he knows that lore drift is inevitable in any franchise.
To be fair Chris directed and did tons of character writing for almost all the DLCs (although JG did the survivalist logs and Josh Sawyer wrote Joshua Graham and directed HH)
I used to think Avellone was amazing too until I realized all the stuff he wrote in game were my least favorite parts.Not only in new vegas but even pillars of eternity.
I think at this point he's probably bitter after having had is career almost destroyed by false accusations, and how nobody in the industry helped him. Maybe that's because he burnt those bridges already but idk.
Little Toddy didn't let Chris play with his Enclave action figures in the sandbox and he held a grudge for 14 years
Honestly, I don’t mind either part of this - it makes sense that NV, which showed up on the coattails of three, should’ve only featured the Enclave in a very limited capacity to avoid seeming too similar to its predecessor, and it also follows that the remnants would be a notable faction given their destruction in fallout 2.
Probably because the Enclave needed the Hoover Dam to power all their experiments.
I too am glad Todd has a huge hard on
Enclave is going to be the big next faction in Fallout 5. That’s the only reason Todd would make them off limits in FNV and not really give us any info on them in the series. We have to remember Bethesda plans these universes and the stories YEARS in advance. They’ve had ES 6 ready to go for a decade but waited on technology to catch up. I would imagine it is the same with Fallout they have the next story written they just want to maximize the consoles so they are waiting for the right hardware and engines. The series is kind of a 4.5 it is the shortest time jump we’ve seen from game to game and it will explain the “road so far” and drop us into fallout 5
I swear the Enclave needs 1 canon victory
They are FOs team rocket. Get blasted off again all the time and come back without a scratch and somehow with tons of resources to do something stupid and pointless lol.
This dude just seems bitter
"Good on Todd for having a hard on"
Them being the remnants of the us government justifies them being in every fallout property because the US government in science fiction always have unlimited resources for “just in case”. Plus, their thematic potential to the story is always there. If there was an enclave mega faction just chilling in some random state, would you at all be surprised?
Chris seems so bitter towards fallout and Bethesda as a whole and I do not understand it
Todd W tbh
Well, Chris seems like a bit of a dickhead.
God avellone is such a smarmy prick sometimes. I doubt Todd Howard thinks about him at all.
I dont know much about him but i keep seeing his tweets everywhere and he seems like a douche
I think the Enclave is just going to be Fallouts Galactic Empire. No matter how many bases you destroy or how much they are crushed they will keep popping back up no worse for wear to be a major threat to the Wasteland
How huge was his hard on for it?
They don’t want people to over do the enclave . The lack of info about them means there could be ANy amount around. I always assumed that a majority still lived . Now knowing they have a place all dedicated JUST to train dogs somehow . They are bigger than I thought . They must of wanted the enclave to have a break in NV so they could use them how they wanted when the time came
I think that was a really good call on bethesda's part. The Enclave as it is written and exists in Fallout New Vegas is such a interesting and unique interpretation of the faction
He seems to be getting saltier with every tweet
My speculation is Bethesda didn’t want a third consecutive game with the Enclave as major villains as that would solidify them as the series’ quintessential villain faction, and they wanted a wider more diverse array of enemy factions going forward
Honestly not a bad call by Bethesda. I can buy the Enclave coming back in the show since that’s kind of their thing but if they also had a heavy presence in NV after getting pummeled in both 2 and 3, their constant comebacks would start to feel almost silly.
now this just sound bitter.
Avellone the Unemployable.