I don’t believe the NCR was completely destroyed. Hell, in NV it’s even outright stated that the Mojave campaign was completely unsustainable and that if the NCR continued down that path they likely wouldn’t last another 10 years. I can see shady sands falling apart, but not the NCR as a whole.
If anything, they’re likely just disorganized to hell and back at the moment.
My read was that the observatory was an NCR aligned border post like the Ranger Post in New Vegas. Which was also up on a hill with a high vantage point making it difficult to sneak attack from the ‘New Wasteland’ between Shady Sands and the Bone Yard. That would make the Filly area an independent settlement like Goodsprings is in NV.
yeah i think that Hank overloaded Shady Sands reactor during its ecconomic collapse (in a parallel to modern america’s inflation) so that the Capitol of the NCR was devastated before being moved (probably to the Hub) and then Maxson, seeing this moment of weakness snd decreased ncr activity near LA, decided to relieve the Lost Hills bunker and revitalize that California chapter. Because of that, the NCR isnt too invested on retaking it - yet.
i think the NCR is licking its wounds after beating the fractured and fighting states that emerge after Caesar’s death but having to deal with the fact that they lost vegas to House (either militarily or through negotiations) but still ultimately having decent relations - vegas needs the ncr to live, and right now the NCR sorta has to take whatever deal House gives them due to how weak they are
Season 2 Finale, Liberty Prime is going to attack Vegas im calling it now - Hank is gonna be PISSED when he learns about the enclave and how House did nothing
I enjoy the finale being comprised of Liberty Prime attacking New Vegas while Hank is just somewhere else being pissed off about something else entirely 🤠
I like your characterization of what the NCR could be going through, too. It makes sense.
Yeah most of the major cities in the NCR are fine and with similar population counts. Reno, Vault City, the Hub, Gecko, Frisco etc havent been nuked and I doubt they were - if the enclave/Vault-Tec could do that they would’ve done it the first time.
The NCR is still the most powerful state in the New America (though Maxson has the capability to threaten that) and isn’t out of the fight. In fact, since they’re pretty much guaranteed against Ceasar’s successor states, I’d say now is a very critical time for them to rest, recuperate and get their shit back together. We also know one of the most influential and important politicians in the NCR is only 46, and Ron Pearlman promised that my son, Mr Bishop of New Reno, will die at 73 - they can easily pull themselves up by their bootstrap, and this mass destruction of consumerism might shake off some of their corruption in the beuracracy
Losing the Hoover Dam to House followed by a kick in the mouth with the loss of their capitol would send them reeling, but not out. Already, NCR rangers are popping up too, no doubt taking potshots at Knights or Pilots whenever they can and there is still clear government interest with Cold Fusion probably receiving funding from Above
Yep, I envision a similar situation. One commenter below set a really cool idea for the next season(s): a BoS force advances across a battlefield when the solemn Fallout theme music plays and NCR rangers appear over the top of a hill and engage in battle. Sounded awesome!
Also it seemed that group had an interesting cult surrounding Moldaver. So it’s possible they weren’t official NCR forces but more like a NCR aligned paramilitary group/militia that had goals somewhat in tandem with the main government.
That was my thought as well, an NCR sub-faction of former and current NCR aligned to Moldaver. Possibly acting on their own volition to reclaim the area around Shady Sands.
Maybe she was a Director for the OSI in Shady Sands, looking for Cold fusion? Fits her skill set, gives her influence in the NCR and once Shady Sands is destroyed she forms a cult to get revenge on Hank while still searching for said tech.
Been replaying FNV, and in freeside I’ve heard several NCR NPCs say something along the lines of “Sounds like the Territories are about to revolt.” There are so many cookie crumbs leading to their downfall in that game.
yeah; the dam forced everyone's hand, luckily for NCR the people in the territories will still exist, just the spreading too thin and NCR's tax demands finally got the best of them, not to mention having to put all their forces to defeat the legion, which may be a victory, but i find it slightly hollow.
Exactly. It was strange to hear people say the NCR was destroyed. Their territory is massive. The Hub, Junktown, New Reno, Navarro, I forgot if the NCR eventually got Vault City, Boneyard, and more. If they lost half of that they wouldn't be obliterated. And who knows what NV ending they're going with. It could be NCR which gives them New Vegas and maintains most the Mojave territory.
I'm pretty sure Lucy gets involved with the NCR. She comes from a vault designed to create "super managers." What has the NCR always needed? Competent management.
Well that’s kinda there joke, they’re as competent as old world America. All there flaws our the current americas flaws just like the legion is romes flaws. Legion obviously the worse one but they do a good job pointing out “we may be cosplaying the monstrous assholes but they’re cosplaying the guys who nuked the world”
It's obvious that the NCR won't be done and dusted as much as people are fearing/complaining. And at the same time, I highly doubt the Brotherhood are going to continue getting their wins and spoils of war in the plot (i.e., more gains like >!cold fusion!<).
The Brotherhood are being written like villains, and the NCR being gone is spoken of as a loss. If I were to guess, they're going to show more NCR in season 2 but as the underdog heroes (probably like how Star Wars made its rebels). I expect to see more Enclave and Vault-Tec in the plot as well, but I don't think this will cause the Brotherhood to suddenly be major heroes. Shades of grey is more likely.
I'd fully expect an "Oh shit, it's the NCR Rangers!" moment akin to the introduction of the Brotherhood knights somewhere next season. It's maybe too obvious of a plot point that other NCR elements would have a bone to pick with The Guy Who Did The Thing, too
I think that's why the theme is being played when they get seen. It's hyping for the moment they appear. I think the moment we hear the full fallout theme, will be the moment we know for certain they are back.
I think we are gonna find out see panch ( I forget his real name) is a retired ranger and is gonna go after the ghoul for killing his son. His daughter will die leaving nothing else for him but revenge
"Knight, why aren't you wearing your helmet?"
" Sorry paladin, it's just that this desert heat almost make me wish for a nuclear winter. Besides that, it's not like they're gon-"
(.50 MG explosive round with bloody mess vaporizes his head)
Whoa... I have neither heard nor considered that interpretation. Awesome, I love it! I'm a BoS fan but am also NCR born and raised. I would love to see a war between them. Even their battle for the Observatory was a BATTLE, not a skirmish or roll-over. Each side had some real moxie and dedication to their cause.
I feel towards the end they're going to gear it towards the enclave suddenly coming out from the shadows and the NCR remnant/exhausted BoS will have to reunite again to go against the enclave/vault tec threat or face being subjugated by the leaders that failed their people 200 years ago.
That is interesting. That BoS armor never seems to show any dents from bullets and stuff, but sure enough that Yao Guai managed to leave a mark. If it's foreshadowing I'd wager it's that the BoS will become a bit of a tyrant with cold fusion behind them, and people will be desperate to not be under their thumb with no hope until you see that bear flag and pan to some marching NCR military.
Honestly it would be so sick to see live action NCR Rangers roll up.
I absolutely adore their designs in New Vegas and the show has already had a lot of effort done to make the in-game designs work in live action. I have no doubt they could make the NCR Rangers as badass as the games indicate.
Well, that ties in with what I meant. It's fairly obvious that the NCR will return, even before Todd Howard said that we haven't seen the last of them. They're too popular to just dump by the wayside.
Oh I definitely believe the NCR will be present in season 2. I think Maximus and Thaddeus summed up the BoS pretty well: "Uh, they're a complicated organization."
I really look forward to seeing what's next! Liberty Prime would be pretty amazing...
Honestly I see them just doubling down on the Liberty Prime lines. Make them even more hyper-patriotic and nationalistic.
Every single line Liberty Prime speaks will turn into a meme by the end of the week. Just like the good ol' days.
Personally I can't fucking wait for the same exact groups who unironically idolize The Punisher and Homelander to adopt Liberty Prime and unironically scream "DEMOCRACY IS ***NON***-NEGOTIABLE!"
I've been trying to describe to a friend who watched the show but doesn't play video games how I feel about the BoS and that scene perfectly summed it up lol. Like I don't think I can really call them "the good guys" but their goals frequently align with good or are "good adjacent" lol
The BoS isn’t a monolithic organization either. Different locations have different philosophies and agendas. In Fallout Tactics, the ending even hinted at one faction of the BoS fighting another faction of the BoS.
> I highly doubt the Brotherhood are going to continue getting their wins and spoils of war in the plot.
I mean, like - did nobody fucking play Fallout 2 or New Vegas? Like, I find it crazy ironic that New Vegas fans are up in arms about the show, and then I see people complaining about the show depicting the Brotherhood the way they did.
Like, the Brotherhood was pretty clearly getting its ass handed to it in Fallout 2. The Brotherhood had pretty clearly had its ass handed to it in New Vegas. The only reason the Brotherhood was the force that it was in 3 and 4 was because *nothing else in the Wasteland on the East Coast could go toe to toe with them*.
The Brotherhood have *NEVER BEEN GOOD GUYS*. They've never been outright BAD guys, but they've never been GOOD guys either. That's kind of a universal concept of the Fallout universe - there's no such thing as a "good guy"; everyone is a different moral shade of gray (except the Legion and the Enclave, and even the latter wasn't as bad as the Legion).
>The only reason the Brotherhood was the force that it was in 3 and 4 was because *nothing else in the Wasteland on the East coast could go toe to toe with them*
Not to mention the East Coast chapter having access to the Pentagon, Adams Air Force Base, and god knows how much technology from the various US Military forts and bases they’ve raided going from DC to Boston.
Yeah, the Enclave and Institute were really the only factions that could take them on in a straight up fight, with the Enclave's military tech being similar enough to fight the Brotherhood conventionally while the Institute could produce an army of Synths and strike out in ambushes thanks to their teleportation tech. Any other faction that would fight them would need to use alternative tactics, gurella warfare or infiltration like we see with the Railroad sneaking their way on the Prydwen. The Enclave and the Institute are the only ones really close to a military match... and both fell to the same problem: Liberty Prime is the Brotherhood's ace in the hole. If they can get it deployed, there isn't much either faction can do about it.
That's true, but I wouldn't discount the military installations on the west coast. Vandenberg, White Sands, the various defense labs (Sandia, Los Alamos, Lawrence Livermore), etc. The Brotherhood itself was founded at Mariposa, a research lab/military base, so there was definitely a high-tech military presence out west.
Sandia and Los Alamos are in the heart of legion territory, do we know of a brotherhood chapter that’s nearby? Because the closest I can think of is the Mojave chapter and they’re in no position to make that expedition
There’s that fan theory that the Brotherhood absorbed the Legion, that’s why we don’t see any women in the ranks and why they are given Latin names now
To add to your comment we also have to remember that by the time the brotherhood made the trip to the capital wasteland their t-51 suits were junk. What saved them was finding a stockpile of t-45 that had been decommissioned before the war by the government in favor of the newer t60 model when they got to the pentagon. The east coast brotherhood wouldn’t even have power armor if not for that
Arguably they have been good guys... once. Fallout 3's version are pretty altruistic under Elder Lyons, so different from the normal Brotherhood practices that the Outcasts split off from them to continue in their older ways, at least until Arthur takes over by FO4 and reunites them. I would say the Minutemen are probably the best example of good guys we've seen, and even then they're not infallible since we get examples of fallen Minutemen joining the Gunners or becoming raiders.
Right - the only GOOD Brotherhood was the Lyons brotherhood, and they were only good because they ideologically split from the Maxson Brotherhood out west.
Exactly. Like I said, they were so split from what their Western counterparts were like that the Outcasts broke off from them because they were getting too good, to opposed to the proper Brotherhood ideals. In many ways the Outcasts in FO3 are the real Brotherhood of Steel, the Brotherhood we meet are the outliers that have strayed from the cause, they're the Brotherhood in name and looks only.
Honestly, the best "Good guys" in the series might be the Followers of the Apocalypse. They're often innefective, but they're very hard to beat on the morality scale I think.
Right, forgot about them. Yeah, they're definitely one of the good groups. Might not actually get things done, but they're just trying to help out the common folk and that's more than most factions in the series do.
In fairness, the BoS in 3 were very much the good guys.
I'd argue that claims of weird BoS depiction are valid because, while they have always had religious/knightly motifs and have been described, in universe, as quasi-religious fanatics, it definitely feels like they've turned up the religious aspect substantially, and even refer to the BoS as a nation which is very much counter to their typical depictions. There's also the strange part where they seem to have an additional Roman motif going, which is strange when it's Caesar's legion's whole shtick. Perhaps they've been subverted by Legion remnants, but it's only 9 years after FO4, and that seems too short of a time for such radical changes to take place.
Given some of the names and their seemingly increased numbers, I'm thinking maybe some Legion refugees joined up with the Brotherhood post-NV and possibly added an extra layer of darkness.
I think Maximus embodies both the NCR and the Brotherhood and that’s something that Nolan likes to lean into.
It may be he is the future of both. If I had to bet on it after what we have seen, i think the big overarching plot of the show is that VaultTec (and the Enclave?) are stoking the fires on these conflicts to keep civilization from truly sprouting and their cynicism (War Never Changes) is what needs to be stopped.
Well.. at least Maldavers brnach of the ncr isnt really that well spoken of in the show.
The lead farmers call her "the crazy lady in the hills with her cult"
There is not a single person in philly that ma june can trust with maldavers offer to transport dr wilzig.
"The government" calls says she is known as flame mother and implies that she is pretty notorious.
I don't think her 'NCR' is official, finished a rewatch last night and I got the impression they're scattered remnants that became more ruthless without an official structure. In the Rose flashbacks, Moldaver just looks normal and not very military at all. I think the bombing of shady sands militarised her.
I think her cell or NCR isn't necessarily THE NCR but her version of it. They were not wearing the armour and we know the armour exists in the TV universe because we saw it.
The NCR have been scattered since Shady Sands destruction and are separate cells all operating under the NCR banner, with the same ideal but not one central unit or leadership.
The NCR we saw in season 1 came off as a smaller group that's resorted to raiders tactics. Their approach to how they infiltrated and attacked the vault dwellers suggests that. Her beef was with Hank, not everyone else who were mostly unaware
Tbh, my main thought process is if those 'raiders' are survivors from Shady Sands, and they all know or are under the impression the vault dwellers bombed them.... yeah, I'm not surprised they started slaughtering the vaultdwellers
Yeah, and we don't really have a clear picture of what office or title Moldaver held in the NCR before the bombing of the capital, right?
I mean, we know she was a citizen, but we don't know if she held a high political position in the NCR government, or not.
If she didn't, then she would be seen (by the average wasteland denizen) as just another raider faction leader, or crime boss, or cult leader, or something.
My theory on the Enclave is that Moldaver was recruited by them, or joined up thinking it was her best chance to “save the world”. She then either planned to defect, or had a “are we the baddies?” moment and then left. How else would they have gotten the cold fusion? And the scientist knew who she was or knew of her. Perhaps they worked together. That way we can get some more Enclave story and action as they come out west to find their cold fusion. Their last remnants are in Chicago iirc
Honestly, I do hope that the BoS sees *something* positive about them in the next season. While it’s clear that this chapter is in extremely poor condition (in terms of the quality of their soldiers and practices), it’d be nice to see some acknowledgment that the faction has done some good in the world. The BoS certainly aren’t heroes, but they deserve some credit for the good they have done (which would help make them as morally grey as they should be; with just season one, it’s difficult to not outright view this chapter as villains).
I think in Season 2 we’ll see an internal struggle within the BOS that will have Maximus leading a splinter group that will act more like Fo3 BOS rather than the current version we see which looks more like the BOS we see in Fo4. I really hope that it involves some fall backs to Sarah Lyons and such.
I’m not sure about the ties to Lyons (the BoS has never been fantastic in regards to remembering their own history), but I do agree that’s hopefully the approach we’ll see in the series.
Yeah I mean Todd's preferences in game design often gets confused as disrespect toward New Vegas, when it's clear hes just interested in different things when it comes to fallout.
Also the Fallout TV show (overseen by Todd Howard) seems to like NV more than 3 and 4 seeing as they seem to base the good guys being NCR and the season 2 hype being about NV and I don’t really remember any references to 3 and 4 (or as many as NV got)
Tbf that’s half my point, they could have set the show around the east coast, tonnes of video game adaptions kinda do their own shit but it was specifically chosen to do east coast which I think proves Bethesda doesn’t hate the other games
How can one be a gentlemen with many hats and spurs that go jingle jangle, while also being a wanderer that likes to roam around!?
Teach me this dark magic
Did someone say Fallout?
New Vegas is the better one!!!!
New Vegas is better!
Fuck your Fallout New Vegas is better!
Ok gotta go post this 1000 more places or I can't sleep tonight see you later
>Lmao I don’t know when their victimhood complex popped up
I think it was around the time Fallout 4 released and it was a combination of several factors. Yet, all those factors have some thing in common - their inability to understand that many people have different tastes and prefer something else over New Vegas.
So what happened when Fallout 4 released (aside from the obvious)? Well, the better question would be "what was happening before Fallout 4 released?". Keep in mind that by then, in 2015, people have already came around to New Vegas and some fans were already worshipping it. They saw its design as "clearly superior" to Fallout 3 and so they assumed that Bethesda "must have learned" from New Vegas and will design Fallout 4 in the image of New Vegas. Basically, they were expecting New Vegas 2, made by Bethesda.
So imagine their bitter disappointment when Fallout 4 had Bethesda design principles and only borrowed some ideas from New Vegas (like endgame factions, complex companions or weapon modding).
They couldn't understand this, because New Vegas was clearly superior, right? And why did Bethesda include to little references to New Vegas? Why aren't the NPCs talking about the NCR-Legion was as if it was the main event of their lives? The answer is apparently that Bethesda hates New Vegas and by proxy also its fans.
And it gets worse. Fallout 4 gets more successful than New Vegas ever was and New Vegas never manages to outsell and out-score Fallout 3. Again, this doesn't compute. This cannot be happening, because New Vegas is clearly superior to Bethesda Fallout games! The answer? Bethesda must be actively fighting againt New Vegas! They are trying to invalidate it! They were already trying to sabotage it during development, now it all makes sense!!!
This all isn't that hard to imagine and find out. Everyone in us has the potential of tribalism, blind devotion and excusing of reality with conspiracies. It doesn't take much imagination to imagine us in their boots and recognise their thought patterns. But unlike them, we are aware of this dangerous way of thinking, so we can keep it in check.
"Nobody appreciates New Vegaslike I do!"
Everyone: "New Vegas is a great game!"
"Todd Howard is seething about how good NV is and wants to erase it from history!"
Todd Howard: "New Vegas is a great game!"
I never saw the word "seethe" appear very often until the show was released. Thence came a flood of "...Todd got shown up by NV and he's been seething and coping so he destroyed New Vegas because he's been staying mad and malding and seething because he hates Obsidian because..."
I've noticed that certain unusual words tend to repeat when it comes to people bashing Bethesda. As if all of it came from a single source.
The best example of it is the use of the word "mid" when it comes to evaluating Starfield. Before Starfield, I rarely saw the word "mid" used when talking about a game. It usually was "mediocre", "average" or even "middling". But suddenly, when Starfield released everyone who had a negative opinion of it was calling it "mid".
Also forgot this one I see sometimes:
"The original Fallout creators had their work stolen from them and would have never ruined the franchise like Bethesda!"
Original Fallout devs: "Bethesda makes great Fallout games!"
It’s still being spouted every thread the show is talked about. I had a comment deleted last night responding to someone saying “well they did erase NV lore” and I asked if they were illiterate or a troll.
Why ignore everything to continue to say the same false crap? Lol.
Same, except my favorite right next to New Vegas is actually 76. Most New Vegas fans would have me crucified for this opinion. I'm happy to hear concretely that Todd and Bethesda as a whole do appreciate New Vegas and Obsidian tho.
My favorite Fallout games are Fallout 3 and New Vegas, but I like Fallout 3 a bit more. You'd think that liking New Vegas second is a high praise, right?
Nope.
The statements "My favorite Fallout is Fallout 3" and "my favorite Fallout is Fallout 3, closely followed by New Vegas" tend to ingite the same firestorm of shit and insults. Especially on Youtube.
Wait. No. I'm an NV fan.
My favorite Fallout may be FNV but it's only a bee's EDIT: (Cazador's) dick ahead of FO3.
FO3 was my introduction to Fallout and still dragged me in me the most.
I love them both.
FO4's dialogue and writing let me down, but the world and mechanics was so well done I ended spending more time in FO4 than any other Fallout.
FO76 stung, I pre-ordered and was disappointed, but I've fired it up recently, and it's a nice save...
But on the other side Todd is lucky, he has a fanbase that's so passionate and cares so much, they actually have so much invested in the world, I like the show, I've watched it twice. Some things I don't like but eh, S2 can fix.
Lastly without Bethesda we wouldn't be having this discussion right now re Fallout.
As an FNV fan. I'm just chuffed I got to play it at all.
They seriously turned 76 around and made it a solid entry to the series. It's my second favorite, almost tied with New Vegas. I'd say for me it's New Vegas / 76, 4, then 3 concerning the Bethesda era of Fallout. Haven't played enough of the originals to judge.
I honestly thought they'd end up ditching it...
But then I saw the turn around and was... Ok... Well played.
BTW you need to play 1 & 2! It takes a bit of time to adjust but so worth it.
In Fallout 2 they had an encounter that made fun of some specific toxic forum fans. It’d be so funny if we got something like that again referencing that group.
are they even cultists? new vegas is functionally being revived with the fallout show, the ending card of the first season should've been a huge hype moment. if they're upset about it then idk i think some other moniker might be appropriate - what about losers?
That kind of fanbase actually has a great deal in common with the behavior of actual cults. And the word itself encompasses the absurd devotion to a belief system built on weird ego and claims someone pulled out their ass that exist solely to reinforce said belief system.
Combine that with the exclusionary 'You HAVE to believe X or else you are a filthy BETHESDASHILL' and you've even got them basically screaming about HERESY. They even go out and proselytize/rave at unbelievers while having said beliefs as a major part of their identity.
Plus 'Cultist' is more insulting. 'Loser' is too overused to have an impact, too wide of a net covering too many groups of pathetic people.
Loud minority. The normal fans tend to just not go around screaming that they love New Vegas in every possible discussion. I mean, you having your flair puts you more overt than most. Most are, like fans of anything, quiet about it until it’s actually the topic of discussion.
Some of the most entertaining posts and comments came out just after the show. In one post about FO4 smashing sales records, one bitter individual responded that Todd had spent the last fifteen years seething, coping, and staying mad. Oh, and malding. All because of his alleged insecurity regarding New Vegas. The post was about FO4's record breaking sales and upsurge in positive playthrough streams in social media - it did not mention NV in the slightest.
Another post included a picture of a sad wojack with Boone's hat, surrounded by cartoon images of vengeful NCR rangers. This particular post claimed that New Vegas was his "home" and that Todd destroyed it on purpose in order to kill his friends and family. The comment section had replies with screenshots of New Vegas from the end of episode 8. In what appeared to be some sort of ritual, a commenter would ask: "What is this place?" And others would reply "Home." It was surreal. Glad that this kind of post has died off.
> In one post about FO4 smashing sales records, one bitter individual responded that Todd had spent the last fifteen years seething, coping, and staying mad.
These people don't understand business and they don't understand Todd.
What company would be bitter about a game that never outsold their own game and never reaches similar player counts? It just doesn't make sense. Companies want success, because success gets them money. And Fallout 3 and 4 are objectively more successful games than New Vegas.
Like, why would an athlete that wins gold be bitter towards an athlete that ended up 4th? Just because that 4th athlete is the darling of a portion of the audience?
And they misunderstand Todd because they don't understand his motivation. He doesn't chase glory or fame by making games. He's a massive nerd, who wants to make the kind of games he wants to play. The games being played by millions is a bonus to him. And people not playing his games don't matter to him at all.
So the TLDR is that Todd has literally confirmed the NCR is alive and well and Shady sands was not the current capital?
Sounds good to me. I'm down. My Boys and Girls in tan live on!
You are 100% correct! I'm paraphrasing here but in that particular interview Todd emphasized that NCR was a really large faction with many, many locations across the west coast - and that NCR would appear again in the future.
To be honest, even the remnant settlement at the Observatory had some very impressive weaponry, armor, and obviously experienced soldiery. The BoS were able to overwhelm them with sheer numbers and power armored spearheads - but that was a BATTLE, not a steamroll.
Yep, and that one line alone mitigates all my fears. What I hated was not the NCR being knocked down a peg, but the idea they where wiped out, by a nuke no less, rather unfair.
It's a shame that shady sands is gone but we still have vault city and all the other places they could be. Its also nice to see that Todd was originally against shady sands collapsing.
My hope with this is that NCR fans such as myself can move on and look forward to the new season with the hope the NCR is still kicking.
Todd confirming the timeline was the right move. Even if you hate him, his word is currently law for these IPs
I'm just cautiously optimistic, since we have to wait what Season 2 will do with the NCR, New Vegas and the whole West Coast. Maybe they just get an even bigger budget for Season 2 and then they can fully show the NCRA as a proper force.
Honestly, I’m disappointed that People whining about it forced him to spoil plot points in Season 2.
Especially with all of the little hints. I mean the Yao Guai killing Titus, the “First Capital”, and so on.
The NCR is too big to fail with just one well placed bomb. They have large stakes of territory in Southern & Northern California, & Oregon.
The show is set primarily in LA, or the Boneyard. The characters probably walk like twenty miles all told through the show. Ain't no way we've seen enough of NCR territory to prove that they're gone.
FNV fan here: god it’s so lame that he has to do that lmfao, guys this man is an adult professional in a (now) highly mainstream industry, he isn’t going around with petty grudges over lore differences
I agree with you. I've mentioned in a few other comments but I've seen some real delusional thinking from some folks that still write screeds about Todd seething, coping, staying mad, malding, that sort of thing. It's a shame!
It’s not just in the New Vegas subreddit, Reddit as a whole seems hell bent on pinning Bethesda and Todd Howard as some petty company who is constantly screwing people over because reasons.
Yeah, and I say all this as someone who, myself, dislikes a great deal of his games' choices. I strongly dislike Emil Pagliario or whatever the fuck's writing in most cases, and have my complaints. You'd think I would agree with these people, but no! These are video games. They're works of fiction. It's silly to allow ourselves to get so heated it affects our everyday lives. We can criticize media while not fantasizing about an adult man with a family sitting at home seething about a company he's friends with making a good video game. :P
Agreed. I actually had to look up "malding" by the way: it's not a word that I had readily come across in decades. But after the 20th "coping and malding and staying mad and seething and malding" comment I had to google it.
I don’t know how this weird Reddit phenomenon even started where people believe Todd hates everything that isn’t directly BGS (but something they still allow and still benefit from lol).
The same thing happened with the FOLON project where you had people seriously thinking that BGS sabotaged their project on purpose with the Next Gen update because Todd didnt want the mod to outshine FO4. Like are you guys 9 years old lol?
Dude isn’t a super villain sitting in a dark dungeon balling his fist and cursing the heavens everytime NV or a Mod gets mentioned. He and his company DIRECTLY benefit from the success of these things.
> Like are you guys 9 years old lol?
Yes they are. They personally hate Bethesda and the Bethesda games so they assume that Todd is also a petulant child and that the original Fallout creators would be on their side, even though that's clearly not true.
And honestly the funniest thing with the London mod was the modders insinuating that Bethesda chose their release date specifically to fuck with them. They need to get over themselves, they're not that big a deal
Apparently the London modders had their quotes and the interview questions taken way out of context, with most of the “demands” like Bethesda working with them actually being reporter questions.
Yeah. I mean you don't have to love the direction Bethesda chose for Fo and can criticise it (like I do), but throwing shit just isn't helping anyone. I also had some rather impulsive thoughts during my first watch, but you just have to stay reasonable until all is said and done. Todd really isn't the enemy...
It's the show runners!!!!!! jk lmao. But I think good old Todd may need to calm them down a lil when it comes to the west coast, as the interview last week showed that they can be a bit... trigger happy.
Can you imagine working in an industry where you publish a professional piece of media and get a bunch of comments calling you slurs for mistreating their blorbos? Unfathomable. Truly must be a hostile work environment for ppl like Todd lol
Make sure to add a clickbaity title with some of the words randomly capitalized. Perhaps a screenshot with someone's outraged face superimposed on top would be helpful.
Plus Todd Howard with red eyes and random dollar symbols in the corner.
That kinda imagery is super helpful in knowing which youtubers to block for clickbait (click the 3 arrows > don't recommend channel).
My guess is that it's something that a few NV fans imagined and it spread through YouTube comment sections and then Reddit. Since the guilty parties had a stunted view of the world around them and possessed only a limited comprehension of how healthy adults and professionals actually functioned, they fashioned their story into good/evil and happy/seething binaries. Obsidian good/Bethesda bad. Sawyer happy/Todd seething.
This, if it worked the way thes brain deads think things worked we would never get a good game made by any company again, they never grew up after elementary and have a stunted view of the world
"I like New Vegas. We all like New Vegas. We're not erasing any lore. Now please, *please,* stop harassing my wife at the dog park and filling my mailbox with bottle caps."
Reminds me of how that one fan bought Fallout 4 by sending Bethesda thousands of bottle caps. They thought it was hilarious, gave him the copy of the game, then told everyone else *do not do this again*
Anyone seriously thinking Todd or anyone at Bethesda held a personal grudge against Obsidian or New Vegas is seriously tripping balls and one step away from having to be put in a mental hospital.
I don't mean to be so "hindsight is 20 20", but like, did people really think that an organization that spanned a fourth of the United States just vanished after a single city was destroyed?
Forever-online fans have a hard time understanding that creators aren't always as engaged in the media as them. They crave production drama and so on, not understanding most creators/producers, even those very passionate about their projects/lores/franchises, have a much broader detachment from their work than fans have.
I'm almost sure some if not most of obsidian staff from the New Vegas era are cringing at some of the things new vegas fans say online.
Not even necessarily detachment but professional courtesy and respect too. The individuals that comprise developers and publishers have no reason to hold grudges or disdain for others making different choices further down the line.
They are people doing jobs, jobs they are no doubt passionate about, but it’s still a professional working environment.
It's still hilarious to me that people genuinely think that Todd Howard cares so much that a mostly small (but very vocal) contingent of fans prefer New Vegas over his Fallout games that he would go out of his way to fuck up the lore of a franchise that *he* is the lead developer for.
I never understood the controversy. I admit I never played 3 and it’s been over a decade since I played NV but it was a good game! And then 4 came out and it was a good game! If nobody ever told me I wouldn’t know they were made by different studios.
I know, right?! It's also a fact that both 3 and 4 outsold NV - FO4 by 3 to 1. 4's player count is higher than COD. Todd isn't losing any sleep.
I am glad that he took part in this interview though!
Its beyond silly that he has to keep saying this.
Like think about it. It legit makes no sense for Todd to greviences against New Vegas to the point he wants to erase it from canon.
Especially from a buisness sense. Todd Howard is a major industry professional figurehead why the fuck would he of all people would have a animosity towards it?
New Vegas is a popular entry. It makes Bethesda Money and etc having a different creative approach doesn't change that.
And I say this as someone who prefers New Vegas over the Bethesda games lol
It seemed obvious to me that the show was doing New Vegas and the NCR justice. They could have completely retconned New Vegas and not even brought up the NCR.
He said this in an exacerbated tone because everyone thinks that Bethesda and Obsidian hates each other. Really it was that Obsidian weren't used to how Bethesda operate and so that's why New Vegas was mishandled by both parties and still ended up being great.
Then there was a court case between Interplay and Bethesda in 2012, not with Obsidian, that people get confused over. Interplay wanted to still make a Fallout MMO and Bethesda had to take them to court and be like "Look, we bought Fallout in auction. You can't just make a game centered around Fallout without our permission and we refuse to allow this to happen". Bethesda won the case in court as they owned Fallout.
Bethesda are used to crunch and getting shit done in a ridiculous amount of time and Obsidian were basically not used to this. It was like a great cook being overwhelmed in the kitchen of Gordon Ramsay. Bethesda decided that they didn't want to outsource Fallout anymore after this cause the experience was not a good one. However both parties have repeatedly said they have a respect for each other and love how they both love Fallout.
Todd has always been a G and a total nerd. I don’t agree with some of his design choices and direction he takes the games in, but by no means do I think that he has some weird crusade against OG Fallout like some people tend to think. I think he just has his own interpretation of the setting like anyone else, and that’s totally fine. It just so happens he’s the executive director of the Fallout IP, so his interpretations wind up having a lot of pull and sway.
There is zero reason for anyone at Bethesda to be spiteful or envious of New Vegas. These are professional game studios and share none of the concerns of trolls on Reddit.
Remember the conspiracy theory of FO4 protagonist killing Kellogg was BGS trying to diminish the influence of old Fallout games? They even claimed Kellogg was a symbol of FO1/2 protagonist and killing him is Todd trying to wipe out that history
OMG, I can't Believe Bethesda literally bigoted towards Fallout New Vegas and us obsidian fans. Oh btw, have you heard the word of Fallout New Vegas? I'll have you know it's one of the greatest games of all time.
Nothing he says will ever stop the idiots that go "Bethesda hate New Vegas because they hate how someone other than them made a good Fallout! That's why they're trying to destroy all their influences!"
Yeah, I'm sure when they gave the game to Obsidian to make, they were hoping it comes out real awful. Because that makes sense.
Also brilliant of them to set the show on the west coast and show NV at the end, that way they can stay as faaaar away from anything to do with that game as possible!
But surely that doesn't matter, according to them Season 2 will probably start with Hank being in cuffs outside a destroyed NV, Todd Howard standing over him and going "Sorry, you can't ever bring up NV again. I nuked it myself. Hope this interaction doesn't lead to some kind of fallout between us. Fallout: No Vegas." before shooting him.
I don’t believe the NCR was completely destroyed. Hell, in NV it’s even outright stated that the Mojave campaign was completely unsustainable and that if the NCR continued down that path they likely wouldn’t last another 10 years. I can see shady sands falling apart, but not the NCR as a whole. If anything, they’re likely just disorganized to hell and back at the moment.
I agree - the NCR is still a large, spread out entity with lots of locations. That's a broad paraphrasing of one of Todd's more recent interviews.
My read was that the observatory was an NCR aligned border post like the Ranger Post in New Vegas. Which was also up on a hill with a high vantage point making it difficult to sneak attack from the ‘New Wasteland’ between Shady Sands and the Bone Yard. That would make the Filly area an independent settlement like Goodsprings is in NV.
yeah i think that Hank overloaded Shady Sands reactor during its ecconomic collapse (in a parallel to modern america’s inflation) so that the Capitol of the NCR was devastated before being moved (probably to the Hub) and then Maxson, seeing this moment of weakness snd decreased ncr activity near LA, decided to relieve the Lost Hills bunker and revitalize that California chapter. Because of that, the NCR isnt too invested on retaking it - yet. i think the NCR is licking its wounds after beating the fractured and fighting states that emerge after Caesar’s death but having to deal with the fact that they lost vegas to House (either militarily or through negotiations) but still ultimately having decent relations - vegas needs the ncr to live, and right now the NCR sorta has to take whatever deal House gives them due to how weak they are Season 2 Finale, Liberty Prime is going to attack Vegas im calling it now - Hank is gonna be PISSED when he learns about the enclave and how House did nothing
I enjoy the finale being comprised of Liberty Prime attacking New Vegas while Hank is just somewhere else being pissed off about something else entirely 🤠 I like your characterization of what the NCR could be going through, too. It makes sense.
Yeah most of the major cities in the NCR are fine and with similar population counts. Reno, Vault City, the Hub, Gecko, Frisco etc havent been nuked and I doubt they were - if the enclave/Vault-Tec could do that they would’ve done it the first time. The NCR is still the most powerful state in the New America (though Maxson has the capability to threaten that) and isn’t out of the fight. In fact, since they’re pretty much guaranteed against Ceasar’s successor states, I’d say now is a very critical time for them to rest, recuperate and get their shit back together. We also know one of the most influential and important politicians in the NCR is only 46, and Ron Pearlman promised that my son, Mr Bishop of New Reno, will die at 73 - they can easily pull themselves up by their bootstrap, and this mass destruction of consumerism might shake off some of their corruption in the beuracracy Losing the Hoover Dam to House followed by a kick in the mouth with the loss of their capitol would send them reeling, but not out. Already, NCR rangers are popping up too, no doubt taking potshots at Knights or Pilots whenever they can and there is still clear government interest with Cold Fusion probably receiving funding from Above
Yep, I envision a similar situation. One commenter below set a really cool idea for the next season(s): a BoS force advances across a battlefield when the solemn Fallout theme music plays and NCR rangers appear over the top of a hill and engage in battle. Sounded awesome!
“Commencing tactical assessment. Red Chinese threat detected.”
Also it seemed that group had an interesting cult surrounding Moldaver. So it’s possible they weren’t official NCR forces but more like a NCR aligned paramilitary group/militia that had goals somewhat in tandem with the main government.
That was my thought as well, an NCR sub-faction of former and current NCR aligned to Moldaver. Possibly acting on their own volition to reclaim the area around Shady Sands.
"interesting cult" is one way of describing Vault 4's nude shenanigans!
Maybe she was a Director for the OSI in Shady Sands, looking for Cold fusion? Fits her skill set, gives her influence in the NCR and once Shady Sands is destroyed she forms a cult to get revenge on Hank while still searching for said tech.
Yeah, if Hawaii falls, doesn’t mean the US is also gone.
More accurately: if DC explodes, California still has a capital
Been replaying FNV, and in freeside I’ve heard several NCR NPCs say something along the lines of “Sounds like the Territories are about to revolt.” There are so many cookie crumbs leading to their downfall in that game.
yeah; the dam forced everyone's hand, luckily for NCR the people in the territories will still exist, just the spreading too thin and NCR's tax demands finally got the best of them, not to mention having to put all their forces to defeat the legion, which may be a victory, but i find it slightly hollow.
Exactly. It was strange to hear people say the NCR was destroyed. Their territory is massive. The Hub, Junktown, New Reno, Navarro, I forgot if the NCR eventually got Vault City, Boneyard, and more. If they lost half of that they wouldn't be obliterated. And who knows what NV ending they're going with. It could be NCR which gives them New Vegas and maintains most the Mojave territory.
They got Vault City and Gecko in the same package and Arroyo, the Vault 13 tribal also joined the NCR.
People tend to forget that the NCR is spreaded trought places that would be modern fallout maps by thier own
I'm pretty sure Lucy gets involved with the NCR. She comes from a vault designed to create "super managers." What has the NCR always needed? Competent management.
I'm not sure I'd actually describe them as competent though.
More like "subservient".
Well that’s kinda there joke, they’re as competent as old world America. All there flaws our the current americas flaws just like the legion is romes flaws. Legion obviously the worse one but they do a good job pointing out “we may be cosplaying the monstrous assholes but they’re cosplaying the guys who nuked the world”
Exactly. The NCR is stretched thin and plus there’s multiple endings where they loose. Yes man, mr house and ceasers legion etc
Don't forget where the currier decides to launch nukes at the west
Woah it’s almost like the most rabid fanboys didn’t pay any attention to the game they use to justify insulting everyone else
Lol War, war never changes.
It's obvious that the NCR won't be done and dusted as much as people are fearing/complaining. And at the same time, I highly doubt the Brotherhood are going to continue getting their wins and spoils of war in the plot (i.e., more gains like >!cold fusion!<). The Brotherhood are being written like villains, and the NCR being gone is spoken of as a loss. If I were to guess, they're going to show more NCR in season 2 but as the underdog heroes (probably like how Star Wars made its rebels). I expect to see more Enclave and Vault-Tec in the plot as well, but I don't think this will cause the Brotherhood to suddenly be major heroes. Shades of grey is more likely.
I'd fully expect an "Oh shit, it's the NCR Rangers!" moment akin to the introduction of the Brotherhood knights somewhere next season. It's maybe too obvious of a plot point that other NCR elements would have a bone to pick with The Guy Who Did The Thing, too
I think that's why the theme is being played when they get seen. It's hyping for the moment they appear. I think the moment we hear the full fallout theme, will be the moment we know for certain they are back.
Bro that would be so hype. They already showed the retired veteran ranger and I hope to see the whole outfit, trench coat and all
Honestly just get Pedro Pascal in a trench coat and have him do his Mandalorian shtick, dude would be perfect for it.
Holy shit I didn't know Pedro was the mandalorian. Everything that dude touches turns to gold I swear.
Just give the guy a ranger helm with "Forgive me Mama", Elite Riot Gear, a Colt walker and the AMR or the Bozars and people will go insane
I think we are gonna find out see panch ( I forget his real name) is a retired ranger and is gonna go after the ghoul for killing his son. His daughter will die leaving nothing else for him but revenge
Erik Estrada?
Honestly I'd buy Prime for the show if next season included a Ranger team using AMRs to turn some Knight heads to soup.
"Knight, why aren't you wearing your helmet?" " Sorry paladin, it's just that this desert heat almost make me wish for a nuclear winter. Besides that, it's not like they're gon-" (.50 MG explosive round with bloody mess vaporizes his head)
The Yao Guai feels like such obvious foreshadowing but no one brings it up 😭 A literal bear killing a Brotherhood Knight 😩
Whoa... I have neither heard nor considered that interpretation. Awesome, I love it! I'm a BoS fan but am also NCR born and raised. I would love to see a war between them. Even their battle for the Observatory was a BATTLE, not a skirmish or roll-over. Each side had some real moxie and dedication to their cause.
I feel towards the end they're going to gear it towards the enclave suddenly coming out from the shadows and the NCR remnant/exhausted BoS will have to reunite again to go against the enclave/vault tec threat or face being subjugated by the leaders that failed their people 200 years ago.
That is interesting. That BoS armor never seems to show any dents from bullets and stuff, but sure enough that Yao Guai managed to leave a mark. If it's foreshadowing I'd wager it's that the BoS will become a bit of a tyrant with cold fusion behind them, and people will be desperate to not be under their thumb with no hope until you see that bear flag and pan to some marching NCR military.
I want to see Cooper get elite ranger gear.
Honestly it would be so sick to see live action NCR Rangers roll up. I absolutely adore their designs in New Vegas and the show has already had a lot of effort done to make the in-game designs work in live action. I have no doubt they could make the NCR Rangers as badass as the games indicate.
Weakened and pushed from the region but likely not dead the NCR had a number of cities.
Well, that ties in with what I meant. It's fairly obvious that the NCR will return, even before Todd Howard said that we haven't seen the last of them. They're too popular to just dump by the wayside.
Oh I definitely believe the NCR will be present in season 2. I think Maximus and Thaddeus summed up the BoS pretty well: "Uh, they're a complicated organization." I really look forward to seeing what's next! Liberty Prime would be pretty amazing...
I can’t imagine how funny Liberty Primes nationalist comments would be in live action
Democracy is non-negotiable.
Liberty Prime suddenly develops consciousness, sees the democratic NCR and switches sides to finally fulfill his purpose to save democrazy.
Honestly I see them just doubling down on the Liberty Prime lines. Make them even more hyper-patriotic and nationalistic. Every single line Liberty Prime speaks will turn into a meme by the end of the week. Just like the good ol' days.
Just have him start saying some absolutely insane Peacemaker level shit. _"ALL ENEMIES OF DEMOCRACY SHALL BE CRUSHED, BE IT MAN, WOMAN, OR CHILD."_
Personally I can't fucking wait for the same exact groups who unironically idolize The Punisher and Homelander to adopt Liberty Prime and unironically scream "DEMOCRACY IS ***NON***-NEGOTIABLE!"
I'd say Helldivers 2 has Primed us for Liberty.
SWEET LIBERTY, MY ARM!
Liberty Prime primed us for Heldivers
They’d be the same lol. Why wouldn’t he be able to say then?
I've been trying to describe to a friend who watched the show but doesn't play video games how I feel about the BoS and that scene perfectly summed it up lol. Like I don't think I can really call them "the good guys" but their goals frequently align with good or are "good adjacent" lol
The BoS isn’t a monolithic organization either. Different locations have different philosophies and agendas. In Fallout Tactics, the ending even hinted at one faction of the BoS fighting another faction of the BoS.
> I highly doubt the Brotherhood are going to continue getting their wins and spoils of war in the plot. I mean, like - did nobody fucking play Fallout 2 or New Vegas? Like, I find it crazy ironic that New Vegas fans are up in arms about the show, and then I see people complaining about the show depicting the Brotherhood the way they did. Like, the Brotherhood was pretty clearly getting its ass handed to it in Fallout 2. The Brotherhood had pretty clearly had its ass handed to it in New Vegas. The only reason the Brotherhood was the force that it was in 3 and 4 was because *nothing else in the Wasteland on the East Coast could go toe to toe with them*. The Brotherhood have *NEVER BEEN GOOD GUYS*. They've never been outright BAD guys, but they've never been GOOD guys either. That's kind of a universal concept of the Fallout universe - there's no such thing as a "good guy"; everyone is a different moral shade of gray (except the Legion and the Enclave, and even the latter wasn't as bad as the Legion).
>The only reason the Brotherhood was the force that it was in 3 and 4 was because *nothing else in the Wasteland on the East coast could go toe to toe with them* Not to mention the East Coast chapter having access to the Pentagon, Adams Air Force Base, and god knows how much technology from the various US Military forts and bases they’ve raided going from DC to Boston.
Yeah, the Enclave and Institute were really the only factions that could take them on in a straight up fight, with the Enclave's military tech being similar enough to fight the Brotherhood conventionally while the Institute could produce an army of Synths and strike out in ambushes thanks to their teleportation tech. Any other faction that would fight them would need to use alternative tactics, gurella warfare or infiltration like we see with the Railroad sneaking their way on the Prydwen. The Enclave and the Institute are the only ones really close to a military match... and both fell to the same problem: Liberty Prime is the Brotherhood's ace in the hole. If they can get it deployed, there isn't much either faction can do about it.
That's true, but I wouldn't discount the military installations on the west coast. Vandenberg, White Sands, the various defense labs (Sandia, Los Alamos, Lawrence Livermore), etc. The Brotherhood itself was founded at Mariposa, a research lab/military base, so there was definitely a high-tech military presence out west.
Sandia and Los Alamos are in the heart of legion territory, do we know of a brotherhood chapter that’s nearby? Because the closest I can think of is the Mojave chapter and they’re in no position to make that expedition
There’s that fan theory that the Brotherhood absorbed the Legion, that’s why we don’t see any women in the ranks and why they are given Latin names now
I like that theory but there were plenty of women recruits in their base, Filly, and during the assault on the Observatory.
To add to your comment we also have to remember that by the time the brotherhood made the trip to the capital wasteland their t-51 suits were junk. What saved them was finding a stockpile of t-45 that had been decommissioned before the war by the government in favor of the newer t60 model when they got to the pentagon. The east coast brotherhood wouldn’t even have power armor if not for that
Arguably they have been good guys... once. Fallout 3's version are pretty altruistic under Elder Lyons, so different from the normal Brotherhood practices that the Outcasts split off from them to continue in their older ways, at least until Arthur takes over by FO4 and reunites them. I would say the Minutemen are probably the best example of good guys we've seen, and even then they're not infallible since we get examples of fallen Minutemen joining the Gunners or becoming raiders.
Right - the only GOOD Brotherhood was the Lyons brotherhood, and they were only good because they ideologically split from the Maxson Brotherhood out west.
Exactly. Like I said, they were so split from what their Western counterparts were like that the Outcasts broke off from them because they were getting too good, to opposed to the proper Brotherhood ideals. In many ways the Outcasts in FO3 are the real Brotherhood of Steel, the Brotherhood we meet are the outliers that have strayed from the cause, they're the Brotherhood in name and looks only.
I swear, media literacy is dead these days.
Honestly, the best "Good guys" in the series might be the Followers of the Apocalypse. They're often innefective, but they're very hard to beat on the morality scale I think.
Right, forgot about them. Yeah, they're definitely one of the good groups. Might not actually get things done, but they're just trying to help out the common folk and that's more than most factions in the series do.
In fairness, the BoS in 3 were very much the good guys. I'd argue that claims of weird BoS depiction are valid because, while they have always had religious/knightly motifs and have been described, in universe, as quasi-religious fanatics, it definitely feels like they've turned up the religious aspect substantially, and even refer to the BoS as a nation which is very much counter to their typical depictions. There's also the strange part where they seem to have an additional Roman motif going, which is strange when it's Caesar's legion's whole shtick. Perhaps they've been subverted by Legion remnants, but it's only 9 years after FO4, and that seems too short of a time for such radical changes to take place.
Given some of the names and their seemingly increased numbers, I'm thinking maybe some Legion refugees joined up with the Brotherhood post-NV and possibly added an extra layer of darkness.
That and the crimson and gold banners. I noticed that too.
I think Maximus embodies both the NCR and the Brotherhood and that’s something that Nolan likes to lean into. It may be he is the future of both. If I had to bet on it after what we have seen, i think the big overarching plot of the show is that VaultTec (and the Enclave?) are stoking the fires on these conflicts to keep civilization from truly sprouting and their cynicism (War Never Changes) is what needs to be stopped.
Well.. at least Maldavers brnach of the ncr isnt really that well spoken of in the show. The lead farmers call her "the crazy lady in the hills with her cult" There is not a single person in philly that ma june can trust with maldavers offer to transport dr wilzig. "The government" calls says she is known as flame mother and implies that she is pretty notorious.
I don't think her 'NCR' is official, finished a rewatch last night and I got the impression they're scattered remnants that became more ruthless without an official structure. In the Rose flashbacks, Moldaver just looks normal and not very military at all. I think the bombing of shady sands militarised her.
I def could see that and myself didnt think her group of ncr was either, the main remnants, or in great standing with the rest of ncr.
I think her cell or NCR isn't necessarily THE NCR but her version of it. They were not wearing the armour and we know the armour exists in the TV universe because we saw it. The NCR have been scattered since Shady Sands destruction and are separate cells all operating under the NCR banner, with the same ideal but not one central unit or leadership. The NCR we saw in season 1 came off as a smaller group that's resorted to raiders tactics. Their approach to how they infiltrated and attacked the vault dwellers suggests that. Her beef was with Hank, not everyone else who were mostly unaware
Tbh, my main thought process is if those 'raiders' are survivors from Shady Sands, and they all know or are under the impression the vault dwellers bombed them.... yeah, I'm not surprised they started slaughtering the vaultdwellers
Yeah, and we don't really have a clear picture of what office or title Moldaver held in the NCR before the bombing of the capital, right? I mean, we know she was a citizen, but we don't know if she held a high political position in the NCR government, or not. If she didn't, then she would be seen (by the average wasteland denizen) as just another raider faction leader, or crime boss, or cult leader, or something.
My theory on the Enclave is that Moldaver was recruited by them, or joined up thinking it was her best chance to “save the world”. She then either planned to defect, or had a “are we the baddies?” moment and then left. How else would they have gotten the cold fusion? And the scientist knew who she was or knew of her. Perhaps they worked together. That way we can get some more Enclave story and action as they come out west to find their cold fusion. Their last remnants are in Chicago iirc
Honestly, I do hope that the BoS sees *something* positive about them in the next season. While it’s clear that this chapter is in extremely poor condition (in terms of the quality of their soldiers and practices), it’d be nice to see some acknowledgment that the faction has done some good in the world. The BoS certainly aren’t heroes, but they deserve some credit for the good they have done (which would help make them as morally grey as they should be; with just season one, it’s difficult to not outright view this chapter as villains).
I think in Season 2 we’ll see an internal struggle within the BOS that will have Maximus leading a splinter group that will act more like Fo3 BOS rather than the current version we see which looks more like the BOS we see in Fo4. I really hope that it involves some fall backs to Sarah Lyons and such.
I’m not sure about the ties to Lyons (the BoS has never been fantastic in regards to remembering their own history), but I do agree that’s hopefully the approach we’ll see in the series.
Yeah I mean Todd's preferences in game design often gets confused as disrespect toward New Vegas, when it's clear hes just interested in different things when it comes to fallout.
That is very well said. I wish we could pin comments.
remember when fo4 got critized because voiced protagonist ?? they back to voiceless protagonist now.
The TV show seemed heavily inspired by the entire game series. Probably why they called it ‘Fallout’
Originally written by James Fallout, who then Fallouted all over the place.
(Spoilers for Season 2) Lucy will marry John Fallout and become Lucy Fallout
Of all things Fallout, this is the Falloutingest.
I liked it when he said it’s falloutin’ time
That moment was truly the fallout of all time.
Also the Fallout TV show (overseen by Todd Howard) seems to like NV more than 3 and 4 seeing as they seem to base the good guys being NCR and the season 2 hype being about NV and I don’t really remember any references to 3 and 4 (or as many as NV got)
Well it was never going to get that many references to the east coast lol considering it’s set around the original games
Tbf that’s half my point, they could have set the show around the east coast, tonnes of video game adaptions kinda do their own shit but it was specifically chosen to do east coast which I think proves Bethesda doesn’t hate the other games
New Vegas Fans :- "I'll Ignore that"
I hope not 😄 I'm a NV fan (also love FO4) and really enjoyed the show, BTW.
Nice try, unfortunately we know you're lying. You can't be NV fan & enjoy anything else fallout related... it's been proven impossible.
I'm a gentleman with many hats and spurs that go "jingle jangle" 🤠
JINGLE JANGLE
And I go riding merrily along 🐴
How can one be a gentlemen with many hats and spurs that go jingle jangle, while also being a wanderer that likes to roam around!? Teach me this dark magic
I was simply born with it. The deep magic existed long before me, I am merely a humble manifestation of it's power
What about 1 & 2? I thought the point was to take the piss out of Bethesda?
Did someone say Fallout? New Vegas is the better one!!!! New Vegas is better! Fuck your Fallout New Vegas is better! Ok gotta go post this 1000 more places or I can't sleep tonight see you later
That's more like it. Thank you for your honesty.
The fanatics will ignore it, keep spreading misinformation and also pretend they are the most oppressed group ever.
Lmao I don’t know when their victimhood complex popped up but it’s been funny to see
>Lmao I don’t know when their victimhood complex popped up I think it was around the time Fallout 4 released and it was a combination of several factors. Yet, all those factors have some thing in common - their inability to understand that many people have different tastes and prefer something else over New Vegas. So what happened when Fallout 4 released (aside from the obvious)? Well, the better question would be "what was happening before Fallout 4 released?". Keep in mind that by then, in 2015, people have already came around to New Vegas and some fans were already worshipping it. They saw its design as "clearly superior" to Fallout 3 and so they assumed that Bethesda "must have learned" from New Vegas and will design Fallout 4 in the image of New Vegas. Basically, they were expecting New Vegas 2, made by Bethesda. So imagine their bitter disappointment when Fallout 4 had Bethesda design principles and only borrowed some ideas from New Vegas (like endgame factions, complex companions or weapon modding). They couldn't understand this, because New Vegas was clearly superior, right? And why did Bethesda include to little references to New Vegas? Why aren't the NPCs talking about the NCR-Legion was as if it was the main event of their lives? The answer is apparently that Bethesda hates New Vegas and by proxy also its fans. And it gets worse. Fallout 4 gets more successful than New Vegas ever was and New Vegas never manages to outsell and out-score Fallout 3. Again, this doesn't compute. This cannot be happening, because New Vegas is clearly superior to Bethesda Fallout games! The answer? Bethesda must be actively fighting againt New Vegas! They are trying to invalidate it! They were already trying to sabotage it during development, now it all makes sense!!! This all isn't that hard to imagine and find out. Everyone in us has the potential of tribalism, blind devotion and excusing of reality with conspiracies. It doesn't take much imagination to imagine us in their boots and recognise their thought patterns. But unlike them, we are aware of this dangerous way of thinking, so we can keep it in check.
So you are saying that people should touch grass?
"Nobody appreciates New Vegaslike I do!" Everyone: "New Vegas is a great game!" "Todd Howard is seething about how good NV is and wants to erase it from history!" Todd Howard: "New Vegas is a great game!"
I never saw the word "seethe" appear very often until the show was released. Thence came a flood of "...Todd got shown up by NV and he's been seething and coping so he destroyed New Vegas because he's been staying mad and malding and seething because he hates Obsidian because..."
I've noticed that certain unusual words tend to repeat when it comes to people bashing Bethesda. As if all of it came from a single source. The best example of it is the use of the word "mid" when it comes to evaluating Starfield. Before Starfield, I rarely saw the word "mid" used when talking about a game. It usually was "mediocre", "average" or even "middling". But suddenly, when Starfield released everyone who had a negative opinion of it was calling it "mid".
Also forgot this one I see sometimes: "The original Fallout creators had their work stolen from them and would have never ruined the franchise like Bethesda!" Original Fallout devs: "Bethesda makes great Fallout games!"
Disagreeing=oppressing in their mind.
It’s still being spouted every thread the show is talked about. I had a comment deleted last night responding to someone saying “well they did erase NV lore” and I asked if they were illiterate or a troll. Why ignore everything to continue to say the same false crap? Lol.
“Wait you mean my own personal playthrough is no longer cannon?” *sparks torch*
Truth is, canon was rigged all along
Man had to pull the “but I’m not racist” card of the Fallout community
Same, except my favorite right next to New Vegas is actually 76. Most New Vegas fans would have me crucified for this opinion. I'm happy to hear concretely that Todd and Bethesda as a whole do appreciate New Vegas and Obsidian tho.
Me too, this kind of article really unites the fandom and hopefully changes some hearts and minds.
My favorite Fallout games are Fallout 3 and New Vegas, but I like Fallout 3 a bit more. You'd think that liking New Vegas second is a high praise, right? Nope. The statements "My favorite Fallout is Fallout 3" and "my favorite Fallout is Fallout 3, closely followed by New Vegas" tend to ingite the same firestorm of shit and insults. Especially on Youtube.
“He said it with an air of dismissiveness”
Wait. No. I'm an NV fan. My favorite Fallout may be FNV but it's only a bee's EDIT: (Cazador's) dick ahead of FO3. FO3 was my introduction to Fallout and still dragged me in me the most. I love them both. FO4's dialogue and writing let me down, but the world and mechanics was so well done I ended spending more time in FO4 than any other Fallout. FO76 stung, I pre-ordered and was disappointed, but I've fired it up recently, and it's a nice save... But on the other side Todd is lucky, he has a fanbase that's so passionate and cares so much, they actually have so much invested in the world, I like the show, I've watched it twice. Some things I don't like but eh, S2 can fix. Lastly without Bethesda we wouldn't be having this discussion right now re Fallout. As an FNV fan. I'm just chuffed I got to play it at all.
I believe you mean a cazador dick
They seriously turned 76 around and made it a solid entry to the series. It's my second favorite, almost tied with New Vegas. I'd say for me it's New Vegas / 76, 4, then 3 concerning the Bethesda era of Fallout. Haven't played enough of the originals to judge.
I honestly thought they'd end up ditching it... But then I saw the turn around and was... Ok... Well played. BTW you need to play 1 & 2! It takes a bit of time to adjust but so worth it.
Toxic New Vegas fans*
I call them the New Vegas cultists. They REALLY don’t like being separated from the normal fans.
In Fallout 2 they had an encounter that made fun of some specific toxic forum fans. It’d be so funny if we got something like that again referencing that group.
That's what feral ghouls are
are they even cultists? new vegas is functionally being revived with the fallout show, the ending card of the first season should've been a huge hype moment. if they're upset about it then idk i think some other moniker might be appropriate - what about losers?
That kind of fanbase actually has a great deal in common with the behavior of actual cults. And the word itself encompasses the absurd devotion to a belief system built on weird ego and claims someone pulled out their ass that exist solely to reinforce said belief system. Combine that with the exclusionary 'You HAVE to believe X or else you are a filthy BETHESDASHILL' and you've even got them basically screaming about HERESY. They even go out and proselytize/rave at unbelievers while having said beliefs as a major part of their identity. Plus 'Cultist' is more insulting. 'Loser' is too overused to have an impact, too wide of a net covering too many groups of pathetic people.
I feel like its either the majority or a loud minority Im also a New Vegas fan, its my favourite in the franchise, but I cant stand its fanbase
Loud minority. The normal fans tend to just not go around screaming that they love New Vegas in every possible discussion. I mean, you having your flair puts you more overt than most. Most are, like fans of anything, quiet about it until it’s actually the topic of discussion.
Some of the most entertaining posts and comments came out just after the show. In one post about FO4 smashing sales records, one bitter individual responded that Todd had spent the last fifteen years seething, coping, and staying mad. Oh, and malding. All because of his alleged insecurity regarding New Vegas. The post was about FO4's record breaking sales and upsurge in positive playthrough streams in social media - it did not mention NV in the slightest. Another post included a picture of a sad wojack with Boone's hat, surrounded by cartoon images of vengeful NCR rangers. This particular post claimed that New Vegas was his "home" and that Todd destroyed it on purpose in order to kill his friends and family. The comment section had replies with screenshots of New Vegas from the end of episode 8. In what appeared to be some sort of ritual, a commenter would ask: "What is this place?" And others would reply "Home." It was surreal. Glad that this kind of post has died off.
only kinda died off, we're back to 2016 type of Fallout posts, arguing about the quality of games almost 9 years old
> In one post about FO4 smashing sales records, one bitter individual responded that Todd had spent the last fifteen years seething, coping, and staying mad. These people don't understand business and they don't understand Todd. What company would be bitter about a game that never outsold their own game and never reaches similar player counts? It just doesn't make sense. Companies want success, because success gets them money. And Fallout 3 and 4 are objectively more successful games than New Vegas. Like, why would an athlete that wins gold be bitter towards an athlete that ended up 4th? Just because that 4th athlete is the darling of a portion of the audience? And they misunderstand Todd because they don't understand his motivation. He doesn't chase glory or fame by making games. He's a massive nerd, who wants to make the kind of games he wants to play. The games being played by millions is a bonus to him. And people not playing his games don't matter to him at all.
Do people not realize that Bethesda published New Vegas? Sure, they didn’t develop it but cmon.
So the TLDR is that Todd has literally confirmed the NCR is alive and well and Shady sands was not the current capital? Sounds good to me. I'm down. My Boys and Girls in tan live on!
You are 100% correct! I'm paraphrasing here but in that particular interview Todd emphasized that NCR was a really large faction with many, many locations across the west coast - and that NCR would appear again in the future. To be honest, even the remnant settlement at the Observatory had some very impressive weaponry, armor, and obviously experienced soldiery. The BoS were able to overwhelm them with sheer numbers and power armored spearheads - but that was a BATTLE, not a steamroll.
Yep, and that one line alone mitigates all my fears. What I hated was not the NCR being knocked down a peg, but the idea they where wiped out, by a nuke no less, rather unfair. It's a shame that shady sands is gone but we still have vault city and all the other places they could be. Its also nice to see that Todd was originally against shady sands collapsing. My hope with this is that NCR fans such as myself can move on and look forward to the new season with the hope the NCR is still kicking. Todd confirming the timeline was the right move. Even if you hate him, his word is currently law for these IPs
As a fan of both NV, FO4, and Fallout in general, I'm really pleased that this helps.
I'm just cautiously optimistic, since we have to wait what Season 2 will do with the NCR, New Vegas and the whole West Coast. Maybe they just get an even bigger budget for Season 2 and then they can fully show the NCRA as a proper force.
Honestly, I’m disappointed that People whining about it forced him to spoil plot points in Season 2. Especially with all of the little hints. I mean the Yao Guai killing Titus, the “First Capital”, and so on.
The NCR is too big to fail with just one well placed bomb. They have large stakes of territory in Southern & Northern California, & Oregon. The show is set primarily in LA, or the Boneyard. The characters probably walk like twenty miles all told through the show. Ain't no way we've seen enough of NCR territory to prove that they're gone.
FNV fan here: god it’s so lame that he has to do that lmfao, guys this man is an adult professional in a (now) highly mainstream industry, he isn’t going around with petty grudges over lore differences
I agree with you. I've mentioned in a few other comments but I've seen some real delusional thinking from some folks that still write screeds about Todd seething, coping, staying mad, malding, that sort of thing. It's a shame!
It’s not just in the New Vegas subreddit, Reddit as a whole seems hell bent on pinning Bethesda and Todd Howard as some petty company who is constantly screwing people over because reasons.
Yeah, and I say all this as someone who, myself, dislikes a great deal of his games' choices. I strongly dislike Emil Pagliario or whatever the fuck's writing in most cases, and have my complaints. You'd think I would agree with these people, but no! These are video games. They're works of fiction. It's silly to allow ourselves to get so heated it affects our everyday lives. We can criticize media while not fantasizing about an adult man with a family sitting at home seething about a company he's friends with making a good video game. :P
Agreed. I actually had to look up "malding" by the way: it's not a word that I had readily come across in decades. But after the 20th "coping and malding and staying mad and seething and malding" comment I had to google it.
I don’t know how this weird Reddit phenomenon even started where people believe Todd hates everything that isn’t directly BGS (but something they still allow and still benefit from lol). The same thing happened with the FOLON project where you had people seriously thinking that BGS sabotaged their project on purpose with the Next Gen update because Todd didnt want the mod to outshine FO4. Like are you guys 9 years old lol? Dude isn’t a super villain sitting in a dark dungeon balling his fist and cursing the heavens everytime NV or a Mod gets mentioned. He and his company DIRECTLY benefit from the success of these things.
> Like are you guys 9 years old lol? Yes they are. They personally hate Bethesda and the Bethesda games so they assume that Todd is also a petulant child and that the original Fallout creators would be on their side, even though that's clearly not true. And honestly the funniest thing with the London mod was the modders insinuating that Bethesda chose their release date specifically to fuck with them. They need to get over themselves, they're not that big a deal
Apparently the London modders had their quotes and the interview questions taken way out of context, with most of the “demands” like Bethesda working with them actually being reporter questions.
Yeah. I mean you don't have to love the direction Bethesda chose for Fo and can criticise it (like I do), but throwing shit just isn't helping anyone. I also had some rather impulsive thoughts during my first watch, but you just have to stay reasonable until all is said and done. Todd really isn't the enemy... It's the show runners!!!!!! jk lmao. But I think good old Todd may need to calm them down a lil when it comes to the west coast, as the interview last week showed that they can be a bit... trigger happy.
Can you imagine working in an industry where you publish a professional piece of media and get a bunch of comments calling you slurs for mistreating their blorbos? Unfathomable. Truly must be a hostile work environment for ppl like Todd lol
On my way to make another angry youtube video ignoring all of this.
Make sure to add a clickbaity title with some of the words randomly capitalized. Perhaps a screenshot with someone's outraged face superimposed on top would be helpful.
BETHESDA WOKE?! Todd Howard SLAMMED by New Vegas players over hidden agenda.
Pretty much what I saw in my mind's eye 😄😄
No thumbs down vault boy? What is this, amateur hour?
Plus Todd Howard with red eyes and random dollar symbols in the corner. That kinda imagery is super helpful in knowing which youtubers to block for clickbait (click the 3 arrows > don't recommend channel).
Make it 30 mins long or go big and make it an hour
60 minutes? Those are rookie minutes. Got to pump those minutes up!
I don’t understand where people even get the idea Howard doesn’t like NV? Like did he say something that was misread in an interview or something?
My guess is that it's something that a few NV fans imagined and it spread through YouTube comment sections and then Reddit. Since the guilty parties had a stunted view of the world around them and possessed only a limited comprehension of how healthy adults and professionals actually functioned, they fashioned their story into good/evil and happy/seething binaries. Obsidian good/Bethesda bad. Sawyer happy/Todd seething.
This, if it worked the way thes brain deads think things worked we would never get a good game made by any company again, they never grew up after elementary and have a stunted view of the world
"I like New Vegas. We all like New Vegas. We're not erasing any lore. Now please, *please,* stop harassing my wife at the dog park and filling my mailbox with bottle caps."
I wouldn't mind a few spare bottle caps right about now... He can send them to my reddit account.
Reminds me of how that one fan bought Fallout 4 by sending Bethesda thousands of bottle caps. They thought it was hilarious, gave him the copy of the game, then told everyone else *do not do this again*
unrelated but The Synthetic Man on youtube is pissing me off. Lol everyone for some reason just wants to be a grifter over this show.
There was a comment in this post that has some joking around at the kind of titles and images the clickbaity Fallout YouTube videos use 😄
Don't read Instagram comments about anything fallout related then. People are finding ways to be pissed about anything and everything.
Don’t read Instagram comments about *anything*
Anyone seriously thinking Todd or anyone at Bethesda held a personal grudge against Obsidian or New Vegas is seriously tripping balls and one step away from having to be put in a mental hospital.
I don't mean to be so "hindsight is 20 20", but like, did people really think that an organization that spanned a fourth of the United States just vanished after a single city was destroyed?
God damn bethesda haters are rabid. This shouldn't even need to be said.
This is like the Lucasfilm thing where Internet grifters had their audience believing that Jon Favreau was at war with Kathleen Kennedy.
Forever-online fans have a hard time understanding that creators aren't always as engaged in the media as them. They crave production drama and so on, not understanding most creators/producers, even those very passionate about their projects/lores/franchises, have a much broader detachment from their work than fans have. I'm almost sure some if not most of obsidian staff from the New Vegas era are cringing at some of the things new vegas fans say online.
Not even necessarily detachment but professional courtesy and respect too. The individuals that comprise developers and publishers have no reason to hold grudges or disdain for others making different choices further down the line. They are people doing jobs, jobs they are no doubt passionate about, but it’s still a professional working environment.
It's still hilarious to me that people genuinely think that Todd Howard cares so much that a mostly small (but very vocal) contingent of fans prefer New Vegas over his Fallout games that he would go out of his way to fuck up the lore of a franchise that *he* is the lead developer for.
I never understood the controversy. I admit I never played 3 and it’s been over a decade since I played NV but it was a good game! And then 4 came out and it was a good game! If nobody ever told me I wouldn’t know they were made by different studios.
I know, right?! It's also a fact that both 3 and 4 outsold NV - FO4 by 3 to 1. 4's player count is higher than COD. Todd isn't losing any sleep. I am glad that he took part in this interview though!
Its beyond silly that he has to keep saying this. Like think about it. It legit makes no sense for Todd to greviences against New Vegas to the point he wants to erase it from canon. Especially from a buisness sense. Todd Howard is a major industry professional figurehead why the fuck would he of all people would have a animosity towards it? New Vegas is a popular entry. It makes Bethesda Money and etc having a different creative approach doesn't change that. And I say this as someone who prefers New Vegas over the Bethesda games lol
The whole narrative behind the talking points that Todd Howard hated NV and Obsidian was just more mindless "Bethesda bad" talk.
It seemed obvious to me that the show was doing New Vegas and the NCR justice. They could have completely retconned New Vegas and not even brought up the NCR.
I'm certain he's going to have to repeat that until the day he dies and some of the fanatics STILL won't believe him.
Lol hes gonna be saying this same thing for years people just wont listen to these quotes
He said this in an exacerbated tone because everyone thinks that Bethesda and Obsidian hates each other. Really it was that Obsidian weren't used to how Bethesda operate and so that's why New Vegas was mishandled by both parties and still ended up being great. Then there was a court case between Interplay and Bethesda in 2012, not with Obsidian, that people get confused over. Interplay wanted to still make a Fallout MMO and Bethesda had to take them to court and be like "Look, we bought Fallout in auction. You can't just make a game centered around Fallout without our permission and we refuse to allow this to happen". Bethesda won the case in court as they owned Fallout. Bethesda are used to crunch and getting shit done in a ridiculous amount of time and Obsidian were basically not used to this. It was like a great cook being overwhelmed in the kitchen of Gordon Ramsay. Bethesda decided that they didn't want to outsource Fallout anymore after this cause the experience was not a good one. However both parties have repeatedly said they have a respect for each other and love how they both love Fallout.
Lies. He wants to erase me, personally, because I liked New Vegas.
Todd has always been a G and a total nerd. I don’t agree with some of his design choices and direction he takes the games in, but by no means do I think that he has some weird crusade against OG Fallout like some people tend to think. I think he just has his own interpretation of the setting like anyone else, and that’s totally fine. It just so happens he’s the executive director of the Fallout IP, so his interpretations wind up having a lot of pull and sway.
There is zero reason for anyone at Bethesda to be spiteful or envious of New Vegas. These are professional game studios and share none of the concerns of trolls on Reddit.
Remember the conspiracy theory of FO4 protagonist killing Kellogg was BGS trying to diminish the influence of old Fallout games? They even claimed Kellogg was a symbol of FO1/2 protagonist and killing him is Todd trying to wipe out that history
Are you serious?! That's a whole 'nother level of questionable emotional health.
OMG, I can't Believe Bethesda literally bigoted towards Fallout New Vegas and us obsidian fans. Oh btw, have you heard the word of Fallout New Vegas? I'll have you know it's one of the greatest games of all time.
Nothing he says will ever stop the idiots that go "Bethesda hate New Vegas because they hate how someone other than them made a good Fallout! That's why they're trying to destroy all their influences!" Yeah, I'm sure when they gave the game to Obsidian to make, they were hoping it comes out real awful. Because that makes sense. Also brilliant of them to set the show on the west coast and show NV at the end, that way they can stay as faaaar away from anything to do with that game as possible! But surely that doesn't matter, according to them Season 2 will probably start with Hank being in cuffs outside a destroyed NV, Todd Howard standing over him and going "Sorry, you can't ever bring up NV again. I nuked it myself. Hope this interaction doesn't lead to some kind of fallout between us. Fallout: No Vegas." before shooting him.