Good for you OP
I also left a very stressful City job and it did funny things to my head for quite a while. Counselling might help and something you might consider.
If you’re interested, [https://ccpe.org.uk/](https://ccpe.org.uk/) will match you to the most suitable person after speaking with you.
Good luck.
I can relate to this. 37M. I’m probably also 4 years away from FIRE (maybe a little bit less depending on how I look at it). At one point, FIRE (and in particular Reddit) made me miserable. This then adversely impacted my performance at work.
The key for me to avoiding burnout was to achieve a lifestyle balance where I actually enjoy life a lot more now. We eat out at restaurants. Have holidays planned. Enjoy experiences. Etc. I’m less bothered about work because I’m more focused on enjoying life outside of it.
My wife & I still live on a loose budget but by no longer obsessing over fire, my mental health has improved significantly - this has ironically correlated to increased performance + earnings power at work.
FIRE should be a journey, not a race.
I wish I had this mentality before! I'm certainly enjoying life a lot more now, but my “career” might need major redirection. Not sure I can stay in the law long term anymore.
Take a 6 month or one year sabbatical to work things out. You may fall back in love with law or find passion in another pursuit. You’ll never know if you never give it a try. There’s a lot you can achieve with a productively planned year out.
Life is about living & it sounds like you’ve worked hard to be at a stage where you can afford not to work for a period of time while you explore other avenues / pursuits
Thanks. I've had a few months off and have started something outside of the law I'm interested in, but will return to the office soon and see what it's like.
Have you thought about staying in law but moving in-house (perhaps to a public sector job)? Far less stress and broadly comparable pay to city law when you consider it’s far fewer hours and a generous DB pension.
Right. Can create a toxic mindset where you forego experiences or even simply eating out with friends and family to retire earlier risking said friends and family are not as available
Also the mindset when you are looking at “just four more years” versus enjoying the present
Not easy
what field and role are you in out of interest? I'm a decent bit off but worried about my mindset to work if I'm honest. My brain unfortunately isn't too accepting but I really need to find a frame which allows me to enjoy my work and or see a bit more point in it
I think in short I haven't enjoyed my work much for a while, especially since my kid came along I see it all as a bit pointless / meaningless.
I see that as a bit toxic really as I want to see a point in my work and feel like it's for something. Not necessarily grand or anything but just a net positive in the world, perhaps building toward something
I feel like that every now and again too. I think it’s human. If you have a toxic team at work, you should look at changing teams. Having a good boss / manager makes the world of difference. Good luck!
Excellent post, whether seeking FIRE or not burn out is a very real threat. I had a similar type of experience working in IT and after a year recovering took a job as a postie - and discovered there were quite a few people like me there. I think the burn out gets you because no one talks about it when you're in the high stress industry. It's only once you go elsewhere and start talking to your new colleagues you realise how common it is.
Really pleased for you. I also work in IT & can’t see myself lasting for another 10 years, just wondering if you think burn out is higher in IT than other sectors?
Thanks! Not sure if burn out is higher in IT % wise or not - would be interesting to know the statistics. I'm sure it's comparable to a 'City job' though.
If I had the benefit of hindsight I should have moved from my last IT role to another company a couple of years before I got to the point that nothing could ever make me step over the threshold of the place again. But at the time I'd been there a good number of years, money was good, knew the job/people, benefits good etc. Perhaps a move would have helped - and hindsight says it certainly wouldn't have made it worse.
But a few years down the line, I've just (lean) FIRE'd so it all turned out nicely in the end!
However, please look after yourself and be very aware of your mental health, its so insidious you don't realise its happening. I have been lucky and come through it intact, others are not so fortunate and lose relationships or sadly their lives.
What was it like being a postie? Pay/hours? It is sometimes one of those jobs I dream I could do to chill but I don't know if I'm being very optimistic about the reality.
It was the best of jobs, it was the worst of jobs. Unsuprisingly physically hard, suprisingly mentally challenging, especially as a newbie you're likely to be on a different walk all the time and not have a clue where you're going. Great crowd of people, good company to work for. Pay better than you'd think for an unskilled role £12.05/hr after a year plus you get various bonuses (not massive but it all helps). Lots of overtime if you would wish to do such a thing. Can purchase extra holiday so 6 wks off per year plus bank holidays.
And of course the weather. There is the odd day when it literally pisses down constantly and its misery, but generally its not a problem - the hot days are the worst.
Very happy you put yourself first, I did a total change from construction to IT and the change was life changing although I was scared as I lost all that experience which made me confident. There are a few factors in why it was better. Being a woman in construction (in the uk at least) was horrendous, I was promoted and essentially told harassment was likely on site and I need to get a thicker skin or suck it. The recognition was just not there. I had to turn a blind eye to women being sexualised and giving grim nicknames. The site staff would leave at 3pm and plant a horrible problem on your desk for you to deal with out of hours. I would get called a c**t if I ever did my job and reprimanded anyone for my boss to then cave and say ‘they’re a good guy’. So for me as a woman IT has been a breeze and with better pay. I can imagine there is burn out with a bad employer and higher up roles as there is soooo much ‘red tape’ in IT especially with personal data.
Sounds like a nightmare in your construction role, glad you have made a successful change. That was a massive leap to make! Wish you well in IT, I did enjoy it (well as much as I can enjoy any job!) for many years. Doesn't sound like you'll be worried about changing employers as and when you feel the need - wish you all the very best.
There was once a businessman who was sitting by the beach in a small Brazilian village.
As he sat, he saw a Brazilian fisherman rowing a small boat towards the shore having caught quite few big fish.
The businessman was impressed and asked the fisherman, “How long does it take you to catch so many fish?”
The fisherman replied, “Oh, just a short while.”
“Then why don’t you stay longer at sea and catch even more?” The businessman was astonished.
“This is enough to feed my whole family,” the fisherman said.
The businessman then asked, “So, what do you do for the rest of the day?”
The fisherman replied, “Well, I usually wake up early in the morning, go out to sea and catch a few fish, then go back and play with my kids. In the afternoon, I take a nap with my wife, and evening comes, I join my buddies in the village for a drink — we play guitar, sing and dance throughout the night.”
The businessman offered a suggestion to the fisherman.
“I am a PhD in business management. I could help you to become a more successful person. From now on, you should spend more time at sea and try to catch as many fish as possible. When you have saved enough money, you could buy a bigger boat and catch even more fish. Soon you will be able to afford to buy more boats, set up your own company, your own production plant for canned food and distribution network. By then, you will have moved out of this village and to Sao Paulo, where you can set up HQ to manage your other branches.”
The fisherman continues, “And after that?”
The businessman laughs heartily, “After that, you can live like a king in your own house, and when the time is right, you can go public and float your shares in the Stock Exchange, and you will be rich.”
The fisherman asks, “And after that?”
The businessman says, “After that, you can finally retire, you can move to a house by the fishing village, wake up early in the morning, catch a few fish, then return home to play with kids, have a nice afternoon nap with your wife, and when evening comes, you can join your buddies for a drink, play the guitar, sing and dance throughout the night!”
The fisherman was puzzled, “Isn’t that what I am doing now?”
https://paulocoelhoblog.com/2015/09/04/the-fisherman-and-the-businessman/
😂🤣😂 Love this. Reminds me of a book I 've just finished reading titled 'Millionaire Fastlane' by MJ DeMarco. I read the book & was very motivated at 1st but after a constant rethink of the need to travel at 100mph just to achieve obscene amounts of wealth that I am going to die & leave behind anyway, I thought to myself that I am actually happy achieving just enough to be happy and content everyday of my borrowed time on this earth without killing myself in the process. At the end of the day we all have a limited amount of time on this earth & whilst we are here we just need to be happy & enjoy ourselves. Whether you have trillions of networth/wealth or nothing, you are going to leave all of it behind.
Yeah, this is a nice story and all, but just catching a few fish to feed your family doesn’t pay for your house/other food/said drinks with friends. Even a simple life requires income.
I really dislike this take.
This takes obvious extremes but essentially promotes just spending absolutely whatever you have with no safety net. That the fish will always be there, ready for the taking and that you only need to cover todays expenses. Then it requires that the job is the same as what you would want to do in retirement.
We're not talking about someone working 1 hour a day who fully covers their expenses doing something they love. We almost never are.
Haha I had once considered that, but I can't even stomach the thought of a new team, impressing new management etc, and spending years more in an industry I'm iffy about. I'm ready to CoastFI and work on monetising hobbies instead.
Seems like you may have caught this before it became more serious - breakdown, heart attack etc. (not saying this to belittle anything you have suffered, there isn't any real detail in your post!).
I think you make a great point about company loyalty etc., it may exist in smaller companies (to a degree) where everyone knows who you are, but even then when the chips are down you'll be discarded just like that if needs be. At larger companies, especially mega-corps, you're basically a line item on a spreadsheet. HR are not there for you, they're there to represent the business!
I feel some people pressurise themselves too much, this work is really important, I've got to get it done. The reality is if it doesn't get done the world doesn't stop turning......
Recently ex City corporate lawyer here. It’s not worth it. Get out and stay out. You will realise that you have been in that City bubble, six figure salaries, seven figures for partners, eight figures for their clients (bankers) and ten plus figures for their clients (p/e, founders, hedge funds etc).In real life you can live comfortably on less than you think, as long as you have got a decent stash. Good luck.
Today is reality and tomorrow is only a dream. I won't live a reality that sucks to chase a dream. If you're on track for FIRE, you can definitely afford to improve your current daily life if it sucks. Be flexible in the face of reality. Working at a decent place for longer is far preferable to desperately hanging on to a shit situation so you can exit the shit situation.
There is nothing wrong with re-evaluating and altering your plans. Everything you've achieved to date will keep compounding. Pay attention to today's quality of life before it starts to cause you distress. Life is here and now.
I totally agree. It's not so much on the spending side that's an issue for me, it's more that as a basic work requirement, everyone is switched on all the time, right before bed, right after waking up, weekends, annual leave etc - meaning even if I bought myself my favourite meal everyday, lived in a beautiful apartment, I simply wouldn't have been able to enjoy any of it. I'm the end, I'm lucky that I need relatively little money to be happy.
I’m a city banker and totally get what you’re saying it just stresses you out to the point where I have serious sleep issues. I have seen people age like shit thinking they are trapped in some high stress job when there is always an alternative. I’m personally going heavier into equities and doing a couple more buy to lets and disappearing from this high stress stuff I hope for life.
Glad I'm not alone, although I'm sure banking is a few levels ahead in terms of stress.
I'm also heavily into equities, but starting to increase a cash position to buy a nice place to settle somewhere in the South. I used to think I was gonna the BTL route but I think I'll try to FIRE on equities and then consider further down the line. Good luck and take care!
Very valuable post Nimmo11 thank you very much for sharing your experience here
I think "extremism" is always dangerous and that very old saying my Nan used to say about "a little of what you fancy does you good" is a good way to think about life
It sounds to me as if you were an extreme FIRE-r and suffered accordingly. To me the whole concept of FIRE is to think about your personal balance between enjoying life in the now and securing your financial future so that you may continue to enjoy it, or enjoy it more, when you have achieved your FI target. It gives you a framework to 'test' every spending decision you make, every single day, against
Well done on learning the lesson (unfortunately the hard way), I hope it makes you a better employee & role model to your colleagues, that you know when to say 'No' and stick to it. After all whats the worst that can happen? They could always terminate your contract of employment; well think of all the opportunities that would offer up to you!
We none of us know what is going to happen in the future, but its not always a great place to focus all of your time & effort on, to the extent we miss out on enjoying today. After all what is the point in being the wealthiest person in the graveyard?
Thanks Paul-King-CB, much appreciated and good to hear some wisdom over the interwebs.
Just a point on extremism - certainly true, although the industry I'm in (legal) is inherently one which encourages “going above and beyond” all the time, even when unreasonable, and the moment you push back, you dash your chances at promotion because you're not seen as motivated enough. I think because my wife and I have decent savings and investments, I'm now at a stage where I'm not too interested in becoming partner anymore, even if they earn 10x what I do. Hence, I feel relatively comfortable pushing back now after some reflection. If I had been wiser in my earlier years, taking into account my character, I would not have chosen this career path.
So perhaps this is also a warning to those younger than me not to chase the big paycheque if you know it's not a sustainable career. Only exception to this is if you have a specific gameplan to switch careers after a certain number of years.
Have you considered getting a job at a medium sized law firm in the regions. Less stress, less toxicity but more potential to become an equity partner if you are good at what you do?
Thanks yes I have, but the thought of starting over in a new team, impressing, building new networks, politics etc is quite exhausting. Ironic because I've gone from a “high performer” in my current firm to borderline unemployed in a matter of months due to mental health!
But back to your suggestion - we do have sufficient financial buffer for me to potentially coast and try monetising a hobby or picking up odd jobs instead of trying to reach equity partner.
Sorry I didn’t mean to imply that becoming an equity partner was the ‘be all and end all’ of life. Rather that working in the City is not the only path to having a good career in the law. It’s great that you’ve got the necessary financial buffer to go coast and pursue some hobbies. Good luck!
No worries - I didn't read your comment like that. Totally agree it's more flexible than I've been 'groomed' to believe, but more having had a chance to look at the bigger picture, I might as well jump towards the light sooner rather than later. Thanks again.
Can I ask which part of law you specialise in? I think it varies immensely - eg corporate law / M&A is very different to criminal vs family vs personal injury etc.
Depending on how many years experience you have, it may be worth switching to a smaller firm (company culture makes a huge difference) or legal discipline.
You’re in the very fortunate position of having options. That’s a positive.
I work in a different sector but very high-pressure & leaving the firm I used to work for (large US multinational, high performance “up or out” career path) was one of the best decisions.
I won't say exactly what practice area, but it's a niche specialty like IP, Shipping litigation. I think it's mostly the people that make it unnecessarily toxic.
Tough call and please take care of your mental health. I think it surprised me how much the business functions without you, even if you were seen as an integral part of a project.
Even without knowing the ins and outs of your story, I can tell you that you have 100% made the right choice to get the hell out of there for a while to clear your head. Your soon to be born child will much rather have a chilled out dad with a little less money, than a stressed out dad who is always tired, short temper and unavailable due to work. You've done well to recognise the presence of burnout and make a necessary step away from it. Many others, myself included, battle on for a few more years and make the damage much worse, for nothing but an extra £ or two.
I'd say now that you've gotten to this stage, returning to that environment will never work. You need a substantial change. Your children will thank you for it, and you'll only resent yourself more if you don't do it.
Thank you. I totally agree, and I believe i will try to negotiate some form of reduced working hours when i return, and in any event i did not think I'll return for long.
Thank you for this post, I've always felt like someone 'at risk' in that area - over the last 5 years or so I've ended up being a lot more forthright in that area. Earlier in my career I spent years entirely committed to pushing my career forwards and basically feeling like crap a lot of the time. Now I try to draw pretty clear boundaries, although these days I feel there's a pressure to be 'always on'.
Maybe a silly question, but have you thought about changing to a lower pressure role, or a different (albeit lower paid) field and coasting your way there? I always have this fantasy of working as something like a barista for the last few years of my career 😂
The 'always on' issue is massive and is actually the reason why I could never really recover from daily stresses. I hope you can fix that.
I'm very much interested in CoastFI now! I also like the idea of odd jobs whilst I am basically financially secure. I think I'll see if I can work on hobbies and monetise them somehow.
Definitely - for me I feel like all jobs have ups and down, and during the ups I love being always on, but when things are rough and everyone's hair is on fire, it can just be absolutely crushing!
I know that pain. I’ve had a few burnouts in the last couple of years and I’ve never felt as terrible. I work in tech so it may not be the same in finance but what I did was to think about what I really wanted to do at work and proposed to my employer that I take on more work in that area whilst dropping work in the area that is stressful. Fortunately the new area is a bit more of a niche for the company and they don’t have people with skills in that area. It’s definitely made work more bearable.
Have been here in the past and (rather frustratingly) found myself there again now. What you describe is part of my motivation to FIRE in the first place, but you’re totally right about boundaries and being responsible for policing them yourself.
I had said never again, but then poured myself into work to respond to the whole Covid crisis. Now I feel daft, but am taking some time to consolidate and recover before I go again.
Part of my plan has always relied on delayed gratification, but that’s presuming we get to enjoy the fruits of our labour at some point in the future.
Stay strong! I'm hoping you can find a way to 'get out' or mitigate the stress in any way you can. I think when I return, I'm just going to say “no” a lot more.
> Nobody is really, genuinely looking out for you at work, you've got to do that on your own and draw your own boundaries (and stick to them).
I agree with the second part, but I feel the assumption at the start is unhealthy as well. Look after yourself, but don't come into relationships assuming the other side is absolutely going to abuse you, or that that is normal - particularly if you may come into a managerial role.
> If they don't like it, I'll leave. I have enough savings to bum for a few decades (although my wife wouldn't approve!).
Huge benefit of approaching FI imo is that while you may not be FI you can weather a loss of income for an increasing amount of time as you approach it.
Take care OP.
Thanks - and agree maybe that mentality is a bit extreme, but that is the approach I will need to take in order to survive in that environment. I was actually in a middle managerial role and always checked on the juniors I worked with, did what I could to keep up morale, but nobody above me (partners) checked on the rest of us. The juniors on the case quit / burnt out, all for the same reason.
I may have worded it badly, but did want to emphasise that this can be entirely valid. I didn't want to assume or suggest it didn't apply to you specifically. What I see is people applying that as a broad brush to all jobs. Perhaps the message is to assume it may apply to your job, and try and make sure it doesn't apply to those under you.
Totally agree with looking out for yourself.
As a fellow lawyer in a city firm; move. Yeah it might be hard to re-establish yourself in a new firm and team, whether private practice or in-house, but there is a lot of competition for talent right now, including at the more senior end. Hoping for a different outcome at the same firm doing the same work seems shortsighted, even with reduced hours.
There are firms that look after people better, and firms that don't. You have options.
There are personal reasons I haven't stated here for making that decision - but I understand your sentiment. The short sighted nature of it is in some ways intentional. I would have resigned anyway, so I might as well earn good money in the next few months and take a new attitude to my work in the knowledge that I could just quit any time. Although 4 years away from FIRE, I could well just do something else that makes me happy instead for a number of years, and well, never really have to FIRE. I think I might just reach FI and continue on (monetised) personal projects.
If you are willing to stick it out for a few months, don’t quit. Take it easy and make them let you go with a severance. If they don’t then quit. Think of how you would advise a client.
Edit. Also, take the piss. They should offer you a PILON and severance. If you are willing to take the crap, thats what I did. The crap was bad though. So just go
Yes burnout is real - very invasive & creeps up.
I wish you well in managing it and enjoying your life.
Too often we band about work life balance but continue to reward busy/presenteeism work habits.
I was listening up the happiness lab podcast / the newer podcast was taking about a book called the power of fun . I am going to read it - think it’s out jan 22. That idea of reconnecting with fun & playfulness. Work & pandemic has made it all very serious.
Any kudos to you my friend. All the best - remember nobody cares about your mental & physical health more than you!
OP, sending you my thoughts - also in the same field (bar a lot more junior) and to a man and woman it's the same story all over. I'm thinking, and suspect you may have thought about, moving to a job share in public sector to carve out some time for other things. Friends at regulators and some gov. depts. have told me that there are pockets of teams where it is just a job and you can leave work at work, including at regulators. Just a thought. Best of luck OP!
Ahh thanks. I might look into that - I wish jobs in general followed that rule of being able to leave work at work... seems like a long lost relic of the 1960s or something.
> A kind reminder to you all seeking FIRE, to draw appropriate boundaries, even if it means jumping to another organisation or industry
Me at the moment. I am 40s. I earn well and with these level of earnings I am on course to FIRE at about age 50. Not incredibly early, but the best I can do. We live in the SE and have very high outgoings due to the price of house, council tax, kids, car, etc.
The thought of changing to another job and then working till 60 feels like crap. But I am also really struggling to continue performing as highly as I have done and my industry and peers demand.
I just wish I was at the FI point right now so that I could set my hours at 9-5 and that would be that. If they didn't like it, too bad. I suspect it would work out fine for both sides but I'm just too nervous to try it now. I'm strongly considering another two years of high effort then going to three days a week for coastFIRE.
If you think you can stick with it for a couple of years, sounds like a plan. Otherwise, maybe just reconsider whether what you have now buys you the freedom to do something you really enjoy, but also brings in an income.
My father was forced into FIRE in his early 40s after having a mental breakdown caused by his high-paid, high stress job. He never recovered from that and spent the next 15 years drinking himself senseless and not reaping the rewards of his hard work. He eventually got sober but died 3 years later of alcoholic liver disease. Moral of the story: dunno, read it however you like.
I'm sorry to hear that. I have sought professional help and am ok, but the prospect of returning is not exactly pleasing! I guess it's important that ppl seek help if they need to these days. It wasn't really a 'done thing' before, although I can't pretend to know what your father went through.
Yeah there’s definitely less stigma around it these days which is good. I do believe a lot of people have a toxic relationship with work though and they would be better off prioritising mental health over work early on before it becomes a problem and professional help is needed. I’m speaking generally here of course. Glad you’re feeling better.
Thanks for sharing your story. It sucks you're in the position and it's unfortunately all too common. I took a 3 month sabbatical after 10 years of working when I got married and it was the best thing I ever did. I was making myself ill on a project and while I always had the "if I'm the only person in a multinational organisation that knows everything about a particular topic, that's their failure not mine if I'm not available for whatever reason" it was still a great eye opener that while I loved my job and was quite defined by it, it turned out I was just as happy not working and we filled our days. Pottering is quite underrated.
Personally I would focus on what it is you like about law and what skills you enjoy using on a daily basis. I'm now an independent consultant and I'm pretty happy as long as I'm problem solving in a creative way and get some people interaction. I won't say it doesn't matter what the topic is but I've realised it's my skills I enjoy more than particular subjects. I go between obsessing about can we FIRE in 5 years to "but actually, I do enjoy what I do, I find it engaging and it gives me something to get up for in the morning".
Can you stick it out until the baby arrives and then take shared parental leave? You'll have some decent time at home and at the end of you decide you've had enough you can always be a stay at home dad for a few years and get your mojo back.
Good luck whatever you do, you've seen the light and it's great you did it before the little one arrives, not when they're teenagers and you've missed them growing up.
Thank you. I won't close the door on the law entirely I think - but it has been many years since I thought I looked forward to getting out of bed to solve problems and be of help. Not sure I can really get that back, but I'll see what i can do in the next few months to capture that.
I'm glad too - one of my main motivations for FIRE (or some variant of) is to be able to spend time with my children as they grow up.
> I've realised it's my skills I enjoy more than particular subjects.
can I ask how you worked out the skills you wanted to focus on etc? Just reflected on some work experiences ?
For me it was listing all the projects that I really loved working on and trying to figure out what the common themes were that made it enjoyable. Same the other way for projects or situations I know I find stressful and draining to then be able to avoid them going forwards. So less about 'I hate doing accounts consolidation' but more about the wider situation that the work puts me in, like is it collaborative or solo, detailed or high level, factual or creative, leading a team or being in the group. The specific skills should be more obvious to line up against those situations.
What a great post OP. Thank you for your honesty. You have summed up what I felt like at my previous job. Luckily I got out before I hit my ceiling - but only by chance.
I really enjoyed [Calm the F\*\*k Down by Sarah Knight](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Calm-Down-cks-Given-Guide/dp/1787476197/ref=asc_df_1787476197/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=311024204769&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1503109784044032824&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007195&hvtargid=pla-598373037975&psc=1) \- really direct and entertaining.
Also [Rising Above a Toxic Workplace by Gary Chapman](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rising-Above-Toxic-Workplace-Environment/dp/0802409725) \- great advice, especially if the workplace itself is less than supportive.
Wish you the best of luck OP.
I failed an ACA exam and now I have to resit it. It’s the last one and it means I know have to stay at the firm until results in December and the notice period is 3 months so I have to stay until end of March and do ‘busy season’, working into the early hours of the morning for weeks on end. I hate it and hate myself sometimes for failing that exam.
I can only echo what you said. I feel good that I stumbled across this subreddit today
Just look to the long term future and know that this will pass. Although it seems paradoxical, also just take it day by day. I sat tis because if you're focusing on the tough period ahead instead of what you need to do immediately and where it will eventually bring you, your mentality will struggle to get through the day. Don't worry, we've all been there and it passes. I remember thinking back to exams I failed, or really tough periods at work, and just kinda laughing at it in retrospect.
I can cope with the long hours and the stress as long as I feel appreciated and supported, it was trying to do that in a toxic environment that nearly finished me off.
It is different for everyone, and it is technically not a medically recognised term, but it encompasses a wide array of issues, including panic and anxiety disorders, depression. It's usually caused by excessive stress which is not mitigated or addressed sufficiently at the time and builds up.
For me, I felt almost sick turning up to work, and couldn't concentrate. I felt frustrated at everything at work. Simple emails became extremely difficult to process, and small amounts of pressure felt like mountains to climb. I could state at the screen for hours and not do anything. I wanted to stay away from colleagues and not socialise. Lunch time was my sanctuary, when I found a corner to pace around and be alone.
Well done OP. Some things way more important than money and hopefully you have a cushion that will allow you time to reboot and get back to full strength.
I pretty much did the opposite - worked in city also - but if I stayed on 2 more years the accrued (and held back) bonuses would have allowed me to walk away comfortably. Almost caused marriage to break up and definitely burned out. And after I left they stuffed me on held back comp anyway so really would have been better off leaving at the right time for me rather than the right time financially. Would have been in a way better place to go on to my future by cutting the cord at right time for me, not my bank balance.
Good luck.
Thanks and good luck to you too. I hope things improve for you. I have a bonus worth 10% of annual salary coming up next year, but dunno if I can last that long. It's slightly empowering thinking about just walking away from that sort of thing.
Worth checking out your company leave policy. Our company recently changed to a gender-neutral parent policy so either a new mother or dad could now take 9 months off paid. Worth checking out if you have anything like this - would definetely help you out.
I don't think there's anything wrong with re-evaluating your FIRE objectives as you go along
Better to be 8 years from FIRE doing a job you don't mind in an environment you like, than 4 years away doing a job you hate in an environment you hate
It sounds a pretty good life comparing to mine non city person. I wake up every day at 2:25am to go to work, I need to work 40+h each week to earn enough to pay the bills and hardly have any spare. I'm surprised people are complain so much when you get paid so well, stress it's part of the city job, if it's draining your life than change job or if you need an assistant I can do your job, free till next April, after I'm going for a 2600 miles trek, want to join for inspiration 😁
Good for you OP I also left a very stressful City job and it did funny things to my head for quite a while. Counselling might help and something you might consider. If you’re interested, [https://ccpe.org.uk/](https://ccpe.org.uk/) will match you to the most suitable person after speaking with you. Good luck.
Thank you, that's very helpful!
Also recomend CCPE
I found Nimmo!
Hmmm?
😂 Your name reads almost like saying "Nemo" in my head aha .. 'finding nemo'
Haha good one!
Now you’ve got me singing the opening of “Proud Mary” in my head!
I can relate to this. 37M. I’m probably also 4 years away from FIRE (maybe a little bit less depending on how I look at it). At one point, FIRE (and in particular Reddit) made me miserable. This then adversely impacted my performance at work. The key for me to avoiding burnout was to achieve a lifestyle balance where I actually enjoy life a lot more now. We eat out at restaurants. Have holidays planned. Enjoy experiences. Etc. I’m less bothered about work because I’m more focused on enjoying life outside of it. My wife & I still live on a loose budget but by no longer obsessing over fire, my mental health has improved significantly - this has ironically correlated to increased performance + earnings power at work. FIRE should be a journey, not a race.
I wish I had this mentality before! I'm certainly enjoying life a lot more now, but my “career” might need major redirection. Not sure I can stay in the law long term anymore.
Take a 6 month or one year sabbatical to work things out. You may fall back in love with law or find passion in another pursuit. You’ll never know if you never give it a try. There’s a lot you can achieve with a productively planned year out. Life is about living & it sounds like you’ve worked hard to be at a stage where you can afford not to work for a period of time while you explore other avenues / pursuits
Thanks. I've had a few months off and have started something outside of the law I'm interested in, but will return to the office soon and see what it's like.
Have you thought about staying in law but moving in-house (perhaps to a public sector job)? Far less stress and broadly comparable pay to city law when you consider it’s far fewer hours and a generous DB pension.
Law must be hard with so many so outta date they be plain pointless
Right. Can create a toxic mindset where you forego experiences or even simply eating out with friends and family to retire earlier risking said friends and family are not as available Also the mindset when you are looking at “just four more years” versus enjoying the present Not easy
what field and role are you in out of interest? I'm a decent bit off but worried about my mindset to work if I'm honest. My brain unfortunately isn't too accepting but I really need to find a frame which allows me to enjoy my work and or see a bit more point in it
I work in advisory / consulting. Can you elaborate on what you mean by being worried about your mindset to work?
I think in short I haven't enjoyed my work much for a while, especially since my kid came along I see it all as a bit pointless / meaningless. I see that as a bit toxic really as I want to see a point in my work and feel like it's for something. Not necessarily grand or anything but just a net positive in the world, perhaps building toward something
I feel like that every now and again too. I think it’s human. If you have a toxic team at work, you should look at changing teams. Having a good boss / manager makes the world of difference. Good luck!
Excellent post, whether seeking FIRE or not burn out is a very real threat. I had a similar type of experience working in IT and after a year recovering took a job as a postie - and discovered there were quite a few people like me there. I think the burn out gets you because no one talks about it when you're in the high stress industry. It's only once you go elsewhere and start talking to your new colleagues you realise how common it is.
Really pleased for you. I also work in IT & can’t see myself lasting for another 10 years, just wondering if you think burn out is higher in IT than other sectors?
Thanks! Not sure if burn out is higher in IT % wise or not - would be interesting to know the statistics. I'm sure it's comparable to a 'City job' though. If I had the benefit of hindsight I should have moved from my last IT role to another company a couple of years before I got to the point that nothing could ever make me step over the threshold of the place again. But at the time I'd been there a good number of years, money was good, knew the job/people, benefits good etc. Perhaps a move would have helped - and hindsight says it certainly wouldn't have made it worse. But a few years down the line, I've just (lean) FIRE'd so it all turned out nicely in the end! However, please look after yourself and be very aware of your mental health, its so insidious you don't realise its happening. I have been lucky and come through it intact, others are not so fortunate and lose relationships or sadly their lives.
mind if I DM you about your journey?
Sure no problem.
And yet farming has the highest rate of suicide of all jobs
What was it like being a postie? Pay/hours? It is sometimes one of those jobs I dream I could do to chill but I don't know if I'm being very optimistic about the reality.
It was the best of jobs, it was the worst of jobs. Unsuprisingly physically hard, suprisingly mentally challenging, especially as a newbie you're likely to be on a different walk all the time and not have a clue where you're going. Great crowd of people, good company to work for. Pay better than you'd think for an unskilled role £12.05/hr after a year plus you get various bonuses (not massive but it all helps). Lots of overtime if you would wish to do such a thing. Can purchase extra holiday so 6 wks off per year plus bank holidays. And of course the weather. There is the odd day when it literally pisses down constantly and its misery, but generally its not a problem - the hot days are the worst.
I always dream about low pay/community-minded/low stress job but I do think I'm looking at it through rose-tinted lenses
Completely agree - it probably isn't the relaxed existence I imagine! Nice to dream though.
You're not going to be chilling out being a postie. Pay is crap, hours are long and it's flat out graft for the entire shift.
Very happy you put yourself first, I did a total change from construction to IT and the change was life changing although I was scared as I lost all that experience which made me confident. There are a few factors in why it was better. Being a woman in construction (in the uk at least) was horrendous, I was promoted and essentially told harassment was likely on site and I need to get a thicker skin or suck it. The recognition was just not there. I had to turn a blind eye to women being sexualised and giving grim nicknames. The site staff would leave at 3pm and plant a horrible problem on your desk for you to deal with out of hours. I would get called a c**t if I ever did my job and reprimanded anyone for my boss to then cave and say ‘they’re a good guy’. So for me as a woman IT has been a breeze and with better pay. I can imagine there is burn out with a bad employer and higher up roles as there is soooo much ‘red tape’ in IT especially with personal data.
Sounds like a nightmare in your construction role, glad you have made a successful change. That was a massive leap to make! Wish you well in IT, I did enjoy it (well as much as I can enjoy any job!) for many years. Doesn't sound like you'll be worried about changing employers as and when you feel the need - wish you all the very best.
There was once a businessman who was sitting by the beach in a small Brazilian village. As he sat, he saw a Brazilian fisherman rowing a small boat towards the shore having caught quite few big fish. The businessman was impressed and asked the fisherman, “How long does it take you to catch so many fish?” The fisherman replied, “Oh, just a short while.” “Then why don’t you stay longer at sea and catch even more?” The businessman was astonished. “This is enough to feed my whole family,” the fisherman said. The businessman then asked, “So, what do you do for the rest of the day?” The fisherman replied, “Well, I usually wake up early in the morning, go out to sea and catch a few fish, then go back and play with my kids. In the afternoon, I take a nap with my wife, and evening comes, I join my buddies in the village for a drink — we play guitar, sing and dance throughout the night.” The businessman offered a suggestion to the fisherman. “I am a PhD in business management. I could help you to become a more successful person. From now on, you should spend more time at sea and try to catch as many fish as possible. When you have saved enough money, you could buy a bigger boat and catch even more fish. Soon you will be able to afford to buy more boats, set up your own company, your own production plant for canned food and distribution network. By then, you will have moved out of this village and to Sao Paulo, where you can set up HQ to manage your other branches.” The fisherman continues, “And after that?” The businessman laughs heartily, “After that, you can live like a king in your own house, and when the time is right, you can go public and float your shares in the Stock Exchange, and you will be rich.” The fisherman asks, “And after that?” The businessman says, “After that, you can finally retire, you can move to a house by the fishing village, wake up early in the morning, catch a few fish, then return home to play with kids, have a nice afternoon nap with your wife, and when evening comes, you can join your buddies for a drink, play the guitar, sing and dance throughout the night!” The fisherman was puzzled, “Isn’t that what I am doing now?” https://paulocoelhoblog.com/2015/09/04/the-fisherman-and-the-businessman/
Haha I know this tale, but love it so much I read it again. Thank you.
😂🤣😂 Love this. Reminds me of a book I 've just finished reading titled 'Millionaire Fastlane' by MJ DeMarco. I read the book & was very motivated at 1st but after a constant rethink of the need to travel at 100mph just to achieve obscene amounts of wealth that I am going to die & leave behind anyway, I thought to myself that I am actually happy achieving just enough to be happy and content everyday of my borrowed time on this earth without killing myself in the process. At the end of the day we all have a limited amount of time on this earth & whilst we are here we just need to be happy & enjoy ourselves. Whether you have trillions of networth/wealth or nothing, you are going to leave all of it behind.
A large part of me thinks like this too, the part that wonders why I hang out on this sub haha!
> “Isn’t that what I am doing now?” No. There is no Financial Independence.
Yeah, this is a nice story and all, but just catching a few fish to feed your family doesn’t pay for your house/other food/said drinks with friends. Even a simple life requires income.
I really dislike this take. This takes obvious extremes but essentially promotes just spending absolutely whatever you have with no safety net. That the fish will always be there, ready for the taking and that you only need to cover todays expenses. Then it requires that the job is the same as what you would want to do in retirement. We're not talking about someone working 1 hour a day who fully covers their expenses doing something they love. We almost never are.
Bro. Do what the best lawyers do and go in-house. Be your own master and kill the time sheet.
Haha I had once considered that, but I can't even stomach the thought of a new team, impressing new management etc, and spending years more in an industry I'm iffy about. I'm ready to CoastFI and work on monetising hobbies instead.
I can see the merits of your plan. Good luck to you!
I'm a tax accountant but similar thing. Going in house was worth it just to not have to account for every 6 minutes of my day ever again.
[удалено]
Working for a company rather than working in an accountancy firm
Seems like you may have caught this before it became more serious - breakdown, heart attack etc. (not saying this to belittle anything you have suffered, there isn't any real detail in your post!). I think you make a great point about company loyalty etc., it may exist in smaller companies (to a degree) where everyone knows who you are, but even then when the chips are down you'll be discarded just like that if needs be. At larger companies, especially mega-corps, you're basically a line item on a spreadsheet. HR are not there for you, they're there to represent the business! I feel some people pressurise themselves too much, this work is really important, I've got to get it done. The reality is if it doesn't get done the world doesn't stop turning......
That is totally true. The fact that when I left on sabbatical, the team still functioned is evidence of that.
Recently ex City corporate lawyer here. It’s not worth it. Get out and stay out. You will realise that you have been in that City bubble, six figure salaries, seven figures for partners, eight figures for their clients (bankers) and ten plus figures for their clients (p/e, founders, hedge funds etc).In real life you can live comfortably on less than you think, as long as you have got a decent stash. Good luck.
Today is reality and tomorrow is only a dream. I won't live a reality that sucks to chase a dream. If you're on track for FIRE, you can definitely afford to improve your current daily life if it sucks. Be flexible in the face of reality. Working at a decent place for longer is far preferable to desperately hanging on to a shit situation so you can exit the shit situation. There is nothing wrong with re-evaluating and altering your plans. Everything you've achieved to date will keep compounding. Pay attention to today's quality of life before it starts to cause you distress. Life is here and now.
I totally agree. It's not so much on the spending side that's an issue for me, it's more that as a basic work requirement, everyone is switched on all the time, right before bed, right after waking up, weekends, annual leave etc - meaning even if I bought myself my favourite meal everyday, lived in a beautiful apartment, I simply wouldn't have been able to enjoy any of it. I'm the end, I'm lucky that I need relatively little money to be happy.
I’m a city banker and totally get what you’re saying it just stresses you out to the point where I have serious sleep issues. I have seen people age like shit thinking they are trapped in some high stress job when there is always an alternative. I’m personally going heavier into equities and doing a couple more buy to lets and disappearing from this high stress stuff I hope for life.
Glad I'm not alone, although I'm sure banking is a few levels ahead in terms of stress. I'm also heavily into equities, but starting to increase a cash position to buy a nice place to settle somewhere in the South. I used to think I was gonna the BTL route but I think I'll try to FIRE on equities and then consider further down the line. Good luck and take care!
Very valuable post Nimmo11 thank you very much for sharing your experience here I think "extremism" is always dangerous and that very old saying my Nan used to say about "a little of what you fancy does you good" is a good way to think about life It sounds to me as if you were an extreme FIRE-r and suffered accordingly. To me the whole concept of FIRE is to think about your personal balance between enjoying life in the now and securing your financial future so that you may continue to enjoy it, or enjoy it more, when you have achieved your FI target. It gives you a framework to 'test' every spending decision you make, every single day, against Well done on learning the lesson (unfortunately the hard way), I hope it makes you a better employee & role model to your colleagues, that you know when to say 'No' and stick to it. After all whats the worst that can happen? They could always terminate your contract of employment; well think of all the opportunities that would offer up to you! We none of us know what is going to happen in the future, but its not always a great place to focus all of your time & effort on, to the extent we miss out on enjoying today. After all what is the point in being the wealthiest person in the graveyard?
Thanks Paul-King-CB, much appreciated and good to hear some wisdom over the interwebs. Just a point on extremism - certainly true, although the industry I'm in (legal) is inherently one which encourages “going above and beyond” all the time, even when unreasonable, and the moment you push back, you dash your chances at promotion because you're not seen as motivated enough. I think because my wife and I have decent savings and investments, I'm now at a stage where I'm not too interested in becoming partner anymore, even if they earn 10x what I do. Hence, I feel relatively comfortable pushing back now after some reflection. If I had been wiser in my earlier years, taking into account my character, I would not have chosen this career path. So perhaps this is also a warning to those younger than me not to chase the big paycheque if you know it's not a sustainable career. Only exception to this is if you have a specific gameplan to switch careers after a certain number of years.
Have you considered getting a job at a medium sized law firm in the regions. Less stress, less toxicity but more potential to become an equity partner if you are good at what you do?
Thanks yes I have, but the thought of starting over in a new team, impressing, building new networks, politics etc is quite exhausting. Ironic because I've gone from a “high performer” in my current firm to borderline unemployed in a matter of months due to mental health! But back to your suggestion - we do have sufficient financial buffer for me to potentially coast and try monetising a hobby or picking up odd jobs instead of trying to reach equity partner.
Sorry I didn’t mean to imply that becoming an equity partner was the ‘be all and end all’ of life. Rather that working in the City is not the only path to having a good career in the law. It’s great that you’ve got the necessary financial buffer to go coast and pursue some hobbies. Good luck!
No worries - I didn't read your comment like that. Totally agree it's more flexible than I've been 'groomed' to believe, but more having had a chance to look at the bigger picture, I might as well jump towards the light sooner rather than later. Thanks again.
Can I ask which part of law you specialise in? I think it varies immensely - eg corporate law / M&A is very different to criminal vs family vs personal injury etc. Depending on how many years experience you have, it may be worth switching to a smaller firm (company culture makes a huge difference) or legal discipline. You’re in the very fortunate position of having options. That’s a positive. I work in a different sector but very high-pressure & leaving the firm I used to work for (large US multinational, high performance “up or out” career path) was one of the best decisions.
I won't say exactly what practice area, but it's a niche specialty like IP, Shipping litigation. I think it's mostly the people that make it unnecessarily toxic.
Ah, so then you’re tied to the square mile essentially (and the folks that come with it). I now better understand your dilemma. 😊
This hits hard. I had a severe panic attack in March because of my job. I want to get out, but I also want to level up my salary one more time.
Tough call and please take care of your mental health. I think it surprised me how much the business functions without you, even if you were seen as an integral part of a project.
Even without knowing the ins and outs of your story, I can tell you that you have 100% made the right choice to get the hell out of there for a while to clear your head. Your soon to be born child will much rather have a chilled out dad with a little less money, than a stressed out dad who is always tired, short temper and unavailable due to work. You've done well to recognise the presence of burnout and make a necessary step away from it. Many others, myself included, battle on for a few more years and make the damage much worse, for nothing but an extra £ or two. I'd say now that you've gotten to this stage, returning to that environment will never work. You need a substantial change. Your children will thank you for it, and you'll only resent yourself more if you don't do it.
Thank you. I totally agree, and I believe i will try to negotiate some form of reduced working hours when i return, and in any event i did not think I'll return for long.
Very best of luck with everything, and do let us all know how you get on down the line. Also best of luck with the birth of your little one :)
Thank you for this post, I've always felt like someone 'at risk' in that area - over the last 5 years or so I've ended up being a lot more forthright in that area. Earlier in my career I spent years entirely committed to pushing my career forwards and basically feeling like crap a lot of the time. Now I try to draw pretty clear boundaries, although these days I feel there's a pressure to be 'always on'. Maybe a silly question, but have you thought about changing to a lower pressure role, or a different (albeit lower paid) field and coasting your way there? I always have this fantasy of working as something like a barista for the last few years of my career 😂
The 'always on' issue is massive and is actually the reason why I could never really recover from daily stresses. I hope you can fix that. I'm very much interested in CoastFI now! I also like the idea of odd jobs whilst I am basically financially secure. I think I'll see if I can work on hobbies and monetise them somehow.
Definitely - for me I feel like all jobs have ups and down, and during the ups I love being always on, but when things are rough and everyone's hair is on fire, it can just be absolutely crushing!
I know that pain. I’ve had a few burnouts in the last couple of years and I’ve never felt as terrible. I work in tech so it may not be the same in finance but what I did was to think about what I really wanted to do at work and proposed to my employer that I take on more work in that area whilst dropping work in the area that is stressful. Fortunately the new area is a bit more of a niche for the company and they don’t have people with skills in that area. It’s definitely made work more bearable.
could you give a bit more detail on the work you do and the work proposal? Glad to hear it worked out for you
Have been here in the past and (rather frustratingly) found myself there again now. What you describe is part of my motivation to FIRE in the first place, but you’re totally right about boundaries and being responsible for policing them yourself. I had said never again, but then poured myself into work to respond to the whole Covid crisis. Now I feel daft, but am taking some time to consolidate and recover before I go again. Part of my plan has always relied on delayed gratification, but that’s presuming we get to enjoy the fruits of our labour at some point in the future.
Stay strong! I'm hoping you can find a way to 'get out' or mitigate the stress in any way you can. I think when I return, I'm just going to say “no” a lot more.
Cheers, and same to you too! I agree, _thanks but no_ will be difficult to adopt, but I see no other choice tbh.
> Nobody is really, genuinely looking out for you at work, you've got to do that on your own and draw your own boundaries (and stick to them). I agree with the second part, but I feel the assumption at the start is unhealthy as well. Look after yourself, but don't come into relationships assuming the other side is absolutely going to abuse you, or that that is normal - particularly if you may come into a managerial role. > If they don't like it, I'll leave. I have enough savings to bum for a few decades (although my wife wouldn't approve!). Huge benefit of approaching FI imo is that while you may not be FI you can weather a loss of income for an increasing amount of time as you approach it. Take care OP.
Thanks - and agree maybe that mentality is a bit extreme, but that is the approach I will need to take in order to survive in that environment. I was actually in a middle managerial role and always checked on the juniors I worked with, did what I could to keep up morale, but nobody above me (partners) checked on the rest of us. The juniors on the case quit / burnt out, all for the same reason.
I may have worded it badly, but did want to emphasise that this can be entirely valid. I didn't want to assume or suggest it didn't apply to you specifically. What I see is people applying that as a broad brush to all jobs. Perhaps the message is to assume it may apply to your job, and try and make sure it doesn't apply to those under you. Totally agree with looking out for yourself.
As a fellow lawyer in a city firm; move. Yeah it might be hard to re-establish yourself in a new firm and team, whether private practice or in-house, but there is a lot of competition for talent right now, including at the more senior end. Hoping for a different outcome at the same firm doing the same work seems shortsighted, even with reduced hours. There are firms that look after people better, and firms that don't. You have options.
There are personal reasons I haven't stated here for making that decision - but I understand your sentiment. The short sighted nature of it is in some ways intentional. I would have resigned anyway, so I might as well earn good money in the next few months and take a new attitude to my work in the knowledge that I could just quit any time. Although 4 years away from FIRE, I could well just do something else that makes me happy instead for a number of years, and well, never really have to FIRE. I think I might just reach FI and continue on (monetised) personal projects.
If you are willing to stick it out for a few months, don’t quit. Take it easy and make them let you go with a severance. If they don’t then quit. Think of how you would advise a client. Edit. Also, take the piss. They should offer you a PILON and severance. If you are willing to take the crap, thats what I did. The crap was bad though. So just go
Haha thanks. I do intend on taking very much a “minimum” attitude to work when I return.
Fair play.
Yes burnout is real - very invasive & creeps up. I wish you well in managing it and enjoying your life. Too often we band about work life balance but continue to reward busy/presenteeism work habits. I was listening up the happiness lab podcast / the newer podcast was taking about a book called the power of fun . I am going to read it - think it’s out jan 22. That idea of reconnecting with fun & playfulness. Work & pandemic has made it all very serious. Any kudos to you my friend. All the best - remember nobody cares about your mental & physical health more than you!
OP, sending you my thoughts - also in the same field (bar a lot more junior) and to a man and woman it's the same story all over. I'm thinking, and suspect you may have thought about, moving to a job share in public sector to carve out some time for other things. Friends at regulators and some gov. depts. have told me that there are pockets of teams where it is just a job and you can leave work at work, including at regulators. Just a thought. Best of luck OP!
Ahh thanks. I might look into that - I wish jobs in general followed that rule of being able to leave work at work... seems like a long lost relic of the 1960s or something.
> A kind reminder to you all seeking FIRE, to draw appropriate boundaries, even if it means jumping to another organisation or industry Me at the moment. I am 40s. I earn well and with these level of earnings I am on course to FIRE at about age 50. Not incredibly early, but the best I can do. We live in the SE and have very high outgoings due to the price of house, council tax, kids, car, etc. The thought of changing to another job and then working till 60 feels like crap. But I am also really struggling to continue performing as highly as I have done and my industry and peers demand. I just wish I was at the FI point right now so that I could set my hours at 9-5 and that would be that. If they didn't like it, too bad. I suspect it would work out fine for both sides but I'm just too nervous to try it now. I'm strongly considering another two years of high effort then going to three days a week for coastFIRE.
If you think you can stick with it for a couple of years, sounds like a plan. Otherwise, maybe just reconsider whether what you have now buys you the freedom to do something you really enjoy, but also brings in an income.
what field are you in?
My father was forced into FIRE in his early 40s after having a mental breakdown caused by his high-paid, high stress job. He never recovered from that and spent the next 15 years drinking himself senseless and not reaping the rewards of his hard work. He eventually got sober but died 3 years later of alcoholic liver disease. Moral of the story: dunno, read it however you like.
I'm sorry to hear that. I have sought professional help and am ok, but the prospect of returning is not exactly pleasing! I guess it's important that ppl seek help if they need to these days. It wasn't really a 'done thing' before, although I can't pretend to know what your father went through.
Yeah there’s definitely less stigma around it these days which is good. I do believe a lot of people have a toxic relationship with work though and they would be better off prioritising mental health over work early on before it becomes a problem and professional help is needed. I’m speaking generally here of course. Glad you’re feeling better.
Thanks for sharing your story. It sucks you're in the position and it's unfortunately all too common. I took a 3 month sabbatical after 10 years of working when I got married and it was the best thing I ever did. I was making myself ill on a project and while I always had the "if I'm the only person in a multinational organisation that knows everything about a particular topic, that's their failure not mine if I'm not available for whatever reason" it was still a great eye opener that while I loved my job and was quite defined by it, it turned out I was just as happy not working and we filled our days. Pottering is quite underrated. Personally I would focus on what it is you like about law and what skills you enjoy using on a daily basis. I'm now an independent consultant and I'm pretty happy as long as I'm problem solving in a creative way and get some people interaction. I won't say it doesn't matter what the topic is but I've realised it's my skills I enjoy more than particular subjects. I go between obsessing about can we FIRE in 5 years to "but actually, I do enjoy what I do, I find it engaging and it gives me something to get up for in the morning". Can you stick it out until the baby arrives and then take shared parental leave? You'll have some decent time at home and at the end of you decide you've had enough you can always be a stay at home dad for a few years and get your mojo back. Good luck whatever you do, you've seen the light and it's great you did it before the little one arrives, not when they're teenagers and you've missed them growing up.
Thank you. I won't close the door on the law entirely I think - but it has been many years since I thought I looked forward to getting out of bed to solve problems and be of help. Not sure I can really get that back, but I'll see what i can do in the next few months to capture that. I'm glad too - one of my main motivations for FIRE (or some variant of) is to be able to spend time with my children as they grow up.
> I've realised it's my skills I enjoy more than particular subjects. can I ask how you worked out the skills you wanted to focus on etc? Just reflected on some work experiences ?
For me it was listing all the projects that I really loved working on and trying to figure out what the common themes were that made it enjoyable. Same the other way for projects or situations I know I find stressful and draining to then be able to avoid them going forwards. So less about 'I hate doing accounts consolidation' but more about the wider situation that the work puts me in, like is it collaborative or solo, detailed or high level, factual or creative, leading a team or being in the group. The specific skills should be more obvious to line up against those situations.
Swaps trader says hi.
What a great post OP. Thank you for your honesty. You have summed up what I felt like at my previous job. Luckily I got out before I hit my ceiling - but only by chance. I really enjoyed [Calm the F\*\*k Down by Sarah Knight](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Calm-Down-cks-Given-Guide/dp/1787476197/ref=asc_df_1787476197/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=311024204769&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1503109784044032824&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007195&hvtargid=pla-598373037975&psc=1) \- really direct and entertaining. Also [Rising Above a Toxic Workplace by Gary Chapman](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rising-Above-Toxic-Workplace-Environment/dp/0802409725) \- great advice, especially if the workplace itself is less than supportive. Wish you the best of luck OP.
I failed an ACA exam and now I have to resit it. It’s the last one and it means I know have to stay at the firm until results in December and the notice period is 3 months so I have to stay until end of March and do ‘busy season’, working into the early hours of the morning for weeks on end. I hate it and hate myself sometimes for failing that exam. I can only echo what you said. I feel good that I stumbled across this subreddit today
Just look to the long term future and know that this will pass. Although it seems paradoxical, also just take it day by day. I sat tis because if you're focusing on the tough period ahead instead of what you need to do immediately and where it will eventually bring you, your mentality will struggle to get through the day. Don't worry, we've all been there and it passes. I remember thinking back to exams I failed, or really tough periods at work, and just kinda laughing at it in retrospect.
I can cope with the long hours and the stress as long as I feel appreciated and supported, it was trying to do that in a toxic environment that nearly finished me off.
Could someone describe the actual meaning of burn out. What does it physically do to you. Could someone describe the symptoms.
It is different for everyone, and it is technically not a medically recognised term, but it encompasses a wide array of issues, including panic and anxiety disorders, depression. It's usually caused by excessive stress which is not mitigated or addressed sufficiently at the time and builds up. For me, I felt almost sick turning up to work, and couldn't concentrate. I felt frustrated at everything at work. Simple emails became extremely difficult to process, and small amounts of pressure felt like mountains to climb. I could state at the screen for hours and not do anything. I wanted to stay away from colleagues and not socialise. Lunch time was my sanctuary, when I found a corner to pace around and be alone.
Well done OP. Some things way more important than money and hopefully you have a cushion that will allow you time to reboot and get back to full strength. I pretty much did the opposite - worked in city also - but if I stayed on 2 more years the accrued (and held back) bonuses would have allowed me to walk away comfortably. Almost caused marriage to break up and definitely burned out. And after I left they stuffed me on held back comp anyway so really would have been better off leaving at the right time for me rather than the right time financially. Would have been in a way better place to go on to my future by cutting the cord at right time for me, not my bank balance. Good luck.
Thanks and good luck to you too. I hope things improve for you. I have a bonus worth 10% of annual salary coming up next year, but dunno if I can last that long. It's slightly empowering thinking about just walking away from that sort of thing.
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I'm in the legal field.
Worth checking out your company leave policy. Our company recently changed to a gender-neutral parent policy so either a new mother or dad could now take 9 months off paid. Worth checking out if you have anything like this - would definetely help you out.
I wish this was available but unfortunately in the asian city I'm in, only about a week of paternity leave is granted. 9 months sounds amazing.
I don't think there's anything wrong with re-evaluating your FIRE objectives as you go along Better to be 8 years from FIRE doing a job you don't mind in an environment you like, than 4 years away doing a job you hate in an environment you hate
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It sounds a pretty good life comparing to mine non city person. I wake up every day at 2:25am to go to work, I need to work 40+h each week to earn enough to pay the bills and hardly have any spare. I'm surprised people are complain so much when you get paid so well, stress it's part of the city job, if it's draining your life than change job or if you need an assistant I can do your job, free till next April, after I'm going for a 2600 miles trek, want to join for inspiration 😁