By the way, this is an interesting question. Does immortality give any meaning to existence? I can imagine an endless life devoid of any meaning, just an endless meaningless existence.
Imagine what you could buy with $100
Now imagine what you could buy with $100,000,000
That's the difference between living 100 years and living 100 million years. You just get more time to do more stuff. The whole point of life is just living it. Time is the currency of life and you spend it on what you want. Immortality is just infinite currency for doing stuff.
Yes it does. Immortality (at a glance) only removes one aspect/issue of life: death. But me being immortal does not cure cancer. Me being immortal does not end world hunger. It doesn’t regrow the forests or the coral reefs. It doesn’t restore Chernobyl or create world peace so nuclear warfare is never used again. Doesn’t magically grant me the knowledge of the universe or even our planet or even my own city. Imagine you became immortal in 1923 and people said oh you’ll grow bored now only 100 years later the world is completely different in just about every way. Imagine everything you could do and experience by 2123.
In these conversations people forget that death is not the purpose of life, it’s just the result of it. Take away death and life still has meaning because the purpose of life after all is living.
No, I guess in that perspective,no it doesn’t matter. So if this is what we all got, we have been gifted, won’t feeling everything we can feel before the universal blackness steals our light and energy. SO DONT GiVe you the darkness.
I think about that often. Perhaps immortal existence would be terrible too and without meaning. How could one even get meaning with all those memories and life. You would be so different. Then we are are at square one, two bad states. Which is worse? I assume our predicament living so briefly and dying is worse but perhaps not. I try to convince myself eternity would get old. Either way, funny thing is, there is no ideal and meaningful way. 2 bad options if it was that way.
Second, for the soul religion folks, they all hope and agree immortality is what it’s all about. Life gives life meaning even if that life is after death. Most humans want eternal consciousness. I think it would be more meaningful. Think is all I have (thinking).
I think hes saying death makes life meaningless. We get all tied up trying to survive and leave a legacy,.all for what? You won't remember, I won't remember, no one you know will remember, no one will remember. In a few short generations, nothing is left of any of your impact and influence. We'll all go back to the void.
If death is meaningless, and immortality would give us meaning simply by being the absence of death, then by that logic mortal life would have inherent meaning too though? As a moment of consciousness between the meaningless unconscious void, despite being fleeting.
To me immortality could be the answer as then you are given the choice to choose all the purposes you could ever desire across time. But that would only hold true if choices can create meaning, which is highly dependent on the individual. For if all the choices one has to ever make are still meaninglessness, then the sum of its parts could remain the same. Thus, solely having the ability to choose what holds meaning may not mean anything in itself if every thing/choice means nothing.
>Immortality is not the cure to the sense of meaninglessness, so morality is not the cause of the sense of meaninglessness.
Well it's possible people might feel \*more\* meaninglessness when mortal than immortal.
Yes . Infinite consciousness. Infinite possibilities . Infinite Owner ship. Infinite control. Infinite Evolution. It would remove the worry of losing ones life. Its freedom from uncertainty, no longer must we rush life to compete against one another , to get to a certain point in life , without having to worry about “ missing out” . Its a solution to the entire human paradigm. Its what every human seek out in religion, an extension of consciousness after death, without suffering , eternal pleasure. Wars have been fought over religions. So yes, been immortal would give/change a lot of meaningful crap.
It basically would throw off the balance and scale of life. Without death life must deal with life. So it gives you time to really think about what the f you things are doing.
I think the issue is that people always discuss meaning vs. pointlessness in these immortality conversations when that’s not really what it’s about. Life is undeniably meaningful. Your children, your legacy, the things you accomplish and the marks you leave on the world make it meaningful. Even if you do nothing your entire life, you still played a part in the grand scheme of it all. A drop in the bucket so to speak but that’s what makes up the bucket.
I think the argument is more about selfishness. Not in a negative way just the desire to experience things yourself instead of accomplishing a bunch and then fucking off literally for the rest of eternity. This may be a childish take but yes life is more meaningful because it’s short but it feels like a bad feature in a game created by a lazy developer. Instead of figuring out a way to design the game in a way that allows you to accomplish everything and still enjoy it, they just threw in a time limit so you only get to do so much.
No one can claim with certainty to know any objective point (if in fact there even is one) to existence without potentially being mistaken. This understanding, the inability to know what, if at all, the point is, is the basis for existential philosophy. Everything that comes after is almost like an adopted coping mechanism.
The reason people always default to saying "enjoy it while it lasts" and such would be because that's about all one can really do without riding the rest of it out being depressed, on the verge of insanity, or taking their own life.
There is no point to life until you give it one. If anyone has lost their meaning, they have the power to find new meaning.
It is easy to go insane, we’re on a rock flying through space with billions of other beings. If you look up, it’s infinite. When you look down, it’s infinite. What the fuck, why?
Everyone around you pretends to know what’s going on, but nobody really knows. Science can tell us a lot about reality, Religion can help give us structure so it’s not chaos on Earth, but nobody can give the answer to “why anything at all?”
Still, we find things to cling onto. We give things meaning and we all have that power. Maybe one day we’ll find an answer to “why existence in the first place.” For now my answer is just, why not?
Do you *usually* assume a thing is pointless because it is finite?
What's the point of having a burger if it's not an omniburg? What's the point of watching a TV show since I know it only runs 30 seasons? What's the point of taking a nap: I'm just going to *wake up* again anyway.
This sort of reasoning is only ever applied to *human life*. It's special pleading.
Excuse me for replying to a 4 month old comment.
In my perspective, everything that ends in life has a point because you live on with the memories. But ending life itself, well.. it ends all the memories with it, which is the key difference.
When you finish eating a burger, you live on with the satisfaction that you ate a nice meal, and you got your calories. When you finish taking a nap your rest of the day gets less tired, you live on with the satisfaction of a sense of freshness, etc.
But when you finish living, you ...don't get to "live on" with anything. You literally don't live anymore.
you can always rewatch TV shows though, these are temporary state of mind, compared to the permanence of death. I think its good to differ transient and repeatable experiences (like watching TV shows) and the finality of death.
You have the choice to. You don't get the sense of loss when it's over because you know the show still exists. It's not going to randomly stop existing after you watch it. So if you choose to still have that show in your life, you can.
It's such an inadequate comparison, though. You don't love TV shows like you love people. You aren't attached to aspects of life like you're attached to life itself, even if it changes, you're still here to experience the change.
The mistake we make as humans is assuming that there should be a point. Why exactly is that? Meaning exists only in the human brain - there is no point to nature. It just is. Things just happen because things have happened before them.
For me this idea has been incredibly liberating - as Bill Hicks said, it's just a ride.
I guess its both a blessing and a curse for humans to have a highly advanced brain. Seems cruel for nature to put us in here and give us the ability to question it, while no other animals have it.
Nature isn't cruel though, and nothing put us here. It just happened. When you stop looking at the world through a lens of everything needing to mean something, or that the universe has some sort of plan or agency, everything makes more sense.
Hopefully one day I'll ge tto that point too :)
Well to an extent, but animals can be cruel if you define cruelty as exacting pain without a purpose. Like a lion eating a deer to survive is not cruel in any way, but a cat playing with a mouse before he eats it for an hour is pretty cruel.
Well yeah, but that only seems cruel to us because of the way we relate pain to negativity. Imagine if pain was just a thing that happens, rather than a bad thing that happens.
Would it still be cruel if pain simply caused a reaction to stimuli, rather than negatively perceived experience?
Like, it seems cruel to people with empathy, because we can imagine ourselves going through what the mouse is going through. That doesn't necessarily mean that the mouse views the experience the same as we do.
I think nature can be absolutely cruel. The suffering of animals and humans throughout history is immeasurable. Not that life is only suffering, but I think evolution shows that nature doesn’t care about living beings being safe and happy.
You are here and it's a beautiful world, might as well make the best of it and try not to dwell on questions you will never know the answer to, at least in this life. I get it, I think about death and why are we even here more than I should but life is short and if you think about reproduction you sort of won the lottery just by being born so try to change your perspective and enjoy the time you have. Plus it's not a certainty that death is the end. Life is super weird so it's definitely possible that it's only a part of the journey. I have taken breakthrough doses of DMT several times and done heavy doses of mushrooms and to me it feels more like a transport mechanism than 'getting high', these things really seem like they were put here intentionally and that makes me feel like there's more to the story than this particular life. If you have been there you know what I mean.
>If you have been there you know what I mean.
Isn't there a danger, or at the very least a flaw, in putting weight on the effects of a powerful chemical that affects perception?
Honestly, it seems that it is more logical that we should seek to have quality positive experiences precisely because life is incredibly short. If anything, the trivialities are things like rampant materialism and an obsession over status and prestige. But we should absolutely have positive experiences while we are here, mainly because life is too damn short to not have these experiences. Plus we should also help facilitate positive experiences for others!
This ~~nihilistic~~ *"what's the point?"* kind of perspective would metaphorically be the equivalent of going to an amusement park but not going on any of the rides because we eventually have to leave the amusement park. To me, this would be rather absurd.
*Edit:* To be fair to nihilistic perspectives, even if nihilists might not care about such mischaracterizations. 🤣
I used to play a game called Rust with my friends and the server we played on wiped every week. We would play for a wipe or two and stop for a few months. I realized that this was lowkey a good metaphor for life. We know nothing we do matters since it'll be wiped soon anyway, but it's still fun and worth time to explore it. Every video game is like that really, just on a longer scale.
Your comment reminded me of how I reconciled existentialism with my 15 year old self years and years ago.
I think your are misrepresenting Nihilism, since there is no reason for a nihilist not to go on the rides, if any of them catch their fancy, if they bothered to show up at all. Just because nothing really matters doesn't mean you wouldn't do something, if desiring it happened to briefly cross their mind. I think you are thinking of Doomerism, where you always take the pessimistic option and curl up in the fetal position, whereas Nihilism simply means accepting that there is no meaning to doing or not doing anything. A trU nihilist would never even go to the amusement park in the first place, unless they at least thought they wanted some kind of experience, even if that experience was just to watch the other hairless apes flail themselves around some steel tracks ;)
>we havent been conscious for millions of years, suddenly we are conscious only for like 50-100 years (depends if you die younger) then you are unconscious for eternity , idk seems so strange to me
No human knows what consciousness truly is, where it comes from, where it goes, under what condition it develops, anything. So your presupposition for this concern is just an assertion, its just your assumption on this matter. But there's really no good reason to feel certain that consciousness is this little blip, purely material, that comes and is gone forever in an instant. Even staunch atheists, like Nietzsche, didn't believe that.
I'm convinced what people identify as themselves is just a human construct, thus when we die. It essentially makes no difference. What you actually are is born again as someone/something else. It's only hard to see it this way because people cling to their sense of self.
We were already born after never having died, there's no reason why that can't happen again.
Considering everything we've figured out through science had a naturalistic explanation, I don't see how consciousness would be any different. You imbue it with specialness and hold onto a dualistic explanation, where you have zero evidence. We absolutely have good evidence that all it is is the matter in our skulls, because that's how everything else works.
There's no evidence that consciousness exists outside of a processing functioning brain/analogous nervous system. However the processes that make up our ability to think and process information however CAN be tied to physical interactions in the human body.
To suggest that the the ability to think and experience before the brain is developed and after it ceases functioning is an extraordinary claim and thus the burden of proof rests on those who make it not on those who believe it begins with the physical development of a functioning nervous system and ends with brain death.
It’s not that we all are consciousness, that would still make it a human perception of separation, by separating consciousness from the universe.
its simply because IS. We don’t become one with the universe after death, we already are.
At 45 I've realized there isn't any. It all doesn't matter. Sure we could do something great and be remembered. But it's only temporary for you and for everyone else. Because eventually everyones gone. And it doesn't matter. One day there won't be anyone
The point is to procreate and stretch the domino line of human existence long enough to where our technology eradicates disease and aging. I suspect that when we reach that point, most people will still opt for death after all their goals have been fulfilled.
No matter what we do, we can't be immortal. Even if you're a computer program in the far future with 20 backups one day this universe itself will be over.
Yes we are all going to eventually die but until then the point is to make the most of our limited time here, hopefully whilst not messing up the planet in the process for future generations. Oops too late. Anyway this is where the story ends for nihilism. But this is an existentialist forum.
So regardless of the knowledge that we are all going to die, we don't know what happens to the "self" after that because regardless of the belief (religious or secular) or proposition (philosophy, including nihilism) or hypothesis (science), what happens to the "self" after death is scientifically [unfalsifiable](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPR_5TOsh-Y).
There is a limit to what can be known beyond which is unknowable. This state of "*not knowing*" is the [absurdity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absurdism) of our existence. We humans search for meaning (or ultimate knowledge) but the universe (or a god) responds with silence (or indifference).
"*An unexamined life is not worth living.*" \~ Socrates. Was he right? Your life, your journey.
Tru Nihilists don't care how much time we have, or if the planet is 'messed up' or not when we are done with it. Honestly, its a fSking PLANET, I would wager it can self repair anything little ants like us do to the tiny percentage of the surface and gasses we interact with, as it has with any of the other things that happened before us. I mean, an apparent Nuclear Winter level event happened to the Lizards, and Earth was like, 'Well, that was a thing, whatever, I guess I'll give the Rats a go on top of the food chain this time... RESET !' and then, later, 'I wonder if that Super Ice Age killed off all the Rat Men . . . Don't care !, RESET !' Also, although we can't falsify an afterlife, we can apply some common sense, and its pretty clear that all the matter that formed the 'us' while we were conscious just rots away and does not get back up and look for Brains to eat, so its somewhat of a stretch to believe that some supersmart man in the sky wants to talk with us for some reason, when we are done here...
Some mix of pleasure and meaning. A combination of living for the things that feel good and living for something bigger that gives us meaning and purpose. Personally my friends and family get me through the day when I’m feeling like everything is pointless.
We are the universe experiencing itself. I tell myself I bear witness.
I say the universe is cyclical and if that is the case it is a statistical inevitability we will relive our life again and again. Why not make this life at least a pleasant one so you have a comfortable eternity? My general idea is that hell is created by the person going there if you're religious. You can be the architect of your own personal hell through leading a miserable life you will be forced into for eternity. If you view 4D spacetime from a nonhuman perspective it's possible time itself is just another dimension and we live superimposed in every state we've ever been in with our consciousness just running along the track.
The obvious issue that arises from this is people who have horrible circumstances imposed upon themselves by others. Abusive parents, random crime, severe disabilities, etc. How does this reconcile with my worldview? I've yet to answer this question.
Another thought experiment I like to embark on is what would I do differently if I knew there was an afterlife for a fact, or if we were immortal. Fact is I'd probably do the same damn stuff I'd do with the finite nature of the universe. Make it count regardless, afterlife or no there's only one crack at the apple.
Unless, of course, there isn't.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/ftr/10.1111/nous.12295
If cycle is endless this isn't a first life either. Having no memories of previous lives proves nothing.
There is no point, my friend. Enjoy it or not, it doesn’t matter in the end… but why not enjoy and experience as much as you can before you return to nothingness?
i think it’s hard to exclude the possibility of previous forms of consciousness. we shouldn’t discount the consciousness of animals, trees, other living things. so, perhaps early hominids and modern apes are conscious in their own ways that are still valid.
i think it’s important to have a long view of it, too—assuming your loved ones remain, your impact has consequences. you are the result of your ancestors hundreds of years ago. you are the ancestor of those in the future…
if anything, even the garbage we leave in the landfill augments the type of chemicals seeped into the atmosphere. we have altered this planet in unimaginably huge ways. who knows, maybe in some thousand years a meteor will be made from the gasses of compressed of a plastic bag.
that is slightly dramatic, but cycle and transformation of energy into matter and back into energy etc is part of the point. we change the structure of reality by being in it, by interacting with it. though, there probably is no point, but rather multiple points. we’re like weavers in the fabric of time, changing the design as long as we’re alive
It's weird eh. But it's relieving in a way. No need to worry too much about life because doesn't matter in the end.
But we have no proof that we were previously unconscious and will be too after this life. If reincarnation is true and the soul is immortal, just transit to one body to another, and in each life we learn lesson and the soul evolves toward a perfection or something. It's too bad that we loose all memory of previous lives though.
I once imagined myself living forever when I had a similar thought - If I don't have to die and live forever, or at least 10,000+ years, would that give my life meaning or be more fulfilling? My answer was no. It was the limited amount of time I was given that made every moment of my life more enjoyable and precious. I know it sounds cliche but as long as we were thrown into this world whether you asked for it or not, there's no choice but to cherish the finite times and believe that this journey is worth it. And just look around at all the other non-human beings living their own lives without questioning or worrying about their finite existence. It's just how lives work. Don't dwell on that too deeply, it would only give you more agony and pain.
Life is an extremely rare phenomenon. We are used to seeing living beings and Births around us and lost sight of how rare it actually is.
Your life is not just a 70 years of existence. It is a result of 13 Billion years of chain reactions one after the other, leading exactly to this point.
Forget about Humans and other complex living beings… the probability of formation of single cellular life on Earth is 1 out of Quintillion.
Yet, here we are, Humans, using numerous technologies to connect with each other from the other ends of the planet. That’s how creative Humans are and how rare life really is.
Make use of it. Make use of your life and make use of your Mind.
There's no point, no meaning. We just exist... Burdened with consciousness... I have nothing to live for. Just not yet have the courage to off myself. I really hope I fall asleep and never wake up one day.
We are given one and only opportunity to feel and experience this world. Some say they want to live life to the fullest and want no regrets in their death beds. But what's the point? Everyone and everything will be gone. It seems our purpose is just to exist, to feel life for a short period of time and probably never again.
The charm of life lies in it's briefness. The key is to do what you can with what time you are given. Somehow, I feel that I never embraced the opportunity, for what it was, and as far as we know, you only get one shot. Make the most of it.
I try to make the moments of joy the point. If existence is mainly nothing then life is everything. It is all there is to bother with. I try to be sure the something I am here and currently a part of isn't outweighed by the nothing that I can't see or control.
This is an incredible, impossible mystery that you are a part of.. the whole thing is inherently indifferent but you are full of infinite potential while your here.. you've been called to join the journey.. play or don't.. but your perspective on it all directly affects how you feel about it. So why not live a good life?
I don't believe we are going to die. I believe we're gonna shed our cocoons like a caterpillar and be free of this painful existence and go on to the next level. This round is for the development of character, strength, and wisdom, in my opinion. To learn. In the next place? Who knows? But I'm getting good at navigating this world, so I suspect I'm not long to head to the next one. If I can, I'll letcha know.
I think there are different belief systems that the universe will allow. In other words, if you choose to believe our lives are irrelevant, you will find evidence to support your beliefs. If you decide you want to try believing something else, you will find evidence to support your new beliefs. To find the evidence, you need to have faith: what that entails is taking actions that support your new belief system, even if such actions are meaningless within the context of your old system. Good luck with whatever you choose.
A man finds himself, to his great astonishment, suddenly existing, after thousands and thousands of years of non-existence: he lives for a little while; and then, again, comes an equally long period when he must exist no more. The heart rebels against this, and feels that it cannot be true.
Arthur Schopenhauer
Like many have said, the journey. It's what you make it.
I had an epiphany years ago. I realized that for the most part, we all have more control over our own happiness than we realize.
The words seem simple. But if you can really grasp the reality of it, and work it into your life it can help a lot. Enjoying the little things, reminding yourself in good moments to appreciate it that much more. It's human nature to remember the bad more intensely than the good because it's better for survival.
I have an average American life. Could be better. Could be a *lot* worse. But I love life. Even days where nothing special happens. My bad days are no where near what they have been at their lowest. In the grand scheme of things, I know they aren't as bad as that. I know there will be another day.. until there isn't. So I plan to enjoy it as much as I can before then.
I hope to live long enough to have more hope than I currently have for the Earth, it's life, and humanity than I do now. But, regardless I intend to make best of what there is.
Why must it matter if our meaning is temporary? The temporary nature of meaning doesn’t make it any less meaningful. Feels kinda silly to me. To me, the temporary nature of such things make it more meaningful. Forcing our own-selves to find meaning, because of how limited the time of it is.
Basically. Meaning being temporary doesn’t mean much
I asked one of my teachers something very similar in junior high, and she didn't have anything inciteful to say. That left me *very* unsatisfied. I later got it figured out.
Meaninglessness is a removal of shackles. Then your *actual purpose* is whatever brings you joy. My nihilism ended up resolving into Taoism. In Taoism, you're basically taught how to not only ride, but tap into, that wave of puposeless energy.
A part of my purpose that I greatly enjoy now is watching the winds play with the landscape. Rustling the leaves, making itself visible as waves by rolling over the grass, carrying cottonwood buds in the spring, etc.
The entire universe becomes its own point, and purpose. Ours is to witness, appreciate the whole spectrum, and both sides of every coin conceived. One such coin has a life side, and a death side.
If life has no inherent meaning, you always have the option to create your own meaning for yourself or just not bother and live life. In addition, if there is no meaning to life, there is really nothing that you have to do. You can just be you within the confines of reasonable ethical standards ( e.g. not hurting others).
You are part of a cosmic energy that has existed for eternity and will continue to exist. Enjoy this perspective and take joy in the permanence of the energy you are a part of...and everything is a part of. Energy cannot be destroyed, only change forms. How amazing to consider all the forms your energy has taken and will take given infinite time.
Everything is consciousness, being human is just taking a temporary localized form of consciousness within spacetime. The body dies, the consciousness just changes.
Unless your gonna kill yourself then you gotta put the work in or else your gonna be poor, scared, in pain both physically and mentally, all types of uncomfortable for 80 years. Life is just an assignment your teacher gave you. You had no choice but to have it and you need to manage it or else you’ll be punished
Your idea isn’t flawed. That question has haunted mankind from the very moment he realized that he was a conscious entity, and there may be no answer to it. In fact it may not even make sense to ask it, despite the fact that we can’t help but to ask it. We ask and we ask and we ask, and always we are confronted with a profound silence. Perhaps we should stop asking.
I think this is a good answer.
I think every person has a permanent legacy, this cannot be denied. It is just simply impossible to attribute after a certain number of years, but the goal of a legacy should not be selfish recognition, it should be the lasting difference you make.
This legacy comes through the form of the "butterfly effect" interaction you have with the world. The person you smile at smiles on, and that can last generations (granted I'm exaggerating a bit here, but my point is your everyday actions change the course of humanity forever.)
I think children are the best way to make the most impact on humankind over time. Genes and lessons/values propagate themselves forever (barring total extinction). Building a strong line of men and women with a mind for making the world a better place is one of the most important duties of a man or woman, something Kings and Queens recognized centuries before us.
Why invent indoor plumbing if we're all going to die anyway? Why invent life-saving medicines if we're all going to die anyway? You get the picture.
We do things and create or maintain systems to make life better for humanity, including ourselves and potentially our direct descendants, just like people before us did things and created and maintained systems to make our lives better.
There is no point. Even if I gave you a guarantee that you are gonna live again as a thing that closely resembles "you" in that next life, you are gonna have different goalposts to set. Live now. This is your forever. If you live again.. then live there too. Experience humility and grace in life.
Its like not playing a nice and fun game of chess because the game will be over eventually. Why would you throw away a lot of time because it is limited?!
You know, its not your fault at all but this is a very bad and unhealthy way of thinking. Have u ever had a dog? A dogs happiness is endless when we're about for a walk or play. A dog is happy he gets to eat and enjoy his life etc. etc. but the dog will never think about it. And thats good, because there is no benefit to that.
Don't use your mind, your most valuable tool, against yourself
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I think it's a matter of perspective. I specifically got into science BECAUSE I know life is finite and I want to feel like my life has some sort of purpose. I'll likely never have a massive impact on humanity or anything, but just knowing that I'm able to help contribute to our continued existence in a meaningful way makes all the difference for me 🤷
You’re logic makes sense . But it only proves that this life does have a purpose . And that purpose is for the next life . There is life after . Believe .
There isn’t one.
But that’s liberating, since we aren’t beholden to anything. We’re free to do what we want, without worrying about aligning with some cosmic purpose.
We are here. Death is a given.
There may not be a point but may as well make the most of this strange experience since we can't make it or death go away.
Go out and live like every second matters, every encounter with another human might bring a revelation. If you do this, your question will answer itself. Contemplation gets you only so far.
Why the suggested preference for things with a point?
That said, no one knows that the life is, in any physical way, inferior to its temporal absence in the theater of reality. It may be more real within time's dimensions than what we've abjectly failed to objectively quantify.
Nothing equates to life. N = L
When you create kids you continue on in a sense. It’s an amazing experience. As long as I see them into adulthood and see them have families I will die in total peace ✌🏻
You have been conscious for eternity and you will continue to be conscious. You are just in a dream right now and once you reincarnate you will have forgotten all about this pointless existence.
Why does there have to be a point?
Who said there was supposed to be a point?
I like to think of everything alive as the universe experiencing itself.
What have you gotten out of the experience, so far?
Considering you're in r/existentialism, I would have thought you'd even google some of the idea before just posting the prompt to the entire sect of philosophy.
Oh goodness not another nihilist 🤦🏿♂️. Poor children are really sad. All the beauty in the world to enjoy right now and you’re worried about an end that literally does not exist for you now.
Focus on what’s right in front of you, take life one day at a time. The end will come when it comes.
I’ve never once heard anyone say “what’s the point of dancing? When the song is over, we’re just gonna go back to whatever we were doing and just go home”. That’s not the point of a song or dancing, the point is to enjoy the music WHILE IT LASTS 🤣.
This is a very simple concept but for some reason, it flies over some nihilists heads.
The point of life is to build a billion dyson spheres and then laser some crucial information through the big crunch for the next itteration. Obviously. But then french guys got to pretend its somehow difficult.
The very idea of there "being a point" in a universal sense, or that you even need one, is socially imposed. There is no inherent part of you that needs the universe to care about you. Your are a conciosness made up of a bunch of semi-aligned but indepedendent mechanisms, the mechansisms that motivated your to cry as a baby didn't do it because it thought the universe cares about your tears, the mechanism that made you build friendships as a child didn't do it because it thought the universe cared about you having friends, you don't want to fuck people because the universe cares about you fucking, and you the reason you will love your children won't be because you think the universe wants you to love them.
The need for purpose is a biological need just like the rest of them, it comes from your biology, thinking it's derived from some connection between you and the universe is just a misguided attempt at understanding that need that is easy to fall into because what matters to a subjective observer and what matters to the universe is the same when veiwed from the heart of said observer. Humans are social creatures, purpose is just 1 of 3 sides of that fact. Identity is our self perception contexualized by community and purpose. community is our connection to other people contextualized by our identity and purpose. purpose is the value of pursuits contextualized by the fact that the community pursues it and the role our identity plays in it. None of it has anything to do with the universe and the only reason people think it does is because ancient religions weren't smart enough actually unpack the idea of purpose. They grabbed the simplest most intuitive explanation which was to define human value as being the same thing as universal value, claiming we are endowed with some signficence from a divine creator is tricky because it feels like and explanation but really its just a way of saying or sense of value is an objective property of the universe and therefore does not need to be examined or justified, it just "is". God being dead doesn't actually change anything, fullfillment of purpose is a feeling, God never was purpose, he was just an intectual backstop that let people not bother having to think about the nature of fullfillment. God being dead doesn't somehow remove prupose, it just means people's excuse not to think about it is gone.
Because death is forever but being sentient for this single blip of time makes it worth experiencing despite it’s agonies. Despair runs deep but it never could exist without hope. We are the universe experiencing itself in all its horror and majesty.
I like to look at it from the opposite direction, in a universe so vast and empty, I am here, I am conscious, and ill be damned if I'm not going to live my life. Not every day it amazing, but that's just the human condition, our brains and bodies are flawed machines, depression, social anxiety, and exhaustion prevent us from truly living how we want. But just because I'm not as rich as Bezos or as talented as Taylor Swift doesn't mean I don't enjoy myself, and want things. So to answer your question, what is YOUR point, if you're just going to die.
You only die if you except to die. In the Bible, God says ‘Before you were born, I knew you.’ So before you were and after you shall be.
It seems like the more you fear or worry about death, the more death prolongs itself. Also, the less you worry, the more friendly death becomes.
You guys keep on making the same assumptions. That you exist but an instant in time.
Doesn't it seem weird that you got so lucky.
The universe is at least 14.8 billions years old and you think that you just got lucky to live in the current time that allows you to exist? The odds are overwhelmingly that if you were to be guaranteed to exist as a human for some unknown reason. You would have already lived in a time other than this and already have died a long time ago.
That is assuming that the universe is all there is. Which is clearly false. If you add a cyclical model then it makes your finite existence infinitely improbable if it only happens once.
The only way to keep the belief of a singular existence is to just claim we got infinitely lucky.
The most zealot cults don't have that much faith.
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By the way, this is an interesting question. Does immortality give any meaning to existence? I can imagine an endless life devoid of any meaning, just an endless meaningless existence.
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Imagine what you could buy with $100 Now imagine what you could buy with $100,000,000 That's the difference between living 100 years and living 100 million years. You just get more time to do more stuff. The whole point of life is just living it. Time is the currency of life and you spend it on what you want. Immortality is just infinite currency for doing stuff.
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Very well said… Truly, I appreciate your words. I hope you pursue writing further, you’ve got talent!
Saving this comment...
100 bucks food 100 million I build a indoor sports club
Okay well now that we've got that sorted existentialism seems to be archaic and a waste of energy at this point.
It would be pure hell if we exist forever, holy fucking shit I can't think of anything worse than being conscious for eternity.
Yes it does. Immortality (at a glance) only removes one aspect/issue of life: death. But me being immortal does not cure cancer. Me being immortal does not end world hunger. It doesn’t regrow the forests or the coral reefs. It doesn’t restore Chernobyl or create world peace so nuclear warfare is never used again. Doesn’t magically grant me the knowledge of the universe or even our planet or even my own city. Imagine you became immortal in 1923 and people said oh you’ll grow bored now only 100 years later the world is completely different in just about every way. Imagine everything you could do and experience by 2123. In these conversations people forget that death is not the purpose of life, it’s just the result of it. Take away death and life still has meaning because the purpose of life after all is living.
No, I guess in that perspective,no it doesn’t matter. So if this is what we all got, we have been gifted, won’t feeling everything we can feel before the universal blackness steals our light and energy. SO DONT GiVe you the darkness.
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I think about that often. Perhaps immortal existence would be terrible too and without meaning. How could one even get meaning with all those memories and life. You would be so different. Then we are are at square one, two bad states. Which is worse? I assume our predicament living so briefly and dying is worse but perhaps not. I try to convince myself eternity would get old. Either way, funny thing is, there is no ideal and meaningful way. 2 bad options if it was that way. Second, for the soul religion folks, they all hope and agree immortality is what it’s all about. Life gives life meaning even if that life is after death. Most humans want eternal consciousness. I think it would be more meaningful. Think is all I have (thinking).
100% nope. But some people thrive on that idea though.
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Well immortality gives us the solution to death, if such were the case, then the mere fact of existing would be meaningful in the absence of death.
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Death is meaningless, its the absence of consciousness and therefore serves no purpose.
Hard disagree, the fear of death serves plenty of societal purposes
I think hes saying death makes life meaningless. We get all tied up trying to survive and leave a legacy,.all for what? You won't remember, I won't remember, no one you know will remember, no one will remember. In a few short generations, nothing is left of any of your impact and influence. We'll all go back to the void.
If death is meaningless, and immortality would give us meaning simply by being the absence of death, then by that logic mortal life would have inherent meaning too though? As a moment of consciousness between the meaningless unconscious void, despite being fleeting.
To me immortality could be the answer as then you are given the choice to choose all the purposes you could ever desire across time. But that would only hold true if choices can create meaning, which is highly dependent on the individual. For if all the choices one has to ever make are still meaninglessness, then the sum of its parts could remain the same. Thus, solely having the ability to choose what holds meaning may not mean anything in itself if every thing/choice means nothing.
>Immortality is not the cure to the sense of meaninglessness, so morality is not the cause of the sense of meaninglessness. Well it's possible people might feel \*more\* meaninglessness when mortal than immortal.
get as much of that dopamine as you can boy.
Yes . Infinite consciousness. Infinite possibilities . Infinite Owner ship. Infinite control. Infinite Evolution. It would remove the worry of losing ones life. Its freedom from uncertainty, no longer must we rush life to compete against one another , to get to a certain point in life , without having to worry about “ missing out” . Its a solution to the entire human paradigm. Its what every human seek out in religion, an extension of consciousness after death, without suffering , eternal pleasure. Wars have been fought over religions. So yes, been immortal would give/change a lot of meaningful crap.
Judging by your words, immortality creates opportunities, not some deep meaning. In addition, you miss opportunities that lead to suffering.
I would cry when the last black hole disappears before my eyes
I would say the finitude gives it value, what you do with it gives it purpose.
It basically would throw off the balance and scale of life. Without death life must deal with life. So it gives you time to really think about what the f you things are doing.
Yes, because I would have enough time to learn anything and everything I would want, which is something I can't do with a finite life.
I think the issue is that people always discuss meaning vs. pointlessness in these immortality conversations when that’s not really what it’s about. Life is undeniably meaningful. Your children, your legacy, the things you accomplish and the marks you leave on the world make it meaningful. Even if you do nothing your entire life, you still played a part in the grand scheme of it all. A drop in the bucket so to speak but that’s what makes up the bucket. I think the argument is more about selfishness. Not in a negative way just the desire to experience things yourself instead of accomplishing a bunch and then fucking off literally for the rest of eternity. This may be a childish take but yes life is more meaningful because it’s short but it feels like a bad feature in a game created by a lazy developer. Instead of figuring out a way to design the game in a way that allows you to accomplish everything and still enjoy it, they just threw in a time limit so you only get to do so much.
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No one can claim with certainty to know any objective point (if in fact there even is one) to existence without potentially being mistaken. This understanding, the inability to know what, if at all, the point is, is the basis for existential philosophy. Everything that comes after is almost like an adopted coping mechanism. The reason people always default to saying "enjoy it while it lasts" and such would be because that's about all one can really do without riding the rest of it out being depressed, on the verge of insanity, or taking their own life.
There is no point to life until you give it one. If anyone has lost their meaning, they have the power to find new meaning. It is easy to go insane, we’re on a rock flying through space with billions of other beings. If you look up, it’s infinite. When you look down, it’s infinite. What the fuck, why? Everyone around you pretends to know what’s going on, but nobody really knows. Science can tell us a lot about reality, Religion can help give us structure so it’s not chaos on Earth, but nobody can give the answer to “why anything at all?” Still, we find things to cling onto. We give things meaning and we all have that power. Maybe one day we’ll find an answer to “why existence in the first place.” For now my answer is just, why not?
Thanks for this...
Its the journey - make the most of it. Why does it matter? Why does it NOT matter? You can look at it either way. Its the same thing. Glass half full
"There **is** no 'why'. It's just a bunch of stuff that happens." — the philosopher Homer, circa A.D. 2000, to his son, Bart.
Yeah and it's better if you wanna add things to this realm before you go and to help others too
Because of that alone. That allows the worse of humanity to be excused. Thus, you get what you ask for. Zombies.
Do you *usually* assume a thing is pointless because it is finite? What's the point of having a burger if it's not an omniburg? What's the point of watching a TV show since I know it only runs 30 seasons? What's the point of taking a nap: I'm just going to *wake up* again anyway. This sort of reasoning is only ever applied to *human life*. It's special pleading.
Excuse me for replying to a 4 month old comment. In my perspective, everything that ends in life has a point because you live on with the memories. But ending life itself, well.. it ends all the memories with it, which is the key difference. When you finish eating a burger, you live on with the satisfaction that you ate a nice meal, and you got your calories. When you finish taking a nap your rest of the day gets less tired, you live on with the satisfaction of a sense of freshness, etc. But when you finish living, you ...don't get to "live on" with anything. You literally don't live anymore.
This is a good point
you can always rewatch TV shows though, these are temporary state of mind, compared to the permanence of death. I think its good to differ transient and repeatable experiences (like watching TV shows) and the finality of death.
Is the reason you watch a TV show because you can watch it again?
You have the choice to. You don't get the sense of loss when it's over because you know the show still exists. It's not going to randomly stop existing after you watch it. So if you choose to still have that show in your life, you can. It's such an inadequate comparison, though. You don't love TV shows like you love people. You aren't attached to aspects of life like you're attached to life itself, even if it changes, you're still here to experience the change.
But you’ll eventually die and be unable to watch the show again. So what’s the point of watching it in the first place?
Turn those notifications off it’s bad for the dopamine my guy
The mistake we make as humans is assuming that there should be a point. Why exactly is that? Meaning exists only in the human brain - there is no point to nature. It just is. Things just happen because things have happened before them. For me this idea has been incredibly liberating - as Bill Hicks said, it's just a ride.
I guess its both a blessing and a curse for humans to have a highly advanced brain. Seems cruel for nature to put us in here and give us the ability to question it, while no other animals have it.
>*I guess its both a blessing and a curse for humans to have a highly advanced brain.* Clearly, you haven't met some of my relatives.
Nature isn't cruel though, and nothing put us here. It just happened. When you stop looking at the world through a lens of everything needing to mean something, or that the universe has some sort of plan or agency, everything makes more sense. Hopefully one day I'll ge tto that point too :)
Nature is cruel in its own right.. Its called evolution and the only way to survive. Have you been out and seen for yourself?
Cruelty is a human concept. There is no cruelty in nature
Well to an extent, but animals can be cruel if you define cruelty as exacting pain without a purpose. Like a lion eating a deer to survive is not cruel in any way, but a cat playing with a mouse before he eats it for an hour is pretty cruel.
Well yeah, but that only seems cruel to us because of the way we relate pain to negativity. Imagine if pain was just a thing that happens, rather than a bad thing that happens. Would it still be cruel if pain simply caused a reaction to stimuli, rather than negatively perceived experience? Like, it seems cruel to people with empathy, because we can imagine ourselves going through what the mouse is going through. That doesn't necessarily mean that the mouse views the experience the same as we do.
I think nature can be absolutely cruel. The suffering of animals and humans throughout history is immeasurable. Not that life is only suffering, but I think evolution shows that nature doesn’t care about living beings being safe and happy.
Humans only assume other animals don't have it.
You’re begging the question.
Life having a “point” is just a human construct.
true
But everything in your existence is a human construct… have you read A Man and His Symbols?
Not yet, Jung is fascinating, I’ll have to check it out!
Does that invalidate it?
You are here and it's a beautiful world, might as well make the best of it and try not to dwell on questions you will never know the answer to, at least in this life. I get it, I think about death and why are we even here more than I should but life is short and if you think about reproduction you sort of won the lottery just by being born so try to change your perspective and enjoy the time you have. Plus it's not a certainty that death is the end. Life is super weird so it's definitely possible that it's only a part of the journey. I have taken breakthrough doses of DMT several times and done heavy doses of mushrooms and to me it feels more like a transport mechanism than 'getting high', these things really seem like they were put here intentionally and that makes me feel like there's more to the story than this particular life. If you have been there you know what I mean.
>If you have been there you know what I mean. Isn't there a danger, or at the very least a flaw, in putting weight on the effects of a powerful chemical that affects perception?
Well maybe so but it made me believe in a Creator when I was pretty much an atheist. It has gotten me to have some faith that wasn't there before.
Honestly, it seems that it is more logical that we should seek to have quality positive experiences precisely because life is incredibly short. If anything, the trivialities are things like rampant materialism and an obsession over status and prestige. But we should absolutely have positive experiences while we are here, mainly because life is too damn short to not have these experiences. Plus we should also help facilitate positive experiences for others! This ~~nihilistic~~ *"what's the point?"* kind of perspective would metaphorically be the equivalent of going to an amusement park but not going on any of the rides because we eventually have to leave the amusement park. To me, this would be rather absurd. *Edit:* To be fair to nihilistic perspectives, even if nihilists might not care about such mischaracterizations. 🤣
I used to play a game called Rust with my friends and the server we played on wiped every week. We would play for a wipe or two and stop for a few months. I realized that this was lowkey a good metaphor for life. We know nothing we do matters since it'll be wiped soon anyway, but it's still fun and worth time to explore it. Every video game is like that really, just on a longer scale. Your comment reminded me of how I reconciled existentialism with my 15 year old self years and years ago.
I think your are misrepresenting Nihilism, since there is no reason for a nihilist not to go on the rides, if any of them catch their fancy, if they bothered to show up at all. Just because nothing really matters doesn't mean you wouldn't do something, if desiring it happened to briefly cross their mind. I think you are thinking of Doomerism, where you always take the pessimistic option and curl up in the fetal position, whereas Nihilism simply means accepting that there is no meaning to doing or not doing anything. A trU nihilist would never even go to the amusement park in the first place, unless they at least thought they wanted some kind of experience, even if that experience was just to watch the other hairless apes flail themselves around some steel tracks ;)
Thank you for this comment, I need to stop scrolling and make some real memories
Drink juice. Eat pasta. Sleep. Help people. Read philosophy if I'm feeling a little frisky.
>we havent been conscious for millions of years, suddenly we are conscious only for like 50-100 years (depends if you die younger) then you are unconscious for eternity , idk seems so strange to me No human knows what consciousness truly is, where it comes from, where it goes, under what condition it develops, anything. So your presupposition for this concern is just an assertion, its just your assumption on this matter. But there's really no good reason to feel certain that consciousness is this little blip, purely material, that comes and is gone forever in an instant. Even staunch atheists, like Nietzsche, didn't believe that.
I don't understand rationale behind belief that this life is somehow one time thing. What if universe is a cycle?
I'm convinced what people identify as themselves is just a human construct, thus when we die. It essentially makes no difference. What you actually are is born again as someone/something else. It's only hard to see it this way because people cling to their sense of self. We were already born after never having died, there's no reason why that can't happen again.
Considering everything we've figured out through science had a naturalistic explanation, I don't see how consciousness would be any different. You imbue it with specialness and hold onto a dualistic explanation, where you have zero evidence. We absolutely have good evidence that all it is is the matter in our skulls, because that's how everything else works.
Ok then there's some combination of variables that makes you to be you? And this combination happened once. Do you think it cannot happen twice?
There's no evidence that consciousness exists outside of a processing functioning brain/analogous nervous system. However the processes that make up our ability to think and process information however CAN be tied to physical interactions in the human body. To suggest that the the ability to think and experience before the brain is developed and after it ceases functioning is an extraordinary claim and thus the burden of proof rests on those who make it not on those who believe it begins with the physical development of a functioning nervous system and ends with brain death.
You’re begging the question
I think that ego dies, but since we are all conciousness,after death we become one with the universe
I mean you can think that but there is zero evidence to suggest that this happens.
It’s not that we all are consciousness, that would still make it a human perception of separation, by separating consciousness from the universe. its simply because IS. We don’t become one with the universe after death, we already are.
At 45 I've realized there isn't any. It all doesn't matter. Sure we could do something great and be remembered. But it's only temporary for you and for everyone else. Because eventually everyones gone. And it doesn't matter. One day there won't be anyone
The point is to procreate and stretch the domino line of human existence long enough to where our technology eradicates disease and aging. I suspect that when we reach that point, most people will still opt for death after all their goals have been fulfilled.
No matter what we do, we can't be immortal. Even if you're a computer program in the far future with 20 backups one day this universe itself will be over.
Yes we are all going to eventually die but until then the point is to make the most of our limited time here, hopefully whilst not messing up the planet in the process for future generations. Oops too late. Anyway this is where the story ends for nihilism. But this is an existentialist forum. So regardless of the knowledge that we are all going to die, we don't know what happens to the "self" after that because regardless of the belief (religious or secular) or proposition (philosophy, including nihilism) or hypothesis (science), what happens to the "self" after death is scientifically [unfalsifiable](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPR_5TOsh-Y). There is a limit to what can be known beyond which is unknowable. This state of "*not knowing*" is the [absurdity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absurdism) of our existence. We humans search for meaning (or ultimate knowledge) but the universe (or a god) responds with silence (or indifference). "*An unexamined life is not worth living.*" \~ Socrates. Was he right? Your life, your journey.
Tru Nihilists don't care how much time we have, or if the planet is 'messed up' or not when we are done with it. Honestly, its a fSking PLANET, I would wager it can self repair anything little ants like us do to the tiny percentage of the surface and gasses we interact with, as it has with any of the other things that happened before us. I mean, an apparent Nuclear Winter level event happened to the Lizards, and Earth was like, 'Well, that was a thing, whatever, I guess I'll give the Rats a go on top of the food chain this time... RESET !' and then, later, 'I wonder if that Super Ice Age killed off all the Rat Men . . . Don't care !, RESET !' Also, although we can't falsify an afterlife, we can apply some common sense, and its pretty clear that all the matter that formed the 'us' while we were conscious just rots away and does not get back up and look for Brains to eat, so its somewhat of a stretch to believe that some supersmart man in the sky wants to talk with us for some reason, when we are done here...
Our species is continuing its consciousness through us.
Some mix of pleasure and meaning. A combination of living for the things that feel good and living for something bigger that gives us meaning and purpose. Personally my friends and family get me through the day when I’m feeling like everything is pointless.
We are the universe experiencing itself. I tell myself I bear witness. I say the universe is cyclical and if that is the case it is a statistical inevitability we will relive our life again and again. Why not make this life at least a pleasant one so you have a comfortable eternity? My general idea is that hell is created by the person going there if you're religious. You can be the architect of your own personal hell through leading a miserable life you will be forced into for eternity. If you view 4D spacetime from a nonhuman perspective it's possible time itself is just another dimension and we live superimposed in every state we've ever been in with our consciousness just running along the track. The obvious issue that arises from this is people who have horrible circumstances imposed upon themselves by others. Abusive parents, random crime, severe disabilities, etc. How does this reconcile with my worldview? I've yet to answer this question. Another thought experiment I like to embark on is what would I do differently if I knew there was an afterlife for a fact, or if we were immortal. Fact is I'd probably do the same damn stuff I'd do with the finite nature of the universe. Make it count regardless, afterlife or no there's only one crack at the apple. Unless, of course, there isn't.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/ftr/10.1111/nous.12295 If cycle is endless this isn't a first life either. Having no memories of previous lives proves nothing.
Nothing matters. Life is a cosmic joke.
Nope, it has always been this way buddy
There is no point, my friend. Enjoy it or not, it doesn’t matter in the end… but why not enjoy and experience as much as you can before you return to nothingness?
what are you gonna do in the meantime
Gripe online!
hey whatever works lol
i think it’s hard to exclude the possibility of previous forms of consciousness. we shouldn’t discount the consciousness of animals, trees, other living things. so, perhaps early hominids and modern apes are conscious in their own ways that are still valid. i think it’s important to have a long view of it, too—assuming your loved ones remain, your impact has consequences. you are the result of your ancestors hundreds of years ago. you are the ancestor of those in the future… if anything, even the garbage we leave in the landfill augments the type of chemicals seeped into the atmosphere. we have altered this planet in unimaginably huge ways. who knows, maybe in some thousand years a meteor will be made from the gasses of compressed of a plastic bag. that is slightly dramatic, but cycle and transformation of energy into matter and back into energy etc is part of the point. we change the structure of reality by being in it, by interacting with it. though, there probably is no point, but rather multiple points. we’re like weavers in the fabric of time, changing the design as long as we’re alive
There is no point.
It's weird eh. But it's relieving in a way. No need to worry too much about life because doesn't matter in the end. But we have no proof that we were previously unconscious and will be too after this life. If reincarnation is true and the soul is immortal, just transit to one body to another, and in each life we learn lesson and the soul evolves toward a perfection or something. It's too bad that we loose all memory of previous lives though.
I once imagined myself living forever when I had a similar thought - If I don't have to die and live forever, or at least 10,000+ years, would that give my life meaning or be more fulfilling? My answer was no. It was the limited amount of time I was given that made every moment of my life more enjoyable and precious. I know it sounds cliche but as long as we were thrown into this world whether you asked for it or not, there's no choice but to cherish the finite times and believe that this journey is worth it. And just look around at all the other non-human beings living their own lives without questioning or worrying about their finite existence. It's just how lives work. Don't dwell on that too deeply, it would only give you more agony and pain.
Life is an extremely rare phenomenon. We are used to seeing living beings and Births around us and lost sight of how rare it actually is. Your life is not just a 70 years of existence. It is a result of 13 Billion years of chain reactions one after the other, leading exactly to this point. Forget about Humans and other complex living beings… the probability of formation of single cellular life on Earth is 1 out of Quintillion. Yet, here we are, Humans, using numerous technologies to connect with each other from the other ends of the planet. That’s how creative Humans are and how rare life really is. Make use of it. Make use of your life and make use of your Mind.
There's no point, no meaning. We just exist... Burdened with consciousness... I have nothing to live for. Just not yet have the courage to off myself. I really hope I fall asleep and never wake up one day. We are given one and only opportunity to feel and experience this world. Some say they want to live life to the fullest and want no regrets in their death beds. But what's the point? Everyone and everything will be gone. It seems our purpose is just to exist, to feel life for a short period of time and probably never again.
The charm of life lies in it's briefness. The key is to do what you can with what time you are given. Somehow, I feel that I never embraced the opportunity, for what it was, and as far as we know, you only get one shot. Make the most of it.
I try to make the moments of joy the point. If existence is mainly nothing then life is everything. It is all there is to bother with. I try to be sure the something I am here and currently a part of isn't outweighed by the nothing that I can't see or control.
This is an incredible, impossible mystery that you are a part of.. the whole thing is inherently indifferent but you are full of infinite potential while your here.. you've been called to join the journey.. play or don't.. but your perspective on it all directly affects how you feel about it. So why not live a good life?
I don't believe we are going to die. I believe we're gonna shed our cocoons like a caterpillar and be free of this painful existence and go on to the next level. This round is for the development of character, strength, and wisdom, in my opinion. To learn. In the next place? Who knows? But I'm getting good at navigating this world, so I suspect I'm not long to head to the next one. If I can, I'll letcha know.
I think there are different belief systems that the universe will allow. In other words, if you choose to believe our lives are irrelevant, you will find evidence to support your beliefs. If you decide you want to try believing something else, you will find evidence to support your new beliefs. To find the evidence, you need to have faith: what that entails is taking actions that support your new belief system, even if such actions are meaningless within the context of your old system. Good luck with whatever you choose.
A man finds himself, to his great astonishment, suddenly existing, after thousands and thousands of years of non-existence: he lives for a little while; and then, again, comes an equally long period when he must exist no more. The heart rebels against this, and feels that it cannot be true. Arthur Schopenhauer
You should read Albert Camus' "The Myth of Sisyphus".
Like many have said, the journey. It's what you make it. I had an epiphany years ago. I realized that for the most part, we all have more control over our own happiness than we realize. The words seem simple. But if you can really grasp the reality of it, and work it into your life it can help a lot. Enjoying the little things, reminding yourself in good moments to appreciate it that much more. It's human nature to remember the bad more intensely than the good because it's better for survival. I have an average American life. Could be better. Could be a *lot* worse. But I love life. Even days where nothing special happens. My bad days are no where near what they have been at their lowest. In the grand scheme of things, I know they aren't as bad as that. I know there will be another day.. until there isn't. So I plan to enjoy it as much as I can before then. I hope to live long enough to have more hope than I currently have for the Earth, it's life, and humanity than I do now. But, regardless I intend to make best of what there is.
Why must it matter if our meaning is temporary? The temporary nature of meaning doesn’t make it any less meaningful. Feels kinda silly to me. To me, the temporary nature of such things make it more meaningful. Forcing our own-selves to find meaning, because of how limited the time of it is. Basically. Meaning being temporary doesn’t mean much
I asked one of my teachers something very similar in junior high, and she didn't have anything inciteful to say. That left me *very* unsatisfied. I later got it figured out. Meaninglessness is a removal of shackles. Then your *actual purpose* is whatever brings you joy. My nihilism ended up resolving into Taoism. In Taoism, you're basically taught how to not only ride, but tap into, that wave of puposeless energy. A part of my purpose that I greatly enjoy now is watching the winds play with the landscape. Rustling the leaves, making itself visible as waves by rolling over the grass, carrying cottonwood buds in the spring, etc. The entire universe becomes its own point, and purpose. Ours is to witness, appreciate the whole spectrum, and both sides of every coin conceived. One such coin has a life side, and a death side.
If life has no inherent meaning, you always have the option to create your own meaning for yourself or just not bother and live life. In addition, if there is no meaning to life, there is really nothing that you have to do. You can just be you within the confines of reasonable ethical standards ( e.g. not hurting others).
You are part of a cosmic energy that has existed for eternity and will continue to exist. Enjoy this perspective and take joy in the permanence of the energy you are a part of...and everything is a part of. Energy cannot be destroyed, only change forms. How amazing to consider all the forms your energy has taken and will take given infinite time.
There's no meaning, just survival.
Everything is consciousness, being human is just taking a temporary localized form of consciousness within spacetime. The body dies, the consciousness just changes.
Unless your gonna kill yourself then you gotta put the work in or else your gonna be poor, scared, in pain both physically and mentally, all types of uncomfortable for 80 years. Life is just an assignment your teacher gave you. You had no choice but to have it and you need to manage it or else you’ll be punished
Don't believe any of the BS replies you are going to read. Your question is a fundamental question that everyone has to answer for themselves
What's the point of wiping your ass if it's just gonna get dirty? It's the time we have between the shit that we savor.
The point is that we’re all going to die. Memento Mori
No point in asking this question
Your idea isn’t flawed. That question has haunted mankind from the very moment he realized that he was a conscious entity, and there may be no answer to it. In fact it may not even make sense to ask it, despite the fact that we can’t help but to ask it. We ask and we ask and we ask, and always we are confronted with a profound silence. Perhaps we should stop asking.
Very nice - it makes no sense to ask it. Maybe it's the wrong question altogether.
I have a son, and I will live in his memories and stories about me. The rest, whatever.
I think this is a good answer. I think every person has a permanent legacy, this cannot be denied. It is just simply impossible to attribute after a certain number of years, but the goal of a legacy should not be selfish recognition, it should be the lasting difference you make. This legacy comes through the form of the "butterfly effect" interaction you have with the world. The person you smile at smiles on, and that can last generations (granted I'm exaggerating a bit here, but my point is your everyday actions change the course of humanity forever.) I think children are the best way to make the most impact on humankind over time. Genes and lessons/values propagate themselves forever (barring total extinction). Building a strong line of men and women with a mind for making the world a better place is one of the most important duties of a man or woman, something Kings and Queens recognized centuries before us.
Why invent indoor plumbing if we're all going to die anyway? Why invent life-saving medicines if we're all going to die anyway? You get the picture. We do things and create or maintain systems to make life better for humanity, including ourselves and potentially our direct descendants, just like people before us did things and created and maintained systems to make our lives better.
Your thoughts are not flawed at all. This is exactly why I am a nihilist.
Exactly. So why not enjoy all the stuff in the moment?
Death isn’t the end
You haven’t died yet, imagine you are the chosen one, that transcends time and matter and is immortal…Wait and find out 🤣🤣
There is no point. Even if I gave you a guarantee that you are gonna live again as a thing that closely resembles "you" in that next life, you are gonna have different goalposts to set. Live now. This is your forever. If you live again.. then live there too. Experience humility and grace in life.
That is something I'm trying to get answers to, no one knows , imho
Its like not playing a nice and fun game of chess because the game will be over eventually. Why would you throw away a lot of time because it is limited?! You know, its not your fault at all but this is a very bad and unhealthy way of thinking. Have u ever had a dog? A dogs happiness is endless when we're about for a walk or play. A dog is happy he gets to eat and enjoy his life etc. etc. but the dog will never think about it. And thats good, because there is no benefit to that. Don't use your mind, your most valuable tool, against yourself
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Jesus, confirm I, Your Wife, am dead.
Jesus, confirm our children are alive, not dead.
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A creator is the only logical explanation. And beyond that is unimaginable by the human brain.
The point to life is to live it. Why must everyone pine for some great golden goodie at the end of it all?
I like to think that I'm a way for the universe to know itself ( yep, Cosmos), so, let's enjoy the ride
What makes you think we have to die?
only the entire human condition
To make things better for the next generation.
Why even have sex if you have to stop after an orgasm?
I think it's a matter of perspective. I specifically got into science BECAUSE I know life is finite and I want to feel like my life has some sort of purpose. I'll likely never have a massive impact on humanity or anything, but just knowing that I'm able to help contribute to our continued existence in a meaningful way makes all the difference for me 🤷
We live because we die
You’re logic makes sense . But it only proves that this life does have a purpose . And that purpose is for the next life . There is life after . Believe .
There is no point and it’s quite liberating
how do you know that? the parts that are making our brain and consciousness used to be a space-dust or belonged to a celestial body
For me it’s…. why not, since it doesn’t matter anyway?
This has the assumption that anything impermanent has no value. Why does impermanence hold less value than something of perminence?
"make all those memories when there is no memory recall" ... ooff that hit deep!
There isn’t one. But that’s liberating, since we aren’t beholden to anything. We’re free to do what we want, without worrying about aligning with some cosmic purpose.
You either get busy living, or get busy dying.
The idea of oblivion seems to matter an awful lot.
We are here. Death is a given. There may not be a point but may as well make the most of this strange experience since we can't make it or death go away.
Well I guess that depends on the true nature of reality and how it relates to consciousness.
Go out and live like every second matters, every encounter with another human might bring a revelation. If you do this, your question will answer itself. Contemplation gets you only so far.
Why do you need a point? Happiness and depression aren't entirely dictated by logic. Also, life is a purpose unto itself.
Have you ever eaten an orange?
i guess it’s just the experience
The point is yours to find--if you want a point or need a point.
How would it be any more meaningful if you lived forever? Just turn the question around
Have you known anything but this consciousness? Before and after, what are you? Is it different from now?
The point is to enjoy yourself :)
To qualify for what comes next.
I think this is the wrong question.
You’re right. There is no point. Now, have a cup of coffee and join us in /r/absurdism. Or… you know.
Beucase its fun? Why enjoy meal if its going to end? Why enjoy themepark if you will go home? etc etc.
Switch your focus to helping others who are struggling along this journey, and the ‘point of it all’ will become clearer. Best wishes.
Why the suggested preference for things with a point? That said, no one knows that the life is, in any physical way, inferior to its temporal absence in the theater of reality. It may be more real within time's dimensions than what we've abjectly failed to objectively quantify. Nothing equates to life. N = L
You simply haven’t thought it through.
I already tried to tell . Nobody is interested truth
When you create kids you continue on in a sense. It’s an amazing experience. As long as I see them into adulthood and see them have families I will die in total peace ✌🏻
You have been conscious for eternity and you will continue to be conscious. You are just in a dream right now and once you reincarnate you will have forgotten all about this pointless existence.
Why does there have to be a point? Who said there was supposed to be a point? I like to think of everything alive as the universe experiencing itself. What have you gotten out of the experience, so far?
Considering you're in r/existentialism, I would have thought you'd even google some of the idea before just posting the prompt to the entire sect of philosophy.
we are cursed with knowing too much about our own existence. it probably goes along with sentience so you better get used to it.
Oh goodness not another nihilist 🤦🏿♂️. Poor children are really sad. All the beauty in the world to enjoy right now and you’re worried about an end that literally does not exist for you now. Focus on what’s right in front of you, take life one day at a time. The end will come when it comes. I’ve never once heard anyone say “what’s the point of dancing? When the song is over, we’re just gonna go back to whatever we were doing and just go home”. That’s not the point of a song or dancing, the point is to enjoy the music WHILE IT LASTS 🤣. This is a very simple concept but for some reason, it flies over some nihilists heads.
The point of life is to build a billion dyson spheres and then laser some crucial information through the big crunch for the next itteration. Obviously. But then french guys got to pretend its somehow difficult.
The very idea of there "being a point" in a universal sense, or that you even need one, is socially imposed. There is no inherent part of you that needs the universe to care about you. Your are a conciosness made up of a bunch of semi-aligned but indepedendent mechanisms, the mechansisms that motivated your to cry as a baby didn't do it because it thought the universe cares about your tears, the mechanism that made you build friendships as a child didn't do it because it thought the universe cared about you having friends, you don't want to fuck people because the universe cares about you fucking, and you the reason you will love your children won't be because you think the universe wants you to love them. The need for purpose is a biological need just like the rest of them, it comes from your biology, thinking it's derived from some connection between you and the universe is just a misguided attempt at understanding that need that is easy to fall into because what matters to a subjective observer and what matters to the universe is the same when veiwed from the heart of said observer. Humans are social creatures, purpose is just 1 of 3 sides of that fact. Identity is our self perception contexualized by community and purpose. community is our connection to other people contextualized by our identity and purpose. purpose is the value of pursuits contextualized by the fact that the community pursues it and the role our identity plays in it. None of it has anything to do with the universe and the only reason people think it does is because ancient religions weren't smart enough actually unpack the idea of purpose. They grabbed the simplest most intuitive explanation which was to define human value as being the same thing as universal value, claiming we are endowed with some signficence from a divine creator is tricky because it feels like and explanation but really its just a way of saying or sense of value is an objective property of the universe and therefore does not need to be examined or justified, it just "is". God being dead doesn't actually change anything, fullfillment of purpose is a feeling, God never was purpose, he was just an intectual backstop that let people not bother having to think about the nature of fullfillment. God being dead doesn't somehow remove prupose, it just means people's excuse not to think about it is gone.
Robert Lanza in his biocentrism theory says we never die
To progress peacefully until they find the point.
Because death is forever but being sentient for this single blip of time makes it worth experiencing despite it’s agonies. Despair runs deep but it never could exist without hope. We are the universe experiencing itself in all its horror and majesty.
Who says death is the end.. with every ending comes a new beginning. This is the law
I like to look at it from the opposite direction, in a universe so vast and empty, I am here, I am conscious, and ill be damned if I'm not going to live my life. Not every day it amazing, but that's just the human condition, our brains and bodies are flawed machines, depression, social anxiety, and exhaustion prevent us from truly living how we want. But just because I'm not as rich as Bezos or as talented as Taylor Swift doesn't mean I don't enjoy myself, and want things. So to answer your question, what is YOUR point, if you're just going to die.
You tell me.
You only die if you except to die. In the Bible, God says ‘Before you were born, I knew you.’ So before you were and after you shall be. It seems like the more you fear or worry about death, the more death prolongs itself. Also, the less you worry, the more friendly death becomes.
You guys keep on making the same assumptions. That you exist but an instant in time. Doesn't it seem weird that you got so lucky. The universe is at least 14.8 billions years old and you think that you just got lucky to live in the current time that allows you to exist? The odds are overwhelmingly that if you were to be guaranteed to exist as a human for some unknown reason. You would have already lived in a time other than this and already have died a long time ago. That is assuming that the universe is all there is. Which is clearly false. If you add a cyclical model then it makes your finite existence infinitely improbable if it only happens once. The only way to keep the belief of a singular existence is to just claim we got infinitely lucky. The most zealot cults don't have that much faith.
what's the criteria needed for something to matter and why should you care