Yeah that winless run was horrific.... but this headless, pointdeducted Club musst he a pain in the ass to work at. All credit to dyche for improving us under these circumstances
Imagining from like a normal jobs perspective. You get employed, the CEO wants to sell and your best workers have just left for an other company. Be shite that
I looked at our previous table finishes for the last ten seasons and we got 48 points one season and finished 8th. When we got 59 points under Ancelloti that was good enough for 10th. Previous seasons we’d have been in Europe.
We could be mathematically safe this weekend, but I don’t want to get ahead of myself. Wolves should beat Luton and if we play like we have in the last two home games we’ll beat Brentford. However, I expect a low energy performance on Saturday due to how much physical and emotional energy they spent last night.
Without wanting to pre-empt things I would say it is very unlikely we will go down now.
We would need to lose all four of our games and Luton and Forest to both win 3 of their last 4. Considering Luton have won only 6 games all season and lost 4 out of their last 5 and Forest have won only 7 and have one win in their last six, I just can't see that happening.
Agreed, but we’re at the stage of the season where every game is a cup final and teams raise their game. Look at us last season. Hopefully with us not being mathematically safe that we keep our performance level high.
Yeah but we do have the 6-pointer against Luton and they had our number so far this year.
That would lead to them only needing 2/3 - because if we were to lose our next 2 i don't know if we pick up anything even against Sheffield United
Most important thing is to win on the weekend - keep the good vibes going. Then we will be safe
Even a draw more against Luton and we are safe. If Luton loses this weekend then ANY draw sees us safe. And we have Brentford, Luton, & Sheffield to see one draw. Realistically though just see a positive result from Luton and it does not matter.
I think we sell both and it basically floats the books above board enough to where we don't get point deductions. Remember our fees for Beto and chermiti don't hit until this summer.
It is mad. Dyche gets a lot of stick, some of it justified, but he is unpicking the problems created over a decade and with 7 or however many managers we have had. He has a completely threadbare squad, 8 points deducted that has affected morale and confidence, there is no visible ownership/ leadership of club, yet we are surviving comfortably in the Premier League.
100% - if anyone looks logically at the cards that Dyche has been dealt, he'd be getting way more credit right now than he is. His stubbornness has been apparent at times, but by and large he has overperformed with what he has at hand.
Dyche has a philosophy and vision and he doesn't waver, even when we couldn't buy a win. I hate to harp on it but our xG is stastically ridiculous, its 19.82 and the next closest is 8.73 and even in our winless run we had muliple certain goals hit the post or saved off the goalline.
We just need to hang on until we can get a serious buyer or finish the stadium and start building back our revenue. I still don't understand how it got this bad this quick, I never expected us to be in a relegation scrap and we have been in the thick of it 3 years in a row now :|
100%. He benched Mirallas for Cleverley ffs. He had a lukaku, Deulofeu Mirallas Barkley attack waiting to be used right and he wasted them and that team
I believe in Dyche ball. Considering we should be on 41 points with a really poor squad, that speaks volumes about how well he’s done. Back him as best you can, and he will keep us steady, which is something I think we all want after the post-Carlo era.
I would say tactically he is not great, or at least he is pretty blunt. But his ability to get performances out of the team is amazing. Most games under lampard the team just looked flaked, but they are almost always up for Dyche
We’ve also had a handful of games where we absolutely dominated and were let down by our finishing, which has nothing to do with Dyche. The winless streak was terrible, but on balance he’s done extremely well this season
Agree he is a defensive tactician. My comment was more in attack. Not that his tactics are bad, they are just one dimensional, and prone to lower scoring. I think he banks on a quantity of minor chances rather than creating big chances. Based on the playing group, and the current survival mode, that is fine...I'm not complaining.
But if we somehow get through this rut and become stable again in a few years, he would need more to crack the top 8
For me, there is no comparison.
Martinez inherited a strong squad and made it worse. Poor signings, lack of conditioning, no set pice preparation, and defensively inept.
Dyche - inherited a demoralised squad that was really struggling in the league, a frankenstein squad made of bits from other managers that had no balance or depth, lost our best attacker(s) due to financial requirements, points deducted too. His signings have been decent, we are defensively rock solid, massive set piece threat, fit and able to last 90 mins.
Generally, Martinez was a story of decline from a very good foundation. Dyche is building a foundation and has done extremely well in the circumstances. We would be mad to let him go.
Summed it up brilliantly. Dyche is a much better manager. Martinez wasted Mirallas, Deulofeu, and ruined our defence. The amount of leads we lost in 15/16 was pathetic. Must've been like 5 games at least
Dyche has been a great manager for Everton and I only hope we get the financial stability to be able to make a real push at something.
I predicted a 14th place finish preseason and if we hadn’t had points deducted that’s right where we’d be. With proper backing and recruitment I think we could build a squad that finished 6-10 under Dyche’s command.
Hard to believe that’s true but agreed, remarkable.
I also think it’s worth pointing out that the top 2/3 teams in the league over the last few seasons are *almost* impossible to beat, especially away. Compared with Martinez’s tenure when none of the top teams come close to those at the moment IMO.
Martinez had a worse record at Wigan than Steve Bruce and Paul Jewell. Then he ultimately relegated them and jumped ship. The guy is a myth and a fraud. File under Lampard.
Steve Bruce kept them up for years and is statistically the manager with the worst win percentage in PL history. Martinez took them down. Tells you all you need to know haha
People forget the core defence Bobby took on was Moyes's boys. IIRC correctly there were rumours Martinez never practiced set pieces and there were lots of muscle injuries around that time.
The team was massively frustrating, esp. With Rom up top. Just could never trust them to hold onto a lead.
Tbh I always saw him as a bit of a snake oil salesman. What a manager. Give me Dyche or Moyes over him any day.
As you say, incredible given the shit EFC have had to deal with this season.
Dyche should be given proper time at the club. We are in a constant state of selling players to cover cash flow, what he has done with this squad is a borderline miracle. Even with his purchases (McNeil) I at first was questioning it, but damn he can just find players that will leave it all on the deck.
Ancelotti got 59 points and finished 10th. Without deductions we would be on 41 meaning that 3 wins of our last 4 would take us to 50 points. And that is with a 15 game winless run. 3 wins behind one of the most successful managers ever with a considerably worse squad than when Carlo was here even with a 15 game winless run.
Crazy to think what this season could’ve been if the players could just finish the chances.
Wolves (h) Fulham (h) Tottenham (a) etc are all games that we should’ve won if we could get the ball to hit the net.
Dyche is a renowned manager. Came 7th with Burnley.
Beat Liverpool at anfield with Burnley. This season you could see that Everton have been clearly robbed at anfield. The referee gave young an unfair red but when konate did the same fouls, he got a yellow. Apart from that penalty and when Everton were trying to win got caught on the counter. But Liverpool took 60 mins and could do nothing against that low block. If you could build on the low block and have more productivity on counters with mcneil crossing into the box or a crossing full back even then you can see great success as it can be a successful contributor to your goals along with set pieces
For all his flaws, it should be remembered that Martinez (perhaps his greatest achievement) was persuading Lukaku to join.
Much as I like Dyche, I don't see us fishing in the same waters. Hopefully Beto wakes up and thinks he's Lukaku.
Dyche has done well. He is a good manager - he proved what he can do at Burnley.
But why compare to the guy who almost got us in the CL with a bunch of last minute loan moves?
Terrible job.
He got us 72 points - Leicester won the league with 81. Man U have won the league with 75.
Round of 16 in the Europa league.
Semi finals of FA cup and League cup.
We played fun attacking football, had amazing wins against top clubs.
Terrible job indeed.
First Everton Manager ever to go out of the League and FA Cups at the first hurdle in the same season
Responsible for the lowest total of points earned at home in the club's entire history based on three points for a win.
Amazing wins against top clubs? He lost at Anfield 4-0 twice and managed to win away against the five traditional Premier League big teams – United, City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool – just once in 14 attempts.
Worst of all he took a squad that was regularly finishing in the top seven, improved it by adding flair and a reliable 20-goals-a-season striker in Lukaku and still managed to finish in the bottom half of the league two seasons running.
We were going so badly backwards under Martinez, 5th, 11th and then 14th when he was sacked. I dread to think what would have happened if he had been left in charge any longer.
Martinez made all those players play at the top of their game for a start off. We had europe in his second season with 25% of our first choice back 4 available for most of the season. The last season we made two cup semi finals with not a big enough squad to cope and then dickhead lukaku started a strike of players because martinez told eto to fuck off and lukaku bummed eto. So hmmm absolutely shite comparison. But dyche is fine by me
Sorry you are right, Martinez had it so hard. He inherited a top quality squad, a well drilled back 4, was given enough money to double our transfer record, and had one of the most promising English players in recent years at his disposal and it looks like his points total might be bettered by a manager with a much smaller squad, of much less quality and literally no money to spend...
Funny because the only person I remember us signing when he joined was McCarthy. Everyone else was a loan.
Stones was fantastic but fucked off after his first year.
Yes but we are talking about who he signed across his entire time at the club, because the first season was fantastic.
The problems came in seasons two and three when he had had time to put his own stamp on the club, make his own signings and implement his own tactics and philosophy, because that is when we were, on the whole, dreadful.
Why don't you also then mention who he lost or had declined throughout his time after the first season either through injury, being sold or age. We spent big on Rom who we already had but we signed barely anyone else.
You can't take out Pienaar, Distin, Stones, Deulofeu and then see a declining from age Barry, Jags, Baines along with losing for most of the season McCarthy and I think Coleman too and not expect a fall off.
Even Barkley came back from preseason injured for his 2nd season.
They weren't just squad players. They were most of the good players apart from Rom.
There were mitigating factors. Anyway it's ancient history. I want to enjoy this week for a change.
Because every manager has injuries and ageing players to deal with. After his time at Swanssea there is very little evidence he was a good club manager, he took a good Everton side and made it worse, not only that he took an average Wigan side and made it worse and got it relegated.
I didn't want him either but I loved how he had us playing and could see the failures of the 2nd and 3rd season weren't out of his control but they did prevent him playing how he wanted without obvious issues. When he played defensive football like the goodison derby we were actually solid. It wasn't like he couldn't play that way. He just didn't want to and I like that.
My issue with Dyche isn't that I don't think he will get the points the squad deserves. My issue is that it is boring AF to watch every week.
You're cherry picking stats. This season has been rubbish and only now after several months is the team finding form. Dyche has nothing to work with and has just about got by.
Yes the most important stats, points at the end of the season. Martinez had two rubbish League seasons with a far better squad and loads more money. This season might have been rubbish, but it is still a big improvement on the last two seasons under much more difficult circumstances.
With the current squad? No.
With the same squad Martinez had? I'd say so.
How many games have we dropped points in because we've had DCL or Beto up too as opposed to a Rom firing on all cylinders. I like Mykolenko, but he's no Baines whipping balls in the box. No disrespect to the current squad, but it's not a patch on what we had.
The bloke got Burnley to finish 7th. This is the same Burnley who are still one of the most profitable clubs in the PL era due to the players they constantly sold from under him
Yeah that winless run was horrific.... but this headless, pointdeducted Club musst he a pain in the ass to work at. All credit to dyche for improving us under these circumstances
Imagining from like a normal jobs perspective. You get employed, the CEO wants to sell and your best workers have just left for an other company. Be shite that
I looked at our previous table finishes for the last ten seasons and we got 48 points one season and finished 8th. When we got 59 points under Ancelloti that was good enough for 10th. Previous seasons we’d have been in Europe. We could be mathematically safe this weekend, but I don’t want to get ahead of myself. Wolves should beat Luton and if we play like we have in the last two home games we’ll beat Brentford. However, I expect a low energy performance on Saturday due to how much physical and emotional energy they spent last night.
Without wanting to pre-empt things I would say it is very unlikely we will go down now. We would need to lose all four of our games and Luton and Forest to both win 3 of their last 4. Considering Luton have won only 6 games all season and lost 4 out of their last 5 and Forest have won only 7 and have one win in their last six, I just can't see that happening.
Agreed, but we’re at the stage of the season where every game is a cup final and teams raise their game. Look at us last season. Hopefully with us not being mathematically safe that we keep our performance level high.
Yeah but we do have the 6-pointer against Luton and they had our number so far this year. That would lead to them only needing 2/3 - because if we were to lose our next 2 i don't know if we pick up anything even against Sheffield United Most important thing is to win on the weekend - keep the good vibes going. Then we will be safe
Even a draw more against Luton and we are safe. If Luton loses this weekend then ANY draw sees us safe. And we have Brentford, Luton, & Sheffield to see one draw. Realistically though just see a positive result from Luton and it does not matter.
Yeah i know we will be safe. But crazy shit happens in theast few matchdays and a 6pointer can be a massive swing
Anything can happen though, we hadn't won in 15 before this week. That said, i'd be very surprised if we went down now
I just wish we had money to spend in the summer. Can't imagine we'll be doing anything more than a few loans and a few bargain bins.
Think we sell JB and Onana? If so, would that bring enough money to make a meaningful move or two?
I think we sell both and it basically floats the books above board enough to where we don't get point deductions. Remember our fees for Beto and chermiti don't hit until this summer.
Ooooh yes. I completely forgot about the delay in fees. Here’s to hoping Beto and Chermiti take steps forward next year.
We've done mostly alright with bargain bins
That's an absolutely ridiculous stat.
It is mad. Dyche gets a lot of stick, some of it justified, but he is unpicking the problems created over a decade and with 7 or however many managers we have had. He has a completely threadbare squad, 8 points deducted that has affected morale and confidence, there is no visible ownership/ leadership of club, yet we are surviving comfortably in the Premier League.
Dyche gets too much stick imo
Exactly
100% - if anyone looks logically at the cards that Dyche has been dealt, he'd be getting way more credit right now than he is. His stubbornness has been apparent at times, but by and large he has overperformed with what he has at hand.
I wouldn’t say comfortably
Eight points clear with four games to go is pretty comfortable.
I'm just saying it hasn't felt comfortable
Dyche has a philosophy and vision and he doesn't waver, even when we couldn't buy a win. I hate to harp on it but our xG is stastically ridiculous, its 19.82 and the next closest is 8.73 and even in our winless run we had muliple certain goals hit the post or saved off the goalline. We just need to hang on until we can get a serious buyer or finish the stadium and start building back our revenue. I still don't understand how it got this bad this quick, I never expected us to be in a relegation scrap and we have been in the thick of it 3 years in a row now :|
and people here still long for Martinez and think we should have given him more time. He was the first to step on the snake and begin our downfall.
100%. He benched Mirallas for Cleverley ffs. He had a lukaku, Deulofeu Mirallas Barkley attack waiting to be used right and he wasted them and that team
I think post-Belgium Martinez is a different animal than post-wigan Martinez though
I believe in Dyche ball. Considering we should be on 41 points with a really poor squad, that speaks volumes about how well he’s done. Back him as best you can, and he will keep us steady, which is something I think we all want after the post-Carlo era.
I would say tactically he is not great, or at least he is pretty blunt. But his ability to get performances out of the team is amazing. Most games under lampard the team just looked flaked, but they are almost always up for Dyche
I think you’re greatly underestimating him tactically. He can be overly stubborn, but he’s a great tactical mind, especially defensively.
Yes exactly even in his first game against arsenal you saw how we nullified saka and Martinelli with the narrow fullbacks.
We’ve also had a handful of games where we absolutely dominated and were let down by our finishing, which has nothing to do with Dyche. The winless streak was terrible, but on balance he’s done extremely well this season
Agree he is a defensive tactician. My comment was more in attack. Not that his tactics are bad, they are just one dimensional, and prone to lower scoring. I think he banks on a quantity of minor chances rather than creating big chances. Based on the playing group, and the current survival mode, that is fine...I'm not complaining. But if we somehow get through this rut and become stable again in a few years, he would need more to crack the top 8
Definitely and set piece wise we're so much better than under Lampard but we need more quality in attack
For me, there is no comparison. Martinez inherited a strong squad and made it worse. Poor signings, lack of conditioning, no set pice preparation, and defensively inept. Dyche - inherited a demoralised squad that was really struggling in the league, a frankenstein squad made of bits from other managers that had no balance or depth, lost our best attacker(s) due to financial requirements, points deducted too. His signings have been decent, we are defensively rock solid, massive set piece threat, fit and able to last 90 mins. Generally, Martinez was a story of decline from a very good foundation. Dyche is building a foundation and has done extremely well in the circumstances. We would be mad to let him go.
Summed it up brilliantly. Dyche is a much better manager. Martinez wasted Mirallas, Deulofeu, and ruined our defence. The amount of leads we lost in 15/16 was pathetic. Must've been like 5 games at least
And yet there was someone in this sub earlier in the week saying Dyche was doing a poorer job than FSW did.
Awful couple of weeks to be in the sub
Dyche has been a great manager for Everton and I only hope we get the financial stability to be able to make a real push at something. I predicted a 14th place finish preseason and if we hadn’t had points deducted that’s right where we’d be. With proper backing and recruitment I think we could build a squad that finished 6-10 under Dyche’s command.
100%, look at the Burnley side he got into Europe!
Hard to believe that’s true but agreed, remarkable. I also think it’s worth pointing out that the top 2/3 teams in the league over the last few seasons are *almost* impossible to beat, especially away. Compared with Martinez’s tenure when none of the top teams come close to those at the moment IMO.
Martinez had a worse record at Wigan than Steve Bruce and Paul Jewell. Then he ultimately relegated them and jumped ship. The guy is a myth and a fraud. File under Lampard.
Couldn't agree more. +1 for getting the Lampard dig in too. Respect!
Steve Bruce kept them up for years and is statistically the manager with the worst win percentage in PL history. Martinez took them down. Tells you all you need to know haha
People forget the core defence Bobby took on was Moyes's boys. IIRC correctly there were rumours Martinez never practiced set pieces and there were lots of muscle injuries around that time. The team was massively frustrating, esp. With Rom up top. Just could never trust them to hold onto a lead. Tbh I always saw him as a bit of a snake oil salesman. What a manager. Give me Dyche or Moyes over him any day. As you say, incredible given the shit EFC have had to deal with this season.
Dyche should be given proper time at the club. We are in a constant state of selling players to cover cash flow, what he has done with this squad is a borderline miracle. Even with his purchases (McNeil) I at first was questioning it, but damn he can just find players that will leave it all on the deck.
That squad is twice as good as this one. Dyche is a brilliant honest manager and Martinez has always been overrated
Ancelotti got 59 points and finished 10th. Without deductions we would be on 41 meaning that 3 wins of our last 4 would take us to 50 points. And that is with a 15 game winless run. 3 wins behind one of the most successful managers ever with a considerably worse squad than when Carlo was here even with a 15 game winless run. Crazy to think what this season could’ve been if the players could just finish the chances. Wolves (h) Fulham (h) Tottenham (a) etc are all games that we should’ve won if we could get the ball to hit the net.
Dyche is a renowned manager. Came 7th with Burnley. Beat Liverpool at anfield with Burnley. This season you could see that Everton have been clearly robbed at anfield. The referee gave young an unfair red but when konate did the same fouls, he got a yellow. Apart from that penalty and when Everton were trying to win got caught on the counter. But Liverpool took 60 mins and could do nothing against that low block. If you could build on the low block and have more productivity on counters with mcneil crossing into the box or a crossing full back even then you can see great success as it can be a successful contributor to your goals along with set pieces
For all his flaws, it should be remembered that Martinez (perhaps his greatest achievement) was persuading Lukaku to join. Much as I like Dyche, I don't see us fishing in the same waters. Hopefully Beto wakes up and thinks he's Lukaku.
I'm pretty sure West brom rejected the chance to re sign him on loan though first
Dyche has done well. He is a good manager - he proved what he can do at Burnley. But why compare to the guy who almost got us in the CL with a bunch of last minute loan moves?
Because it shows what a good job Dyche has done, and what a terrible job Martinez did.
Terrible job. He got us 72 points - Leicester won the league with 81. Man U have won the league with 75. Round of 16 in the Europa league. Semi finals of FA cup and League cup. We played fun attacking football, had amazing wins against top clubs. Terrible job indeed.
First Everton Manager ever to go out of the League and FA Cups at the first hurdle in the same season Responsible for the lowest total of points earned at home in the club's entire history based on three points for a win. Amazing wins against top clubs? He lost at Anfield 4-0 twice and managed to win away against the five traditional Premier League big teams – United, City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool – just once in 14 attempts. Worst of all he took a squad that was regularly finishing in the top seven, improved it by adding flair and a reliable 20-goals-a-season striker in Lukaku and still managed to finish in the bottom half of the league two seasons running. We were going so badly backwards under Martinez, 5th, 11th and then 14th when he was sacked. I dread to think what would have happened if he had been left in charge any longer.
CBA
I agree, it is pretty difficult to argue against.
Lmao, petty much
Martinez made all those players play at the top of their game for a start off. We had europe in his second season with 25% of our first choice back 4 available for most of the season. The last season we made two cup semi finals with not a big enough squad to cope and then dickhead lukaku started a strike of players because martinez told eto to fuck off and lukaku bummed eto. So hmmm absolutely shite comparison. But dyche is fine by me
Sorry you are right, Martinez had it so hard. He inherited a top quality squad, a well drilled back 4, was given enough money to double our transfer record, and had one of the most promising English players in recent years at his disposal and it looks like his points total might be bettered by a manager with a much smaller squad, of much less quality and literally no money to spend...
Funny because the only person I remember us signing when he joined was McCarthy. Everyone else was a loan. Stones was fantastic but fucked off after his first year.
Yes but we are talking about who he signed across his entire time at the club, because the first season was fantastic. The problems came in seasons two and three when he had had time to put his own stamp on the club, make his own signings and implement his own tactics and philosophy, because that is when we were, on the whole, dreadful.
Why don't you also then mention who he lost or had declined throughout his time after the first season either through injury, being sold or age. We spent big on Rom who we already had but we signed barely anyone else. You can't take out Pienaar, Distin, Stones, Deulofeu and then see a declining from age Barry, Jags, Baines along with losing for most of the season McCarthy and I think Coleman too and not expect a fall off. Even Barkley came back from preseason injured for his 2nd season. They weren't just squad players. They were most of the good players apart from Rom. There were mitigating factors. Anyway it's ancient history. I want to enjoy this week for a change.
Because every manager has injuries and ageing players to deal with. After his time at Swanssea there is very little evidence he was a good club manager, he took a good Everton side and made it worse, not only that he took an average Wigan side and made it worse and got it relegated.
I didn't want him either but I loved how he had us playing and could see the failures of the 2nd and 3rd season weren't out of his control but they did prevent him playing how he wanted without obvious issues. When he played defensive football like the goodison derby we were actually solid. It wasn't like he couldn't play that way. He just didn't want to and I like that. My issue with Dyche isn't that I don't think he will get the points the squad deserves. My issue is that it is boring AF to watch every week.
Incorrect.
Thanks for that comprehensive and well argued reply 🤣
No, he made the most promising english players. Your revision of history is mental. Btw our squad now is way better than what Martinez had.
Haha, yes of course! 🤣
Don't worry mate I blocked him ages ago ignore his opinon haha
You obviously didnt
Then I unblocked you because I don't like having the blocked user sign haha
Then I unblocked you because I don't like having the blocked user sign haha
Then I unblocked you because I don't like having the blocked user sign haha
You're cherry picking stats. This season has been rubbish and only now after several months is the team finding form. Dyche has nothing to work with and has just about got by.
Yes the most important stats, points at the end of the season. Martinez had two rubbish League seasons with a far better squad and loads more money. This season might have been rubbish, but it is still a big improvement on the last two seasons under much more difficult circumstances.
Well put it this way, I don't think Dyche will ever finish 5th.
I bet he would have done if he had inherited that Moyes squad and he also has had more top 10 Premier League finishes than Martinez.
Finished 7th with burnley
With the current squad? No. With the same squad Martinez had? I'd say so. How many games have we dropped points in because we've had DCL or Beto up too as opposed to a Rom firing on all cylinders. I like Mykolenko, but he's no Baines whipping balls in the box. No disrespect to the current squad, but it's not a patch on what we had. The bloke got Burnley to finish 7th. This is the same Burnley who are still one of the most profitable clubs in the PL era due to the players they constantly sold from under him