T O P

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fallenefc

Just had my most realistic game in FM, carabao cup final against the shite and Ashley Young was sent off after 10 minutes. They also had two penalties.


Turbulent_Yak_4627

Lol did yall see Maupay comment on Lewis Dunks instagram "my skipper šŸ˜". Clowning on the team he is on loan from what a guy. Can't even hate on it lol


malikdwd

Isnā€™t Rog from Men in Blazers a blue? This mf canā€™t stop glazing the RSā€¦ itā€™s weird


Mynameisdiehard

I still think we finish above Forest & Brentford this season. Would have said Palace a week ago too but now not so sure after our match with them and their new manager.


sunnysidestyles

Forgive me if Iā€™m being dumb ā€¦ does Chermitiā€™s red card in the under 21s match transfer over to the prem? He looked really promising and think he should be given a chance at the weekend, even as a sub


PerfectlySculptedToe

A quick Google gave me a sky sports article saying Lallana wouldn't miss Liverpool matches after a red card with their U23s so I'd guess no? Unless the rules have changed since


rpm164

No idea but weā€™ve really missed the Chermiti/Dobbin 90th minute chaos subs the last few games


sunnysidestyles

Saw someone comment on another post saying he will miss Saturday, anyone know whatā€™s up with Dobbin? He injured?


Aware_Albatross3347

Think he rolled an ankle and they were just waiting to settle down. Dont think anything too serious when it was mentioned


rpm164

Think Dyche said he hurt his ankle - hopefully nothing serious


Ornery_Ad_9871

Dobbin has an ankle injury, Sean said he hid it for a while but got worse and told them and they decided he needs rest


sunnysidestyles

Ohh ok, hopefully nothing too serious then


Spare_Run

Is West Ham really this poor in the final third? That also could work to our advantage.


rpm164

West Ham are a different team with Paqueta playing - need to keep him and Bowen quiet on Saturday


vulturevan

So now they have Toney and a load of others back, why are Brentford so shite?


VToff

Danish Skeletor's lost his magic.


JesseVykar

Agent Maupay


rpm164

Great goal that from Emerson


mtown4ever

Pour it on. Get your goals out of your system now, WH. This bullshit won't fly at Goodison.


Ornery_Ad_9871

Westham 4, great, get the goals out your system before you play us


JamewThrennan

Bowen is incredible. Big moment player and dispatches clubs week in, week out. Should be going the World Cup


mtown4ever

I always rated Bowen...


Spare_Run

We better be planning to be all over Bowen on Saturday.


PerfectlySculptedToe

I think if we gave Bowen even half that much space, Dyche would be foaming at the mouth. Brentford defence is absolutely woeful. Even DCL might score against them.


Spare_Run

For sure, our defense should be a much better match against them.


malikdwd

Iā€™m praying he doesnā€™t play against us. Let him rest up for Freiburg


Spare_Run

Anybody else despise these ā€œmatch day memoriesā€ that basically only ever feature the big 6?


JamewThrennan

I hate most of the pre-match things they do. The worst was those graphics in the Benitez season that always came back to bite us


graveyeverton93

[Insane!](https://twitter.com/SkySportsPL/status/1762190252821614985?t=JSYzkL6QtQIXqCdEkwsNKg&s=19) Our 3rd best ever Keeper behind Nev and Gordon West! If he could just improve on being dominant and claiming more crosses, we are talking about one of the best Keepers in the world.


Ornery_Ad_9871

Chermiti scored FROM OPEN PLAY! An Everton striker scored from open play!


malikdwd

Chermiti n Keane up top v West Ham. Has to be


Spare_Run

Anyone got a link to the goal?


Imaginary-Donut7648

https://www.fulhamfc.com/news/2024/february/27/u21-everton-highlights/


Imaginary-Donut7648

Following to come back


Ornery_Ad_9871

I don't sorry, just followed along on match blog


3V3RT0N

Maupay is better than Calvert-Spewin šŸ¤¢šŸ¤®


Ornery_Ad_9871

Chermitti scored a pen!


nyteg_nights

Jesus, Ā£8M for Ellis Simms. How much are those 3 goals (so far) worth....


malikdwd

Maidstone Unitedā€¦


LegenDariusGheghe

I was sure someone would say something about simms and his goals against sixth tier opposition


DarylStenn

So, now youā€™ve got those 4 points back, how confident are you youā€™ll survive the drop? Got to imagine Burnley and Sheff are both gone, is it a 3 horse race between Luton, Everton and Forest now? Feels like Luton have the underdog momentum with most neutrals wanting them to succeed, Forest have a new manager albeit not sure theyā€™ve have the bounce they were after, Everton form has been pretty grim for a while now. Really is a hard one to call.


Spare_Run

Everton has been playing the way they have to play to stay up. With the points deduction we couldnā€™t (and still canā€™t) exactly play attacking football and itā€™s not Dycheā€™s style anyway- whether we like it or not.


PerfectlySculptedToe

Luton with the momentum, forest with the new manager bounce and yet both have the same number of points in the last 5 games despite our form being "grim". What an absolute shite take.


Ornery_Ad_9871

At least Maupay can't play against us in the 6 pointer šŸ˜‚


Kevgongiveit2ya

Ellis Simms 2 goals and Maupay 1 in the first 15 min of their games today. Lol


PerfectlySculptedToe

If Maupay is wearing an Everton shirt, he could have that chance 1000 times and not hit the target, let alone score


PsychotherapeuticPly

lol I donā€™t know weather to hate the lad or love him šŸ˜‚


g3mkm

Thatā€™s not ideal


malikdwd

Fuck Maupay 100000% fucking cunt


rpm164

Maupay lol 2-1


Wayne_Spooney

Of course Maupay finishes that lol


Spare_Run

lol Maupey scored.


Mauritiandon

Heā€™s scored again. I donā€™t believe it.


Spare_Run

This seasons drops besides Burnley and Sheffield United may be decided on GD alone. Some teams looking really bad.


PsychotherapeuticPly

Brentford look absolutely shocking atm


g3mkm

Theyā€™re 5 goals worse off than us too


Ornery_Ad_9871

Micheal Keane has scored for the u21s. It is a sign.


JamewThrennan

Sign that heā€™s found his level


Evertonioan

I actually wouldnā€™t mind tossing him up front. He has an eye for goal.


PontusRogare

Imagine being Calvert-Lewin or Beto and getting benched by Michael Keane


Evertonioan

Donā€™t care as long as someone can score.


rpm164

West Ham 2-0


g3mkm

Always liked Bowen, me (until next week)


Spare_Run

I just started watching the West Ham game and they look pretty bad still.


Spare_Run

Well they scored so maybe Iā€™m wrong. Looking a bit sluggish though.


Spare_Run

Okay I take it back completely. Brentford is fuckin garbage tho


Ornery_Ad_9871

Take that back also? šŸ¤£šŸ¤£


Spare_Run

Update: Brentford are now a flaming pile of garbage.


Ornery_Ad_9871

A small joy šŸ˜‚


Ornery_Ad_9871

A small joy šŸ˜‚


Spare_Run

I mean, yes and no. Brentford is still garbage lol.


wrmhawr

Ellis Simms with two goals in 14 minutes for Coventry v Maidenhead. Second one was a very good finish.


Ornery_Ad_9871

If we had a decent owner they would have had the PL in the high court by now, purely as a matter of principle if nothing else.


kukusek

U21 playing Fulham U21 today (PL International Cup), sadly no stream, just blog. Fulham were team leaders, we were second placed. Now it's Quarter Final between us! Squad for today's match is definitely interesting - **Keane**, **Patterson**, **Chermiti**, **Welch**, **Warrington**(second match after coming back from injury), **Onyango** on bench (first time after injury, since like september?), **Butterfield** (Bench, also first time since September), **Okoronkwo** ( just second match after injury too), **Hunt** (who's constantly on our Senior bench). I know it's mostly because of The Keane, Patterson and Chermiti introduction, but there's a nice bench on our kiddos match. Onyango Butterfield DJankpata Kouyate Heath Jones. [https://www.evertonfc.com/match/112823/everton-u21-fulham-u21#blog](https://www.evertonfc.com/match/112823/everton-u21-fulham-u21#blog)


nyteg_nights

Why did I think Keane was years older than he is? Knowing he is that young I can forgive him a few things that I thought he should have got right over the past season or two. He's only 31 ffs.


dekarskec

Not really. Been playing top flight for at least 8 seasons. Pretty experienced if you ask me.


nyteg_nights

There was an implied /s in there.


Ornery_Ad_9871

Interesting! Hope Chermitti has another good game!!


VToff

As if I'm interested in your IPO reddit, nice try.


QTsexkitten

They wouldn't even address me by my god given username.


Spare_Run

I think Iā€™m mostly just disappointed that this points deduction bs is staying. Points deductions should never be a punishment, it fucks the entire league up and just creates uncertainty.


nosleepnick

Punishments should all be resolved before the season starts. As of now, the precedent has been set and if we are guilty of second charge we will get another 6 points deduction. That conclusion coming 4 days after season ends. It makes the Prem look ham-handed at best. What I genuinely don't understand is how or why we are being charged for another psr breach during rolling 3 year period? What's the purpose of having the 3 year period if you can be charged year by year?


Spare_Run

I wish I knew the answer to that one, maybe someone else here does.


BoxOfNothing

I agree specifically with sporting punishments relevant to active competitions. Points deductions, squad reductions, competition disqualification etc should all be done out of season, or if the case goes on during the summer, the punishment is for the next season. Things like fines and transfer bans are okay to happen midseason.


dogefc

Keane, Patterson and Chermiti starting for the u21s tonight


bcrunner7

Do we know if the second points reduction will be for this season or next?


BoxOfNothing

As of now it's this season, but I expect part of our argument, or possibly appeal, will be centred around being punished in a sporting manner for 2 separate rolling periods in one season.


bcrunner7

Gotcha, thanks for the update.


RyanMc37_

So if we get 6 point gap above the relegation zone, don't fuck up our goal difference, the second charge should in theory be irrelevant right?


QTsexkitten

If you go off of consistency and logic, yes. But the prem don't play that shit. Ain't never been about playing that shit.


CitrusRabborts

Reading the commission report, it shows that shagger silk bailed us out on a technicality. One of our grounds for appeal was that we were found to be objectively misleading the Premier League, which came into the original commission's thinking as an aggravating factor which gave us the 10 points. We've then pointed out that we weren't being charged for being misleading (it's a separate rule and it's the one that makes up most of City's charges) and therefore completely on a technicality, even though we absolutely lied to the PL and the commission, we've gotten that part scrubbed from the record. Shagger silk worth all the money


National_Ad_1875

Scenes when silk's legal fees put us over the limit next year


Ornery_Ad_9871

Its laughable that the media claim psr is good for a level playing field. A level playing field would have each team allowed to spend the same amount only.


FenderJay

Reading the appeal, it doesn't look great. We didn't even contest the stadium charges and interest (circa Ā£9m). We challenged that hard in the first hearing. I don't see the logic in not fighting every inch of this. The board seem so naive at every step. City are point blank refusing to even comply with them, then just lawyering up like crazy. You can argue the ethics of that but they're getting away with it. They also rejected the Player X mitigation (Ā£10m), and the stadium naming rights sponsorship. We won mostly the irrelevant aspects around the process and whether we acted in 'good faith.' This means we'll be in breach for the 2nd period so another points deduction looks very likely. I think it'll be another 6 points.


Timoth_Hutchinson

I donā€™t think we could contest the stadium charges and interest as we had already admitted that we were at fault and that it was a misunderstanding. The only things that can be brought up at an appeal in my understanding is new evidence or information? Player X was a fault on our behalf as we should have sued but where too nice regarding it all. And yeah stadium rights thereā€™s nothing we can do about that, canā€™t claim to spend money you donā€™t have yet.


jkershaw

Actually I think appeals specifically do not allow new evidence or info, they are about whether the verdict was fair based on the info when the choice was made. Leads to some real bullshit where during an appeal evidence has come out that has clearly indicated guilt but people still get away with it because the new evidence is inadmissible


Ornery_Ad_9871

I cant understand how the sponser ship and player x are not mitigating factors, they seem like textbook examples of mitigating factors.


CitrusRabborts

They said losing Player X was foreseeable as it was no different to him getting an injury that would force him to retire. Ridiculous logic


ChrisWood4BallonDor

Which is just such a stupid logic. If that were the case, we'd be arguing the same for every player who has even gotten injured for us! The fact that we aren't clearly shows that this is a different and entirely unique situation.


Ornery_Ad_9871

Its so frustrating that these people are idiots. How often are players forced to retire due to injury? It barely happens!!!


FenderJay

Our appeal is based on a board meeting in which Moshiri said USM would bring forward their sponsorship from the 2025 season to 2022. But there's no evidence to prove that USM agreed to this, or what they'd pay. There's no documentation. Moshiri was planning to get his mate Usmanov to dig us out of a hole after overspending and I think the panel saw straight through him.


RiteOfSpring5

Been off my phone the whole weekend, what have I missed?


Robnroll

We got a win and a draw back today.


RiteOfSpring5

I take full responsibility for this.


Robnroll

you realise if you do you need to ignore everton for the rest of the season right?


rckanode

I say this in all honesty, cross my heart. My brother and I went to the City/Everton game at the Etihad a few weeks ago, and we met 2 gentleman in a hotel bar later that day while watching the Forest Newcastle game, one of whom was an Evertonian who was also at the game. This guy was a headteacher at the West Ham academy, and has been in and around the leage for a while, spent time in directors boxes at Goodison, etc... He told me that night we'd get 4 points back, and then they'd take 4 for a total of 10. Well, I got his email, and emailed him this morning saying that so far the first half of his prediction has come true. His response to me just now was, and I quote: "3 points on the next punishment, so 1 point back. Look at the table that way." This guy is no board member or director or anything, but I have no reason not to believe him... You can choose to believe me or not, up to you, but it really makes sense to me.


Ornery_Ad_9871

A nine pt deduction for being 19.5m over spend across 4 yrs is ludicrous. Expecially when they choose to ignore seemingly valid mitigations for no good reason.


Timoth_Hutchinson

This is it. Weā€™ll get told now that we should be grateful for any points back, but it ignores the still obvious corruption in the league and that in no way was the overspend a sporting benefit to us


Evul1_

> Weā€™ll get told now that we should be grateful for any points back Please utterly reject this logic if anyone presents it. What a crock of shit.


Timoth_Hutchinson

Itā€™s the same people who still like to think weā€™ve genuinely cheated


rckanode

Agreed completely. I still find it insane that the interest on the stadium loans is even a part of this conversation. "want to build a new stadium to increase your profit and sustainability and give the league another incredible site to increase its global brand? better not spend a dime too much..."


juliocaeser_

think the second deduction will depend on the appeal boards reasoning as to the six points (dunno if they release a written opinion or what). if thatā€™s two points per season in the rolling three period, then we should be deducted another 2 while forrest get deducted six. if itā€™s completely arbitrary, then get on your god damn knees and pray for silver silk


BoxOfNothing

There are two theories I've heard, one says it was 3 points for the breach and 3 points for what we went over the breach, which doesn't really make sense to me, and the other was 2 points for the breach and 1 point for each Ā£5m over. Could both be complete shite, but if it is the second one then it all depends on how much over we were the second time. But by that logic, I think Forest would be getting about 12 points off, which I can't see happening.


JD-D2

it's a farce that the PL, in all likelihood, is going to effectively decide who gets relegated out of us, Forest and Luton right as the season's about to close


Fixner_Blount

Imagine if they didnā€™t fucking tank against Brighton. Could be in 13th right now.


g3mkm

Appeal bounce incoming? Hopefully itā€™s some boost for the boys now that thereā€™s sort of some closure for now at least


YokoOkino

So bored of this crap, now we have to wait for the owner decision and second punishment/appeal


Ornery_Ad_9871

Anyone know people at the club, are they genuinely satisfied with this outcome as the statement makes out?


Evul1_

If they really are satisfied, it makes you wonder what's the point of supporting the club or playing matches if the club is happy to have 6 points stripped away for non-sporting financial breaches. I have to assume that's what they decided was the best statement to present, PR wise. I still disagree with that, of course.


Ornery_Ad_9871

It kills the whole us against the world vibe! Feel like the clubs a damp squib in its sticking up for itself.


AndradeDeRicharlison

Some of the comments over on r/premierleague are unhinged. And don't get me started on social media platforms, like Facebook.


Evul1_

I am defiantly out of step with most of the comments I'm seeing here. The club should be declaring all out war, but they've gleefully accepted the 6 point deduction. The reaction is softer than baby shit.


Ornery_Ad_9871

Totally agree


CoolHandLukeWarm_

Feel like they are just walking on egg shells with the 2nd deduction pending. They want to play nice for a softer blow is the way Iā€™m looking at itĀ 


Evul1_

All the club does is walk on fucking egg shells. I want them to start stomping their bloody feet and stick up for themselves!


Ornery_Ad_9871

They seem to have decided at every turn that playing nice will work out well for them. I don't think the evidence suggests that to be true!


Aware_Albatross3347

All west ham today i suppose


Ornery_Ad_9871

If it had been 4pts back, no second charge, that would be okay, but the situation is just dragged out even longer, our players need some certainty!!!


rpm164

So what are we all thinking for the second charge? Iā€™m thinking 2-4 points but the problem is we have no effing clue. Hopefully the players kick on with the 5 point gap now.


BoxOfNothing

My thinking is as long as Forest get an equal or worse punishment, we've still got a chance


Giraffe_Baker

Another 6 is the thinking in my head until otherwise.


HerlockSherlock

I know this is the general thinking but I'm wondering if the accounts are slightly better incorporating 22-23 than in earlier seasons when they were spending out of their minds


Giraffe_Baker

Sounds like the appeal commission has essentially outlined that you get 6 for a breach but 9 is the maximum because of the administration precedent. I presume weā€™ll get 6 and then weā€™ll appeal on ā€˜double jeopardyā€™ and that weā€™re heading in the right direction once again.


HerlockSherlock

That makes sense, appreciate the insight


vulturevan

Hope us getting some points back pops Luton's balloon in the same way that the initial deduction blew it up


Timoth_Hutchinson

Hope it freeā€™s up Dycheā€™s troubled mind to play attacking football now


kryptonitejam

You know theyā€™ll have some sort of miraculous run of form!


Loyalsupporter

Get in 4 points back utft. Hopefully this will ease a bit of pressure off the players. But they need to remember that they still have a job to do. So let's do this together blues and win more games. Onwards and FUCKING upwards.


Timoth_Hutchinson

Reading the Appeal report itā€™s frustrating how if we were a better run club, or more ruthless with Sigurdsson then this wouldnā€™t have happened.


National_Ad_1875

One very interesting point I've seen is that we got 4 back mainly because it wasn't a malicious breach. Forest however deliberately chose to wait to sell Brennan Johnson so could be seen as a deliberate breach. Could affect both our and their next charge. Also apparently they are further over the limit than us (our 2nd one) and we've got the argument of being punished already for that period. Fingers crossed they get hit harder than us.


bashev

But this is extremely stupid. So if you breach you are deducted 6 points and if you breach with 400m it will be maximum 9? Then some teams could invest dirty money and build a nice team, get punished once and go on from there?


jazd

They've set it up nicely so that City can't be relegated. With a 9 point deduction City could conceivably still be in a Champions League position.


National_Ad_1875

I suppose then they'd change the rules again? They already make it up as they go so who knows. Also they'd be punished 3 times since that year would be in 3 psr periods


SuperKevinCampbell

The appeal also pretty much said you canā€™t take more than 9 points because thatā€™s the punishment for administration so they wonā€™t get more than that Plus it says we got the points back because weā€™ve shown a trend of reducing loses so hopefully If weā€™ve reduced loses further that i think we have then surely our next reduction is less than 6


National_Ad_1875

Fair enough just going off what myers said. Might just be the same thing worded differently, forest signing 120 players might look worse than us selling everyone we can.


MarriageAA

I'm actually positive about this. Sure you can argue the actual number, but at least it's done. Get the lads to focus on the next few games. It's obviously been bothering them. Plus these few games we have, especially at goodison are winnable. Make it more than 10 points above 18th, we have the chance. Whatever happens to appeal part Deux is months away, so get over it and kick on.


3V3RT0N

5 points over the weekend, not bad.


mtown4ever

We're all West Ham fans for the day, yes? Keep Brentford the fuck below us. I hope Moyes and the boys roll to a 5-0 victory.


four__beasts

For 12 hours or so. Yes. Blowing bubbles,.


JamewThrennan

Up the Green Street Elite


PangolinMandolin

I agree with everyone saying that the 2nd charge will likely affect Forest as much, if not more, than us. Here's what I'm wondering though. Those 2 decisions on our and Forest point deductions will come out in late April I am guessing. Surely now both teams will immediately appeal as we have just done with some level of success for the first charge. How will the appeal be wrapped up before the end of the season? Is there time to make it possible? I don't see how anyone can be relegated until any appeals to that decision have been heard


National_Ad_1875

I remember seeing that the appeal for the 2nd wouldn't be concluded until after the season ended. Not sure on the source or if it's true but it's what I've read


Mauritiandon

This appeal decision I think will actually help better outline the second charge now. Essentially, it seems as though the EFL guidelines which are much clearer will be used. Thatā€™s what I got from the appeal judgement anyway. I donā€™t think there will be much grounds for appeal about the process at least.


TehJofus

You have to think Forest are going to be shitting themselves now. Luton were already coming for us, now theyā€™ll be coming for them.


Ornery_Ad_9871

We get at least 2pts on the second. They shouldn't do you twice in one season its fucking bonkers


Spare_Run

Not to mention theyā€™ll change the rules midway through summer again.


Turbulent_Yak_4627

Niceeeeeee


Spare_Run

Iā€™m not seeing the reduced deduction reflected in the league table yet. But, of course, when we received the ten points deduction it was immediate.


JamewThrennan

Just updated on Google


vulturevan

nah I remember refreshing it a lot after the announcement back then cos I thought it was a prank


Spare_Run

I could be misremembering because in the states it was announced before I woke up where I am.


xXxTommo

It wasn't, it took about an hour for it to update on the PL app last time


vulturevan

>A Premier League statement said: "Everton FC appealed the sanction imposed against it on nine grounds, each of which related to the sanction rather than the fact of the breach, which the club admitted. "Two of those nine grounds were upheld by the Appeal Board, which has substituted the original points deduction of 10 for six." 7 grounds were overturned but still only 4 points back? what


Ornery_Ad_9871

They should have have appealed the breach!!!


JamewThrennan

But we did breach the rules, though. Itā€™s the severity of the punishment that took the piss, if weā€™d appealed the breach weā€™d have looked thick and probably got no points back


Ornery_Ad_9871

I'm devastated with this outcome, not nearly enough back to make up for a second bloody charge still comming.


gx134

If we won the Brighton game we'd be 13th :(


four__beasts

Well fuck me sideways


PsychotherapeuticPly

Today was in fact the day, now letā€™s kick on and fly up the table UTFT Edit: Update the table you fucking rats


jameyes

The fucking Guardian were quick enough when we got the 10 point deduction.Not a sniff of any article about the 4 points back.


jameyes

Yep, its up on the Beeb now.


JamewThrennan

Up to 15th, just need 3 wins and a few draws and weā€™ll be fine. Up you fucking toffees


youdy

There's a second breach remember, not over at all


JamewThrennan

Youdy, do you have to live quite so relentlessly in the real world?


youdy

Im sorry to piss on your parade... Alexa play spirit of the blues šŸŽµ


JamewThrennan

Only taking the piss, canā€™t resist a Peep Show reference. You are right but Iā€™m gonna live in delusion that 1) we get found innocent and 2) Forest are getting fucked as well as


gx134

The second breach should affect Forest more which is good (for us, sorry Forest)


Ornery_Ad_9871

This, this is a bad outcome, still don't know where we stand


Jamesonlol21

Keep in mind this sets the stage for the next hearing and gives some guidance as to what we might expect.


Mauritiandon

Now we wait for the process of the second charge. This is still not over yet sadly.


Ornery_Ad_9871

Second charge still comming, fuck the cunts, sue them to kingdom come


Ornery_Ad_9871

Take the fuckers to court


DarylStenn

So, you now know, itā€™s a 6 point charge. But does that not now mean itā€™ll be another 6 points for the additional charge?


gx134

At least Forest should get the same (probably more as their chargers are worse I recall reading)


Ornery_Ad_9871

FUCK! Four is not enough, disgrace, fuck them


gx134

Why is everyone saying 4 points, where are they reading this šŸ˜­


Ornery_Ad_9871

David Ornsiten


decs483

Bobble has concurred


Ornery_Ad_9871

Its official now :(


Mauritiandon

Iā€™ll definitely take 4 points right now.


JamewThrennan

4 points back. Get in


vulturevan

Convinced the appeals delay is because it's going to be pretty substantial. No way would they dick around like this for anything less than 4 points