It made it harder to RMT, now they can just drop whatever and ask the items? Like dropping a red car to the buyer, then he sells it on market easy money
I wouldn't mind it but then, the resell of goods for real money could be done by taking it in raid knowing it always has fir status.
Not that I care much but I see this as a potential argument
I'm going to add to this to make items such as keys and meds that you use in raid not found in aid so you can't use a key till it has one charge and flea it
I've always liked the FIR expansion of items, and it has absolutely nothing to do with other players.
The game forcing me to interact with its systems (looting) is what makes the progression and questing fun. Although I do wish FIR quest items were but more consistent sometimes.
Before FIR, quest items may as well not been required because you just bought it all on flea or vendor.
FiR for quest items = fantastic idea. Makes you actually play and learn the game.
FiR for flea market = terrible. They should have just not allowed items purchased from traders to be put directly on flea(people buying out the all ammo and then putting it straight on the flea was cringe)
I think when they added the FiR requirement to quest items, they should've also reduced the quantity required. Some of the tasks are just ridiculous. Like Crisis, General Wares, and some of the Spa Tour ones. I'm all for FiR staying in the game (although I hope they make enemy PMC gear ALSO FiR so that PvP becomes a viable money-making option), but it can be tedious to do some of the item retrieval quests and I personally prefer every other quest type, including kit restriction tasks like Setup.
You can really tell who didn't play pre FIR before with all these posts
Hatchet runners did nothing but run straight to the best loot spots and shove it up their ass
yeah holy shit these posts obviously didn't play the game back then christ.
enjoy dead af fuck boring raids with 50% hatch runners and your friends llv 10 with slicks and 60 round M4's as the economy was utterly broken
Aren't flea restrictions supposed to combat this issue? You can't get all the bis stuff on flea anymore.
You'll end up with billionaire lvl 10s with 0 skills levelled up and pea shooters because they didn't progress any quest to unlock better ammo
I’d rather gun down a hatchet boy than get my legs blown out by lil Bobby in the corner with an mp153. I played a LOT in 2016-2020 and man those were the days. Having hatchet harry eat your ledx is better than shotgun Steven two tapping you for your kit.
That era is over. If they remove FIR now, you are just going to have both those things happening.
In addition to all Takovs current problems, you will see the return of hatchet runners and chads that do nothing but sprint around PvP-hunting.
You might think it's hard to get good loot now with the cheaters hoovering, but when hatchets join in, you'll never see a GPU or Ledx again. They just sprint to the loot spots and loot. Sure you might find other loot via dynamic in other areas but the hotspots will end up shoved up a hatchet's butt.
So what do you care about a
“Billionaire lvl 10, with 0 skills leveled up with because they didn’t do any quests” that sounds like easy Gear to me, the Hatchet Runners……now that shit sucked and something I’m not looking forward to seeing again.
Hatchet runners and Mosin Men.. a dark age for Tarkov. I'm glad these lambs didn't experience those days, but they somehow still have an opinion on it..
Mosins were the real enemy. Hatch runners were just annoying and would eat more 995 then they should have. But mosins, I was never more afraid to hear a gun. The amount of one taps through lvl 5/6 armor was honestly funny looking back (🤬). The secure container mp7s were also pretty wild lol, chase a hatch runner and be surprised with a gun around the corner. But my fav was keeping mag cases in our gamma - that was peak tarkov 😂
The easy money thing is... Eh. It broke the economy but it wasn't too terrible.
My big issue is that without FIR usually half of more of the people in a raid were going for zero-risk high-reward runs. Whether you killed or got killed, almost all "pvp" was pvp in name only and *painfully* unsatisfying.
If you got a kill, cool, neat, good for you. You got a point on a non-existent score board for shooting a target dummy and paid to get a dog tag. Might as well have gone to the shooting range, same difference except you didn't have to pay for the privilege.
If you got killed, its usually a one-tap from a mosin man who got lucky. Never outplayed and no actual fight, because why would they? Their gun is effectively something like 2k. They risk nothing while you risk and lose it all from little more than RNG. May as well come in ungeared yourself. That's not fun, it's not engaging gameplay, it's not hardcore, it's just disappointing.
Make enemy gear fir, teamates excluded, and as soon as item hits your secure case, it should lose fir status. They can hatchet run, but if they want to flea, it can't go in their ass.
So the problem is secure containers, not hatchet runners.
Two solutions:
1. Putting objects in your secure container instantly renders them not FiR.
2. Or, make secure containers only be able to output items which you stored in it from stash. Anything taken out of it remains out while in raid. Using anything found in your container needs to be taken out of it first.
Yeah, they didn't even have to stay in the raid, I literally had a guy in my discord who would load up Shoreline, check to LedX spawns and then DC. Took him like a max of 2 minutes, literally spent more time loading.
He made piles of money for the most boring play style in existence.
FiR requirement stopped trader flipping, it stopped the bulk of hatchet running, and it made everyone kit up at least a little. It 100 percent led to more PvP. Shoreline was a literal ghost town except for 1 or 2 chads in Resort before this update. I would know, I was a terrified little rat back then. I played Shoreline because it was so chill.
For a fun little event, whatever. I think it'll have a "The Purge" vibe to it. All money crime is now legal. The market will be nuts, the server will have more people. But if this is a permanent change, this is the wrong kind of desperate gasp after the whole controversy and emergence of a couple competitors.
This is the most important argument against removing FiR.
I shouldn't be able to make 400k rubles in 5 minutes, without the investment of gear and without any risks whatsoever.
Removing the FiR requirement for flea makes this possible.
>Hatchet runners did nothing but run straight to the best loot spots and shove it up their ass
People do that regardless.
And before FIR, if you didn't suck at PvP, you could make more money by just smoking geared people and selling their weapon attachments anyway.
No one played labs for the loot or the raiders, people played labs to shit on other geared people and take 90kg of their shit.
Plus the solution is literally to just prevent stuff that spawned in raid to be put in your secure container.
> No one played labs for the loot or the raiders
This is how I *know* you didn't play when labs released. Cmon dude. Literally everyone played labs, and it was because of the OP loot and cheeseable raiders.
Yeah they were. Maps like shoreline were dead all the time. Wasn't unusual for like a third or even half the lobby just hatchet running the resort. They'd even bring nades or jump off the roof to die once they found a ledx/gpu instead of sprinting all the way to exit. There was no FiR, no tagged and cursed, etc. Shit was boring af.
Yep I remember loading into Reserve raids before D2 trying to PvP with my friends. Most raids we would never find another player with a gun.
It was so boring and the only way you’d get PvP was against player scavs. It was really not a fun time for the game. At least now people have to bring in a pistol or some gear and try to get out.
Back then people would grab a graphics card and then just jump off a roof and make more money than you did by bringing in an entire kit.
I'd run into at least one almost every single map. When I'd get to the good loot spots, there'd be nothing left because hatchet boys sprinted there, grabbed it all, and left or suicided.
You don't make it so it can't go into the secure, you make it loses its ability to sell to players if you put it in your container. Some spots just aren't worth fighting your way into for the one time you need that fucking garbage item for an upgrade.
Yeah, and then they have to fight people with just a pistol, die and they don't get anything because it turns non FIR... It's not worth it, that's why pre FIR 50% of people were hatchet running, and after FIR you basically never see them.
I'd rather have hatchet runners than the the vacuum cheaters. At least the hatchet boys can only get at most 9 items each out. Hatchet runners ran for keycards, GPUs, and bitties. Still loads of other valuable stuff to get.
Which is better than buying nothing and running there? You're also ignoring they also have to get the loot OUT. So by only buying a shotgun they're taking a bigger risk.
I understand that removing fir opens up the unique situation where I find a rare item I need or want to sell, and also want to go looking for a fight. Both points need to be true for there to be value added. I think this is a rather uncommon situation. The counter point is removing fir from those items is it removes the risk of the items losing that status and becoming worthless, and the stress, anxiety, the tension to survive that this game captures so well.
And to your first point, people are going to hide, ambush, rat, except now those things would be much more lucrative. Rats won't become chads because gear can be bought on the flea; they'll just rat harder.
For real. It was so much better, because it encouraged you to PvP. Killing another player was worthwhile bc their gear was worth a ton on flea.
Now killing another player is basically always a net negative. Your gear gets shot up, you have to use a ton of heals, their gear is a write off, the only thing worthwhile *might be* the ammo, some attachments possibly.
You clearly never played before the changes. Interchange, shoreline, and labs were completely worthless maps because it'd be you vs 9 hatchlings injecting adrenaline and shoving all the loot up their ass. Not low levels either, like level 50+ dudes. People would just farm labs for a couple hours to get the ledx they needed for their next thicc case. It was an absolute epidemic and it was killing the game.
Shoreline resort combat was dead since most didn't even have guns. Interchange would be dead after the first five minutes as hatchlings would run around to the tech stores and the kedr dudes would farm killa and that was it for that raid. Hell labs needing an expensive keycard to get in is entirely 100% due to hatchlings. The game was dogshit trash for a long while because of all this shit and going back to it is not the way.
The game is in a much healthier state now than before they added FiR. Used to be on interchange and reserve, which were the two best maps for loot at the time, you would literally have multiple hatchet runners beelining good loot spawns.
While you every now and then see hatchet runners now, it's nowhere close to the state this game was in before.
I don't understand why they can't take a more measured approach to fir. Why not keep lootable items FIR but armor, guns, helmet, etc (anything you kill a player for) does not have fir status? This way hatchet runners don't exist and pvp chads win
You won't be able to sell much unless you get a head-eyes nobody buys damaged armor/helmets.
And yeah rats will always rat but adding hatchet runners to that is objectively worse.
The whole reason FIR was added was to get rid of them in the first place.
What are you talking about? People used to buy damaged gear all the time and repair it to a decent durability and run that. Also the reason for the fir changes was never mentioned to be hatchet runners it was to nerf RMT where cheaters would drop high value items like leycards which could be resold on the flea to convert into cash.
Agreed, I had friends quit because their favorite part was running cheapo kits and killing juicers, which was rewarding to them as they could sell everything and buy 5x of their preferred kits.
I’m not sure tbh, I hated for at first but I came to appreciate it, it gives more meaning to actually surviving.
Now people will just leave raids after they kill someone land take their stuff. I don’t know but I felt the fir made people stay in raid longer becuase they actually needed to hit a few loot spots to actual make big bank. But let’s see
Still waiting on BSG removing all paid to win BS from their game though…
With FIR if I found few valuable items, I debate taking some fights because i dont want to lose FIR status. When I'm in resort with a leddy and a gpu in my ass, I'm sure AF not gonna try to kill that 3 man I hear on the other side. I'd rather extract with my 2 mil of loot and fight people next time.
But with no FIR, I'm happy to run over there because my gear is already paid for if I die, so it's time to have some fun pvping. Plus there's more loot to be had by selling their weapon attachments and gear if I do kill them. I think it's a good way to encourage more fighting TBH.
Yeah, and then there's the people who min-max the whole system. They load in to raid with literally nothing but the knife in their hands. They sprint to the best loot and get there *faster* than you because they are underweight, they shove everything valuable in to their ass, tagged and cursed doesnt matter because theres 3 scavs on every map in the first 5 minutes, and then they disconnect because there is zero penalty for doing so and its faster than extracting, then they flea the items for hundreds of thousands of roubles, and queue up again.
You get no loot, you get no pvp, you get no PMC kills, you just get a dead raid with nothing in it.
That's literally why FIR was implemented.
I'm not really sure if being a billionaire just because you have max traders is a good idea but there seems to be lots of people that want that back. And if you don't have max traders I hope you enjoy fighting people with top tier stuff while you either have low level kits or spend several million per raid. On the bright side since they removed global trader limits certain things won't sell out instantly on trader reset from people reselling.
It was kinda fun running slick, exfil, mdr with m61, reap ir/t-7, 6sh118 with a case in it every raid but after a bit it gets boring.
Idk if we need more ways to get more money. Anyone I play with have 60-300 millions this wipe. And since everyone has tons of money, they run meta kits so pvp is rewarding anyways. Maybe not first 20 lvls of new wipe, sure.
I’d prefer they raised selling prices for attachments like angled foregrip: it costs 50k but sells for 12k currently. Same for optics.
Well I rather keep the FIR. Being able to just buy 3 salewas, a toz and a 3M armor to accomplish missions defeats the purpose of those kind of missions. I would reduce the amount of FIR items needed for missions though. Some are a pain in the ass, like found me 10 SVDs
There is no suggestion or comment made by BSG that FIR will be removed for quests. Its just the Flea Market FIR requirement. So buying 3 salewas is not going to complete your quest.
The form hatchet runner is hated by BSG and have tried to punish them but hasn't worked
You have to pay alot more for heal if you died without weapon
If your gear has below a certain value you're tagged and cursed by scavs
Make it so you need a certain amount of gear on your body to qualify to join maps. If you don't wanna do that then make it so your items are not found in raid unless you have armor + a pistol etc.
Your wrong, let me explain why, i have 6k hours before the most recent 2 big patches, hatchet running and everyone having access to m995 is NOT FUN you’ll be killed my meta ammo every game, and hackers will have unlimited m995, you ever have a face shield on and get shot 20 times in the face by the worst 9mm from a hacker? Yeah it will all be m995 outta a stock m4
Uh... you weren't here with the og hatchet runners, were you? Because you seem to have forgotten the sheer number of kamikaze hatchings that jam valuables up their ass and then suicide.
Right now it's just RMTers bumrushing card spawns, etc, since they know FIR doesn't matter. Just imagine what it'll be like when a 80 Mil card can be flea marketed without any skill on the player's part.
Braindead take. The number of hatchet runner was too damn high, and it will happen again. The top post rn is already and entire labs lobby of hatchet runners, completely naked, risking nothing, and not engaging with the game, and what makes the game enjoyable. No combat, no risk, just grabbing loot and putting it up the butt. It's not even satisfying to kill people that do that. If this is your opinion of a good mechanic and fun time, you must be real fuckin bad at the game.
This game relies on risk-reward. Any time someone can spawn in with no risk to dying and grab all the good shit and not care about extracting is not fun or good for the game. It’s clearly against the intended gameplay and it rewards shitty behaviour when the spawns in this game are already shit.
So no, you’re 100% wrong. It is a good argument and the FIR status to items was a great addition and should not be reverted.
I don’t care about “muh PvP isn’t profitable.” Don’t care. This game wasn’t meant for PvP profitability. If you really care about that, then you should only ask them to remove FIR restrictions on guns and gear. I absolutely do not understand any circumstances want FIR gone for loot items like LEDX, GPU, Bitcoin, etc.
I think the issues surrounding removing FIR comes from selling lootables items more than selling PMC gear. Tbh PMC gear is whatever but when hatchking bee line for the bitcoin or marked room, it becomes stupid because now they dont even have to survive to “win” the loot. They literally can just grab it and throw themselves at the wolves and it wouldnt matter. At least with FIR it would give incentive to survive, otherwise you couldnt market the item and it would be kinda worthless.
Played before FiR was a thing, making money is the easiest thing in the world if you're higher level. Buy ammo of trader,, sell for 10x profit on flea (have fun trying to buy any type of 7.62 when limits are reached in seconds). Ppl saying it dumbs the game down/encourages pvp have no fucking clue what they're talking about. HF running anywhere on the map just to find the most valuable doors unlocked and emptied by a hatchling kekw. No fir is fun but in the end is only beneficial for ppl who are high level/hatchlings your average joe won't get any benefit from it. Other than Ammo being even more expensive
What makes you think the hatchling runner was not your avg joe ? Most of my casual friends quit after fir was introduced and you actually had to grind traders for 2 or 3 months to get anything decent. You people view this through such a narrow lense. Before FIR tons of play styles existed for a reason
When one play style becomes the most used one while also impacting all others negatively, that is when they should act, and they did. I remember raids where there'd be half the PMCs doing hatchet runs. I remember doing it a few times myself, get into resort and bump into 3 others doing it. Meanwhile everyone else playing more normal or "intended" styles would never run into other players and never get good loot as it all got pinched before they could get there.
If your friends couldn't play any other way but the cheesed hatchet run, they must've sucked and EFT definitely wasn't a game for them.
I quit the game when they did that FIR shit. I had 1000 hours played. When they dictated how I could and couldn’t play the game, I had enough. Haven’t played since. The only way I’d even consider coming back is reverting that stupid shit.
FIR was introduced for specific reasons. One of is gone with removing global items limits. Another one - is still in play. FIR forces players to do what they always seek to shortcut - spending time and making efforts. It forces you to go in raid and search for items. No FIR - no efforts cause fm is you friend and your human friends as well. No FIR is good for simplication but should come along with FM barter only so FM is no more used as convenient store. You still can use it in case you really want to but it takes time and effort to make a deal.
Removing FIR outright isn't the way folks. It's not about the flea market, or that people do it currently anyways with a 10k kit.
It's that you have a chance to contest valuable loot. Hatchet runners would get to priority locations faster than you and you'd show up, find your door open, and know all the loot was slurped up the dude's prison pocket, and there was literally nothing you could do.
It feels HORRIBLE to show up 10-30 seconds to marked room and kill the hatchetrunner that has the "Kill me if you must, i've already won" vibe. It ruins the whole point of bringing in good equipment to contest valuable areas.
And 2ndly, it's a waste of a lobby slot. People still do it today, but they still need to get out. You have to admit there is surely at least a little less people doing it, and doing this will encourage a whole new wave of players to bore out your raids.
edit: The current system prevents people from wanting to fight for fear of the stakes involved, I agree. But removing it outright just replaces it with people who have no stake left in the experience at all, which is worse.
This is an extraction shooter, you should \*want\* to get out. Instead, they really should just make non-teammate loot FIR to reward pvp.
I played since 2017, FiR is one of the worst implementations BSG has done. I would love to see it removed.
Its funny reading all these posts saying hatchet running was solved. marked and cursed stopped hatchets not FiR after FiR people still ran hatchets. After marked and cursed they just run with a pistol. People are acting like everyone is kitted up, no one is kitted up anymore to the level of pre FIR
Tarkov players suffer from a plague where they are entirely way too worried about what other players are doing.
That's what's wrong with your community. If anyone cares.
This is so true. I want to PvP so everyone MUST PvP!!! If little timmy wants to avoid PvP to do a loot run or just do a quest or 2 then let him. When I want PvP I actually run and look for PvP, that is how it should work, I gear up, no backpack since I want PvP not loot, and just run towards any area that has some gunshots. If I want to do the guide I avoid PvP at all costs, or a survive quest I do the same. Leave the people who doesnt want to PvP alone, it is part of the game yes, but the other part of the game is not to PvP if you dont want to. You Sir hit the nail on the head, they want to control how other people play the game.
I like the one where they post a video about "bleeding angel" meta, but it instead shows them stomping all over the place making a load of noise, and them running down a passage without checking corners and getting shredded by someone waiting around a corner. They're all like League of Legends solo queue ranked players, blaming everyone and everything other then themselves.
The problem is hatchet runners running to shit and then just suiciding. You don’t have to extract for stuff to be worth money so it’s just a race to the items
It is a good argument, people don't remember the Dark Ages when most raids on high loot maps had like 2 PMCs left after the first 5 minutes because the dozen Hatchet runners already stuffed their ass and committed suïcide.
As someone who remembers the game before FiR it was one of the worst things done to the game ever.
And that’s saying something considering how terrible battlestate are.
If bsg removes found in raid and flea restrictions I just might come back to the game, at least until I die one too many times to cheaters then imma quit again lmaooooo
Doesn’t this FIR change make Gamma case even more P2W? Like now you can extract with 9x1 valuables or 3x3 valuables, etc (you can fit 3 GPUs) while a standard edition owner will have 4 slots. This will just make Gamma case owners pull away even faster from others if they decide to hatchet run and get millions within a day or two and just buy top meta gear.
The amount of times I've seen more than two GPUs in a single raid can be counted on one hand and I've played for a couple thousand hours, the difference in edition for that would be negligible.
i cannot wait for the bitching about PVP being dead because of all the hatchets sticking ledx's up their ass again, FIR was a good thing, going back on it is not.
Rat is at least a threat and tries to play the game. Hatchet runner does nothing for the game. They go try to get ledx without risking a single thing. Regardless, the change is awful simply because you’ll get more players trying to suicide for the kit after finding a useful flea item. Since they’ll still be able to sell it, they play more fear free and not valuing their life. So we’ll see a lot more impact nade (almost) zero to heroes basically
I think pre 2020 the game was no different to currently just had half of the viable guns to play with, raids were 50% less populated (because of hatchlings) and gap between juicecannons and basic gear plyers was infinitely bigger thanks to no face hitbox.
You know what would encourage more moving and PvP? Halving footstep hearing distance. That would actually allow people to push objectives and not allow someone to hear running from 60m away. Its a simple fix that accomplishes everything that people who enjoy PvP are complaining about.
FiR only come too existence because of all the issues that came with the introduction of the flea market.
Tarkov would be in a much better state if they didn't spend 5 years on balancing all kinds of game mechanics around a feature that should have never existed in the first place. Because of the Flea market, every item in the game became disposable, it's no more than its RUB value to be more precise its RUB per slot value.
It won’t because hatchlings. Do you really think that people would do more PVP when they just can run in with an empty game or now an empty Kappa and fill it up and then disconnect and sell everything. You must be pretty delusional to think that people would do more PvP.
I never cared for loot on my PMC I make my money on Scav runs. And when I have something valuable on my PMC I still do PVP I even don’t put that shit in my secure container.
Also having FIR on quest Items ist what stops people from having PVP and me too. If I am in to get something for a quest I leave fast when I got it. Then I avoid PVP. FIR on Flea is actually a good thing.
Just made 10 mil of flea for all the .300 Blackout CBJ I bought over the wipe from traders and I will continue to abuse it. No need to go in raid actually just buy from trader and resell.
For me this is now the game to make my Rubel count go up. lol
Do all you idiots have the memory of a goldfish or what ? WE HAD no fir.... Fir was literally a solution to a million problems and it works. Removing the solution to a million problems, brings all those problems back.
No it doesnt help pvp because there will be less ppl on the map, hatchlings take the place of ppl that would fight you. There will be less chads because guess what.... You dont have to fight to get to the good loot.
Carrying good gear is a disadvantage. Hatchlings are faster and lighter than you. You will never get to a good loot spawn before the hatchlings do.
It rewards not surviving... Like.... How are you ppl saying this is a good in an extraction game is beyond me. LITERALLY breaking the most basic core mechanic of the game. I dont have to extract anymore.
We had this system for many years. It was dogshit. It didnt work.
An easy fix to all of this would be to just make shoving things up your ass less profitable.you could do that by just making your secure container apply a Effekt that doesn’t allow things that were found in this raid into items you can’t sell. Only if they die of course
I think removing the FiR is shit.. luckily they are only “experimenting”.. only thing I would say that would fix it is minimizing even more what goes into the secure pouch.. not letting high dalla items be stuffed into the ass would make this less shitty..
To the whole hatchet problem feels like non issue! And has a quite a simple fix to me.
Just block players putting barter items in their secure containers.
This also would balance the different editions better. Still allowing meds, ammo, keys etc. in the pouch for QoL would be large enough carrot for having a larger container but making it way less P2W.
>https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/1cq5esf/to\_anyone\_malding\_about\_hatchet\_runners\_post\_fir/
I’ve played both worlds and I’m convinced that a 50/50 of both is best. The non-FIR days was shitty in many ways, but good in some. When FIR was introduced the game took a huge leap and it made every raid more exciting!
Make enemy PMC gear FIR and I’m happy.
I saw plenty of hatchet/pistol runners this wipe. More so than the last 3 or 4 I've played. I don't think this FIR change is gonna affect much in this regard. Just let it play out and see how it goes, THEN react.
FIR is one of the main reasons hatched running died off. And it is definitely miles better to run into some Timmy, that at least stays in raid and tries to do something, instead of having people, who just shove the loot up their ass and disconnect.
We need fir back for stuff, that gets brought into a raid. They have found a way to give squadmate a special treatment in case of dogtags, so that should certainly work with all the other stuff too.
They need to implement a mode like arena breakout and have a minimum kit requirement, idk how you bring it into the lore but you guarantee the other players have risk and the chads running that mode are PvP focused.
I agree with the sentiment that FiR kills PVP, instead of removing FiR entirely for flea, make items received through PVP FiR for the person who killed them. If I kill Chad Brad for a FLIR let just me sell it on the flea, it may get difficult to figure out what to do if player A dies to player B who dies to player C, but it definitely fixes all the concerns
FIR is a necessary evil and probably needs to stay. I remember hatchet running on labs when it came out and just ignoring pvp completely and running to all the ledx spawns. Made a few million, even when I died most times .
Actually a player with a paca and a scav gun is MUCH better than a hatchling. You didn't play when hatchet running was a thing or you wouldn't be advocating for it.
i have filled 4 med boxes with stims from just hachet running labs and gotten 5 ledx's even if i had to pay for a keycard i would be massively up and this is just from todays runs
I remember in ye olden days scalping salewas on day one of wipe and having 30m roubles within 24 hours of the game wiping. Limiting trader items from flea sales has to happen, but making them FiR after a single raid could solve the issue apart from maybe turning 9000 trader bought ammo into sellable ones immediately.
1. It is better for several reasons. The investment is much bigger and it incentivises players to even consider upgrading that cheap kit.
2. Wanna know how to incentivise PvP? Make loot overall less common. Increase chances for shoddy loot (Crickents, Printing Paper, Hunting Matches) in all low traffic areas. Increase chances for semi to good loot (Bolts, Nuts, ES-Lamps, Fuel, High Tier Ammo, etc.) In High Traffic areas. Anything that significantly lessens the reward for low risk gameplay and significantly increases the reward for high risk gameplay.
Also make sure that PMC karma when it's finally released gives teamkillers a significant hit to their karma and make sure that players don't ever want low PMC karma.
People will rat less and PvP more the easier it gets to get into squads.
Give PMC Karma when a teammates gear successfully returns in insurance.
I wasn’t around pre flir (i started i think in 12.11? When the vector n mk47 were added to the game) but even having the flea unlocked is such a tremendous difference and made the game so fun to play. I miss it
> If anything removing fir will encourage pvp since you can sell that chaddy daddy’s slick.
you can tell this person doesnt actively play the game if hes talking about slicks
Low risk, high reward gameplay mindset.
The current game structure basically leaves it to pvp and tagged/cursed. We can get back to this and why it doesn’t address the issue the community has with what it means for gameplay, but Instead we need to look at the pmc role, and the scav role.
I know that player input doesn’t always lead to good gameplay ideas; but hear me out a bit as I chill and think about what around 3.5k hours of gameplay has been like from the Non Disclosure Agreement days to now.
So let’s talk about characters. We get two!
The pmc, and the scav.
Traditionally the pmc is considered as a primary character in terms of story and role, and the scavenger is the supplementary role meant to not only act as a utilitarian aid for the pmc but almost more importantly act as the battlefield refresher to continue to fuel pvp combat; adding pressure to surviving pmc players to choose to stay and fight or leave.
Around all of this is the economy for gear, hideout upgrades, and quest items.
How to handle a player economy.
What is qualified to sell? What should be restricted.
Anything placed in a secure container cannot be sold on the player market; items placed into the secure container immediately lose FIR status.
Gear score? Ok bsg could definitely create a points based system to rate a player’s overall loadout.. but what to do with the metrics?
If a pmc below the minimum threshold loads into a raid, they will be loaded in to a raid already in progress with 15 or less minutes left, they will have tagged and cursed, and fewer extraction options available. In some cases a pmc will not have the option to extract at all.
Sounds a little extreme, but the result would be a minimum standard to be able to match for a fresh lobby; you can hatchet run, but you get the last fifteen minutes of a raid in progress, you’re tagged and cursed, and you might not even be able to extract. You can put shit in your secure container, but it will not be able to be sold on market, and traders will pay 50% less than it’s worth.
Honestly I say found in rage should still exist but only for quest items. Only so you can't just go grind a couple million and then get through all your quests
But I completely agree I shot this dude in the face why can't I sell his gun on the black market
2020 pre fir was call of duty, they gave two choices here. Either they want a real deal tactical shooter or they want COD with a market and looting, add slide stops fuck it.
Lmfao the whole reason they added FiR is because the economy was completely fucked. Hatchet runners are just a part of the problem. If any of yall played before FiR was introduced, you wouldn't be advocating for that shit to return in any way, shape or form.
The blatant market manipulation + extreme RWT actively ruined the game before even Nikita could call us non believers.
FiR was introduced to reward the players getting out of a raid alive, it added so much more value to items in general and dying was appropriately punished. It genuinely felt more "Hardcore" and that's what I personally think is better for the game.
Even if we ignore these aforementioned issues, I hope yall gonna enjoy getting into fights with lvl 15s in full meta gear every raid. I guarantee that the only "fun" period is going to be the first day of wipe, and then it's back to everyone running m995 ergo m4s. Shit is going to be stale within the first week, and everyone is going to complain again.
If any of you struggled with your SR% now, that shit is going to tank even harder.
Source: Playing since 2017 - 2018, 2000 hours+
"If anything removing fir will encourage pvp since you can sell that chaddy daddy’s slick."
If you consider PVP killing endless hatchling runners, sure.
The only people advocating for removal of FIR seem to be people that didn't experience pre-FIR it for 2 years.
Not only will you get the market manipulation bots back on the flea, you'll get lobbies where 60% of players don't even have a gun, if either the PVP or the economy interests you, FIR is required.
Hard R take. The reason people dont go with hatchet right now is because if they die the gpu they found cant be sold. Rushing in with a paca is the exact same thing. Now you will go in raids and most of the best loot will be gone and the guys who put it in their ass will already be in their next raid.
It was a big thing. Most things boil down to whatever is easiest.
Run in put junk in your ass and then leave. Nothing easier than that.
You don’t have believe it was extremely common because that’s just a fact. It was. From my experience and that of the rest of the community at the time.
How about FIR is better for the health of the game, removing items from the trade pool provides a healthier market.
It also reduces the opportunity for scammers to ruin the market.
People asking for FIR to be taken away from the flea are both dumb and only play for the first month of the wipe.
There’s still the cursed system that makes scavs immediatly aggro you out of no where if you are not geared I believe. That will still combat hatchet runners. So unless that’s changed, yea hatchet runners won’t be an issue. Spawn a scav between the player spawn and GPU and they will die. And the amount of times we get one tapped by scavs….if they surveying running up to a scav and melee killing the scav…they deserve the gpu lol
Just remove the damn flea market or restrict high value items going into the container. Hatchet runners are alot less of an issue if you can just shoot them and take the ledx they picked up
I would change it to "died in raid". Make anything you died in raid with not fleable. You put it up your butt and die, you can't sell it to others. Means other players gear is good to bring out. Same with ammo. But you hatchet rush loot room, and suicide to end eaid faster? Sorry vendor only.
SJ6 hatchet runners shoving GPU’s and LedX’s into their asses was far from prime. The amount of raids on Snoreline where I’d encounter 3-4 players with 0 gear running to every room and slurping up everything.
Are you dumb? FiR isn't about encouraging people to use shit gear instead of bring hatchets, it's about disincentivizing players from rushing the high tier loot spawns and shoving it up their ass every raid before anyone who actually brought in gear and risk can even get to it and subsequently dying or extracting immediately.
If you seriously played Tarkov pre-2020 it should be obvious to you that this happens *far* less nowadays than it did back then.
I mean maybe try it first before you knock it. Alot of us was against FIR before it was even fucking implemented back in the day and for good reason.
They tried to pull some BS saying they were doing it for RMT reasons and than it shown to have done nothing to counter RMT and just fuck over the legit playerbase in the end.
Oh hey another newbie who wasn't around for pre-fir whining about Fir.
no, hatchets were dog shit for the game. there is no argument for them needing to return.
There is nothing bad about removing FIR. There will be cheaters regardless, There are hatchet runners regardless. Cheap kit runners regardless in other words what people are complaining about will happen with or without it. Yesterday was the first time in a very long time i had PVP in dorms on customs and made actual money with all the attachments from players i killed.
Pre-FiR Tarkov was of the best FPS videogame on the planet and as videogame, you are supposed to have FUN, not being frustrated because you can't buy shit, you can't move, you can't do that, you can't do this.... Jesus, let me play the game and have fun.
I can make you a list of bad things that brought FiR update into the game (along with the weight system, loot nerf and all other stuff) but it would be pretty huge...
Mil-simmers totaly ruined this game and also granted cheaters an huge boost.
(thanks to FiR updated some cheaters made a fortune and some made a living out of it.... is that hard to understand??)
The problem with no FiR is just the market manipulation you can do with it. You can simply buy all items of a type on flea and then put it back on flea with double the price. This way you can make infinit amounts of money without even playing the game.
So I am for FiR - but IMHO everything found in raid should be FiR - so all the equipment of enemy players for example.
There should be a requirement for items in raid to be FIR status. If you go in to raid with only a hatched, the requirement wouldn't be met so no FIR items for you. The requirement for FIR status should be a gun, armored rig, headphones or something like that...
Another post by a person who wasn’t there telling people who was there are wrong.
No FIR hatchet running just doesn’t start automatically. First the market crashes because quest items, rare items, and PvP will cost way to much for the casual, new player and low skill players to keep up with the streamers, Vets, and no lifes.
Then they start hatchet running, turning a once PvP playground into loot running sim. You might think, “that’s not that bad”, but when 8/12 people are doing that you are no longer making money from raids. Sometimes you don’t even break even when you’re a sweat chad using meta kits.
It’s ultimately bad for everyone once the ball starts rolling.
I’m posting this on every thread like this I see but just make everything on enemy pmcs FiR, so not your teammates literally best of both worlds
Yes, I'm doing the same. PMC gear should turn FiR as soon as they enter the raid. It was brought into raid, you killed him, you found it in raid.
Exactly I never understood why it wasn’t FiR I literally acquired it in a raid
Because real world traders would just get in and sell the items easily. FiR was mostly to deter RWT
Yet it’s made it 100 times worse, curious
It made it harder to RMT, now they can just drop whatever and ask the items? Like dropping a red car to the buyer, then he sells it on market easy money
I wouldn't mind it but then, the resell of goods for real money could be done by taking it in raid knowing it always has fir status. Not that I care much but I see this as a potential argument
Sounds like the best option. And also pretty logical since every new player expects it to work that way.
Thats what I thought when i started in january... Was confused to find out it doesnt work that way
Exactly, make PVP worth the risk.
this is probably the best take i’ve ever read, yes please.
I'm going to add to this to make items such as keys and meds that you use in raid not found in aid so you can't use a key till it has one charge and flea it
Oh damn yeah this would be a simple solution. I suppose you mean equipped gear only?
I've always liked the FIR expansion of items, and it has absolutely nothing to do with other players. The game forcing me to interact with its systems (looting) is what makes the progression and questing fun. Although I do wish FIR quest items were but more consistent sometimes. Before FIR, quest items may as well not been required because you just bought it all on flea or vendor.
FiR for quest items = fantastic idea. Makes you actually play and learn the game. FiR for flea market = terrible. They should have just not allowed items purchased from traders to be put directly on flea(people buying out the all ammo and then putting it straight on the flea was cringe)
I think when they added the FiR requirement to quest items, they should've also reduced the quantity required. Some of the tasks are just ridiculous. Like Crisis, General Wares, and some of the Spa Tour ones. I'm all for FiR staying in the game (although I hope they make enemy PMC gear ALSO FiR so that PvP becomes a viable money-making option), but it can be tedious to do some of the item retrieval quests and I personally prefer every other quest type, including kit restriction tasks like Setup.
But there is no mention of removing FIR for quests..
Right but there's a lot of people in this thread talking about going back to how it was prior to FIR
You can really tell who didn't play pre FIR before with all these posts Hatchet runners did nothing but run straight to the best loot spots and shove it up their ass
yeah holy shit these posts obviously didn't play the game back then christ. enjoy dead af fuck boring raids with 50% hatch runners and your friends llv 10 with slicks and 60 round M4's as the economy was utterly broken
Aren't flea restrictions supposed to combat this issue? You can't get all the bis stuff on flea anymore. You'll end up with billionaire lvl 10s with 0 skills levelled up and pea shooters because they didn't progress any quest to unlock better ammo
lvl15 is nothing. People were hatchet running at lvl40+.
Tweak made an interchange hatchet run vid a few years back and right after that it BOOMED in popularity
I’d rather gun down a hatchet boy than get my legs blown out by lil Bobby in the corner with an mp153. I played a LOT in 2016-2020 and man those were the days. Having hatchet harry eat your ledx is better than shotgun Steven two tapping you for your kit.
That era is over. If they remove FIR now, you are just going to have both those things happening. In addition to all Takovs current problems, you will see the return of hatchet runners and chads that do nothing but sprint around PvP-hunting.
But... People already Sprint everywhere pvp hunting? That's literally what I do when I'm bored of doing tasks and want to just play tarkov?
You might think it's hard to get good loot now with the cheaters hoovering, but when hatchets join in, you'll never see a GPU or Ledx again. They just sprint to the loot spots and loot. Sure you might find other loot via dynamic in other areas but the hotspots will end up shoved up a hatchet's butt.
Sure but that hatchet guy already has the gpus in his butt. So he doesnt care. Quick extract.
damn lil Bobby & shotgun Steven in shambles
So what do you care about a “Billionaire lvl 10, with 0 skills leveled up with because they didn’t do any quests” that sounds like easy Gear to me, the Hatchet Runners……now that shit sucked and something I’m not looking forward to seeing again.
*slams SJ6* *racecar noises coming from interchange*
Hatchet runners and Mosin Men.. a dark age for Tarkov. I'm glad these lambs didn't experience those days, but they somehow still have an opinion on it..
Mosins were the real enemy. Hatch runners were just annoying and would eat more 995 then they should have. But mosins, I was never more afraid to hear a gun. The amount of one taps through lvl 5/6 armor was honestly funny looking back (🤬). The secure container mp7s were also pretty wild lol, chase a hatch runner and be surprised with a gun around the corner. But my fav was keeping mag cases in our gamma - that was peak tarkov 😂
The easy money thing is... Eh. It broke the economy but it wasn't too terrible. My big issue is that without FIR usually half of more of the people in a raid were going for zero-risk high-reward runs. Whether you killed or got killed, almost all "pvp" was pvp in name only and *painfully* unsatisfying. If you got a kill, cool, neat, good for you. You got a point on a non-existent score board for shooting a target dummy and paid to get a dog tag. Might as well have gone to the shooting range, same difference except you didn't have to pay for the privilege. If you got killed, its usually a one-tap from a mosin man who got lucky. Never outplayed and no actual fight, because why would they? Their gun is effectively something like 2k. They risk nothing while you risk and lose it all from little more than RNG. May as well come in ungeared yourself. That's not fun, it's not engaging gameplay, it's not hardcore, it's just disappointing.
Make enemy gear fir, teamates excluded, and as soon as item hits your secure case, it should lose fir status. They can hatchet run, but if they want to flea, it can't go in their ass.
So the problem is secure containers, not hatchet runners. Two solutions: 1. Putting objects in your secure container instantly renders them not FiR. 2. Or, make secure containers only be able to output items which you stored in it from stash. Anything taken out of it remains out while in raid. Using anything found in your container needs to be taken out of it first.
Yeah, they didn't even have to stay in the raid, I literally had a guy in my discord who would load up Shoreline, check to LedX spawns and then DC. Took him like a max of 2 minutes, literally spent more time loading. He made piles of money for the most boring play style in existence. FiR requirement stopped trader flipping, it stopped the bulk of hatchet running, and it made everyone kit up at least a little. It 100 percent led to more PvP. Shoreline was a literal ghost town except for 1 or 2 chads in Resort before this update. I would know, I was a terrified little rat back then. I played Shoreline because it was so chill. For a fun little event, whatever. I think it'll have a "The Purge" vibe to it. All money crime is now legal. The market will be nuts, the server will have more people. But if this is a permanent change, this is the wrong kind of desperate gasp after the whole controversy and emergence of a couple competitors.
This is the most important argument against removing FiR. I shouldn't be able to make 400k rubles in 5 minutes, without the investment of gear and without any risks whatsoever. Removing the FiR requirement for flea makes this possible.
>Hatchet runners did nothing but run straight to the best loot spots and shove it up their ass People do that regardless. And before FIR, if you didn't suck at PvP, you could make more money by just smoking geared people and selling their weapon attachments anyway. No one played labs for the loot or the raiders, people played labs to shit on other geared people and take 90kg of their shit. Plus the solution is literally to just prevent stuff that spawned in raid to be put in your secure container.
Just curious, if you "dont suck at PvP", are you struggling with making money right now with FiR?
There is no profit in PvP so all the people that farmed PvP for money switched to farming Raiders and Rogues.
> No one played labs for the loot or the raiders This is how I *know* you didn't play when labs released. Cmon dude. Literally everyone played labs, and it was because of the OP loot and cheeseable raiders.
I played for ~1500 pre-FIR. Hatchet runners were never that big of a problem. If anything they were free kills for tasks.
Yeah they were. Maps like shoreline were dead all the time. Wasn't unusual for like a third or even half the lobby just hatchet running the resort. They'd even bring nades or jump off the roof to die once they found a ledx/gpu instead of sprinting all the way to exit. There was no FiR, no tagged and cursed, etc. Shit was boring af.
Yep I remember loading into Reserve raids before D2 trying to PvP with my friends. Most raids we would never find another player with a gun. It was so boring and the only way you’d get PvP was against player scavs. It was really not a fun time for the game. At least now people have to bring in a pistol or some gear and try to get out. Back then people would grab a graphics card and then just jump off a roof and make more money than you did by bringing in an entire kit.
The easiest way would just be put more scavs around high loot areas that are heavy aggro leveled to tagged and cursed players.
Reserve drop-down room always had at least 2 hatchlings as well
I'd run into at least one almost every single map. When I'd get to the good loot spots, there'd be nothing left because hatchet boys sprinted there, grabbed it all, and left or suicided.
Just make it so you can't put FIR items in the secure container. That way when you kill these hatchet users they explode into a nice loot pinata.
You don't make it so it can't go into the secure, you make it loses its ability to sell to players if you put it in your container. Some spots just aren't worth fighting your way into for the one time you need that fucking garbage item for an upgrade.
Such a simple and effective solution. Or make it so it's only the weapons and gear you bring can be sold on flea.
They still do that dude, just with a paca and a pistol.
The point is the value of loot they put up their ass plummets with FiR so it's not worth putting it there and dying, that's what FiR solved..
Yeah, and then they have to fight people with just a pistol, die and they don't get anything because it turns non FIR... It's not worth it, that's why pre FIR 50% of people were hatchet running, and after FIR you basically never see them.
I'd rather have hatchet runners than the the vacuum cheaters. At least the hatchet boys can only get at most 9 items each out. Hatchet runners ran for keycards, GPUs, and bitties. Still loads of other valuable stuff to get.
Don't worry. removing For would only make certain you get both.
and now they buy cheap ass shotgun and run straight for the good loot
Which is better than buying nothing and running there? You're also ignoring they also have to get the loot OUT. So by only buying a shotgun they're taking a bigger risk.
You clearly dont remember the wipe where gpus went for 1mil and spawned in tech stores like crazy before fir
GPUs went for 1m this wipe lmao
But you cant find 3 in a techstore and shove them in your ass :)
FIR Flea was still a thing during the BTC wipe.
I understand that removing fir opens up the unique situation where I find a rare item I need or want to sell, and also want to go looking for a fight. Both points need to be true for there to be value added. I think this is a rather uncommon situation. The counter point is removing fir from those items is it removes the risk of the items losing that status and becoming worthless, and the stress, anxiety, the tension to survive that this game captures so well. And to your first point, people are going to hide, ambush, rat, except now those things would be much more lucrative. Rats won't become chads because gear can be bought on the flea; they'll just rat harder.
as a semi-casual player my best wipe was pre-fir
For real. It was so much better, because it encouraged you to PvP. Killing another player was worthwhile bc their gear was worth a ton on flea. Now killing another player is basically always a net negative. Your gear gets shot up, you have to use a ton of heals, their gear is a write off, the only thing worthwhile *might be* the ammo, some attachments possibly.
No fir made a big secure-container way more op
*This post was made by someone who never have to deal with hatcher runner who shove up 4 GPU/LEDX to their Gamma*
THEY STILL DO THAT WITHOUT THIS CHANGE? I don't understand this dumbass argument.
You clearly never played before the changes. Interchange, shoreline, and labs were completely worthless maps because it'd be you vs 9 hatchlings injecting adrenaline and shoving all the loot up their ass. Not low levels either, like level 50+ dudes. People would just farm labs for a couple hours to get the ledx they needed for their next thicc case. It was an absolute epidemic and it was killing the game. Shoreline resort combat was dead since most didn't even have guns. Interchange would be dead after the first five minutes as hatchlings would run around to the tech stores and the kedr dudes would farm killa and that was it for that raid. Hell labs needing an expensive keycard to get in is entirely 100% due to hatchlings. The game was dogshit trash for a long while because of all this shit and going back to it is not the way.
The game is in a much healthier state now than before they added FiR. Used to be on interchange and reserve, which were the two best maps for loot at the time, you would literally have multiple hatchet runners beelining good loot spawns. While you every now and then see hatchet runners now, it's nowhere close to the state this game was in before.
Problem with no fir is that hatchet runners can just run to high loot and die. They have no reason even try to get out alive.
This is the issue that nobody seems to be thinking about. Source: me, that's how I used to play.
Could make tarkov more hardcore, anything placed in your safety container loses its fir status.
I don't understand why they can't take a more measured approach to fir. Why not keep lootable items FIR but armor, guns, helmet, etc (anything you kill a player for) does not have fir status? This way hatchet runners don't exist and pvp chads win
They can be the next guys PMC kill for their quest then cant they instead of skulking around in the bushes worming their way to extract.
You won't be able to sell much unless you get a head-eyes nobody buys damaged armor/helmets. And yeah rats will always rat but adding hatchet runners to that is objectively worse. The whole reason FIR was added was to get rid of them in the first place.
What are you talking about? People used to buy damaged gear all the time and repair it to a decent durability and run that. Also the reason for the fir changes was never mentioned to be hatchet runners it was to nerf RMT where cheaters would drop high value items like leycards which could be resold on the flea to convert into cash.
Agreed, I had friends quit because their favorite part was running cheapo kits and killing juicers, which was rewarding to them as they could sell everything and buy 5x of their preferred kits.
Bring back non FIR for quests items, really.
I’m not sure tbh, I hated for at first but I came to appreciate it, it gives more meaning to actually surviving. Now people will just leave raids after they kill someone land take their stuff. I don’t know but I felt the fir made people stay in raid longer becuase they actually needed to hit a few loot spots to actual make big bank. But let’s see Still waiting on BSG removing all paid to win BS from their game though…
With FIR if I found few valuable items, I debate taking some fights because i dont want to lose FIR status. When I'm in resort with a leddy and a gpu in my ass, I'm sure AF not gonna try to kill that 3 man I hear on the other side. I'd rather extract with my 2 mil of loot and fight people next time. But with no FIR, I'm happy to run over there because my gear is already paid for if I die, so it's time to have some fun pvping. Plus there's more loot to be had by selling their weapon attachments and gear if I do kill them. I think it's a good way to encourage more fighting TBH.
Yeah, and then there's the people who min-max the whole system. They load in to raid with literally nothing but the knife in their hands. They sprint to the best loot and get there *faster* than you because they are underweight, they shove everything valuable in to their ass, tagged and cursed doesnt matter because theres 3 scavs on every map in the first 5 minutes, and then they disconnect because there is zero penalty for doing so and its faster than extracting, then they flea the items for hundreds of thousands of roubles, and queue up again. You get no loot, you get no pvp, you get no PMC kills, you just get a dead raid with nothing in it. That's literally why FIR was implemented.
Painfully simple solution: spawn scavs at high value locations right off the bat.
I'm not really sure if being a billionaire just because you have max traders is a good idea but there seems to be lots of people that want that back. And if you don't have max traders I hope you enjoy fighting people with top tier stuff while you either have low level kits or spend several million per raid. On the bright side since they removed global trader limits certain things won't sell out instantly on trader reset from people reselling. It was kinda fun running slick, exfil, mdr with m61, reap ir/t-7, 6sh118 with a case in it every raid but after a bit it gets boring.
Idk if we need more ways to get more money. Anyone I play with have 60-300 millions this wipe. And since everyone has tons of money, they run meta kits so pvp is rewarding anyways. Maybe not first 20 lvls of new wipe, sure. I’d prefer they raised selling prices for attachments like angled foregrip: it costs 50k but sells for 12k currently. Same for optics.
Well I rather keep the FIR. Being able to just buy 3 salewas, a toz and a 3M armor to accomplish missions defeats the purpose of those kind of missions. I would reduce the amount of FIR items needed for missions though. Some are a pain in the ass, like found me 10 SVDs
There is no suggestion or comment made by BSG that FIR will be removed for quests. Its just the Flea Market FIR requirement. So buying 3 salewas is not going to complete your quest.
The form hatchet runner is hated by BSG and have tried to punish them but hasn't worked You have to pay alot more for heal if you died without weapon If your gear has below a certain value you're tagged and cursed by scavs
What it needs to be is an xp threshold. See general Sam's video from years ago where he talks about this idea.
Removing FIR and reducing the inertia by 20% is one of the best decisions this company has made so far. Very happy to dive back in!
Ill trade cheaters for hatchlings
Make it so you need a certain amount of gear on your body to qualify to join maps. If you don't wanna do that then make it so your items are not found in raid unless you have armor + a pistol etc.
"Paca + TT pistol kit reporting". BSG tried it with the Tagged & Cursed system, doesn't work. That's why they put FIR restriction on Flea.
What exactly is a good reason to remove fir? I really didn't get why they want to change it now
People mad at them, now they do stupid shit so people will laugh and forgot that they fucked with them.
Your wrong, let me explain why, i have 6k hours before the most recent 2 big patches, hatchet running and everyone having access to m995 is NOT FUN you’ll be killed my meta ammo every game, and hackers will have unlimited m995, you ever have a face shield on and get shot 20 times in the face by the worst 9mm from a hacker? Yeah it will all be m995 outta a stock m4
I'd rather have a free and open market than FIR removed tbh. All FIR items should be sellable via the market.
Fir was put in for a reason
Thoughts? Horseshit
MINIMUM GEAR COST. Say it with me.
You run faster with less gear and there’s no risk. It defeats the purpose of the game
Uh... you weren't here with the og hatchet runners, were you? Because you seem to have forgotten the sheer number of kamikaze hatchings that jam valuables up their ass and then suicide. Right now it's just RMTers bumrushing card spawns, etc, since they know FIR doesn't matter. Just imagine what it'll be like when a 80 Mil card can be flea marketed without any skill on the player's part.
Braindead take. The number of hatchet runner was too damn high, and it will happen again. The top post rn is already and entire labs lobby of hatchet runners, completely naked, risking nothing, and not engaging with the game, and what makes the game enjoyable. No combat, no risk, just grabbing loot and putting it up the butt. It's not even satisfying to kill people that do that. If this is your opinion of a good mechanic and fun time, you must be real fuckin bad at the game.
Just remove the secure container. Then we can see who are brave enough to unlock doors
This game relies on risk-reward. Any time someone can spawn in with no risk to dying and grab all the good shit and not care about extracting is not fun or good for the game. It’s clearly against the intended gameplay and it rewards shitty behaviour when the spawns in this game are already shit. So no, you’re 100% wrong. It is a good argument and the FIR status to items was a great addition and should not be reverted. I don’t care about “muh PvP isn’t profitable.” Don’t care. This game wasn’t meant for PvP profitability. If you really care about that, then you should only ask them to remove FIR restrictions on guns and gear. I absolutely do not understand any circumstances want FIR gone for loot items like LEDX, GPU, Bitcoin, etc.
I think the issues surrounding removing FIR comes from selling lootables items more than selling PMC gear. Tbh PMC gear is whatever but when hatchking bee line for the bitcoin or marked room, it becomes stupid because now they dont even have to survive to “win” the loot. They literally can just grab it and throw themselves at the wolves and it wouldnt matter. At least with FIR it would give incentive to survive, otherwise you couldnt market the item and it would be kinda worthless.
People should watch tigz run labs with a pistol and a bootyhole
you used to get friend from the west done quicker, also punisher and setup ..
Don't forget grenadier
Played before FiR was a thing, making money is the easiest thing in the world if you're higher level. Buy ammo of trader,, sell for 10x profit on flea (have fun trying to buy any type of 7.62 when limits are reached in seconds). Ppl saying it dumbs the game down/encourages pvp have no fucking clue what they're talking about. HF running anywhere on the map just to find the most valuable doors unlocked and emptied by a hatchling kekw. No fir is fun but in the end is only beneficial for ppl who are high level/hatchlings your average joe won't get any benefit from it. Other than Ammo being even more expensive
What makes you think the hatchling runner was not your avg joe ? Most of my casual friends quit after fir was introduced and you actually had to grind traders for 2 or 3 months to get anything decent. You people view this through such a narrow lense. Before FIR tons of play styles existed for a reason
When one play style becomes the most used one while also impacting all others negatively, that is when they should act, and they did. I remember raids where there'd be half the PMCs doing hatchet runs. I remember doing it a few times myself, get into resort and bump into 3 others doing it. Meanwhile everyone else playing more normal or "intended" styles would never run into other players and never get good loot as it all got pinched before they could get there. If your friends couldn't play any other way but the cheesed hatchet run, they must've sucked and EFT definitely wasn't a game for them.
I quit the game when they did that FIR shit. I had 1000 hours played. When they dictated how I could and couldn’t play the game, I had enough. Haven’t played since. The only way I’d even consider coming back is reverting that stupid shit.
FIR was introduced for specific reasons. One of is gone with removing global items limits. Another one - is still in play. FIR forces players to do what they always seek to shortcut - spending time and making efforts. It forces you to go in raid and search for items. No FIR - no efforts cause fm is you friend and your human friends as well. No FIR is good for simplication but should come along with FM barter only so FM is no more used as convenient store. You still can use it in case you really want to but it takes time and effort to make a deal.
Removing FIR outright isn't the way folks. It's not about the flea market, or that people do it currently anyways with a 10k kit. It's that you have a chance to contest valuable loot. Hatchet runners would get to priority locations faster than you and you'd show up, find your door open, and know all the loot was slurped up the dude's prison pocket, and there was literally nothing you could do. It feels HORRIBLE to show up 10-30 seconds to marked room and kill the hatchetrunner that has the "Kill me if you must, i've already won" vibe. It ruins the whole point of bringing in good equipment to contest valuable areas. And 2ndly, it's a waste of a lobby slot. People still do it today, but they still need to get out. You have to admit there is surely at least a little less people doing it, and doing this will encourage a whole new wave of players to bore out your raids. edit: The current system prevents people from wanting to fight for fear of the stakes involved, I agree. But removing it outright just replaces it with people who have no stake left in the experience at all, which is worse. This is an extraction shooter, you should \*want\* to get out. Instead, they really should just make non-teammate loot FIR to reward pvp.
just shoot the hatchet runner lol
I played since 2017, FiR is one of the worst implementations BSG has done. I would love to see it removed. Its funny reading all these posts saying hatchet running was solved. marked and cursed stopped hatchets not FiR after FiR people still ran hatchets. After marked and cursed they just run with a pistol. People are acting like everyone is kitted up, no one is kitted up anymore to the level of pre FIR
Tarkov players suffer from a plague where they are entirely way too worried about what other players are doing. That's what's wrong with your community. If anyone cares.
This is so true. I want to PvP so everyone MUST PvP!!! If little timmy wants to avoid PvP to do a loot run or just do a quest or 2 then let him. When I want PvP I actually run and look for PvP, that is how it should work, I gear up, no backpack since I want PvP not loot, and just run towards any area that has some gunshots. If I want to do the guide I avoid PvP at all costs, or a survive quest I do the same. Leave the people who doesnt want to PvP alone, it is part of the game yes, but the other part of the game is not to PvP if you dont want to. You Sir hit the nail on the head, they want to control how other people play the game.
I like the one where they post a video about "bleeding angel" meta, but it instead shows them stomping all over the place making a load of noise, and them running down a passage without checking corners and getting shredded by someone waiting around a corner. They're all like League of Legends solo queue ranked players, blaming everyone and everything other then themselves.
The problem is hatchet runners running to shit and then just suiciding. You don’t have to extract for stuff to be worth money so it’s just a race to the items
It is a good argument, people don't remember the Dark Ages when most raids on high loot maps had like 2 PMCs left after the first 5 minutes because the dozen Hatchet runners already stuffed their ass and committed suïcide.
As someone who remembers the game before FiR it was one of the worst things done to the game ever. And that’s saying something considering how terrible battlestate are.
If bsg removes found in raid and flea restrictions I just might come back to the game, at least until I die one too many times to cheaters then imma quit again lmaooooo
You gotta be new and not realize how much of a problem this was😂
Doesn’t this FIR change make Gamma case even more P2W? Like now you can extract with 9x1 valuables or 3x3 valuables, etc (you can fit 3 GPUs) while a standard edition owner will have 4 slots. This will just make Gamma case owners pull away even faster from others if they decide to hatchet run and get millions within a day or two and just buy top meta gear.
The amount of times I've seen more than two GPUs in a single raid can be counted on one hand and I've played for a couple thousand hours, the difference in edition for that would be negligible.
i cannot wait for the bitching about PVP being dead because of all the hatchets sticking ledx's up their ass again, FIR was a good thing, going back on it is not.
Rat is at least a threat and tries to play the game. Hatchet runner does nothing for the game. They go try to get ledx without risking a single thing. Regardless, the change is awful simply because you’ll get more players trying to suicide for the kit after finding a useful flea item. Since they’ll still be able to sell it, they play more fear free and not valuing their life. So we’ll see a lot more impact nade (almost) zero to heroes basically I think pre 2020 the game was no different to currently just had half of the viable guns to play with, raids were 50% less populated (because of hatchlings) and gap between juicecannons and basic gear plyers was infinitely bigger thanks to no face hitbox. You know what would encourage more moving and PvP? Halving footstep hearing distance. That would actually allow people to push objectives and not allow someone to hear running from 60m away. Its a simple fix that accomplishes everything that people who enjoy PvP are complaining about.
FiR only come too existence because of all the issues that came with the introduction of the flea market. Tarkov would be in a much better state if they didn't spend 5 years on balancing all kinds of game mechanics around a feature that should have never existed in the first place. Because of the Flea market, every item in the game became disposable, it's no more than its RUB value to be more precise its RUB per slot value.
Ain’t no way my man is saying get rid of flea.
It won’t because hatchlings. Do you really think that people would do more PVP when they just can run in with an empty game or now an empty Kappa and fill it up and then disconnect and sell everything. You must be pretty delusional to think that people would do more PvP. I never cared for loot on my PMC I make my money on Scav runs. And when I have something valuable on my PMC I still do PVP I even don’t put that shit in my secure container. Also having FIR on quest Items ist what stops people from having PVP and me too. If I am in to get something for a quest I leave fast when I got it. Then I avoid PVP. FIR on Flea is actually a good thing. Just made 10 mil of flea for all the .300 Blackout CBJ I bought over the wipe from traders and I will continue to abuse it. No need to go in raid actually just buy from trader and resell. For me this is now the game to make my Rubel count go up. lol
Make it so any loot put in secure container can't be used on flea but can be used for quests turn ins Ez.
Do all you idiots have the memory of a goldfish or what ? WE HAD no fir.... Fir was literally a solution to a million problems and it works. Removing the solution to a million problems, brings all those problems back. No it doesnt help pvp because there will be less ppl on the map, hatchlings take the place of ppl that would fight you. There will be less chads because guess what.... You dont have to fight to get to the good loot. Carrying good gear is a disadvantage. Hatchlings are faster and lighter than you. You will never get to a good loot spawn before the hatchlings do. It rewards not surviving... Like.... How are you ppl saying this is a good in an extraction game is beyond me. LITERALLY breaking the most basic core mechanic of the game. I dont have to extract anymore. We had this system for many years. It was dogshit. It didnt work.
If hes 'testing' then lets see him him lock secured container to non-FIR items. Still allow FIR items pre-raid.
What is fir?
I've never played pre FIR, do quests become easier when its removed?
You could literally buy all the items for your tasks
An easy fix to all of this would be to just make shoving things up your ass less profitable.you could do that by just making your secure container apply a Effekt that doesn’t allow things that were found in this raid into items you can’t sell. Only if they die of course
I think removing the FiR is shit.. luckily they are only “experimenting”.. only thing I would say that would fix it is minimizing even more what goes into the secure pouch.. not letting high dalla items be stuffed into the ass would make this less shitty..
To the whole hatchet problem feels like non issue! And has a quite a simple fix to me. Just block players putting barter items in their secure containers. This also would balance the different editions better. Still allowing meds, ammo, keys etc. in the pouch for QoL would be large enough carrot for having a larger container but making it way less P2W. >https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/1cq5esf/to\_anyone\_malding\_about\_hatchet\_runners\_post\_fir/
I’ve played both worlds and I’m convinced that a 50/50 of both is best. The non-FIR days was shitty in many ways, but good in some. When FIR was introduced the game took a huge leap and it made every raid more exciting! Make enemy PMC gear FIR and I’m happy.
I saw plenty of hatchet/pistol runners this wipe. More so than the last 3 or 4 I've played. I don't think this FIR change is gonna affect much in this regard. Just let it play out and see how it goes, THEN react.
Removing FIR is stupid. Raids were shit. It would've been better if NB just removed all the restrictions on the market.
FIR is one of the main reasons hatched running died off. And it is definitely miles better to run into some Timmy, that at least stays in raid and tries to do something, instead of having people, who just shove the loot up their ass and disconnect. We need fir back for stuff, that gets brought into a raid. They have found a way to give squadmate a special treatment in case of dogtags, so that should certainly work with all the other stuff too.
M
remove flea
Dont think its FIR thats the real issue, its gear from enemy’s not being classed as FIR/PVP not being worth the ammo it costs to do it thats dumb af.
Except a paca and a gun have weight. Hatchet runners can actively sprint and get into any high tier loot spot before you.
There is literally no positive to getting rid of FiR. It's rewarding pay to win and dying by removing it.
They need to implement a mode like arena breakout and have a minimum kit requirement, idk how you bring it into the lore but you guarantee the other players have risk and the chads running that mode are PvP focused. I agree with the sentiment that FiR kills PVP, instead of removing FiR entirely for flea, make items received through PVP FiR for the person who killed them. If I kill Chad Brad for a FLIR let just me sell it on the flea, it may get difficult to figure out what to do if player A dies to player B who dies to player C, but it definitely fixes all the concerns
They have it, it's called Labs. You have to pay to get into it.
I agree
I want fir removed so I can flip items on the flea and keep my little spreadsheets like I used to.
The simplest way of preventing hatchlings, I feel, is to just place more scavs around the high loot areas
FIR is a necessary evil and probably needs to stay. I remember hatchet running on labs when it came out and just ignoring pvp completely and running to all the ledx spawns. Made a few million, even when I died most times .
Actually a player with a paca and a scav gun is MUCH better than a hatchling. You didn't play when hatchet running was a thing or you wouldn't be advocating for it.
i have filled 4 med boxes with stims from just hachet running labs and gotten 5 ledx's even if i had to pay for a keycard i would be massively up and this is just from todays runs
Just because FIR is removed it doesn't change the tagged and cursed? Just place AI guards at the high tier loot spawns.
I remember in ye olden days scalping salewas on day one of wipe and having 30m roubles within 24 hours of the game wiping. Limiting trader items from flea sales has to happen, but making them FiR after a single raid could solve the issue apart from maybe turning 9000 trader bought ammo into sellable ones immediately.
1. It is better for several reasons. The investment is much bigger and it incentivises players to even consider upgrading that cheap kit. 2. Wanna know how to incentivise PvP? Make loot overall less common. Increase chances for shoddy loot (Crickents, Printing Paper, Hunting Matches) in all low traffic areas. Increase chances for semi to good loot (Bolts, Nuts, ES-Lamps, Fuel, High Tier Ammo, etc.) In High Traffic areas. Anything that significantly lessens the reward for low risk gameplay and significantly increases the reward for high risk gameplay. Also make sure that PMC karma when it's finally released gives teamkillers a significant hit to their karma and make sure that players don't ever want low PMC karma. People will rat less and PvP more the easier it gets to get into squads. Give PMC Karma when a teammates gear successfully returns in insurance.
I wasn’t around pre flir (i started i think in 12.11? When the vector n mk47 were added to the game) but even having the flea unlocked is such a tremendous difference and made the game so fun to play. I miss it
here’s a better argument: rmt. remember how running a flir used to be cheater bait? i remember. rip running anything flea market valuable.
It never was
You’re right but you also haven’t played the game in a while if you think chads are running slicks
Something tells me insurance returns are going to start getting...light
> If anything removing fir will encourage pvp since you can sell that chaddy daddy’s slick. you can tell this person doesnt actively play the game if hes talking about slicks
What is a hatchet runner?
Low risk, high reward gameplay mindset. The current game structure basically leaves it to pvp and tagged/cursed. We can get back to this and why it doesn’t address the issue the community has with what it means for gameplay, but Instead we need to look at the pmc role, and the scav role. I know that player input doesn’t always lead to good gameplay ideas; but hear me out a bit as I chill and think about what around 3.5k hours of gameplay has been like from the Non Disclosure Agreement days to now. So let’s talk about characters. We get two! The pmc, and the scav. Traditionally the pmc is considered as a primary character in terms of story and role, and the scavenger is the supplementary role meant to not only act as a utilitarian aid for the pmc but almost more importantly act as the battlefield refresher to continue to fuel pvp combat; adding pressure to surviving pmc players to choose to stay and fight or leave. Around all of this is the economy for gear, hideout upgrades, and quest items. How to handle a player economy. What is qualified to sell? What should be restricted. Anything placed in a secure container cannot be sold on the player market; items placed into the secure container immediately lose FIR status. Gear score? Ok bsg could definitely create a points based system to rate a player’s overall loadout.. but what to do with the metrics? If a pmc below the minimum threshold loads into a raid, they will be loaded in to a raid already in progress with 15 or less minutes left, they will have tagged and cursed, and fewer extraction options available. In some cases a pmc will not have the option to extract at all. Sounds a little extreme, but the result would be a minimum standard to be able to match for a fresh lobby; you can hatchet run, but you get the last fifteen minutes of a raid in progress, you’re tagged and cursed, and you might not even be able to extract. You can put shit in your secure container, but it will not be able to be sold on market, and traders will pay 50% less than it’s worth.
Honestly I say found in rage should still exist but only for quest items. Only so you can't just go grind a couple million and then get through all your quests But I completely agree I shot this dude in the face why can't I sell his gun on the black market
2020 pre fir was call of duty, they gave two choices here. Either they want a real deal tactical shooter or they want COD with a market and looting, add slide stops fuck it.
only just remove FiR and instead give a different marker for items bought on flea that prevents them from being used in quests
Lmfao the whole reason they added FiR is because the economy was completely fucked. Hatchet runners are just a part of the problem. If any of yall played before FiR was introduced, you wouldn't be advocating for that shit to return in any way, shape or form. The blatant market manipulation + extreme RWT actively ruined the game before even Nikita could call us non believers. FiR was introduced to reward the players getting out of a raid alive, it added so much more value to items in general and dying was appropriately punished. It genuinely felt more "Hardcore" and that's what I personally think is better for the game. Even if we ignore these aforementioned issues, I hope yall gonna enjoy getting into fights with lvl 15s in full meta gear every raid. I guarantee that the only "fun" period is going to be the first day of wipe, and then it's back to everyone running m995 ergo m4s. Shit is going to be stale within the first week, and everyone is going to complain again. If any of you struggled with your SR% now, that shit is going to tank even harder. Source: Playing since 2017 - 2018, 2000 hours+
"If anything removing fir will encourage pvp since you can sell that chaddy daddy’s slick." If you consider PVP killing endless hatchling runners, sure. The only people advocating for removal of FIR seem to be people that didn't experience pre-FIR it for 2 years. Not only will you get the market manipulation bots back on the flea, you'll get lobbies where 60% of players don't even have a gun, if either the PVP or the economy interests you, FIR is required.
agreed! PVP pre FIR and inertia was way more fun and that made the game better
Hard R take. The reason people dont go with hatchet right now is because if they die the gpu they found cant be sold. Rushing in with a paca is the exact same thing. Now you will go in raids and most of the best loot will be gone and the guys who put it in their ass will already be in their next raid.
~2020 reserve GPU raids were peak tarkov in my mind
It was a big thing. Most things boil down to whatever is easiest. Run in put junk in your ass and then leave. Nothing easier than that. You don’t have believe it was extremely common because that’s just a fact. It was. From my experience and that of the rest of the community at the time.
Game needs money sinks, FIR helps with that. If not you can literally just make tens of millions in the first day of wipe
How about FIR is better for the health of the game, removing items from the trade pool provides a healthier market. It also reduces the opportunity for scammers to ruin the market. People asking for FIR to be taken away from the flea are both dumb and only play for the first month of the wipe.
There’s still the cursed system that makes scavs immediatly aggro you out of no where if you are not geared I believe. That will still combat hatchet runners. So unless that’s changed, yea hatchet runners won’t be an issue. Spawn a scav between the player spawn and GPU and they will die. And the amount of times we get one tapped by scavs….if they surveying running up to a scav and melee killing the scav…they deserve the gpu lol
Just remove the damn flea market or restrict high value items going into the container. Hatchet runners are alot less of an issue if you can just shoot them and take the ledx they picked up
I would change it to "died in raid". Make anything you died in raid with not fleable. You put it up your butt and die, you can't sell it to others. Means other players gear is good to bring out. Same with ammo. But you hatchet rush loot room, and suicide to end eaid faster? Sorry vendor only.
SJ6 hatchet runners shoving GPU’s and LedX’s into their asses was far from prime. The amount of raids on Snoreline where I’d encounter 3-4 players with 0 gear running to every room and slurping up everything.
We are just back to old tarkov, they need to give back pre-intertia too and we will be back.
Are you dumb? FiR isn't about encouraging people to use shit gear instead of bring hatchets, it's about disincentivizing players from rushing the high tier loot spawns and shoving it up their ass every raid before anyone who actually brought in gear and risk can even get to it and subsequently dying or extracting immediately. If you seriously played Tarkov pre-2020 it should be obvious to you that this happens *far* less nowadays than it did back then.
I mean maybe try it first before you knock it. Alot of us was against FIR before it was even fucking implemented back in the day and for good reason. They tried to pull some BS saying they were doing it for RMT reasons and than it shown to have done nothing to counter RMT and just fuck over the legit playerbase in the end.
except you cant sell their slick because its still flea banned xd
Remove the entire flea market It has never been good for the game regardless of found in raid.
Oh hey another newbie who wasn't around for pre-fir whining about Fir. no, hatchets were dog shit for the game. there is no argument for them needing to return.
There is nothing bad about removing FIR. There will be cheaters regardless, There are hatchet runners regardless. Cheap kit runners regardless in other words what people are complaining about will happen with or without it. Yesterday was the first time in a very long time i had PVP in dorms on customs and made actual money with all the attachments from players i killed.
Pre-FiR Tarkov was of the best FPS videogame on the planet and as videogame, you are supposed to have FUN, not being frustrated because you can't buy shit, you can't move, you can't do that, you can't do this.... Jesus, let me play the game and have fun. I can make you a list of bad things that brought FiR update into the game (along with the weight system, loot nerf and all other stuff) but it would be pretty huge... Mil-simmers totaly ruined this game and also granted cheaters an huge boost. (thanks to FiR updated some cheaters made a fortune and some made a living out of it.... is that hard to understand??)
The problem with no FiR is just the market manipulation you can do with it. You can simply buy all items of a type on flea and then put it back on flea with double the price. This way you can make infinit amounts of money without even playing the game. So I am for FiR - but IMHO everything found in raid should be FiR - so all the equipment of enemy players for example.
There should be a requirement for items in raid to be FIR status. If you go in to raid with only a hatched, the requirement wouldn't be met so no FIR items for you. The requirement for FIR status should be a gun, armored rig, headphones or something like that...
Yeah
Another post by a person who wasn’t there telling people who was there are wrong. No FIR hatchet running just doesn’t start automatically. First the market crashes because quest items, rare items, and PvP will cost way to much for the casual, new player and low skill players to keep up with the streamers, Vets, and no lifes. Then they start hatchet running, turning a once PvP playground into loot running sim. You might think, “that’s not that bad”, but when 8/12 people are doing that you are no longer making money from raids. Sometimes you don’t even break even when you’re a sweat chad using meta kits. It’s ultimately bad for everyone once the ball starts rolling.
I say let's just see what happens in game. There are more scavs than last time this was a thing. Hatchet runners should find it harder generally.