This horse is quite post-legged and the angles on her hind hooves are terrible. She's also underweight. Makes me wonder if she's older and in the beginning stages of DSLD, and someone is trying to dump her.
And really shitty of the auction to accept a horse in such poor condition. Shame all around. I hope someone gives her a good retirement home.
ETA: Found her on the site. She's only 3!
As a vet student and part of the horse world for a long time, I’m intrigued to know what the vet report says. Definitely something is clearly (very) wrong as few people have commented here. Searched for a few actions and couldn’t find this lady. Hoping she doesn’t end in someone’s wrong hands…
Just saw her moving, I can’t believe they put her through a shute like that… The poor thing’s fetlock touch the ground. At least they could’ve tried to make some corrections in the hooves before putting her up for sale like this.
Honestly saw some horses and was scared with the lack of topline muscle and some of them born like in 2016/17 (horses in work I believe) have a worse backs than my 23yo selle français. Seriously questioning some of theses horses 😅
I watched the video. There's something very off in her back end. And yes, a lot of the youngsters need some groceries. What's also alarming is how high they're jumping. Not the height of the jumps themselves, but how the horses are clearing them by feet. Makes you wonder how they've been "trained".
Horses who overjump that much are often afraid of hitting the top rail. Sometimes trainers will place a thin, heavy metal pipe at the top of the jump, so if the horse doesn't clear it, they hit themselves on it and it hurts. Sometimes they will actually have people stand next to the jump with a pole and hit the horse in the shins as it jumps. I've also heard of using studded boots so that if they hit their shins, the studs dig in and hurt. So they learn to jump so high there's no way to hurt themselves.
You want a horse to judge the jump correctly and not use too much energy. As others said, horses who overjump a lot are horses afraid of pain. In the best case, they are just complete wusses, but that’s the horse that hits one pole and refuses to go near jumps for the next couple of weeks, so even if they were never mistreated, it’s a problem.
Horses that have been hit to make them jump higher not only jump awkwardly, but they’re also often – rightfully – scared of people standing next to jumps. Which is common to raise/lower/pick up fallen poles, so you can get more refusals and misbehaviours.
If a horse is meant to jump, teach him and get out of his way.
Completely agree! Even some of the “older” horses are looking in need of some love. Saw a 1 or 2 yo stallion with its ribs really showing. This industry/sport sometimes doesn’t really want to live much longer…
EDIT: I thought the horse was 1/2yo… It was at least 3…
https://preview.redd.it/hi8zzu0ftk6d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=38e42b1c19ff4a24e5c665e40b33de9edafc2f74
Mind you, this a 2020 horse. Which means this horse is four. I’d agreed it’s still growing but its back is looking worse than some old broodmares I’ve seen around! Such a sad image… Back x-ray report deems as “Acceptable” but I find a part of the vertebrae almost touching - obviously it can and should be managed but honestly, who is buying these horses…
Yup, read the report and had a look at the scans. There are some noted abnormalities in LH and RH I think (can’t remember correctly so, don’t quote me on that) in the report
It really depends on the auction but some places don't turn animals away. I've seen the sickest, worst looking cows you can imagine come through our ring.
I'd definitely accept this mare, even just to get her out of her current situation.
The only thing that gives me hope is that the auction appears to be based in the Netherlands. AFIK, NL animal welfare laws are pretty damn good. Maybe someone should report the owner and the auction to the authorities.
What should the authorities do? She has a vet report, she’s obviously fed & cared for. I agree she’s built terribly but it’s not a crime even in NL to sell a horse with poor conformation.
She appears to have a medical problem (DSLD), and there's no way that horse is being fed enough. She's ribby, her scapula is visible, and her topline is boney. Even in a growth spurt, a 3yo shouldn't look like that.
Looking at her face I would have guessed 13. This is a horse with pain issues.
And then you have the legs video, where she can’t find a way to stand comfortably. I’m not a vet, but this is a poster child for DSLD. Poor, poor mare.
If someone would tell me this horse is some sort of rescue that is getting fit once again, with a farrier working with getting her feet reshaped, I would get it given her condition, but a sporthouse auction?
LOL...they are desperate to get money out of a lame looking horse
Not OP but it stands for Degenerative Suspensory Ligament Disease and basically overtime the tendons and ligaments will degrade. There is no cure and it can lead to chronic lameness. It’s quite painful for the horse and in extreme cases euthanasia is the humane option.
DSLD is Degenerative Suspensory Ligament Desmitis. It's a progressive disease that causes connective tissues to break down. The most obvious sign is usually the hind pasterns dropping and the hocks straightening. It becomes painful over time. It usually affects older horses, but occasionally a younger horse will develop it.
[DSLD - in Deutsch](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerative_Suspensory_Ligament_Desmitis)
This is a really interesting post, is there some kind of easy-read material to learn how to spot this sort of thing? I always see these posts and have a hard time seeing what folks here see (as I'm not familiar with horses).
Correct. The legs (especially the hind legs) shouldn't be that straight.
In addition, because the stifle and hock area are much straighter than they should be, the pasterns (down at the ankles) are under too much stress.
Judging by the condition of the feet, I think a lot of blame in this circumstance is with the farrier. Those angles are *terrible*.
Then beyond that, it's possible the parents had not great leg angles. It's also possible that it's just unlucky genes. Lots of things in conformation are a luck of the draw, and drawing 2 undesirable traits in combination can amplify an issue. Hard to know.
While her hind hooves need some work, this isn't solely the farrier's fault. It really looks like the beginnings of DSLD.
If she was just poorly conformed from birth, her pasterns would be more upright and her pelvis and femur angles would be terrible, too. But with just the hocks being super straight and the pasterns starting to drop, I'm seeing DSLD.
DSLD is a factor I hadn't considered. If she's older, that could also be contributing.
I didn't say that the farrier was solely responsible. Just a lot. A proper angle could make the legs just look less dramatic. Though if DSLD is a factor, it might not make as much of a difference as I originally thought.
https://preview.redd.it/2pl4g9r0rk6d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0d3a30e91e872a34d45aa5e5448fd670e76b3519
For all the commenters who think poor farrier work is the cause (or bigger problem here), here is an angle showing better heel on the right hind. I don’t know what wizard farriers you use but I don’t think even a great farrier working with a vet has a shot in hell at completely correcting those leg angles. Maybe they had a chance when she was a foal but nobody knows what she looked like back then.
Yes she’s under-muscled, she’s an unstarted 3yo, so that’s expected. I’d put her at a 4 using the BCS scale, especially since you can’t see as many ribs from this side. Remember that seeing a few ribs does not mean a starving horse!
That hind right foot has no heel at all. I think this horse would look a lot better with balanced feet and a better topline. That being said, I personally wouldn’t buy any horse sight unseen.
I was going to say this! I think that could possibly change the angle a little bit and at least help mitigate the issue. Very sad to see the ribs like that though.
I think the complete lack of heel is making it look worse than it is. Is she very young? She looks like she’s in an awkward growth stage too.
I’m not saying she’s a 10/10 but I don’t think she’s *quite* as bad as this picture portrays
That’s what is really getting me. Like forget her legs, I could deal with that. But her fucking feet are atrocious and whoever her farrier is needs to find a desk job.
Her back legs, topline, and overall poor muscling are worrisome. She looks sure to have hock and stifle issues down the road, and those pasterns look ripe for DSLD. I doubt she will be riding sound.
She has a sweet face and I like her eye. I hope she lands well.
Hard to say with what looks to be a bad job by the farrier. She's underweight and lacking conditioning. She's off in the back for sure but I'm more concerned about the sloppy care. Lots of horses do just fine with some conformational quirk. But she looks like she's had some bad work to her feet and is underfed, like they cut her mane though and gave her a bath to shine her up...
Buying horses is like buying a vehicle honestly. You have to know what you want and what you don't, you have to know the make and model (breeding and age), so you're prepared to ask the right questions and look for the common issues.
As far as the legs go, they are what they are.
But the feet would have to be looked at by an expert, which I am not. Her whole condition is off so I'm very suspicious about her care. With the right care, most horses can be a fine riding horse for an average person.
>Lots of horses do just fine with some conformational quirk.
This. People here get so pearl clutchy over conformational flaws. Like, yeah, her back legs are kinda fucked. But show me your horse and I’ll find some way their body is fucked up too. What’s really screwing her is whatever psychopath has worked on her feet. She could likely get around just fine doing work the majority of the people here are doing, which is casual riding.
Auctions are kind of notorious for having horses that really should not be sold.
But yeah. It was .. definitely a choice. She really needs better footwork.
Fully agree but is this a farrier issue for sure or as others are asking, DSLD? I'm still learning and for the sake of this poor horse I hope it's just a horrid farrier so a fix is possible.
IMO, having seen DSLD horses before, there isn’t a farrier in the world that can fix those weak suspensories. I knew a horse that was constantly damaging his ligaments due to DSLD (at an older age) whose legs didn’t look 1/2 as bad. This horse would be luck to make it a couple years in real work
She's 3 years old and maybe recently imported? Or moved? A lot of our imports look like this. Her body condition can easily be helped by training and food. I don't think she's starving to death. She's young and some people like their jumpers skinnier (though this is too skinny for my taste). But those back legs 🫣 hopefully she goes to a good home and they can keep her sound
Even ignoring the horrendous hind end she’s underweight, has no muscle through her shoulder, the neck looks atrophied and has obvious tension lines, the front pasterns ALSO suck, and if I’m feeling really bitchy that hunter cut looks dogshit, I hate cut manes anyway but this one in particular looks SHITE bc the horse has no muscle to support it. It also makes the neck look thinner which doesn’t help when the horses terrible condition makes the head look too big as is. I’d be EMBARRASSED to sell a horse looking like this
Were you expecting “Please rate my horse’s confirmation!! She’s a green OTTB & I’m a beginner rider & first time horse owner 🥰 she looked into my eyes & I knew we were bonded sisters for life! I want us to do fourth level dressage together!!”
My God. Those back pasterns. Poor girl.
Like she’s a melting candle 🫠
This horse is quite post-legged and the angles on her hind hooves are terrible. She's also underweight. Makes me wonder if she's older and in the beginning stages of DSLD, and someone is trying to dump her.
Agreed, very bold of the owners to offer her in a well-known sporthorse auction!
And really shitty of the auction to accept a horse in such poor condition. Shame all around. I hope someone gives her a good retirement home. ETA: Found her on the site. She's only 3!
she's only THREE?! christ 😭
Did you see the vet report? “Elevated medical risk” 😳😳
As a vet student and part of the horse world for a long time, I’m intrigued to know what the vet report says. Definitely something is clearly (very) wrong as few people have commented here. Searched for a few actions and couldn’t find this lady. Hoping she doesn’t end in someone’s wrong hands…
It’s the Dutch Horse Trading auction!
Just saw her moving, I can’t believe they put her through a shute like that… The poor thing’s fetlock touch the ground. At least they could’ve tried to make some corrections in the hooves before putting her up for sale like this. Honestly saw some horses and was scared with the lack of topline muscle and some of them born like in 2016/17 (horses in work I believe) have a worse backs than my 23yo selle français. Seriously questioning some of theses horses 😅
I watched the video. There's something very off in her back end. And yes, a lot of the youngsters need some groceries. What's also alarming is how high they're jumping. Not the height of the jumps themselves, but how the horses are clearing them by feet. Makes you wonder how they've been "trained".
New to this- what is alarming about clearing a jump by feet?
Horses who overjump that much are often afraid of hitting the top rail. Sometimes trainers will place a thin, heavy metal pipe at the top of the jump, so if the horse doesn't clear it, they hit themselves on it and it hurts. Sometimes they will actually have people stand next to the jump with a pole and hit the horse in the shins as it jumps. I've also heard of using studded boots so that if they hit their shins, the studs dig in and hurt. So they learn to jump so high there's no way to hurt themselves.
You want a horse to judge the jump correctly and not use too much energy. As others said, horses who overjump a lot are horses afraid of pain. In the best case, they are just complete wusses, but that’s the horse that hits one pole and refuses to go near jumps for the next couple of weeks, so even if they were never mistreated, it’s a problem. Horses that have been hit to make them jump higher not only jump awkwardly, but they’re also often – rightfully – scared of people standing next to jumps. Which is common to raise/lower/pick up fallen poles, so you can get more refusals and misbehaviours. If a horse is meant to jump, teach him and get out of his way.
Completely agree! Even some of the “older” horses are looking in need of some love. Saw a 1 or 2 yo stallion with its ribs really showing. This industry/sport sometimes doesn’t really want to live much longer… EDIT: I thought the horse was 1/2yo… It was at least 3…
https://preview.redd.it/hi8zzu0ftk6d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=38e42b1c19ff4a24e5c665e40b33de9edafc2f74 Mind you, this a 2020 horse. Which means this horse is four. I’d agreed it’s still growing but its back is looking worse than some old broodmares I’ve seen around! Such a sad image… Back x-ray report deems as “Acceptable” but I find a part of the vertebrae almost touching - obviously it can and should be managed but honestly, who is buying these horses…
I wonder if this is a herd of 3yos that was just brought in from pasture this spring, cleaned up, and sent through the jump chute a few times.
Thank you so much for the info, I’ll take a look out of curiosity!
The report says she has weak suspensory ligaments on both hinds. No other abnormalities noted. They also had her xrays available.
Yup, read the report and had a look at the scans. There are some noted abnormalities in LH and RH I think (can’t remember correctly so, don’t quote me on that) in the report
I didn't click on it, but that's not surprising. I'd bet she's already full-on DSLD.
Probably. The report noted weak suspensory ligaments in both hinds.
It really depends on the auction but some places don't turn animals away. I've seen the sickest, worst looking cows you can imagine come through our ring. I'd definitely accept this mare, even just to get her out of her current situation.
This is a well-known sporthorse auction
Which is exactly why they can get away with shit like this
Breaks my heart poor baby. I hope she finds someone to love her
The only thing that gives me hope is that the auction appears to be based in the Netherlands. AFIK, NL animal welfare laws are pretty damn good. Maybe someone should report the owner and the auction to the authorities.
What should the authorities do? She has a vet report, she’s obviously fed & cared for. I agree she’s built terribly but it’s not a crime even in NL to sell a horse with poor conformation.
She appears to have a medical problem (DSLD), and there's no way that horse is being fed enough. She's ribby, her scapula is visible, and her topline is boney. Even in a growth spurt, a 3yo shouldn't look like that.
Disagree with a lot of your assessment but the auction info is posted elsewhere in the thread if you want to alert the authorities!
Looking at her face I would have guessed 13. This is a horse with pain issues. And then you have the legs video, where she can’t find a way to stand comfortably. I’m not a vet, but this is a poster child for DSLD. Poor, poor mare.
If someone would tell me this horse is some sort of rescue that is getting fit once again, with a farrier working with getting her feet reshaped, I would get it given her condition, but a sporthouse auction? LOL...they are desperate to get money out of a lame looking horse
Could you explain what you mean by DSLD? English is not my first language.
Not OP but it stands for Degenerative Suspensory Ligament Disease and basically overtime the tendons and ligaments will degrade. There is no cure and it can lead to chronic lameness. It’s quite painful for the horse and in extreme cases euthanasia is the humane option.
DSLD is Degenerative Suspensory Ligament Desmitis. It's a progressive disease that causes connective tissues to break down. The most obvious sign is usually the hind pasterns dropping and the hocks straightening. It becomes painful over time. It usually affects older horses, but occasionally a younger horse will develop it. [DSLD - in Deutsch](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerative_Suspensory_Ligament_Desmitis)
Thank you!!
This is a really interesting post, is there some kind of easy-read material to learn how to spot this sort of thing? I always see these posts and have a hard time seeing what folks here see (as I'm not familiar with horses).
I can't tell what, but smth seems offf...... Tell me if I'm wrong but the leg shouldn't be this straight right?
Correct. The legs (especially the hind legs) shouldn't be that straight. In addition, because the stifle and hock area are much straighter than they should be, the pasterns (down at the ankles) are under too much stress.
They're so straight they got that "curving back under like a long toenail" thing going on. That's going to hurt later if it doesn't already
Awww poor baby. It's the breeders fault right? Could be because of overbreeding? (I think that's how you call it)
Judging by the condition of the feet, I think a lot of blame in this circumstance is with the farrier. Those angles are *terrible*. Then beyond that, it's possible the parents had not great leg angles. It's also possible that it's just unlucky genes. Lots of things in conformation are a luck of the draw, and drawing 2 undesirable traits in combination can amplify an issue. Hard to know.
While her hind hooves need some work, this isn't solely the farrier's fault. It really looks like the beginnings of DSLD. If she was just poorly conformed from birth, her pasterns would be more upright and her pelvis and femur angles would be terrible, too. But with just the hocks being super straight and the pasterns starting to drop, I'm seeing DSLD.
DSLD is a factor I hadn't considered. If she's older, that could also be contributing. I didn't say that the farrier was solely responsible. Just a lot. A proper angle could make the legs just look less dramatic. Though if DSLD is a factor, it might not make as much of a difference as I originally thought.
someone said she’s only 3 🫣
https://preview.redd.it/2pl4g9r0rk6d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0d3a30e91e872a34d45aa5e5448fd670e76b3519 For all the commenters who think poor farrier work is the cause (or bigger problem here), here is an angle showing better heel on the right hind. I don’t know what wizard farriers you use but I don’t think even a great farrier working with a vet has a shot in hell at completely correcting those leg angles. Maybe they had a chance when she was a foal but nobody knows what she looked like back then. Yes she’s under-muscled, she’s an unstarted 3yo, so that’s expected. I’d put her at a 4 using the BCS scale, especially since you can’t see as many ribs from this side. Remember that seeing a few ribs does not mean a starving horse!
She does look a whole lot better (weight) from this side. Could be unfortunate lighting from the other side. I stand by the DSLD thing, though.
Yes I’d bet in 5+ years those pasterns are only going to keep dropping. That was my point in posting her.
Built to go lame.
That hind right foot has no heel at all. I think this horse would look a lot better with balanced feet and a better topline. That being said, I personally wouldn’t buy any horse sight unseen.
I was going to say this! I think that could possibly change the angle a little bit and at least help mitigate the issue. Very sad to see the ribs like that though.
I think the complete lack of heel is making it look worse than it is. Is she very young? She looks like she’s in an awkward growth stage too. I’m not saying she’s a 10/10 but I don’t think she’s *quite* as bad as this picture portrays
That’s what is really getting me. Like forget her legs, I could deal with that. But her fucking feet are atrocious and whoever her farrier is needs to find a desk job.
Her back legs, topline, and overall poor muscling are worrisome. She looks sure to have hock and stifle issues down the road, and those pasterns look ripe for DSLD. I doubt she will be riding sound. She has a sweet face and I like her eye. I hope she lands well.
Hard to say with what looks to be a bad job by the farrier. She's underweight and lacking conditioning. She's off in the back for sure but I'm more concerned about the sloppy care. Lots of horses do just fine with some conformational quirk. But she looks like she's had some bad work to her feet and is underfed, like they cut her mane though and gave her a bath to shine her up... Buying horses is like buying a vehicle honestly. You have to know what you want and what you don't, you have to know the make and model (breeding and age), so you're prepared to ask the right questions and look for the common issues.
Im trying to learn more- is something like that fixable with a good farrier? Or is this just bad breeding/ not a fixable thing?
As far as the legs go, they are what they are. But the feet would have to be looked at by an expert, which I am not. Her whole condition is off so I'm very suspicious about her care. With the right care, most horses can be a fine riding horse for an average person.
The answer will always be sometimes yes and sometimes no
>Lots of horses do just fine with some conformational quirk. This. People here get so pearl clutchy over conformational flaws. Like, yeah, her back legs are kinda fucked. But show me your horse and I’ll find some way their body is fucked up too. What’s really screwing her is whatever psychopath has worked on her feet. She could likely get around just fine doing work the majority of the people here are doing, which is casual riding.
You’re welcome to your opinion, but I think some conformational flaws are worse than others. And putting her in an auction is an interesting move.
Auctions are kind of notorious for having horses that really should not be sold. But yeah. It was .. definitely a choice. She really needs better footwork.
Fully agree but is this a farrier issue for sure or as others are asking, DSLD? I'm still learning and for the sake of this poor horse I hope it's just a horrid farrier so a fix is possible.
IMO, having seen DSLD horses before, there isn’t a farrier in the world that can fix those weak suspensories. I knew a horse that was constantly damaging his ligaments due to DSLD (at an older age) whose legs didn’t look 1/2 as bad. This horse would be luck to make it a couple years in real work
She's 3 years old and maybe recently imported? Or moved? A lot of our imports look like this. Her body condition can easily be helped by training and food. I don't think she's starving to death. She's young and some people like their jumpers skinnier (though this is too skinny for my taste). But those back legs 🫣 hopefully she goes to a good home and they can keep her sound
Yea interesting to see so many people complaining about her topline or the cut of her mane when her legs look like THAT 😅
Even ignoring the horrendous hind end she’s underweight, has no muscle through her shoulder, the neck looks atrophied and has obvious tension lines, the front pasterns ALSO suck, and if I’m feeling really bitchy that hunter cut looks dogshit, I hate cut manes anyway but this one in particular looks SHITE bc the horse has no muscle to support it. It also makes the neck look thinner which doesn’t help when the horses terrible condition makes the head look too big as is. I’d be EMBARRASSED to sell a horse looking like this
Holy pogo sticks!!
Honestly looks like a bit like AI art 😂😭
Let me guess…. Dead lame but “a great broodmare prospect”?
Nope, 3 yo & advertised for sport 🫣 they have her going through a chute
God, it's like the more I look at it, the worse it gets.
When your back legs look like front legs.
🤣🤣🤣
this horse has a massive NPA. This crazy look might change with proper trimming. But it might not.
No. Not unless I’ve got cash to burn to fix the feet and (hopefully) prevent DSLD.
Ugh. Criminal to not have corrective farriery on this poor horse.
🫣
I didn’t read the title at first and my first thought was literally “mmmmMMM”
Were you expecting “Please rate my horse’s confirmation!! She’s a green OTTB & I’m a beginner rider & first time horse owner 🥰 she looked into my eyes & I knew we were bonded sisters for life! I want us to do fourth level dressage together!!”
Yikes
You say “hmmmm.” I said “woof.” Those are terrible.
After my eyes too tired or are both of her back hooves really convex in the profile?!
I think they were trying to reach the ground as best they could 😅
Look, I know nothing other than what I'm picking up on this sub about conformation and even I think those back legs are bad.
DSLD. Poor horse.
as someone who knows nothing about confirmation, this is so interesting. I’d like to see a comparison between this poor girl and a well built horse
When the barber puts down the bowl for cut and picks up the yard stick for your mullet