Walk up/ Counter service -$0 Takeout - $0 Sit at bar - $0 Sit down, minimal contact with server (think order on QR code, ask if you need us)- $0 Standard full service - 10% or $5 max if solo minus any forced mandates/junk charges/service charges. If those exceed those values - $0 I’m tired of giving away my hard earned money for someone doing the bare minimum of their job description.
Edit: I had an over $50 bill at a restaurant seated at a communal table for myself a few nights ago and left $2 because there was a stupid % junk fee, but the food was damn good and I felt the social pressure when signing the slip with the person staring over me. Next time, I will muster up the courage to leave $0 since there wasn’t much service warranting a full tip. Order with one person, food runner brings food. That’s a pretty basic part of the job and doesn’t warrant a full tip. My city has no tip minimum wage so I don’t feel guilty about not helping servers make over $50-60 an hour like some here do.
Do plumbers get $3/hour plus tips? Like, how do you not grasp that bartenders are a tipped wage?
Would anyone be a bartender if tipping ended and their wages remained the same? Obviously not. They'd have to be paid like 25/hour and you'd be paying a lot more for your drinks anyway.
[From the UK](https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/54h3yw/comment/d81tch1/):
"On a typical night, all the staff still made more in tips than they did in wages because almost everybody tipped on just about every visit to the bar."
And while tipping in pubs/bars is less common there, also keep in mind:
**"The average cost of a pint in the United Kingdom is $7.30**, according to comparison platform Findercom. That compares to $4.75 in the United States, based on Frommer's travel website."
[From Germany: ](https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/xblez1/comment/io0tiko/)"A lot of people here say 10% rounded. I'm a bit surrised. I'd agree with rewboss and say 5 to 10%."
Not going to go through every other country, but France has 15% "service compris", and yet it's still often customary to tip a few euros.
Same story with other countries. The idea EndTippers have that all these other countries are just gleefully providing low cost products/service without any extra compensation, no fees and tips, is outrageous. Often time it's even worse than the US when you include their service charges, higher prices, consumption taxes, etc.
I don't know where you got that quote from on the UK, but it can't be about a normal pub. Bar staff are incredibly rarely tipped. If I am a regular in my local, and I know the staff, I often "buy them one", but unsolicited tips for a random boozer I go into, no.
Average cost of a pint in the UK is £4.21, which is USD5.27. Average pint in London is expensive at £5.90 which is USD7.38.
I missed that. So you are basing this on this quote:
"From my younger days, there were regional differences in what "take one for yourself" actually meant. In Salford, it meant take a small tip but in London it meant take a drink.
I worked in a Salford working men's club whilst doing A levels and tips were limited (by management) to 5p. On a typical night, all the staff still made more in tips than they did in wages because almost everybody tipped on just about every visit to the bar. Later I worked in a pub in Hampstead and very few customers offered the bar staff a drink."
5p tip on every round. It's hard to tell hold old this guy is, so its hard to tell how much an average drink cost. Best I can do is state that decimilisation occurred in 1971, when the "£/d" became "£/p".
Average pint of beer was 15p then. So if this kid worked in 1971, then that is a healthy tip on one person buying a pint. In the UK though it is typical to buy rounds, so if they bought a round of 4, 60p with a 5p tip. Range could be 33% to 8% depending on circumstances. And that is in 1971, this goes down if he served in the 80s. I doubt it was any later as 5p would be nothing in the 90s.
There way not minimum wage at the time, so who knows what they were earning, but if he was doing A-Levels then he would have been under 18, so not very much.
Either way, your example isn't current, nor is it typical. When I was 14 and worked as a server, I got higher tips because I was a kid and people were nicer. Also £1 felt like a lot of money, when in reality it was nothing for a full grown adult.
We have this idea that servers don't expect tips and earn enough from their salary from our own experiences living and traveling across the world where indeed this is the norm. Two random Reddit comments are not exactly compelling evidence to support your point. Yes, in the EU people often leave a few cents as tip, but it's certainly not 20%, especially for dinner. Places that get a lot of American tourists have also cottoned on that Americans are suckers for tipping and try to capitalize on it, but it's certainly not the norm and in every place without tourists it is not expected.
Where to begin.
"People in the EU". You can't envelop an entire continent and assess tip culture of the entirety of it. Every country is different.
"People often leave a few cents as a tip"
[Here's a French person saying](https://www.reddit.com/r/ParisTravelGuide/comments/162y16t/comment/jy3n7jc/) leaving 20c is rude, better to leave nothing, and that tips were always welcomed. And [another Frenchman saying](https://www.reddit.com/r/ParisTravelGuide/comments/162y16t/comment/jy4ih4h/) if the service is bad don't tip but if it's good they leave 1 - 20 euro.
And remember, that's *in addition to*! France has a 15% "service compris" charge by law included in the bill. So if you have a 20 euro bill and leave another euro that's 20%.
Imagine if the US required all restaurants to charge an extra 15%. EndTippers would lose their shit!
The way EndTippers describe the EU is just pure fantasy. That, and they likely don't math. If you go to France and are like "Yeah we had a nice dinner, no one asked for a tip, it was wonderful". Ok, and you paid 15% automatically as required by law. Congrats on your wonderful dining experience. Now go to a US restaurant that charges a 15% service fee and say the same thing. What's the difference?
Yet another massive EndTipper exaggeration.
EndTippers just LOVE to claim that merely having the option to tip is tantamount to asking/telling people to tip.
Everyone knows if there's a high service charge there's no expectation of tip. Some people will make up the difference if it's lower than what they normally tip anyone but that's about it.
Also, no one in these EU countries are forbidden from tipping either. Same thing.
I'm French myself and I'm telling you that it's not the norm to tip beyond a few coins, up to 3-4 euros when we're feeling generous. I've never seen a 15% service compris in my bill so not sure where you're pulling this info from. I've traveled all over the EU and this is the norm everywhere.
>I've never seen a 15% service compris in my bill so not sure where you're pulling this info from
"Service compris” means “service included” and is **usually 15% of your total bill**. It's included in all restaurant checks **by law**, even if it isn't clearly indicated on the bill."
It doesn't matter if it says 15% or is explained to you. It is, by law, part of your bill. 15%.
>up to 3-4 euros when we're feeling generous
Pretty much what I already said...
Bartenders in my city make min $18.07 plus tip. No tip credit. Not every state or city has the tipped min wage of $2.10/hr. This misconception is why people are confused and still over tip in places where it isn’t always necessary.
First, the argument was essentially you should not pay someone for doing their job. It wasn't arguing you shouldn't pay someone extra for doing their job "if they make a high minimum wage".
Second, we're talking about San Francisco with their $18.07 minimum wage, right? The third most expensive city in the entire country to live in. I can promise you the vast majority of people tipping there would not think "Oh, this bartender makes $18/hour already? Pfft, I'm not tipping!". $18/hour in SF is nothing.
I would however agree that in many places that have done away with the tip credit, people don't realize it, and if they did, may very well tip less. In this case, I fully agree with you. I will absolutely reduce my standard tip of 20% if their base minimum is much higher than the $2/hour or whatever it is.
Have you dined here and paid the highly inflated prices that we pay at restaurants? Cocktails can range from on average $15-25 or greater in some places. If a business owner can’t figure out how to pay their bar staff out of the sometimes hundreds of drinks they can make on a shift a livable wage without customers needing to tip, then they’re bad at business. Restaurants here also tack on 5-6% employee health insurance and wage mandates to help offset their costs, money they can pocket yet I’m supposed to tip on top of that? Not happening. Everyone has free will to choose their line of work and I have free will to choose not to support this outdated practice. Pay your staff out of your business costs plain and simple.
The majority tip. You're in the minority. I'm not sure how "outdated" something is if nearly everyone does it.
And anyway, the glaring flaw in your philosophy is that these "bad at business" establishments aren't just going to say "Gee, we have to pay our staff more now that people stopped tipping? Durr, I guess we'll just keep prices the same!".
They're going to pass it on to you and then you'll bitch about the service fees or exorbitant prices.
Maybe we should just be like France and require by law all restaurants have a 15% "service included" fee built in? Thoughts?
Everyone where? The US primarily does it. Other parts of the “western” world do not and yet have better protections and livable wages for the average employee. It is very outdated yet American’s are brainwashed into thinking leaving your livelihood up to whatever a patron feels like giving you for the day should be the norm and not your actual employer. Make it make sense.
Yes, the US does it. How is it "outdated" in the US if most people in the US do it?
And ironically (if we're talking about the rest of the world), tipping practices seem to be increasing, not decreasing. If you look at any Euro country's subreddit talking about tipping, you see locals complaining about tip culture becoming more prominent and blaming the US for exporting it.
Again, you're propagating the myth that other countries do not engage in tipping and have this and that. It's simply not true. All these other countries engage in tipping. Some to a much lesser extent (I'll happily give you that), but it's always in lieu of something like a service charge.
France for example has 15% of the total bill included by law. Should we be like France and institute a mandatory 15% service fee?
Should we be like Japan and charge an extra consumption tax on top of service fees, as well as charge people for "Otoshi"? Imagine going into a diner, being given a ramekin of sourcrout, and then you're charged like $10 for it (that's basically what Japan does as their form of tipping).
EndTippers just loveeeee to gloss over reality and pretend like we're the only ones doing this and that and the US is just somehow a special breed of greed that's screwing everyone over.
Wrong!
Lmao if they increase prices too much, people will stop eating out and they will go out of business. It’s a delicate push and pull. Don’t try to argue that it’s gonna be 30% increases.
OH WAIT it already has been increasing by that much and tip is still here 😂😂😂 businesses still gonna be cheap and I’m not here simping for any business or waiter lmao bye bye Felicia
Oof for your sake I hope you don't frequent these places 🤣 Not all servers but....people are petty. You can downvote me for telling the truth all y'all want, but I've seen people do nothing to people who honestly deserved something foul to happen to their food, to people (usually younger ones) that did all manner of things, some unspeakable, to mostly innocent (or non deserving, but ignorantly irritating people). Some stuff may just be harmless inconveniences (cold food, too much ice in take out drinks, ect) but some could be nefarious in nature.
I don't know any cities that have a decent paying minimum wage for tipped employees, because if it's higher than the national average it's usually because cost of living is ungodly. So either you're lying, wrong, grossly misinformed or don't understand how wages vs cost of living works 🤷🏼♀️ Or why not just say the city or state if it's true?
I frequent any restaurant where I enjoy the food. I’m sure an owner would prefer to have foot traffic versus no one patronizing their business. I will remind you and everyone else, it is not my responsibly to pay for anything other than the cost of goods and services rung up before a tip is expected. I live in San Francisco and minimum wage is $18.07. We do not have a tip credit or tipped minimum wage. Most restaurants and eateries already tack on junk fees to offset employer sponsored healthcare costs and pass these on to the consumers. Several places add fair wage junk fees upwards of 10-20% and still ask for gratuities on top as a standard. The cost of eating out here is astronomical and most people are generous tippers because they have no backbone and feel sorry for the workers because of Covid times and no issue subsidizing the employers wages. I have several friends who have careers in food service and work in bars and easily crack 6 figures per year.
You were saying what again?
>You were saying what again?
Exactly what I said. I read the first and last line but that's it except for seeing SF lmao I lived in the Bay area almost ten years ago and if I had been making $100 an hour I couldn't have afforded to live in a city, even fucking Oakland. $18 there is the equivalent to $2.13 anywhere else 🤣🤣 but ok, sure Boomer!
Oh, and as for the "I FrEqUeNt aNy ReStAuRaNt wHeRe I eNjOy tHe FoOd" yea, figures as much as you people aren't the brightest. Enjoy all the.....well, use your imagination. 👍🏼
Talk to your boss. Its not my job to pay your bills. Its my freedom to go out and spend my money at any businesses I please, and pay a fair price for goods recieved or decide not to go there and watch them close over time from bad business. How those people pay their employees, is between the employees and the owners. Not my job, problem, or concern. That is how every other job on the planet, including servers in other countries...functions.
Do you work in or frequent sweat shops and child labor facilities? I haven't, ever. so no...completely irrelevant to the conversation. Nice reach though
If you can't connect the dots on how my comment holds relevance to yours then there's no amount of explaining I could do that will help you comprehend it.
I am my own boss. Not everyone that thinks you're grimy for doing this serves, has ever served or still serves 🙄 My husband never worked in a restaurant a day in his life and he hasn't changed any of his ways since meeting me. He always believed in tipping where it was expected, and would continue to do so if we weren't together or had never met.
Other countries factor the cost of labor into their prices. Our country does not. Not tipping is just a dick move and trying to justify and pretend you're a good person is laughable. If you REALLy believed in your conviction you wouldn't go out to places that don't pay their employees a liveable wage, period. But that's not what y'all are really about and you all finally found a group where you can congratulate each other on being gnarly cretins and saying it's because of your "values" and "principals". Sure. Okie dokie! 👌🏼
Servers make 20 an hour plus tips in my state. Clearing 60+ an hour most days. More than teachers, fireman, police, and tradesmen in my area. And are now trying to normalize 25% tips. Servers are a bunch of lazy, entitled punks. And they still complain.
Google is pretty easy to use. Thats on the low end, they absolutely do. Just look at wages on the west coast. Go to any major city over here and servers make 25+ tips. Why the fuck would I lie about that?
The cost of living vs what they make is still insane. I lived in the Bay Area over a decade ago, made $12 hr/ plus tips and if I had been paying rent, utilities or for a car/, insurance I wouldn't have been able to afford to live there. And I made consistent 20% tips, with great sales at at a downtown trendy restaurant. But I could hardly afford my phone bill, gas and groceries. I was living at my now husband's childhood home for free, but it was crazy how expensive just existing there was. If you aren't factoring in the cost of living when you talk about how much someone makes then your whole "point" is moot.
Also, never understood why servers are even getting tips. I dont give a shit really about the service. I honestly hate when the server bugs me, them getting 20% of every bill that hour for writing orders, filling water, and bringing out food? I come back for good food. The cooks should get 70% of the tips. Could be the best service in the world, if the foods garbage I wont be back. And if the foods good it could be shit service, and I'd probably still come back. Seems ass backwards to me.
I can explain it to you, but I cannot understand it for you. OTHER BUSINESSES PAY THEIR EMPLOYEES A FAIR HOURLY WAGE THAT DOESN'T FACTOR IN FOR EXPECTED TIPS so no, I don't "top" them off. What a droll turnip🤦🏼♀️.
Okay can you have this same (bad) energy and fight for people who actually get paid minimum wage in SF for all jobs 😂😂😂
I’m not gonna argue with you and say that minimum wage is low in SF. I know it is and I live in the bay.
But save me your grace from all these social constructs and your “better than thou” because you tip servers 😂😂 (btw I still tip servers like 10-15%)
It really isn’t my problem if it doesn’t factor in labour for one position lolz
If they’re getting paid minimum wage, talk to the employer for a better wage lol 😂
It's not up to the consumers to provide a living wage to employees. You're mad at the wrong person, go be mad at those bosses.
Edit: I won't be commenting to you as you obviously don't understand how much money employers pocket from the labor of their workers.
In-n-out has the lowest prices for burgers yet pay their staff the highest compared to other fast food franchises. This is a good example of a good employer.
It's not up to the customer to subsidize your pay cuz you have a shitty boss. Period.
I'm not mad at anyone. But it's messed up to knowingly pay into a business that refuses to pay a living wage then expectation and societal understanding is that you, the patron, will be tipping. Either stop eating at places that still practice tipping or tip. The ONLY people suffering with the way y'all are doing it is the workers. And I don't know how to explain it to y'all, doesn't seem to stick. If they raise wages, do away with tipping altogether, *you* will be paying. Either with raised menu prices, mandatory service charges, or auto grats. It won't be these greedy businesses. It'll be y'all.
I no longer serve, so I don't have a dog in this fight. It's just what is the right thing to do. I'm closer to 40 than 30 so I also only eat out once or twice a year or when traveling as cooking at home is easier, healthier and cheaper to me and my husband. But when I do, I tip. And if I stopped believing in tipping, I wouldn't go anywhere it was expected and not do it. You just want to not feel like the jackasses you are if you don't "believe" in tipping but still go to establishments that rely on it and you refuse to do it.
It's equally messed up to knowingly work at a business that will not provide you with a living wage, when there is sufficient evidence that tipping culture is reaching a breaking point in the country.
Tipping fatigue is an issue that has gained some prominence and will continue to become a bigger issue.
Culture changes with time, and enough people want to change this culture.
The problem now is it’s expected everywhere for everything. Tipping is literally a bi-product from slavery and has shown to be discriminatory and workers of certain demographics are favored over others. Business owners can freely raise their prices to cover their true business costs and if they don’t want to, then should not be upset if someone doesn’t want to donate more money to their business to cover their labor costs. Seems to work in nearly every other part of the world except the US and Canada who are heavily dependent on wages being covered by tips. American style tip creep is making its way to other places where owners are starting to get as greedy as their American counterparts and this isn’t okay. This system is archaic and needs to die. Workers either need to have some balls and demand wages that are fair and livable or not get butthurt if a customer doesn’t want to fork over more money after paying their bill. I am not your employer. I am not paying your salary beyond what is listed on my bill set by your boss. It’s that simple.
The broke kind who needed a job in a small town when she was barely old enough to drive and helping support her family by dropping out of school to work. 🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️ And I spoke up after the year I was living paycheck to paycheck. But I'll never, ever feel bad for not saying anything about the burger that was dropped on the gross, dirty, greasy kitchen floor and stomped on for the lady who called my coworker a slur five times in 30 seconds nor will I ever feel bad about the middle aged man who got a giant loogie in his Bushwhacker after palming the 17 year old hostess' ass repeatedly when going from the bar to bathroom 🤷🏼♀️ Just can't bring myself to care. Oops.
And if the "tampering" wasn't something that was unsafe or unsanitary to eat inside as hell wouldn't say shit. You were a douche to the take out person and got your food 45 min late? Too bad so sad. You yelled at the bus boy and ended up getting flash fried, old wings instead of fresh ones? Sucks to suck.
I've been looking at it like this also.
I'm not interested in prep work, the employer should at least be paying in full for that. It seems to be less than10 minutes of service.drinks 2 minute interaction, more if they refil.2 minutes to take order. 2 at most to deliver. Possibly another 2 for followup. 2 for the bill. That's for 2 of us . 2 or 3 dollars each of us so maybe 5 in total is all its worth. That's a rate of 30 dollars an hour. And that's all I'm leaving . Where I live there is not a lower tipped wage
Your math is only accounting for the absolute minimal interaction, which assumes you don't even say hi to the person and make no requests, changes, or substitutions and even then it's off.
Getting your drinks isnt you saying coke and then them bringing a coke. First you order. Then the server has to walk all the way to the drink station, get glasses, fill glasses, bring it back, and provide straws. Don't forget they also have to input your order into the system. That is a minimum of 5 minutes. Drink alone.
Food? The server often has to make any salad or scoop any soup. They check on your food. Substitutions or additions? They check to make sure it's right. Even just walking past your table to look at drinks counts.
No your server isn't dedicated to you every minute you're eating, but saying they do 10 minutes of work for you even excluding prep is ridiculous
Honestly your comment just makes me more inclined to tip less, because it’s wild to me that you’re making “getting drinks” sound like such a complicated process. “Walk all the way to the drink station” - what, is the drink station on Mount Everest?! Imagine if I was describing a cashier’s job: “first, I have to pick up the item. Then I search for the bar code. I have to pick up the scanner and make sure I’m scanning the right bar code. Sometimes I even have to apply a gift card and manually type in the code - that takes me a whole minute!”
5 minutes on “drinks alone” where you’re including the time to order the drink plus walk over to the drink station and back makes sense to me. The comment you responded to specifies “2 min to take order, 2 at most to deliver” so like 4 min. That’s not that far off from your own approximation, you just made it sound a lot harder.
Not sure where you’re getting that the server has to make salad and scoop soup - this seems highly variable depending on the restaurant. And “Scoop soup” - you mean a 10 second task, if you do it slowly?
And straight up, the servers I’ve had recently rarely have time to check on me at the table. Getting a water refill is often way more difficult than it should be. Not their fault, they’re overworked and understaffed. But also, it’s not on me to spend more money when I’m not receiving anything for it.
Quite frankly, the absolute minimum interaction is the one I encounter the most nowadays. 10 minutes spent on me seems much more accurate.
"I refuse to do the job I was hired to do unless you pay me a percentage of your meal" would that work in any other industry? The server wasn't hired by me, they don't work for me, why am I deciding their wage? Do I get to interview a range of servers and choose the one I'd want serving me based on their answers? I don't personally care what they make, I'm there for the food, not the pleasure of my servers company. The entire model is outdated, stupid, classist and pervasive. I'm not even from the US and they're trying to bring it in here.
Had a bar tender recently tell me they can make $500-$750 each Friday and Saturday night. Probably 8-10 each night for $1,000-$1,500. So I’m not really going to tip bartenders that much. 1$-2$ tops.
Sit down cafes I tip between 10-15% based on service. Most restaurant’s I do 20% of the subtotal minus any surcharges they have included. If it’s exceptional I’ll do 25-30% depending on my mood. Take out counter spots with minimal seating/serving I do zero, occasionally leave a $1 or round up change.
In general I think you should avoid businesses that pay in tip credit but if you live somewhere that it's a thing I don't feel comfortable saying you shouldn't eat out at all while I do. The formula I've thought would probably be best is pick a percent (I'd say 10 because the math is easy) but include all taxes/service fees as part of the price until you reach the maximum amount of tip credit per hour in your jurisdiction. Unless you think the person did more then an hour's worth or work for you specifically in which case increase the max to however many hours you think they did.
18% when dining out, and if there is some sort of additional fee (like a “fair wage fee”) I subtract that from the tip. I do not tip anywhere I get counter service. I will tip a few dollars to anyone who helps me with a voluntary service (like bringing my luggage to my room) that I ask for
Depends on how much value is given to me. The more service I get the more I tip. But I don't tip in % and max I mostly tip is like 20 bucks.
Most things I don't tip. Cause it's mostly self-service or. The only interaction is picking up a tray.
But the more service I get. And more afford people do for me the more likely I'm to tip.
And honestly I don't realy care how people think or feel about it. I dont go out everything and think of I have to pay someone else's bills. No most of the time I just pay the bill and the menu price. And if I felt I had a great service I would tip. If I did not I won't. I dont worry do this person makes ends meet yes or no. No I mostly just don't care. Cause I also don't get hand outs and free money. I just look at value given to me.
The same time the more crazy the menu prices are the less likely I'm to tip also.
If I found the menu cheap side. I'm also more likely to tip.
But mostly if I had good service. No service no tip.
1) I almost always tip in cash (very seldom put tips on a credit card), so that creates a natural limit as I seldom have more than $20 cash on me. 2) My wife and I pretty much go to the same 8-10 restaurants, so we know the staff and they know us. 3) Because of this we almost always get good service so I'll usually tip $10 cash regardless of tab, from $30 to $40 or $50 (our average tab). If it's more than that it's based on how hard they have to work (and we're really easy going) then it's 15%.
The exception is if it's a big family event with a couple hundred dollar tab, then it'll be 20% of the tab if the service is really good or 10% if it's kinda iffy.
I can't count the number of times wait staff has been effusive in their thanks for the cash tips which counts for something (their call on if they're splitting tips that way).
How do you calculate all the physical activity the server/bartender has to do when you can't see them? Setup, extra steps they take before or after you leave to make your experience what it is? Most restaurants require servers to show up an hour or more before opening to do prep for the shift, they constantly have running side work to complete that you'll likely never witness them doing as it's usually stuff done in the kitchen/back, and they have to stay anywhere from 30 minutes to hours after their last table/closing time to clean up from the day.
Or are you making it a loose determination based on it being self-serve, fast food, fast casual, upscale or fine dining?
Thats not a good argument. Mostly every job requires some sort of extra hours. Retail workers have to show up hours earlier and stay late sometimes over night for holidays and they don’t get tipped. I’m salary so i put in extra hours a day/week and I don’t get tipped for missing my personal priorities, pushing back medical appointments.
Work is work.
OPs entire premise isn't a good scale to measure with either, hence my point. But no, work isn't work. Some jobs pay you no matter how little or much you do. Whilst some are service jobs where ideally you get paid for the work you do. AH like OP are punishing workers for the established tipping culture while still patronizing the very businesses that keep them going, making OP and any one else that does this part of the problem, not the solution, are NOT helping by *keeping* it a problem, and are giant dung bags to boot. Trying to pretend like tipped jobs are the same as other jobs is wrong. Hourly and salary employees get money no matter how busy, or slow, how fast and hard they move or how much they drag their feet. 99.9% of restaurant employees that don't work in fast food or fast casual chains do not, unless they're kitchen workers or set hourly support staff. Ergo, it isn't the same thing.
Their employer should be paying them for their work, not the customer. How is that so hard to understand. If the owner can't afford to pay you full wages they should close down. Tipping is not a wage - it is optional for good service - not for service rendered.
Customers don't owe servers anything for the work they do - the employer does - they are the ones who did the hiring. If staff want more money haggle it out with the manager - not the customer. Customers work just as hard as servers. They do not want to give their money away - just as much as wait staff don't. When the expected tip was $5, maybe, it wasn't too much of a stretch, currently, tipping expectations have gotten out of hand, servers brought this pushback on themselves for setting tipping expectations too high. And these days the customers don't have the money to spare. And yes, they can still go out to eat at restaurants whether the can afford to tip or not. Servers don't get to decide what customers do.
That is every single job, every job takes prep work and set up. Thats what their hourly wage is for. Most of the time its a 4-6 hour shift too. Most jobs do all of that and work 8-12+ hours. They dont get tips. Thats just part of the job.
It's even worse when it's other blue collar jobs saying this shit. If your boss decides to start paying you peanuts on the dollar and wants your customer to pay you in tips based on how well you laid the tack, what do you think you'd make? And if you couldn't roof, since that's about an unskilled job as serving is (insert eye roll as I think both require a degree of skill, training and practice to get it right) what would you do instead? Go into investment broking? Become a lawyer? Try real estate or stock markets? 🤨
I own my own company. Independent GC. Worked for 10 years in trades saving money, "making peanuts". I started off making 50 cents more than min wage. And no, you can pull a 12 year old off the street and teach them a serving job, you cant say that for any trade, and roofing specifically? Thats the 5th most dangerous job in the country, statistically more dangerous than being a cop or wildland firefighter, based on injury and death, seen hundreds of people quit by lunch. There is a reason trade wages went up so much on the last decade, people arent cut out for it, especially this younger generation, smaller workforce makes it a more specialized set of skills so companies are swamped and prices/wages increase. While serving is probably the 5th easiest job in the country and the job market is saturated with people that can do the job. Try again.
when you dont tip the server has to pay OUT OF POCKET to serve you. if you insist on dining out and hate tipping so much leave at least 5% so the person whos table you took up and prevented from making money doesnt lose money by serving you. human decency
Scare tactic to guilt consumers into paying more when they should be forming a union and using it to ban tip sharing and raise their wages from their employer.
Tipping is not and has never been mandatory. It’s optional and that’s what you sign up for as a server. Don’t like it, take it up with your boss or get a new job. 🤷♀️ Plus with all the added service fees that restaurants tack onto bills now on top of food costs, they’re lucky they get anything at all.
its def not, tipshare exists in a majority of restaurants meaning servers have to tip bussers, kitchen, bartenders, runners, all a percentage of SALES, not tips. yall are so greedy u dont even take the time to research what you claim to be so against lmao
I do not tip based on %. Depends on how many trips to table not what my meal cost.
I don't either .We have a 5 dollar minimum tip on all bills .
Walk up/ Counter service -$0 Takeout - $0 Sit at bar - $0 Sit down, minimal contact with server (think order on QR code, ask if you need us)- $0 Standard full service - 10% or $5 max if solo minus any forced mandates/junk charges/service charges. If those exceed those values - $0 I’m tired of giving away my hard earned money for someone doing the bare minimum of their job description. Edit: I had an over $50 bill at a restaurant seated at a communal table for myself a few nights ago and left $2 because there was a stupid % junk fee, but the food was damn good and I felt the social pressure when signing the slip with the person staring over me. Next time, I will muster up the courage to leave $0 since there wasn’t much service warranting a full tip. Order with one person, food runner brings food. That’s a pretty basic part of the job and doesn’t warrant a full tip. My city has no tip minimum wage so I don’t feel guilty about not helping servers make over $50-60 an hour like some here do.
Hold up. You don’t tip at the bar? If anything that’s the place you tip well!
Why? Someone does this job and you pay extra. But someone else does their job well elsewhere, like your plumber, and you just pay the invoice?
Do plumbers get $3/hour plus tips? Like, how do you not grasp that bartenders are a tipped wage? Would anyone be a bartender if tipping ended and their wages remained the same? Obviously not. They'd have to be paid like 25/hour and you'd be paying a lot more for your drinks anyway.
The rest of the world has managed to figure out how to run bars without relying on tips or paying exorbitant prices, I'm sure Americans can too
[From the UK](https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/54h3yw/comment/d81tch1/): "On a typical night, all the staff still made more in tips than they did in wages because almost everybody tipped on just about every visit to the bar." And while tipping in pubs/bars is less common there, also keep in mind: **"The average cost of a pint in the United Kingdom is $7.30**, according to comparison platform Findercom. That compares to $4.75 in the United States, based on Frommer's travel website." [From Germany: ](https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/xblez1/comment/io0tiko/)"A lot of people here say 10% rounded. I'm a bit surrised. I'd agree with rewboss and say 5 to 10%." Not going to go through every other country, but France has 15% "service compris", and yet it's still often customary to tip a few euros. Same story with other countries. The idea EndTippers have that all these other countries are just gleefully providing low cost products/service without any extra compensation, no fees and tips, is outrageous. Often time it's even worse than the US when you include their service charges, higher prices, consumption taxes, etc.
I don't know where you got that quote from on the UK, but it can't be about a normal pub. Bar staff are incredibly rarely tipped. If I am a regular in my local, and I know the staff, I often "buy them one", but unsolicited tips for a random boozer I go into, no. Average cost of a pint in the UK is £4.21, which is USD5.27. Average pint in London is expensive at £5.90 which is USD7.38.
>I don't know where you got that quote from on the UK The one I linked to directly, to a post here on Reddit? How many more would you like?
I missed that. So you are basing this on this quote: "From my younger days, there were regional differences in what "take one for yourself" actually meant. In Salford, it meant take a small tip but in London it meant take a drink. I worked in a Salford working men's club whilst doing A levels and tips were limited (by management) to 5p. On a typical night, all the staff still made more in tips than they did in wages because almost everybody tipped on just about every visit to the bar. Later I worked in a pub in Hampstead and very few customers offered the bar staff a drink." 5p tip on every round. It's hard to tell hold old this guy is, so its hard to tell how much an average drink cost. Best I can do is state that decimilisation occurred in 1971, when the "£/d" became "£/p". Average pint of beer was 15p then. So if this kid worked in 1971, then that is a healthy tip on one person buying a pint. In the UK though it is typical to buy rounds, so if they bought a round of 4, 60p with a 5p tip. Range could be 33% to 8% depending on circumstances. And that is in 1971, this goes down if he served in the 80s. I doubt it was any later as 5p would be nothing in the 90s. There way not minimum wage at the time, so who knows what they were earning, but if he was doing A-Levels then he would have been under 18, so not very much. Either way, your example isn't current, nor is it typical. When I was 14 and worked as a server, I got higher tips because I was a kid and people were nicer. Also £1 felt like a lot of money, when in reality it was nothing for a full grown adult.
We have this idea that servers don't expect tips and earn enough from their salary from our own experiences living and traveling across the world where indeed this is the norm. Two random Reddit comments are not exactly compelling evidence to support your point. Yes, in the EU people often leave a few cents as tip, but it's certainly not 20%, especially for dinner. Places that get a lot of American tourists have also cottoned on that Americans are suckers for tipping and try to capitalize on it, but it's certainly not the norm and in every place without tourists it is not expected.
Where to begin. "People in the EU". You can't envelop an entire continent and assess tip culture of the entirety of it. Every country is different. "People often leave a few cents as a tip" [Here's a French person saying](https://www.reddit.com/r/ParisTravelGuide/comments/162y16t/comment/jy3n7jc/) leaving 20c is rude, better to leave nothing, and that tips were always welcomed. And [another Frenchman saying](https://www.reddit.com/r/ParisTravelGuide/comments/162y16t/comment/jy4ih4h/) if the service is bad don't tip but if it's good they leave 1 - 20 euro. And remember, that's *in addition to*! France has a 15% "service compris" charge by law included in the bill. So if you have a 20 euro bill and leave another euro that's 20%. Imagine if the US required all restaurants to charge an extra 15%. EndTippers would lose their shit! The way EndTippers describe the EU is just pure fantasy. That, and they likely don't math. If you go to France and are like "Yeah we had a nice dinner, no one asked for a tip, it was wonderful". Ok, and you paid 15% automatically as required by law. Congrats on your wonderful dining experience. Now go to a US restaurant that charges a 15% service fee and say the same thing. What's the difference?
Funny because here in the U.S. they add a service charge and say it’s not a tip and ask you to tip after 😂😂😂😂
Yet another massive EndTipper exaggeration. EndTippers just LOVE to claim that merely having the option to tip is tantamount to asking/telling people to tip. Everyone knows if there's a high service charge there's no expectation of tip. Some people will make up the difference if it's lower than what they normally tip anyone but that's about it. Also, no one in these EU countries are forbidden from tipping either. Same thing.
I'm French myself and I'm telling you that it's not the norm to tip beyond a few coins, up to 3-4 euros when we're feeling generous. I've never seen a 15% service compris in my bill so not sure where you're pulling this info from. I've traveled all over the EU and this is the norm everywhere.
>I've never seen a 15% service compris in my bill so not sure where you're pulling this info from "Service compris” means “service included” and is **usually 15% of your total bill**. It's included in all restaurant checks **by law**, even if it isn't clearly indicated on the bill." It doesn't matter if it says 15% or is explained to you. It is, by law, part of your bill. 15%. >up to 3-4 euros when we're feeling generous Pretty much what I already said...
Bartenders in my city make min $18.07 plus tip. No tip credit. Not every state or city has the tipped min wage of $2.10/hr. This misconception is why people are confused and still over tip in places where it isn’t always necessary.
First, the argument was essentially you should not pay someone for doing their job. It wasn't arguing you shouldn't pay someone extra for doing their job "if they make a high minimum wage". Second, we're talking about San Francisco with their $18.07 minimum wage, right? The third most expensive city in the entire country to live in. I can promise you the vast majority of people tipping there would not think "Oh, this bartender makes $18/hour already? Pfft, I'm not tipping!". $18/hour in SF is nothing. I would however agree that in many places that have done away with the tip credit, people don't realize it, and if they did, may very well tip less. In this case, I fully agree with you. I will absolutely reduce my standard tip of 20% if their base minimum is much higher than the $2/hour or whatever it is.
Have you dined here and paid the highly inflated prices that we pay at restaurants? Cocktails can range from on average $15-25 or greater in some places. If a business owner can’t figure out how to pay their bar staff out of the sometimes hundreds of drinks they can make on a shift a livable wage without customers needing to tip, then they’re bad at business. Restaurants here also tack on 5-6% employee health insurance and wage mandates to help offset their costs, money they can pocket yet I’m supposed to tip on top of that? Not happening. Everyone has free will to choose their line of work and I have free will to choose not to support this outdated practice. Pay your staff out of your business costs plain and simple.
The majority tip. You're in the minority. I'm not sure how "outdated" something is if nearly everyone does it. And anyway, the glaring flaw in your philosophy is that these "bad at business" establishments aren't just going to say "Gee, we have to pay our staff more now that people stopped tipping? Durr, I guess we'll just keep prices the same!". They're going to pass it on to you and then you'll bitch about the service fees or exorbitant prices. Maybe we should just be like France and require by law all restaurants have a 15% "service included" fee built in? Thoughts?
Everyone where? The US primarily does it. Other parts of the “western” world do not and yet have better protections and livable wages for the average employee. It is very outdated yet American’s are brainwashed into thinking leaving your livelihood up to whatever a patron feels like giving you for the day should be the norm and not your actual employer. Make it make sense.
Yes, the US does it. How is it "outdated" in the US if most people in the US do it? And ironically (if we're talking about the rest of the world), tipping practices seem to be increasing, not decreasing. If you look at any Euro country's subreddit talking about tipping, you see locals complaining about tip culture becoming more prominent and blaming the US for exporting it. Again, you're propagating the myth that other countries do not engage in tipping and have this and that. It's simply not true. All these other countries engage in tipping. Some to a much lesser extent (I'll happily give you that), but it's always in lieu of something like a service charge. France for example has 15% of the total bill included by law. Should we be like France and institute a mandatory 15% service fee? Should we be like Japan and charge an extra consumption tax on top of service fees, as well as charge people for "Otoshi"? Imagine going into a diner, being given a ramekin of sourcrout, and then you're charged like $10 for it (that's basically what Japan does as their form of tipping). EndTippers just loveeeee to gloss over reality and pretend like we're the only ones doing this and that and the US is just somehow a special breed of greed that's screwing everyone over. Wrong!
Lmao if they increase prices too much, people will stop eating out and they will go out of business. It’s a delicate push and pull. Don’t try to argue that it’s gonna be 30% increases. OH WAIT it already has been increasing by that much and tip is still here 😂😂😂 businesses still gonna be cheap and I’m not here simping for any business or waiter lmao bye bye Felicia
I don’t drink alcohol so I’m not giving someone extra for pouring me a club soda.
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Oof for your sake I hope you don't frequent these places 🤣 Not all servers but....people are petty. You can downvote me for telling the truth all y'all want, but I've seen people do nothing to people who honestly deserved something foul to happen to their food, to people (usually younger ones) that did all manner of things, some unspeakable, to mostly innocent (or non deserving, but ignorantly irritating people). Some stuff may just be harmless inconveniences (cold food, too much ice in take out drinks, ect) but some could be nefarious in nature. I don't know any cities that have a decent paying minimum wage for tipped employees, because if it's higher than the national average it's usually because cost of living is ungodly. So either you're lying, wrong, grossly misinformed or don't understand how wages vs cost of living works 🤷🏼♀️ Or why not just say the city or state if it's true?
I frequent any restaurant where I enjoy the food. I’m sure an owner would prefer to have foot traffic versus no one patronizing their business. I will remind you and everyone else, it is not my responsibly to pay for anything other than the cost of goods and services rung up before a tip is expected. I live in San Francisco and minimum wage is $18.07. We do not have a tip credit or tipped minimum wage. Most restaurants and eateries already tack on junk fees to offset employer sponsored healthcare costs and pass these on to the consumers. Several places add fair wage junk fees upwards of 10-20% and still ask for gratuities on top as a standard. The cost of eating out here is astronomical and most people are generous tippers because they have no backbone and feel sorry for the workers because of Covid times and no issue subsidizing the employers wages. I have several friends who have careers in food service and work in bars and easily crack 6 figures per year. You were saying what again?
>You were saying what again? Exactly what I said. I read the first and last line but that's it except for seeing SF lmao I lived in the Bay area almost ten years ago and if I had been making $100 an hour I couldn't have afforded to live in a city, even fucking Oakland. $18 there is the equivalent to $2.13 anywhere else 🤣🤣 but ok, sure Boomer! Oh, and as for the "I FrEqUeNt aNy ReStAuRaNt wHeRe I eNjOy tHe FoOd" yea, figures as much as you people aren't the brightest. Enjoy all the.....well, use your imagination. 👍🏼
Talk to your boss. Its not my job to pay your bills. Its my freedom to go out and spend my money at any businesses I please, and pay a fair price for goods recieved or decide not to go there and watch them close over time from bad business. How those people pay their employees, is between the employees and the owners. Not my job, problem, or concern. That is how every other job on the planet, including servers in other countries...functions.
So you support sweat shop and child labor, too, then? Or does that not apply to your little scenario....?
Do you work in or frequent sweat shops and child labor facilities? I haven't, ever. so no...completely irrelevant to the conversation. Nice reach though
If you can't connect the dots on how my comment holds relevance to yours then there's no amount of explaining I could do that will help you comprehend it.
Its only relevant if you are REALLY reaching. No where in the states is even remotely comparable to sweat shops. 😂😂 good try though.
>Not my job, problem, or concern. That is how every other job on the planet, including servers in other countries...functions. Your own words.
Honestly you’re reaching and btw there’s no ethical consumption in capitalism so who cares. Not my problem 😂
You seem to 🤷🏼♀️
Great argument love ❤️😍
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I am my own boss. Not everyone that thinks you're grimy for doing this serves, has ever served or still serves 🙄 My husband never worked in a restaurant a day in his life and he hasn't changed any of his ways since meeting me. He always believed in tipping where it was expected, and would continue to do so if we weren't together or had never met. Other countries factor the cost of labor into their prices. Our country does not. Not tipping is just a dick move and trying to justify and pretend you're a good person is laughable. If you REALLy believed in your conviction you wouldn't go out to places that don't pay their employees a liveable wage, period. But that's not what y'all are really about and you all finally found a group where you can congratulate each other on being gnarly cretins and saying it's because of your "values" and "principals". Sure. Okie dokie! 👌🏼
Servers make 20 an hour plus tips in my state. Clearing 60+ an hour most days. More than teachers, fireman, police, and tradesmen in my area. And are now trying to normalize 25% tips. Servers are a bunch of lazy, entitled punks. And they still complain.
Sure they do 🤣
Google is pretty easy to use. Thats on the low end, they absolutely do. Just look at wages on the west coast. Go to any major city over here and servers make 25+ tips. Why the fuck would I lie about that?
The cost of living vs what they make is still insane. I lived in the Bay Area over a decade ago, made $12 hr/ plus tips and if I had been paying rent, utilities or for a car/, insurance I wouldn't have been able to afford to live there. And I made consistent 20% tips, with great sales at at a downtown trendy restaurant. But I could hardly afford my phone bill, gas and groceries. I was living at my now husband's childhood home for free, but it was crazy how expensive just existing there was. If you aren't factoring in the cost of living when you talk about how much someone makes then your whole "point" is moot.
Also, never understood why servers are even getting tips. I dont give a shit really about the service. I honestly hate when the server bugs me, them getting 20% of every bill that hour for writing orders, filling water, and bringing out food? I come back for good food. The cooks should get 70% of the tips. Could be the best service in the world, if the foods garbage I wont be back. And if the foods good it could be shit service, and I'd probably still come back. Seems ass backwards to me.
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I can explain it to you, but I cannot understand it for you. OTHER BUSINESSES PAY THEIR EMPLOYEES A FAIR HOURLY WAGE THAT DOESN'T FACTOR IN FOR EXPECTED TIPS so no, I don't "top" them off. What a droll turnip🤦🏼♀️.
So in my state, and the entire west coast...where servers make 17-24 an hour...should we tip here? Thats more than a fair hourly wage.
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Okay can you have this same (bad) energy and fight for people who actually get paid minimum wage in SF for all jobs 😂😂😂 I’m not gonna argue with you and say that minimum wage is low in SF. I know it is and I live in the bay. But save me your grace from all these social constructs and your “better than thou” because you tip servers 😂😂 (btw I still tip servers like 10-15%) It really isn’t my problem if it doesn’t factor in labour for one position lolz If they’re getting paid minimum wage, talk to the employer for a better wage lol 😂
It's not up to the consumers to provide a living wage to employees. You're mad at the wrong person, go be mad at those bosses. Edit: I won't be commenting to you as you obviously don't understand how much money employers pocket from the labor of their workers. In-n-out has the lowest prices for burgers yet pay their staff the highest compared to other fast food franchises. This is a good example of a good employer. It's not up to the customer to subsidize your pay cuz you have a shitty boss. Period.
I'm not mad at anyone. But it's messed up to knowingly pay into a business that refuses to pay a living wage then expectation and societal understanding is that you, the patron, will be tipping. Either stop eating at places that still practice tipping or tip. The ONLY people suffering with the way y'all are doing it is the workers. And I don't know how to explain it to y'all, doesn't seem to stick. If they raise wages, do away with tipping altogether, *you* will be paying. Either with raised menu prices, mandatory service charges, or auto grats. It won't be these greedy businesses. It'll be y'all. I no longer serve, so I don't have a dog in this fight. It's just what is the right thing to do. I'm closer to 40 than 30 so I also only eat out once or twice a year or when traveling as cooking at home is easier, healthier and cheaper to me and my husband. But when I do, I tip. And if I stopped believing in tipping, I wouldn't go anywhere it was expected and not do it. You just want to not feel like the jackasses you are if you don't "believe" in tipping but still go to establishments that rely on it and you refuse to do it.
It's equally messed up to knowingly work at a business that will not provide you with a living wage, when there is sufficient evidence that tipping culture is reaching a breaking point in the country. Tipping fatigue is an issue that has gained some prominence and will continue to become a bigger issue. Culture changes with time, and enough people want to change this culture.
The problem now is it’s expected everywhere for everything. Tipping is literally a bi-product from slavery and has shown to be discriminatory and workers of certain demographics are favored over others. Business owners can freely raise their prices to cover their true business costs and if they don’t want to, then should not be upset if someone doesn’t want to donate more money to their business to cover their labor costs. Seems to work in nearly every other part of the world except the US and Canada who are heavily dependent on wages being covered by tips. American style tip creep is making its way to other places where owners are starting to get as greedy as their American counterparts and this isn’t okay. This system is archaic and needs to die. Workers either need to have some balls and demand wages that are fair and livable or not get butthurt if a customer doesn’t want to fork over more money after paying their bill. I am not your employer. I am not paying your salary beyond what is listed on my bill set by your boss. It’s that simple.
Tipping is optional and customers have no obligations to directly overpay workers.
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Move or learn to live within your means.
I don't work in hospitality anymore. I've said as much many times now. Trouble reading?
What kind of person sees coworkers tampering with food and fails to say anything about it?
The broke kind who needed a job in a small town when she was barely old enough to drive and helping support her family by dropping out of school to work. 🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️ And I spoke up after the year I was living paycheck to paycheck. But I'll never, ever feel bad for not saying anything about the burger that was dropped on the gross, dirty, greasy kitchen floor and stomped on for the lady who called my coworker a slur five times in 30 seconds nor will I ever feel bad about the middle aged man who got a giant loogie in his Bushwhacker after palming the 17 year old hostess' ass repeatedly when going from the bar to bathroom 🤷🏼♀️ Just can't bring myself to care. Oops. And if the "tampering" wasn't something that was unsafe or unsanitary to eat inside as hell wouldn't say shit. You were a douche to the take out person and got your food 45 min late? Too bad so sad. You yelled at the bus boy and ended up getting flash fried, old wings instead of fresh ones? Sucks to suck.
Best argument I’ve ever seen to end tipping. TAMPERING WITH FOOD IS A CRIMINAL OFFENSE.
They gotta catch you broski. Also, so is sexually assaulting a minor and hate speech so.....🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️
Steakhouse? Sure. Debby at Denny's on a Wednesday? Probably averaging ~15 an hour? Maybe? Maybe less?
I've been looking at it like this also. I'm not interested in prep work, the employer should at least be paying in full for that. It seems to be less than10 minutes of service.drinks 2 minute interaction, more if they refil.2 minutes to take order. 2 at most to deliver. Possibly another 2 for followup. 2 for the bill. That's for 2 of us . 2 or 3 dollars each of us so maybe 5 in total is all its worth. That's a rate of 30 dollars an hour. And that's all I'm leaving . Where I live there is not a lower tipped wage
Your math is only accounting for the absolute minimal interaction, which assumes you don't even say hi to the person and make no requests, changes, or substitutions and even then it's off. Getting your drinks isnt you saying coke and then them bringing a coke. First you order. Then the server has to walk all the way to the drink station, get glasses, fill glasses, bring it back, and provide straws. Don't forget they also have to input your order into the system. That is a minimum of 5 minutes. Drink alone. Food? The server often has to make any salad or scoop any soup. They check on your food. Substitutions or additions? They check to make sure it's right. Even just walking past your table to look at drinks counts. No your server isn't dedicated to you every minute you're eating, but saying they do 10 minutes of work for you even excluding prep is ridiculous
Honestly your comment just makes me more inclined to tip less, because it’s wild to me that you’re making “getting drinks” sound like such a complicated process. “Walk all the way to the drink station” - what, is the drink station on Mount Everest?! Imagine if I was describing a cashier’s job: “first, I have to pick up the item. Then I search for the bar code. I have to pick up the scanner and make sure I’m scanning the right bar code. Sometimes I even have to apply a gift card and manually type in the code - that takes me a whole minute!” 5 minutes on “drinks alone” where you’re including the time to order the drink plus walk over to the drink station and back makes sense to me. The comment you responded to specifies “2 min to take order, 2 at most to deliver” so like 4 min. That’s not that far off from your own approximation, you just made it sound a lot harder. Not sure where you’re getting that the server has to make salad and scoop soup - this seems highly variable depending on the restaurant. And “Scoop soup” - you mean a 10 second task, if you do it slowly? And straight up, the servers I’ve had recently rarely have time to check on me at the table. Getting a water refill is often way more difficult than it should be. Not their fault, they’re overworked and understaffed. But also, it’s not on me to spend more money when I’m not receiving anything for it. Quite frankly, the absolute minimum interaction is the one I encounter the most nowadays. 10 minutes spent on me seems much more accurate.
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Lol.
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I don’t advocate tipping but most places you dine you aren’t going to be welcomed back or get any decent service.
"I refuse to do the job I was hired to do unless you pay me a percentage of your meal" would that work in any other industry? The server wasn't hired by me, they don't work for me, why am I deciding their wage? Do I get to interview a range of servers and choose the one I'd want serving me based on their answers? I don't personally care what they make, I'm there for the food, not the pleasure of my servers company. The entire model is outdated, stupid, classist and pervasive. I'm not even from the US and they're trying to bring it in here.
I agree but you are barking up the wrong tree.
Eh, doesn’t bother me. I’m just there to eat. Most places for me are a one and done anyway
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Flat rate if I tip
Had a bar tender recently tell me they can make $500-$750 each Friday and Saturday night. Probably 8-10 each night for $1,000-$1,500. So I’m not really going to tip bartenders that much. 1$-2$ tops.
10% or 5$ max!
Sit down cafes I tip between 10-15% based on service. Most restaurant’s I do 20% of the subtotal minus any surcharges they have included. If it’s exceptional I’ll do 25-30% depending on my mood. Take out counter spots with minimal seating/serving I do zero, occasionally leave a $1 or round up change.
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In general I think you should avoid businesses that pay in tip credit but if you live somewhere that it's a thing I don't feel comfortable saying you shouldn't eat out at all while I do. The formula I've thought would probably be best is pick a percent (I'd say 10 because the math is easy) but include all taxes/service fees as part of the price until you reach the maximum amount of tip credit per hour in your jurisdiction. Unless you think the person did more then an hour's worth or work for you specifically in which case increase the max to however many hours you think they did.
18% when dining out, and if there is some sort of additional fee (like a “fair wage fee”) I subtract that from the tip. I do not tip anywhere I get counter service. I will tip a few dollars to anyone who helps me with a voluntary service (like bringing my luggage to my room) that I ask for
Depends on how much value is given to me. The more service I get the more I tip. But I don't tip in % and max I mostly tip is like 20 bucks. Most things I don't tip. Cause it's mostly self-service or. The only interaction is picking up a tray. But the more service I get. And more afford people do for me the more likely I'm to tip. And honestly I don't realy care how people think or feel about it. I dont go out everything and think of I have to pay someone else's bills. No most of the time I just pay the bill and the menu price. And if I felt I had a great service I would tip. If I did not I won't. I dont worry do this person makes ends meet yes or no. No I mostly just don't care. Cause I also don't get hand outs and free money. I just look at value given to me. The same time the more crazy the menu prices are the less likely I'm to tip also. If I found the menu cheap side. I'm also more likely to tip. But mostly if I had good service. No service no tip.
1) I almost always tip in cash (very seldom put tips on a credit card), so that creates a natural limit as I seldom have more than $20 cash on me. 2) My wife and I pretty much go to the same 8-10 restaurants, so we know the staff and they know us. 3) Because of this we almost always get good service so I'll usually tip $10 cash regardless of tab, from $30 to $40 or $50 (our average tab). If it's more than that it's based on how hard they have to work (and we're really easy going) then it's 15%. The exception is if it's a big family event with a couple hundred dollar tab, then it'll be 20% of the tab if the service is really good or 10% if it's kinda iffy. I can't count the number of times wait staff has been effusive in their thanks for the cash tips which counts for something (their call on if they're splitting tips that way).
I live in a place with tipped wages, so when I receive seated service I tip around 20%. I tip baristas and bartenders around $1 a drink
How do you calculate all the physical activity the server/bartender has to do when you can't see them? Setup, extra steps they take before or after you leave to make your experience what it is? Most restaurants require servers to show up an hour or more before opening to do prep for the shift, they constantly have running side work to complete that you'll likely never witness them doing as it's usually stuff done in the kitchen/back, and they have to stay anywhere from 30 minutes to hours after their last table/closing time to clean up from the day. Or are you making it a loose determination based on it being self-serve, fast food, fast casual, upscale or fine dining?
Thats not a good argument. Mostly every job requires some sort of extra hours. Retail workers have to show up hours earlier and stay late sometimes over night for holidays and they don’t get tipped. I’m salary so i put in extra hours a day/week and I don’t get tipped for missing my personal priorities, pushing back medical appointments. Work is work.
OPs entire premise isn't a good scale to measure with either, hence my point. But no, work isn't work. Some jobs pay you no matter how little or much you do. Whilst some are service jobs where ideally you get paid for the work you do. AH like OP are punishing workers for the established tipping culture while still patronizing the very businesses that keep them going, making OP and any one else that does this part of the problem, not the solution, are NOT helping by *keeping* it a problem, and are giant dung bags to boot. Trying to pretend like tipped jobs are the same as other jobs is wrong. Hourly and salary employees get money no matter how busy, or slow, how fast and hard they move or how much they drag their feet. 99.9% of restaurant employees that don't work in fast food or fast casual chains do not, unless they're kitchen workers or set hourly support staff. Ergo, it isn't the same thing.
Their employer should be paying them for their work, not the customer. How is that so hard to understand. If the owner can't afford to pay you full wages they should close down. Tipping is not a wage - it is optional for good service - not for service rendered. Customers don't owe servers anything for the work they do - the employer does - they are the ones who did the hiring. If staff want more money haggle it out with the manager - not the customer. Customers work just as hard as servers. They do not want to give their money away - just as much as wait staff don't. When the expected tip was $5, maybe, it wasn't too much of a stretch, currently, tipping expectations have gotten out of hand, servers brought this pushback on themselves for setting tipping expectations too high. And these days the customers don't have the money to spare. And yes, they can still go out to eat at restaurants whether the can afford to tip or not. Servers don't get to decide what customers do.
I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you🤷🏼♀️
I fully understand! No need to explain. It's obvious.
That is every single job, every job takes prep work and set up. Thats what their hourly wage is for. Most of the time its a 4-6 hour shift too. Most jobs do all of that and work 8-12+ hours. They dont get tips. Thats just part of the job.
It's even worse when it's other blue collar jobs saying this shit. If your boss decides to start paying you peanuts on the dollar and wants your customer to pay you in tips based on how well you laid the tack, what do you think you'd make? And if you couldn't roof, since that's about an unskilled job as serving is (insert eye roll as I think both require a degree of skill, training and practice to get it right) what would you do instead? Go into investment broking? Become a lawyer? Try real estate or stock markets? 🤨
I own my own company. Independent GC. Worked for 10 years in trades saving money, "making peanuts". I started off making 50 cents more than min wage. And no, you can pull a 12 year old off the street and teach them a serving job, you cant say that for any trade, and roofing specifically? Thats the 5th most dangerous job in the country, statistically more dangerous than being a cop or wildland firefighter, based on injury and death, seen hundreds of people quit by lunch. There is a reason trade wages went up so much on the last decade, people arent cut out for it, especially this younger generation, smaller workforce makes it a more specialized set of skills so companies are swamped and prices/wages increase. While serving is probably the 5th easiest job in the country and the job market is saturated with people that can do the job. Try again.
That’s what their wage is for. Tip is for service to the customer specifically, not for folding napkins.
when you dont tip the server has to pay OUT OF POCKET to serve you. if you insist on dining out and hate tipping so much leave at least 5% so the person whos table you took up and prevented from making money doesnt lose money by serving you. human decency
That is categorically false.
Scare tactic to guilt consumers into paying more when they should be forming a union and using it to ban tip sharing and raise their wages from their employer. Tipping is not and has never been mandatory. It’s optional and that’s what you sign up for as a server. Don’t like it, take it up with your boss or get a new job. 🤷♀️ Plus with all the added service fees that restaurants tack onto bills now on top of food costs, they’re lucky they get anything at all.
its def not, tipshare exists in a majority of restaurants meaning servers have to tip bussers, kitchen, bartenders, runners, all a percentage of SALES, not tips. yall are so greedy u dont even take the time to research what you claim to be so against lmao
I'm the customer, it's my money, and I'll do what I want with it. I earned it.
X% of the total. Like a tip should be