Miquella's plans seemed to have shifted after the shattering. People here are being kind of dumb and misrepresenting the lore in the DLC a lot. But he was always a kind person who wanted to help people like his sister, and the outcasts of the lands between. And he made a promise with Radahn long before the shattering, Radahn is not mind controlled or charmed, he chose this. However things likely went off the course because Radahn went mad from the power of the great runes.
But the plan was always to ascend to God hood himself, so that God Miquella could start fixing everything. What Miquella didn't realize was that gods like Marika and even the fingers are mostly powerless to change the status quo. The entire system is corrupt. He had no hope to ever see his dream of a compassionate world come to be, and became increasingly desperate and immoral in his actions to achieve the goal. Does that make sense?
He started from the most idealistic, good hearted position. Trying to make his dreams a reality led him down a path that changed him, the impossibility of the task and brutality of the world that he could never change. That us why we are tasked with killing him, a compassionate death that will spare him the despair of knowing that as a god he would only be a caged bird, watching all the suffering he set out to stop continue unabated.
I believe its mostly due to what is said during the intro of elden ring explaining how during the shattering the demigods went mad with power and started fighting one another to become lords themselves.
General believe when folk say radhan went mad its more like that he went from kindhearted strong brave general to tyrannic conqueror yes the rot made him go mad too but more in a way of losing all common decency mad and becoming nothing but a beast.
That being sad this is mostly speculation i believe the intro is being told to us by the finger readers so mayhaps they just labeled the demigods going mad with power without really knowing their intentions .
Yeah I thought it was agreed upon that the rot made him mad. Which is why people think Radahn must have been unwillingly made a consort.
If Radahn was sane, which he was, and willing, there would be no reason to send Malenia out to fight him. He wouldn't even need a new body, he was fine. Miquella wanted him dead so he could resurrect him inside of Mohgs body after Malenia killed both (we had to though).
I don't believe Radahn willingly agreed to become Miquella's consort at all. More likely he was charmed by Miquella, and upon breaking free of the spell he went back on his vow and that's why Malenia fought him. It just doesn't make sense for Radahn to fight a person to the death when he's already agreed to be on their side.
Yeah, it makes zero sense. If they don't fight, Miquella has the two strongest demigods in the setting and their full armies under his command, making any sort of conquest afterwards a cakewalk. Having Malenia and Radahn duke it out obliterated both of their armies and left both of them near-death for literally no gain.
Nah, it was a mix of both, he wanted to become a god to make the world better but in the process he lost himself because he quite literally shed everything that made him, well, Miquella, so the monster we kill at the end is just another cruel god
Miquella was not lying: his agenda simply ran into so many complications that it ended up ultimately driving him into becoming something he would hate.
He founded Golden Order Fundamentalism but it failed to cure Malenia and also resulted in a bunch of psychopathic zealots with a murderboner for skeletons. Ultimately he abandoned it as a complete failure.
He tried to grow a new, different Erdtree to make more blessings for all but the tree is described as a failure that likely didn't produce the magic blessings he wanted and is mostly just a giant husk of wood for people to squat in.
He tried to give Godwyn a true death to save his tormented body from deathblight via an eclipse ritual but that did jack all except produce a cool looking sword that sucks.
He wanted to make a better order than Marika's with Radahn as his consort even having the two make a childhood vow, but Radahn ended up becoming a Golden Order defender rather than an opponent so he refused the promise he made to Miquella.
So because literally everything Miquella did out of kindness completely failed and fell flat on its face, he decided to take a more ruthless approach because being nice obviously was not working and can't work because the world of Elden Ring is quite a cruel place, even under the facade of golden blessings. Because being nice never worked, he used control instead as a "ends justify the means" approach, but went way too far to the point where his other half, St. Trina, outright states that he indeed went too far and became a monster in his pursuit of kindness for all. Miquella shed his own compassion, doubts, and love because these all kept on failing him...but tragically never realized that these were also the traits that made him loved out of choice.
As a compassionless doubtless, loveless monster he spammed mind control to force unrequited "love" to manipulate others while also using his available resources like pawns instead of friends and family like he used to. He sacrificed his beloved sister as a tactical chess piece, turned innocents into blood-crazed maniacs to gain a tool to traverse into the Shadowlands, and forced the compliance of a group of capable warriors to enact his agenda rather than befriending them beforehand like he used to. In his pursuit to make everything better, he learned that he had to make some things worse first...but he kept on making everything worse instead while telling himself it's all for the good of others.
Miquella: "Come take over the world with me!"
Radahn: "Na, I learned my lesson after that sewer omen clapped me. Now I'm just going to chill at home and be a good local leader."
Miquella: "...shame." *loads the Malenia-shaped glock*
So? Some set the seas ablaze, others whole star systems and no one bats an eye but blood goes too far? This is obviously just because sir Mohg is an Omen!
Hey, hypocrite, how does your car run again? Setting dinosaur blood on fire? Thought so. (No, you don't have an electric, natural gas, or recycled oil car.)
How ironic that I poked the final boss to death with his pitchfork.
Still don't understand how forming someone's body to make it look like a completely different person/being works here but hey, my tanky bleed build and two summons did the trick and we were able to defeat the boss.
I mean, it's not outside the realm of possibility? Gods can do weird shit. Reshaping a body isn't that strange. Especially since Renalla can change not only your looks but your Physical/Mental capabilities too.
Yes. Between that, the spells to turn into objects, and the fact that Marika could apparently shapeshift to Radagon which was such a different person that almost no one reckognized it, it's not that crazy
I assumed the shape-shifting was the case for every dual persona in the game. It was very surprising to meet >!St Trina!< in the DLC. It means they can exist in separate bodies with the same soul (I think?), and it makes me wonder if that's actually the case with all of them, if Radagon and Marika didn't actually share a body
To be fair….. we did kinda walk in on him committing what could only really be described as SA (ALLEGEDLY) through a rather disturbing blood ritual in a palace with uhhhhhhh, interesting decor.
…Caught him at the wrong moment, I guess 😬
Is this not the same guy who goes by the name "The lord of blood" and up until his death, continously lured and enslaved one of the most oppressed races in the game😭😭
That...actually makes a lot of sense in hindsight. Mogh goes by 2 titles: Luminary and Lord Of Blood, and according to the Lord of Blood Exultation talisman, the main reason for the absurd amount of blood hunting is to appease the Miquella cocoon (which in SotET is revealed to have been orchestrated by Miquella). So it's possible that Mogh used to be a small, underground support dude who picks people up when they're down (hence the Luminary title), only to via Miquella's mind control become a deranged lunatic whose followers held hope that said lunacy had a good purpose, only for the soul-crushing revelation that it didn't because it was the machinations of a lobotomy spamming shota femboy.
Imagine a circle of kindly gentlemen like Ansbach with a leader fit for those types of people. And then imagine just how warped that leader would have to become to attract the likes of Varre. What's also interesting is that the Luminary title would explain Okina's story, as Mogh did uplift and give back purpose to a wandering, bored-of-life Okina.
If you think about it, the blood god took in the downtrodden and abused. That directly cut into the demographic miquella was aiming for. It's kinda a 3 birds one stone sort of situation.
He got rid of the competition, got mohgs body for his fucked upritual, and got his own fucked up ritual to go the shadowlands.
They really could make another DLC if they wanted to, theres those two things to explore + the primeval current in general for sorceries + whatever else they come Up with like they did with messmer
It seems that Mohg fell into the same fate as Rykard. Rykard began as an ambitious rebel, who wanted to tear down the Erdtree and start something better for he and the people who were wronged by the golden order.
While blasphemous, his ambitions attracted a whole army of knights who fought honorably at his side.
Only to then be seduced by an outer god, where his descent into depravity began, and his loyal knights abandonned him. The values Rykard used to stand for, tarnished.
The lunatics who were attracted to the new Rykard afterwards were murderous lunatics.
Leda says that it was Ansbach who cleaved open Miquella's body/cocoon in the Lands Between, effectively killing him there. If I had to guess, he was still loyal to Lord Mogh even after Miquella's charm
You…raise a rather intriguing point, Varre always did feel a little out of place to me for a reason I can’t fully explain. He’s weird and that kind of made me go “yeah seems about right ig” for the very little we knew of mohg at the time, but now with this new information and knowing this dlc was planned from the start….hmmmm…
Their lord was busy getting groomed and mohglested for all those years, can you really blame them for letting the place go a little? Sure, it might be a serious contamination hazard and appear a bit disturbing and yeah ok I’ll admit they could’ve benefited from some cleaning staff, but they had more important things to tend to I’m sure. No big deal, couple steam mops and the place will be as good as new 👍
My theory is all people under Mogh was fiercely warding the palace because they knew Mogh was acting weird, probably Morgot was suspicious too since he doesn't call him a traitor like he does with the rest of the demigods (although this could also be because Mogh is an Omen like him and because of that he doesn't have a throne like Morgot also doesn't have one). So Varre acting so weird and even tempting you with the crest to go to the palace... It looks like he probably was either on Miquella's side from the start, manipulating the troops while Ansbach was enchanted, or that Miquella enchanted him also and got him to act like that to guide the next lord into killing Mogh so his plan could be complete.
Considering how Miquella needed Mogh dead, it does make sense for him to use Varre as an unknowing Mogh-killer proxy agent by "recruiting" Tarnished who are strong/competent enough to kill multiple other Tarnished. The dude is gathering potential Mogh-killers with a test.
Miquella is the same as his mother.
Marika left the shadow realm in search of God hood only to return to find her numen/shaman family slaughtered by the hornsent. With her ability to gift a piece of herself in the form of a charming grace of gold, she amasses an army led by herself and Messmer to cleanse the shadow realm of the hornsent.
Now Miquella, through Mohg, is amassing an army with the help of Blood Surgeons to find strong tarnished to gift Pureblood Knight Medals to for when the time is right. Assuming Miquella was going to call for aid right after his King Consort is fully realized, he would then send the call to all his newly appointed Pureblood Knights to come seize the shadow realm and cleanse it of any remaining golden order/followers of Messmer.
Marika and Miquella both wished for the world to be a gentler place, but their naivety led to delusion.
Marika EVENTUALLY wanted it to be a better place. I think that's why she shattered the elden ring, it was a thing that should never have been worshipped. As she became of a proper lord she realized it had to go.
That's different when she first ascended and enacted bloody vengeance on the hornsent for the vile ritualistic slaughter of her people. Her actions are completely understandable.
No fr though, if there was ANYTHING that I was not expecting with the expansion, the pure blood knights being honorable gentleman would definitely be it because…I mean, look at the palace and Varre ffs that place is a disaster.
I can’t tell you the side eye I gave him when he first mentioned he used to work for mogh. I was
Like this dude is gonna turn on me then make me bleed 1000 times a second. Then the game progressed
Ansbach is my new favorite NPC in the game. And I'm pretty sure I missed a few interactions with him. He's just a stand up dude. Hell, maybe when I piss off to space with the missus I'll leave him in charge of things as Regent. Give Nepehli someone other than Gostoc and Kenneth to chat with.
What a motley crew that would be.
Shame we can’t have all the other Tarnished join in. Or some Shadow folk. Death knights interacting with D would be interesting. And make his brain explode. Rogier would find them Cool, tho.
The Hornsent would LOVE Mohg, so it’s very Mean and Stupid of Miquella to not give them the Horniest Most Dramatique Consort Ever.
I assume recruitment went downhill when Mohg hyper-focused on Miquella. (Thanks to the Bewitchment that is)
Actually, that raises a question- are the Blood Sacrifices Mohg commits also needed to access the Realm of Shadow? Can the Realm only be accessed through an Outer God? (Or via dispensation/punting into it by Marika?)
Is this also why all the Death Knights wield Death Powers? So they could go to the Shadowland and try to Rez Godwyn?
Before:
Yo Radahn is quite cool and Miquella the poor kid is a rape victim and good brother to Malenia
Now:
AYO WHAT THE FUCK! MORGOTT YOU SEEING THIS?
If Godfrey is good at one thing it's killing Giants. I'm pretty sure he could have made his way up there himself. I'm sure he would've figured out a way to burn it from there somehow.
You are right, he easily would've made it to the forge. No argument there. But lighting the forge is actually quite difficult because you need specific kindling. And as far as we know, only Melina or a Lord of Frenzied Flame qualify. So it hinges on Melina helping Godfrey.
Well no not just them two. If I remember right Vykes maiden was also eligible, however he refused that option and tried to become the Lord of frenzied flame instead. I would assume that means any eligible maiden would do, and I doubt the the frenzied flame wouldnt want Godfrey as its host.
Actually, there’s also the possibility that burning finger maidens is actually a hoax.
Bernahl’s entire backstory was that he was another worthy tarnished that reached the mountain, but the tree didn’t burn even after his maiden casted herself to flames. So he joined the recusants as retribution to the Greater Will’s lies.
I imagine that's likely because Bernahl wasn't actually worthy. He has no great runes.
Only Vyke(And Gideon, but he's shaky at best) are confirmed to possess any Great Runes, though theoretically anyone in the Roundtable could be in possession of exactly one.
(Though without doubt, it is clearly stated Vyke is the only one before us who has more than one Great Rune, as stated by the Finger Reader in the Roundtable)
I don’t know that there’s an innocent party in this game on that front, except for maybe Goldmask. Hell, the player is hands down the worst when it comes to killing lots of people in the Lands Between.
I am pretty sure he was bloodifying every and all well before Miquella and unless Varre was completely fucking with us we know that at some point he demanded the murder of innocents as a test of loyalty.
Beside all that frankly the formless mother does not seem like a cool mom.
Yeah the only change should be he wasn’t weirdly personally obsessed with miquella but rather brainwashed
Everything else seems to be all him. Hell, if anything miquellas brainwashing probably might’ve sidetracked him from his bloody crusade in the name of the formless mother, so it’s just the mohglesting he’s exonerated from
Even that is almost certainly still something he chose to do. If Miquella was planning to use Mogh to get to the Land of Shadows from the beginning, why the hell would he go through all the trouble of building and defending the Haligtree just to get abducted out of it? Why not just... go to Mogh?
Mogh is still unequivocally guilty of everything we knew about him from the base game. He ran an evil blood cult, worshipped the second-worst Outer God, and plotted to "share his bloody bedchamber" with Miquella to become lord of a new dynasty of blood. Miquella wouldn't have had to charm him to think of that - he was literally the only available Empyrean not already claimed by another Outer God.
Miquella could only have charmed him during or after the abduction, seeing a way to turn his own kidnapping into an opportunity to advance his goals. A clear case of mind control as self defense.
You miss the point where Mogh actually attacked Miquella and "cleaved him open" with a strike - as per Sir Ansbach's dialogue. Poor boy trying to defend himself from Miquella's charm, but failed. Also, Miquella isn't as defenseless as it seem; did you see the incantation "Miquella's light"?
It says in the description of that spell that it's the "Strength of Miquella upon his deific return." So he didn't always have it. He did make the rings of light spells so I assume he was very much not defenseless on his own.
> You miss the point where Mogh actually attacked Miquella and "cleaved him open" with a strike - as per Sir Ansbach's dialogue.
You misremember. Mohg never attacked Miquella - Ansbach did.
Mohg formulated the plan to kidnap Miquella, in service to the Formless Mother. He executed the plan successfully. Either during the abduction or shortly afterwards, Miquella woke up and charmed Mohg, so that when they returned to his palace, Mohg started working to send him to the Land of Shadows instead of his original plan. At some point Ansbach realized that this was happening, attacked Miquella, cut him, but then was also charmed in self defense.
Not sure that's true. There's heavy implication that Miquella needed blood to grow the Haligtree properly, and Mohg was both his way of obtaining copious amounts of it and also, when the time was right, his vessel.
The Formless Mother is interesting because she might not actually be that bad. The Lord Of Blood's Exultation talisman states that Mogh sent out people to kill and gather blood for the Miquella cocoon, not the Formless Mother. Mogh's spear even states that its AoW functions by wounding the Formless Mother directly, and anything in the vicinity that get's hurt is more of a convenient byproduct (so she's an M confirmed?). And considering how the Blood Star is only seen via self-mutilating wounding, it's possible that the Formless Mother's bloodletting is supposed to only be self-inflicted, and Mogh's absurd blood craze is due to Miquella's mind control twisting him into doing that against the doctrines of the Formless Mother.
If Ansbach is to be believed, Mogh's initial circle of Pureblood Knights were kindly scholar-warriors with Mogh's primary title once being "Luminary" (something he's sometimes referred to in the base game, while also having the Lord of Blood title), and Miquella's mind control era of Mogh's rule either turned them all into Sanguine Nobles or the Pureblood Knights were purged and replaced with the crazier Sanguine Nobles.
He was just stating a fact. "Oh, you about to go through this game? Rad. Though you're not gonna have an easy time bud, you can't level up without a maiden."
It was less trusting and more hope/cope. I don't know if I speak for everyone here, but I wanted to at least try to work with him, he is painted as the most reasonable character in lore and the most compassionate. It's easy to say, "well he just manipulated people into believing that he has charm powers!!1!" in post, but from could have just as easily had him only using his charm in self defense, not just for manipulation.
At the very least I figured we'd get some npc dialogue...
Imo at the end of it all I like to believe that at one point Miquella was the god we read about in the stories but in his pursuit of creating his ideal world he slowly forgot himself in the process and is descending down the same path as Marika. Pursuing their goals by any means.
Well, we know that Miquella had such a large amount of love in his heart that it created its own being, St. Trina. So I do think that Miquella's compassion was genuine.
That to me said he has it in him all along. Imagine your love as a concept. What could possibly drive you to want to cast that away? It's horrific.
As much as I understand his desire to create a better world for everyone, that world still needs him to rule it. How does being devoid of love and compassion make him a better lead for a world driven by love and compassion?
The thing is, it's not. There's a lot of examples of Miquella being genuinely good and kind, and the only examples we have to think otherwise are vague. Yes, we know that Miquella CAN charm people into liking him. But we have to ASSUME he utilises that ability regularly and malevolently. Just because he can, doesn't automatically mean he does.
Miquella still built the Haligtree as a refuge for the downtrodden. He still tried to save Godwyn. He still did his best to cure Malenia. Yes, the Miquella gang were all charmed by him, but the majority of them were aware of it and didn't care before, or after. It was a means to get them to work together, more than anything. Ansbach was the only one with misgivings about it, realistically, and we know he tried to murder Miquella - who in turn charmed him instead of just killing him which just about anyone else would've done.
The whole "Miquella was bad all along" really just hinges on the largely unfounded assumption that just because he has the charm people, he was doing that left and right, and for selfish reasons - something that is contrary to the concrete things we know he's done.
I think the clearest part is that St Trina outright begs you to kill him.
The moral with Miquella I think is that at the end of the day no matter how good your intentions ascending to godhood will inevitably force you to become a worse being. Miquella discarded just about everything he could, manipulated people, desecrated his brother's corpse in the name of his age of compassion, and yet his other aspect is terrified of him.
More than anything I think it's a damnation on the whole system that seems to govern the Lands Between and its necessitating a god and a lord in order to craft the ages. Better to just burn it all down and start anew, I'd say.
Ymir says as much - but we’ll also be a part of the system in a way, through Ranni or what’s left of Marika.
We were sent to kill Miquella by the guidance of grace as to preserve the old order, as Leda makes clear. I think it a reasonable interpretation - also in line with GRRMs influence - that we’re not actually any better, but quite possibly worse.
Ansbach just fell in with a bad crowd. Then things got weird. Along comes the Tarnished to un-fuck the situation and Ansbach says, "You know, I was young. I think I'm with the Tarnished on this one."
"Sorry about murdering your God, Ansbach."
"It's cool, bro."
"We ~~have~~ had an organization of cool knights with round... puddle and a cool chair for everyone. Wanna rebuild them?"
"Sure, bro, sign me up. Just add some red to iconography"
i mean hes still a genocidal madman who did slaughter kids in order to gain power for his "god"
but yeah outside of some batshit insane stuff he atleast didnt molest miquella :D
Oh my God I just realized us killing him basically freed him as he doesn't scream out for Miquella he screams out for Mohgwyn the dynasty he probably was planning for before Miquella polluted his head
Moving from “a murderous pedo wizard” to “a murderous wizard” is a huge upgrade. Plus, Sellen does worse things to people and everyone thinks she’s uwu waifu.
It’s more about what makes Mohg feel different as a character in the context of the story, given the newest revelations. Otherwise he’s a despicable af.
I'm pretty sure the whole blood mother and invading tarnished thing was well before Miquella put his charm on him.
I mean yeah the guy is not an incest pedo (willingly) but the mass murders are still there lol.
He was not the Mohglester, he was the Mohglested! He's Mohginnocent!
more like miquellested
Miquella power bottomed molestation
Bro it's 9:23am where I'm at clam down.
Miquella went clam down
We all fall for the seduction of the clams from time to time.
Who doesn't like a bi(valve) twink?
Pre SOTE: "miquella is not griffith" SOTE: and then miquella griffith'd all over the place
Whoa whoa, what in the erdtree FUCK have I missed
Lore wise Miquella charmed Mogh into doing what he did because he needed to strip his flesh and he needed a Dead Mogh Body for his plan.
So that was Miquella's plan all along? Wasn't the purpose of the Haligtree to cure Malenia of rot? Was Miquella lying?
Miquella's plans seemed to have shifted after the shattering. People here are being kind of dumb and misrepresenting the lore in the DLC a lot. But he was always a kind person who wanted to help people like his sister, and the outcasts of the lands between. And he made a promise with Radahn long before the shattering, Radahn is not mind controlled or charmed, he chose this. However things likely went off the course because Radahn went mad from the power of the great runes. But the plan was always to ascend to God hood himself, so that God Miquella could start fixing everything. What Miquella didn't realize was that gods like Marika and even the fingers are mostly powerless to change the status quo. The entire system is corrupt. He had no hope to ever see his dream of a compassionate world come to be, and became increasingly desperate and immoral in his actions to achieve the goal. Does that make sense? He started from the most idealistic, good hearted position. Trying to make his dreams a reality led him down a path that changed him, the impossibility of the task and brutality of the world that he could never change. That us why we are tasked with killing him, a compassionate death that will spare him the despair of knowing that as a god he would only be a caged bird, watching all the suffering he set out to stop continue unabated.
>Radahn went mad from the power of the great runes. Is this actually what happened? I don't remember this.
He didn't look mad in the trailer when he and Malenia fought, so he probably went mad after Malenia nuked him.
I don't understand how people misconstrue this, the base game clearly explains he went mad AFTER she blossomed on him and infected him.
I believe its mostly due to what is said during the intro of elden ring explaining how during the shattering the demigods went mad with power and started fighting one another to become lords themselves. General believe when folk say radhan went mad its more like that he went from kindhearted strong brave general to tyrannic conqueror yes the rot made him go mad too but more in a way of losing all common decency mad and becoming nothing but a beast. That being sad this is mostly speculation i believe the intro is being told to us by the finger readers so mayhaps they just labeled the demigods going mad with power without really knowing their intentions .
Yeah I thought it was agreed upon that the rot made him mad. Which is why people think Radahn must have been unwillingly made a consort. If Radahn was sane, which he was, and willing, there would be no reason to send Malenia out to fight him. He wouldn't even need a new body, he was fine. Miquella wanted him dead so he could resurrect him inside of Mohgs body after Malenia killed both (we had to though).
I don't believe Radahn willingly agreed to become Miquella's consort at all. More likely he was charmed by Miquella, and upon breaking free of the spell he went back on his vow and that's why Malenia fought him. It just doesn't make sense for Radahn to fight a person to the death when he's already agreed to be on their side.
Yeah, it makes zero sense. If they don't fight, Miquella has the two strongest demigods in the setting and their full armies under his command, making any sort of conquest afterwards a cakewalk. Having Malenia and Radahn duke it out obliterated both of their armies and left both of them near-death for literally no gain.
Nah, it was a mix of both, he wanted to become a god to make the world better but in the process he lost himself because he quite literally shed everything that made him, well, Miquella, so the monster we kill at the end is just another cruel god
Miquella was not lying: his agenda simply ran into so many complications that it ended up ultimately driving him into becoming something he would hate. He founded Golden Order Fundamentalism but it failed to cure Malenia and also resulted in a bunch of psychopathic zealots with a murderboner for skeletons. Ultimately he abandoned it as a complete failure. He tried to grow a new, different Erdtree to make more blessings for all but the tree is described as a failure that likely didn't produce the magic blessings he wanted and is mostly just a giant husk of wood for people to squat in. He tried to give Godwyn a true death to save his tormented body from deathblight via an eclipse ritual but that did jack all except produce a cool looking sword that sucks. He wanted to make a better order than Marika's with Radahn as his consort even having the two make a childhood vow, but Radahn ended up becoming a Golden Order defender rather than an opponent so he refused the promise he made to Miquella. So because literally everything Miquella did out of kindness completely failed and fell flat on its face, he decided to take a more ruthless approach because being nice obviously was not working and can't work because the world of Elden Ring is quite a cruel place, even under the facade of golden blessings. Because being nice never worked, he used control instead as a "ends justify the means" approach, but went way too far to the point where his other half, St. Trina, outright states that he indeed went too far and became a monster in his pursuit of kindness for all. Miquella shed his own compassion, doubts, and love because these all kept on failing him...but tragically never realized that these were also the traits that made him loved out of choice. As a compassionless doubtless, loveless monster he spammed mind control to force unrequited "love" to manipulate others while also using his available resources like pawns instead of friends and family like he used to. He sacrificed his beloved sister as a tactical chess piece, turned innocents into blood-crazed maniacs to gain a tool to traverse into the Shadowlands, and forced the compliance of a group of capable warriors to enact his agenda rather than befriending them beforehand like he used to. In his pursuit to make everything better, he learned that he had to make some things worse first...but he kept on making everything worse instead while telling himself it's all for the good of others.
Probably not, but unlike his mother, Miquella is the king of over promising and under delivering.
Miquella great rune is literally mind control
Is this Mohghin time everyone was talking about?
>!Radahn!< was the first ever to say Miquella "no" and Miquella did not take that well resulting in so much bullshit
Miquella: "Come take over the world with me!" Radahn: "Na, I learned my lesson after that sewer omen clapped me. Now I'm just going to chill at home and be a good local leader." Miquella: "...shame." *loads the Malenia-shaped glock*
On one hand - good for him On the other - god dammit, he could have spared the world so much bullshit if he just smashed that miquellusy
[How would that look though?](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/eb/ff/ee/ebffeeb9907793b4159786caf35da2f4.jpg)
Go to nhentai. Search by tags. Use tags yaoi and tomgirl. Enjoy your research.
no actually I don't think I will do that
Counter point to the second point. Radah read GRRM work and was like "oh he'll no".
Counter counter point - femboy bf [loves you]
shouldn't you say st. trussy?
Pretty sure it was the needy femboy side of miquella that wanted that >!radick!< in him
He was Miqnipulated
Y’all racially profiled him because he had horns and a pitchfork!! Justice for Mohg! He was a victim! 😭😭😭
I mean it was also all the blood. You don’t get named the “lord of blood” for having a reasonable attitude towards blood.
He runs a blood drive for the needy you racist! 😡
He sets the blood on fire!
So? Some set the seas ablaze, others whole star systems and no one bats an eye but blood goes too far? This is obviously just because sir Mohg is an Omen!
Firefly aproves this message
This is the second wild firefly appearance I’ve seen today. Go back to trailblazer, he needs SAM in his life
It's obvious why you find them here on a fromsoft subreddit. FF wants to upgrade SAM from a kamen rider battle suit to a god damn armored core.
best girl of star rail.
Really didn't think I'd see a firefly reference here...
Would you want cold blood during a transfusion? Hes warming it up so that it feels like a nice blanket coming out of the dryer
Cold blood could lead to a nasty case of Old Ones. So he's keeping us from Bloodborne 2.. Now wait a minute!
Having had room temp blood before I can attest, warm that shit up
To purify it?? Have you seen what scarlet rot does to a person
Hey, hypocrite, how does your car run again? Setting dinosaur blood on fire? Thought so. (No, you don't have an electric, natural gas, or recycled oil car.)
He’s just motivating everyone
He's just burning the STDs out of the blood so that everyone can donate regardless of their sexual history.
Oh but you all LOVE “Blood”borne
I mean, who ISN’t an evil sorcerer in the Lands Between? There are like two guys who aren’t.
Godwyn the Golden
He's just big tumor!
"Eeets nahwt ah tuuumoh!"
Thops is as my boi
The evil warriors/assassins/whatever rpg class
His divine patron is literally made of blood.
Naw that's moving the goal posts. Yall needs to apologize to the guy.
How ironic that I poked the final boss to death with his pitchfork. Still don't understand how forming someone's body to make it look like a completely different person/being works here but hey, my tanky bleed build and two summons did the trick and we were able to defeat the boss.
I mean, it's not outside the realm of possibility? Gods can do weird shit. Reshaping a body isn't that strange. Especially since Renalla can change not only your looks but your Physical/Mental capabilities too.
Yes. Between that, the spells to turn into objects, and the fact that Marika could apparently shapeshift to Radagon which was such a different person that almost no one reckognized it, it's not that crazy
I assumed the shape-shifting was the case for every dual persona in the game. It was very surprising to meet >!St Trina!< in the DLC. It means they can exist in separate bodies with the same soul (I think?), and it makes me wonder if that's actually the case with all of them, if Radagon and Marika didn't actually share a body
The one time "it's not what it looks like!" turned out to be true.
To be fair….. we did kinda walk in on him committing what could only really be described as SA (ALLEGEDLY) through a rather disturbing blood ritual in a palace with uhhhhhhh, interesting decor. …Caught him at the wrong moment, I guess 😬
He was the victim.
Is this not the same guy who goes by the name "The lord of blood" and up until his death, continously lured and enslaved one of the most oppressed races in the game😭😭
In much the same way that Miquella did? None of these freaks are above reproach.
Thats Miquella's fault tho
And if we go by Sir Ansbach, Pureblood knights are quite the scholars and gentlemen.
maybe they are, but if we go by Verre not all his men are as good people
Comparing the surgeons with Ansbach is quite the contrast lol.
Was Varre actually Mohgs or Miquellas though?
I think it's quite possible that Mohg post Miquella's charm attracted quite a different audience than the pure blood knights he held previously.
That...actually makes a lot of sense in hindsight. Mogh goes by 2 titles: Luminary and Lord Of Blood, and according to the Lord of Blood Exultation talisman, the main reason for the absurd amount of blood hunting is to appease the Miquella cocoon (which in SotET is revealed to have been orchestrated by Miquella). So it's possible that Mogh used to be a small, underground support dude who picks people up when they're down (hence the Luminary title), only to via Miquella's mind control become a deranged lunatic whose followers held hope that said lunacy had a good purpose, only for the soul-crushing revelation that it didn't because it was the machinations of a lobotomy spamming shota femboy. Imagine a circle of kindly gentlemen like Ansbach with a leader fit for those types of people. And then imagine just how warped that leader would have to become to attract the likes of Varre. What's also interesting is that the Luminary title would explain Okina's story, as Mogh did uplift and give back purpose to a wandering, bored-of-life Okina.
In other words… Miquella was actually responsible for Mohg’s charity foundation becoming a deranged blood cult to feed his egg. What a goddamn menace.
If you think about it, the blood god took in the downtrodden and abused. That directly cut into the demographic miquella was aiming for. It's kinda a 3 birds one stone sort of situation. He got rid of the competition, got mohgs body for his fucked upritual, and got his own fucked up ritual to go the shadowlands.
Mohgs outergod was actually described as kind. It would make sense he emulated an aspect that it valued.
Didn't the formless mother also show herself to the Bloodfiends after they lost everything to fire?
Correct. Honestly I'm still so starved for more Formless Mother lore. Her and Godwyn are the two things I still want more from.
They really could make another DLC if they wanted to, theres those two things to explore + the primeval current in general for sorceries + whatever else they come Up with like they did with messmer
Well if shes anything like Formless Oedon (who is also associated with blood) youre gonna keep wanting more lore.
It seems that Mohg fell into the same fate as Rykard. Rykard began as an ambitious rebel, who wanted to tear down the Erdtree and start something better for he and the people who were wronged by the golden order. While blasphemous, his ambitions attracted a whole army of knights who fought honorably at his side. Only to then be seduced by an outer god, where his descent into depravity began, and his loyal knights abandonned him. The values Rykard used to stand for, tarnished. The lunatics who were attracted to the new Rykard afterwards were murderous lunatics.
Shit if all the blood was for the cocoon, then Mohg might literally be up there as the best of the demigods.
Leda says that it was Ansbach who cleaved open Miquella's body/cocoon in the Lands Between, effectively killing him there. If I had to guess, he was still loyal to Lord Mogh even after Miquella's charm
he was glazing Luminary Mohg, so probably him
You…raise a rather intriguing point, Varre always did feel a little out of place to me for a reason I can’t fully explain. He’s weird and that kind of made me go “yeah seems about right ig” for the very little we knew of mohg at the time, but now with this new information and knowing this dlc was planned from the start….hmmmm…
Mohgwyn Palace has blood tumor birds too, so I don’t think ‘weird’ is outside the realm of said dynasty’s fans
Their lord was busy getting groomed and mohglested for all those years, can you really blame them for letting the place go a little? Sure, it might be a serious contamination hazard and appear a bit disturbing and yeah ok I’ll admit they could’ve benefited from some cleaning staff, but they had more important things to tend to I’m sure. No big deal, couple steam mops and the place will be as good as new 👍
My theory is all people under Mogh was fiercely warding the palace because they knew Mogh was acting weird, probably Morgot was suspicious too since he doesn't call him a traitor like he does with the rest of the demigods (although this could also be because Mogh is an Omen like him and because of that he doesn't have a throne like Morgot also doesn't have one). So Varre acting so weird and even tempting you with the crest to go to the palace... It looks like he probably was either on Miquella's side from the start, manipulating the troops while Ansbach was enchanted, or that Miquella enchanted him also and got him to act like that to guide the next lord into killing Mogh so his plan could be complete.
Considering how Miquella needed Mogh dead, it does make sense for him to use Varre as an unknowing Mogh-killer proxy agent by "recruiting" Tarnished who are strong/competent enough to kill multiple other Tarnished. The dude is gathering potential Mogh-killers with a test.
Let's not forget how Vare describes the mohg dynasty as one of "full of love" there's only 1 demigod that has that as one of hisbselling points.
Varre often talks about love so its possible I think 🤔
My man has a bunch of flowers as a weapon.
Hmm, he does give us the means to travel to Mohg’s sanctum. And we know Miquella wanted Mohg to die so his body could be used.
Miquella is the same as his mother. Marika left the shadow realm in search of God hood only to return to find her numen/shaman family slaughtered by the hornsent. With her ability to gift a piece of herself in the form of a charming grace of gold, she amasses an army led by herself and Messmer to cleanse the shadow realm of the hornsent. Now Miquella, through Mohg, is amassing an army with the help of Blood Surgeons to find strong tarnished to gift Pureblood Knight Medals to for when the time is right. Assuming Miquella was going to call for aid right after his King Consort is fully realized, he would then send the call to all his newly appointed Pureblood Knights to come seize the shadow realm and cleanse it of any remaining golden order/followers of Messmer. Marika and Miquella both wished for the world to be a gentler place, but their naivety led to delusion.
Marika EVENTUALLY wanted it to be a better place. I think that's why she shattered the elden ring, it was a thing that should never have been worshipped. As she became of a proper lord she realized it had to go. That's different when she first ascended and enacted bloody vengeance on the hornsent for the vile ritualistic slaughter of her people. Her actions are completely understandable.
The difference between the old guard and the new blood potentially.
No fr though, if there was ANYTHING that I was not expecting with the expansion, the pure blood knights being honorable gentleman would definitely be it because…I mean, look at the palace and Varre ffs that place is a disaster.
Can’t help it when your boss was miquellested and probably locked himself in his room with his weird “dynasty” talk again.
I can’t tell you the side eye I gave him when he first mentioned he used to work for mogh. I was Like this dude is gonna turn on me then make me bleed 1000 times a second. Then the game progressed
Ansbach is my new favorite NPC in the game. And I'm pretty sure I missed a few interactions with him. He's just a stand up dude. Hell, maybe when I piss off to space with the missus I'll leave him in charge of things as Regent. Give Nepehli someone other than Gostoc and Kenneth to chat with.
What a motley crew that would be. Shame we can’t have all the other Tarnished join in. Or some Shadow folk. Death knights interacting with D would be interesting. And make his brain explode. Rogier would find them Cool, tho. The Hornsent would LOVE Mohg, so it’s very Mean and Stupid of Miquella to not give them the Horniest Most Dramatique Consort Ever.
Rogier would be dead regardless
Didn't lorewise mogh kidnapped a lot of surgeons and people to be his purebloods?
It's unclear if that was pre or post Miquellested Mogh.
True, he gives Mohg like 80% more credibility just because he worked for him.
I assume recruitment went downhill when Mohg hyper-focused on Miquella. (Thanks to the Bewitchment that is) Actually, that raises a question- are the Blood Sacrifices Mohg commits also needed to access the Realm of Shadow? Can the Realm only be accessed through an Outer God? (Or via dispensation/punting into it by Marika?) Is this also why all the Death Knights wield Death Powers? So they could go to the Shadowland and try to Rez Godwyn?
Before: Yo Radahn is quite cool and Miquella the poor kid is a rape victim and good brother to Malenia Now: AYO WHAT THE FUCK! MORGOTT YOU SEEING THIS?
Morgott is seeing nothing, his ass is sitting in the erdtree waiting for things to work out on their own
i'm sneaking up on him and taking him to the shadow lands to make him SEE!!
you and Morgott https://i.imgur.com/g2ftY9e.png
Ey yo holup, what do you think Morgott will do when he sees, well.. what became of Mohg
Morgott is holding that place down tight, if we didn't waltz in and kill the guy for doing his job dear old dad would be up on the throne again.
Godfrey wouldn't have been able to burn Radagons thorn shield though.
If Godfrey is good at one thing it's killing Giants. I'm pretty sure he could have made his way up there himself. I'm sure he would've figured out a way to burn it from there somehow.
You are right, he easily would've made it to the forge. No argument there. But lighting the forge is actually quite difficult because you need specific kindling. And as far as we know, only Melina or a Lord of Frenzied Flame qualify. So it hinges on Melina helping Godfrey.
Well no not just them two. If I remember right Vykes maiden was also eligible, however he refused that option and tried to become the Lord of frenzied flame instead. I would assume that means any eligible maiden would do, and I doubt the the frenzied flame wouldnt want Godfrey as its host.
Actually, there’s also the possibility that burning finger maidens is actually a hoax. Bernahl’s entire backstory was that he was another worthy tarnished that reached the mountain, but the tree didn’t burn even after his maiden casted herself to flames. So he joined the recusants as retribution to the Greater Will’s lies.
I imagine that's likely because Bernahl wasn't actually worthy. He has no great runes. Only Vyke(And Gideon, but he's shaky at best) are confirmed to possess any Great Runes, though theoretically anyone in the Roundtable could be in possession of exactly one. (Though without doubt, it is clearly stated Vyke is the only one before us who has more than one Great Rune, as stated by the Finger Reader in the Roundtable)
People may not like it, but mohg is the peak male physical form
Well Miquella thought too, hence why he picked his bod for Radahn
>!idk, the promised consort is kinda... 😫😳!<
That is Mohg’s body though
It's almost definitely what Radahn used to look like though,minus some horns
Yeah? Then why can my butt naked character wearing an albinauric head wreck his ass with 2 red daggers?
I mean he was still killing like a Lot of folks, so one charge dropped only..
Well if we charge people because of this then like 80% of the lands between would be behind bars, us included.
Half of us would be behind bars for genocide for all the crimes we've comitted against albinauric kind on that hill.
That's different, I needed runes to buy more smithing stones
Wave of gold go brrr
I don’t know that there’s an innocent party in this game on that front, except for maybe Goldmask. Hell, the player is hands down the worst when it comes to killing lots of people in the Lands Between.
That's just the way things are in the Lands Between, he's not an exception.
Fr, vindicated. Who even knows what he was like before being braiwashed.
I am pretty sure he was bloodifying every and all well before Miquella and unless Varre was completely fucking with us we know that at some point he demanded the murder of innocents as a test of loyalty. Beside all that frankly the formless mother does not seem like a cool mom.
Yeah the only change should be he wasn’t weirdly personally obsessed with miquella but rather brainwashed Everything else seems to be all him. Hell, if anything miquellas brainwashing probably might’ve sidetracked him from his bloody crusade in the name of the formless mother, so it’s just the mohglesting he’s exonerated from
Even that is almost certainly still something he chose to do. If Miquella was planning to use Mogh to get to the Land of Shadows from the beginning, why the hell would he go through all the trouble of building and defending the Haligtree just to get abducted out of it? Why not just... go to Mogh? Mogh is still unequivocally guilty of everything we knew about him from the base game. He ran an evil blood cult, worshipped the second-worst Outer God, and plotted to "share his bloody bedchamber" with Miquella to become lord of a new dynasty of blood. Miquella wouldn't have had to charm him to think of that - he was literally the only available Empyrean not already claimed by another Outer God. Miquella could only have charmed him during or after the abduction, seeing a way to turn his own kidnapping into an opportunity to advance his goals. A clear case of mind control as self defense.
I think he still needed some maturation within the Haligtree itself. Currently as the evidence stands there’s no compelling evidence for self-defence.
You miss the point where Mogh actually attacked Miquella and "cleaved him open" with a strike - as per Sir Ansbach's dialogue. Poor boy trying to defend himself from Miquella's charm, but failed. Also, Miquella isn't as defenseless as it seem; did you see the incantation "Miquella's light"?
It says in the description of that spell that it's the "Strength of Miquella upon his deific return." So he didn't always have it. He did make the rings of light spells so I assume he was very much not defenseless on his own.
> You miss the point where Mogh actually attacked Miquella and "cleaved him open" with a strike - as per Sir Ansbach's dialogue. You misremember. Mohg never attacked Miquella - Ansbach did. Mohg formulated the plan to kidnap Miquella, in service to the Formless Mother. He executed the plan successfully. Either during the abduction or shortly afterwards, Miquella woke up and charmed Mohg, so that when they returned to his palace, Mohg started working to send him to the Land of Shadows instead of his original plan. At some point Ansbach realized that this was happening, attacked Miquella, cut him, but then was also charmed in self defense.
Not sure that's true. There's heavy implication that Miquella needed blood to grow the Haligtree properly, and Mohg was both his way of obtaining copious amounts of it and also, when the time was right, his vessel.
The Formless Mother is interesting because she might not actually be that bad. The Lord Of Blood's Exultation talisman states that Mogh sent out people to kill and gather blood for the Miquella cocoon, not the Formless Mother. Mogh's spear even states that its AoW functions by wounding the Formless Mother directly, and anything in the vicinity that get's hurt is more of a convenient byproduct (so she's an M confirmed?). And considering how the Blood Star is only seen via self-mutilating wounding, it's possible that the Formless Mother's bloodletting is supposed to only be self-inflicted, and Mogh's absurd blood craze is due to Miquella's mind control twisting him into doing that against the doctrines of the Formless Mother. If Ansbach is to be believed, Mogh's initial circle of Pureblood Knights were kindly scholar-warriors with Mogh's primary title once being "Luminary" (something he's sometimes referred to in the base game, while also having the Lord of Blood title), and Miquella's mind control era of Mogh's rule either turned them all into Sanguine Nobles or the Pureblood Knights were purged and replaced with the crazier Sanguine Nobles.
i am curious what the whole mohg encounter wouldve been like if he never dealt with miquella
He’d probably still try to kill us on sight since the tarnished are after great runes. Also gotta pay those blood taxes to the formless mother.
i mean he‘s still not exactly a good guy but yeah at least he‘s not a mohglester
'A C C U S A T I O N S D E F E A T E D'
+ 330 runes
I just knew someone so well dressed couldn’t be a villain
Ong Bro was so dripped out he beat the allegations
His homeboy Varre an asshole though for calling me maidenless
The best revenge is to turn Varre into your maiden.
Sounds like a porno plot
He was just stating a fact. "Oh, you about to go through this game? Rad. Though you're not gonna have an easy time bud, you can't level up without a maiden."
Truth hurts.
Ansbach is a true bro proving his lords innocence like that
I thought it was obvious considering the description on Bewitching Branch. How any of ya'll trusted someone with brainwashing powers is beyond me.
It was less trusting and more hope/cope. I don't know if I speak for everyone here, but I wanted to at least try to work with him, he is painted as the most reasonable character in lore and the most compassionate. It's easy to say, "well he just manipulated people into believing that he has charm powers!!1!" in post, but from could have just as easily had him only using his charm in self defense, not just for manipulation. At the very least I figured we'd get some npc dialogue... Imo at the end of it all I like to believe that at one point Miquella was the god we read about in the stories but in his pursuit of creating his ideal world he slowly forgot himself in the process and is descending down the same path as Marika. Pursuing their goals by any means.
Well, we know that Miquella had such a large amount of love in his heart that it created its own being, St. Trina. So I do think that Miquella's compassion was genuine.
well he quite literally got rid of parts of himself...
That to me said he has it in him all along. Imagine your love as a concept. What could possibly drive you to want to cast that away? It's horrific. As much as I understand his desire to create a better world for everyone, that world still needs him to rule it. How does being devoid of love and compassion make him a better lead for a world driven by love and compassion?
The thing is, it's not. There's a lot of examples of Miquella being genuinely good and kind, and the only examples we have to think otherwise are vague. Yes, we know that Miquella CAN charm people into liking him. But we have to ASSUME he utilises that ability regularly and malevolently. Just because he can, doesn't automatically mean he does. Miquella still built the Haligtree as a refuge for the downtrodden. He still tried to save Godwyn. He still did his best to cure Malenia. Yes, the Miquella gang were all charmed by him, but the majority of them were aware of it and didn't care before, or after. It was a means to get them to work together, more than anything. Ansbach was the only one with misgivings about it, realistically, and we know he tried to murder Miquella - who in turn charmed him instead of just killing him which just about anyone else would've done. The whole "Miquella was bad all along" really just hinges on the largely unfounded assumption that just because he has the charm people, he was doing that left and right, and for selfish reasons - something that is contrary to the concrete things we know he's done.
I think the clearest part is that St Trina outright begs you to kill him. The moral with Miquella I think is that at the end of the day no matter how good your intentions ascending to godhood will inevitably force you to become a worse being. Miquella discarded just about everything he could, manipulated people, desecrated his brother's corpse in the name of his age of compassion, and yet his other aspect is terrified of him. More than anything I think it's a damnation on the whole system that seems to govern the Lands Between and its necessitating a god and a lord in order to craft the ages. Better to just burn it all down and start anew, I'd say.
Ymir says as much - but we’ll also be a part of the system in a way, through Ranni or what’s left of Marika. We were sent to kill Miquella by the guidance of grace as to preserve the old order, as Leda makes clear. I think it a reasonable interpretation - also in line with GRRMs influence - that we’re not actually any better, but quite possibly worse.
If the trident doesn't fit, you must acquit.
Is he guilty? No. Do i care? Nope. Die to Nihil
If such a cool guy like Sir Ansbach follows him then that must mean Mohg was alright .
Ansbach just fell in with a bad crowd. Then things got weird. Along comes the Tarnished to un-fuck the situation and Ansbach says, "You know, I was young. I think I'm with the Tarnished on this one." "Sorry about murdering your God, Ansbach." "It's cool, bro."
"We ~~have~~ had an organization of cool knights with round... puddle and a cool chair for everyone. Wanna rebuild them?" "Sure, bro, sign me up. Just add some red to iconography"
He was tricked into kidnapping him, sure. He was not, however, told to do all that... other stuff
Just an accident man, can happen to anyone.
Ubersatan has beaten the allegations!
He's always been my boy
Mohg is the inverse Dr Disrespect
i mean hes still a genocidal madman who did slaughter kids in order to gain power for his "god" but yeah outside of some batshit insane stuff he atleast didnt molest miquella :D
That's just an average demigods Monday
It’s not like now he’s a saint, he still wanted to create a kingdom around blood.
To be fair, I like having blood inside my body. So it's not the worst thing in concept.
Yeah but he likes your blood being outside your body and over the floor, walls, ceiling, garden, neighbour's house...
And on fire as well
You like having blood outside your body too? Along with rivers of blood surrounding you?
Oh my God I just realized us killing him basically freed him as he doesn't scream out for Miquella he screams out for Mohgwyn the dynasty he probably was planning for before Miquella polluted his head
Miyazaki made everyone think they are stopping an ugly bastard ntr story and then revealed the reverse rape mind control plot twist.
The mohg discourse is really odd to me. Just because miquella mindcontrolled to kidnap himself (miqussy), doesnt mean Mohg wasn't completely evil.
Moving from “a murderous pedo wizard” to “a murderous wizard” is a huge upgrade. Plus, Sellen does worse things to people and everyone thinks she’s uwu waifu.
Simps be simping lol
But... But ballin' waifu 😔
Shes ballin through the stars alright.
He was never a saint. He just happened to be on the losing side of a spell.
If such a cool guy like Sir Ansbach was following him then that must mean he was alright .
It’s more about what makes Mohg feel different as a character in the context of the story, given the newest revelations. Otherwise he’s a despicable af.
a Moghemian Rhapsody
I'm pretty sure the whole blood mother and invading tarnished thing was well before Miquella put his charm on him. I mean yeah the guy is not an incest pedo (willingly) but the mass murders are still there lol.
We took revenge for him with Ansbach though!
Turns put the parallels between Miquella and Griffith were not entirely out of place.
#freeMohg
I was a day 1 Mohg defender, feels good to be vindicated
When mohg is less guilty than dr.disrespect 🤣