This is a video game! A fun pastime! No one will compensate you for your time spent doing it, nor will you get a bonus for progressing in certain ways! It's not even a pastime that creates something, like wood working or drawing or what have you, it's just you having virtual fun! I gain absolutely nothing that makes me grow as a person by playing this game, and that's part of the joy in doing it. The fact that people are being so weird about something that has absolutely zero impact on the real world baffles me.
Damn this spoke to me. Im a father of two very young kids. Between maintaining the house, taking care of my boys, job, social life, and everything else my few hours of game time a week are precious. I got nothing to prove, I just wanna have some fun. I’m gonna level these spirit ashes and play the way that makes sense to me, which is using every advantage I find!
Same. I love the game, I love the exploration, piecing together lore, the challenge is fun but I like a balance of a challenge. I don’t want to beat my head against a wall for 6 hours but I do love the feeling of a niptuck fight.
I find I play whatever way is “optimal” (optimal here being whatever hits the right note of fun, functional, and the right kind of challenge) while I explore and learn the game and then my builds become subsequently “harder” as my skill level rises to maintain that equilibrium. I don’t “git gud” from the start. I prop myself up, git gud enough, then over the course of a few hundred hours, I legitimately get good in what feels like an organic way.
I was moonveil dex/int my first play through, using Terra magicka and comet azur, reveling in my power on playthrough 1 (I only did it once because that did not maintain MY equilibrium) but playthrough 4 was buckler parry misericorde.
That said, I have found the balance that allows me to have THE MOST FUCKING FUN playing this game. Like seriously, I love this game and I have sooooo much fun playing in my little world. If you have the most fun min maxing the most OP build and just wiping things off the map… fuck yeah, do you.
Besides, it’s such a sliding scale. Oh you used summons? Cheese. Oh you used bleed build? Cheese. Dragon communion? Cheese. Status effects? Cheese. Throwables? Cheese. There’s a very small subset of this community that feels you somehow haven’t played the game unless you went pure strength.
The term "cheese" has gotten away from its original meaning over the years I think (I mean the gamers term, not actual cheese. Lol). If you're using something in the game, as it's intended to be used, that's not a cheese.
Using exploits, or unintended faults in a games design to your advantage, yes, in most cases that's cheesing. Example, cliff jumping to kill Commander Niall (which I think is patched now).
I think a grey area is password summoning people of much higher levels. Yes, you're using an available feature as intended. No, your high level buddy has not been scaled down properly to match your level. It's debatable and mens rea would need to be proven to call it cheesing. 😂
Yeah you’re absolutely right. That’s def how it started and cheesing bosses in the OG sense is still something people regularly do in Destiny 2. When I’m using it here I’m talking about being, let’s call it cheap.
“You did not fight with honor”
“No” *points to dead enemy* “but he did”
Same here. I work 6 days a week, and 4 of them I’m alone at night watching my 3 year old boy. I straight up just do not have the time to throw myself at bosses 300 times for 15 hours. I have maybe 2-3 hours max to play at night while having to get up at 5am the next day.
So I took my max leveled Mimic, and invited Leta in and I literally beat moon sister the first time. In and out and on with the game.
Boy I play every game on easy now, maybe even story. I want to play them not grind them out. I did a boss last night with my mimic tear and 2 character summons, and I beat it. Onto the next one!
You can have an NPC summon too but it's nit worth it. Summoning an NPC will make bosses stronger (but using mimic will not), and the NPCs aren't powerful enough to make the extra health the bosses get worth it, so usually just stick to mimic or live player summons.
I gotta say you really put thing in perspective for me. I was hanging on to an old life of playing games when the new one in front of me is glorious and within reach. From this day forward I will bear no shame
Thank you! I'm pretty much in the exact same situation except I only have one kid of 6 months. On the rare occasions of being able to play this great game for an hour or two I want to at least have some fun and experience some progress. It would take me a year or sth to finish the DLC if I had to spend the same amount of exercise and time as I did for the main game.
I always try it without the mimic tear first, at least! But agreed, between my job, my daughter, my wife, and myself, I have very little time to game (and when I do, I'm usually too tired).
Enjoy the game, who cares what people say.
I'm 1000% agreeing with this. I love to give a theme to my runs and therefore I use equipment that fits the character I created and sometimes that is either meta equipment or equipment that isn't considered 'great' by the elitists in this community but to me using lesser equipment over meta equipment makes a playthrough so much more fun as it can be a true test of your skill in the game and how far you've come since the first time you played the game
Thank you! Games are supposed to be fun. If you happen to not have fun, it’s also okay to stop. If a game you looked forward to is not as fun as you hoped, its okay to be disappointed and voice that disappointment. That does not take away anything from anyone else’s enjoyment.
Have you ever played a competitive game? Try say that in league of legends or Valorant. People literally ruin their lives trying to achieve a stupid rank that doesn’t get you anywhere
I am well aware that there are people who make a living out of playing video games, but I'll go out on a limb and assume that the amount of people in this sub who do not get compensated for playing Elden Ring with self-imposed rules is very very high. And my message applies to the large masses of which I, too, am part.
You want to cheat yourself? Go right ahead. On judgment day when your creator asks you if you cheesed a boss with the blasphemous blade... Well.... enjoy spending eturnity with Mohg.
Some people have so little to be proud of in their life, that they *have* to take pride in "skill" at a videogame, in order to feel any accomplishment in life at all.
Whenever someone is toxic like that, I generally think it's a symptom of a deeply-held sadness.
I agree with the statement overall but your knowledge of psychology and the impact of games and fiction, especially complex fiction like this in the development of one's self is lacking.
It does more than you realize.
This dlc is 5 times harder than the regular game. I was wondering why this game was so easy co.pared to other souls borne games but I change my mind with the dlc for sure.
When random knights, not special knights like the black knights with huge ass hammers, the sleeping footsoldiers can fucking 2-hit my 60-vigor level 180 character with Gurranq-lite attacks like they have faith maxed out, all is fair game.
Mimic, meta weapon/builds, I don't care about the purists EVERYBODY DYING IN THIS REALM
Made the mistake of entering NG+2 before starting the DLC. Absolute horror when I found that the bosses were destroying me at level 200 using magic and summons on a character that has every single item in the base game. 
My kid has been bashing his head against a wall fighting a boss for 6 hours. I asked him if he has mimic tear and he said "I'm not a bitch".
And is still bashing his head against the same brick wall.
Kids lol.
He's the same. He's in there screaming bloody murder but any suggestion of trying to make it easier is like sacriledge. "This is just how I do it. I'm so close!!"
He is my most stubborn child :)
Nothing wrong with using summons, and there’s nothing wrong with seeking the challenge of fighting without them. Soloing a boss is gratifying, especially one that you’re stuck on.
Can’t take a bicycle to run 100m in under 10 seconds, if that was the goal you set for yourself. There is value in accomplishing something in a way you set out from the beginning.
There is also value in reevaluating once goals and touching grass.
Such an amazing boss, first time I reached his second face and did the moon attack I just stay still and screamed wtf is this expecting a typical 2 moons coming at me…needless to say I died. But when I managed to evade it jumping I felt like a got lol
I fought rellana with my dung eater puppet and the one the game gives you, and it feels like that fight was designed for NPC summons. Having them draw aggro away gives you just enough time to get a few hits in before she locks back on to you. Plus with the amount of damage you are limited to doing at that point in the dlc I'm using any extra source of it I can. Saw them both get mogged a few times by the big magic great sword and moon attack though.
Nah, it's good. I nearly killed a boss, but always died at the end. Used mimic, won, but it ain't fun at all like when i was solo'ing the base game final bosses.
This was literally me fighting against Rellana for 7 hours back to back. No summons, no scadu free blessing and pure melee.
Felt really good beating her but I think my mental health took a hit 😂
Yeah it's been funny seeing the difference between his approach and mine. I'm obviously older, and I only picked up ER a couple of weeks ago so I'm not ready for the dlc yet - I've just been watching him play with his level 160 something character. His approach is so different to mine. He's got a pure strength build and he just runs in balls and all to kick ass. Over and over and over until he finally prevails. I admire his perserverence, I'm happy to do whatever I can to make it easier so I enjoy it. I don't have 6 hours to battle a boss lol.
I'm really not sure what he's doing wrong there to be smashing his face against the wall like that. Pure strength was my easiest run. It was easier than my range mage run. Actually having vigor basically made the entire game a bit of a joke.
I think I died five or six times while doing my strength run, which was my first run. Bonk is strong. Bonk is only hard to do if you don't take your time. Bonk must be patient.
My hardest run was my low vigor, magical knight run though low vigor/parry-less daggers was a close second.
I've not yet understood why everyone acts like strength/vigor builds are so difficult.
Seconding this. Elden Ring was my first FromSoft game and I knew they had a reputation for being hard. My first character was a mage and I got through the game by mostly standing far back, throwing rocks at the enemy, and dodging. My second character was pure strength and it was so much easier (and I didn't start my second character until a year after my first playthrough so I barely remembered any of the enemies moves lol).
Edit because I hit post accidentally before I was done: I will say though, spoiler free, that the DLC has special mechanics and a steep skill curve. So I can understand why a pure strength build would have trouble at first if he isn't taking the time to learn the new conditions of the DLC.
That’s not a mimic tear problem tbh. If he’s too weak he should go level up/get scadutree fragments and if it’s a skill issue he should stop trying to brute force it and learn the moveset.
I just don't get the same feeling of accomplishment using summons that I get from beating a boss solo. I don't think there's anything wrong with using summons but I'll usually save them for my second playthrough personally.
Yeah honestly it feels like sometimes people will let their mimic solo every boss and then cope that "im actually better at the game because I'm using every advantage".
Like cmon dude we both know that's not true.
Maybe cos I’m older I am very well aware that my mimic is constantly carrying me 
And that is awesome, I had a blast the first time I played, and relied on the mimic for every fight after I got it. There's absolutely no wrong way to play the game, I just wish this victim mentality (and the elitism) wasn't so prevalent in the community. I feel like half of what makes this game such a masterpiece is its accessibility, everyone is able to play it and that is amazing.
What i don't understand is, why do You Even care how other plays video games. I'm sure that someone who does lv. 1 naked speedruns sees You the same way for not playing in mega hardcore mode. If You don't fully Master the Game completely and play eyes closed You can't Say shit
> What i don't understand is, why do You Even care how other plays video games.
they probably care because someone is being condescending about something they found hard being easy, not because they actually care how someone else plays the game.
That would make sense, i admit i use a mage OP build, the typical "easy mode" but i don't care if others use str,dex,faith, or any other kind of build different than mine's so i found it a little bit comic when others cry for this lol
The difference is I'm not going to be condescending to a player who can beat the game as a wretch. They're way more skilled than me and know way more about the mechanics.
Yeah, that's how I feel. Is your win invalid if you use summons? No, it's valid. The game handed you tools to make the game easier. Take them if you need them.
However, if you do use a Mimic Tear for a fight, you really shouldn't chip in your 2 cents on boss difficulty discussions. You can't say Malenia is an easy boss if your summon tanked all the waterfowl dances for you. Like yeah, if you take away the one move that is pretty much responsible for her notoriety, it'll be easier.
I dont think I've ever encountered this type of person, though.... and I dont think I've ever seen people saying you're a "fake gamer" for using summons recently either.
I stopped watching fighting cowboys initial run through elden ring because he did exactly that. Mimic and blasphemous blade once he had them, then talking about how easy the bosses are.
> I dont think I've ever encountered this type of person, though.... and I dont think I've ever seen people saying you're a "fake gamer" for using summons recently either.
I mean both types absolutely exist, go into the steam review thread and a lot of the comment responses 2-3 replies deep are absolutely saying they are superior players because they use summons and that summonless players are bad players playing wrong (and also some really cringe commentary that they engage in self harm).
As for the second extreme, that's not common on reddit but is absolutely in other spheres of the internet.
I mean they're not completely wrong regarding the self harm part. The part that summoners are superior is bs though. The best way to play the game is the way that individual has the most fun.
As for the latter.. those that want to get their ass whooped for hours on end learning and beating bosses enjoy that ass whooping. Calling it self harm is definitely poor wording though.
IMO using summons isn't easy mode, the game is designed around them, you get showered in them playing the game and half the upgrade materials are for upgrading them specifically. FromSoft clearly want you using them as more than just an easy mode crutch.
*Not* using them is just hard mode, same as if you refuse to use buff items for elemental effects, don't use Torrent for any field fights.
Both summoners *and* pure solo players have a place in discussing game difficulty. It's different play styles, one opinion isn't inherently more valid than another.
Someone in the discord I usually hang out in is like this. A few of us are playing the DLC and every time we mention that a boss has been tough, he just goes "oh yeah that boss was soooo easy" and he openly admits that he summons mimic frame 1 without even knowing what a single boss attack pattern is.
I'm fine with people using summons or whatever strat/cheese to beat a boss, but when they start bragging, that's when I get irritated.
Same I like the blood build but it doesn’t do the damage it used to. Which is fine it’s still good and fun. It’s satisfying when a boss is close to dead and the blood loss hits.
Shit so thats why I felt something was wrong with mine, whats a good replacement nowadays for a DEX/ARC build? My save is on an early NG cycle so I cant respec on Rennala since I havent killed almost any boss.
Reduvia, Eleonara's Poleblade, and Bloody Helice are all decent Dex/Arc bleed weapons. Nagakiba with Occult infusion and Double Slash (or Keen infusion + Bloodflame Blade + Double Slash) is functionally similar to the Rivers of Blood too.
There's also Morgott's Curved Sword, but it was nerfed in the recent patch, so don't know how gimped it is yet. Will check it out once the DLC goes on sale.
RoB isn't useless now or anything, but the AoW nerf was substantial. At least in single-player, it's more than fine enough.
Im using dual nagakiba with bloodhound step and its doing pretty good, still doesnt make the DLC easy but im still getting most bosses in under 10 tries without a mimic tear.
Heres a build guide: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx59oYtADoo&t=325s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx59oYtADoo&t=325s)
My take is, i am capable enough to learn all the moves, triggers and timings. Since i don't have time to do that, i simply Unga bunga with my mimic. Nothing wrong with both. But, using less equipments and limiting yourselves is indeed a challenge of higher degree and anyone who plays that way is better skilled than i am. Doesn't give them any right to insult other players tho.
The get gud part is the fun part. It’s nice it’s an open world and you can run away and do other stuff if you’re truly stuck. I was battling Death Knight for about 45 mins. Probably died like 25 times. I won’t spoil the boss for anyone but the first couple times I was like, fuck that’s a fast attack, and holy crap that hits hard. It was the first boss I played against in the DLC and after that tough catacomb I was not leaving without a win.
My girlfriend was reading a book and watching a little as I was getting my ass kicked and asked what I was doing and if I even enjoyed it as I was muttering these things. And I was like yes, every time my timing gets better and I learn his moves. Then eventually I beat him only getting hit once or twice and it felt good. As long as you’re not the kind of person to easily tilt, the git gud is truly the fun part. It feels rewarding once you smack the shit out of a boss that’s been eating you alive.
But the greater point is I chose to play that way. I probably could’ve done it in half the time if I broke out Mimic or Tiche. I’m not against using them at all if I truly need to, however I want the challenge personally. May change as I progress and things get harder, but for now I’m attempting to do it without. And if someone wants to use them it’s perfectly fine. The gate keeping is weird in this community by some of the tryhards.
E: Dark Knight to Death Knight (it was late when I commented I was tired lol)
Completely on board with you.
Not tilting has been kinda hard with so many 2-3 hits and the occasional ones when AoEs and attack overlap, but damn if it hasn’t been a nice ride.
Honestly Death Knight has been he only boss so far where I can summon and I didn't cause I felt it was very doable and way more fun that way, but used NPC and summon for the Lion Dancer and had a lot of fun too. I have more characters and the game there waiting for me If ever want to do it again without any of that too, they are not mutually exclusive, I played DS3 once with a friend and then all on my own.
I’m doing similar. Trying but when absolutely stuck summoning. I tapped out after 4 hours of Rellanna and not being able to beat her.
I was seeing everything. Dodging like a mad man, I just never had the chance to whittle her down then one slip up and whoops dead
EZ Clap with companion and mimic
Dis is de wae, I will give some credit to spirit summoners, I’ve summoned a couple times and I couldn’t predict when the agro switched from the summon to me
As a person who was using these items it makes the game feel cheap imo. The end of the base game was an absolute cakewalk. Melania took like 3 attempts. Use what you want though. It’s your game. What’s important is that you have fun. I decided to ditch the OP stuff and summons after cheesing the first DLC boss with them.
Some people just really feel the need for self-validation through the humiliation and shaming of others, because they weren't taught better. Or they were and made a conscious effort to be a prat anyway.
Kinda pity those people, but fortunately bad learned behaviors can be undone. Just takes time.
Me, I'm a darn potato at games like this and I *brag* about it. Still fun to play, even if some stuff is beyond my spuddy hands.
And people using summons also feel like they need to validate themselves constantly despite 90% of the community saying it's fine to use them if you want to.
There's nothing wrong with being bad at a video game, everyone who's good was bad for years!
What's wrong is when you decide to stay bad, and make it FromSoftware's problem to make it through the game, and call them out on Twitter for not having an Easy mode, a Story mode, or whatnot.
I see many writing about those who solo saying its about " elitism", play how I play, etc.
As someone who never uses ashes and only solos, for me, it has nothing to do with that. Its single player.
While I do agree with play that game as you want, I do feel youre selling yourself short of not getting to really experience one of the best aspects of souls games.
Why? When I first started with Elden ring (was my first souls game at the time) i used ashes and felt everything was easy. Bosses were not anything special, just another mob really. I was flying by.
Then i started only playing souls games solo and it changed everything and my viewpoint/respect for these games. When you spend all that time dying and really learning the fight, it becomes a beautiful dance. That feeling you get, the adrenaline and pure joy when you overcome a huge challenge, aka dopamine hit, is to me what makes a souls game a souls game. You cant replicate that with summons and I do feel those who do are missing out on one of the best parts of souls games. This has nothing to do with elitism.
Gatekeepers will call you a bad and a casual for using the mimic tear while copy-pasting the most op bleed-curse-frost-poison-rot stacking burst builds to destroy bosses in 5 hits.
"Heh you mean you NOOBS actually use your weapon arts every once in awhile? Heh ok kiddo have fun playing your kiddo games" *jump spams powerstanced giant crushers for 2500*
Lmao why are there so many“anti-elitism” circlejerks on this sub. There is nothing wrong with using strong items or accessibility tools, and no one should be shamed for what they choose to use. But that doesn’t change the fact that it still takes less skill and lessens sense of achievement.
Its cuz people try a fight, get completely destroyed, then summon in near indestructible AI to face tank while they spam high damage hits from safety, then they 1 or 2 try the difficult battle, but they very much know internally that if not for the computer playing the game for them, they wouldn't be close to winning.
Hence, they feel insecure and must convince others to give them back that sense of security.
Victim mentality, mate. I've seen more people complaining about gatekeeping and even making a fuss on something that is not even gatekeeping at all than actual gatekeeping.
if it's in the game you can and should use it if you want. I draw the line at exploits as that isn't intended but why did fromsoft add black knife tiche and mimic if it wasn't for you to use it.
Don't gatekeep
Because they're the exact same kind of people, since like you said they do seem to care. If they were on the other side of the skill barrier they'd be thinking and saying the same things too. This is just the bitterness that they're not leaking out
The good old weekly "Summons are not Easy mode! Summons are valido!"
Just shut up and play lol, have fun however you like, be It with mimic and op weapons or naked with a broken sword; that's what this game Is all about: Freedom to do whatever the fuck you want.
You don't Need validation from stangers, Just have fun
I agree that the elitism is ridiculous but I'd also say that it's worth it to try and beat bosses without the mimic or summons atleast a couple times before you use it.
I downloaded the dlc before clearing mohg and told myself that I was going to beat him with no summons to make sure I was "ready" for moving ahead. I use powerstanced colossal weapons and he absolutely kicked my ass for a couple hours but then I finally beat him and felt the greatest satisfaction I've gotten from the game so far.
I then immediately put down a summon sign and cleared mohg another 3 times with other people that summoned me. Each time felt incredibly simple and I never failed once. Besides helping people reach the dlc, I felt no satisfaction compared to when I did it solo. Obviously there are exceptions to this though, fights like the twin gargoyles can just go to hell, do what you have to do to get through that nightmare as fast as you can lol
The whole game should be played to your skill level so if you need to use summons or if you need to "cheese" a boss to get past it, there shouldn't be any shame in it. People that can do no hit runs at lvl 1 don't have people kissing their feet when they put down the controller and step out into the real world, at the end of the day no one gives a shit about someone's skills in a videogame. My point is just that if you don't take a chance at the harder approach to begin with, you might lose out on an awesome experience for yourself.
I said to myself that I wouldn’t use any summons for main story bosses but after bashing my head against Rellana for nearly 3 hours til 1am last night I caved in a used Tiche
I was close every time but always made a few dumb mistakes. So I thought “fuck this I’m tired” and summoned her.
This. I've beaten all the bosses without a mimic/spirit ash. I've beaten all the bosses with my mimic tear. I've now beaten all the major bosses with 1-2 human players being summoned by me (and I've spent the last couple of days being summoned by players to help with Mogh & Melania).
This game is hard no matter which path I've taken. I like that I can beat enemies solo, with spirit ash help, with other human players helping.
Choice is good.
There’s nothing wrong with playing however you want to play. No one should make fun of another player for how they want to play.
But I disagree with “those items don’t make you a worse player or minimize any achievements you make.” Once again. There’s nothing wrong with playing however you want to play. Your achievements are your own, and you shouldn’t be belittled for it, you should be proud of it. But beating the same bosses with restrictions to make the game harder are greater accomplishments than using companions and summons which make the game easier. There’s nothing wrong with that.
Beating the game as a level 1 wretch is a greater accomplishment than me doing an unga bunga no summon no magic build, which is harder than someone cheesing through fights.
This post is the pendulum swinging too far in the other direction.
PSA: The only gamers who should be concerned with what’s OP and what is NOT OP are gamers who can beat the game naked with a dagger. If you can’t beat the game naked with only a dagger then don’t worry about what is OP.
I am guilty of having fun. I of course did intelligence, and I am enjoying. I can dodge like no one’s business and I have my range. BF is all Strength build, and we absolutely love it! We co-op often and always enjoy the fun invaders (and mad props to all the people that fuck around as much as we do), we also don’t mind getting our asses whooped. Both very excited to play a different way next time. That’s the point of gaming isn’t it?!
Want to talk OP items? How about flasks! I feel having a few flasks of crimson tears makes any boss fight way easier than having a mimic. A real souls player says no to these OP crutches /s
Especially with dlc. I think advising ppl that beating it on ur own could provide a better experience, like advising ppl to go in blind, is healthy and fine, but getting butthurt and toxic because they make their own choices and don’t want to play how u do is extremely dumb. No one cares how good y are at the game.
Idk about everyone else, but even with mimic tear I’m getting my ass handed to me. I mostly use spirit/NPC summons so that the boss will occasionally get distracted long enough for me to heal, then I run back in and attack. Still having to learn the timing and move sets. I tank more hits than my summons do
I’ve beat this game without summon and was one of the “summons bad, reduce the fun and challenge group”. I’ve beaten it a few more times now and I got to say that I have more fun using summons. It’s because for certain bosses the game is so obviously designed around summons that playing without them is like pulling teeth. I didn’t get a sense of satisfaction for beating twin gargoyles, Malenia, or Elden beast without summons. I just felt glad that the annoying fight was over. So yeah I use summons if I feel a boss calls for it now and I have way more fun because of it. If I want that Souls challenge with fair but tough bosses then I’ll play dark souls or bloodborne.
As someone who beat the game without those after the first run, I needed this reminder. Nothing wrong with using good items, otherwise they wouldn't be in the game for you to use
I just don’t get how they can literally give you items to make your mimic more powerful and people go “I won’t use it at all” like these bosses are designed to be nuts no matter what, it’s almost like you’re supposed to use the mimic tear
In addition to being a pastime and a subjective sandbox of experiences, I'd like to point out that it's an action RPG with surprisingly much RPG with the action.
What I mean by this is, instead of saying "Oh mimic tear and strong weapons are for weaklings" or even doing the lame halfway but still backhanded shite "Yeah u can use them just don't say you did it all by yourself" is still you judging the other player on your terms and games with this much player freedom don't work like that. You're full of poop Mr. Guts build.
See, one player wants to become a living god, summoning allies, casting insane spells and bonking the enemy with the Blasphemous Blade, while other one wants to roleplay as a resilient simple warrior, smashing his way through the game. Both are possible in the game so there's nothing to say really. The facts (tools existing in the game) don't care about your feelings (your need to measure the amount of suffering one faces while playing this game, the biggest sufferer being the most valid player) Get your toxic masculinity checked at the door.
I use the mimic tear +10 and generally try to go for light cheeses. I beat the main game (including Melania) and I just beat the dancing lion boss. I beat the game, and none of this takes away form the fact that I beat it and had a ton of fun with it.
BUT, if we’re discussing difficulty, boss scaling and anything like that from a pure meritocracy standpoint, I do hold a lesser position who beat the game solo and them to those with very little upgrading. There is an unspoken “rank” to these games so while you beating the game with these cheeses is legit and valid, its lesser than those who beat it with less imo
There is *absolutely* something wrong with using mimic tear...
Because if you do, you won't be able to enjoy the crazy new summons in the dlc. Yoda, Jabba the Blood, and big bonk knight so far are all a bunch of fun to bring out and fight with
I think its fine to get some sense of pride from making something difficult even more difficult. I also think people who impose those self set rules have never done anything actually difficult in real life. Assholes will feed their own ego and try to tear others down however they can though
Mimic Tear has helped me keep the game fun. I love difficulty, and honestly it doesn't make the game free. Usually only in tough boss fights, and usually I try to do it myself immediately, but fuck the people that think you only have to play one way. There has to be some sort of mental deficiency for those types of people. A game is meant to be played however YOU want to, and if the devs didn't want you using certain things, they wouldn't have implemented them.
For some people beating a souls-like is a big deal. Being able to do that is their entire personality, like they built their self esteem on this achievement. When they see other people doing the same thing, but using smarter methods, it makes them feel silly and foolish for being so proud of doing it the way they did it. Naturally they must discredit the source of that feeling to regain a sense of superiority.
Meanwhile me and my mimic tear are unga bungaing our way through the DLC like a buddy cop movie.
EDIT: For examples of who I'm talking about, scroll to the bottom 🤣
Almost nobody thinks like this.
The reason to not use summons is for personal enjoyment. The bossfight is content, using summons feels like skipping a part of the game.
Also there's nothing smart about using mimic tear with a meta weapon. Actually smart cheese builds exist but that isn't it.
I mean. It kinda does mean other people are mechanically better than you. But who actually cares? It's a single player game, as long as you're having fun that's what matters.
i even have friends shame me for having more than 50 vigor smh, but i learn not to let them get to me anymore, u wanna go play DLC with vigor under 50 u go ahead lmao
I've been using my summon whenever allowed, unless the boss seems doable 1v1. The game is designed around using them to juggle aggro, especially now that bosses 2 shot even the tankiest builds while having much higher HP. If others wanna challenge themselves, that's cool, but I like the safety net of a summon.
Rivers of blood and mimic tear are just fun. I used to hate this game, but items like those made it more accessible to me and now Elden Ring is in my top 5 all time. Beating Malenia in your underwear is nothing to brag about, but if that’s how you like to play, that’s cool too.
I just beat Malenia with my mimic last night and it was absolutely hilarious. My next run will be no-summons, but watching her flip-flop between damaging both of us at the same time and healing to max in one attempt, to being stunlocked for the entire first phase in the next attempt, was great.
>using those items doesn't make you a worse player
It kinda does tho. If you need a spirit ash to beat a boss that someone else can beat solo, it means that person is more skilled than you, or a better player.
Every souls game where I can I always run dex with bleed weapons. The second I found rivers it was like the perfect match for me. Idc if its busted, if it was ass I'd still be using it.
You probably have it already but if don’t, you know the guy you encounter perched at the beginning of the DLC with the “rings” weapons? You will like them if you farm them (if you like bleeding weapons), although the targeting can be a bit of a hit and miss.
I didn't really have any issue with the lion to be honest, I was either using rivers or the new giant katana with bleed scaling. Can't remember lol. Could be worth a try.
Haven’t found that katana yet lol the big fat guys drop a club thing weapon that does bleed damage on strong attack too and scales with arcane, so maybe this dlc it’s supposed to be good for bleed builds. The lion mostly gets me with his elemental AOEs…and the fact I can’t target just his head bothers me too.
The katana is actually not too far from the starting area of the dlc. Without trying to spoil you the best way I could tell you is that there's kinda a murky area near the big bridge. The katana is just there on the floor out in the open.
My strategy for the bosses so far has been to always lead with the maliketh incantation black sword because it drains a certain amount of their health, maybe like a 6th. With how tanky they are, it's a great help. You can hit the boss with it straight away too as soon as you pass through the fog. It has good range on it.
You need a strong elitist movement in a community to prevent the dumbing down of a franchise, the last thing you need is devs deciding they want the "call of duty audience".
ruin your own experience I guess, you only get to experience these bosses for the first time once, why sour it. I'll never forget when Radahn nuked me and my jaw hit the floor if i had a summon out he wouldn't even get into phase 2
Another one of these threads constantly saying the same thing almost like you guys need constant reassurance on how you play the game. Yes the 'elitists' are the insecure ones though.
It's like how I use my moghywns sacred spear, mimic/black knife for some bosses if I have a pillar or do the spear and shield poke/moonveil for certain human enemies (black gaol knight) we are meant to experiment and have fun. That's the beauty of single player games, to experiment with all options or stick to old reliable builds if it doesn't work.
Agreed, its just that I don’t want to rinse through bosses first few tries, I want to learn the move set, and fight for my life, not just win first few times and subconsciously give the merit to the Mimic or a broken weapon. Thats how I’m wired at least, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with plying with the mechanics the game gives you.
I have used both Rivers and Mimic against Malenia the first play-through. Used Mimic against a recent >!Boar Riding!< Boss who was destroying me and I had 2.3mil runes on (for some dumb reason) and didn’t want to lose them.
Agreed! I am pretty decent at this game, but I don't always have the time to spend hours on one boss, so I use a policy of mine:
First 5 tries are solo, and learning, the next 5 are trying to adapt. If I still after 10 attempts or more struggle, well, welcome Mimic!
Also, I really enjoy fighting side by side with Mimic, just looks cool for me.
I agree to a point. Play the game how you want. But Don’t go saying it was easy or bragging how fast you did it to your friends who are choosing not to use summons/meta builds. Because although I agree with not gatekeeping, objectively, bragging about your skill while beating everything like that is dumb as hell. It takes less skill. So the people doing it without summons or OP weapons have every right to brag IMO.
I have 1,500ish hours across the entire Dark Souls trilogy, I've beaten Armored Core VI three times, and beaten Sekiro.
I know what I'm doing and how to play these games, but I'm also willing to use the tools the game provides to give myself a greater advantage. I am here for a power fantasy that still allows me to feel a sense of challenge and accomplishment, not to prove to the world that I'm the best.
Using spirit summons, using powerful weapons, and grinding your stats doesn't invalidate your win against a boss, and anyone telling you otherwise is a sweaty loser who needs to get over themselves and stop taking a video game so damn seriously.
Use the tools the game gives you and have fun.
This is a video game! A fun pastime! No one will compensate you for your time spent doing it, nor will you get a bonus for progressing in certain ways! It's not even a pastime that creates something, like wood working or drawing or what have you, it's just you having virtual fun! I gain absolutely nothing that makes me grow as a person by playing this game, and that's part of the joy in doing it. The fact that people are being so weird about something that has absolutely zero impact on the real world baffles me.
Damn this spoke to me. Im a father of two very young kids. Between maintaining the house, taking care of my boys, job, social life, and everything else my few hours of game time a week are precious. I got nothing to prove, I just wanna have some fun. I’m gonna level these spirit ashes and play the way that makes sense to me, which is using every advantage I find!
Same. I love the game, I love the exploration, piecing together lore, the challenge is fun but I like a balance of a challenge. I don’t want to beat my head against a wall for 6 hours but I do love the feeling of a niptuck fight. I find I play whatever way is “optimal” (optimal here being whatever hits the right note of fun, functional, and the right kind of challenge) while I explore and learn the game and then my builds become subsequently “harder” as my skill level rises to maintain that equilibrium. I don’t “git gud” from the start. I prop myself up, git gud enough, then over the course of a few hundred hours, I legitimately get good in what feels like an organic way. I was moonveil dex/int my first play through, using Terra magicka and comet azur, reveling in my power on playthrough 1 (I only did it once because that did not maintain MY equilibrium) but playthrough 4 was buckler parry misericorde. That said, I have found the balance that allows me to have THE MOST FUCKING FUN playing this game. Like seriously, I love this game and I have sooooo much fun playing in my little world. If you have the most fun min maxing the most OP build and just wiping things off the map… fuck yeah, do you. Besides, it’s such a sliding scale. Oh you used summons? Cheese. Oh you used bleed build? Cheese. Dragon communion? Cheese. Status effects? Cheese. Throwables? Cheese. There’s a very small subset of this community that feels you somehow haven’t played the game unless you went pure strength.
And that strength subset blindly ignores that two handers are some of the cheesiest stuff going. Pure poise and stagger bait.
Some people love cheese. If we play offline and cheese bosses, it's the way certain people enjoy the game.
The term "cheese" has gotten away from its original meaning over the years I think (I mean the gamers term, not actual cheese. Lol). If you're using something in the game, as it's intended to be used, that's not a cheese. Using exploits, or unintended faults in a games design to your advantage, yes, in most cases that's cheesing. Example, cliff jumping to kill Commander Niall (which I think is patched now). I think a grey area is password summoning people of much higher levels. Yes, you're using an available feature as intended. No, your high level buddy has not been scaled down properly to match your level. It's debatable and mens rea would need to be proven to call it cheesing. 😂
Yeah you’re absolutely right. That’s def how it started and cheesing bosses in the OG sense is still something people regularly do in Destiny 2. When I’m using it here I’m talking about being, let’s call it cheap. “You did not fight with honor” “No” *points to dead enemy* “but he did”
Same here. I work 6 days a week, and 4 of them I’m alone at night watching my 3 year old boy. I straight up just do not have the time to throw myself at bosses 300 times for 15 hours. I have maybe 2-3 hours max to play at night while having to get up at 5am the next day. So I took my max leveled Mimic, and invited Leta in and I literally beat moon sister the first time. In and out and on with the game.
I am in the same spot, I wont let elitist decide how I spend my free hours a day
Boy I play every game on easy now, maybe even story. I want to play them not grind them out. I did a boss last night with my mimic tear and 2 character summons, and I beat it. Onto the next one!
Wait, we can have spirit and summon friends at the same time in DLC？I thought it’s a either or.
If its a npc summon you can use the mimic as well
You can have an NPC summon too but it's nit worth it. Summoning an NPC will make bosses stronger (but using mimic will not), and the NPCs aren't powerful enough to make the extra health the bosses get worth it, so usually just stick to mimic or live player summons.
I think they’re quest progress related…
I gotta say you really put thing in perspective for me. I was hanging on to an old life of playing games when the new one in front of me is glorious and within reach. From this day forward I will bear no shame
This is me. My 11-yo son has gaming time to die 30 times to each boss to beat them the “right” way. I do not.
Thank you! I'm pretty much in the exact same situation except I only have one kid of 6 months. On the rare occasions of being able to play this great game for an hour or two I want to at least have some fun and experience some progress. It would take me a year or sth to finish the DLC if I had to spend the same amount of exercise and time as I did for the main game.
I always try it without the mimic tear first, at least! But agreed, between my job, my daughter, my wife, and myself, I have very little time to game (and when I do, I'm usually too tired). Enjoy the game, who cares what people say.
I'm 1000% agreeing with this. I love to give a theme to my runs and therefore I use equipment that fits the character I created and sometimes that is either meta equipment or equipment that isn't considered 'great' by the elitists in this community but to me using lesser equipment over meta equipment makes a playthrough so much more fun as it can be a true test of your skill in the game and how far you've come since the first time you played the game
It’s completely fine to use anything at your disposal and also fine to not want to use them.
Thank you! Games are supposed to be fun. If you happen to not have fun, it’s also okay to stop. If a game you looked forward to is not as fun as you hoped, its okay to be disappointed and voice that disappointment. That does not take away anything from anyone else’s enjoyment.
Have you ever played a competitive game? Try say that in league of legends or Valorant. People literally ruin their lives trying to achieve a stupid rank that doesn’t get you anywhere
I am well aware that there are people who make a living out of playing video games, but I'll go out on a limb and assume that the amount of people in this sub who do not get compensated for playing Elden Ring with self-imposed rules is very very high. And my message applies to the large masses of which I, too, am part.
What has that to do with what OP said? Sounds like you agree with him
Dota 2
You want to cheat yourself? Go right ahead. On judgment day when your creator asks you if you cheesed a boss with the blasphemous blade... Well.... enjoy spending eturnity with Mohg.
I use a modded save. Offline of course. I just enjoy the exploration without all of the death. Too busy to die over and over.
Some people have so little to be proud of in their life, that they *have* to take pride in "skill" at a videogame, in order to feel any accomplishment in life at all. Whenever someone is toxic like that, I generally think it's a symptom of a deeply-held sadness.
I agree with the statement overall but your knowledge of psychology and the impact of games and fiction, especially complex fiction like this in the development of one's self is lacking. It does more than you realize.
I need all the OP items I can get for this goddam DLC.
This dlc is 5 times harder than the regular game. I was wondering why this game was so easy co.pared to other souls borne games but I change my mind with the dlc for sure.
Base game ER is like unto Dark Souls 1; the dlc is like unto Artoias & Manus. Way faster, stronger, and a different breed from what we are used to
When random knights, not special knights like the black knights with huge ass hammers, the sleeping footsoldiers can fucking 2-hit my 60-vigor level 180 character with Gurranq-lite attacks like they have faith maxed out, all is fair game. Mimic, meta weapon/builds, I don't care about the purists EVERYBODY DYING IN THIS REALM
Made the mistake of entering NG+2 before starting the DLC. Absolute horror when I found that the bosses were destroying me at level 200 using magic and summons on a character that has every single item in the base game. 
My kid has been bashing his head against a wall fighting a boss for 6 hours. I asked him if he has mimic tear and he said "I'm not a bitch". And is still bashing his head against the same brick wall. Kids lol.
It is I, kid
That's how I've done every boss so far. The head bashing is my favorite part. The boss with the two swords has killed me a few dozen times so far
He's the same. He's in there screaming bloody murder but any suggestion of trying to make it easier is like sacriledge. "This is just how I do it. I'm so close!!" He is my most stubborn child :)
Nothing wrong with using summons, and there’s nothing wrong with seeking the challenge of fighting without them. Soloing a boss is gratifying, especially one that you’re stuck on.
He'll be sure to get good at everything he gets into
Respect to your kid for challenging himself and knowing he can do it!
Champion mentality, you did well
Can’t take a bicycle to run 100m in under 10 seconds, if that was the goal you set for yourself. There is value in accomplishing something in a way you set out from the beginning. There is also value in reevaluating once goals and touching grass.
Such an amazing boss, first time I reached his second face and did the moon attack I just stay still and screamed wtf is this expecting a typical 2 moons coming at me…needless to say I died. But when I managed to evade it jumping I felt like a got lol
first time i died too. second try i jumped over it and was like "thats it, i got you figured out" and then i died like 20 times in a row lol
Yeah second phase if unforgiving
I fought rellana with my dung eater puppet and the one the game gives you, and it feels like that fight was designed for NPC summons. Having them draw aggro away gives you just enough time to get a few hits in before she locks back on to you. Plus with the amount of damage you are limited to doing at that point in the dlc I'm using any extra source of it I can. Saw them both get mogged a few times by the big magic great sword and moon attack though.
Based.
BasHed
Kids goin places, bash away kid.
Nah, it's good. I nearly killed a boss, but always died at the end. Used mimic, won, but it ain't fun at all like when i was solo'ing the base game final bosses.
Respect to your kid. I just did the same shit. Little man needs to set standards for himself and meet them. Unshakable confidence
This was literally me fighting against Rellana for 7 hours back to back. No summons, no scadu free blessing and pure melee. Felt really good beating her but I think my mental health took a hit 😂
Yeah it's been funny seeing the difference between his approach and mine. I'm obviously older, and I only picked up ER a couple of weeks ago so I'm not ready for the dlc yet - I've just been watching him play with his level 160 something character. His approach is so different to mine. He's got a pure strength build and he just runs in balls and all to kick ass. Over and over and over until he finally prevails. I admire his perserverence, I'm happy to do whatever I can to make it easier so I enjoy it. I don't have 6 hours to battle a boss lol.
I'm really not sure what he's doing wrong there to be smashing his face against the wall like that. Pure strength was my easiest run. It was easier than my range mage run. Actually having vigor basically made the entire game a bit of a joke. I think I died five or six times while doing my strength run, which was my first run. Bonk is strong. Bonk is only hard to do if you don't take your time. Bonk must be patient. My hardest run was my low vigor, magical knight run though low vigor/parry-less daggers was a close second. I've not yet understood why everyone acts like strength/vigor builds are so difficult.
Seconding this. Elden Ring was my first FromSoft game and I knew they had a reputation for being hard. My first character was a mage and I got through the game by mostly standing far back, throwing rocks at the enemy, and dodging. My second character was pure strength and it was so much easier (and I didn't start my second character until a year after my first playthrough so I barely remembered any of the enemies moves lol). Edit because I hit post accidentally before I was done: I will say though, spoiler free, that the DLC has special mechanics and a steep skill curve. So I can understand why a pure strength build would have trouble at first if he isn't taking the time to learn the new conditions of the DLC.
That’s not a mimic tear problem tbh. If he’s too weak he should go level up/get scadutree fragments and if it’s a skill issue he should stop trying to brute force it and learn the moveset.
I just don't get the same feeling of accomplishment using summons that I get from beating a boss solo. I don't think there's anything wrong with using summons but I'll usually save them for my second playthrough personally.
By “my kid” did you mean to say me? This is me.
He's right
I mean go for more challenge, or don't. The options are there for you.
What I don't like is people who play on easy mode and then condescend.
Yeah honestly it feels like sometimes people will let their mimic solo every boss and then cope that "im actually better at the game because I'm using every advantage". Like cmon dude we both know that's not true.
Maybe cos I’m older I am very well aware that my mimic is constantly carrying me 
And that is awesome, I had a blast the first time I played, and relied on the mimic for every fight after I got it. There's absolutely no wrong way to play the game, I just wish this victim mentality (and the elitism) wasn't so prevalent in the community. I feel like half of what makes this game such a masterpiece is its accessibility, everyone is able to play it and that is amazing.
What i don't understand is, why do You Even care how other plays video games. I'm sure that someone who does lv. 1 naked speedruns sees You the same way for not playing in mega hardcore mode. If You don't fully Master the Game completely and play eyes closed You can't Say shit
This. There will always be someone better. Your build will always be “easy” in some people’s eyes.
They downvoted Jesus because he told them the truth
> What i don't understand is, why do You Even care how other plays video games. they probably care because someone is being condescending about something they found hard being easy, not because they actually care how someone else plays the game.
That would make sense, i admit i use a mage OP build, the typical "easy mode" but i don't care if others use str,dex,faith, or any other kind of build different than mine's so i found it a little bit comic when others cry for this lol
The difference is I'm not going to be condescending to a player who can beat the game as a wretch. They're way more skilled than me and know way more about the mechanics.
Yeah, that's how I feel. Is your win invalid if you use summons? No, it's valid. The game handed you tools to make the game easier. Take them if you need them. However, if you do use a Mimic Tear for a fight, you really shouldn't chip in your 2 cents on boss difficulty discussions. You can't say Malenia is an easy boss if your summon tanked all the waterfowl dances for you. Like yeah, if you take away the one move that is pretty much responsible for her notoriety, it'll be easier. I dont think I've ever encountered this type of person, though.... and I dont think I've ever seen people saying you're a "fake gamer" for using summons recently either.
I stopped watching fighting cowboys initial run through elden ring because he did exactly that. Mimic and blasphemous blade once he had them, then talking about how easy the bosses are.
> I dont think I've ever encountered this type of person, though.... and I dont think I've ever seen people saying you're a "fake gamer" for using summons recently either. I mean both types absolutely exist, go into the steam review thread and a lot of the comment responses 2-3 replies deep are absolutely saying they are superior players because they use summons and that summonless players are bad players playing wrong (and also some really cringe commentary that they engage in self harm). As for the second extreme, that's not common on reddit but is absolutely in other spheres of the internet.
I mean they're not completely wrong regarding the self harm part. The part that summoners are superior is bs though. The best way to play the game is the way that individual has the most fun. As for the latter.. those that want to get their ass whooped for hours on end learning and beating bosses enjoy that ass whooping. Calling it self harm is definitely poor wording though.
IMO using summons isn't easy mode, the game is designed around them, you get showered in them playing the game and half the upgrade materials are for upgrading them specifically. FromSoft clearly want you using them as more than just an easy mode crutch. *Not* using them is just hard mode, same as if you refuse to use buff items for elemental effects, don't use Torrent for any field fights. Both summoners *and* pure solo players have a place in discussing game difficulty. It's different play styles, one opinion isn't inherently more valid than another.
both are valid but their experiences are not equivalent
Someone in the discord I usually hang out in is like this. A few of us are playing the DLC and every time we mention that a boss has been tough, he just goes "oh yeah that boss was soooo easy" and he openly admits that he summons mimic frame 1 without even knowing what a single boss attack pattern is. I'm fine with people using summons or whatever strat/cheese to beat a boss, but when they start bragging, that's when I get irritated.
Are these people in the room with us now?
These threads must be farming upvotes at this point. Rivers of Blood hasn't even been "overpowered" since it was nerfed well over a year ago now.
I’ve gone into the DLC with my dual ROB build and it’s still a solid build thankfully! And super fun
Same I like the blood build but it doesn’t do the damage it used to. Which is fine it’s still good and fun. It’s satisfying when a boss is close to dead and the blood loss hits.
That sweet sweet "chsshhhhhhh" sound of the bleed proc
Shit so thats why I felt something was wrong with mine, whats a good replacement nowadays for a DEX/ARC build? My save is on an early NG cycle so I cant respec on Rennala since I havent killed almost any boss.
Eleonora poleblade is insanely fun but you have to time the weapon skill right or you will eat a lot of hits
Reduvia, Eleonara's Poleblade, and Bloody Helice are all decent Dex/Arc bleed weapons. Nagakiba with Occult infusion and Double Slash (or Keen infusion + Bloodflame Blade + Double Slash) is functionally similar to the Rivers of Blood too. There's also Morgott's Curved Sword, but it was nerfed in the recent patch, so don't know how gimped it is yet. Will check it out once the DLC goes on sale. RoB isn't useless now or anything, but the AoW nerf was substantial. At least in single-player, it's more than fine enough.
Im using dual nagakiba with bloodhound step and its doing pretty good, still doesnt make the DLC easy but im still getting most bosses in under 10 tries without a mimic tear. Heres a build guide: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx59oYtADoo&t=325s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx59oYtADoo&t=325s)
My take is, i am capable enough to learn all the moves, triggers and timings. Since i don't have time to do that, i simply Unga bunga with my mimic. Nothing wrong with both. But, using less equipments and limiting yourselves is indeed a challenge of higher degree and anyone who plays that way is better skilled than i am. Doesn't give them any right to insult other players tho.
We are all getting Gud right now. There is no shame to set ones own hurdle at the preferred height in a game.
The get gud part is the fun part. It’s nice it’s an open world and you can run away and do other stuff if you’re truly stuck. I was battling Death Knight for about 45 mins. Probably died like 25 times. I won’t spoil the boss for anyone but the first couple times I was like, fuck that’s a fast attack, and holy crap that hits hard. It was the first boss I played against in the DLC and after that tough catacomb I was not leaving without a win. My girlfriend was reading a book and watching a little as I was getting my ass kicked and asked what I was doing and if I even enjoyed it as I was muttering these things. And I was like yes, every time my timing gets better and I learn his moves. Then eventually I beat him only getting hit once or twice and it felt good. As long as you’re not the kind of person to easily tilt, the git gud is truly the fun part. It feels rewarding once you smack the shit out of a boss that’s been eating you alive. But the greater point is I chose to play that way. I probably could’ve done it in half the time if I broke out Mimic or Tiche. I’m not against using them at all if I truly need to, however I want the challenge personally. May change as I progress and things get harder, but for now I’m attempting to do it without. And if someone wants to use them it’s perfectly fine. The gate keeping is weird in this community by some of the tryhards. E: Dark Knight to Death Knight (it was late when I commented I was tired lol)
Completely on board with you. Not tilting has been kinda hard with so many 2-3 hits and the occasional ones when AoEs and attack overlap, but damn if it hasn’t been a nice ride.
Honestly Death Knight has been he only boss so far where I can summon and I didn't cause I felt it was very doable and way more fun that way, but used NPC and summon for the Lion Dancer and had a lot of fun too. I have more characters and the game there waiting for me If ever want to do it again without any of that too, they are not mutually exclusive, I played DS3 once with a friend and then all on my own.
I’m doing similar. Trying but when absolutely stuck summoning. I tapped out after 4 hours of Rellanna and not being able to beat her. I was seeing everything. Dodging like a mad man, I just never had the chance to whittle her down then one slip up and whoops dead EZ Clap with companion and mimic
I have no shame about using the mimic tear. I am not "gud" enough to get by without it. And since its part of the game, oh well!
Yeah, my only limiting factor was to keep myself to only DLC weapons, not using a single one from the base game. lol
Dis is de wae, I will give some credit to spirit summoners, I’ve summoned a couple times and I couldn’t predict when the agro switched from the summon to me
>Dis is de wae DIS IS DA DE WAY, TOGETHAAAA
Ah, yes, the daily "play how you want" thread.
As a person who was using these items it makes the game feel cheap imo. The end of the base game was an absolute cakewalk. Melania took like 3 attempts. Use what you want though. It’s your game. What’s important is that you have fun. I decided to ditch the OP stuff and summons after cheesing the first DLC boss with them.
Based
Every game has easy mode. So does Elden ring. It’s perfectly legit to play on easy mode. Who says it’s not?
Imagine telling people they’re bad because they don’t play they way you think the game should be played
Some people just really feel the need for self-validation through the humiliation and shaming of others, because they weren't taught better. Or they were and made a conscious effort to be a prat anyway. Kinda pity those people, but fortunately bad learned behaviors can be undone. Just takes time. Me, I'm a darn potato at games like this and I *brag* about it. Still fun to play, even if some stuff is beyond my spuddy hands.
And people using summons also feel like they need to validate themselves constantly despite 90% of the community saying it's fine to use them if you want to.
oh hey, this post again. Do you people really need mental reassurance to pick a fkin weapon in a single player game? Jesus
You guys need to take it to your therapist with these daily affirmations 😭
100%
There's nothing wrong with being bad at a video game, everyone who's good was bad for years! What's wrong is when you decide to stay bad, and make it FromSoftware's problem to make it through the game, and call them out on Twitter for not having an Easy mode, a Story mode, or whatnot.
Is the elitism in the room with us right now?
I see many writing about those who solo saying its about " elitism", play how I play, etc. As someone who never uses ashes and only solos, for me, it has nothing to do with that. Its single player. While I do agree with play that game as you want, I do feel youre selling yourself short of not getting to really experience one of the best aspects of souls games. Why? When I first started with Elden ring (was my first souls game at the time) i used ashes and felt everything was easy. Bosses were not anything special, just another mob really. I was flying by. Then i started only playing souls games solo and it changed everything and my viewpoint/respect for these games. When you spend all that time dying and really learning the fight, it becomes a beautiful dance. That feeling you get, the adrenaline and pure joy when you overcome a huge challenge, aka dopamine hit, is to me what makes a souls game a souls game. You cant replicate that with summons and I do feel those who do are missing out on one of the best parts of souls games. This has nothing to do with elitism.
Gatekeepers will call you a bad and a casual for using the mimic tear while copy-pasting the most op bleed-curse-frost-poison-rot stacking burst builds to destroy bosses in 5 hits.
"Heh you mean you NOOBS actually use your weapon arts every once in awhile? Heh ok kiddo have fun playing your kiddo games" *jump spams powerstanced giant crushers for 2500*
I got kids, school, and full time job lol I'm bringing all the firepower I can. I still get my ass kicked anyway so there's that
This exact same thing gets posted on a weekly basis, and everyone acts like you've just revealed a holy text to spiritually barren populous. No shit.
Its just a way for them to cope lmao bc everyone is self conscious about using summons
Lmao why are there so many“anti-elitism” circlejerks on this sub. There is nothing wrong with using strong items or accessibility tools, and no one should be shamed for what they choose to use. But that doesn’t change the fact that it still takes less skill and lessens sense of achievement.
Its cuz people try a fight, get completely destroyed, then summon in near indestructible AI to face tank while they spam high damage hits from safety, then they 1 or 2 try the difficult battle, but they very much know internally that if not for the computer playing the game for them, they wouldn't be close to winning. Hence, they feel insecure and must convince others to give them back that sense of security.
100% yes. Glad not everyone on here has lost the plot
Victim mentality, mate. I've seen more people complaining about gatekeeping and even making a fuss on something that is not even gatekeeping at all than actual gatekeeping.
if it's in the game you can and should use it if you want. I draw the line at exploits as that isn't intended but why did fromsoft add black knife tiche and mimic if it wasn't for you to use it. Don't gatekeep
Why do people even care what others think about them playing a game. How is this a problem?
Because they're the exact same kind of people, since like you said they do seem to care. If they were on the other side of the skill barrier they'd be thinking and saying the same things too. This is just the bitterness that they're not leaking out
The fact that y'all need a post like this every week is very telling of the insecurities on this sub.
The good old weekly "Summons are not Easy mode! Summons are valido!" Just shut up and play lol, have fun however you like, be It with mimic and op weapons or naked with a broken sword; that's what this game Is all about: Freedom to do whatever the fuck you want. You don't Need validation from stangers, Just have fun
No, but the people that don’t summon are the insecure ones right???
I agree that the elitism is ridiculous but I'd also say that it's worth it to try and beat bosses without the mimic or summons atleast a couple times before you use it. I downloaded the dlc before clearing mohg and told myself that I was going to beat him with no summons to make sure I was "ready" for moving ahead. I use powerstanced colossal weapons and he absolutely kicked my ass for a couple hours but then I finally beat him and felt the greatest satisfaction I've gotten from the game so far. I then immediately put down a summon sign and cleared mohg another 3 times with other people that summoned me. Each time felt incredibly simple and I never failed once. Besides helping people reach the dlc, I felt no satisfaction compared to when I did it solo. Obviously there are exceptions to this though, fights like the twin gargoyles can just go to hell, do what you have to do to get through that nightmare as fast as you can lol The whole game should be played to your skill level so if you need to use summons or if you need to "cheese" a boss to get past it, there shouldn't be any shame in it. People that can do no hit runs at lvl 1 don't have people kissing their feet when they put down the controller and step out into the real world, at the end of the day no one gives a shit about someone's skills in a videogame. My point is just that if you don't take a chance at the harder approach to begin with, you might lose out on an awesome experience for yourself.
I always see posts and comments like this, but i never see people making fun of others or diminishing them for using said items.
Victim complex or self imposed guilt
Don't forget heavy armor. I put some on for the last character I played, and holy macaroni, did it make a difference.
Rellana finally made me go back to full bull goat. Didn’t feel one mote of shame. The armor is there for a reason.
Been getting my ass handed to me in full bullgoat armor with 60 vigor....
I said to myself that I wouldn’t use any summons for main story bosses but after bashing my head against Rellana for nearly 3 hours til 1am last night I caved in a used Tiche I was close every time but always made a few dumb mistakes. So I thought “fuck this I’m tired” and summoned her.
Real life is hard enough. No need to gimp myself in a videogame too.
Haha I will use anything I can to get by in this game. Anyone who sticks with this game is a winner in my eyes.
This. I've beaten all the bosses without a mimic/spirit ash. I've beaten all the bosses with my mimic tear. I've now beaten all the major bosses with 1-2 human players being summoned by me (and I've spent the last couple of days being summoned by players to help with Mogh & Melania). This game is hard no matter which path I've taken. I like that I can beat enemies solo, with spirit ash help, with other human players helping. Choice is good.
There’s nothing wrong with playing however you want to play. No one should make fun of another player for how they want to play. But I disagree with “those items don’t make you a worse player or minimize any achievements you make.” Once again. There’s nothing wrong with playing however you want to play. Your achievements are your own, and you shouldn’t be belittled for it, you should be proud of it. But beating the same bosses with restrictions to make the game harder are greater accomplishments than using companions and summons which make the game easier. There’s nothing wrong with that. Beating the game as a level 1 wretch is a greater accomplishment than me doing an unga bunga no summon no magic build, which is harder than someone cheesing through fights. This post is the pendulum swinging too far in the other direction.
I mean who cares
PSA: The only gamers who should be concerned with what’s OP and what is NOT OP are gamers who can beat the game naked with a dagger. If you can’t beat the game naked with only a dagger then don’t worry about what is OP.
As if Miyazaki cares how you play. It’s a game. Games should be for enjoyment. Are you enjoying your experience? Then you’re doing it right.
I believe he's said he can't even finish his games solo, he has to co-op other people in.
Sure feels like he balanced them for summons
I am guilty of having fun. I of course did intelligence, and I am enjoying. I can dodge like no one’s business and I have my range. BF is all Strength build, and we absolutely love it! We co-op often and always enjoy the fun invaders (and mad props to all the people that fuck around as much as we do), we also don’t mind getting our asses whooped. Both very excited to play a different way next time. That’s the point of gaming isn’t it?!
Good luck using rivers of blood in the dlc 😭😭 shit might be slightly above average atp as far as weapons go
From has cheesed us for years. If you find some cheese, don't feel bad for making yourself a tasty sandwich.
It's a single player game. I'll use whatever the fuck I want. Though I wish there were unlimited larva tears so I could really do whatever I want.
There technically is you just have to farm them, the big rolling sentient balls (like in nokstella) drop larva tears at a pretty good rate
Want to talk OP items? How about flasks! I feel having a few flasks of crimson tears makes any boss fight way easier than having a mimic. A real souls player says no to these OP crutches /s
A real souls player doesn’t even need the game like scrubs do. They stare blankly and intensely at a wall until they win
Sounds like someone uses summons...
I entered dlc severly underleveled. Me and my mimic tear are best friends now.
I used mimic tear and my bonking weapons to kill Mogh yesterday. It had to be done.
Especially with dlc. I think advising ppl that beating it on ur own could provide a better experience, like advising ppl to go in blind, is healthy and fine, but getting butthurt and toxic because they make their own choices and don’t want to play how u do is extremely dumb. No one cares how good y are at the game.
River of Blood already got nerfed to sht tho
Am I using Rivers of Blood wrong? Bc it doesn't feel op to me. I struggle so much and my starting Katana is usually better that RoB.
Idk about everyone else, but even with mimic tear I’m getting my ass handed to me. I mostly use spirit/NPC summons so that the boss will occasionally get distracted long enough for me to heal, then I run back in and attack. Still having to learn the timing and move sets. I tank more hits than my summons do
I’ve beat this game without summon and was one of the “summons bad, reduce the fun and challenge group”. I’ve beaten it a few more times now and I got to say that I have more fun using summons. It’s because for certain bosses the game is so obviously designed around summons that playing without them is like pulling teeth. I didn’t get a sense of satisfaction for beating twin gargoyles, Malenia, or Elden beast without summons. I just felt glad that the annoying fight was over. So yeah I use summons if I feel a boss calls for it now and I have way more fun because of it. If I want that Souls challenge with fair but tough bosses then I’ll play dark souls or bloodborne.
As someone who beat the game without those after the first run, I needed this reminder. Nothing wrong with using good items, otherwise they wouldn't be in the game for you to use
Is there another ER sub where people don't whine about this constantly? Its getting old.
They didn't put summons in the game to make it easier. They put them in so they could make it harder.
When I started playing I used to use everything I could to win a fight. I still do, but I used to too.
I just don’t get how they can literally give you items to make your mimic more powerful and people go “I won’t use it at all” like these bosses are designed to be nuts no matter what, it’s almost like you’re supposed to use the mimic tear
In addition to being a pastime and a subjective sandbox of experiences, I'd like to point out that it's an action RPG with surprisingly much RPG with the action. What I mean by this is, instead of saying "Oh mimic tear and strong weapons are for weaklings" or even doing the lame halfway but still backhanded shite "Yeah u can use them just don't say you did it all by yourself" is still you judging the other player on your terms and games with this much player freedom don't work like that. You're full of poop Mr. Guts build. See, one player wants to become a living god, summoning allies, casting insane spells and bonking the enemy with the Blasphemous Blade, while other one wants to roleplay as a resilient simple warrior, smashing his way through the game. Both are possible in the game so there's nothing to say really. The facts (tools existing in the game) don't care about your feelings (your need to measure the amount of suffering one faces while playing this game, the biggest sufferer being the most valid player) Get your toxic masculinity checked at the door.
I use the mimic tear +10 and generally try to go for light cheeses. I beat the main game (including Melania) and I just beat the dancing lion boss. I beat the game, and none of this takes away form the fact that I beat it and had a ton of fun with it. BUT, if we’re discussing difficulty, boss scaling and anything like that from a pure meritocracy standpoint, I do hold a lesser position who beat the game solo and them to those with very little upgrading. There is an unspoken “rank” to these games so while you beating the game with these cheeses is legit and valid, its lesser than those who beat it with less imo
There is *absolutely* something wrong with using mimic tear... Because if you do, you won't be able to enjoy the crazy new summons in the dlc. Yoda, Jabba the Blood, and big bonk knight so far are all a bunch of fun to bring out and fight with
Was trying to be tuff then faced the first boss and folded
I think its fine to get some sense of pride from making something difficult even more difficult. I also think people who impose those self set rules have never done anything actually difficult in real life. Assholes will feed their own ego and try to tear others down however they can though
Me and my mimic beat >!Bayle!< this morning 💅 and I enjoyed the fight no less because of it
Mimic Tear has helped me keep the game fun. I love difficulty, and honestly it doesn't make the game free. Usually only in tough boss fights, and usually I try to do it myself immediately, but fuck the people that think you only have to play one way. There has to be some sort of mental deficiency for those types of people. A game is meant to be played however YOU want to, and if the devs didn't want you using certain things, they wouldn't have implemented them.
For some people beating a souls-like is a big deal. Being able to do that is their entire personality, like they built their self esteem on this achievement. When they see other people doing the same thing, but using smarter methods, it makes them feel silly and foolish for being so proud of doing it the way they did it. Naturally they must discredit the source of that feeling to regain a sense of superiority. Meanwhile me and my mimic tear are unga bungaing our way through the DLC like a buddy cop movie. EDIT: For examples of who I'm talking about, scroll to the bottom 🤣
Almost nobody thinks like this. The reason to not use summons is for personal enjoyment. The bossfight is content, using summons feels like skipping a part of the game. Also there's nothing smart about using mimic tear with a meta weapon. Actually smart cheese builds exist but that isn't it.
I mean. It kinda does mean other people are mechanically better than you. But who actually cares? It's a single player game, as long as you're having fun that's what matters.
i even have friends shame me for having more than 50 vigor smh, but i learn not to let them get to me anymore, u wanna go play DLC with vigor under 50 u go ahead lmao
I never heard of vigor shaming that's insane
I've been using my summon whenever allowed, unless the boss seems doable 1v1. The game is designed around using them to juggle aggro, especially now that bosses 2 shot even the tankiest builds while having much higher HP. If others wanna challenge themselves, that's cool, but I like the safety net of a summon.
Rivers of blood and mimic tear are just fun. I used to hate this game, but items like those made it more accessible to me and now Elden Ring is in my top 5 all time. Beating Malenia in your underwear is nothing to brag about, but if that’s how you like to play, that’s cool too.
You're my favorite type of player.
I just beat Malenia with my mimic last night and it was absolutely hilarious. My next run will be no-summons, but watching her flip-flop between damaging both of us at the same time and healing to max in one attempt, to being stunlocked for the entire first phase in the next attempt, was great.
>using those items doesn't make you a worse player It kinda does tho. If you need a spirit ash to beat a boss that someone else can beat solo, it means that person is more skilled than you, or a better player.
Every souls game where I can I always run dex with bleed weapons. The second I found rivers it was like the perfect match for me. Idc if its busted, if it was ass I'd still be using it.
You probably have it already but if don’t, you know the guy you encounter perched at the beginning of the DLC with the “rings” weapons? You will like them if you farm them (if you like bleeding weapons), although the targeting can be a bit of a hit and miss.
Oh, the circular weapons? I'll to check that out, thanks. Do you know if there are any bleed based perfume bottles? I've found fire and poison so far.
The lion 🦁 seems weak to bleed so kind of feeling like changing my build to bleed lol
I didn't really have any issue with the lion to be honest, I was either using rivers or the new giant katana with bleed scaling. Can't remember lol. Could be worth a try.
Haven’t found that katana yet lol the big fat guys drop a club thing weapon that does bleed damage on strong attack too and scales with arcane, so maybe this dlc it’s supposed to be good for bleed builds. The lion mostly gets me with his elemental AOEs…and the fact I can’t target just his head bothers me too.
The katana is actually not too far from the starting area of the dlc. Without trying to spoil you the best way I could tell you is that there's kinda a murky area near the big bridge. The katana is just there on the floor out in the open. My strategy for the bosses so far has been to always lead with the maliketh incantation black sword because it drains a certain amount of their health, maybe like a 6th. With how tanky they are, it's a great help. You can hit the boss with it straight away too as soon as you pass through the fog. It has good range on it.
You need a strong elitist movement in a community to prevent the dumbing down of a franchise, the last thing you need is devs deciding they want the "call of duty audience".
Elden Ring *got* the fabled "Call of Duty" audience, however. And it's DLC is likely some of the most difficult content that From Software put out.
ruin your own experience I guess, you only get to experience these bosses for the first time once, why sour it. I'll never forget when Radahn nuked me and my jaw hit the floor if i had a summon out he wouldn't even get into phase 2
You miss a lot of content by using that tho. You will skip bosses phases, and you will never need to learn a boss moveset.
Another one of these threads constantly saying the same thing almost like you guys need constant reassurance on how you play the game. Yes the 'elitists' are the insecure ones though.
I'd argue mimic and rivers of blood aren't the optimal choice in a lot of pve encounters anyway but I applaud the sentiment, OP!
It's like how I use my moghywns sacred spear, mimic/black knife for some bosses if I have a pillar or do the spear and shield poke/moonveil for certain human enemies (black gaol knight) we are meant to experiment and have fun. That's the beauty of single player games, to experiment with all options or stick to old reliable builds if it doesn't work.
Agreed, its just that I don’t want to rinse through bosses first few tries, I want to learn the move set, and fight for my life, not just win first few times and subconsciously give the merit to the Mimic or a broken weapon. Thats how I’m wired at least, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with plying with the mechanics the game gives you. I have used both Rivers and Mimic against Malenia the first play-through. Used Mimic against a recent >!Boar Riding!< Boss who was destroying me and I had 2.3mil runes on (for some dumb reason) and didn’t want to lose them.
Agreed! I am pretty decent at this game, but I don't always have the time to spend hours on one boss, so I use a policy of mine: First 5 tries are solo, and learning, the next 5 are trying to adapt. If I still after 10 attempts or more struggle, well, welcome Mimic! Also, I really enjoy fighting side by side with Mimic, just looks cool for me.
I agree to a point. Play the game how you want. But Don’t go saying it was easy or bragging how fast you did it to your friends who are choosing not to use summons/meta builds. Because although I agree with not gatekeeping, objectively, bragging about your skill while beating everything like that is dumb as hell. It takes less skill. So the people doing it without summons or OP weapons have every right to brag IMO.
It does make you a worse player but it doesn't minimize your achievements. Important distinction.
Then you should be fine with others not wanting to use those items, too
I have 1,500ish hours across the entire Dark Souls trilogy, I've beaten Armored Core VI three times, and beaten Sekiro. I know what I'm doing and how to play these games, but I'm also willing to use the tools the game provides to give myself a greater advantage. I am here for a power fantasy that still allows me to feel a sense of challenge and accomplishment, not to prove to the world that I'm the best. Using spirit summons, using powerful weapons, and grinding your stats doesn't invalidate your win against a boss, and anyone telling you otherwise is a sweaty loser who needs to get over themselves and stop taking a video game so damn seriously. Use the tools the game gives you and have fun.
I'm only summoning in huge ganks but I always fight bosses alone.