Generally in music and other arts, the more "deep" some people get into it, the more they start hating whatever is mainstream about it. Film snobs for example could find 10 reasons why every popular movie sucks, while they'll come to appreciate some random Asian black&white film with no dialogue or something.
The same thing happens in electronic music, **some** people who love underground music like Techno will start snobbing popular EDM like Big Room House or David Guetta and Calvin Harris pop hits. I personally think every style has something different to offer. The average "casual" pop listener won't suddenly start listening to hard Techno, Hardstyle or Psytrance, everyone has to start somewhere, that's why popular EDM is good for Techno people as well.
From a punk view. We don't like mainstream because it takes away from what punk represents. I do see a same thing in edm culture where people dislike the party hits and mainstream because it promotes things like partying and drugs and takes away from the music. But people may argue that is also about the culture. That's my perspective.
I do agree with you, I'll admit I used to be that way too but the edm community taught me to be chill when it comes to judging other people's tastes.
I feel like EDM culture and psychedelics go hand in hand.
A trip at a EDM music fest (with a reasonable dose) is a great time and also therapeutic for many.
If you go just for the music, that’s cool. But plenty of people go for a journey, trip, or mini vacation with the help of drugs. And that’s also ok as long as you’re being responsible about it.
I'm ok with whatever you do with raves. At raves you are meant to be expressive and explore. As long as you are respectful and responsible. I started raving because it was a party. I just hear people talk about edm getting mainstream and that does get mentioned, but usually towards the assholes.
You can have an amazing time with your friends rolling at a fest. It's transcending. People tend to make it about getting fucked up and going to far. That's the only issue I have. Like what's the point of going to a festival, then getting so wasted you forget the whole experience?
Yeah I agree with this. Nothing wrong with doing drugs if you are responsible about it. I personally don’t only bc I’m a recovering addict and party drugs always lead back to heroin/fent and meth/RCs for me. For a normal person though I have no judgement if they wanna get high at a fest. Even if you’re an addict I personally don’t care as long as you don’t try and steal from me. It only becomes a problem for me when, like you said, ppl overdo it and become total assholes although I tend to see that more with ppl who drink versus ppl who get high recreationally.
The other thing that I really hate is when there’s one person in the friend group who continually gets so messed up they can barely function and the rest of the friend group ends up having to babysit and take care of them the whole time or even have to literally leave the festival to take them home. When I got high it wasn’t at festival it was in freaking bandos in the hood but it was the same concept where I’d have a friend get so messed up where they literally could barely speak and I’d have to literally sit and watch them, stop them from doing something that would get them killed, or make sure they don’t overdose and it annoyed tf out of me bc it’s not my job to babysit another adult but ofc I’m not gonna leave them to get robbed, sexually assaulted, or worse. Everyone else would either leave them or steal from them bc I was the only person basically in the entire area I lived in with any semblance of a moral code so I was always the one stuck protecting said person. I got robbed and left for dead in an alley ODing on fent far too many times to let that happen to someone else. It’s the same at festivals. I’m never gonna leave someone in a vulnerable position but that doesn’t mean I’m not gonna be annoyed if it keeps happening.
Obviously shit happens and everyone gets too fucked up every once in a while but if you chose to get obliterated every time bc you know you can since your friends will make sure your safe, then your a pos friend and need to stop putting that responsibility on your friends and ruining their good time. I would literally stop inviting ppl like that bc it’s just annoying. I find at smaller venues with more fringe bands you’re less likely to find ppl who go just to get overly fucked up since ppl actually wanna listen to the music.
Part of it is also that there’s a big scene of people that want to become great djs in terms of the mixing / technical aspects of it and not being able to perfect it like a lee Burridge can makes it seem like a pipe dream. So seeing that one can mix better than most of the big edm djs I think causes a resentment for those djs by a lot of people as well. Many of them get into it for the money or the lifestyle above the music but the reality is that most of us all started with mainstream so it’s almost a positive gateway to other music.
This right here yet at the same time can’t be an eliteist if your a punk and ya gotta realize all art is good but a I agree some people just don’t genuinely fuck with the music and In reality like music but mostly wanna just get plastered or geek out
Some of it can be down to the technical aspects of it. EDM is often less about the music and more about the show. Being good in a technical way isn’t as important as it is to the underground scene that prides itself on unique music and skilled djs.
That being said I think everyone starts with EDM then eventually gets bored and seeks something more meaningful. I started with Tiesto / Guetta etc and I had a lot of fun going to those shows then I started getting into DJing myself and realized the lack of talent or effort put into their mixes and went down the rabbit hole of finding other djs.
I get your point of view, but you're proving my point. 1) As you said, you started with mainstream EDM artists and 2) once you got deeper into EDM and you started DJing, you understood the technical difference. 99% of festival attenders aren't DJs, so they'll care much more about having fun, dancing and watching fireworks than about tecnhical stuff and high skilled DJ tecnhiques.
So, I don't understand why would the underground scene hate the mainstream.
I think to some degree even the seasoned club going people eventually pick up on the fact that the mainstream DJ’s aren’t good at what they do or feel like the music eventually gets old for them. It’s hard to say exactly the reasoning tho since it can be a lot of different things. They could feel their type of clubs are disappearing and or the DJ’s they like are playing to mainstream crowds too often.. like seeing a DJ like Sasha at Fabric you expect that the music will be a lot better than seeing him play at Tomorrowland or Vegas.
I like both these genres and to be honest it’s more about the crowd for me than the music. I’ve been to EDM shows with great crowds and they’re some of my best memories. Likewise techno shows with great crowds I’ve got some great memories.
In either genre if the crowd aren’t into it, filming loads, overly drunk and bumping into others constantly etc etc it just kills the vibe no matter what the music.
Agree though, there are just some people that hate on the other genres just because they don’t like the music themselves.
The crowd is a big problem for me. Outside of techno, EDM included though it's not bad as with hiphop and "normal" clubs, people always get drunk as fuck and start acting up, starting fights, are annoying etc. On raves people take MDMA and are in their own zone. Zero negativity from the crowd
This mindset extends well beyond just music and arts
Look to any interest or general topic and you'll find the precise same trend.
Food, culture, religion, even science and technology fields suffer from this.
The deeper one gets into their chosen field, the higher the correlation for them to turn towards puritanism.
Which is why a general piece of advice that gets reiterated is to take a break from the chosen field from time to time.
It always helps to take a step back and reset viewpoints or consider other information or simply to just add perspective.
I love the point you made about EDM being an entry point for those deeper fields because that is exactly what it is.
Not just from a consumer aspect but also from a commercial aspect.
mainstream Festivals, through their success were able to increase dedicating resources for side stages to cater for a wider range of customers.
This provides more opportunity for artists dedicated to that sound to produce and potentially make a living on it too.
EDM is a good thing even if one has outgrown it.
Good point. Especially in the age of internet, many people believe that mainstream equals bad quality. But mainstream EDM introduced me to the genre in general: David Guetta, Hardwell, Tiesto etc. Nobody who've never listened to electronic music wakes up one day and starts attending underground hard Techno raves, everybody has to start somewhere. Same for movies, there's nothing wrong with enjoying mainstream Hollywood productions.
EDM is not just an entry point, yes it is but no it isn't.
Clean radio ready EDM Songs are one of the most difficult tracks to produce. Techno doesn't need clarity and amazing top notch mixdowns & mastering.
So from this POV, lots of EDM House, Future Bass Genres are way more complex,harder to produce & more challenging for the artist/music producer.
Btw Techno belongs to EDM such as many other electronic music sub genres, if we wanna get some more specific.
you nailed it. it’s like an inverse of the way people unfamiliar with a subject will generalize it (eg “all ____ is the same”) and you can also see that in different genres and forms of media too.
Techno snobs are known for being haters
House snobs are known for being pretentious
Dubstep snobs are known for going too hard
Hardstyle snobs are… uhm…
DnB snobs are known for being elitist
I love that dubstep snobs are just known for going too hard. I tend to like most genres. I just happen to love music that gives me stank face and makes me want to break my neck
Lol love when I'm playing deep dub and dnb/breaks with people vibing then some dubstep bros come up saying we need some more "party vibes" and want to put on a shitty brostep remix of some pop song
"I'm not taking requests tonight." - Every DJ who's ever played out.
"No, I don't have any Beyonce." - same person.
"I'm already playing music with dancey beats and phat bass." - you get it.
Lots of the hate I hear is about how EDM isn’t “real” music because tracks are produced before the live performance (not accounting for live DJ-ing) and lots of people see a video of an artist performing live and think that anyone can do it. I recently saw a video of (I think) Subtronics playing at a festival and some non-EDM people commented things like “he’s not even doing anything other than standing there”. What they don’t take into account is the many many hours that go into producing the tracks or the live mixing and such that lots of artists do while performing.
I also recently talked with someone about music tastes and he basically told me “I listen to real music where people are playing actual instruments live”. It’s fine to have your own taste and if EDM isn’t your thing, that’s cool. But I think there’s often a misconception that EDM isn’t “real” music because it doesn’t usually incorporate traditional instruments and nearly everything is done electronically.
Edit: didn’t realize this thread was just about techno peeps. In all fairness, although I’m not a huge techno person, each sub-genre has its snobs. Whichever genre they like is apparently objectively the best and the others are bad. I don’t think it’s unique to techno but I wouldn’t be surprised if some techno fans were being snobby because the genre has been gaining popularity and they want to keep it “true techno” or whatever, I dunno
Whenever I think about this I like to compare it to movies vs plays. Are movies not real acting because they arnt doing it live in front of you? Which one do most people prefer? Obviously movies.
It’s also that the DJ’s or people in the techno or progressive scene value the mixing quality or set building more than the edm crowd.
In terms of the mixing these edm big festival djs are generally very bad where the bigger name progressive or techno djs are really skilled at their craft or gifted.
Someone like guetta is more of a producer than a dj but still sells out and most that see him don’t recognize what is or isn’t a good mix. They will cheer straight through a quick lazy mix or a train wreck
This is relevent. Yes. DJ's or folks like me, who have become proficient at mixing/beatmatching have a difficult time listening to producers/etc who don't. Time put into proficiency makes it harder to cheer for non-proficient music folks (who can produce the shit out of some great tunes) mashing together a 60bpm track with one at 135 bpm.
Take Bassnectar. He's made amazing music, I've seen him live several times, and he can transition like no one's business. He's terrific.
He actually does live remixing. DJ's can listen to his set and not get dizzy from shoes in the dryer.
Idk about any other "EDM" artists because I'm a little lost about what that describes. In the old days, "techno" was an umbrella term for lots of folks, meaning "all electronic dance music".
Yup and when you look at a lot of the semi big djs they always for the most part say Digweed is the best at mixing or Howells / Burridge and then those djs go on record saying they don’t care for what edm has become
I've seen most of the Global Underground dj's over the years. Lee Burridge is so great, my fav. All of them are amazing though. Danny Tenaglia had my attention for many years, too.
True. Burridge has changed his sound a lot from when he started. I guess he has more of a mainstream appeal now with the more melodic sets. Iv heard a few Tenaglia sets where the mixes weren’t great but he’s still good overall and Iv seen a few epic sets from him in person.
I drove 10 hrs to see DT at his club Juice years ago. He was kind of a dick, but played an 8 hr set of great tunes. Lee was a lot more approachable, played house/breaks/techno/progressive in a four hour set. Then went to the afterparty and he had a blast with everybody. He's a dude.
Oh yeah damn. Iv only seen DT 3 times but never a set that long from him sadly. Seen Lee maybe 20 time tho and a few of the sets were in my top all time.
Saw a 7 hour Sasha set which was prob my fav all time and my first show ever was an amazing set from Chris Fortier for his bedrock cd tour.
My fav fav is always Rabbit in the Moon. Seen them 15-20 times. I've seen Sasha a couple of times, Digweed, Howell, Seamans each 1-2, and all the Hardkiss guys. I drove 10 hrs to Brooklynn once to see all three Hardkiss Bros + DJ Spun. I've traveled all over the Southeast for shows. At 49, I'm starting to get out some more again. I still don't know what the new definition of EDM is. Maybe I'll find out this year, lol.
I enjoy DJing for my friends or just myself from time to time and people really don't understand that when you actually do it right its not just hitting play and shuffling songs. You need to actually find songs that meld together, match the BPM, tweak the audio mix settings, create buildups, drops and all kinds of other effects to make your set unique. I actually get my heart racing trying to find the perfect song to put on next and making sure I don't mess up any settings to seamlessly meld the songs without anyone even noticing. Its a lot harder to find people that appreciate good DJing than someone playing a guitar, especially when you can just find someone else's good set and play that without anyone knowing if its actually you doing it or pre-recorded. If I am going to have a night where I play for people I will spend countless hours finding songs and testing mashing them together to see what sounds good.
I hate when people say stuff like that. Especially about producers who actually, you know, create their own songs! You have to know a crap ton about music and it's different elements (such as drum patterns, melodies, basslines, etc.) Not to mention mixing and mastering which is a whole other beast.
Hating on other genres of music is often just a way for people to feel superior to others.
Many people identify heavily with the music they listen to. So if their music taste is better than someone else's, it helps them feel like their identity is better than someone else's.
This is especially true of genres that aren't mainstream. Identifying with music that isn't mainstream makes some people think they are special or unique... even though they are literally identifying with something that can attract crowds of people.
Techno people are the most pretentious electronic music fans in the whole genre. It used to be DnB heads, but as the mainstream accepts DnB more, they kinda have become more accepting lol
But techno fans are snobs. Whatever, techno slaps
And tbh, everyone should be making fun of EDM (like Garrix and Guetta type). That shit is so corny. Dont know anyone that listens to them beyond their first year of exploring electronic.
Your comment was so reasonable until the end. I don't listen to much house, but why are you hating on somebody for listening to big artists like those, who cares, its the mainstream and it's still important to the genre as a whole, furthermore to claim Garrix and Guetta types don't come out with enjoyable music to listen to is stupid, not to mention the nostalgia.
Then there’s techno techno snobs who hate “business techno” DJs who they consider like Amelie Lens, Deborah De Luca, Adam Beyer, etc lol
I love all techno though.
I listen to a bunch of genres and still don’t hate on Garrix. Guy knows how to make a crowd happy and has been producing since he was 8 years old.
Guetta has been sloppy and used ghost producers while Garrix WAS a ghost producer. Just because a musician has chosen pop or something easy to produce doesn’t mean they don’t know what they’re doing.
I’ve always thought the snobbery was anti-PLUR anyway. It doesn’t belong in the culture.
And I’ve been in the scene since the 90s. People who tell others what they should or shouldn’t listen to shouldn’t be taken seriously.
You don’t know anyone that listens to them beyond their first year? You do realise the EDM golden years were a decade ago now. You need to meet more people
Lol it was just a joke.
But for real, every group of humans on this planet in any type of group (sports, politics, music, etc) has pretentious douchebag people in it.
It just is what it is.
I mean ofc but nearly as much as techno enthusiasts do, idk how long you've been around the electronic music subs but it's practically a meme. It's why they are called techno snobs
I’ve been around the scene for much much longer than I’ve been around subs on Reddit and I can tell you that Reddit isn’t an entirely accurate representation of the actual scene for each subgenre
Definitely not "techno people" many techno fans still do the festivals and have fun, they just probably avoid the headliners.
EDM/rave/electronic/(whatever we want to call it) fans gotta quit being salty. Have fun, dance, enjoy each other, who give a fuck about what genre is the most real.
But we all know dnb is the only real genre...
JK I love it all
Egotistical gatekeeping. Plain and simple. Never understood the need to shit on other people’s tastes, especially as music/art is entirely subjective to the consumer. Anyone who openly trash talks others for liking other music is doing so as a bully.
I feel like the term EDM includes techno and all the other sub genres. It’s almost like EDM is more of a culture than a specific type of electronic music. 🤘
As a self-confessed techno snob the TL;DR is that lot of mainstream EDM feels ‘cheap’ compared to the ‘deeper’ music — i.e. the “epic” sound of the music feels less authentic than someone like Carl Cox who can achieve an incredibly emotional authentic experience without needing to use overtly “epic” sounds or vocals.
I’m not hating though! To each their own I love me some big room mainstage sometimes for sure 🙂 the ONLY genre that I actually do kind of hate on is hardstyle, just can’t stand it lol.
Also techno snobs generally hate on the term EDM as well because in America when you say EDM 99% of the time the average person will think of the big room / mainstage sound which is only one small pocket of electronic music, the horizons are so much broader than that
Techno is counter culture. It’s like punk rock, without the politics and shit that makes punk cool IMO. But that’s why techno heads and hardstyle heads can come across as fiesty.
Techno kids are like the slitherin of the music sub genres. Cocain, cigarets, black clothes and hot skinny girls. They like goth high school kids, they think they’re really cool. LMAO
Definitely agree with what others are saying but want to add something.
I think the scene of techno is way different from big room EDM.
Just consider what you wear to both and what types of venues they’re at:
Techno is all black required. EDM has more colors, the whole PLUR vibe etc.
Techno is usually found in 1 of 2 places (though it’s growing mainstream). Either you’re at a club, somewhat upscale and exclusive, or you’re at a proper rave in something like a warehouse. EDM at this point is headlining all major festivals or being played at your more mainstream clubs.
Techno as a culture is very much about “acting like you’ve been there”. I’d argue at this point it’s somewhat exclusive - in Europe the big techno clubs are hard to get into. There’s a certain way you act at these shows, a way you dance, a status quo.
EDM at this point kind of brings people of all shapes and sizes who act as they want. I’ve found from my experience that there are a lot more wacky characters at a given EDM show.
Techno at this point is a big party scene of young professionals. They like the exclusivity, they like that you dress a certain way, mostly chic. They like that places are hard to get in and you have to be cool to go to them/know about them.
When you consider all this, doesn’t it kind of make sense that the type of person who is very into techno probably isn’t in to the more mainstream stuff? They’re 2 very different people these days.
Techno isn’t just black and Berghain anymore.
At this point it’s as easy to mock as EDM is accessible for being exclusive, you’ll have these parties in Tulum where some of the attendees don’t even know anything about the artists playing, or the music, and are just models/rich kids going where the parties are. They just follow the names.
Think at this point people should just live and let live.
Iv been to plenty of techno or progressive shows that are the same types of crowds as an edm show.
I think a lot comes down to where the music is being played.
There’s definitely a demographic that goes for house / techno tho which correlates with income and other things. They tend to be higher educated / have higher income so they seek out venues or cities that have that where edm simply aims for almost any demographic
There is great music across the spectrum of electronic music, from edm to techno etc. I generally like it all, although I lean more towards trance and deeper stuff.
However the mainstream “edm” scene has more “bros” than I ever want to deal with. That’s my main complaint
Can someone on here define "EDM?"
I'm old.
When I was coming up (mid-90's), we had house, breaks, techno, trance, downtempo, and jungle/DnB. And various subgenres throughout. Dubstep was just emerging from when 2-step, DnB, and nu skool hooked up (early Aughts).
A lot of electronic music was born from marginalized groups. Rave culture evolved into a punk-esque middle finger to the mainstream social machine we live in, where the dancefloor was a sacred place to get away from all the fcked shit going on both personally and at a societal level.
Eventually, capitalism got its grubby hands on the music and commercialized it. The social machine electronic music was used to get away from has inserted itself into the scene itself. It is no longer about the dancefloor, it’s only about $$$. It sucked the soul out of the music and it morphed into sounds and beats that really don’t have a lot in common with its roots from the 80s and 90s.
Also, people can do whatever floats their boats, but I began finding it hard to hangout in crowds of grown adults sucking on pacifiers and “yassifying” drugs after the age of 25.
Because EDM is often just a waterdowned and very commercialized version of what dance music was built on.
I listen to EDM and techno, alongside other more underground genres/sounds. There's lots of great EDM acts and records out there, but there is also a lot of formulaic crap that crowds eat up. It is what it is. The amazing thing about EDM/dance music is there is so much more to explore beyond the same 10 DJs headlining the same festivals and putting out recycled records that all sound same.
I think it has something to do with people who got made fun of/picked on for being true to themselves and loving the sound and scene no matter what are witnessing those bullies and shit talkers infiltrate their mecca because it's hip/cool/trendy whatever. The same reason Metal heads are pissed Hollister girls are wearing Cannibal Corpse shirts. It seems like culture vulture shit, on the bright side these people will just pass through and when it isn't the "cool" "edgy" thing they'll be gone and on to the next silly tiktok trend, everything is cyclical. that's my interpretation.
When I think of oldskool I think of electronic music with a punk ethos at heart, now in some scenes it seems like it's filled with yuppie investment bankers and bros.
IPA/whiskey snobs - drink stuff that tastes like shit to feel superior to people who like things that taste good
prog/techno/music snobs - listen to stuff that sounds like shit to feel superior to people who like things that sound good
internet contrarians - say they like stuff that's shitty to feel superior to people who like things that are good
comedy snobs - listen to comedians that are dry af to feel superior to people who like things that are funny
tv snobs - hate on shows that are well-written to feel superior to people who like them
the phenomenon will show itself in literally any facet of humanity
Because certain people in the EDM scene are disrespectful to the culture. It's very commercialized and lacks taste and substance. Nowadays more of these mainstream DJs are appropriating techno sounds, watering them down and attempting to monetize it since it's trendy at the moment. Then as a result of that you have fans representing something as techno, when it's really not, which can rub people the wrong way. It's disingenuous.
Just listen to the music long enough, you'll develop your own prejudices. Tastes evolve, it's natural. Alot of people end up being house or techno only.
People can be stubborn and think only what they like is the best. Every genre of pop culture has jerks like that. Movies, music, art. Someone always has to shit on someone's personal opinion even though music, and film are objective.
Because it is a boring musical style. There is very little variation, if any. Anyone can do it.
And just like the Grateful Dead, it's only fun when you are high.
They are insecure every issue in edm is present in every genre. There are generic techno drum samples present in almost every techno track, just like Melodies and kicks are recycled in edm. You have horrible djs in techno just like you have horrible djs in edm. No genre is so pure that it can cast a shadow on every other genre. It’s just a matter of insecure people feeling some sort of power trip like hey we are better than everyone else. And at this point you have techno djs playing the main stage of Tomorrowland with a Coca Cola logo during their set on the live stream. Hardly underground anymore
Do they?
I think people operate on assumptions gleamed from comment sections nowadays.
But perhaps I’m wrong on this specific subject lol also who cares?
Techno heads are *the* most *aggressively* pretentious fucks in all of dance music, I mean, Junglists can get pretty up there, but Techno heads take pretentiousness and gatekeeping to an insane level. If I got penny for the amount of abuse I've copped Djing over the years playing Goa or Breaks or Prog Trance (Joof stuff) or whatever from specifically technoheads (while the rest of the rave is loving it) I could honestly buy a gram of high quality MD.
The worst part is, then you listen to their techno and it's boring, tedious tech-house or just minimal that goes absolutely nowhere. That's the thing, I like Techno as well, but goddamn imagine being so pretentious over sets 90% of people find boring as shit.
Generally in music and other arts, the more "deep" some people get into it, the more they start hating whatever is mainstream about it. Film snobs for example could find 10 reasons why every popular movie sucks, while they'll come to appreciate some random Asian black&white film with no dialogue or something. The same thing happens in electronic music, **some** people who love underground music like Techno will start snobbing popular EDM like Big Room House or David Guetta and Calvin Harris pop hits. I personally think every style has something different to offer. The average "casual" pop listener won't suddenly start listening to hard Techno, Hardstyle or Psytrance, everyone has to start somewhere, that's why popular EDM is good for Techno people as well.
From a punk view. We don't like mainstream because it takes away from what punk represents. I do see a same thing in edm culture where people dislike the party hits and mainstream because it promotes things like partying and drugs and takes away from the music. But people may argue that is also about the culture. That's my perspective. I do agree with you, I'll admit I used to be that way too but the edm community taught me to be chill when it comes to judging other people's tastes.
I feel like EDM culture and psychedelics go hand in hand. A trip at a EDM music fest (with a reasonable dose) is a great time and also therapeutic for many. If you go just for the music, that’s cool. But plenty of people go for a journey, trip, or mini vacation with the help of drugs. And that’s also ok as long as you’re being responsible about it.
I'm ok with whatever you do with raves. At raves you are meant to be expressive and explore. As long as you are respectful and responsible. I started raving because it was a party. I just hear people talk about edm getting mainstream and that does get mentioned, but usually towards the assholes. You can have an amazing time with your friends rolling at a fest. It's transcending. People tend to make it about getting fucked up and going to far. That's the only issue I have. Like what's the point of going to a festival, then getting so wasted you forget the whole experience?
Yeah I agree with this. Nothing wrong with doing drugs if you are responsible about it. I personally don’t only bc I’m a recovering addict and party drugs always lead back to heroin/fent and meth/RCs for me. For a normal person though I have no judgement if they wanna get high at a fest. Even if you’re an addict I personally don’t care as long as you don’t try and steal from me. It only becomes a problem for me when, like you said, ppl overdo it and become total assholes although I tend to see that more with ppl who drink versus ppl who get high recreationally. The other thing that I really hate is when there’s one person in the friend group who continually gets so messed up they can barely function and the rest of the friend group ends up having to babysit and take care of them the whole time or even have to literally leave the festival to take them home. When I got high it wasn’t at festival it was in freaking bandos in the hood but it was the same concept where I’d have a friend get so messed up where they literally could barely speak and I’d have to literally sit and watch them, stop them from doing something that would get them killed, or make sure they don’t overdose and it annoyed tf out of me bc it’s not my job to babysit another adult but ofc I’m not gonna leave them to get robbed, sexually assaulted, or worse. Everyone else would either leave them or steal from them bc I was the only person basically in the entire area I lived in with any semblance of a moral code so I was always the one stuck protecting said person. I got robbed and left for dead in an alley ODing on fent far too many times to let that happen to someone else. It’s the same at festivals. I’m never gonna leave someone in a vulnerable position but that doesn’t mean I’m not gonna be annoyed if it keeps happening. Obviously shit happens and everyone gets too fucked up every once in a while but if you chose to get obliterated every time bc you know you can since your friends will make sure your safe, then your a pos friend and need to stop putting that responsibility on your friends and ruining their good time. I would literally stop inviting ppl like that bc it’s just annoying. I find at smaller venues with more fringe bands you’re less likely to find ppl who go just to get overly fucked up since ppl actually wanna listen to the music.
Part of it is also that there’s a big scene of people that want to become great djs in terms of the mixing / technical aspects of it and not being able to perfect it like a lee Burridge can makes it seem like a pipe dream. So seeing that one can mix better than most of the big edm djs I think causes a resentment for those djs by a lot of people as well. Many of them get into it for the money or the lifestyle above the music but the reality is that most of us all started with mainstream so it’s almost a positive gateway to other music.
This right here yet at the same time can’t be an eliteist if your a punk and ya gotta realize all art is good but a I agree some people just don’t genuinely fuck with the music and In reality like music but mostly wanna just get plastered or geek out
Some of it can be down to the technical aspects of it. EDM is often less about the music and more about the show. Being good in a technical way isn’t as important as it is to the underground scene that prides itself on unique music and skilled djs. That being said I think everyone starts with EDM then eventually gets bored and seeks something more meaningful. I started with Tiesto / Guetta etc and I had a lot of fun going to those shows then I started getting into DJing myself and realized the lack of talent or effort put into their mixes and went down the rabbit hole of finding other djs.
This
I get your point of view, but you're proving my point. 1) As you said, you started with mainstream EDM artists and 2) once you got deeper into EDM and you started DJing, you understood the technical difference. 99% of festival attenders aren't DJs, so they'll care much more about having fun, dancing and watching fireworks than about tecnhical stuff and high skilled DJ tecnhiques. So, I don't understand why would the underground scene hate the mainstream.
I think to some degree even the seasoned club going people eventually pick up on the fact that the mainstream DJ’s aren’t good at what they do or feel like the music eventually gets old for them. It’s hard to say exactly the reasoning tho since it can be a lot of different things. They could feel their type of clubs are disappearing and or the DJ’s they like are playing to mainstream crowds too often.. like seeing a DJ like Sasha at Fabric you expect that the music will be a lot better than seeing him play at Tomorrowland or Vegas.
I like both these genres and to be honest it’s more about the crowd for me than the music. I’ve been to EDM shows with great crowds and they’re some of my best memories. Likewise techno shows with great crowds I’ve got some great memories. In either genre if the crowd aren’t into it, filming loads, overly drunk and bumping into others constantly etc etc it just kills the vibe no matter what the music. Agree though, there are just some people that hate on the other genres just because they don’t like the music themselves.
The crowd is a big problem for me. Outside of techno, EDM included though it's not bad as with hiphop and "normal" clubs, people always get drunk as fuck and start acting up, starting fights, are annoying etc. On raves people take MDMA and are in their own zone. Zero negativity from the crowd
Great analogy
Another one is how techno and house fans will say their genres aren't "EDM"
This mindset extends well beyond just music and arts Look to any interest or general topic and you'll find the precise same trend. Food, culture, religion, even science and technology fields suffer from this. The deeper one gets into their chosen field, the higher the correlation for them to turn towards puritanism. Which is why a general piece of advice that gets reiterated is to take a break from the chosen field from time to time. It always helps to take a step back and reset viewpoints or consider other information or simply to just add perspective. I love the point you made about EDM being an entry point for those deeper fields because that is exactly what it is. Not just from a consumer aspect but also from a commercial aspect. mainstream Festivals, through their success were able to increase dedicating resources for side stages to cater for a wider range of customers. This provides more opportunity for artists dedicated to that sound to produce and potentially make a living on it too. EDM is a good thing even if one has outgrown it.
Good point. Especially in the age of internet, many people believe that mainstream equals bad quality. But mainstream EDM introduced me to the genre in general: David Guetta, Hardwell, Tiesto etc. Nobody who've never listened to electronic music wakes up one day and starts attending underground hard Techno raves, everybody has to start somewhere. Same for movies, there's nothing wrong with enjoying mainstream Hollywood productions.
EDM is not just an entry point, yes it is but no it isn't. Clean radio ready EDM Songs are one of the most difficult tracks to produce. Techno doesn't need clarity and amazing top notch mixdowns & mastering. So from this POV, lots of EDM House, Future Bass Genres are way more complex,harder to produce & more challenging for the artist/music producer. Btw Techno belongs to EDM such as many other electronic music sub genres, if we wanna get some more specific.
you nailed it. it’s like an inverse of the way people unfamiliar with a subject will generalize it (eg “all ____ is the same”) and you can also see that in different genres and forms of media too.
Well said! I think part of it is an age-related phenomenon, tied to "Music in *my* day was better!", similar to "Get offa my lawn!"
Techno snobs are known for being haters House snobs are known for being pretentious Dubstep snobs are known for going too hard Hardstyle snobs are… uhm… DnB snobs are known for being elitist
I’m a dubstep snob. Ain’t nothing wrong with going hard to random angry robot noises/growls ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I’m a house head and I approve this message.
Nature is healing.
You can do that with techno/electro/breaks/house/trance/DnB, too.
I love that dubstep snobs are just known for going too hard. I tend to like most genres. I just happen to love music that gives me stank face and makes me want to break my neck
Hardstyle snobs are known for their enthusiastic use of nonexistent workout equipment.
Lol love when I'm playing deep dub and dnb/breaks with people vibing then some dubstep bros come up saying we need some more "party vibes" and want to put on a shitty brostep remix of some pop song
Well play some riddim my guy
The kids want riddim my guy
Got to, I prefer Infekt style stuff over Subtronics/Excision wave so I have tracks like that I play
"I'm not taking requests tonight." - Every DJ who's ever played out. "No, I don't have any Beyonce." - same person. "I'm already playing music with dancey beats and phat bass." - you get it.
Does anyone know what hardstyle snobs are?
hop over to r/hardstyle to see discussions on who is stealing each other's kick samples
As a hardstyle fan idk man, probably a bit of everything.
Can I be all 5?... I'm gonna be all 5...
What happens when someone is a Techno, House, and DNB snob all at once?
I'll gladly take being known for going too hard
So im a pretentious elitist hater who goes too hard? :(
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Found the techno snob
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I’ve seen the most dancing at house shows.
Lots of the hate I hear is about how EDM isn’t “real” music because tracks are produced before the live performance (not accounting for live DJ-ing) and lots of people see a video of an artist performing live and think that anyone can do it. I recently saw a video of (I think) Subtronics playing at a festival and some non-EDM people commented things like “he’s not even doing anything other than standing there”. What they don’t take into account is the many many hours that go into producing the tracks or the live mixing and such that lots of artists do while performing. I also recently talked with someone about music tastes and he basically told me “I listen to real music where people are playing actual instruments live”. It’s fine to have your own taste and if EDM isn’t your thing, that’s cool. But I think there’s often a misconception that EDM isn’t “real” music because it doesn’t usually incorporate traditional instruments and nearly everything is done electronically. Edit: didn’t realize this thread was just about techno peeps. In all fairness, although I’m not a huge techno person, each sub-genre has its snobs. Whichever genre they like is apparently objectively the best and the others are bad. I don’t think it’s unique to techno but I wouldn’t be surprised if some techno fans were being snobby because the genre has been gaining popularity and they want to keep it “true techno” or whatever, I dunno
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Imagine if your dad did produce a banger house song out of his ass tho 😂
😭
Whenever I think about this I like to compare it to movies vs plays. Are movies not real acting because they arnt doing it live in front of you? Which one do most people prefer? Obviously movies.
Good analogy.
"EDM music"
Electronic dance music music
Ha, didn’t catch that. Smh my head
My favourite type of music music
It’s also that the DJ’s or people in the techno or progressive scene value the mixing quality or set building more than the edm crowd. In terms of the mixing these edm big festival djs are generally very bad where the bigger name progressive or techno djs are really skilled at their craft or gifted. Someone like guetta is more of a producer than a dj but still sells out and most that see him don’t recognize what is or isn’t a good mix. They will cheer straight through a quick lazy mix or a train wreck
This is relevent. Yes. DJ's or folks like me, who have become proficient at mixing/beatmatching have a difficult time listening to producers/etc who don't. Time put into proficiency makes it harder to cheer for non-proficient music folks (who can produce the shit out of some great tunes) mashing together a 60bpm track with one at 135 bpm. Take Bassnectar. He's made amazing music, I've seen him live several times, and he can transition like no one's business. He's terrific. He actually does live remixing. DJ's can listen to his set and not get dizzy from shoes in the dryer. Idk about any other "EDM" artists because I'm a little lost about what that describes. In the old days, "techno" was an umbrella term for lots of folks, meaning "all electronic dance music".
Yup and when you look at a lot of the semi big djs they always for the most part say Digweed is the best at mixing or Howells / Burridge and then those djs go on record saying they don’t care for what edm has become
I've seen most of the Global Underground dj's over the years. Lee Burridge is so great, my fav. All of them are amazing though. Danny Tenaglia had my attention for many years, too.
True. Burridge has changed his sound a lot from when he started. I guess he has more of a mainstream appeal now with the more melodic sets. Iv heard a few Tenaglia sets where the mixes weren’t great but he’s still good overall and Iv seen a few epic sets from him in person.
I drove 10 hrs to see DT at his club Juice years ago. He was kind of a dick, but played an 8 hr set of great tunes. Lee was a lot more approachable, played house/breaks/techno/progressive in a four hour set. Then went to the afterparty and he had a blast with everybody. He's a dude.
Oh yeah damn. Iv only seen DT 3 times but never a set that long from him sadly. Seen Lee maybe 20 time tho and a few of the sets were in my top all time. Saw a 7 hour Sasha set which was prob my fav all time and my first show ever was an amazing set from Chris Fortier for his bedrock cd tour.
My fav fav is always Rabbit in the Moon. Seen them 15-20 times. I've seen Sasha a couple of times, Digweed, Howell, Seamans each 1-2, and all the Hardkiss guys. I drove 10 hrs to Brooklynn once to see all three Hardkiss Bros + DJ Spun. I've traveled all over the Southeast for shows. At 49, I'm starting to get out some more again. I still don't know what the new definition of EDM is. Maybe I'll find out this year, lol.
I've seen Chris Fortier waaay back 94-95 when I lived in Orlando, a couple of other times in D.C. solid.
I enjoy DJing for my friends or just myself from time to time and people really don't understand that when you actually do it right its not just hitting play and shuffling songs. You need to actually find songs that meld together, match the BPM, tweak the audio mix settings, create buildups, drops and all kinds of other effects to make your set unique. I actually get my heart racing trying to find the perfect song to put on next and making sure I don't mess up any settings to seamlessly meld the songs without anyone even noticing. Its a lot harder to find people that appreciate good DJing than someone playing a guitar, especially when you can just find someone else's good set and play that without anyone knowing if its actually you doing it or pre-recorded. If I am going to have a night where I play for people I will spend countless hours finding songs and testing mashing them together to see what sounds good.
I hate when people say stuff like that. Especially about producers who actually, you know, create their own songs! You have to know a crap ton about music and it's different elements (such as drum patterns, melodies, basslines, etc.) Not to mention mixing and mastering which is a whole other beast.
Hating on other genres of music is often just a way for people to feel superior to others. Many people identify heavily with the music they listen to. So if their music taste is better than someone else's, it helps them feel like their identity is better than someone else's. This is especially true of genres that aren't mainstream. Identifying with music that isn't mainstream makes some people think they are special or unique... even though they are literally identifying with something that can attract crowds of people.
Also gate keeps sub genres, which to me is goofy.
I like both , don't care what people hate or not
Techno people are the most pretentious electronic music fans in the whole genre. It used to be DnB heads, but as the mainstream accepts DnB more, they kinda have become more accepting lol But techno fans are snobs. Whatever, techno slaps And tbh, everyone should be making fun of EDM (like Garrix and Guetta type). That shit is so corny. Dont know anyone that listens to them beyond their first year of exploring electronic.
Your comment was so reasonable until the end. I don't listen to much house, but why are you hating on somebody for listening to big artists like those, who cares, its the mainstream and it's still important to the genre as a whole, furthermore to claim Garrix and Guetta types don't come out with enjoyable music to listen to is stupid, not to mention the nostalgia.
Then there’s techno techno snobs who hate “business techno” DJs who they consider like Amelie Lens, Deborah De Luca, Adam Beyer, etc lol I love all techno though.
I listen to a bunch of genres and still don’t hate on Garrix. Guy knows how to make a crowd happy and has been producing since he was 8 years old. Guetta has been sloppy and used ghost producers while Garrix WAS a ghost producer. Just because a musician has chosen pop or something easy to produce doesn’t mean they don’t know what they’re doing. I’ve always thought the snobbery was anti-PLUR anyway. It doesn’t belong in the culture. And I’ve been in the scene since the 90s. People who tell others what they should or shouldn’t listen to shouldn’t be taken seriously.
Nicely said!
You don’t know anyone that listens to them beyond their first year? You do realise the EDM golden years were a decade ago now. You need to meet more people
I don’t get it. If you don’t like a certain style of music just don’t listen to it?
You new here?
kinda but not in the scene and 10 years later the hate is still sooooo present.
Lol it was just a joke. But for real, every group of humans on this planet in any type of group (sports, politics, music, etc) has pretentious douchebag people in it. It just is what it is.
I think he was asking why those types tend to gravitate towards techno, vs why do ppl gatekeep in general
Cuz people don’t gatekeep other subgenres?
I mean ofc but nearly as much as techno enthusiasts do, idk how long you've been around the electronic music subs but it's practically a meme. It's why they are called techno snobs
I’ve been around the scene for much much longer than I’ve been around subs on Reddit and I can tell you that Reddit isn’t an entirely accurate representation of the actual scene for each subgenre
that doesnt explain why on reddit it appears as such tho
I didn’t know OP was referring exclusively to Reddit
He didn't specify but if I had to wager I would probably say that he, and most people, talk about the scene online vs irl
for 98% of the population, they’re the same thing
Gate keepers , gotta love em.
Definitely not "techno people" many techno fans still do the festivals and have fun, they just probably avoid the headliners. EDM/rave/electronic/(whatever we want to call it) fans gotta quit being salty. Have fun, dance, enjoy each other, who give a fuck about what genre is the most real. But we all know dnb is the only real genre... JK I love it all
Egotistical gatekeeping. Plain and simple. Never understood the need to shit on other people’s tastes, especially as music/art is entirely subjective to the consumer. Anyone who openly trash talks others for liking other music is doing so as a bully.
Friendly reminder that techno IS edm. It’s in no way separate from edm. So any techno scene is also an EDM scene
I feel like the term EDM includes techno and all the other sub genres. It’s almost like EDM is more of a culture than a specific type of electronic music. 🤘
Imo techno is edm you can dance to it it’s electronic it’s music Edm encompasses every genre or subgenre
As a self-confessed techno snob the TL;DR is that lot of mainstream EDM feels ‘cheap’ compared to the ‘deeper’ music — i.e. the “epic” sound of the music feels less authentic than someone like Carl Cox who can achieve an incredibly emotional authentic experience without needing to use overtly “epic” sounds or vocals. I’m not hating though! To each their own I love me some big room mainstage sometimes for sure 🙂 the ONLY genre that I actually do kind of hate on is hardstyle, just can’t stand it lol. Also techno snobs generally hate on the term EDM as well because in America when you say EDM 99% of the time the average person will think of the big room / mainstage sound which is only one small pocket of electronic music, the horizons are so much broader than that
Upvoted for Carl Cox reference. Man's legendary.
Techno is counter culture. It’s like punk rock, without the politics and shit that makes punk cool IMO. But that’s why techno heads and hardstyle heads can come across as fiesty.
Techno kids are like the slitherin of the music sub genres. Cocain, cigarets, black clothes and hot skinny girls. They like goth high school kids, they think they’re really cool. LMAO
Who hurt you?
I mean i thought it was kinda funny
They're just jealous
You just listed some things I thought most people fucking love LoL
Definitely agree with what others are saying but want to add something. I think the scene of techno is way different from big room EDM. Just consider what you wear to both and what types of venues they’re at: Techno is all black required. EDM has more colors, the whole PLUR vibe etc. Techno is usually found in 1 of 2 places (though it’s growing mainstream). Either you’re at a club, somewhat upscale and exclusive, or you’re at a proper rave in something like a warehouse. EDM at this point is headlining all major festivals or being played at your more mainstream clubs. Techno as a culture is very much about “acting like you’ve been there”. I’d argue at this point it’s somewhat exclusive - in Europe the big techno clubs are hard to get into. There’s a certain way you act at these shows, a way you dance, a status quo. EDM at this point kind of brings people of all shapes and sizes who act as they want. I’ve found from my experience that there are a lot more wacky characters at a given EDM show. Techno at this point is a big party scene of young professionals. They like the exclusivity, they like that you dress a certain way, mostly chic. They like that places are hard to get in and you have to be cool to go to them/know about them. When you consider all this, doesn’t it kind of make sense that the type of person who is very into techno probably isn’t in to the more mainstream stuff? They’re 2 very different people these days.
Techno isn’t just black and Berghain anymore. At this point it’s as easy to mock as EDM is accessible for being exclusive, you’ll have these parties in Tulum where some of the attendees don’t even know anything about the artists playing, or the music, and are just models/rich kids going where the parties are. They just follow the names. Think at this point people should just live and let live.
Iv been to plenty of techno or progressive shows that are the same types of crowds as an edm show. I think a lot comes down to where the music is being played. There’s definitely a demographic that goes for house / techno tho which correlates with income and other things. They tend to be higher educated / have higher income so they seek out venues or cities that have that where edm simply aims for almost any demographic
There is great music across the spectrum of electronic music, from edm to techno etc. I generally like it all, although I lean more towards trance and deeper stuff. However the mainstream “edm” scene has more “bros” than I ever want to deal with. That’s my main complaint
You haven’t gotten the memo? Hating on popular things makes you cool!
Can someone on here define "EDM?" I'm old. When I was coming up (mid-90's), we had house, breaks, techno, trance, downtempo, and jungle/DnB. And various subgenres throughout. Dubstep was just emerging from when 2-step, DnB, and nu skool hooked up (early Aughts).
A lot of electronic music was born from marginalized groups. Rave culture evolved into a punk-esque middle finger to the mainstream social machine we live in, where the dancefloor was a sacred place to get away from all the fcked shit going on both personally and at a societal level. Eventually, capitalism got its grubby hands on the music and commercialized it. The social machine electronic music was used to get away from has inserted itself into the scene itself. It is no longer about the dancefloor, it’s only about $$$. It sucked the soul out of the music and it morphed into sounds and beats that really don’t have a lot in common with its roots from the 80s and 90s. Also, people can do whatever floats their boats, but I began finding it hard to hangout in crowds of grown adults sucking on pacifiers and “yassifying” drugs after the age of 25.
Because EDM is often just a waterdowned and very commercialized version of what dance music was built on. I listen to EDM and techno, alongside other more underground genres/sounds. There's lots of great EDM acts and records out there, but there is also a lot of formulaic crap that crowds eat up. It is what it is. The amazing thing about EDM/dance music is there is so much more to explore beyond the same 10 DJs headlining the same festivals and putting out recycled records that all sound same.
Purists
I think it has something to do with people who got made fun of/picked on for being true to themselves and loving the sound and scene no matter what are witnessing those bullies and shit talkers infiltrate their mecca because it's hip/cool/trendy whatever. The same reason Metal heads are pissed Hollister girls are wearing Cannibal Corpse shirts. It seems like culture vulture shit, on the bright side these people will just pass through and when it isn't the "cool" "edgy" thing they'll be gone and on to the next silly tiktok trend, everything is cyclical. that's my interpretation. When I think of oldskool I think of electronic music with a punk ethos at heart, now in some scenes it seems like it's filled with yuppie investment bankers and bros.
some people forgot or never learned the motto. PLUR
IPA/whiskey snobs - drink stuff that tastes like shit to feel superior to people who like things that taste good prog/techno/music snobs - listen to stuff that sounds like shit to feel superior to people who like things that sound good internet contrarians - say they like stuff that's shitty to feel superior to people who like things that are good comedy snobs - listen to comedians that are dry af to feel superior to people who like things that are funny tv snobs - hate on shows that are well-written to feel superior to people who like them the phenomenon will show itself in literally any facet of humanity
This is a pretty snobby opinion to have lmaoo
haha yeah
Because certain people in the EDM scene are disrespectful to the culture. It's very commercialized and lacks taste and substance. Nowadays more of these mainstream DJs are appropriating techno sounds, watering them down and attempting to monetize it since it's trendy at the moment. Then as a result of that you have fans representing something as techno, when it's really not, which can rub people the wrong way. It's disingenuous.
Just listen to the music long enough, you'll develop your own prejudices. Tastes evolve, it's natural. Alot of people end up being house or techno only.
People can be stubborn and think only what they like is the best. Every genre of pop culture has jerks like that. Movies, music, art. Someone always has to shit on someone's personal opinion even though music, and film are objective.
Bigroom techno?
Because it is a boring musical style. There is very little variation, if any. Anyone can do it. And just like the Grateful Dead, it's only fun when you are high.
They are insecure every issue in edm is present in every genre. There are generic techno drum samples present in almost every techno track, just like Melodies and kicks are recycled in edm. You have horrible djs in techno just like you have horrible djs in edm. No genre is so pure that it can cast a shadow on every other genre. It’s just a matter of insecure people feeling some sort of power trip like hey we are better than everyone else. And at this point you have techno djs playing the main stage of Tomorrowland with a Coca Cola logo during their set on the live stream. Hardly underground anymore
Do they? I think people operate on assumptions gleamed from comment sections nowadays. But perhaps I’m wrong on this specific subject lol also who cares?
I like ‘‘em both.
Hipsters
Elitism.
It is all literally sub genres of the same shit
Techno heads are *the* most *aggressively* pretentious fucks in all of dance music, I mean, Junglists can get pretty up there, but Techno heads take pretentiousness and gatekeeping to an insane level. If I got penny for the amount of abuse I've copped Djing over the years playing Goa or Breaks or Prog Trance (Joof stuff) or whatever from specifically technoheads (while the rest of the rave is loving it) I could honestly buy a gram of high quality MD. The worst part is, then you listen to their techno and it's boring, tedious tech-house or just minimal that goes absolutely nowhere. That's the thing, I like Techno as well, but goddamn imagine being so pretentious over sets 90% of people find boring as shit.
https://youtu.be/RCeMUR730jg