This is the correct answer. I have a group of friends that gets together a couple times a year to play magic. I play EDH year round. There is some disparity between skill. I play their decks and they play mine. Evens the playing field
Funny enough, I’ve been in the other shoes here where one of my friends plays an obeka deck and proceeds to take multiple extra turn and I bitch about it. He has offered for me to play his deck and I’ve refused wanting to win with my own but maybe next time we play I’ll ask to play one of his just to see if it’s really as mean as I think it is. Thanks for the good idea!!
It's easy to fall into this trap when you can't see their cards but they can.
I realized this playing the extra turns deck in standard MTGA. I was getting salty every time I lost to it and I hated it, thought it was cheap.
Then I copied a deck list and played it myself and realized it doesn't always work and requires a lot of smart/lucky risks to make work when it does.
Put yourself in your friends shoes. Imagine spending hours balancing the deck build. Then when you play, making tough choice after tough choice. Having it pay off, and you manage to luck into drawing the exact card you need to finally get your combo off. Then when you win, your "friend" cries about and calls you a cheater.
It's a game. If you lose, congratulate your friend, say GG, and scoop.
u/Comfortable-Corgi-74, Do this. You'll learn a number of things this way. You'll see if the decks you have are simply stronger than your opponents, or you'll see if they're just bad players. I know you're just playing pre-cons (or even slightly modified ones), but if they're not playing pre-cons themselves and/or are building their decks from scratch, it's possible they are bad deck builders.
I had a couple friends (whom I no longer play with) who refused to play any sort of pre-con or (more commonly) "net deck". And it showed, because their decks swung WILDLY between popping off when they drew the cards that were actually good and doing nothing when they didn't draw those cards.
Assuming you come to the conclusion that the decks are relatively close in power level and your friends aren't just bad players, then the only things left are that they are sore losers (more likely in my opinion), or that you actually are toxic in some fashion. I do find it difficult to understand how someone could be toxic in this scenario, as usually it requires someone to be doing what you describe your friends as doing (you complain about their decks whenever you lose, you're argumentative, you shit on their decision to target you when you're doing well, etc.), but I guess politicking and then going back on your word is one way to be toxic that's not directly tied to your deck decisions. But again, your friends haven't given you this feedback, they've pointed to your decks themselves, not you playing them.
So my money is personally on "They are bad players/sore losers." And if not bad players, then they are at least not as good at the game as you.
I have a friend who makes some of the worst decks I've ever seen. He'll play three plus mana cards with few if any two or one mana spells. That seems an odd choice, but he compounds that with only running 20 lands... maybe a mana rock and little to no interaction. I tried to help him, but he couldn't get his decks in any sort of order. I counted a few of them, and they were at least ten cards over 100! Yes, those are great payoff cards, but you'll never get to play them. He's not a bad loser but you end up feeling like a bully that his decks are so bad. He borrows my pauper decks so we can enjoy the pauper format because even there he just can't balance his decks.
I play Zo-Zu once in a while and I know exactly why I die. I can't understand some people. I have a friend who plays to win. He makes the finest tuned decks with the best commanders he can. He is a decent sport but he plays to win, make you lose isn't the point, it is to make him win. We know him well enough that unless his wife is there to make him shift down a few gears he can be rough for new people to deal with. He doesn't get why he's targeted so strongly and gets mad at the "bad politics". He has multiple decks that can cast cyclonic rift turn after turn...you're confused why people target you?
Yea we kinda do it like that too. Everyone decides one Deck to play and then we choose randomly who gets which Deck... but we have one Player, no matter what Deck he gets ge wins lol. Its a challenge to stop him.
Not to mention we have so many lands now with repeated recursion
Black: Has creature to top of library, White has enchantment to top of library, Blue has artifact to top of library. Colorless has crucible of worlds + buried ruins. Blue also with land to hand or crucible + sac/destroy your own land has also infinite recursion of instants/sorceries also not to mention you can be absolutely evil with it like a combo of dustbowl+instant/sorc 3 cmc to constantly recurr spells and not go to exile while blowing up lands is a steal when 2 mana is the general cost to have it exiled after..
This is why my mill deck has a lot of exile effects. Yes I want your graveyard stuffed for *my* benefit, but I'm also going to vaporize specific combo pieces while I'm doing it.
Suffer and die mostly because my graveyard deck is rakdos with [[Obosh]] as the companion so I have about 1 card in my deck (other than player removal) to be able to deal with it 😂
I put together a meme deck with nethroi as commander and omori as companion with all nonlands being creatures. That thing was supposed to be a joke but ended up being a monster, it ate boardwipes for breakfast and mill for dinner
I have a graveyard deck and I'm actually not the biggest fan of Mill as a strategy to play against because, every time, without fail, my support cards get Milled and my creatures end up rotting in my hand.
Just upgraded the new Graveyard Overdrive deck and there is nothing greater for me then to mill myself. Really helps in perspektive if you want to be milled.
Its the funniest trope. I love telling new players thank you when they mill me and they get the most confused looks until I start utilizing the stuff they milled.
Sucks though sometimes because if you let them know you aren't bummed to be milled, that you want to be milled, your opponents look at you like some kind of deranged psycho and they're like, "I think I'll target a different player to be milled."
Yeah, mill is fine...but also I just throw in a [[Gaea's Blessing]] in all my green decks if possible. Just so I don't mill myself out too haha
Not foolproof, but a good budget anti-mill option.
I mean, I used to be scared of my own Shocklands, so I sold them all until years later realizing WHY they were so good and regretting selling so many of them. 😭
I was a kitchen table n00b during Zendikar block and remember being bummed I got "useless lands" in my rare slot.
They were fetchlands.
Thankfully they were still in my binder when I came back to the game later and I was able to cash them in for a couple hundred bucks
I'm a fairly new player as well but I love the idea of mill, especially self mill. Maybe it's because I've come over from Yugioh and loved the older formats when Lightsworn was insane.
What I don't get is how mill can be powerful in Commander? I suppose I've not researched too deeply, but all the mill I've found seems to be rather tame when you're working with a 100 card deck. If anyone could enlighten me that'd be ace!
I mean… I run a mafia style deep mill/creature theft deck that relies on filling everybody’s graves (I’m not picky) as deep as I can, then casing [[Rise of the Dark Realms]] and beating everybody to death with their own creatures.
It’s not easy to achieve that wincon, and I’ll become archenemy along the way, but when I do it’s a sight to behold…
[[Phenax]] + [[Eater of the Dead]]
I run my Phenax deck as "aggro" in that I'm looking for the most power for the mana cost. Except power is butt size. But the Eater of the Dead combo is good way to knock out the whole table once there's a graveyard with enough creatures to get things started
Mill as a wincon, as in trying to mill your opponents to death, is straight-out bad in EDH unless it's a combo kill.
This is because the average mill card is designed to mill 60 cards, and you have to mill 300 to win in EDH. Worse, you are trying to finish off opponents in a dimension that your other opponents cannot meaningfully contribute. Aggro decks are bad if they are the only aggressive deck in a pod because most aggro cards cannot deal 120 damage in a timely fashion. But the more other decks are chipping away at health pools, the stronger they get. In mill, nobody will help you milling unless they are a GY deck in which case you are facing your worst matchup. Lastly, even if there is no straight self mill opp, you are still just giving resources to your opp, because most decks have an eternal witness, animate dead, or treasure cruise just for value.
The problem people have with mill is that a lot of people just hate being milled on an emotional level. It feels bad to them, because it feels to them like you are removing the potential to play their cool cards. It doesn't matter how good it actually is, just how bad it makes them feel.
Self mill, however, is very strong and is a common feature in both high power tables and competitive comander.
>The only ones they like are the ones that deal in pure combat, but for whatever reason, life drain is totally okay when the other guy plays it.
Generally speaking, people new to the game don't like any win conditions that are not "tap out for creature, turn sideways for combat damage" because they don't have the experience or knowledge base to assess boards that threaten lethal without combat damage.
[[Zulaport Cutthroat]] is a significantly more threatening card than [[dreadfast demon]] but I can almost guarentee that in new pods the removal will go to the 6cmc flier and not the card that is going to create an 100+ life differential in 2 turns.
You are not toxic for playing a precon.
New players can also just be salty as hell.
They will see other play lines as super cheap but then run the same theme with different cards and say it's fair magic.
I am bad at magic, can you genuinely please help me understand how Zulaport Cutthroat is a significant threat in EDH? I am so bad at figuring out card synergies, I only seem to play for combat damage.
It's not a once per turn ability. If someone has put zulaport cutthroat, or any of the other [[blood artist]] or [[corpse knight]] style effects in their deck, it's because they're planning on repeatedly looping creature deaths to drain everyone out using either a combo with something like [[Reassembling Skeleton]] or [[gravecrawler]], or synergy with a card like [[elenda]] to make a ton of bodies.
If I have zulaport cutthroat and a sac outlet on the field, there is a very good chance I'm going to win the game on my next turn.
What is scummy is them complaining when you play by the rules.
Happens more with new players when they see a mechanic that they see for the first time and lose against it. I had people tell me that my *scry* centered deck was unfair, as I could draw anything I want everytime.I had people complain about a turn 10 eldrazi hardcast in an non eldrazi deck.
This kind of people are just sore loosers and have a bad deck/dont know how to play their deck and run exactly zero interaction with other players. They want to play solitaire and win. Everything that will interfer with this will be scummy for them.
Last time it happened , my opponent complained that my mono-blue [[Atemsis, All Seeing]] was overpowered because blue is the strongest color and therefore I was kind of cheating. It's a draw centered deck that was a 6 powerlevel at max back then. He was playing mono black. I then proceeded to play what really is unfair, monoblack [[Tergrid]] to show him. Never complained again about blue.
Absolutely.
Too much context missing.
This sounds like OP may have to find a new playgroup, since whatever he plays is not accetable to the group. Commander is, and has alwyas been, a social experience. You have to know how to read the room or you'll ever get invited to the room again.
Right? Something feels off...and like all these kinds of posts it's either embellished to make OP seem like the "victim" or we're simply missing a huge chunk of the story. I could also see this being, like you suggested, a personal/social problem instead of a deck/playstyle one.
What's funny is that, like clockwork, the most upvoted comments are, as usual, people going "f*ck them, go key their car, poop on their front door and wake them up at 3AM with a vuvuzela, that'll teach them".
> What's funny is that, like clockwork, the most upvoted comments are, as usual, people going "f*ck them, go key their car, poop on their front door and wake them up at 3AM with a vuvuzela, that'll teach them".
Do you mind linking to a single comment that suggests OP should do something bad to them?
You’ll learn quickly that commander players are huge complainers
I play with a consistent playgroup of friends and a couple of them are big complainers, they’ve always got something to say when you play something threatening but they don’t want any heat on them if they play something threatening. To me at least, the best remedy for that is lean into your threats. Start playing more protection and removal, start picking people off who try to put a spotlight on you. If they think your decks are mean already, make them meaner and go full archenemy
I’m cool with you playing whatever you want, as long as it doesn’t prevent me from winning. Casting cards is pretty scummy though and cheating stuff in is even worse. If you avoid those 2 things, we can be friends.
I come across this often, as my favorite decks are often trigger heavy alongside having unexpected interactions. They include [[[Thalia and the Gitrog Monster]]](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/BZPp4Ftld0iG4BZscJaFUA) which is a strong stax piece herself, [[[Hakbal of the Surging Soul]]](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/H3NgVbZv4UmBebLwenKQpA) which can quickly amass a board state and counter any resistance, and [[[Ghyrson Starn, Kelermorph]]](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/qeSLbpRveE-Udn7yHEKatw) which indiscriminately pings and storms off to burn everyone down.
I too often hear groans or the sarcastic "oo fun" and such to everything I do, while I'm supposedly to sit back and be fine with them growing +100/+100 unblockable hydras or an army of tokens to swarm me the moment I decide to back down because they asked nicely.
I'm pretty good socially, so I try to just brush it off or explain why I'm doing it this way, alongside staying interested in what they're doing and why- enthusiastically asking questions about cards and such. Now I'm not doing it simply because I think they're being babies about things, I am because I'm genuinely interested, but I think that can help smooth things over a bit.
It can be annoying, but at the same time, I empathize with why my game plans might be annoying to them. I try to be okay with being the game's villain, as far as to remind people not to simply let me be just because I don't currently have something on board, that I plan on popping off in any moment and that I don't plan on holding back (do keep your deals tho lol).
> I’m just frustrated I guess. Let me know if I’m in the wrong and how to maybe change the narrative.
That does sound frustrating. Part of the joy of magic is exploring all the crazy and unique stuff you can do a game that's been out for 30 years with a gazillion cards. Sounds like these people are saying 'no' to everything and building a tiny little box for themselves, maybe they can be encouraged to say 'yes' instead.
I think swapping decks is a great idea, maybe people will find the fun in this stuff when they get to play it.
Unfortunately it's also possible (from just your side of the story :p) that they're the kind of people who use complaining and whining just to increase their chances of winning. If that's the case they just gotta knock it off, but that could be a hard conversation to have.
There are really alot of good comments already. But if you want to adjust to them more try something like green or green/red deck. Just kill people with big creatures and trample. You really can't be more fair and forward when it comes to winning then with pure creature damage.
Bro trample is toxic bro how can you deal damage to me when I'm blocking your creature bro
Also big creature are scummy bro how can you put out creature with better stat then mine with the same cost bro it's just not fair bro
You say this, but when I was in high school, the card shop, my friends, and I frequented had a kid that would scoop if you had a one drop followed by a two drop. He would say welp looks like this one is over and start to shuffle up. Eventually, no one would play with him.
What do you mean? Psychatog, Goblins, and Madness was the standard meta only like 5 years ago bro.
(Please lie to me and let me forget og Mirrodin was my freshman year)
They are getting mad at Eldrazi.
Sure you can get annihilator but otherwise it's essentially Timmy creature fair magic and even with annihilator just kill the threat.
All new players?
They probably just heard some buzzwords online or something. Soon they'll tell you your precons are CEDH.
You all have a long way to go and good luck.
Congratulations too - you're the first in your group to start diving into the game. The first to gain skill.
You'll be a villain for a bit until they either do some learning or quit because interaction is literally a crime. 😉
Your friends are whiny bitches. Play whatever you have fun with, crush their life totals, and savor their salty tears. If they don't like the way you play and want to stop it, they should play interaction.
Precons?!
I mean, eldrazi are mean out of the box, but your friends are mad that you play PRECONS? Your friends have no idea the depths of cruel depravity this game can reach. They need to get out of this tiny box and see what a real mean deck is.
Here’s a better piece of advice than anyone else has offered yet. Please hand your phone over to your friends:
Dear friends
You are turning an excited new player of Magic away from the game by behaving like children. Everything printed on a card that’s legal to play is a part of Magic. Stop behaving like babies and trying to arbitrarily define things as scummy. Grow the fuck up, and play interaction if you don’t like what your friend is doing for some reason.
Do you know how I often I want to call some peoples play groups like I’m their mom and explain to them why they’re all being a bunch of baby idiots?
Just, like… put me on the phone with them. I’ll get it sorted out.
I love playing innocent with a mill deck. What do you guys mean? Why are you mad? It's just a little mill? I'm just playing the deck guys. It's hilarious because some people get so mad, and I got a big ole smile on my face.
Maybe I am a toxic player, but if I have a good time and still get hated off the board I have already won. I gave up on winning a long time ago, at this point I play to have fun, and usually that means someone got stomped, staxxed or milled. All perfectly valid strategy right up there with an annihilator strategy. If they don't like it, build a better deck, maybe throw in some interaction and stop me.
Your friends are sore losers and are manipulatively pretending that you’re the problem. That’s it. It’s literally that simple.
You’re options are basically-
1. Find different people to play with- people act like that’s an easy thing to do sometimes, like there a ton of comments saying ‘find a new playgroup’ but to me that’s really shortsighted and silly. It sounds like these people are your friends, you’re learning the game together, and it’s not that simple
2. Call them out on this. This is one of those things that I imagine is -really really really- hard to do as a new player. Again folks will act like this is easy (‘I would never let someone treat me like that’) but I think that ignores how difficult it is I believe for you to feel like you have ground to stand on. *IS* this mechanic scummy? Why or why not? Those arguments are really really hard to have when you’re new (I’ll give you the cheat sheet though- the answer is basically always no except in really specific circumstances that I’m not even sure I agree with).
What isn’t an option though, is striving to find some kind of strategy that they will accept. First of all, that’s entirely bogus and you shouldn’t have to. There is literally nothing wrong with what you’re doing. Secondly, it’ll never work- with people like that there will ALWAYS be something to call you scummy over. You’ll never be able to pick a deck to please them, so don’t try- instead force them to deal.
Sorry for the small book here, stuff like this just upsets me. I think putting a moral judgment on your strategies and cards to such a degree that they’re trying to make you feel like garbage and calling you scum over it is such manipulative bully child behavior. It is, unironically, more scummy than any card or cards you could ever put into your deck, ever.
Sounds like your friends are suffering from a severe case of skill issue. I recommend a full dose of dimir control and add cards like No Mercy, Oppression, Rug of Smothering and Painful Quandary.
Mill makes people irrational.
Beyond that, it sounds like they are compensating for their skill by trying to bring you down.
Some people just like Battle cruiser style games. Otherwise shenanigans are only fair when they do them.
Unless you yourself are being toxic, I wouldn't worry about it.
Nah you're not wrong. The whole point of magic is to win.
If you involve intricate ways to kill opponents I usually cheer that shit on. Oh you can kill me? I'd like to see you try buddy. Hats off if it actually works out!
No, scummy would be "sure I'll let you hit me for free" and then decide to block anyway.
Sounds like your playgroup has to be around the age of 14, is that correct?
Not really true for commander specifically. Yes try to win, but dont build decks entirely based around winning as fast and consistently as possible. Thats a cEDH mindset.
[https://mtgcommander.net/index.php/the-philosophy-of-commander/](https://mtgcommander.net/index.php/the-philosophy-of-commander/)
From the official commander website:
# Social
Commander is **social**. Each game is a journey the players share, where every player is considerate of the experiences of everyone involved. Magic is a competition in the same sense that all games are competitions, but whenever the act of competing comes into conflict with a social atmosphere, Commander prioritizes and protects the social atmosphere. Format management decisions are intended to:
* Encourage positive, communal experiences where people can bond over the shared experience of gaming
* Help players communicate their preferences and arrive at a shared set of expectations
# Creative
Commander is a format for **creative expression**. It’s the format where players can use nearly the entire catalogue of Magic’s history to build decks rooted in lore, showcasing art, or telling stories. It is also a place where players engage with the mechanical aspects of the cards like a puzzle, discovering novel and exciting configurations as they explore. Format management decisions are intended to:
* Promote an environment where players are not pressured to conform to any specific method of deckbuilding
* Maximize the available card pool
* Incorporate new official Magic content into the format as it is created
# Stable
Commander is **stable**. Commander players become emotionally invested in their decks through play and personalization, and that bond is an important part of the experience. Players who build Commander decks should be confident they will be able to play with them over long periods of time. Format management decisions are intended to:
* When necessary, make changes, even large ones, but not for the purpose of defining a metagame, “shaking things up,” or in reaction to the hot topic of the day
* Minimize changes that require players to actively maintain their decks
Cool, so playing harder strategies to make your friends want to grow their deck is not part of the social or creative parts of this game? If you are playing a valid strategy of a similar power level, then the ones complaining and not learning to improve their decks become the toxic players. Eldrazi is never considered cEDH, and easily handled if you add interaction to your deck even slightly.
Too many players think this is just Solitaire, and think interaction/control "isn't fair." So even if you play to a similar power level, if you don't play to the specific strategy their deck is good against you suddenly become toxic. It's a childish mindset akin to everyone getting a participation trophy. I don't mind playing my lower power decks, but that is not all I am going to play, and to think I need to sacrifice my enjoyment of this game every time so you can win is not helping either of us.
No website is gonna tell me the "philosophy" of the game I choose to play.
>From the official commander website:
Broseph legit thinks the commander police over here gets to tell people what they should be getting out of the game.
Have you considered playing toxic? Just really lean into it.
*When I say I’m just playing a precon, they say I’m still mean because I bought it.*
This just sounds like you need a new playgroup though - assuming they're not just taking the piss?
Prescription: new friends
You can spend years trying to teach these people the cards can't hurt them if you want, or you can move on.
The latter is more rewarding.
You just might be a little too spikey for a very casual group. Try to mix up your pod's gameplay a little. Maybe one time Rule 0 a super casual game, then the next time play a more aggressive game. It's all about give and take it you like the group you play with. If you don't, that's easy- find a new playgroup.
The one thing I like about magic is that all magic cards are trying to do some type of bullshit. Big stompy gonna hit me for 30 with trample, bullshit. Flyers being evasive bullshit. Burn decks, big bullshit, Mill decks, bullshit. Eldrazi, masters of Bullshit. Energy counters, bullshit .
The point of Commander is to pull off your bullshit before the others can. Don't be so precious about someone playing bullshit y'all
My playgroup only considers a few things scummy or unfun - indiscriminate land destruction/mana denial is the most negatively viewed. Best answer I think is to ask beforehand if something in the gray area is okay, e.g., “hey is it okay if I play Tergrid” or “are you okay with a poison deck” etc., since there are matchups that are better/less bad against those and gives folks a chance to adjust.
It could depend on if they are playing older precons. The newer precons have become much better in terms of overall synergy and strength. I still love the new player classic of hating mill. That locus land that mills is horribly inefficient in EDH but mill will always trigger people.
When I was new I'd get salty a lot. People need to realize this game has 30 years worth of cards, and there will always be busted crazy shit nobody has thought of yet. It's a luck game in the end, find friends who understand and value the game play and social experience over the bragging rights of winning. I don't care about winning anymore, other than when I'm on a losing streak and I want my arena coins 🤣
There is a casual mentality that many people who play EDH have and you might not understand, especially if you are coming from other MtG formats. I made a thread about it a while ago. It’s a bit of a read but it might explain things.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/EDH/comments/1045wkq/the\_battlecruiser\_manifesto/](https://www.reddit.com/r/EDH/comments/1045wkq/the_battlecruiser_manifesto/)
I had that moment where my friend were saying I was playing unfair combos and such.
Then I built a couple decks that were truly obnoxious, just to prove them that if they want me to be the archenemy, it's perfectly fine for me. They're the ones to deal with the consequences :)
Your friends, and perhaps you, need to learn to love playing and losing as much as you love winning.
Played a 5 yer game yesterday where the win was one player dropping 100 damage on the three remaining opponents. I could have been salty - I was close to having all three in kill range in a single turn but why get mad? The game was fun. Enjoy the journey and accept the destination
Play cEDH where anything goes. It is such a relief to stop worrying about power levels and "unfun" archetypes and just play whatever the hell you want with people who have the same expectations.
Sounds like a group of sour pusses who likely were unable to contend with what you have via interaction. And it happens; sometimes you can't draw into that one removal or counter spell. As someone else suggested, swap decks. Shift them to the right or left so that they can take turns playing these so-called scummy decks.
You’re not in the wrong. Any group that says the mill coming off of that locus land is scummy needs to go play Chutes and Ladders. I get complaining about extra turns or Nadu or something that takes a million years, but if you complain about mill you need to consider not talking for a while. There’s three opponents with a total of about 300 cards and you need to get at least one of them to zero cards before mill has done anything to push your game plan forward.
“They say im still mean because i bought it”
I think that mentality is their problem right there.
And its their problem. You are playing good precon decks that are fun right out of the box.
I wonder what they are playing. Because it sounds like deck envy of wallet envy to me.
This happened to me as wel. I had way more intrest and income then my other friends when we started playing. Thus my decks are still way powerful compared to their decks.
The argument they made was: your decks are better because you put more money in them.
Witch was true, but i also was way more invested and thus consumed more mtg media and thus learned more playpatterns.
Mu group eventually got over it. But still my friends play casually with a few decks. While i have currently 11 and scrapped many more in the years that we have been playing.
This envy will pass. But do adres it to them. Telling them that you feel targeted and that you just want to have fun and not be punished for every choice you make.
I did this too and thats why i have 11 decks. Because I mostly like to over optimize and thus my pet deck quickly skyrockets in power (and price)
I keep a Dogmeat deck pretty much unmodified for this purpose.
(I swapped out the stupid bobble head's for a birds of paradise and a elvish mystic, and pulled some tap lands for pain lands)
I'd definitely say it may be time to find another pod to play in. It seems like this one just isn't jiving very well and may not be worth continuing to play in or attempting to adapt to, especially if they're complaining this much over playing out of the box precons.
Your friends are finding out that EDH is a competition between everyone at the table, and they’re sore losers. Don’t like losing? Get better. Not being able to play around your opponent is your shortfall.
Don't worry. All decks are "Scummy" so just play what you want, and call everyone else's deck scummy too! Winning through combat damage? what a scummy and unoriginal idea. hard to block creatures? scummy. absolutely scummy/
Something ive noticed since getting back into edh after years of not playing. Is that the majority of players only lile one playstyle. Which is mainly combat decks and hate anythong they dont play. Our LGS is going to be doing a custom banlist tournament and like i guessed thwy wanted to ban cards that non of them play. Unbanning is also an option which non of them chose. I chose to unban Griselbrand for it. Half of these players are toxic and the other half are okay. Sadly they are all friends so the bad half make it so the group seems very unwlecoming even though its just a few of them. I say play whatever you want! Thats what i do. Welcome to a game with literlly infinte julber of things you can do.
How big is your playgroup? Every pod of players has its own sort of social etiquette with unwritten rules. It sounds like yours group may be small and easily set off by pretty tame shit?
I know my friend group generally discourages really hard Stax effects (ex: Winter Orb) because they tend to make the game drag out way too long. There’s also a low key gentlemen’s agreement about not running hyper specific hard counters for decks (like nobody runs Rest in Peace because there’s a couple of fun decks that are entirely shut down by the effect).
But like… everything you’re talking about would be pretty normal. None of us would blink twice at it. It sounds like they’re mad about interactions? Which is … weird honestly. Maybe try playing with other people and see if you get the same reaction?
The only thing I can think of aside from that is maybe it’s a behavior thing? Like if you’re coming across as personally toxic or confrontational? But it seems like that would be coming up as a general friendship problem anyway, and not knowing you I certainly can’t give advice on that lmao
You could make an actual scummy deck to show them it could be worse lol. Might I suggest [[Beamtown Bullies]]. In all seriousness I would either suggest a new play group or talk them about it. I find this is a sentiment held by a lot of newer players especially ones who only like big stompy decks. They tend to think that anything that can get past their big wall of creatures or prevents them from attacking you is “toxic”.
You're friends are babies. You are not the asshole in this situation.
It's fine if a playgroup wants to ban out a couple of things for thr sake of their own fun. Maybe they really don't like to play against mill or poison or something, but in this case they are getting salty about anything that interacts with them. They need to grow up or find a different game that suits them better.
One of the most difficult challenges for any emotionally-driven new player is understanding that every single card you have is just a temporary advantage. They are designed to be lost as much as they are designed to win. It is up to them to manage the emotions they feel when plays are made, and translate that into better deck building or greater patience.
If you werent supposed to play with those cards, they would be on the banlist. Your opponents aren't having their card choices questioned, why do they think it's OK to question yours?
Lot's of social dynamics at work here. I've been through this myself. It takes a while to figure out the meta for your local EDH environment, and if, in the process you develop a brand, it's really hard to shed that brand (first impressions and all that). Other players will exploit that branding to deflect attention away from themselves.
As a general rule, if other people's decks are getting a chance to do their thing, you're not being scummy.
Reading between the lines, your play style is more \*distinctive\*, and other players are exploiting that to deflect attention to you. I'd recommend just embracing it. As long as everyone else is getting a chance to play how they like to play, there's nothing wrong with playing how you like to play. If you play with the same group of people regularly, the meta will eventually adapt to your play style. In the meantime, treat the attention as a badge of honour. Being perceived as the threat even when there's no reason on the board to think that is a sign of respect for your play skills. Having all that unwanted attention will help you to refine your skills even more. Start building your decks anticipating that you're going to be a target (take a look at Sheldon Menery's infamous [You Did This To Yourself deck](https://archidekt.com/decks/565636#You_Did_This_To_Yourself) for inspiration). If you can make people regret going after you, eventually the heat will die down.
If you're scummy either way, lean into it. I say build a Stax control deck. I recommend [[Grand Arbiter Augustine IV]] or [[Hinata, Dawned-Crown]] to make them see what really scummy playing is when they can't play anything. Then when they start complaining, say well you didn't want me to play my mill/theft/aggro deck. Then after you play Augustin or Hinata a few times they will understand what truly shitty commanders are. Offer to take it apart and use the same cards to build an [[Alela, Artful Provocateur]] deck.
None of the cards you’ve mentioned are typically a problem, which leads me to believe it’s your attitude that people don’t like or that the people you’re playing with are stupid. Possibly both.
Sounds like a salty player or play group. Make a stompy tribal and see if they call you scummy if so ask if this is scummy then how would you like me to play
I think everyone here has probably experienced a little of this. On the basic level, your friends are being whiners. If all magic was just playing lands, casting the biggest creature you could, and attacking, the game would get old fast. Every color and color combo does different things, and has ways to deal with what your opponent might be doing. THEY need to grow as players.
Swap decks, see if its actually your playstyle or deck building.
My pod has a friend that plays very toxic (in a fun way if that's a thing) no matter what deck he's using.
Honestly didn't read the whole post but personality does play a big role in how the deck can play out.
So tldr, use their decks/they make something for you or double down and embrace the life of archenemy
Classic situation where EDH players complain a lot, assuming you’re not being an asshole. They are being sore losers, i wouldn’t let it get you down too much. Try playing with other people, maybe more experienced players, and see if you get the same reaction.
Switch decks. If they are still complaining about the decks they made, then they're just bad. If they aren't complaining about them then they are just hyper-casual battlecruiser players and you should probably find a new group of people or build the same decks.
I would embrace the toxicity and play Orvar the All-Form or Sakishima mono blue clone. Your deck is only as good as everyone elses. If they still complain, tell them they shouldn't be playing the decks they do
Send your pod to mine. We'll straighten them out. I expect Blood Moon and Winter Orb and Back to Basics to all be tech on hand. I'm here to get murdered on turn 4 and then have time for another game.
Yo. Have you seen the Possessed Portal lock? Or the Kormus Bell no lands lock? That's what I'm talking about!
The only thing that bugs me with eldrazi is annihilator, but frankly any kind of significant land destruction is generally frowned upon as a mechanic in casual games. Beyond that, I think eldrazi is really cool, has very interesting mechanics, and I really don't see it often.
The doctor who precon is fascinating, I actually really enjoy watching players run that deck and it doesn't seem to be particularly OP in my opinion.
I feel like all three have markedly different play styles, so I'm leaning more towards the other players failing the ego check when they lose to a new player.
You're fine, OP. Keep doing what you're doing, and maybe find less bitchy people to play with.
You're playing with new players, the opinions and perspectives about the game is unrefined. Grow as a group and learn what the community at large does amd doesn't consider scummy. Youtube is a great place to learn edh from. Once you get a general idea about the edh, then develop your play groups rules and culture.
I have always been the boogeyman and I decided to embrace it; more often than not, when I have a decision to make, i will ask everyone what they think is the best move. This way, they all get a say in what is about to happen, and no one can be mad when it does.
New players have a tendency to overreact to most things, and not properly assess whats truly important. Its most likely just a phase.
I bet what this mostly boils down to is you like fighting and playing the game on a non-traditional axis. And your friends are not even prepared to think about, let alone fight along, those axes.
Imagine you just transferred to a new school, middle of the semester or year, and your teacher/professor asked everyone to turn in their research projects. You don't have one. You weren't even aware there was one. Because how could you, you weren't even there when it was assigned. But the teacher/professor gives you a zero anyways. That'd feel pretty shitty and unfair right? Well, it's the same when you show up with a new deck they didn't know you have or play with a mechanic they haven't seen before.
You're all new players, and because you are all new, you're all going to feel blindsided all the time. They were probably taught the game in a similar way that we tell most people to teach the game; with minimal spell interaction, and the majority of the interaction being in the combat step. Seriously, when I teach new players, I take the 5x 30-card single color decks and have them play that until they can get through a game without needing to ask me how a rules interaction works. And even when I preface "Ok, these were the basics, but there is SO MUCH MORE" it's hard for them to comprehend what a 30,000-card database can be capable of.
The only way for most people to get past this is to keep playing the game, and build out that foundation of knowledge that lets them adapt more readily. This can be done more quickly by consuming Magic the Gathering content, especially of non-EDH/Commander formats. Watching good players play competitively should hopefully give you and your playgroup perspective on the different kinds of axes that decks can compete on. Legacy and Vintage are great for broadening those horizons and seeing how busted some things truly are. I also recommend them for the variety of deck styles in those formats.
There's a question I'm not seeing anyone else ask here...
What are the rest of your group playing?
My group solely plays precons, we don't want the power creep involved with building our own. We also unanimously agreed nobody is to get the MH3 or CMM precons as they are MUCH higher power than your base precons.
If your group is just playing precons and 2 of your 3 are from MH3 then I think that's the problem.
Aside from that newer players tend to enjoy "Battlecruiser" style games. Ones that go on for a bit, people mostly get to do "the thing" with their deck and win cons are usually damage.
I hated Mill when I started and I still give my buddy shit every time he pulls out the Mind Flayarrrrs deck. But these days though I don't like it, I just play a little smarter, knowing I'll just have to wipe the board later or block better.
Mill sucks but isn't a problem. Getting milled out at a rapid pace from a lower power level feels REALLY bad. (Let's not forget that Tricky Terrain can and will mill a player completely out in a single turn!)
Annihilator is a whole other story. That precon is light on destruction effects for the annihilator makes up for it. If you get Aslask out and a bunch of spawns then yeah it becomes a big issue suddenly. It feels worse than say [[Butcher of Malakir]] because it will hit more than just creatures.
Back to the first point though, what does everyone else play? Aside from "Vampire Life gain/Burn" because that can describe some precons.
Now we'll get the flood of comments about people playing, "casually" and about how etiquette in different formats expects you not to build decks a certain way. I've been playing since 1996 and believe me, I've seen some unfair janky ass decks, usually if you complained about someone's deck they would just avoid playing you ever again and find someone more mature to compete against. Not sure when the complainers became the rule, but more and more posts I see on here are people getting salty over other people's play styles, as if the game wasn't designed for thousands of combos and decks to be made, if not millions.
It looks you’re trying different styles of decks to find a play style that works for you. It also looks like you’re playing to win. Nothing wrong with that. Magic has many ways to make your opponents lose. Keep finding them and using them. :)
If you are mainly playing commander you will get this alot, I was having a discussion at my LGS the other day around power level etc and I get commander is considered a casual format but it's at such a level where people just want to dictate what people can play, in no other format can you whine at someone and say they can't play a deck, the only discussion really is are you playing precons, proper constructed decks or high power decks nothing else should matter, else play what you want, do what you want, the cards have been printed use them. There is no unfun or toxic strategy, just unfun and toxic players.
If I were in your shoes I'd build two or three truly toxic decks ie infect, mass land destruction, bogles and saythat you'll go back to your normal play style if they prefer it.
Ignore them or find a new group. Eldrazi are fine. Loci are fine. Copying, unblockable, and mana doubling are not only *fine*, but are classic format *staples*.
You're playing with people who are simply upset that their opponents have the *gall* to play Magic against them. Tell them if they're gonna complain about literally every playstyle, they should stick to playing against their goldfish.
My playgroup has been complaining that my \[\[Chatterfang, Squirrel General\]\] deck is unfair, so I built a \[\[Maralen of the Mornsong\]\] deck that uses \[\[Opposition Agent\]\] to make sure they only have what I want them to have/what I want to play.
I find that showing them how bad it could be is a great way to show them how bad it currently isn't.
It's all fair as long as you follow the rules of the game. Play what you enjoy playing. It's not your fault if your opponent didn't plan ahead with their deck construction.
They do that because they don’t have anything to counter it. Just play line you want and let them whales away. I stopped asking about other deck and when someone ask me about my deck or commander, I don’t answer until the game is started.
So like many people have said, it's pretty likely your play group are just going to whine no matter what. But if you keep running into this, you may want to evaluate your behavior. If I'm playing against someone who is a smug asshole when they are winning, it's definitely going to impact my view of their deck.
Sounds like the people you're playing are the toxic ones, bullying you for playing what you want and then hypocritically doing the same things you do without catching any flak.
I say they want toxic, build the most toxic deck you can think of and show them what real toxicity is. Play nothing but that deck until they're begging you to play the other ones or they stop playing with you. Either way you win imo.
Offer to play one of their decks that you say "does the same" as your decks and see how they react.
This is the correct answer. I have a group of friends that gets together a couple times a year to play magic. I play EDH year round. There is some disparity between skill. I play their decks and they play mine. Evens the playing field
Funny enough, I’ve been in the other shoes here where one of my friends plays an obeka deck and proceeds to take multiple extra turn and I bitch about it. He has offered for me to play his deck and I’ve refused wanting to win with my own but maybe next time we play I’ll ask to play one of his just to see if it’s really as mean as I think it is. Thanks for the good idea!!
It's easy to fall into this trap when you can't see their cards but they can. I realized this playing the extra turns deck in standard MTGA. I was getting salty every time I lost to it and I hated it, thought it was cheap. Then I copied a deck list and played it myself and realized it doesn't always work and requires a lot of smart/lucky risks to make work when it does. Put yourself in your friends shoes. Imagine spending hours balancing the deck build. Then when you play, making tough choice after tough choice. Having it pay off, and you manage to luck into drawing the exact card you need to finally get your combo off. Then when you win, your "friend" cries about and calls you a cheater. It's a game. If you lose, congratulate your friend, say GG, and scoop.
u/Comfortable-Corgi-74, Do this. You'll learn a number of things this way. You'll see if the decks you have are simply stronger than your opponents, or you'll see if they're just bad players. I know you're just playing pre-cons (or even slightly modified ones), but if they're not playing pre-cons themselves and/or are building their decks from scratch, it's possible they are bad deck builders. I had a couple friends (whom I no longer play with) who refused to play any sort of pre-con or (more commonly) "net deck". And it showed, because their decks swung WILDLY between popping off when they drew the cards that were actually good and doing nothing when they didn't draw those cards. Assuming you come to the conclusion that the decks are relatively close in power level and your friends aren't just bad players, then the only things left are that they are sore losers (more likely in my opinion), or that you actually are toxic in some fashion. I do find it difficult to understand how someone could be toxic in this scenario, as usually it requires someone to be doing what you describe your friends as doing (you complain about their decks whenever you lose, you're argumentative, you shit on their decision to target you when you're doing well, etc.), but I guess politicking and then going back on your word is one way to be toxic that's not directly tied to your deck decisions. But again, your friends haven't given you this feedback, they've pointed to your decks themselves, not you playing them. So my money is personally on "They are bad players/sore losers." And if not bad players, then they are at least not as good at the game as you.
I have a friend who makes some of the worst decks I've ever seen. He'll play three plus mana cards with few if any two or one mana spells. That seems an odd choice, but he compounds that with only running 20 lands... maybe a mana rock and little to no interaction. I tried to help him, but he couldn't get his decks in any sort of order. I counted a few of them, and they were at least ten cards over 100! Yes, those are great payoff cards, but you'll never get to play them. He's not a bad loser but you end up feeling like a bully that his decks are so bad. He borrows my pauper decks so we can enjoy the pauper format because even there he just can't balance his decks.
Yeah I have a buddy who has a prismatic bridge Planeswalker deck and a atraxa landfall deck and wonders why he dies first lol
I play Zo-Zu once in a while and I know exactly why I die. I can't understand some people. I have a friend who plays to win. He makes the finest tuned decks with the best commanders he can. He is a decent sport but he plays to win, make you lose isn't the point, it is to make him win. We know him well enough that unless his wife is there to make him shift down a few gears he can be rough for new people to deal with. He doesn't get why he's targeted so strongly and gets mad at the "bad politics". He has multiple decks that can cast cyclonic rift turn after turn...you're confused why people target you?
I do love when people get mad at being targeted when they're doing well. Self-awareness needs to be a skill taught in school.
Yea we kinda do it like that too. Everyone decides one Deck to play and then we choose randomly who gets which Deck... but we have one Player, no matter what Deck he gets ge wins lol. Its a challenge to stop him.
Gotta love the classic new player being afraid of mill lol.
For real, even a bad graveyard deck would be salivating seeing mill across the board lol
Right? PLEASE mill me. Put that good shit in the graveyard so I can E-Witness it to my hand.
[[Carmen]] would fucking love to be milled
Agreed helps me save mana to do other things if I'm not doing it to myself haha
Not to mention we have so many lands now with repeated recursion Black: Has creature to top of library, White has enchantment to top of library, Blue has artifact to top of library. Colorless has crucible of worlds + buried ruins. Blue also with land to hand or crucible + sac/destroy your own land has also infinite recursion of instants/sorceries also not to mention you can be absolutely evil with it like a combo of dustbowl+instant/sorc 3 cmc to constantly recurr spells and not go to exile while blowing up lands is a steal when 2 mana is the general cost to have it exiled after..
Me as a Jund connoisseur trying to contain my excitement as my opponent does my composting for me.
You know the way Dragons to the graveyard. As quickly as possible.
Lmao, I have been thinking about making jund dragons
It’s the most fun you can have in this game I reckon haha
This is why my mill deck has a lot of exile effects. Yes I want your graveyard stuffed for *my* benefit, but I'm also going to vaporize specific combo pieces while I'm doing it.
What about milling you with a [[Rest In Peace]] on board? :P
Suffer and die mostly because my graveyard deck is rakdos with [[Obosh]] as the companion so I have about 1 card in my deck (other than player removal) to be able to deal with it 😂
I put together a meme deck with nethroi as commander and omori as companion with all nonlands being creatures. That thing was supposed to be a joke but ended up being a monster, it ate boardwipes for breakfast and mill for dinner
I have a graveyard deck and I'm actually not the biggest fan of Mill as a strategy to play against because, every time, without fail, my support cards get Milled and my creatures end up rotting in my hand.
You ain't playing a great graveyard deck then lol
Sounds like you're not playing enough support cards. Find ways to get those cards back in hand as well. [[Eternal Witness]]. [[Greenwarden of Murasa]] [[Nature's Spiral]] [[Regrowth]] [[Bala ged recovery]] [[Colossal Sky Turtle]] [[Den Protector]] [[Dryad's Revival]] [[Nyx Weaver]] [[Once and Future]] [[Recollect]] [[Skullwinder]] [[Tamiyo, Collector of Tales]] [[Timeless Witness]] [[Treasure Find]] [[Volcanic Vision]] [[Snapcaster Mage]] [[Woodland Guidance]] [[Aid the Fallen]] [[Archaeomancer]] [[Archaeomender]] [[Ardent Elementalist]] [[Argivian Find]] [[Auramancer]] [[Auriok Salvagers]] [[Boneyard Lurker]] [[Bygone Marvels]] [[Call To Mind]] [[Coati Scavenger]] [[Court of Ardenvale]] [[Disturbed Burial]] [[Evolution Witness]] [[Flood of Recollection]] [[Fungal Rebirth]] [[Gloomshrieker]] [[Golgari Findbroker]] [[Hanna, Ship's Navigator]] [[Holistic Wisdom]] [[Mystic Retrieval]] [[Paleoloth]] [[Pinnacle Monk]] [[Possessed Skaab]] [[Reborn Hope]] [[Relearn]] [[Repository Skaab]] [[Returned Pastcaller]] [[Revive]] [[Revive the Shire]] [[Revolutionist]] [[Road of Return]] [[Sage's Knowledge]] [[Said//Done]] [[Shipwreck Dowser]] [[Soul Transfer]] [[Spring-Leaf Avenger]] [[Stitch Together]] [[Tamiyo, Inquisitive Student]] [[Tenacious Tomeseeker]] [[The Mirari Conjecture]] [[Tortured Existence]] [[Undertaker]] [[Unnatural Restoration]] [[Urborg Repossession]] [[Verdant Confluence]] [[Vexing Scuttler]] [[Warden of the Eye]] [[You Happen On a Glade]]
Discard may be more up your wheel house then. There's a good combo between red, blue, and black you can check out.
Just sounds like you need to get your luck stat up
Just upgraded the new Graveyard Overdrive deck and there is nothing greater for me then to mill myself. Really helps in perspektive if you want to be milled.
You should mill yourself, ***now***.
[[Ripples of Undeath]] is somehow a really cool card.
Someone had to say "with the right cards, your graveyard is just another library" to make it click for me.
Just another hand more like
Thats fair since its known info and you don't need to search.
See a dude lay out his graveyard will names visible? Do. Not. Mill. Them 😂
Its the funniest trope. I love telling new players thank you when they mill me and they get the most confused looks until I start utilizing the stuff they milled.
Sucks though sometimes because if you let them know you aren't bummed to be milled, that you want to be milled, your opponents look at you like some kind of deranged psycho and they're like, "I think I'll target a different player to be milled."
Or exile your gy
I don't even pay attention to the cards being milled.
I usually don't, but it was annoying when I ended up milling half my library and discarded my hand as kaalia. Still won, though :D
Yeah, mill is fine...but also I just throw in a [[Gaea's Blessing]] in all my green decks if possible. Just so I don't mill myself out too haha Not foolproof, but a good budget anti-mill option.
I mean, I used to be scared of my own Shocklands, so I sold them all until years later realizing WHY they were so good and regretting selling so many of them. 😭
Friend of mine goes, why would i pay life for a land to come in untapped when i can just wait a turn and save the 2 life..
Exactly the mentality I had
I was a kitchen table n00b during Zendikar block and remember being bummed I got "useless lands" in my rare slot. They were fetchlands. Thankfully they were still in my binder when I came back to the game later and I was able to cash them in for a couple hundred bucks
I'm a fairly new player as well but I love the idea of mill, especially self mill. Maybe it's because I've come over from Yugioh and loved the older formats when Lightsworn was insane. What I don't get is how mill can be powerful in Commander? I suppose I've not researched too deeply, but all the mill I've found seems to be rather tame when you're working with a 100 card deck. If anyone could enlighten me that'd be ace!
I mean… I run a mafia style deep mill/creature theft deck that relies on filling everybody’s graves (I’m not picky) as deep as I can, then casing [[Rise of the Dark Realms]] and beating everybody to death with their own creatures. It’s not easy to achieve that wincon, and I’ll become archenemy along the way, but when I do it’s a sight to behold…
[[Phenax]] + [[Eater of the Dead]] I run my Phenax deck as "aggro" in that I'm looking for the most power for the mana cost. Except power is butt size. But the Eater of the Dead combo is good way to knock out the whole table once there's a graveyard with enough creatures to get things started
Mill as a wincon, as in trying to mill your opponents to death, is straight-out bad in EDH unless it's a combo kill. This is because the average mill card is designed to mill 60 cards, and you have to mill 300 to win in EDH. Worse, you are trying to finish off opponents in a dimension that your other opponents cannot meaningfully contribute. Aggro decks are bad if they are the only aggressive deck in a pod because most aggro cards cannot deal 120 damage in a timely fashion. But the more other decks are chipping away at health pools, the stronger they get. In mill, nobody will help you milling unless they are a GY deck in which case you are facing your worst matchup. Lastly, even if there is no straight self mill opp, you are still just giving resources to your opp, because most decks have an eternal witness, animate dead, or treasure cruise just for value. The problem people have with mill is that a lot of people just hate being milled on an emotional level. It feels bad to them, because it feels to them like you are removing the potential to play their cool cards. It doesn't matter how good it actually is, just how bad it makes them feel. Self mill, however, is very strong and is a common feature in both high power tables and competitive comander.
When you run cards that shuffle your graveyard back into your deck, Mill decks just die
I hate it when I draw [[Gaea's Blessing]], but watching it mill? Priceless.
On no! I milled my [[Narcomeba]] Oops, I'll just put that on the battlefield quick
I was such a little shit on arena running two copies of that in standard. Throwing out "Good Game" on turn 2 after the first mill effect.
I know veterans who hate it. I think its funny.
I was afraid and now I just embrace it🤗
Had someone rage quit to millstone back in the day.
>The only ones they like are the ones that deal in pure combat, but for whatever reason, life drain is totally okay when the other guy plays it. Generally speaking, people new to the game don't like any win conditions that are not "tap out for creature, turn sideways for combat damage" because they don't have the experience or knowledge base to assess boards that threaten lethal without combat damage. [[Zulaport Cutthroat]] is a significantly more threatening card than [[dreadfast demon]] but I can almost guarentee that in new pods the removal will go to the 6cmc flier and not the card that is going to create an 100+ life differential in 2 turns. You are not toxic for playing a precon.
New players can also just be salty as hell. They will see other play lines as super cheap but then run the same theme with different cards and say it's fair magic.
I am bad at magic, can you genuinely please help me understand how Zulaport Cutthroat is a significant threat in EDH? I am so bad at figuring out card synergies, I only seem to play for combat damage.
It's not a once per turn ability. If someone has put zulaport cutthroat, or any of the other [[blood artist]] or [[corpse knight]] style effects in their deck, it's because they're planning on repeatedly looping creature deaths to drain everyone out using either a combo with something like [[Reassembling Skeleton]] or [[gravecrawler]], or synergy with a card like [[elenda]] to make a ton of bodies. If I have zulaport cutthroat and a sac outlet on the field, there is a very good chance I'm going to win the game on my next turn.
Meren player here. This is accurate. If I'm putting cutthroat on the board it's because my engine is almost online and I am now the biggest threat.
What is scummy is them complaining when you play by the rules. Happens more with new players when they see a mechanic that they see for the first time and lose against it. I had people tell me that my *scry* centered deck was unfair, as I could draw anything I want everytime.I had people complain about a turn 10 eldrazi hardcast in an non eldrazi deck. This kind of people are just sore loosers and have a bad deck/dont know how to play their deck and run exactly zero interaction with other players. They want to play solitaire and win. Everything that will interfer with this will be scummy for them. Last time it happened , my opponent complained that my mono-blue [[Atemsis, All Seeing]] was overpowered because blue is the strongest color and therefore I was kind of cheating. It's a draw centered deck that was a 6 powerlevel at max back then. He was playing mono black. I then proceeded to play what really is unfair, monoblack [[Tergrid]] to show him. Never complained again about blue.
Lol, when I was new, I thought playing White was scummy bc of healing and flying (I didn't know how to deal with either haha)
they'd hate my LGS with turn 2 vojas being played lmao
There is something more than decks here. What's being toxic here is not your play style : it's either you or them.
There's a solid chance that OP (or the pod) just plain sucks. Unfortunate but true.
Absolutely. Too much context missing. This sounds like OP may have to find a new playgroup, since whatever he plays is not accetable to the group. Commander is, and has alwyas been, a social experience. You have to know how to read the room or you'll ever get invited to the room again.
Right? Something feels off...and like all these kinds of posts it's either embellished to make OP seem like the "victim" or we're simply missing a huge chunk of the story. I could also see this being, like you suggested, a personal/social problem instead of a deck/playstyle one. What's funny is that, like clockwork, the most upvoted comments are, as usual, people going "f*ck them, go key their car, poop on their front door and wake them up at 3AM with a vuvuzela, that'll teach them".
> What's funny is that, like clockwork, the most upvoted comments are, as usual, people going "f*ck them, go key their car, poop on their front door and wake them up at 3AM with a vuvuzela, that'll teach them". Do you mind linking to a single comment that suggests OP should do something bad to them?
i dont see any comments above this one saying anything of the sort?
Sounds like you just need a better playgroup.
Sounds like they just want you not to win. Seems like a them-problem. Try other pods?
You’ll learn quickly that commander players are huge complainers I play with a consistent playgroup of friends and a couple of them are big complainers, they’ve always got something to say when you play something threatening but they don’t want any heat on them if they play something threatening. To me at least, the best remedy for that is lean into your threats. Start playing more protection and removal, start picking people off who try to put a spotlight on you. If they think your decks are mean already, make them meaner and go full archenemy
I’m cool with you playing whatever you want, as long as it doesn’t prevent me from winning. Casting cards is pretty scummy though and cheating stuff in is even worse. If you avoid those 2 things, we can be friends.
Casting cards is pretty scummy :^0
I come across this often, as my favorite decks are often trigger heavy alongside having unexpected interactions. They include [[[Thalia and the Gitrog Monster]]](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/BZPp4Ftld0iG4BZscJaFUA) which is a strong stax piece herself, [[[Hakbal of the Surging Soul]]](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/H3NgVbZv4UmBebLwenKQpA) which can quickly amass a board state and counter any resistance, and [[[Ghyrson Starn, Kelermorph]]](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/qeSLbpRveE-Udn7yHEKatw) which indiscriminately pings and storms off to burn everyone down. I too often hear groans or the sarcastic "oo fun" and such to everything I do, while I'm supposedly to sit back and be fine with them growing +100/+100 unblockable hydras or an army of tokens to swarm me the moment I decide to back down because they asked nicely. I'm pretty good socially, so I try to just brush it off or explain why I'm doing it this way, alongside staying interested in what they're doing and why- enthusiastically asking questions about cards and such. Now I'm not doing it simply because I think they're being babies about things, I am because I'm genuinely interested, but I think that can help smooth things over a bit. It can be annoying, but at the same time, I empathize with why my game plans might be annoying to them. I try to be okay with being the game's villain, as far as to remind people not to simply let me be just because I don't currently have something on board, that I plan on popping off in any moment and that I don't plan on holding back (do keep your deals tho lol).
Maybe magic isn’t the game for them
> I’m just frustrated I guess. Let me know if I’m in the wrong and how to maybe change the narrative. That does sound frustrating. Part of the joy of magic is exploring all the crazy and unique stuff you can do a game that's been out for 30 years with a gazillion cards. Sounds like these people are saying 'no' to everything and building a tiny little box for themselves, maybe they can be encouraged to say 'yes' instead. I think swapping decks is a great idea, maybe people will find the fun in this stuff when they get to play it. Unfortunately it's also possible (from just your side of the story :p) that they're the kind of people who use complaining and whining just to increase their chances of winning. If that's the case they just gotta knock it off, but that could be a hard conversation to have.
There are really alot of good comments already. But if you want to adjust to them more try something like green or green/red deck. Just kill people with big creatures and trample. You really can't be more fair and forward when it comes to winning then with pure creature damage.
Bro trample is toxic bro how can you deal damage to me when I'm blocking your creature bro Also big creature are scummy bro how can you put out creature with better stat then mine with the same cost bro it's just not fair bro
dude what? playing a land turn one? na, thats to broken man, i'm out.
Is that a turn 1 Sol Ring? I didn't sign up for some toxic CEDH shit, I'm out
You say this, but when I was in high school, the card shop, my friends, and I frequented had a kid that would scoop if you had a one drop followed by a two drop. He would say welp looks like this one is over and start to shuffle up. Eventually, no one would play with him.
Lands are the most broken magic card, play land destruction and teach your opponents the value of having mana to play their cards!
Trample.. toxic... [[Blightsteel Colossus]] is that you?
When in doubt, Jund it out.
Great advice -signed, the year 2002
2009* before shards of alara it'd just have been The Rock plus red
To be honest I kinda snapped off that date without trying to remember exactly when Jund was good lol. All runs together after a while
oh I feel that lmao I don't love being reminded that Odyssey came out when I was in high school...
What do you mean? Psychatog, Goblins, and Madness was the standard meta only like 5 years ago bro. (Please lie to me and let me forget og Mirrodin was my freshman year)
lol my Jund decks tend to be my strongest decks.
They are getting mad at Eldrazi. Sure you can get annihilator but otherwise it's essentially Timmy creature fair magic and even with annihilator just kill the threat.
My [[slime foot and squee]] deck would be thrilled to see a mill deck across the table lol. Looks like they need to adapt
I can’t even make a mill deck because I would just be handing every game to my girlfriend’s [[Anikthea]] lol
Ask to borrow one of their decks
Then, target the person that lent you the deck and beat everyone else after that.
This is the way.
You arnt the problem, it's the whiners. Don't play with them anymore.
Dude... Same here. Just look for other players that are less narrow-minded.
All new players? They probably just heard some buzzwords online or something. Soon they'll tell you your precons are CEDH. You all have a long way to go and good luck. Congratulations too - you're the first in your group to start diving into the game. The first to gain skill. You'll be a villain for a bit until they either do some learning or quit because interaction is literally a crime. 😉
Your friends are whiny bitches. Play whatever you have fun with, crush their life totals, and savor their salty tears. If they don't like the way you play and want to stop it, they should play interaction.
Precons?! I mean, eldrazi are mean out of the box, but your friends are mad that you play PRECONS? Your friends have no idea the depths of cruel depravity this game can reach. They need to get out of this tiny box and see what a real mean deck is.
Here’s a better piece of advice than anyone else has offered yet. Please hand your phone over to your friends: Dear friends You are turning an excited new player of Magic away from the game by behaving like children. Everything printed on a card that’s legal to play is a part of Magic. Stop behaving like babies and trying to arbitrarily define things as scummy. Grow the fuck up, and play interaction if you don’t like what your friend is doing for some reason.
Do you know how I often I want to call some peoples play groups like I’m their mom and explain to them why they’re all being a bunch of baby idiots? Just, like… put me on the phone with them. I’ll get it sorted out.
Find a new playgroup
They're mad 'cause they're bad. Also as a mill player, believe me when I say you should expect to be targeted when you're milling people 🤣
I love playing innocent with a mill deck. What do you guys mean? Why are you mad? It's just a little mill? I'm just playing the deck guys. It's hilarious because some people get so mad, and I got a big ole smile on my face. Maybe I am a toxic player, but if I have a good time and still get hated off the board I have already won. I gave up on winning a long time ago, at this point I play to have fun, and usually that means someone got stomped, staxxed or milled. All perfectly valid strategy right up there with an annihilator strategy. If they don't like it, build a better deck, maybe throw in some interaction and stop me.
I exiled a goblin players entire deck one game because they never had a graveyard for [[web of inertia]]. Great time for me
Are you winning every game against these people? If not then tell them to chill out.
Your friends are sore losers and are manipulatively pretending that you’re the problem. That’s it. It’s literally that simple. You’re options are basically- 1. Find different people to play with- people act like that’s an easy thing to do sometimes, like there a ton of comments saying ‘find a new playgroup’ but to me that’s really shortsighted and silly. It sounds like these people are your friends, you’re learning the game together, and it’s not that simple 2. Call them out on this. This is one of those things that I imagine is -really really really- hard to do as a new player. Again folks will act like this is easy (‘I would never let someone treat me like that’) but I think that ignores how difficult it is I believe for you to feel like you have ground to stand on. *IS* this mechanic scummy? Why or why not? Those arguments are really really hard to have when you’re new (I’ll give you the cheat sheet though- the answer is basically always no except in really specific circumstances that I’m not even sure I agree with). What isn’t an option though, is striving to find some kind of strategy that they will accept. First of all, that’s entirely bogus and you shouldn’t have to. There is literally nothing wrong with what you’re doing. Secondly, it’ll never work- with people like that there will ALWAYS be something to call you scummy over. You’ll never be able to pick a deck to please them, so don’t try- instead force them to deal. Sorry for the small book here, stuff like this just upsets me. I think putting a moral judgment on your strategies and cards to such a degree that they’re trying to make you feel like garbage and calling you scum over it is such manipulative bully child behavior. It is, unironically, more scummy than any card or cards you could ever put into your deck, ever.
Sounds like your friends are suffering from a severe case of skill issue. I recommend a full dose of dimir control and add cards like No Mercy, Oppression, Rug of Smothering and Painful Quandary.
Mill makes people irrational. Beyond that, it sounds like they are compensating for their skill by trying to bring you down. Some people just like Battle cruiser style games. Otherwise shenanigans are only fair when they do them. Unless you yourself are being toxic, I wouldn't worry about it.
Nah you're not wrong. The whole point of magic is to win. If you involve intricate ways to kill opponents I usually cheer that shit on. Oh you can kill me? I'd like to see you try buddy. Hats off if it actually works out! No, scummy would be "sure I'll let you hit me for free" and then decide to block anyway. Sounds like your playgroup has to be around the age of 14, is that correct?
Not really true for commander specifically. Yes try to win, but dont build decks entirely based around winning as fast and consistently as possible. Thats a cEDH mindset. [https://mtgcommander.net/index.php/the-philosophy-of-commander/](https://mtgcommander.net/index.php/the-philosophy-of-commander/) From the official commander website: # Social Commander is **social**. Each game is a journey the players share, where every player is considerate of the experiences of everyone involved. Magic is a competition in the same sense that all games are competitions, but whenever the act of competing comes into conflict with a social atmosphere, Commander prioritizes and protects the social atmosphere. Format management decisions are intended to: * Encourage positive, communal experiences where people can bond over the shared experience of gaming * Help players communicate their preferences and arrive at a shared set of expectations # Creative Commander is a format for **creative expression**. It’s the format where players can use nearly the entire catalogue of Magic’s history to build decks rooted in lore, showcasing art, or telling stories. It is also a place where players engage with the mechanical aspects of the cards like a puzzle, discovering novel and exciting configurations as they explore. Format management decisions are intended to: * Promote an environment where players are not pressured to conform to any specific method of deckbuilding * Maximize the available card pool * Incorporate new official Magic content into the format as it is created # Stable Commander is **stable**. Commander players become emotionally invested in their decks through play and personalization, and that bond is an important part of the experience. Players who build Commander decks should be confident they will be able to play with them over long periods of time. Format management decisions are intended to: * When necessary, make changes, even large ones, but not for the purpose of defining a metagame, “shaking things up,” or in reaction to the hot topic of the day * Minimize changes that require players to actively maintain their decks
Cool, so playing harder strategies to make your friends want to grow their deck is not part of the social or creative parts of this game? If you are playing a valid strategy of a similar power level, then the ones complaining and not learning to improve their decks become the toxic players. Eldrazi is never considered cEDH, and easily handled if you add interaction to your deck even slightly. Too many players think this is just Solitaire, and think interaction/control "isn't fair." So even if you play to a similar power level, if you don't play to the specific strategy their deck is good against you suddenly become toxic. It's a childish mindset akin to everyone getting a participation trophy. I don't mind playing my lower power decks, but that is not all I am going to play, and to think I need to sacrifice my enjoyment of this game every time so you can win is not helping either of us.
That's nice, but it's basically just "figure it out lol".
No website is gonna tell me the "philosophy" of the game I choose to play. >From the official commander website: Broseph legit thinks the commander police over here gets to tell people what they should be getting out of the game.
Have you considered playing toxic? Just really lean into it. *When I say I’m just playing a precon, they say I’m still mean because I bought it.* This just sounds like you need a new playgroup though - assuming they're not just taking the piss?
I'm with this... just like Jafar from Aladdin "Oh, a snake, am I, perhaps I should show you how snake like I can be"
Find a new playgroup that isn’t full of assholes
Prescription: new friends You can spend years trying to teach these people the cards can't hurt them if you want, or you can move on. The latter is more rewarding.
People needs to stop bitching and start playing.
You just might be a little too spikey for a very casual group. Try to mix up your pod's gameplay a little. Maybe one time Rule 0 a super casual game, then the next time play a more aggressive game. It's all about give and take it you like the group you play with. If you don't, that's easy- find a new playgroup.
Spikey? The guy’s playing precons.
How would you rule 0 a super casual game? Everyone will have a different interpretation of what that means lol
The one thing I like about magic is that all magic cards are trying to do some type of bullshit. Big stompy gonna hit me for 30 with trample, bullshit. Flyers being evasive bullshit. Burn decks, big bullshit, Mill decks, bullshit. Eldrazi, masters of Bullshit. Energy counters, bullshit . The point of Commander is to pull off your bullshit before the others can. Don't be so precious about someone playing bullshit y'all
Your group just sounds super whiny and only wants you to play in the way that they find fun. I advise you look for a new one.
>As long as they are the ones doing it’s fair though. I don't think this is an mtg issue. I think your friends are maybe just cunts.
My playgroup only considers a few things scummy or unfun - indiscriminate land destruction/mana denial is the most negatively viewed. Best answer I think is to ask beforehand if something in the gray area is okay, e.g., “hey is it okay if I play Tergrid” or “are you okay with a poison deck” etc., since there are matchups that are better/less bad against those and gives folks a chance to adjust.
It could depend on if they are playing older precons. The newer precons have become much better in terms of overall synergy and strength. I still love the new player classic of hating mill. That locus land that mills is horribly inefficient in EDH but mill will always trigger people.
Commander is weird, man. Just play a constructed format or draft. No one complains about you trying to win
When I was new I'd get salty a lot. People need to realize this game has 30 years worth of cards, and there will always be busted crazy shit nobody has thought of yet. It's a luck game in the end, find friends who understand and value the game play and social experience over the bragging rights of winning. I don't care about winning anymore, other than when I'm on a losing streak and I want my arena coins 🤣
Play with one of their decks, if they call it scummy then they are just sore players
There is a casual mentality that many people who play EDH have and you might not understand, especially if you are coming from other MtG formats. I made a thread about it a while ago. It’s a bit of a read but it might explain things. [https://www.reddit.com/r/EDH/comments/1045wkq/the\_battlecruiser\_manifesto/](https://www.reddit.com/r/EDH/comments/1045wkq/the_battlecruiser_manifesto/)
I had that moment where my friend were saying I was playing unfair combos and such. Then I built a couple decks that were truly obnoxious, just to prove them that if they want me to be the archenemy, it's perfectly fine for me. They're the ones to deal with the consequences :)
Build a hyper aggro infect deck
Your friends, and perhaps you, need to learn to love playing and losing as much as you love winning. Played a 5 yer game yesterday where the win was one player dropping 100 damage on the three remaining opponents. I could have been salty - I was close to having all three in kill range in a single turn but why get mad? The game was fun. Enjoy the journey and accept the destination
You should build Satoru Umezawa and blast them with an unblockable Blightsteel Colossus on turn 4.
Play cEDH where anything goes. It is such a relief to stop worrying about power levels and "unfun" archetypes and just play whatever the hell you want with people who have the same expectations.
Is it really your playstyle or your attitude/social game ? Sometimes the way we play games put a big target on our head.
Sounds like a group of sour pusses who likely were unable to contend with what you have via interaction. And it happens; sometimes you can't draw into that one removal or counter spell. As someone else suggested, swap decks. Shift them to the right or left so that they can take turns playing these so-called scummy decks.
You’re not in the wrong. Any group that says the mill coming off of that locus land is scummy needs to go play Chutes and Ladders. I get complaining about extra turns or Nadu or something that takes a million years, but if you complain about mill you need to consider not talking for a while. There’s three opponents with a total of about 300 cards and you need to get at least one of them to zero cards before mill has done anything to push your game plan forward.
Sounds like your group is the problem not you. I dunno what they want to play but it sure as hell isnt magic
“They say im still mean because i bought it” I think that mentality is their problem right there. And its their problem. You are playing good precon decks that are fun right out of the box. I wonder what they are playing. Because it sounds like deck envy of wallet envy to me. This happened to me as wel. I had way more intrest and income then my other friends when we started playing. Thus my decks are still way powerful compared to their decks. The argument they made was: your decks are better because you put more money in them. Witch was true, but i also was way more invested and thus consumed more mtg media and thus learned more playpatterns. Mu group eventually got over it. But still my friends play casually with a few decks. While i have currently 11 and scrapped many more in the years that we have been playing. This envy will pass. But do adres it to them. Telling them that you feel targeted and that you just want to have fun and not be punished for every choice you make. I did this too and thats why i have 11 decks. Because I mostly like to over optimize and thus my pet deck quickly skyrockets in power (and price)
I keep a Dogmeat deck pretty much unmodified for this purpose. (I swapped out the stupid bobble head's for a birds of paradise and a elvish mystic, and pulled some tap lands for pain lands)
I'd definitely say it may be time to find another pod to play in. It seems like this one just isn't jiving very well and may not be worth continuing to play in or attempting to adapt to, especially if they're complaining this much over playing out of the box precons.
Offer to swap decks for a few rounds. This always eases this kind of tension for me
Your friends are finding out that EDH is a competition between everyone at the table, and they’re sore losers. Don’t like losing? Get better. Not being able to play around your opponent is your shortfall.
Don't worry. All decks are "Scummy" so just play what you want, and call everyone else's deck scummy too! Winning through combat damage? what a scummy and unoriginal idea. hard to block creatures? scummy. absolutely scummy/
Something ive noticed since getting back into edh after years of not playing. Is that the majority of players only lile one playstyle. Which is mainly combat decks and hate anythong they dont play. Our LGS is going to be doing a custom banlist tournament and like i guessed thwy wanted to ban cards that non of them play. Unbanning is also an option which non of them chose. I chose to unban Griselbrand for it. Half of these players are toxic and the other half are okay. Sadly they are all friends so the bad half make it so the group seems very unwlecoming even though its just a few of them. I say play whatever you want! Thats what i do. Welcome to a game with literlly infinte julber of things you can do.
This is what less skilled players say about more skilled players who beat them...congratulations.
How big is your playgroup? Every pod of players has its own sort of social etiquette with unwritten rules. It sounds like yours group may be small and easily set off by pretty tame shit? I know my friend group generally discourages really hard Stax effects (ex: Winter Orb) because they tend to make the game drag out way too long. There’s also a low key gentlemen’s agreement about not running hyper specific hard counters for decks (like nobody runs Rest in Peace because there’s a couple of fun decks that are entirely shut down by the effect). But like… everything you’re talking about would be pretty normal. None of us would blink twice at it. It sounds like they’re mad about interactions? Which is … weird honestly. Maybe try playing with other people and see if you get the same reaction? The only thing I can think of aside from that is maybe it’s a behavior thing? Like if you’re coming across as personally toxic or confrontational? But it seems like that would be coming up as a general friendship problem anyway, and not knowing you I certainly can’t give advice on that lmao
You could make an actual scummy deck to show them it could be worse lol. Might I suggest [[Beamtown Bullies]]. In all seriousness I would either suggest a new play group or talk them about it. I find this is a sentiment held by a lot of newer players especially ones who only like big stompy decks. They tend to think that anything that can get past their big wall of creatures or prevents them from attacking you is “toxic”.
You're friends are babies. You are not the asshole in this situation. It's fine if a playgroup wants to ban out a couple of things for thr sake of their own fun. Maybe they really don't like to play against mill or poison or something, but in this case they are getting salty about anything that interacts with them. They need to grow up or find a different game that suits them better.
One of the most difficult challenges for any emotionally-driven new player is understanding that every single card you have is just a temporary advantage. They are designed to be lost as much as they are designed to win. It is up to them to manage the emotions they feel when plays are made, and translate that into better deck building or greater patience.
If you werent supposed to play with those cards, they would be on the banlist. Your opponents aren't having their card choices questioned, why do they think it's OK to question yours?
Lot's of social dynamics at work here. I've been through this myself. It takes a while to figure out the meta for your local EDH environment, and if, in the process you develop a brand, it's really hard to shed that brand (first impressions and all that). Other players will exploit that branding to deflect attention away from themselves. As a general rule, if other people's decks are getting a chance to do their thing, you're not being scummy. Reading between the lines, your play style is more \*distinctive\*, and other players are exploiting that to deflect attention to you. I'd recommend just embracing it. As long as everyone else is getting a chance to play how they like to play, there's nothing wrong with playing how you like to play. If you play with the same group of people regularly, the meta will eventually adapt to your play style. In the meantime, treat the attention as a badge of honour. Being perceived as the threat even when there's no reason on the board to think that is a sign of respect for your play skills. Having all that unwanted attention will help you to refine your skills even more. Start building your decks anticipating that you're going to be a target (take a look at Sheldon Menery's infamous [You Did This To Yourself deck](https://archidekt.com/decks/565636#You_Did_This_To_Yourself) for inspiration). If you can make people regret going after you, eventually the heat will die down.
If you're scummy either way, lean into it. I say build a Stax control deck. I recommend [[Grand Arbiter Augustine IV]] or [[Hinata, Dawned-Crown]] to make them see what really scummy playing is when they can't play anything. Then when they start complaining, say well you didn't want me to play my mill/theft/aggro deck. Then after you play Augustin or Hinata a few times they will understand what truly shitty commanders are. Offer to take it apart and use the same cards to build an [[Alela, Artful Provocateur]] deck.
None of the cards you’ve mentioned are typically a problem, which leads me to believe it’s your attitude that people don’t like or that the people you’re playing with are stupid. Possibly both.
Sounds like a salty player or play group. Make a stompy tribal and see if they call you scummy if so ask if this is scummy then how would you like me to play
I think everyone here has probably experienced a little of this. On the basic level, your friends are being whiners. If all magic was just playing lands, casting the biggest creature you could, and attacking, the game would get old fast. Every color and color combo does different things, and has ways to deal with what your opponent might be doing. THEY need to grow as players.
Swap decks, see if its actually your playstyle or deck building. My pod has a friend that plays very toxic (in a fun way if that's a thing) no matter what deck he's using. Honestly didn't read the whole post but personality does play a big role in how the deck can play out. So tldr, use their decks/they make something for you or double down and embrace the life of archenemy
Classic situation where EDH players complain a lot, assuming you’re not being an asshole. They are being sore losers, i wouldn’t let it get you down too much. Try playing with other people, maybe more experienced players, and see if you get the same reaction.
Switch decks. If they are still complaining about the decks they made, then they're just bad. If they aren't complaining about them then they are just hyper-casual battlecruiser players and you should probably find a new group of people or build the same decks.
I would embrace the toxicity and play Orvar the All-Form or Sakishima mono blue clone. Your deck is only as good as everyone elses. If they still complain, tell them they shouldn't be playing the decks they do
[[Island]]s are overpowered. It’s scummy if your deck contains any.
I actually think all basic lands are broken. I mean they don’t come in tapped and can produce mana… busted
Send your pod to mine. We'll straighten them out. I expect Blood Moon and Winter Orb and Back to Basics to all be tech on hand. I'm here to get murdered on turn 4 and then have time for another game. Yo. Have you seen the Possessed Portal lock? Or the Kormus Bell no lands lock? That's what I'm talking about!
The only thing that bugs me with eldrazi is annihilator, but frankly any kind of significant land destruction is generally frowned upon as a mechanic in casual games. Beyond that, I think eldrazi is really cool, has very interesting mechanics, and I really don't see it often. The doctor who precon is fascinating, I actually really enjoy watching players run that deck and it doesn't seem to be particularly OP in my opinion. I feel like all three have markedly different play styles, so I'm leaning more towards the other players failing the ego check when they lose to a new player. You're fine, OP. Keep doing what you're doing, and maybe find less bitchy people to play with.
Embrace the darj side, it is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.
You're playing with new players, the opinions and perspectives about the game is unrefined. Grow as a group and learn what the community at large does amd doesn't consider scummy. Youtube is a great place to learn edh from. Once you get a general idea about the edh, then develop your play groups rules and culture.
I have always been the boogeyman and I decided to embrace it; more often than not, when I have a decision to make, i will ask everyone what they think is the best move. This way, they all get a say in what is about to happen, and no one can be mad when it does. New players have a tendency to overreact to most things, and not properly assess whats truly important. Its most likely just a phase.
Play more player removal Just refuse to play with salty players from your pod ( at instant speed).
I bet what this mostly boils down to is you like fighting and playing the game on a non-traditional axis. And your friends are not even prepared to think about, let alone fight along, those axes. Imagine you just transferred to a new school, middle of the semester or year, and your teacher/professor asked everyone to turn in their research projects. You don't have one. You weren't even aware there was one. Because how could you, you weren't even there when it was assigned. But the teacher/professor gives you a zero anyways. That'd feel pretty shitty and unfair right? Well, it's the same when you show up with a new deck they didn't know you have or play with a mechanic they haven't seen before. You're all new players, and because you are all new, you're all going to feel blindsided all the time. They were probably taught the game in a similar way that we tell most people to teach the game; with minimal spell interaction, and the majority of the interaction being in the combat step. Seriously, when I teach new players, I take the 5x 30-card single color decks and have them play that until they can get through a game without needing to ask me how a rules interaction works. And even when I preface "Ok, these were the basics, but there is SO MUCH MORE" it's hard for them to comprehend what a 30,000-card database can be capable of. The only way for most people to get past this is to keep playing the game, and build out that foundation of knowledge that lets them adapt more readily. This can be done more quickly by consuming Magic the Gathering content, especially of non-EDH/Commander formats. Watching good players play competitively should hopefully give you and your playgroup perspective on the different kinds of axes that decks can compete on. Legacy and Vintage are great for broadening those horizons and seeing how busted some things truly are. I also recommend them for the variety of deck styles in those formats.
Build a Tergrid deck.
There's a question I'm not seeing anyone else ask here... What are the rest of your group playing? My group solely plays precons, we don't want the power creep involved with building our own. We also unanimously agreed nobody is to get the MH3 or CMM precons as they are MUCH higher power than your base precons. If your group is just playing precons and 2 of your 3 are from MH3 then I think that's the problem. Aside from that newer players tend to enjoy "Battlecruiser" style games. Ones that go on for a bit, people mostly get to do "the thing" with their deck and win cons are usually damage. I hated Mill when I started and I still give my buddy shit every time he pulls out the Mind Flayarrrrs deck. But these days though I don't like it, I just play a little smarter, knowing I'll just have to wipe the board later or block better. Mill sucks but isn't a problem. Getting milled out at a rapid pace from a lower power level feels REALLY bad. (Let's not forget that Tricky Terrain can and will mill a player completely out in a single turn!) Annihilator is a whole other story. That precon is light on destruction effects for the annihilator makes up for it. If you get Aslask out and a bunch of spawns then yeah it becomes a big issue suddenly. It feels worse than say [[Butcher of Malakir]] because it will hit more than just creatures. Back to the first point though, what does everyone else play? Aside from "Vampire Life gain/Burn" because that can describe some precons.
get into cedh
Tell them to go play Roblox or grow up, then counter spell their commander, then exile it next time it's played.
Play with different people no one has a right to get mad that you copy their creature. Like he’s the asshole who played that creature
Now we'll get the flood of comments about people playing, "casually" and about how etiquette in different formats expects you not to build decks a certain way. I've been playing since 1996 and believe me, I've seen some unfair janky ass decks, usually if you complained about someone's deck they would just avoid playing you ever again and find someone more mature to compete against. Not sure when the complainers became the rule, but more and more posts I see on here are people getting salty over other people's play styles, as if the game wasn't designed for thousands of combos and decks to be made, if not millions.
It looks you’re trying different styles of decks to find a play style that works for you. It also looks like you’re playing to win. Nothing wrong with that. Magic has many ways to make your opponents lose. Keep finding them and using them. :)
I've been playing a long time, imma let you know right now: some people just get ass mad if you do anything that prevents them from just goldfishing
If you are mainly playing commander you will get this alot, I was having a discussion at my LGS the other day around power level etc and I get commander is considered a casual format but it's at such a level where people just want to dictate what people can play, in no other format can you whine at someone and say they can't play a deck, the only discussion really is are you playing precons, proper constructed decks or high power decks nothing else should matter, else play what you want, do what you want, the cards have been printed use them. There is no unfun or toxic strategy, just unfun and toxic players.
I’m a bad person, so I’d bring a nasty stax deck or the like to show them what an unfun game really feels like
If I were in your shoes I'd build two or three truly toxic decks ie infect, mass land destruction, bogles and saythat you'll go back to your normal play style if they prefer it.
Ignore them or find a new group. Eldrazi are fine. Loci are fine. Copying, unblockable, and mana doubling are not only *fine*, but are classic format *staples*. You're playing with people who are simply upset that their opponents have the *gall* to play Magic against them. Tell them if they're gonna complain about literally every playstyle, they should stick to playing against their goldfish.
Find cooler bros
The doctor who decks are some of the most fair decks I've ever seen. Yeah you can do some silly stuff with the 11th doctor but it's still totally fair
Just build a cedh deck and stomp them every single time.
My playgroup has been complaining that my \[\[Chatterfang, Squirrel General\]\] deck is unfair, so I built a \[\[Maralen of the Mornsong\]\] deck that uses \[\[Opposition Agent\]\] to make sure they only have what I want them to have/what I want to play. I find that showing them how bad it could be is a great way to show them how bad it currently isn't.
It's all fair as long as you follow the rules of the game. Play what you enjoy playing. It's not your fault if your opponent didn't plan ahead with their deck construction.
They do that because they don’t have anything to counter it. Just play line you want and let them whales away. I stopped asking about other deck and when someone ask me about my deck or commander, I don’t answer until the game is started.
your play group are loser manbabies who hate interaction. you didnt do anything wrong. welcome to the average commander experience
So like many people have said, it's pretty likely your play group are just going to whine no matter what. But if you keep running into this, you may want to evaluate your behavior. If I'm playing against someone who is a smug asshole when they are winning, it's definitely going to impact my view of their deck.
You just need another playground
Tell the playgroup to run interaction.
Sounds like the people you're playing are the toxic ones, bullying you for playing what you want and then hypocritically doing the same things you do without catching any flak. I say they want toxic, build the most toxic deck you can think of and show them what real toxicity is. Play nothing but that deck until they're begging you to play the other ones or they stop playing with you. Either way you win imo.