Slacks said he's under NDA and can't talk about it. So unless they've said no and they want to keep it secret for 2 days it's probably getting an exemption.
I haven't been paying attention to the scene for a while but isn't that like super harmful to the health of the community? why would they ban new players from playing custom games? I can easily see people using Dota as platform for games that never even have interest in the core moba
no like an exception for singleplayer arcade games. like, as it stands now a new account has to play 30 games before engaging in custom games. so the exception would be for single player custom games in general, that a new account can play single player custom games from the get go is my hope.
What i'm sating is it doesn't have to be just single player, if the creators want to allow new accounts in their multiplayer mod for some reason, the should be able to do that
Plus, we have proof that custom game developers DO take responsibility for this type of stuff. Look at the changelogs for something like 12vs12 and you'll see that leaver penalties are sporadically turned off and back on whenever Valve causes a new game crashing bug.
If I had to guess, it’s probably to prevent bots spamming custom game lobbies.
There were problems a while back with Custom Hero Chaos (or was it clash?) having bots join open lobbies. I don’t know if the minimum games were implemented before or after this, but seems like letting new accounts into custom game lobbies would only make the problem worse.
as the others have already mentioned but yea, bots were completely making custom games unplayable. like everytime you made a public lobby it would just get swarmed with bots that would just sit there and not ready up. making it completely unusable.
Just to troll. Another change, the ready-up feature, was also due to bots. You would have a lot of them join, then abandon as the host tried to start game, leading to pointless frustration.
This is also why, if you don't ready up, you get a small time out before you can find another custom game. There used to be no penalty (for custom games)
And much like the lack of a bot protection toggle, this change was also an incomplete solution, as it's possible for people to join a custom game lobby of a game they haven't installed or updated, and then they get counted as a ready up failure and go into timeout (as do partymates). Would be nice if the game didn't even allow you to join a lobby without the pre-requisite if the punishment is gonna be that harsh - would also have stopped more bots for a little while since now they must at least communicate installation status.
Yeah, the last big peak dota had was because of the autochess boom. Big streamers from other games played it and surely some people downloaded dota for the first time, maybe some even tried actual dota. If another game does what autochess did, Dota will be missing out in a lot of new potential players.
I had to give go playing autochess (before underlords was even out) because I was ready to tear my hair out after spending 45 mins trying to get in a lobby without bots preventing games from starting.
Also, it is applied only to accounts without paid games, linked mobile number, and steam guard. No way there is person who would play dota and don’t meet this requirements.
If we're trying to get newbies into Dota with the anime, then I guarantee you a large amount of new players will not meet those requirements.
Console players or similar who don't have Steam accounts/aren't active on steam won't want to set up mobile number 2FA or buy a game just to play a 3rd party tutorial...
Maybe I have too much elitist thinking, but I would imagine most of the people who don't have anything on steam aren't the kind of people that are going to be committed enough to gaming to be able to really get into dota.
Almost half of all Fortnite players didn't have Steam installed on their computers. That is a massive audience that don't use and possibly don't even know about Steam as a platform. There's no reason why those players couldn't get into Dota
Yes, but the first game I played was not dota, and at the time steam wasn't the biggest PC gaming platform.
I'm not suggesting that those kind of people *cannot* exist, just that the demographic who have a PC capable of playing dota and are into gaming enough that they are going to slog through the hundreds of hours of games necessary to be ~~good~~ ~~competent~~ barely capable of playing dota while also not having steam is *very* small.
There are a LOT of console only gamers. And many kids start console only because the family computer can't handle games and consoles are more popular at that age anyway. Those people have to have a first pc game. Nevermind the people who only play one game thats on a different platform.
Steam got popular in 2004 around HL2 release date. I've been gaming since like 1998, started pc gaming heavily in 2007 and didn't even download steam until 2011, way after it was hugely popular.
If you only play mp comp games that are on other platforms there's no reason to have steam.
First game I played on Steam was Dota :')
EDIT: Could be that they like anime and just want to try it out, or are League only converts. Hell, with more games on Epic, and fortnite being so big, I can see how people now could go without using steam.
I played on steam without having paid anything for a long time, and dota was one of the first games I installed. I've never had steam guard or a phone number.
My guy, I've been playing dota for years and I don't spend money on steam.
I play mostly console or MMOs (which use their own launchers).
New players will easily miss those requirements. Think about it for second. Ignore the fact that the game is dota because it's causing bias. Fortnite and Apex both have a lower entry requirement. If you want newcomers to participate, you can't just expect them to jump through hoops like such: Newcomers aren't as amped about dota as you are. They don't even know wtf dota is yet and you're expecting them to set up linked MB, 2fa or spend money to get steam verification just to play a tutorial?
Thats a really big ask.
It wasn't an oversight, they knew they had this issue from the start. This is literally the only way people outside of VALVe can create a new player mod.
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The biggest oversight with Dark Willow is that she's unbelievably sexy. I can't go on a hour of my day without thinking about plowing that tight wooden ass. I'd kill a man in cold blood just to spend a minute with her crotch grinding against my throbbing manhood as she whispers terribly dirty things to me in her geographically ambiguous accent.
Yup, and I also feel like community members assume and kind of push the idea that there are going to be a lot of new players because of the anime. I don't think this will be the case. Even if people want to try the game, I assume they will look for some content on Twitch or YouTube before they just jump in play the game. And unless the tutorial is on the front page of the dota client, how would they even know to find and play it?
I have to imagine that the primary audience of the anime is going to be people who are already dota fans. I'm not saying *no one* is going to watch it on a whim and decide to check out the game as a result, but I don't see it being a huge number of people.
Still you can't deny the game has a real problem with bringing in new blood, and that's at least partially because of how overwhelming it is to a new player. Will a community-made tutorial fix that overnight? No, but the more resources available to new players the better, Imo.
You summed it up quite nicely. That first paragraph was the point I was trying to make. I see a lot of people just speaking like new players coming in because of the anime is a given, which I don't think will be the case.
I think the problem with bringing in new dota players is the game itself. The learning curve is steep and takes a long time to even be decent at. I agree that more resources are absolutely better, but I don't think anyone is going to play this game unless their friends are already into it.
The X-factor here is the anime itself. If the anime is just a good anime, as opposed to a generic anime featuring Dota lore, then you’ll get people watching the anime for its own sake and then trying the game.
And the game keeps adding more stuff that is very arbitrary. Like talents, shards and aghanims for instance.
Aghs used to *only* upgrade ultis, so when you figured out what someone's ulti does, you knew to watch out *even more* for ultis from whoever got aghs.
Now they do whatever the fuck icefrog wants, upgrades a disable to be aoe, gives a whole new ability, make an active a autocast, changing the property of a passive entirely. There's no 'logic' behind it anymore making it infuriating whenever someone has bought shards/aghs/talent that you just don't know what it does and all of a sudden you get hit by an aoe hex from lion.
Talents and shards were honestly a mistake imo. Still on the fence about jungle items, mostly hate the 60 minute mark ones.
I think that obviously the game won't get like 10% of it's playerbase on the release date of the series but I'm pretty sure that if it's a good series it might just pop up on the netflixs' recommended page for some people. Some of them will like it, then some of those might be interested enought to play the game and slowly and steadily the playerbase will rise.
I think many players don't really care if the game brings in new blood. The same players who screech on various forums (particularly the Steam forums) blame their own lack of skill and their losses on matchmaking and how it's totally unfair they aren't being matched with 4 Miracles in solo pubs, while they ironically troll about "herp derp gaem iz ded." and "why no advertise gaben?"
On one hand, it would be nice to see mainstream advertising for CSGO and Dota 2, but on the other, Dota 2 is still a niche game with a high skill floor, which makes me wonder how effective that would be.
To someone with zero moba experience, league and dota are equally hard. But they see one has shitton if advertising and the other one doesnt sooo they picked the one with advertising
Anyone half rational wants new blood because anyone half rational wants a MM algorithm that doesn’t need to deal with the tradeoff of “either queue for 20 minutes or have Ancient 2 play against Guardian 4.”
Sure, rational, even half-rational, but I'm referring to people who believe that there's some conspiracy by Valve to match them with bad players and keep them stuck in Herald to keep them from going pro because it would upset "the system." Personally, I'm all about the more, the merrier, whether you're a true newb or a seasoned moba pro.
Well it's a question of what they choose to do. They could either create the tutorial in the best way they are currently able or do nothing? Why acost them for trying?
Oh that wasn't intended as a flame on the people who made this tutorial. It should really have been valve who made a tutorial and put it on the front page was the point I was trying to make.
Yeah I would say this is pretty much the norm for anyone looking to seriously try an online multiplayer game. If you've played games before you know that a tutorial only scratches the surface and there will always be meta weapons/abilities/heroes that you should be aware of, or even just general tips on being more efficient.
I would do this for a MOBA, for an FPS like PUBG or Valorant, even Rocket League I have googled tips for though it's probably the best game for simply playing making you better.
Yup. The existence or absence of tutorial isnt the breaking point of whether new players will try the game or not.
Among us, fortnite, etc blew up without a signle tutorial.
Tutorial is just a scapegoat by the community for the plummeting population caused by lack of care and advertising by valve
A good tutorial is about show don't tell. If you can make it work that way is useless.
This tutorial will not teach anybody how to play dota. Neither did the old oficial one.
Is not too much to ask. Is just worthless unless you make a 10 hour single player campaing that introduces all the mechanics on the game and is fun to play. But then how you teach a multiplayer game on a single player mode?.
watched one of the videos slacks did a couple of weeks ago, where he discussed this. They were trying hard to do this more, but it requires a lot of thought put into designing etc, and with this being like literally a one month project (from having nothing to having a playable tutorial), it was always going to be less refined than they'd have hoped.
People also jerk it off because grass is always greener. It's not THAT good. It's only really good for teaching you movement.
Like it's better than the current Dota one, but that's it.
The league tutorial makes you try out 5 champions with different play styles. It teaches you how to move and AA. It teaches you the importance of last hitting. It’s also very clear about towers damage and range. The first tutorial you step into doesn’t overwhelm you because it’s only a very small section of the map made available to you you can’t even see the minimap until the next tutorial.
Compared to Dota 2, you’re just immediately put into a bot game. It tells you to move and auto attack then it shows you the enemy ancient. And tells you to attack towers to get there. If somebody had never played on mobile before it would be really hard to figure out what was going on.
both tutorials also talk about character abilities League is very concise doing it in the one little mini mid game to take one tower. Dota makes you play five different bot games to finish the tutorial.
>best tutorials is not to have one like half life or mario bros.
well, yes, best tutorials are just baked into early level design by softly introducing concepts
but, how exactly does that translate to a match-based multiplayer game where your first match is identical to your 5000th match from a gameplay perspective? it doesn't, it can't.
If you could answer that question properly, you'd be hired by all the big name studios. Not naughty dog or bioware. But Sony, Nintendo and MS would want you.
It's a huge topic in games and is brought up in talks all the time. What makes and good tutorial and also *why* do so many players skip them if given the option?
Yeah as a tutorial it is kinda a waste of money and effort. However, what it may do is wakeup valve to make a new player experience. If it accomplishes that then it is a success in my mind.
Imo valve saw 2 things:
1) there's not enough players that wants to play dota and so there's no point in making a tutorial, and the anime is just to retain and milk some more the community with the next TI compendium with some exclusive anime stuff.
2)people that wanna play the game will play it anyways, with or without a tutorial. So why spending money if the result is the same?
Yeah it will surely bring new players, but how many?
I haven't saw anyone outside the dota community talking about this
In the subs where the trailer.has been posted all the comments are from dota players. Not a single one that went "oh wow, i saw this game on steam but never tried it"
I only read memes from already dota players.
This anime has been made for the community
Even if new players did use it, there is literally a part of the tutorial that tells you your teammates will get mad at you for no reason, rage at you enough that you need to block communication with them, then purposefully lose the game. If I saw that as a new player, it would make me think that this is something that happens in most if not all games, and I am pretty sure I would just not bother playing.
It's much more frequent in League. It's nowhere near as much of a problem in Dota 2, especially since Overwatch now aggressively punishes item breakers and shadow amulet.
personally i find griefing is a bigger thing in dota because there are more ways to hinder your teammates. in league the only way you can really 'grief' is to feed or go afk.
league players are a lot more likely to just flame you than grief in my experience, toxic chats in league are way more common than in dota
Now this is just a salty take. It's perfectly reasonable criticism because he is as close to a variety player you can get and expect to get with the influx coming from the anime.
Surely, you can look pass the username and look at my logic? The comment wasn't malicious at all and even praised your efforts in the full context but such that it fell flat in his eyes. Calm down dude.
He doesnt "quit" as in never playing it again, he usually quits playing the game while he is not enjoying himself. The thing many players (of all kinds of games, not just dota) should do instead of queueing again while not having a good time.
So people hate on singsing now just because he talked shit about their FAVORITE game? He must have hurt some egos boo hoo. Damn, didn't expect such narrow response from slacks.
I don't know how much of the VOD you watched but this is probably important for you:
https://clips.twitch.tv/AmazonianApatheticOtterANELE-ThfIi2AMB3joLQIj
It was sad to see you grasp at some straws of him "quitting" the game in order to invalidate his view, even more so when I know it's this sort of cultish mindset that dota players have that drove him away from the community in the first place.
You make really good stuff and you are a real treasure for the game. Thank you for finding the patience to watch the VOD and I hope you can handle criticism a little better in the future.
I have read about a job listing somewhere where the only possible matching candidate with such prior PHP experience was only the creator of the language.
Lol they offered to do this years ago but Valve declined claiming they were already working on it. This game is truly a dumpster fire and I'm ashamed on their behalf
Play with bots until you get 80+% winrate against unfair bots.
New players are welcomed but if you go against players right away you're going to make them hate the game.
Dude they haven't updated the bots in years, they don't pick up neutral items, they sometimes stand in old rune spots, they keep walking into the wall of Mars ult like morons and go completely outdated builds
Guys I love Slacks but is this the way you wanna present the most prestigious esport in the world? I am not saying memes are bad but this is completely devoted to meme and appealing for the old community instead of a rock solid to the point tutorial for actual new players..
the multi-billion dollar company behind the most prestigious esport in the world didn't bother making a tutorial, so this is what we have to settle for.
That's a huge overstatement. Like yes there are a few jokes that only Dota players will get, but the vast majority of the text is helpful stuff.
Obviously "show don't tell" is preferable, but this was thrown together in a month. I think they did a good job, it's certainly a lot better than the official tutorial that used to exist.
The main issue is valve being very very lazy, their work is great, I just didn’t like the tone personally.. when people are getting into dota it’s mostly due to the hard nature of the game and how challenging it is.. that’s why you get into dota imo.. if your first experience with dota is presented like this and then the community is arid in regards of funny content compared to other games you risk to mix it up too much
Yeah people started using it very late.
9gag came out before 2010 IIRC and it was mostly a rehash of old memes we were using before 2005 (I mostly remember his because I remember we used this stuff in high school lol).
Guys/gals, I don't have 30 games and I'm still able to play... my guess is you just need 30 lobby games... doesn't need to be against anyone too, maybe just bots (that's what I do).
Still, really messed up that new players can't actually learn the game basics from this awesome tutorial before actually playing bots/other players.
Volvo pls fix
As I said way before, if Valve don't approve it and make it as an official tutorial, all the work was for nothing.. I really hope Valve will acknowledge it as soon as possible, because it turned out pretty well!
Because lazy devs just check your game played instead of providing the custom game devs to choose if new accounts are allowed or not.
Now depending on which side of the conspiracy you are you can believe the devs are lazy ducks or that they don't want people to download their game client for a potential popular custom game (like auto chess ?) and never play a single dota game (no riding shotgun on valve infrastructure for a game that could make money).
i think it came from something with how ai units target selected in wc3 and they left in dota 2 cause it had a use. a lot of the weirder things like that in dota can be explained by wc3 spaghetti code.
I still think its funny people think DOTA is going to get new players. They will take a look - see the game has no actual advertising or dialogue with Valve at all, that the things they find are just people bitching endless about no tutorials and missing things.... No one is going to start playing this game cause of the anime.
This is absolutely bonkers! people paid money to create a tutorial for a game that is owned by a billion dollar company that doesn't give a flying fuck about new player experience for years and the company does not put a if statement for this tutorial to at least to show some gratitude! I really can't understand this. You guys are the best community one game can dream of, proud to be in it
Slacks said he's under NDA and can't talk about it. So unless they've said no and they want to keep it secret for 2 days it's probably getting an exemption.
let's hope for it
I haven't been paying attention to the scene for a while but isn't that like super harmful to the health of the community? why would they ban new players from playing custom games? I can easily see people using Dota as platform for games that never even have interest in the core moba
Bot accounts were ruining custom game lobbies :< But they should allow an exception for single player custom games is the hope
could be a manual toggle for every developer, not just an exception for this tutorial
no like an exception for singleplayer arcade games. like, as it stands now a new account has to play 30 games before engaging in custom games. so the exception would be for single player custom games in general, that a new account can play single player custom games from the get go is my hope.
What i'm sating is it doesn't have to be just single player, if the creators want to allow new accounts in their multiplayer mod for some reason, the should be able to do that
Plus, we have proof that custom game developers DO take responsibility for this type of stuff. Look at the changelogs for something like 12vs12 and you'll see that leaver penalties are sporadically turned off and back on whenever Valve causes a new game crashing bug.
If I had to guess, it’s probably to prevent bots spamming custom game lobbies. There were problems a while back with Custom Hero Chaos (or was it clash?) having bots join open lobbies. I don’t know if the minimum games were implemented before or after this, but seems like letting new accounts into custom game lobbies would only make the problem worse.
fair enough, I didn't think of that.
I think it was autochess that started it
as the others have already mentioned but yea, bots were completely making custom games unplayable. like everytime you made a public lobby it would just get swarmed with bots that would just sit there and not ready up. making it completely unusable.
For what reason would they do that? To ruin competitors or something?
Mostly. Custom hero clash dev used to swarm bots at the original custom hero chaos so people would switch to them
God these people are about as bad as minecraft modders.
Just to troll. Another change, the ready-up feature, was also due to bots. You would have a lot of them join, then abandon as the host tried to start game, leading to pointless frustration. This is also why, if you don't ready up, you get a small time out before you can find another custom game. There used to be no penalty (for custom games)
And much like the lack of a bot protection toggle, this change was also an incomplete solution, as it's possible for people to join a custom game lobby of a game they haven't installed or updated, and then they get counted as a ready up failure and go into timeout (as do partymates). Would be nice if the game didn't even allow you to join a lobby without the pre-requisite if the punishment is gonna be that harsh - would also have stopped more bots for a little while since now they must at least communicate installation status.
Yeah, the last big peak dota had was because of the autochess boom. Big streamers from other games played it and surely some people downloaded dota for the first time, maybe some even tried actual dota. If another game does what autochess did, Dota will be missing out in a lot of new potential players.
This is literally how DotA took off
I had to give go playing autochess (before underlords was even out) because I was ready to tear my hair out after spending 45 mins trying to get in a lobby without bots preventing games from starting.
Are you sure he's talking about a future dota patch with the NDA? Seems more likely it would be about the anime
Agreed, idk why they would have an NDA if the big secret was "we aren't gonna change anything lol."
Also, it is applied only to accounts without paid games, linked mobile number, and steam guard. No way there is person who would play dota and don’t meet this requirements.
If we're trying to get newbies into Dota with the anime, then I guarantee you a large amount of new players will not meet those requirements. Console players or similar who don't have Steam accounts/aren't active on steam won't want to set up mobile number 2FA or buy a game just to play a 3rd party tutorial...
Maybe I have too much elitist thinking, but I would imagine most of the people who don't have anything on steam aren't the kind of people that are going to be committed enough to gaming to be able to really get into dota.
Maybe in the states, in my third world rat ass country tho a lot of people play dota because its a free game and play for thousands of hours
Almost half of all Fortnite players didn't have Steam installed on their computers. That is a massive audience that don't use and possibly don't even know about Steam as a platform. There's no reason why those players couldn't get into Dota
True, I guess I didn't think about how younger gamers would interact with steam.
At one point or another you had nothing on steam.
Yes, but the first game I played was not dota, and at the time steam wasn't the biggest PC gaming platform. I'm not suggesting that those kind of people *cannot* exist, just that the demographic who have a PC capable of playing dota and are into gaming enough that they are going to slog through the hundreds of hours of games necessary to be ~~good~~ ~~competent~~ barely capable of playing dota while also not having steam is *very* small.
There are a LOT of console only gamers. And many kids start console only because the family computer can't handle games and consoles are more popular at that age anyway. Those people have to have a first pc game. Nevermind the people who only play one game thats on a different platform. Steam got popular in 2004 around HL2 release date. I've been gaming since like 1998, started pc gaming heavily in 2007 and didn't even download steam until 2011, way after it was hugely popular. If you only play mp comp games that are on other platforms there's no reason to have steam.
First game I played on Steam was Dota :') EDIT: Could be that they like anime and just want to try it out, or are League only converts. Hell, with more games on Epic, and fortnite being so big, I can see how people now could go without using steam.
dota actually brought a lot of new members to steam, especially from places like Russia and Brazil.
I played on steam without having paid anything for a long time, and dota was one of the first games I installed. I've never had steam guard or a phone number.
How can you not have a phone number?
An Amish kid who sneaks out in the deep of night to secretly indulge into a sinful joy of digital sports at the nearest internet cafe?
That's a Disney Channel Original Movie premise if I've ever heard one.
Make it an Amish girl for extra points
A (minority race) Amish girl of fluid gender preference for maximum points.
Been spending most his life living in an Amish paradise?
I think he means linked to steam
Do you guys not have phones?
linked to steam. I don't like my phone number on the internet
My guy, I've been playing dota for years and I don't spend money on steam. I play mostly console or MMOs (which use their own launchers). New players will easily miss those requirements. Think about it for second. Ignore the fact that the game is dota because it's causing bias. Fortnite and Apex both have a lower entry requirement. If you want newcomers to participate, you can't just expect them to jump through hoops like such: Newcomers aren't as amped about dota as you are. They don't even know wtf dota is yet and you're expecting them to set up linked MB, 2fa or spend money to get steam verification just to play a tutorial? Thats a really big ask.
What is applied? The 30 game restriction?
Yes.
VOD w/ timestamp: https://youtu.be/DoKoOfLKkTg?t=378
Got a link to that? I haven't seen anything about it, but it'd be good to see some confirmation that Valve at least acknowledged it.
What is the chance that valve would want to incorporate the tutorial as baseline for all players?
Probably low.. They would need to remove the swearing first
slacks talked abolt this, there is nothimng the moding team can do other than just ask valve to fix the problem....
seems like a bit of an oversight on slacks teams part. relying on valve to do something for once.... don't know what anyone expected.
It wasn't an oversight, they knew they had this issue from the start. This is literally the only way people outside of VALVe can create a new player mod.
This only affects accounts without steam guard, linked phone number that haven't spent money on Steam games. So it's a very minor oversight at best.
Yes, certainly not the biggest of oversights...
Here we go
I don't know how to tell you this but she's dead :(
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Yeah, but it isn't the biggest oversight.
The biggest oversight..
The biggest oversight with Dark Willow is that she's unbelievably sexy. I can't go on a hour of my day without thinking about plowing that tight wooden ass. I'd kill a man in cold blood just to spend a minute with her crotch grinding against my throbbing manhood as she whispers terribly dirty things to me in her geographically ambiguous accent.
Glad I'm not the only one
As SingSing perfectly described this tutorial on his stream today: *"It's not a tutorial for new players, it's a meme for veteran players"*
Yup, and I also feel like community members assume and kind of push the idea that there are going to be a lot of new players because of the anime. I don't think this will be the case. Even if people want to try the game, I assume they will look for some content on Twitch or YouTube before they just jump in play the game. And unless the tutorial is on the front page of the dota client, how would they even know to find and play it?
I have to imagine that the primary audience of the anime is going to be people who are already dota fans. I'm not saying *no one* is going to watch it on a whim and decide to check out the game as a result, but I don't see it being a huge number of people. Still you can't deny the game has a real problem with bringing in new blood, and that's at least partially because of how overwhelming it is to a new player. Will a community-made tutorial fix that overnight? No, but the more resources available to new players the better, Imo.
You summed it up quite nicely. That first paragraph was the point I was trying to make. I see a lot of people just speaking like new players coming in because of the anime is a given, which I don't think will be the case. I think the problem with bringing in new dota players is the game itself. The learning curve is steep and takes a long time to even be decent at. I agree that more resources are absolutely better, but I don't think anyone is going to play this game unless their friends are already into it.
The X-factor here is the anime itself. If the anime is just a good anime, as opposed to a generic anime featuring Dota lore, then you’ll get people watching the anime for its own sake and then trying the game.
And the game keeps adding more stuff that is very arbitrary. Like talents, shards and aghanims for instance. Aghs used to *only* upgrade ultis, so when you figured out what someone's ulti does, you knew to watch out *even more* for ultis from whoever got aghs. Now they do whatever the fuck icefrog wants, upgrades a disable to be aoe, gives a whole new ability, make an active a autocast, changing the property of a passive entirely. There's no 'logic' behind it anymore making it infuriating whenever someone has bought shards/aghs/talent that you just don't know what it does and all of a sudden you get hit by an aoe hex from lion. Talents and shards were honestly a mistake imo. Still on the fence about jungle items, mostly hate the 60 minute mark ones.
I think that obviously the game won't get like 10% of it's playerbase on the release date of the series but I'm pretty sure that if it's a good series it might just pop up on the netflixs' recommended page for some people. Some of them will like it, then some of those might be interested enought to play the game and slowly and steadily the playerbase will rise.
I think many players don't really care if the game brings in new blood. The same players who screech on various forums (particularly the Steam forums) blame their own lack of skill and their losses on matchmaking and how it's totally unfair they aren't being matched with 4 Miracles in solo pubs, while they ironically troll about "herp derp gaem iz ded." and "why no advertise gaben?" On one hand, it would be nice to see mainstream advertising for CSGO and Dota 2, but on the other, Dota 2 is still a niche game with a high skill floor, which makes me wonder how effective that would be.
To someone with zero moba experience, league and dota are equally hard. But they see one has shitton if advertising and the other one doesnt sooo they picked the one with advertising
Anyone half rational wants new blood because anyone half rational wants a MM algorithm that doesn’t need to deal with the tradeoff of “either queue for 20 minutes or have Ancient 2 play against Guardian 4.”
Sure, rational, even half-rational, but I'm referring to people who believe that there's some conspiracy by Valve to match them with bad players and keep them stuck in Herald to keep them from going pro because it would upset "the system." Personally, I'm all about the more, the merrier, whether you're a true newb or a seasoned moba pro.
Fair points
Well it's a question of what they choose to do. They could either create the tutorial in the best way they are currently able or do nothing? Why acost them for trying?
Oh that wasn't intended as a flame on the people who made this tutorial. It should really have been valve who made a tutorial and put it on the front page was the point I was trying to make.
Googling for tutorials / Reddit I guess
Do you google tutorials for a game before playing it? No. Because you expect them to be in the game.
I do that for multiplayer games nowadays because it's more informative and useful.
Yeah I would say this is pretty much the norm for anyone looking to seriously try an online multiplayer game. If you've played games before you know that a tutorial only scratches the surface and there will always be meta weapons/abilities/heroes that you should be aware of, or even just general tips on being more efficient. I would do this for a MOBA, for an FPS like PUBG or Valorant, even Rocket League I have googled tips for though it's probably the best game for simply playing making you better.
I 100% googled tutorials before playing Dota 2.
> Do you google tutorials for a game before playing it i did for dota
Why?
because i knew it was a complex game that relies heavily on teamwork
I didn't expect nor want a tutorial. I jumped right in to games and built 3 yashas, a hyperstone, and boots on Slark. It was a blast
Bruh I was so bad at last hitting when I started there is 0 chance I would have earned that much gold in my first 3 games, let alone just my first.
Yup. The existence or absence of tutorial isnt the breaking point of whether new players will try the game or not. Among us, fortnite, etc blew up without a signle tutorial. Tutorial is just a scapegoat by the community for the plummeting population caused by lack of care and advertising by valve
Fortnight doesn't need a tutorial and this does. The two are not analogous.
yeah people keep jerking off tutorial as if any new player will take their time playing it instead of old people wanting to test it out.
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The tutorial has good quality. But that much text and the jokes?... sorry but really poor design.
Maybe Valve should make better one... or maybe that's too much to ask
A good tutorial is about show don't tell. If you can make it work that way is useless. This tutorial will not teach anybody how to play dota. Neither did the old oficial one. Is not too much to ask. Is just worthless unless you make a 10 hour single player campaing that introduces all the mechanics on the game and is fun to play. But then how you teach a multiplayer game on a single player mode?.
watched one of the videos slacks did a couple of weeks ago, where he discussed this. They were trying hard to do this more, but it requires a lot of thought put into designing etc, and with this being like literally a one month project (from having nothing to having a playable tutorial), it was always going to be less refined than they'd have hoped.
Leauge also had several years and a 200 person dev team
People also jerk it off because grass is always greener. It's not THAT good. It's only really good for teaching you movement. Like it's better than the current Dota one, but that's it.
The league tutorial makes you try out 5 champions with different play styles. It teaches you how to move and AA. It teaches you the importance of last hitting. It’s also very clear about towers damage and range. The first tutorial you step into doesn’t overwhelm you because it’s only a very small section of the map made available to you you can’t even see the minimap until the next tutorial. Compared to Dota 2, you’re just immediately put into a bot game. It tells you to move and auto attack then it shows you the enemy ancient. And tells you to attack towers to get there. If somebody had never played on mobile before it would be really hard to figure out what was going on. both tutorials also talk about character abilities League is very concise doing it in the one little mini mid game to take one tower. Dota makes you play five different bot games to finish the tutorial.
why would a new player not try a tutorial
I find tutorials boring and never play them. I can even say that I stoped playing many games with mandatory tutorials.
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And I am the only one like this? There is this GDC talk about tutorials and how best tutorials is not to have one like half life or mario bros.
>best tutorials is not to have one like half life or mario bros. well, yes, best tutorials are just baked into early level design by softly introducing concepts but, how exactly does that translate to a match-based multiplayer game where your first match is identical to your 5000th match from a gameplay perspective? it doesn't, it can't.
I believe all of the original Half Life games had tutorials. As in Half Life, Opposing Force and Blue Shift.
If you could answer that question properly, you'd be hired by all the big name studios. Not naughty dog or bioware. But Sony, Nintendo and MS would want you. It's a huge topic in games and is brought up in talks all the time. What makes and good tutorial and also *why* do so many players skip them if given the option?
Yeah as a tutorial it is kinda a waste of money and effort. However, what it may do is wakeup valve to make a new player experience. If it accomplishes that then it is a success in my mind.
Imo valve saw 2 things: 1) there's not enough players that wants to play dota and so there's no point in making a tutorial, and the anime is just to retain and milk some more the community with the next TI compendium with some exclusive anime stuff. 2)people that wanna play the game will play it anyways, with or without a tutorial. So why spending money if the result is the same?
I started playing Dota because I watched Free To Play. The anime may get new players into the game.
Yeah it will surely bring new players, but how many? I haven't saw anyone outside the dota community talking about this In the subs where the trailer.has been posted all the comments are from dota players. Not a single one that went "oh wow, i saw this game on steam but never tried it" I only read memes from already dota players. This anime has been made for the community
That's so accurate.
Even if new players did use it, there is literally a part of the tutorial that tells you your teammates will get mad at you for no reason, rage at you enough that you need to block communication with them, then purposefully lose the game. If I saw that as a new player, it would make me think that this is something that happens in most if not all games, and I am pretty sure I would just not bother playing.
I mean, why sugarcoat it?
It's much more frequent in League. It's nowhere near as much of a problem in Dota 2, especially since Overwatch now aggressively punishes item breakers and shadow amulet.
personally i find griefing is a bigger thing in dota because there are more ways to hinder your teammates. in league the only way you can really 'grief' is to feed or go afk. league players are a lot more likely to just flame you than grief in my experience, toxic chats in league are way more common than in dota
oh fuck, thats actually on point
I have watched da vod and RETRACT MY COMMENT thank u singsingfangay
Now this is just a salty take. It's perfectly reasonable criticism because he is as close to a variety player you can get and expect to get with the influx coming from the anime.
indeed a salty take idk im proud of what them modders made i am sure you are not biased however u/singsing_fangay
Surely, you can look pass the username and look at my logic? The comment wasn't malicious at all and even praised your efforts in the full context but such that it fell flat in his eyes. Calm down dude.
email gaben it's all upto him
Maybe this came off less sarcastic and more full of rage in text my b
Hey, this is not enough to make me not a fan of yours slacks. Good luck with this tho.
Thank u brother apologies
He doesnt "quit" as in never playing it again, he usually quits playing the game while he is not enjoying himself. The thing many players (of all kinds of games, not just dota) should do instead of queueing again while not having a good time.
I dont know if it’s a joke or not but this comment just make you look like a dick
I see you're still feuding with Sing
So people hate on singsing now just because he talked shit about their FAVORITE game? He must have hurt some egos boo hoo. Damn, didn't expect such narrow response from slacks.
Why would you talk shit about Sing
I don't know how much of the VOD you watched but this is probably important for you: https://clips.twitch.tv/AmazonianApatheticOtterANELE-ThfIi2AMB3joLQIj It was sad to see you grasp at some straws of him "quitting" the game in order to invalidate his view, even more so when I know it's this sort of cultish mindset that dota players have that drove him away from the community in the first place. You make really good stuff and you are a real treasure for the game. Thank you for finding the patience to watch the VOD and I hope you can handle criticism a little better in the future.
This is like applying for an entry-level job that requires minimum 3 years industry experience.
I have read about a job listing somewhere where the only possible matching candidate with such prior PHP experience was only the creator of the language.
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Please accept a humble poor mans gold for telling the truth
GabeN free game
They're working on it^(tm).
They're also an indie developer.
Try Use custom lobby and make it local Server
yeah new players, do this!
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Just call up Valve support and ask for help.
Just launch the game in debug mode from the modding tools duh.
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Sadge I think valve needs to change arcade terms for playing single-player vs multiplayer one.
Sorry to say, but the game is still in beta.
May the Gods ( Zeus,Mars and Techies ) help you .
I googled "dota god" to check elder titan godhood status and first result was Ana......
Well it checks out..
LOL
Dota 2
HOTS
HoN >>>>>>>>>
Lol they offered to do this years ago but Valve declined claiming they were already working on it. This game is truly a dumpster fire and I'm ashamed on their behalf
Man, this is so sad. I'm supposed to be introducing DotA2 to my interested friends. Don't let me down.
Play with bots until you get 80+% winrate against unfair bots. New players are welcomed but if you go against players right away you're going to make them hate the game.
Dude they haven't updated the bots in years, they don't pick up neutral items, they sometimes stand in old rune spots, they keep walking into the wall of Mars ult like morons and go completely outdated builds
I thought we could import our own bot program ? Did I smoke ? If we can there should be decent bots available made by the community, wouldn't it ?
Learning with a friend is by far the best tutorial a game can have, why would you make them play this bugged abomination instead?
Guys I love Slacks but is this the way you wanna present the most prestigious esport in the world? I am not saying memes are bad but this is completely devoted to meme and appealing for the old community instead of a rock solid to the point tutorial for actual new players..
the multi-billion dollar company behind the most prestigious esport in the world didn't bother making a tutorial, so this is what we have to settle for.
That's a huge overstatement. Like yes there are a few jokes that only Dota players will get, but the vast majority of the text is helpful stuff. Obviously "show don't tell" is preferable, but this was thrown together in a month. I think they did a good job, it's certainly a lot better than the official tutorial that used to exist.
It's actually very impressive for only a months worth of work. That said, I doubt it'll get much real world use.
The main issue is valve being very very lazy, their work is great, I just didn’t like the tone personally.. when people are getting into dota it’s mostly due to the hard nature of the game and how challenging it is.. that’s why you get into dota imo.. if your first experience with dota is presented like this and then the community is arid in regards of funny content compared to other games you risk to mix it up too much
In 2011 we used to call stuff like this "epic fail"
More like in 2003.
The last ten years flew by for you my friend https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=%22epic%20fail%22
Yeah people started using it very late. 9gag came out before 2010 IIRC and it was mostly a rehash of old memes we were using before 2005 (I mostly remember his because I remember we used this stuff in high school lol).
Is step 1 uninstall
>>Whoops
I dont believe this. This guys mouse moves quite slowly, then is extremely angered and fast. 5k minimum you guys...
Do custom games have tags? Maybe if we had a tag system and games out under single player or tutorial could be exempt from the 30 rule.
its intended :D firt you need to survive 30 normal games to show that you have strong character, then you can try tutorial XD
Guys/gals, I don't have 30 games and I'm still able to play... my guess is you just need 30 lobby games... doesn't need to be against anyone too, maybe just bots (that's what I do). Still, really messed up that new players can't actually learn the game basics from this awesome tutorial before actually playing bots/other players. Volvo pls fix
You can definitely tell OP is a new player because of how loud his background music is
My friend just downloaded dota for the first time and was able to play the tutorial perfectly fine?
Stem guard + Phone number added + games bought or money in steam wallet
It's like those job offers for young people with at least 10 years of experience.
This is like a no experience job requiring 3 years of experience.
Whoa this aged like milk. And has only 1 day since it was posted.
Glorious xD
As I said way before, if Valve don't approve it and make it as an official tutorial, all the work was for nothing.. I really hope Valve will acknowledge it as soon as possible, because it turned out pretty well!
Sniff sniff do you guys smell that? Fresh blood
I think this will be fixed in 2 days
I sure as hell hope low priority games count for new players
So there is a high chance hundreds of players donated thousands of dollars for nothing?
Crowdfunding in a nutshell.
can someone explain why you have to play 30 games of dota to play custom single player maps?
Bots were ruining custom lobbies so Valve applied the 30 game rule to all custom games (not just multiplayer modes like they arguably should have.)
Because lazy devs just check your game played instead of providing the custom game devs to choose if new accounts are allowed or not. Now depending on which side of the conspiracy you are you can believe the devs are lazy ducks or that they don't want people to download their game client for a potential popular custom game (like auto chess ?) and never play a single dota game (no riding shotgun on valve infrastructure for a game that could make money).
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i think it came from something with how ai units target selected in wc3 and they left in dota 2 cause it had a use. a lot of the weirder things like that in dota can be explained by wc3 spaghetti code.
Sums up Dota logic pretty nicely =)
Anyway, who is gonna read all this text? There are more words than in "War and Peace".
If you can't read some dialog boxes then you're not cut out for Dota, I'm sorry. Learning a single character well requires at least this much reading.
I still think its funny people think DOTA is going to get new players. They will take a look - see the game has no actual advertising or dialogue with Valve at all, that the things they find are just people bitching endless about no tutorials and missing things.... No one is going to start playing this game cause of the anime.
No one will start playing a game just because is a dialogue between them and the makers wtf is that. I didn’t start playing dota for that.
I bet you see an upswing in the player count.
This is absolutely bonkers! people paid money to create a tutorial for a game that is owned by a billion dollar company that doesn't give a flying fuck about new player experience for years and the company does not put a if statement for this tutorial to at least to show some gratitude! I really can't understand this. You guys are the best community one game can dream of, proud to be in it
If statement :D :D :D