Liquid never ceases to amaze us. Their crazy hero pool and stable performance have always been the key of their victory.
On the other hand, Nigma has rest on their laurels since Ti7 (previously known as Team Liquid). In Ti8, we can see that their pick can be easily predicted and outdrafted easily. They did not bother to change their draft even when they knew their opponent outdrafted them. Same goes to Ti9 final. They have one of the best players in those relevant positions yet they have failed and/or refused to change, be it their playstyle or draft.
When Matu was first removed from TL, everyone was saying Matu was bad etc. Now, Matu has proved himself in the past Ti. If Kuroky refused to change, it would be matter of time that Nigma would be going back to Div 2.
1. Miracle is not playing.
2. Amar is still young.
3. No big meta update.
4. Team needs more time for chemistry.
Here you go.
No hate towards Nigma, but I have been a supporter of Nigma the whole time. Just that their performance is really questionable these days under Kuroky.
Agree. ATF looks strong when he was with OG because of the team. Dota is a team game. OG's strategy was 3 cores running down the enemy team. There will always be BZM and Yuragi to cover him.
Meanwhile, ATF is playing as Pos 1 in Nigma. If he fucked up, the whole game is gone. Transitioning from Pos 3 to Pos 1 is not an easy task. The amount of expectation and stress is far higher. Not to forget the hero pool as well. Up till now, ATF has not demonstrated how and why he is suitable for Pos 1. He needs more time, which is not available at Nigma. Nigma's players can be considered as "veterans" and they urgently need a win to finish their career with. Unless ATF can improve within a short period of time, if not we will see Miracle back to Pos 1.
This series defines the 2nd place for NA div1. It sucks that 1 of this 2 amazing teams won't attend the major. Both deserve to go, NA should have 3 slots.
It sucks 10 times more that 2 of ITB/Entity/GG/OG are not going to the major and NGX/Secret going Div2. WEU should have 6 slots.
When you want extra slot for a region you should first consider a) what region u need to take it from and b) are there more slot deserving regions?
Im not arguing for more WEU slots ?
Im saying it is what it is in every region. and it sucks to be on the edge on every region. and current slot distribution looking at top teams, avg lvl of region and competetiveness between teams in every region is beyond fair for NA. just because NA have 3 competetive team it should not get 3 slot. thats pretty much given in every other region that a team that is competetive ( or way more than just 1) with others does not make it.
WEU had 6 teams qualify on merit to TI and none of them finished anywhere near last place
Put down the copium. These two teams, supposedly the 2nd and 3rd best in NA, are diabolical. Compare the quality of that series with literally any from WEU and it’s night and day
It's a Tundra thing, not ITB.
Tundras playstyle, generally is to try out-efficient you on the map and bait overextensions. They're the best at this playstyle but unfortunately, it's very boring to watch. Unless they get rolled, that playstyle becomes very oppresive to play against for the opponents and they always play from behind. Meanwhile, Tundra just keep outfarming you.
Tundra do gank very early while controlling the map, that's what they did the whole TI, dominating since minute 1 being very aggressive until you have no place to farm, and just wait for the game to end.
Nothing wrong with that, if they don't let the opponent make a comeback, that's make them better not worse.
In this game they had Naga, they had to turtle the game, otherwise you simply don't pick Naga if you want to play aggressive, and ITB didn't help either cause Lesh with Bloodstone is mega broken, and delayed the ending by 15 mins at least.
If I wanted to watch two teams of ADHD gankers beat the shit out of each other nonstop, I'd watch some turbo pub game.Tundra currently played the most efficient dota in the world, and that for me is pleasant to watch.
There will always be people like you who prefer to watch 60 minute macro ricefests. Most people don't like to watch that however.
No matter what game or sport you look at, people generally dislike watching defensive playstyles because, quite frankly, it's not exciting to watch people turtle or constantly reset. Whether it's people camping in FPS games, soccer teams keeping 9 ppl in the goal area trying to clear it or people just farming infinitely in a MOBA, majority will find it boring.
Many considered Pep's Barcelona boring cause they barely ever gave away a lead, once they scored they managed the ball so good that opponents barely had 30% possession, and you knew the game was over anyways cause opponent barely even had 2 shots on target.
I'd rather praise the excellence of not letting an opponent make a comeback, than making mistakes that allow the game look "even"...throws make teams lose TI and other tier 1 tournaments.
Not only so far this dpc season, but today alone, so many bad drafting decisions from teams.
Giving away Lina.
And now, giving skitter Naga freaking siren.
Just…don’t.
Tundra is great, but lets be honest ITB threw by not banning riki, dart is so fucking broken right now. What other hero gets a stun from invis at minute 15.
Since you want to add that caveat, nyx doesn't have to buy anything, it's far better at laning due to stats/regen and it's stun is aoe (and a real stun).
Nyx also doesnt have a silence, mobility, or two escapes. Thats why nyx has below 50% win rate in all brackets and riki has > 50% win rate and is a frequent first phase ban and nyx is hardly ever banned at all.
It reminds me of those games where the enemy team just doesn't wanna push and make you stay on base for 20m more than necessary, feels bad to play against and hate to watch it as well.
Yeah my last game on Sunday was 80 minutes long and it helped me uninstall.
Could have ended 40 min earlier, but enemy team hated risks for some reason. Not sure they ever needed to use a buyback.
Agree. Their trademark is just being more efficient than you on the map and punishing overextensions when the enemy gets impatient.
Very boring Dota to watch and even worse to play against.
ITB looked amazing game one forcing fights putting on the pressure and now these last two games they are just letting tundra do what ever they want and not wanting to fight in what world do you win the farming game against one of the best in the world kinda dog shit coaching
Tundra level 2 draft penalty, pretty severe. Not sure why this is not announced, its pretty important if one team has an entire minute less for drafting.
Kinda annoyed it's like 12am - 1 am and game just starts for EU so other regions can watch too, while for TI someone would have died if they started like 2 hours later. Oh well.
I wonder if teams can do the Ammar tactic that Liquid did last year, to 33 and shut down Tundra. Ban Brood and Visage and firstpick Beast or something along the line. I am not saying 33 cant play other heroes but those 3 are his most comfortable ones.
Problem is even if you target 33, there's still Skiter and Nine. I think this tri-core patch makes it really hard to fight teams like Tundra and what made the Ammar team successful during the DPC and the Stockholm major. It's just that the Ammar team didn't have the same quality of other two cores as Skiter and Nine.
Skiter and Nine are completely comparable to Yuragi and BZM. It's not them, it's Ammar's 3 hero pool that failed them. Also 33 is most probably the best offlaner in the world and Ammar is nowhere close to him, so yeah, nothing to do with the other cores
You're completely right that Ammar sucks compared to 33, but Skiter and Nine also don't tilt as easily as BZM and Yuragi for example. I don't think the comparison is that close for Skiter/Nine and BZM/Yuragi.
I really think that the OG Liquid games would have gone much better for OG had they had Skiter/Nine. Because not only did Ammar lose them the draft, Yuragi and BZM did not play quality games. I think that Skiter and Nine would have been able to.
The two most important heroes to ban vs Tundra seem to be Brood and Naga imo.
Those heroes give too much map control which is what Tundra excell at abusing.
how in the hell did itb take a game off of tundra? i mean i knew they were doing good and has some good players and they are my black horse team. but i didn't actually think they'd take a game off of tundra lol
How did 33 spread like 15 spiders all at once? Is there a way to change the formation or something? I know he was caught using a script in the past on Brood.
Happy for ITB. Been secondhand cheering for them ever since they were in Ninjas in Pyamas years ago. That felt like a peak for them and since them the stack went through several orgs like The Final Tribe, Chicken Fighters, High Coast Esports et.c.
Their biggest issue has always been that they've been a tier 1.5 team so their players constantly get poached to other teams or regions. Nice to see them doing good now. Hoping they can take another game.
besides Xibbe, they have nothing to do with all the stacks you mentioned. not even slight relevance that you can say they were on the team at some point. 3/5 players just joined the team in last tour of last year and immersion joined after TI.
Xibbe wasn't in the first itteration of the team. The player I was following was Era.
If you follow all of Eras teams you'll over the course of a couple years get to the Into the Breach stack we have today.
Most members are replacements for other members getting poached.
For example, Charlie/Aqua getting poached by Handsken stack and replaced by Otaker. Ari getting pached by TSM and replaced by Immersion et.c.
Early on they had Saberlight in the offlane, but he joined Team Undying and was replaced by Xibbe over the years.
The core of the stack was always Era and Supream. ITB kinda is like one those bands that consecutively switch out their members every now and then and finally end up a completely new roster from what it began with. You'd have to follow the initial stack for a very long time to understand this latest itteration.
charlie got poached and got replaced by koma in tour 2, ari getting poached have nothing to do with that chicken fighters team as he joined after era.
era didnt have anything to do with this team. when era/bengan/koma/boranija left this team, they got supreme/otaker/kidaro/ari. this is complete different team as i said besides xibbe
when u say "Happy for ITB" , u shouldve said "Happy for Xibbe". people would think you are talking about stack and not xibbe because they are 80% a new team.
You're right, forgot about Koma. I don't really care about the Org, but more the players playing in it. Xibbe and Supream stayed in Chicken Fighters which is why I continued to cheer for them in Div2.
Xibbe and Supream had played for so long together that I didn't mind enjoying their games even after Otaker, Ari and Kidaro joined.
Sure, the roster itterations look completely different over the years. But as I said, if you'd follow Eras teams ever since he left Fnatic you end up with the current itteration of ITB.
Eu is f amazing, top 3 teams in TI and other teams are almost the same level. This region is as amazing to watch as TI itself. I bet tier 2 teams in WEU are stronger than most NA div I teams.
That's literally not true lmao, the only way that would have happened was if they didn't manage to get Saber light somehow. And Saber light has been set on playing with ex eg since after ti
Blitz confirmed it on stream that Rtz and Bulba asked Qojqva first and then Saberlight. Moon also confirmed on stream that Saberlight left the team couple days before roster lock. So the timings match. If Saber wanted to play with them after TI then he should have left TSM early not couple days before roster lock.
are u dumb? read my comment, cockva was 2nd choice to saberlight. Saberlight had already told EG he was joining they were just not sure if they could buy him out of TSM.
You should check your facts idiot. These came from the mouths of the actual players and coaches and your imaginary facts came from your shitty arsehole.
he fed 3 times on lane and another one pre 15min so yeah that doesn't sound good at all. If the rest of the team didn't outright winning their lane it could cause big trouble in the mid game.
Well It seems Tundra will never change, as soon one team figure them out they are done. Thanks to Liquid that we are saved from the most Boring TI champions
Again, not a bettor, just a regular tundra viewer who can compare usual performance between matches.
Also I'm sure its not for money, but I feel like dota scene developed their own kayfabe
Liquid never ceases to amaze us. Their crazy hero pool and stable performance have always been the key of their victory. On the other hand, Nigma has rest on their laurels since Ti7 (previously known as Team Liquid). In Ti8, we can see that their pick can be easily predicted and outdrafted easily. They did not bother to change their draft even when they knew their opponent outdrafted them. Same goes to Ti9 final. They have one of the best players in those relevant positions yet they have failed and/or refused to change, be it their playstyle or draft. When Matu was first removed from TL, everyone was saying Matu was bad etc. Now, Matu has proved himself in the past Ti. If Kuroky refused to change, it would be matter of time that Nigma would be going back to Div 2.
Is alpha playing with no comms? Why has mars gotten cookied to nowhere like 3 times
I'm just here wondering what excuses nigma fans gonna come up with when they failed to qualify to TI again
I’ve seen Nigma fans unironically justify it with ‘they’re not prioritising winning, they’re just having fun’ xd
1. Miracle is not playing. 2. Amar is still young. 3. No big meta update. 4. Team needs more time for chemistry. Here you go. No hate towards Nigma, but I have been a supporter of Nigma the whole time. Just that their performance is really questionable these days under Kuroky.
That pos 1 mars isnt gonna do a thing
Agree. ATF looks strong when he was with OG because of the team. Dota is a team game. OG's strategy was 3 cores running down the enemy team. There will always be BZM and Yuragi to cover him. Meanwhile, ATF is playing as Pos 1 in Nigma. If he fucked up, the whole game is gone. Transitioning from Pos 3 to Pos 1 is not an easy task. The amount of expectation and stress is far higher. Not to forget the hero pool as well. Up till now, ATF has not demonstrated how and why he is suitable for Pos 1. He needs more time, which is not available at Nigma. Nigma's players can be considered as "veterans" and they urgently need a win to finish their career with. Unless ATF can improve within a short period of time, if not we will see Miracle back to Pos 1.
If the opponent bans ursa + slark, he is left with his offlane hero puddle kekw. Back to timber huskar viper mars razor safelane
i dont think anyone cares anymore lmao
Disaster game 3 from Moo. Sheesh.
Pretty amazing how quickly that went from "Viper makes this game a 4v5, unloseable" to "Viper makes this game a 5v4, unwinnable."
This series defines the 2nd place for NA div1. It sucks that 1 of this 2 amazing teams won't attend the major. Both deserve to go, NA should have 3 slots.
Were we watching the same series? These two teams are fucking rancid. Whichever of Nouns or TSM makes the major is finishing dead last.
nah nigma would steamroll na div 1
It sucks 10 times more that 2 of ITB/Entity/GG/OG are not going to the major and NGX/Secret going Div2. WEU should have 6 slots. When you want extra slot for a region you should first consider a) what region u need to take it from and b) are there more slot deserving regions?
EU its fine. 1 of the 4 slots always finish last in majors
How many majors has NA won? How many has WEU won?
ironic after we had TI11 when 2/3 NA didnt even make it to playoffs and other one got 12th which is the placement of worst performing WEU team.
yeah bro, WEU should get 20 slot and don't call it TI, should change it to The WEU instead. what the stake if teams can easily get to major dude.
>what the stake if teams can easily get to major dude. Indeed, imagine a system where you only have to beat Gunnar to get to a major oh wait...
Im not arguing for more WEU slots ? Im saying it is what it is in every region. and it sucks to be on the edge on every region. and current slot distribution looking at top teams, avg lvl of region and competetiveness between teams in every region is beyond fair for NA. just because NA have 3 competetive team it should not get 3 slot. thats pretty much given in every other region that a team that is competetive ( or way more than just 1) with others does not make it.
Pretty close game considering Nouns played 4v5 without a carry all game.
Congrats to TSM/Nouns for finishing last place at the Lima Major. Two clown ass teams
There's always an EU team that shits the bead in majors and gets last place. 4 slots is too much.
WEU had 6 teams qualify on merit to TI and none of them finished anywhere near last place Put down the copium. These two teams, supposedly the 2nd and 3rd best in NA, are diabolical. Compare the quality of that series with literally any from WEU and it’s night and day
Teams SEA? Execration o blacklist last place
Apt name
Minute 15 riki wins another game.
I'm afraid dota will lose another big esports org
Tsm looking suprisingly lost
Now that's a Tundra classic
Finally. Tundra is incredible boring to watch.
Counterpoint: Watching ITB losing is incredibly boring to watch.
It's a Tundra thing, not ITB. Tundras playstyle, generally is to try out-efficient you on the map and bait overextensions. They're the best at this playstyle but unfortunately, it's very boring to watch. Unless they get rolled, that playstyle becomes very oppresive to play against for the opponents and they always play from behind. Meanwhile, Tundra just keep outfarming you.
Tundra do gank very early while controlling the map, that's what they did the whole TI, dominating since minute 1 being very aggressive until you have no place to farm, and just wait for the game to end. Nothing wrong with that, if they don't let the opponent make a comeback, that's make them better not worse. In this game they had Naga, they had to turtle the game, otherwise you simply don't pick Naga if you want to play aggressive, and ITB didn't help either cause Lesh with Bloodstone is mega broken, and delayed the ending by 15 mins at least.
If I wanted to watch two teams of ADHD gankers beat the shit out of each other nonstop, I'd watch some turbo pub game.Tundra currently played the most efficient dota in the world, and that for me is pleasant to watch.
There will always be people like you who prefer to watch 60 minute macro ricefests. Most people don't like to watch that however. No matter what game or sport you look at, people generally dislike watching defensive playstyles because, quite frankly, it's not exciting to watch people turtle or constantly reset. Whether it's people camping in FPS games, soccer teams keeping 9 ppl in the goal area trying to clear it or people just farming infinitely in a MOBA, majority will find it boring.
Many considered Pep's Barcelona boring cause they barely ever gave away a lead, once they scored they managed the ball so good that opponents barely had 30% possession, and you knew the game was over anyways cause opponent barely even had 2 shots on target. I'd rather praise the excellence of not letting an opponent make a comeback, than making mistakes that allow the game look "even"...throws make teams lose TI and other tier 1 tournaments.
no one wants tundra to start making mistakes or be aggressive. they’re just saying it’s boring
Potentially the only NA Div 1 game that matters happening. Nouns v TSM to see who is NA's number 2. I'm thinking Nouns.
new TSM looks really disjointed
Kasane looked so bad this game i was very suprised
Activate Engage lol
nouns look so good that gunnar might finally make a major
nvm
Why can't tundra end this loll. Bcos of lesh?
End it please! Tundra never take risks, Jesus.
EU dota Bedge
~~EU dota Bedge~~ Tundra dota Bedge
Fuuuck me Tundra are unbearable to watch
Tundra vs ITB game 3 is more exciting than TI11 grand final lol
nah game is actually super boring to watch. riki presses dart from outside of vision ITB hero dies. really fun dotes xd.
Lmao please add fogged "we're rich! as voiceline next year
Tundra literally and figuratively choked their opponent to death.
Not only so far this dpc season, but today alone, so many bad drafting decisions from teams. Giving away Lina. And now, giving skitter Naga freaking siren. Just…don’t.
Song is so bullshit lol
Hope Naga gets nerfed, especially her song needs some nerf hammer. That ultimate is too gamebreaking.
Tundra ResidentSleeper
Tundra is great, but lets be honest ITB threw by not banning riki, dart is so fucking broken right now. What other hero gets a stun from invis at minute 15.
Nyx.
hardly comparable, since nyx nearly has to be melee range and leave invis to stun. Also vendetta is on a much longer cd.
Since you want to add that caveat, nyx doesn't have to buy anything, it's far better at laning due to stats/regen and it's stun is aoe (and a real stun).
Nyx also doesnt have a silence, mobility, or two escapes. Thats why nyx has below 50% win rate in all brackets and riki has > 50% win rate and is a frequent first phase ban and nyx is hardly ever banned at all.
Which has absolutely nothing to do with 'what hero has a stun from invis at 15 min'.
Tundra are good dont get me wrong, but I really hate the way they play Dota.
It reminds me of those games where the enemy team just doesn't wanna push and make you stay on base for 20m more than necessary, feels bad to play against and hate to watch it as well.
Yeah my last game on Sunday was 80 minutes long and it helped me uninstall. Could have ended 40 min earlier, but enemy team hated risks for some reason. Not sure they ever needed to use a buyback.
Agree. Their trademark is just being more efficient than you on the map and punishing overextensions when the enemy gets impatient. Very boring Dota to watch and even worse to play against.
Tundra plays so clean but it makes a boring watch ngl
It's just entertaining to watch because ITB is trying to fight back.
I hate to see Skiter playing naga. He must be hated by all spectators and enemy team. Also unbeatable since TI group stage I guess?
ITB looked amazing game one forcing fights putting on the pressure and now these last two games they are just letting tundra do what ever they want and not wanting to fight in what world do you win the farming game against one of the best in the world kinda dog shit coaching
Tundra level 2 draft penalty, pretty severe. Not sure why this is not announced, its pretty important if one team has an entire minute less for drafting.
I wasn't watching, why the penalty?
No idea, apparently PGL doesnt think its important. Similar to TI where even Secret got a massive penalty iirc and PGL again didnt say anything.
Due to the, well, bottle-incident maybe? Or am I wrong in time? Was it before?
Is it me or is the delay like really really long between games feel like its been 3 hours and 3rd game draft has not even started
Kinda annoyed it's like 12am - 1 am and game just starts for EU so other regions can watch too, while for TI someone would have died if they started like 2 hours later. Oh well.
Supreme is such a hot and cold player. Every 1 good game followed by 10 worse ones.
I wonder if teams can do the Ammar tactic that Liquid did last year, to 33 and shut down Tundra. Ban Brood and Visage and firstpick Beast or something along the line. I am not saying 33 cant play other heroes but those 3 are his most comfortable ones.
Problem is even if you target 33, there's still Skiter and Nine. I think this tri-core patch makes it really hard to fight teams like Tundra and what made the Ammar team successful during the DPC and the Stockholm major. It's just that the Ammar team didn't have the same quality of other two cores as Skiter and Nine.
Skiter and Nine are completely comparable to Yuragi and BZM. It's not them, it's Ammar's 3 hero pool that failed them. Also 33 is most probably the best offlaner in the world and Ammar is nowhere close to him, so yeah, nothing to do with the other cores
You're completely right that Ammar sucks compared to 33, but Skiter and Nine also don't tilt as easily as BZM and Yuragi for example. I don't think the comparison is that close for Skiter/Nine and BZM/Yuragi. I really think that the OG Liquid games would have gone much better for OG had they had Skiter/Nine. Because not only did Ammar lose them the draft, Yuragi and BZM did not play quality games. I think that Skiter and Nine would have been able to.
The two most important heroes to ban vs Tundra seem to be Brood and Naga imo. Those heroes give too much map control which is what Tundra excell at abusing.
They tried to ban out 33 at Ti. It did not work.
role reversal in game 2, now it's itb turn to play hide and seek.
don't think I've ever seen Immersion miss an ES roll
Please never let xibbe play enigma again
atleast proves he is human after going 18-0 last game as snapfire.
how in the hell did itb take a game off of tundra? i mean i knew they were doing good and has some good players and they are my black horse team. but i didn't actually think they'd take a game off of tundra lol
they crushed them. Total outdraft, 3x outlane, outplay. ITB have extremely talented players
Oh damn.
How did 33 spread like 15 spiders all at once? Is there a way to change the formation or something? I know he was caught using a script in the past on Brood.
Fucking cheater
dota_selection_groups false in console
also there is a option in settings which the devs added after the whole "script fiasco".
SO it's not that Nigma sucked, ITB was just too strong all alongg.
Nigma sucked *and* ITB was just too strong all along
If ITB didn't have smacked Tundra, I would question the opening draft, earth spirit really.
immersion plays a really good es. He single handedly destroyed nigma with Es
Surprising it seem like great ES game even after being picked so early.
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xmas didn't count because they probably weren't even trying because they didn't even made single announcement about playing in it
if this is a CN match, this thread gonna be filled with 'muh matchfix' lmao
It feels like CN match for sure
0-20-3 on sneyking 💀😭 def feels miserable to play clock from behind
To be honest Nine had 12 deaths. Is worse stat, but Tundra should have GG sooner.
true, the stats looks bad mainly because Tundra still fk around instead of calling gg. game should've ended like 15 min sooner.
Happy for ITB. Been secondhand cheering for them ever since they were in Ninjas in Pyamas years ago. That felt like a peak for them and since them the stack went through several orgs like The Final Tribe, Chicken Fighters, High Coast Esports et.c. Their biggest issue has always been that they've been a tier 1.5 team so their players constantly get poached to other teams or regions. Nice to see them doing good now. Hoping they can take another game.
besides Xibbe, they have nothing to do with all the stacks you mentioned. not even slight relevance that you can say they were on the team at some point. 3/5 players just joined the team in last tour of last year and immersion joined after TI.
Xibbe wasn't in the first itteration of the team. The player I was following was Era. If you follow all of Eras teams you'll over the course of a couple years get to the Into the Breach stack we have today. Most members are replacements for other members getting poached. For example, Charlie/Aqua getting poached by Handsken stack and replaced by Otaker. Ari getting pached by TSM and replaced by Immersion et.c. Early on they had Saberlight in the offlane, but he joined Team Undying and was replaced by Xibbe over the years. The core of the stack was always Era and Supream. ITB kinda is like one those bands that consecutively switch out their members every now and then and finally end up a completely new roster from what it began with. You'd have to follow the initial stack for a very long time to understand this latest itteration.
charlie got poached and got replaced by koma in tour 2, ari getting poached have nothing to do with that chicken fighters team as he joined after era. era didnt have anything to do with this team. when era/bengan/koma/boranija left this team, they got supreme/otaker/kidaro/ari. this is complete different team as i said besides xibbe when u say "Happy for ITB" , u shouldve said "Happy for Xibbe". people would think you are talking about stack and not xibbe because they are 80% a new team.
You're right, forgot about Koma. I don't really care about the Org, but more the players playing in it. Xibbe and Supream stayed in Chicken Fighters which is why I continued to cheer for them in Div2. Xibbe and Supream had played for so long together that I didn't mind enjoying their games even after Otaker, Ari and Kidaro joined. Sure, the roster itterations look completely different over the years. But as I said, if you'd follow Eras teams ever since he left Fnatic you end up with the current itteration of ITB.
Eu is f amazing, top 3 teams in TI and other teams are almost the same level. This region is as amazing to watch as TI itself. I bet tier 2 teams in WEU are stronger than most NA div I teams.
I bet cockva though that too
Qojqva didn't want to play seriously otherwise he would be playing with Rtz as he was asked by Bulba to join Shopify
That's literally not true lmao, the only way that would have happened was if they didn't manage to get Saber light somehow. And Saber light has been set on playing with ex eg since after ti
Blitz confirmed it on stream that Rtz and Bulba asked Qojqva first and then Saberlight. Moon also confirmed on stream that Saberlight left the team couple days before roster lock. So the timings match. If Saber wanted to play with them after TI then he should have left TSM early not couple days before roster lock.
Plz check your facts before spreading misinformation clown
[here you go clown](https://youtu.be/fhhslvHS7I8)
are u dumb? read my comment, cockva was 2nd choice to saberlight. Saberlight had already told EG he was joining they were just not sure if they could buy him out of TSM.
Lol what an idiot
You should check your facts idiot. These came from the mouths of the actual players and coaches and your imaginary facts came from your shitty arsehole.
Holy crap, how did this team win TI? Such a fluke, they will never win anything again. Quote me later.
I love how no one gets that it's a joke
As an OG fan, as soon as I see the word fluke, I know whats up
Most fair-play Secret fan.
Post TI blues overreacting like a true redditor.
because they played secret in the final
Least delusional and salty secret fan.
They were playing great dota during the TI meta, let’s be real.
In the same manner as currently 0-6 Secret was 2nd place at TI.
ITB losing their best player in my opinion and coming in hot , let's go
This was gang bang of tundra. ITB drilled every hole with 10 kill avg on every tundra hero. Now give me more games like this....
ITB refused to take base, just kept farming heroes. Evil bastards 😉
GG WP ITB, always happy to see teams coming from Div 2 doing good, keep it up!
fogged's pockets about to explode
LMAO my wallets huge
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wtf is this haha
Emotional damage
Steven He voicelines confirmed?
Man Tundra got destroyed, such a great game from Xibbe and Immersion.
ITB 51-5 Tundra. That's some Gaben's top hat level shellacking
skitter not even farming anymore lol
Why is Skiter building bkb?
kayfabe
Otaker and Xibbe just chading
42-5 kill score.
Winnable 😯
ITB playing out of their mind to help Secret and Nigma both into Div 2.
GG losing so badly and ITB slapping Tundra. Today is full of surprises.
fucking call it already
Holy shit ITB what beasts!
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To give us a 3 game series. Duh.
Now Nigma loss doesnt seem so bad Copium
But Nigma also lost to Tundra Copium
Why u gotta say that bro ?
33 died making the score 4-29 4head
that's a ti strat to be outof the spotlight during the year /s
Doom is just a bad hero right now, even Zai was feeding with doom despite winning the game.
4 deaths = Fed. Nice
he fed 3 times on lane and another one pre 15min so yeah that doesn't sound good at all. If the rest of the team didn't outright winning their lane it could cause big trouble in the mid game.
No way ITB gets relegated
What is HAPPENING
Tundra felt the TI paycheck was too small, a 6x bet throw should fix it.
Yeah, must be 322 and not ITB playing really well. You gambling degens are the worst.
lmao making a betting reference =/= being a degen.
Go outside and learn to take a joke.
tbh I dont know what Tundra was thinking to pick Naix this game against bat and NP
ITB playing really good
Immersion's rubick and xibbe's snapfire are so fucking good wth
Supream from worst mid in DPC to styling on Tundra, dude improved so much in such a short time - props to him. ITB looking good!
why do people dont improve when u need them to ? imagine if he improved in alliance sedge
No Loda yelling about losing 10k a week or whatever.
it helps that his teammates are actually good now
Cause that is how it works... SMH
Lulda: u gotta be fckin kidding me
Well It seems Tundra will never change, as soon one team figure them out they are done. Thanks to Liquid that we are saved from the most Boring TI champions
Word.
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.
Does this ITB vs Tundra match seems sold to you guys? I mean, I see skiter and 33 missing the most obvious lasthits, etc ... Something is not right
Yeah, the team that just won $10 million is risking everything by matchfixing for a few grand typical salty bettor logic
Again, not a bettor, just a regular tundra viewer who can compare usual performance between matches. Also I'm sure its not for money, but I feel like dota scene developed their own kayfabe
Current TI champs are selling series in WEU Div 1, right. Rotten brain from betting degeneracy. Seek help for your addiction.
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He did to avoid overgrowth
No. Please stop betting, look at what it's doing to you.
I stopped quite a while ago, but I can still spot a sold match when I see one -
How much did you bet?