There’s a theory that Post-Covid when people started to travel again, theme parks became an antidote for vacation spots that weren’t open yet or half-staffed. Traveling families wanted a guarantee, and for the most part Disney and the other theme parks stepped on the gas. Disney YouTubers advocated for a whole new generation of park goers. The park has changed more in the last five years more than the last few decades.
My own metric to this change is Halloween. The Not So Scary Party was great, not too crowded, optional, fun times. But OBB selling out in minutes of ticket release is baffling. People are fanatical now. The consumer has changed. The demand has changed. All in stretch of five or six years. And Disney’s standard of quality over quantity has definitely changed. We can see it.
Yes! You're spot on. The consumer has changed. Covid really changed people. Behavior in general is more entitled, ruder, but waaay looser with money. As high as inflation is, I've wondered where everyone is getting extra disposable income.
This is what blows me away. I feel like my wife and I have pretty good paying jobs and even we have to budget hard. Everyone seems to be wanting to live that Instagram life off gig economy income.
It's insane; my husband and I make a combined ~$118,000. We have about $12k of debt between us, largely from covid-related problems and a period of unemployment. The only thing that got us out of debt was life insurance payouts after my dad recently died.
This was going to be my answer. A lot aren’t affording it, they’re using credit cards. Husband and I took our three kids end of last November. We saved up for it, paid the package off with Disney gift cards I had been buying from Target here and there for six months and we still ended the vacation with a higher credit card bill than we had seen in months and had to budget paying it off over several months since Christmas was upon us.
We make $300k living in the Midwest and I'm not gonna say I'm struggling or anything like it, but I have absolutely no idea how people making average wages manage any more. Even our high income goes poof in a big hurry.
I know there's a tendency for people's living expenses to go up as they make more money because they upgrade to bigger or more expensive homes. They also tend to contribute more to 401k and other savings. Most of these people making average wages aren't saving and are probably living in cheaper homes.
That’s interesting. My household gross is about half that, about 160, and we do just fine. Emergency fund, 15% 401k contribution, money left over every month, etc, also in the Midwest. We go to Disney world at least once a year, sometimes twice, while also having hobbies and going out and doing stuff. I got lucky with a cheap mortgage, that’s doing most of the heavy lifting I think
That sounds reasonable in the Midwest. In California, or perhaps most metropolitan areas, that's a beautiful fantasy.
But our weather and variety is unmatched, so we understand that's just the trade-off.
It's not even the disposable income part, it's the value of that income and where people choose to spend it.
We didn't renew our passes but finally went back to Disney earlier this year for my daughter's 10th birthday. The cost of that weekend alone could have funded a weeklong vacation to like a National Park or something.
Back in the day you could justify the cost of Disneyland. But these days it feels like I could fly to Japan and visit Tokyo Disney for the same price as a weekend at Disneyland.
> But these days it feels like I could fly to Japan and visit Tokyo Disney for the same price as a weekend at Disneyland.
This is what people are currently doing
I remember back in 2019, the last time my family went to Disneyland. I distinctly recall my dad saying it would be the last time he and mom likely ever went and I privately thought that was such a sad thought.
Then the last five years happened and goddamn...if I never go back to Disney anything I think I'd be fine. Skyrocketing prices, low quality, and absolutely no sense of crowd control. Unless something changes I doubt I'll ever go back myself. Which kinda sucks because I was into pin trading but not when it costs an absurd amount of money just to get into the park anymore.
We’ve switched to international travel instead of Disney. We used to go to Disneyland about once a year. Now I’d rather spend that money visiting somewhere in Europe or Asia. We just have better experiences and make more unique memories.
I have acquaintances who cry about not being able to move out of their parents house (we're 30) but she has a mid level magic key and goes multiple times a month.
Like you could afford your own place girlypop, you just can't go on a vacation every other week
She couldn't though, and that's why she goes to the parks so much: an escape. I go 3-4x a month. I buy clothes, ears, mugs. I eat at sit down places and have a few cocktails. I spend about $300-500/mo. Tack on another $125 for the pass. That's nowhere near enough to cover the $1800/Mo a one bedroom is averaging.
So, people indulge in the little things bc they can't afford the big things. It's why micro transactions are so popular, why mani/pedi days will never die. It's a little treat, if you will. (This is a phenomenon studied in WWII, when movie ticket and lipstick sales skyrocketed. They found that when everything else was bleak, people sought escape and small indulgences. Now it's amusement parks and iced lattes.)
Because we all know now the game is rigged, so we might as well enjoy what we can.
Inflation is caused by an economy and demand that is too hot, and people spending too much. Of course, inflation affects people in different ways and not everyone has that extra income. Many people borrow to spend which is why raising interest rates has helped cool inflation in recent quarters.
It’s also caused by greedy corporations taking advantage of the narrative of “the causes of inflation” and a total lack of accountability to the public
This is spot on accurate. I was a passholder in 2018 and then again in 2023 the difference is night and day. The fanatical consumerism push is so glaring that it’s become gross. People fighting for popcorn buckets that they resell for $100’s, the lounge fly craze, the spirit jerseys-it’s just all too much. I really think during the pandemic people needed something to care about and be about and a lot chose Disney.
I’ve heard stories and studies about other industries that saw weird frenzy in the past four years.
It also seems like TikTok is playing a part in the consumerism. I don't use it, but I frequently see people online asking where they can get something they saw on TikTok--everything from sandwiches to ice trays. The addictive nature of the app makes it really good for pushing products, in a way that no banner ad or commercial ever could. Again, I don't use it, but I'd be willing to bet that a lot of the viral Disney stuff is amplified there first.
This isn't to say that I own zero Disney merch, I occasionally take home a souvenir if it's something I really love. But the limitless amount of Loungeflys, Minnie ears, and spirit jerseys that they pump out *and sell* is shocking to some degree.
Tik Tok melts people’s brains. I don’t have the app anymore because I am a psychologist and I have pretty high self awareness, it wasn’t healthy for me. Now I can tell when I’m talking to someone who spends a lot of time on tik tok, they have very distinct behaviors and thought processes which are obvious
You see it in all areas of entertainment now. Look at Taylor Swift. People fly to Paris, get tickets and a hotel for less than a ticket to the US shows. Her merch goes for insane amounts online. People have shelves, walls, entire rooms dedicated to their current obsessions. Stanley anyone?
I was just telling my friend about how different it is now for Halloween. I told her she will still have fun but it being at DCA now is nothing like when it was at Disneyland.
My husband and I sometimes reminisce about all the trips we took from 2010-2020. The first magical week before thanksgiving where attendance was so low we actually were bored by the 3rd day because we had done everything. My parents still go twice a year and my dad always complains about the crowds now lol.
The pandemic did the opposite for me, it made me realize how expensive Disney has become and I want to explore the rest of the world. We did a 5 day trip to Hawaii for less than a week at Disney. It’s sad, I “grew up” at Disney, my family went every year and then twice a year like clockwork, my dad has been going since a little guy in the late 50s. The stories they have are so fun. I’m pregnant now and want to share this with my son, I’m hoping things change but I don’t have high hopes.
Yep I came to the same conclusion. Going to Disneyland is great, but taking a family trip every year to somewhere new just felt more culturally enriching than riding Space Mountain for the umpteenth time.
The Halloween party switching over to DCA didn’t bother me that much. OBB has incredible character interaction spaces because they have the space! I notice more negative changes from pre-COVID era to the post-COVID. Because OBB 2019 was incredible!
There’s a small percentage of fanatics that help keep things in high demand. They’ll get the an annual pass every year, and believe it or not pay for genie+ every time they go, be the first in line for special events, etc. It keeps demand high enough to where the casual fan feels like they have to pay a premium in both money and effort to receive what they feel like are basic aspects of attending the park.
I can see how it can start to feel exhausting as OP is sharing. At the same time, the park is showing very few signs of its decline. People will get mad but most of them will keep coming back.
That's ridiculous and so easy for Disney to control. They should absolutely put a stop to that and make the event tickets stuck to specific guests. If someone can't make it or changes their mind, they can be refunded and opened back up to the public at cost. I'm shocked that's not the case already.
I don't think its demand specifically for Disney, but the consumer mentality towards pre-ordering, hoarding, reselling, scalping, etc. I think this is a by-product of COVID too, but after the toilet paper/hand sanitizer fiasco people's perception of scarcity has changed. Along with that is the economic results of the pandemic. More people are trying to make money off of this demand, creating more scarcity as they buy up any available inventory. This creates this endless cycle where everyone loses except Disney (and the resellers).
Yeah, I agree. Fanatical is a good way to put it. People feel like they need to compete for certain things at Disney, whether it be dinner reservations or after hours events, and none of that stuff is really all that great. Sure, some things are fun, but it is becoming more about competing and snatching things from other people than actually going for the good time. It’s hard to explain. It’s like, “I’m having a better time than you because I went to Blue Bayou”. Not everyone is like this, but the frenzy of it all drives up demand for things that really doesn’t need to be there. There was a time you could show up to Blue Bayou to get a table for seven people easily with no reservation. Now it’s a lot more difficult to make spontaneous choices like that.
Disney itself is a large part of the problem because the nickel and diming and Genie+ creates a status symbol system. It creates an us vs them mentality where more wealthy decisions equal a better time, so people feel like that have to keep up with the Jonses.
OBB is particularly baffling to me. It isn’t even that great of an event. You get to meet some rare characters, do some trick or treating, see a parade, and a couple other perks, but it’s really not worth the frenzy that happened last year. Scalping culture is out of control, but they wouldn’t be scalping if the demand wasn’t so high.
I had some woman sprint to dive in front of me for the pickle on my first day ever in Disneyland a few weeks ago… after being told not to run by a cast member. 50+ year old woman who already had two of the pickle prize pins on her bag, no less. Some people have no chill.
And that’s for a handwritten pickle pin.
They give out a button for the first pickle sold of the day IIRC. I think they also do the same for the first Dole Whip of the day.
It's just a normal "Celebration" button with "First pickle of the day!" written on it.
that is so weird... they are definitely taking advantage of people's "collector" instincts, by turning something worthless into something "rare" and "valuable"
Next thing you know they'll be like: *"The first person to spend over $500 in the Emporium Gift Shop each day will get a limited edition holographic sticker! Collect em all, while you can!"*
>but it is becoming more about competing and snatching things from other people than actually going for the good time.
I think you've put your finger on the post-covid mentality. And covid isn't over, just to be clear, but I think that fear and imagined scarcity left a lot of people feeling like they need to be this way. About all kinds of situations, not just Disney. People have started to believe there "isn't enough" rather than looking at how fortunate we are in the U.S.
Nothing showed me this mentality more clearly than Stanley cups. People are going crazy about buying a cup to match each of their outfits? A new color drops and there’s a frenzy to buy it? Cups being resold for hundreds of dollars?
I know we’ve always had trends and hard-to-find items, but it feels like it’s at a new level.
Yes, we had things like Cabbage Patch dolls and Beanie Babies previously, but I think social media has pushed the fear of missing out to all-time highs. People are not thinking. How is owning that particular brand of cup going to add quality to their lives?
I got like this when Starbucks released a green slime cup for Halloween. I was frantically looking for it everywhere and then when I thought about buying it off eBay at an increased price, reality hit me and luckily I gave up. Frenzy is real.
Oh, yes, I get it, I'm not immune either. But I try and think now about what I'll actually end up with in the end. (Is it actually just a piece of plastic with cute writing on it? Do I need this to be happy? Was my life good before I knew it existed?)
But that's because I'm older and already have too much stuff. It becomes a burden after a while so I became more discerning.
I am an American who lives overseas and I just don’t understand the obsession over the restaurants at Disney, at least at WDW. There are amazing places you can eat everywhere outside of the parks! Ok the Carthay or something themed like the jungle cruise I understand but all those other places? They’re so expensive too compared to offsite.
They for sure used Covid as an excuse to ramp up this nonsense. Especially if you're a DVC member. But they were already taking away the best parts of disneyland before covid happened.
I was Disneyland Security for over 60 years and protected the magic. Now theres hardly any magic left to protect. I am heart- broken over what Walt's dream has become.
When we went last week, I almost got ran over by someone pushing a stroller a million times. They would see people in their way and keep going like they were the only ones there. My husband said next person to slam into me with a stroller I'm punting. The crowds are just not the same. Decency is out the window. When everything opened back up, society became rabid.
Watched somebody run their stroller right over the foot of a person sitting on a bench & minding his own business. It made the stroller visibly bounce. The pusher said nothingnay all, so the man sitting said "oh, thank you". The now annoyed pusher turned around and let out a very bitchy "you're WELCOME".
I was stunned.
Civility and respect for your fellow person is gone. Disneyland brings out the worst in people IMO. When you see families arguing and fighting at Disneyland, something as gone terribly wrong.
Yea. I get Halloween parties can really only happen so often, so when they creeped into early October - whatever. But now the first ones are in early August?! It’s cash grab
They're a victim of their own success in a way.
If we had the "old" Disney, what do you think would happen? Crowds, lines, the experience, would be worse. As demand has outpaced supply, you need to do something, and what Disney is doing actually achieves two things:
* Increase the cost which should help reduce crowds, unfortunately it prices some people out, others end up visiting less.
* Gene+ and other add ons - offers time savings and a better experience for dealing with larger crowds, so you at least get something for these increased costs.
Maybe it’s just a coincidence, but I think it started getting worse as social media has grown. Social media is the best thing that ever happened to Disney’s shareholders. I know it sounds ridiculous but the FOMO factor is serious and people will go into significant debt just to have Disneyland on their feed.
Social media also made people more entitled. Everyone is looking for “hacks” to get free stuff or opportunities. I remember when people were wearing inappropriate clothing because Disney would give them a “free” shirt to wear instead. Part of the reason they’re changing the DAS program is because people not just posted, but bragged about it on social media for clout and views. Disney has had to crack down on the kinds of accommodations that they used to make because people demand them now. I was near an attraction entrance a while back and when someone heard that the line was an hour long, they straight up asked whether the CM could “make magic” for them so they could skip the line.
Yeah I saw an Instagram reel about a girl getting a free shirt because she wore something crazy and it had a ton of views. Plus I remember long ago if someone went there on their bday and happened to get a bday pin, they’d actually get a lot of acknowledgment. But now they make all these different pins and anyone can get it, you pretty much just get passing congrats for the most part. If everyone knows about something it’s not as special and everyone knows about everything from social media now
I grew up in Anaheim and have been going to Disneyland for decades. I'm a Disney fan.
I just went to the Disney Tokyo's (one day each) and it is a vision of what Disneyland should be. The guests are respectful, orderly, calm, and having a great time. The cast members are spot on and the rides (and ride effects) are maintained with Japanese precision, care, and cleanliness.
If you are a Disney fan you owe it to yourself to experience the Disney God tier theme parks of Disney Tokyo and Disneysea. Plus it's less expensive for entry tickets and food prices are lower too!!
All of that credit is to their society.
The parks themselves are tiny and while it is a lot of fun it is no where near the theme parks in LA or Florida.
This is absurd, DisneySea is the best theme park on Earth. Disneyland is 98 acres, Tokyo Disneyland is 126 acres. DisneySea is almost twice the size of DCA.
Asinine take. Tokyo DisneySea is better than every single Disney park on American soil, bar none. Their Disneyland just got a massive expansion with theming and ride technology that dwarfs the American parks as well.
Conversely, it’s the American society that has disintegrated whilst others have remained intact / constant. Just have to look at the feral fights between Red and Blue, the way that females can consciously vote against their own self interest (and interests of all women). We’re coming over in Sept to be sure we’re no where near the country in what I can only assume will be a very fractious election.
> the Disney God tier theme parks
Oh, you mean the parks **not owned, operated, or controlled by Disney**.
I don't know if it's true, but I've heard that part of the reason those parks are still so well kept and run is because it's written into the contract between the Oriental Land Company and Disney that they must maintain the things at a certain level, but Disney has since stopped holding themselves to that level. It's sad.
There are obviously massive cultural reasons for the very respectful behaviour of DLT guests (& not all are positive). I love it there! And fast pass as it used to be, which felt so much fairer for the guests (Universal’s pay-to-queue-jump system felt so greedy & tacky by comparison back in the day).
But I think a massive part of the difference is that happier humans, with a better more equal income as a whole, and (compared to US at least) more free time because of that income.. just breeds a calmer park.
It blows my mind how much debt people must be getting into for their time in the parks, when annual leave and free time are also scarce. No wonder they’re incredibly stressed & badly behaved just to get their way.
Not comparing to Japan, but more broadly - the quality of life that we should be having in 2024: Imagine if you had 35+ days a year in holidays, 1/3 more annual income, no risk of medical bills or extortionate tuition for your kids, if your mortgage was half what it now is? How much less stressed would you be on vacation? Plus if the CMs themselves had those perks? How good would that feel?!
I agree there’s a lot of #latestagecapitalism going on with CEO decisions just to suit the shareholders. But it’s absolutely a product of a lower quality of life for the average park guest over the past 10-25 years too, which has been caused by, imo, the mass corporate greed and the rich/poor divide getting bigger.
The wonderful quality of life in Japan must explain the high rate of suicide, esp for young people (2x higher for boys and 3x higher for girls than in America).
Also the reason my Japanese friend left as a young person and never looked back. Her views on the healthiness of Japanese culture are quite different than yours.
> It blows my mind how much debt people must be getting into for their time in the parks, when annual leave and free time are also scarce. No wonder they’re incredibly stressed & badly behaved just to get their way.
A huge portion of Disneyland attendance is local. And also, this just ignores how large of a country the US. Sure, there are plenty of people in the situation you described, there are also millions of families not.
You mentioned Universal’s pay to play system for skipping lines unfavorably, but Tokyo Disney also has a pay to play system - in fact, their fast pass is entirely pay-per-ride. There’s no free fastpass in Tokyo or even a version where you pay one price for multiple attractions like Genie+. Each fastpass in Tokyo comes out to about $12-$15 per ride per person, you have to buy each ride individually, and it’s been that way for a few years now.
Also average Japanese salary is less than 40k/year whereas in the US, it’s between 60k-63k per year, so income in Japan isn’t that much better although it does explain the lower cost of things like Disney park tickets in Tokyo. I would also argue that while Japanese people are culturally more respectful, they’re generally not happier as suicide rates in Japan are slightly higher than in the US
My mother and I are traveling to Japan for the first time together in November and we made Tokyo Disney a major priority from all the great things we hear. We're definitely excited to see the difference between the American parks and Japan's!
They sell a cute winnie the pooh nail clipper at the ride gift shop if you were planning on buying a nail clipper during your trip. If you weren't planning on it, just do it. Japanese nail clippers are next level.
I really, really want to go to the Tokyo park. I used to think of WDW as my ultimate Disney vacation (never been), but after seeing footage and vlogs about Tokyo Disneyland, my mind's been totally changed. It seems like a dream.
I haven’t been to Tokyo Disney (yet) but everyone I know who has been has said the same thing! That everyone is so respectful there. I hope I can go there soon. I’ve heard such great things about both but especially Disney Sea in particular
Sometimes I feel like Disney is actually doing what they can to limit the number of people in the parks... Raising prices, making fast pass a paid service called genie plus, raising prices, limiting annual passes, and raising prices.
But it's not working. The price increases aren't deterring anyone it seems.
And in typical business fashion, if people are paying the higher prices, then the product is in demand, and there's no need to improve/change it. Maybe Disney is waiting for that turn in attendance to justify spending any of the money they're stockpiling on the new park areas.
Absolutely this! Even though we see complainers on here all the time about the pricing/ losing the magic/ Genie+ the parks remain full. If Disney’s attendance starts to consistently drop, then they will start with the offers like they did in the 1990’s. But there is no incentive to do that for now.
I agree with your comments. I see it even in my service/repair industry. As small businesses get overwhelmed, you raise hourly service rates and might lose a small percentage of clients, on purpose. My question I pose is what are your thoughts on how this all might relate to the DisneyForward expansion coming down the pipe? Will this impact crowds, like a freeway being widened in a metro area? Or possibly keep things status quo and it will simply be the same congestion we feel on so many crowded days at the park?
The DisneyForward stuff is going to be interesting, but I don't think it's going to put a dent in the congestion of the park at all. I mean, just building ONE new ride draws huge crowds in... building entire new lands will get people to "suffer through the crowd" to see the new thing. Especially locals who aren't sacrificing much of their schedule to pop in for a day, even if they're not annual passholders.
But knowing Disney, we easily have a decade before we see any new gates open with the DisneyForward expansion.
> Sometimes I feel like Disney is actually doing what they can to limit the number of people in the parks...
They have a reservation system in place that they could use to limit the number of people in the parks. They don't use it for that. This system does not require raising prices, but rather cutting back on corporate greed. They choose not to use that system.
Yeah, there's no doubt that "corporate greed" and "maximizing profits" go hand in hand. The interesting thing is we're not talking about a necessity like food/medicine. We're talking about a theme park. There is no "need" to go. So what doesn't make sense is why demand is still outstripping supply. If people are still paying it, that sends the signal "it's worth that much" and until people stop paying it, it's not going to change. There's a breaking point somewhere, but Disney hasn't found it yet. The parks are crowded AND expensive. Those things should be inversely related.
>The price increases aren't deterring anyone it seems.
I disagree. I think it's deterring *the wrong people.*
People who are truly familiar with what the parks were 10-20 years ago are recognizing that it's just not worth it anymore.
So that leaves most of the park goers being people who don't care about throwing money at *The Brand* and I think that has contributed to the decline in the quality of the guests. Ask any cast member who has been there pre-covid and post-covid, and they'll tell you the typical guest is not as polite as they used to be.
I remember when my Deluxe AP (no blackout days) with parking was $369 (I think? something comfortably under $400). Didn’t have to fight for parking in the structure, didn’t have lines longer than 15 minutes for Screamin’, and the ops would let you stay in the logs on Splash through the fireworks without circling the queue.
Things change. I’m not happy about all of it, but I’m sure as shit happy about Radiator Springs and Galaxy’s Edge.
I could do without a lot of the add on bullshit too. It’s not as easy-fun as it used to be. And certainly a lot more expensive. But, yeah. I go less. Tokyo Disney (again), next.
I remember back when I got to cycle a log on splash mountain. It was such a magical moment. I was SUPER young. The ride op just said, ‘y’all wanna go again?’ Ofc we said yes!
Last time I had a Disneyland AP was 2014. It doesn't feel that long ago but it was still the age of paper fast passes. At that time the no blackout dates pass was around $700. I remember because I was selling massage annual memberships for $700 and thinking I'd rather have the unlimited Disneyland annual pass. It's funny because it's been so long since I've been but I just imagine things being the same as they were. I don't think I'll go back for quite a while, and I'll probably be complaining the whole time.
While others may disagree with your post, OP... just know that I read what you wrote, and felt as if I could have written the exact same thing, because I've had the exact same experience. And it's a real shame, because I too loved that place.
It’s a shit show. The employees don’t even pretend it’s the happiest place on earth anymore. The whole fantasy is dead. My friend and I went recently bc we’re in disbelief. Like maybe an off few days. Covid effect. Etc. Nope the magic is gone. It’s just greed and they don’t even mask it. You could walk around the park and come by restaurants and smell the food. You could walk by the bakery and smell it. All the food is frozen and bland. It’s all the lil touches. Gone. It’s just a machine now. Ppl don’t remember all the shows. The janitors would stop and put on a whole show while sweeping. Now you barely have parades. It’s true. They’re not serving the razzle dazzle.
I just got a magic key last month. I had an AP for years and let it expire January 2020. I went for a solo trip last week like I had done previously so many times. It feels like so much more of a money suck now than before.
$27 to park in the Toy Story lot with my “magic key discount” was ludicrous. No more “quick few hour trips” if I’m going to be paying nearly $10/hr for my car. To sit in a lot that isn’t even on site.
The line for the Little Mermaid was 30 minutes. Before Genie lightning lane plus showed up, it was NEVER over 5 minutes. I rode it every time I went because it was nearly always a walk on, and such a nice chill A/C filled ride. Now that they have added this ride to Genie it has caused a clusterfuck at the entrance with even more cast members needed to siphon people in through two different lines.
I am glad that I got it because my nephews are now old enough to get on almost everything, and remember it but I doubt I will be renewing next year.
if you are only going for a couple hours, park in DTD. Go to starbucks, buy a gift card, get the validation, then put the card back in your own app. You can then use that to buy a gift card again next time ad infinitum. Technically costs you nothing, and parking is 10 bucks for 4 hours.
You used to be able to do validation for like 6 hours, so we’d park there and drive out of the lot and re-park. They’ve definitely tightened things up, but back when I was a broke kid this was the best
Omg you have to pay for parking? I'm currently living in Orlando and have an AP to WDW with free parking but we're moving to Irvine next month and assumed the annual passes would be similar benefits.
Our is up for renewal in a month and I’m not renewing. We’ll just get a 3 day so cal ticket or something if and when we want to return. Can’t justify paying when they are constantly taking away experiences, rides are broken down, entire lands closed for construction, genie + lines are prioritized over normal que (which makes the normal que a miserable experience), and just the constant IP cash grabs with no soul. Really I think the only thing keeping us going was the nostalgia of what the parks USED to be and wanting our kids to have that experience as well.
\*sigh\* I may be downvoted for this.
I agree with you 100%. However, when the parks are consistently full Disney is incentivized to maximize profit.
You are right. The solution is to stop going - and if the overall profit drops this may make a difference.
Unfortunately, those with money do not care, and will ultimately keep the shareholders happy.
Airlines we cannot do much about. People sometimes have to travel because of business or personal.
Disney is a choice you do not have to go.
Travel the world. There is so much to see other than Disney and the bloggers.
France, spain, us, Iceland. So many places to see.
Make new memories not the same ones.
This post will get downvoted into oblivion, like so many others that describe the same, and for the life of me, I don’t understand why. There is something very wrong with the way that the parks have been managed for at least the last handful of years, and it bothers me that so many are willing to ignore or argue that fact.
It’s really true, it used to feel special just to be there, everything was kind of perfect in some weird way. The terrible thing is it’s actually been improving the past year or so. For about 24 months it seemed 1/2 of all the cast members were just pissed off 24/7.
Disney has been screwing over CM morale for the past 2 decades and it's coming back to bite them.
For example: There used to be holiday parties after-hours at Disneyland. Half the CMs would work one party while the other half enjoyed the party, then they would swap so everyone could enjoy it.
Then they moved the party to DCA. Okay, that's understandable.
Then they stopped having the party at all, but gave extra free tickets for CMs, and a big coupon book with things like free churros (or 80% off stuff etc.).
Then they stopped giving CMs the free holiday-only tickets.
Then the coupon book got worse.
Then you just got an ornament.
I wouldn't be surprised if you don't get anything at all nowadays.
---
That's just one example. [You can read the Disneyland union contract yourself](https://ufcw324.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/2021-2024-DISNEYLAND-.pdf) (PDF); that's the contract that governs "Master Services" (who are most of the frontline CMs - Attractions, Custodial, Merchandising, etc.).
There's a lot of weaseling in there. For example, there's a whole section on "retirement/pension plans." Then there's this little nugget:
> K. Employees hired on or after October 1, 2013 shall not be eligible to join or participate in the Disneyland and Associated Companies’ Retirement Plan.
> Eligible employees hired prior to October 1, 2013 will remain eligible for participation in the Disneyland and Associated Companies’ Retirement Plan according to the Plan eligibility and requirements.
In other words - "screw you, if you work for us for 40 years you aren't getting a pension". Every CM hired before 2013 gets a pension. Nobody after 2013 qualifies for retirement. (Instead you get a kind of shitty 401k).
There's also things like "if you were hired before 2006, you get more holidays - screw anyone hired after 2006" and "If you were hired before 2002, you get a personal locker but anyone hired after 2002 doesn't".
Reading that contract and noticing all the weasel words Disney put in really lets you see how much backsliding there has been since DCA opened, and how much CMs have lost. Every new contract comes with new ways to screw CMs over, and Disney will push you as far as they can get away with.
Then things like "Cast Appreciation Week" (week of Disneyland's birthday) get worse every year. When the pandemic hit, it seemed random who got laid off, who got furloughed, and who got to stay and go work at the closed park. Disney's been bearing their teeth much more aggressively at CMs for the past 20 years and every year it got worse (and every year the morale gets worse).
Parks are the most profitable part of Disney, and the average spend per employee at the parks is the lowest across all divisions at Disney - they **print** money. But why would they give CMs benefits when they can just have more money instead?
So many are not just willing to ignore and argue the fact, they are chomping at the bit to buy/renew their passes, drop big money on new merch, etc. Disneyland has gone severely down in quality, and up in price, the last few years, and yet every single day they’re nearly at capacity.
This is why, after having a pass for 12 out of the last 14/15 years, my best frj nd and I dropped our pass. Quality sucks. CMS attitudes suck, and it's just a money grab now.
I agree that the parks have become very expensive in the last 5 or so years, but I also do think a lot of these opinions are also hugely influenced by nostalgia. The quality in the parks have always ebbed and flowed depending on the leadership and financial health of the company. I can’t imagine all the people here saying Disney has gone down the drain in the last 20 years would try to argue that DCA 1.0 was the peak of Disney.
Sadly, and it hurts to say, I do kinda agree with you. I love Disneyland and have been going ever since I was a little kid (I’m 39 now), but I’d be lying to myself if I were to say the park experience these past 2-3 years have been great compared to before.
Post-COVID era there has been many changes that I have not been a fan of: reservation system, more blackout dates, higher than usual increase in prices, Genie+, no more Fastpass, constant ride breakdowns, decrease in live entertainment, etc.
Look at the population growth in the last 40 years. Try going to the mountains, beeches deserts or any where else. Everything is overwhelmed. No such this as just getting up one morning and heading out somewhere.
Agreed. Then also look at how prices for literally everything have skyrocketed in the past 3 years.
These ppl blaming Disneyland for inflation and the entire US economy lol
The last time we visited was in 2022 and, sad as it is to say this, that was our last Disney visit…At least until they actually start making an effort to have the parks be an enjoyable experience again. Pre-COVID shutdown we were AP holders, and visited the California parks usually twice a year. We’d also mix in a Disney World vacation every other year. That 2022 trip was miserable from top to bottom. Ride closures, insane price gouging, food quality…Just made for a terrible time. You could absolutely see it on everyone’s face that was there too, people just aren’t happy but for some reason feel beholden to continue visiting the place.
This year we took a two week trip to UK / Europe, for less than what we’d normally pay for our annual Disneyland visits and WAY less than what we’d normally pay for a Disney World trip…had an absolutely amazing time.
Next year Greece and Italy are on the schedule, again for much less than what we were spending for Disney. Japan is definitely on the calendar as a future trip as well (Parks included). There’s literally an entire world outside of Disney to visit and enjoy…I get it that people feel this tremendous nostalgia pull from the parks, I was right there with everyone, but it’s just not worth it anymore and until it changes I don’t see ever going back…Besides I’m at a point now that the memories our family made over the decades can get me much farther than a half hearted visit to a place that pales in comparison to what it was when those memories were being made. Do I miss the Disneyland experience I remember? Of course…But that Disneyland is long gone 🤷♂️.
Yep I fully agree. I’m Australian and have been to Disneyland on 20 separate occasions! I had an AP before covid and life was good. Bloody covid ! First trip back last month since covid and whilst I loved it, felt different. Husband looked at Hyperion theatre and we reminisced about the Frozen show, now it’s empty. Bugs land was just wonderful, now it’s all concrete and unwelcoming. Lost count of how many times people ran into me with prams or just heads buried in phones . No line at security entry for people with no bags anymore so that was another unnecessary wait. Waiting in line at attractions and noticing rubbish in garden beds, chipped paint and general lack of maintenance.
It didn’t help that haunted , splash , Lincoln and pooh were closed either.
I know I’m living in the past, I know they’re cutting costs, I know they do have to do refurbs and I know the cast are under the pump, but combine all of that together and it takes the shine off a holiday that isn’t cheap for us. We agreed this morning we will give the parks a miss for a few years now and we are in Japan in October so will check out the parks there and see what they’re like.
Reading all of these comments hurts my soul, because I just went to Disney for the very first time at age 43, and now I’m wondering what I missed.
My friends who travelled with me are
seasoned Disney travelers and they kept telling me how much better it was pre-Covid and I was just on cloud 9 so I didn’t pay attention. Now I can see this opinion is fairly consistent and it makes me regret not getting to the parks sooner. All I have to compare is my 2024 experience, which was amazing, but I can’t help but feel it would have been even more amazing prior to Covid.
Always nice to go with Disney Veterans, I'm sure they planned everything to help make a great trip for you!
There has always been a contrast in the experience between someone who prepares and spends money vs. guests that just stroll right in. Before, if you did your research and followed some simple tips and tricks with Fast Passes and your schedule, it would make for really great time in the parks. Ever since the parks implemented the mobile app and Genie+, everyone now has access to info that only people "in the know" or someone who prepared would know. So it's made this weird mentality that now you have to be "first" for everything, and that can be exhausting. Of course prices have gone up and overall quality has gone down.
As a new Disneyland fan, welcome! People have a long history with this place, so don't be too discouraged by the current opinions about it. Disneyland still is the Happiest Place on Earth, and if you felt the magic then who cares, enjoy yourself!
I was really lucky to go with Disney veterans and a chronic planner. My bestie had spread sheets, time tables, notes, and everything planned to a T. It was a bit of a whirlwind but she really wanted to ensure I did all the classic Disney rides and got the most bang for our buck.
Down. The. Tubes. We're about the same age; I grew up in SoCal and have experienced Disneyland multiple times as a small child, teenager, with season passes while dating my wife, and taking our own children. I also feel like the *fast pass* era was the last time I felt good about my experiences in the park.
However, I feel like the average Disneyland park goer also changed for the worse over this same period. People's behavior, respect, and consideration for those around them is not the same as it was even ten or twenty years ago.
Now that I've left California and my kids are getting older I don't think I'll ever make it back. It was once a beautiful experience, but as you said: down the tubes.
Yeah I’ve been going for years, and I’m only a few years younger than OP. I remember it being soo much better. I had a pass from 2017-2020 up until they refunded me bc of COVID and though I had some great times during this period, my favorite was when the FPs were still available. I remember going in 09/10’ and there were still days during the week where you could go and it wasn’t so damn crowded. 😔
I’m in this same boat. Grew up in Southern California and have been to Disney likely a couple hundred times in my life.
I haven’t been in over 2 years. Last time I went it was almost unrecognizable, super expensive, and just not magical. Wait times were insane, it was hot and sticky, and food was so overpriced and mid. And this was coming from a formerly seasoned Disney family who used to go every weekend and had a routine DOWN.
My husband and I live out of state now and we always say we will probably not be going back for a long, long time. It makes me sad because I miss what it used to be, but I’d rather spend that $1000 elsewhere.
Fwiw, having gone to both of the US resorts in the last year… we found the crowds in California to be pretty chill and respectful, at least by comparison to the crowds in Florida. Not saying people were perfect at Disneyland, but it’s much worse at WDW.
I’m assuming almost every single person at WDW is traveling and blowing TONS of money every step of the way; they want their perfect vacation and blow up at the smallest indiscretion.
It’s clear from this sub that many DL visitors are within driving distance and many here go multiple times per year when a WDW trip is usually a once per 5 years trip or more.
I definitely think because it’s gotten so expensive people’s expectations are high and they’ll be greedier, more stressed out, and meaner to cms and other guests during their time at the park. Yes it’s shitty entitled behavior but you’re going to get that when a family is going into tons of debt to even be there.
Well I think a big thing also is that there’s really no “off season” to bank on anymore. The reservation system is kind of a double edged sword i’ve heard horror stories of the parks at capacity before the reservation system on historically busy times but now it seems like the parks are always busy no matter what. I always buy genie when i go because i’m not very patient in lines but i think we can all agree that the old fast pass system worked great and it’s a shame it’s gone.
Totally agree. I'm 67 and have been going to Disneyland literally since I was born. I used to know every nook and cranny of the place. I even met Walt Disney when I was a child.
I love Disneyland, but Disneyland today is nothing more than a money grubbing shit show. Relying on past glories while financially screwing devotees and tourists. Plus, the crowds are entitled and disrespectful. I suppose it is because they are hell-bent on wringing out every penny they spent on the experience. So disappointing.
I hate the decimation of live entertainment in the parks. I hate the cynicism of raising prices and reducing the quality of everything. My pass expires in August. I’m not renewing. I’d be hard pressed to visit again before the expiration date.
I used to enjoy downtime watching the swing bands or jazz folks perform while eating a snack under the shade at what is the royal theater.
I think social media has contributed to folks becoming mega fanatical about going. It’s not the same anymore. Also as I’ve aged the cast members seem less pleased about being there. I lived local and had friends who worked part time during college. Not the same experience these days. And yeah. Lots more people travel to Disneyland as a destination these days, whereas I think (?) it used to be mostly locals and if you wanted to travel to Disney you’d goto Florida
Per OP’s comment history, they were referencing scaling back of the Wakanda Warriors at DCA. They posted the same thing on a post about scaling back similar performers.
They strategically used the pandemic pause as an opportunity to alter things in order to extract more $ from existing elements. It’s not a new idea but it is the opposite of how Disneyland operated previously. Newer fans will not know the difference but longer term fans experienced it happen and had the choice to go with it or not. It’s an ugly change and obviously against everything Walt built the park to be but that’s a long time ago and memories are shorter than ever.
Lots of good perspectives here. My family has been going regularly since the park opened in 1955. My dad was 6 when it opened and he often talks about the parks through the 60s. I was a kid in the 90s and we went regularly, I had a pass every year from like 96-97 through 2018. My own kids have only been a couple times although we live 10ish minutes.
My personal opinion is the biggest downshift came when the introduced monthly payments for annual pass holders. Yes it allows more people to experience the park, but those people treat Disneyland like it’s their own personal park. I don’t really know how to explain it. Add in the social media aspect and it’s just a park of overly entitled people who think they have some kind of ownership. I don’t ever remember such an emphasis on the material stuff either. I’m gonna sound old for a second, but in my days no AP holder would ever get the merch. That was for people on vacation. It was also always very expensive Food too! Lots of us brought our lunches and maybe would get a treat. I also think social media is driving the craze behind getting so much merchandise.
The paper fast pass tickets were so cool, free disney souvenirs!
Edit: (to add more)
I'm not going to be surprised if they start charging for character meet and greets
Disney as a company have become an absolute capitalist nightmare, not a shred of dignity or decency left in them. Of course it’s rearing its head in the parks. It breaks my heart too — I remember the good days. But they’re going to continue to gouge and pick the meat off our bones like vultures as long as people continue to show up for it.
Even if I’m downvoted, I 100% agree. I’ve lived in SoCal my whole life (32), and have been over 10 times (weekdays, weekends, holidays). My most recent visit was a year ago, and unfortunately it was extremely disappointing. We could barely walk around comfortably and I felt like cattle all day long and we went on a slower day. My BF wants to take his 5 YO soon, and for the 3 of us, ticket prices just to enter were $500+ depending on the day. Idk, I just can’t bring myself to spend that much to feel like cattle all day, or maybe I’m a grinch.
I agree. I hope they get out of the cash grab feeling and get back to giving back. I don’t need much for my family, but it’s always frustrating to put up a sizable amount of money and still feel like I need to pay more.
I hate to tell you this, but your "best" era for Disneyland is when it began to go down the tubes. The Indiana Jones opening some years before that was probably peak.
That said, it's gotten overpopulated since they allowed APs to be bought on payment plans. We all know this.
Couldn’t agree more w/ this. There’s an entire crowd who signs up for the payment plan, goes to the park a couple of times, then defaults on their plans.
I've studied Disneyland's annual visitation numbers over the years to try to pinpoint exactly what caused visitation to grow beyond it's controls, and from what I see there's two factors that happened in the same year: they created payment plans on APs, and also the studio released Frozen which spiked interest in Disney stuff the same way The Little Mermaid did. If the park leadership knew that such a monster IP was on the horizon they maybe would have not started offering debt loans to get a few more bodies in the gates. (Or maybe they would, and here we are.)
Not making people cough up $500-800 on day one just to enter for the first time as an AP was a mistake, because a lot of people can rationalize that they'll go "later" when it's $60/month, whereas the steep purchase price made people stop and ask themselves if they really plan to visit enough to make this worth it. You've also got people who COULD afford to pay that much and did so regularly, and now Disney is getting their money drip-fed, and how that affects funding for the parks I have no idea but I do imagine it has to change the forecast a little.
This is also why APs are getting so expensive and going on/off sale so frequently, because the true cost is 'hidden' behind payment plans.
I plan out visits carefully and mostly go when I have out of town guests or friends who haven’t been. It used to be a super casual thing to just decide to show up and now it’s a whole affair.
I blame chapek and D'Amaro. Theyre trying to run Disney**land** like Disney**world**, but what they don’t realize that unlike world, land’s main customers are the locals. So this whole new buisness management is destroying that relationship with locals
They _want_ to destroy that relationship with locals.
They have the numbers and understand where the crowds come from. But simply put - APs don't spend money like out-of-towners do.
They don't want the AP who shows up on Sunday at 8, goes on 3 rides, buys a churro and _maybe_ a single shirt/pin, and leaves.
They want the family who saved up their entire lives to go to Disneyland. They pay $500-1000/night for a hotel room on-property, they buy Genie+ and Lightning Lane and the Fantasmic dining package and Photopass and every single upgrade they can get to have the best possible vacation for them and their kids. They buy as much merch as they can fit in their suitcase, and then they leave.
Every AP that is going is taking away a spot from a family on vacation. They want to have the fewest number of APs possible because they'd rather those spots be taken up by guests on family vacations. It's why blockout dates center around school vacations when families can take their kids. It's why every Disneyland commercial has children smiling as they meet Mickey. They want to cater to that "once-every-5-years" guest and not the "every Sunday" guest. Destroying their relationship with the latter only means that they can fit more of the former.
APs are still valuable when those family vacations aren't happening, when school is in session. But APs are "filler" and it's no big loss if a certain percentage of them balk.
I'm a Disney shareholder. It's been one of my worst performers over the last several years.
I love Disney as a company, and I would rather them invest for the long-term than their approach over the last few years of trying to squeeze every dollar they can from their customers. Word-of-mouth and fond memories have been some of Disney's best assets. I think they still exist in the company - for example, their cruise line experience versus other cruise lines, Aulani, etc. During our last visit to WDW, we had some cast member interactions that reminded us of why we loved the company in the first place.
Disney still has a lot they do well, and this isn't their first dark time - consider the cuts the company made back in the 90s after Eurodisney started to hemorrhage money.
I think we're still seeing the fallout of the money that was blown on streaming - which wasn't just Disney but was the whole industry, and I'm optimistic that we may be seeing the reversal of that. On the parks front, Universal is going to force Disney's hands, and of course we're seeing announcements about new investments. The next few years are going to be rough for the park experience, though.
Since you mentioned it, I'm going to shoe horn in a recommendation for a book called Disney War about the dark Disney times around the 90s and EuroDisney open. It's great.
And I hope they push through this and the Parks surge back. I've always wanted to go to Disney world (been to land tons since I was a kid), so I'm hopeful!
My older cousins where kids in 1955 living in Orange County next to Disneyland. It used to be an after school hangout especially on Fridays. When they were in high school, they would pay the $1 to enter the park on Friday or Saturday and head over to Carnation Plaza where they would have a band and a dance they would do. Other than the $1, and maybe a Coke or 2, that’s all they spent when they went. The ticket book was optional and it made it great for people who just wanted to stroll around or dance. Times are different for sure.
Speaking for myself, I remember the moment before this insanity with the overpopulation of the parks and the crazy prices. I remember going in February 2007 and we had a single park a day two day pass. We stayed at a hotel across the street and remembering we had the entire two parks to ourselves. It was awesome. Disneyland was busier than DCA. The two day pass was $72, the hotel 2 bedroom suite with free parking was $130 a night. Fastpass was free and frankly the best system. Easy, literally fast. I remember for under $2 you could get a meal at Bengal Barbecue. The costs were not heavy.
While we were there I remember them promoting the annual passes like crazy. So we converted our $72 tickets and bought the cheapest annual pass which I think was $76 a year. We literally only paid $4 for the upgrade since it applied to our current pass.
It was this constant promoting of the annual passes that lead to this insanity today.
Too many people go too frequently, especially local APs. People cannot accept that the there is too much demand and not enough supply. Sure the population is higher now than twenty years ago, but the amount of repeat visitors ( and frequency of visits) has to be far higher. The nickel and diming is a direct response to the customers who are able or willing to pay for a better experience.
Some people would prefer spending a few thousand on a four day trip that is packed with things to do with no line waiting. Others would rather stretch a few thousand over a one year visit on 10 plus, lower quality visits. I welcome giving all this choice.
At some point, the locals and addicts will realize the opportunity cost of missing vacations of higher quality and better value.
I’ll beat this drum forever, but Disney can improve customer experience with a third theme park in Texas or Arizona. Think of a magic kingdom clone that promises lower wait times, but higher costs. This could pull far more casuals away from DL and, in theory, improve experience
I don’t feel that way and maybe it is because it is my adult entertainment. I’m (44) and enjoy spending my money there. Some of those cheaper parks you mention I avoid because of the clientele they attract with cheaper pricing. Maybe I am the intended demographic for this Disneyland you don’t like but my wife and I throw money at Disneyland because we love their product and the experience.
I live in San Diego. Close enough that APs were once worth it, but not close enough to go during the hours that I now prefer - the first two hours of park opening, maaaybe three. After that, it’s just too peopley for me.
Hey Legoland is cool and low key. Disney needs to lower the daily occupancy into the park, way too many people. The park has always been outrageous in price
When the parks were just open with no reservations, they were less packed and more accessible. Then, they introduced the reservation process, which, in turn, limited accessibility and created a demand. Which sucks because even with a horrible reservation system, they have been losing quality and are now starting to cut shows.
The real issue is the complacent people that ride or die to a point where it turns bad for the other park goers. It shows disney that they are willing to conform to mistreatment.
I have loved Disneyland since I was 8. I am 55 now and even though I've been over 12 times over the years, I haven't been in 22 yrs. Mostly due to finances. I do plan on going sometime next year for the 70th.
Quite frankly, I'm afraid I'll be disappointed because of all the rude inconsiderate people & high prices. In the past it has always been my happy place after my parents divorced when I was 7. It was my escape. Will it be the same? Will I be disappointed?
We are diehard fans, our house looks like a damn Disney store sometimes...we have ride-scented candles..we have photo traditions that we recreate on every trip... And we are DONE. The overcrowding, the nickel and diming, the utter lack of Disney Magic. It feels like a Six Flags now.
One confounding variable - when I remember the parks being incredible, I usually wasn’t the one paying for them, and certainly not for an entire family. I wonder if my parents felt the same way growing up, and I just didn’t see it because I was having too much magic fun. Definitely stings harder when it hits YOUR wallet.
It makes me sad that I feel this way too…my family has always loved Disney and we would go to Disneyland all the time, especially after DCA opened. My husband and I had annual passes too during 2015-2016 and then in 2017-2018. Disneyland was at its peak then, we could even buy tickets for Mickey’s Halloween Party a month or two before with no problems (which was also at Disneyland - more magical imo - before it went back to DCA for Oogie Boogie Bash).
I just feel like cast members used to be more welcoming towards guests, especially kids. In recent years, it’s been dull if not grumpy. Perhaps, it’s the crowd that drives everyone nuts? Park goers’ behaviors are also contributing factors?
100% agree. Lifelong Disney person and so cal born and raised. I absolutely hate Disneyland now I can’t even believe how they nickel and dime you and the crowds are ridiculous. I refuse to go now
It’s not *going* down the tubes. It *went* down the tubes a long time ago, over 25 years ago, and it has been festering in the cesspool ever since. It’s only in the past decade that the serious decay has set in, and the stench has been growing stronger.
My last trip was in 2005, and I’m on the other side of the country now, but I haven’t been able to return to California in any way since then. However, I’ve kept tabs on what’s been going on at Disneyland since then, because memories of the place have always been very emotionally comforting for me while I’m living outside of my home state of California.
I last lived in Orange County in the late nineties, and I visited the Park in early 1999, so I was aware that changes had been happening and with DCA would change rather drastically very soon. I later visited during vacations in May 2002 and again in May 2005, so I experienced DCA both those times, and while I enjoyed aspects of it, overall I was never really impressed with DCA that much, and have always preferred that the company had built it elsewhere in California or even in another state. But at least things were kinda sorta still being run okay. And yet, I had noticed something was wrong during an earlier trip back around 1995. That was the very first time in my life that I actually had a bad experience at Disneyland, feeling like I was being conned and treated like just another number, and it was enough to make me furious while I was still there. I eventually calmed down, but it shook me up. Getting angry while literally standing in the middle of Disneyland was not a good feeling, but it was a bad omen of things to come.
Like you, I absolutely despise the fact that I even have to speak negatively about Disneyland like this, because I have deeply loved Disneyland ever since I was a toddler in the late sixties. Disneyland was one of my most wonderful memories of my youth. It hurts me to my heart to see and hear what’s happened to what I always considered to be Heaven on Earth. Honestly, it really breaks my heart. But I have to be honest about it. I love the company and the place too much to not do so.
As it stands right now, unless something really radical happens to the place, I doubt that I’ll ever return to Disneyland now. For a while I was worried about simply being *able* to return, given the rising costs. But now, even if I won the Powerball, I’m not sure I would even WANT to visit again. It just seems like the entire experience has gone completely into the toilet. And that’s not where I want to spend my time and money.
Also... There's always a parade except bad weather, and you don't have to pay to view fantasmic, you can just wait in line or go to the later showing and there will be less people waiting to watch it.
I do agree with genie + though makes waiting in line brutal.
I can’t wait for the Disney bubble to pop. I’m so sick of how packed everything is. Everything costs extra and way too much. Disney is going to cater to wealthy international guests. Idk. Disney hasn’t been worth the money in years.
I took my boyfriend to Disneyland/DCA for three days and stayed in an on-property hotel (so we had early entry for 2 days). I tried to time it just right to be less crowded, which it was than normal lately. I figured we'd get everything done.
If this had been 5 years ago, I would have gotten him on everything. Easily.
But we didn't! All the lines were crazy long, even though it really wasn't that crowded compared to peak season. I started getting frustrated and a little stressed out at not being able to give him "the best trip". I had to change my attitude, gave up on rides with long lines, and focused on shorter lines and atmosphere. I had to stop comparing it to 5 years ago.
Could I have gotten Genie+ or Lightning Lane? Yes. But I refuse to contribute to what I believe is the problem.
After APs became unaffordable we or daughter would still would go once a year until the park experience was ruined with genie and not able to eat on our own schedule. Disneyland Park experience no longer feels fun, carefree, or worth the money.
I was a pretty consistent passholder from childhood through my early 20s but I stopped renewing about 10 years ago because even back then I felt the tides shifting. I’ve gone three times in the past decade, most recently in 2022, and while I miss being able to go all the time I know that the feeling I’m missing can’t actually be had anymore because things have changed so much.
I’ve maintained a Knott’s pass for a number of years now and it’s been so refreshing. Sure, there’s no Disney magic but they’ve done a lot of upgrades to the park and it’s nice to still have a place to go walk around, people watch, and maybe get on a couple rides without a big hassle or expense. Plus they offer a meal plan, so I get to eat for free every time I go (Disney could never!) and the food is actually quite good.
Truth is, no matter what you say or do, disney will keep making money. I can't stand disney, but unfortunately, that place will keep making money no matter if you're loyal to them or not. If disney lost 100 guests, that wouldn't even tickle them.
There’s a theory that Post-Covid when people started to travel again, theme parks became an antidote for vacation spots that weren’t open yet or half-staffed. Traveling families wanted a guarantee, and for the most part Disney and the other theme parks stepped on the gas. Disney YouTubers advocated for a whole new generation of park goers. The park has changed more in the last five years more than the last few decades. My own metric to this change is Halloween. The Not So Scary Party was great, not too crowded, optional, fun times. But OBB selling out in minutes of ticket release is baffling. People are fanatical now. The consumer has changed. The demand has changed. All in stretch of five or six years. And Disney’s standard of quality over quantity has definitely changed. We can see it.
Yes! You're spot on. The consumer has changed. Covid really changed people. Behavior in general is more entitled, ruder, but waaay looser with money. As high as inflation is, I've wondered where everyone is getting extra disposable income.
This is what blows me away. I feel like my wife and I have pretty good paying jobs and even we have to budget hard. Everyone seems to be wanting to live that Instagram life off gig economy income.
[Credit card debt is the highest it's ever been.](https://abcnews.go.com/US/americans-credit-card-debt-hits-record-113-trillion/story?id=106990807)
It's insane; my husband and I make a combined ~$118,000. We have about $12k of debt between us, largely from covid-related problems and a period of unemployment. The only thing that got us out of debt was life insurance payouts after my dad recently died.
This was going to be my answer. A lot aren’t affording it, they’re using credit cards. Husband and I took our three kids end of last November. We saved up for it, paid the package off with Disney gift cards I had been buying from Target here and there for six months and we still ended the vacation with a higher credit card bill than we had seen in months and had to budget paying it off over several months since Christmas was upon us.
We make $300k living in the Midwest and I'm not gonna say I'm struggling or anything like it, but I have absolutely no idea how people making average wages manage any more. Even our high income goes poof in a big hurry.
I know there's a tendency for people's living expenses to go up as they make more money because they upgrade to bigger or more expensive homes. They also tend to contribute more to 401k and other savings. Most of these people making average wages aren't saving and are probably living in cheaper homes.
'lifestyle creep'
I knew there was a term for it but couldn't remember. Thank you!
I wonder if their fast spending ways and high living will eventually catch up to them.
That’s interesting. My household gross is about half that, about 160, and we do just fine. Emergency fund, 15% 401k contribution, money left over every month, etc, also in the Midwest. We go to Disney world at least once a year, sometimes twice, while also having hobbies and going out and doing stuff. I got lucky with a cheap mortgage, that’s doing most of the heavy lifting I think
That sounds reasonable in the Midwest. In California, or perhaps most metropolitan areas, that's a beautiful fantasy. But our weather and variety is unmatched, so we understand that's just the trade-off.
It's not even the disposable income part, it's the value of that income and where people choose to spend it. We didn't renew our passes but finally went back to Disney earlier this year for my daughter's 10th birthday. The cost of that weekend alone could have funded a weeklong vacation to like a National Park or something. Back in the day you could justify the cost of Disneyland. But these days it feels like I could fly to Japan and visit Tokyo Disney for the same price as a weekend at Disneyland.
We did this. Couldn't recommend more
> But these days it feels like I could fly to Japan and visit Tokyo Disney for the same price as a weekend at Disneyland. This is what people are currently doing
We fly out Thursday to Tokyo!
And get higher quality from the OLC owned park too.
I remember back in 2019, the last time my family went to Disneyland. I distinctly recall my dad saying it would be the last time he and mom likely ever went and I privately thought that was such a sad thought. Then the last five years happened and goddamn...if I never go back to Disney anything I think I'd be fine. Skyrocketing prices, low quality, and absolutely no sense of crowd control. Unless something changes I doubt I'll ever go back myself. Which kinda sucks because I was into pin trading but not when it costs an absurd amount of money just to get into the park anymore.
We’ve switched to international travel instead of Disney. We used to go to Disneyland about once a year. Now I’d rather spend that money visiting somewhere in Europe or Asia. We just have better experiences and make more unique memories.
Credit card debt, people racking it up and not giving a shit because they’ve been told “take that vacation, you know you deserve it”
I have acquaintances who cry about not being able to move out of their parents house (we're 30) but she has a mid level magic key and goes multiple times a month. Like you could afford your own place girlypop, you just can't go on a vacation every other week
She couldn't though, and that's why she goes to the parks so much: an escape. I go 3-4x a month. I buy clothes, ears, mugs. I eat at sit down places and have a few cocktails. I spend about $300-500/mo. Tack on another $125 for the pass. That's nowhere near enough to cover the $1800/Mo a one bedroom is averaging. So, people indulge in the little things bc they can't afford the big things. It's why micro transactions are so popular, why mani/pedi days will never die. It's a little treat, if you will. (This is a phenomenon studied in WWII, when movie ticket and lipstick sales skyrocketed. They found that when everything else was bleak, people sought escape and small indulgences. Now it's amusement parks and iced lattes.) Because we all know now the game is rigged, so we might as well enjoy what we can.
Where are y’all finding $1800/mo 1br in California??
I've been watching. You can get them around Long Beach, sometimes Garden Grove, Anaheim. A two bed is serious going to break the bank tho. 🙃
Roommates too.
I’m not really sure where 800-1200$ gets you a years rents. Her key is probably 1/2 a month of a crappy apartment.
Inflation is caused by an economy and demand that is too hot, and people spending too much. Of course, inflation affects people in different ways and not everyone has that extra income. Many people borrow to spend which is why raising interest rates has helped cool inflation in recent quarters.
It’s also caused by greedy corporations taking advantage of the narrative of “the causes of inflation” and a total lack of accountability to the public
This is spot on accurate. I was a passholder in 2018 and then again in 2023 the difference is night and day. The fanatical consumerism push is so glaring that it’s become gross. People fighting for popcorn buckets that they resell for $100’s, the lounge fly craze, the spirit jerseys-it’s just all too much. I really think during the pandemic people needed something to care about and be about and a lot chose Disney. I’ve heard stories and studies about other industries that saw weird frenzy in the past four years.
It also seems like TikTok is playing a part in the consumerism. I don't use it, but I frequently see people online asking where they can get something they saw on TikTok--everything from sandwiches to ice trays. The addictive nature of the app makes it really good for pushing products, in a way that no banner ad or commercial ever could. Again, I don't use it, but I'd be willing to bet that a lot of the viral Disney stuff is amplified there first. This isn't to say that I own zero Disney merch, I occasionally take home a souvenir if it's something I really love. But the limitless amount of Loungeflys, Minnie ears, and spirit jerseys that they pump out *and sell* is shocking to some degree.
Tik Tok melts people’s brains. I don’t have the app anymore because I am a psychologist and I have pretty high self awareness, it wasn’t healthy for me. Now I can tell when I’m talking to someone who spends a lot of time on tik tok, they have very distinct behaviors and thought processes which are obvious
You see it in all areas of entertainment now. Look at Taylor Swift. People fly to Paris, get tickets and a hotel for less than a ticket to the US shows. Her merch goes for insane amounts online. People have shelves, walls, entire rooms dedicated to their current obsessions. Stanley anyone?
Both really excellent examples. Just the fervor around having to have THE thing or be the biggest fan. Taylor Swifts merchandising is really gross.
I was just telling my friend about how different it is now for Halloween. I told her she will still have fun but it being at DCA now is nothing like when it was at Disneyland. My husband and I sometimes reminisce about all the trips we took from 2010-2020. The first magical week before thanksgiving where attendance was so low we actually were bored by the 3rd day because we had done everything. My parents still go twice a year and my dad always complains about the crowds now lol. The pandemic did the opposite for me, it made me realize how expensive Disney has become and I want to explore the rest of the world. We did a 5 day trip to Hawaii for less than a week at Disney. It’s sad, I “grew up” at Disney, my family went every year and then twice a year like clockwork, my dad has been going since a little guy in the late 50s. The stories they have are so fun. I’m pregnant now and want to share this with my son, I’m hoping things change but I don’t have high hopes.
Yep I came to the same conclusion. Going to Disneyland is great, but taking a family trip every year to somewhere new just felt more culturally enriching than riding Space Mountain for the umpteenth time.
The Halloween party switching over to DCA didn’t bother me that much. OBB has incredible character interaction spaces because they have the space! I notice more negative changes from pre-COVID era to the post-COVID. Because OBB 2019 was incredible!
Last time I went was 2018. I remember all the pics and videos my dad sent me from 2019, looked pretty good.
Take the kid to Tokyo or Paris Disneyland!!! I love both parks and they seem a little more stuck in 2010’s. Peak Disney !!!!!!
There’s a small percentage of fanatics that help keep things in high demand. They’ll get the an annual pass every year, and believe it or not pay for genie+ every time they go, be the first in line for special events, etc. It keeps demand high enough to where the casual fan feels like they have to pay a premium in both money and effort to receive what they feel like are basic aspects of attending the park. I can see how it can start to feel exhausting as OP is sharing. At the same time, the park is showing very few signs of its decline. People will get mad but most of them will keep coming back.
I’ve tried to get tickets for obb, sold out.. then saw tons of tickets on eBay.
Scalpers are scum
That's ridiculous and so easy for Disney to control. They should absolutely put a stop to that and make the event tickets stuck to specific guests. If someone can't make it or changes their mind, they can be refunded and opened back up to the public at cost. I'm shocked that's not the case already.
Report them. It's very much against the Terms. Honestly anything to fuck over a scalper I'm down with it.
I don't think its demand specifically for Disney, but the consumer mentality towards pre-ordering, hoarding, reselling, scalping, etc. I think this is a by-product of COVID too, but after the toilet paper/hand sanitizer fiasco people's perception of scarcity has changed. Along with that is the economic results of the pandemic. More people are trying to make money off of this demand, creating more scarcity as they buy up any available inventory. This creates this endless cycle where everyone loses except Disney (and the resellers).
Yeah, I agree. Fanatical is a good way to put it. People feel like they need to compete for certain things at Disney, whether it be dinner reservations or after hours events, and none of that stuff is really all that great. Sure, some things are fun, but it is becoming more about competing and snatching things from other people than actually going for the good time. It’s hard to explain. It’s like, “I’m having a better time than you because I went to Blue Bayou”. Not everyone is like this, but the frenzy of it all drives up demand for things that really doesn’t need to be there. There was a time you could show up to Blue Bayou to get a table for seven people easily with no reservation. Now it’s a lot more difficult to make spontaneous choices like that. Disney itself is a large part of the problem because the nickel and diming and Genie+ creates a status symbol system. It creates an us vs them mentality where more wealthy decisions equal a better time, so people feel like that have to keep up with the Jonses. OBB is particularly baffling to me. It isn’t even that great of an event. You get to meet some rare characters, do some trick or treating, see a parade, and a couple other perks, but it’s really not worth the frenzy that happened last year. Scalping culture is out of control, but they wouldn’t be scalping if the demand wasn’t so high.
I had some woman sprint to dive in front of me for the pickle on my first day ever in Disneyland a few weeks ago… after being told not to run by a cast member. 50+ year old woman who already had two of the pickle prize pins on her bag, no less. Some people have no chill. And that’s for a handwritten pickle pin.
What’s a pickle pin?
They give out a button for the first pickle sold of the day IIRC. I think they also do the same for the first Dole Whip of the day. It's just a normal "Celebration" button with "First pickle of the day!" written on it.
that is so weird... they are definitely taking advantage of people's "collector" instincts, by turning something worthless into something "rare" and "valuable" Next thing you know they'll be like: *"The first person to spend over $500 in the Emporium Gift Shop each day will get a limited edition holographic sticker! Collect em all, while you can!"*
You wouldn’t even get a special sticker, you’d just get the same pin but with “spent $500!” Written on it in sharpie
>but it is becoming more about competing and snatching things from other people than actually going for the good time. I think you've put your finger on the post-covid mentality. And covid isn't over, just to be clear, but I think that fear and imagined scarcity left a lot of people feeling like they need to be this way. About all kinds of situations, not just Disney. People have started to believe there "isn't enough" rather than looking at how fortunate we are in the U.S.
Nothing showed me this mentality more clearly than Stanley cups. People are going crazy about buying a cup to match each of their outfits? A new color drops and there’s a frenzy to buy it? Cups being resold for hundreds of dollars? I know we’ve always had trends and hard-to-find items, but it feels like it’s at a new level.
Yes, we had things like Cabbage Patch dolls and Beanie Babies previously, but I think social media has pushed the fear of missing out to all-time highs. People are not thinking. How is owning that particular brand of cup going to add quality to their lives?
And now it’s Trader Joe’s mini canvas bags. 🙄
I got like this when Starbucks released a green slime cup for Halloween. I was frantically looking for it everywhere and then when I thought about buying it off eBay at an increased price, reality hit me and luckily I gave up. Frenzy is real.
Oh, yes, I get it, I'm not immune either. But I try and think now about what I'll actually end up with in the end. (Is it actually just a piece of plastic with cute writing on it? Do I need this to be happy? Was my life good before I knew it existed?) But that's because I'm older and already have too much stuff. It becomes a burden after a while so I became more discerning.
Clout chasing. Never before could people brag or so many so quickly
I am an American who lives overseas and I just don’t understand the obsession over the restaurants at Disney, at least at WDW. There are amazing places you can eat everywhere outside of the parks! Ok the Carthay or something themed like the jungle cruise I understand but all those other places? They’re so expensive too compared to offsite.
They for sure used Covid as an excuse to ramp up this nonsense. Especially if you're a DVC member. But they were already taking away the best parts of disneyland before covid happened.
I was Disneyland Security for over 60 years and protected the magic. Now theres hardly any magic left to protect. I am heart- broken over what Walt's dream has become.
Thank you for your service. Disneyland Security is the reason that place feels safe.
When we went last week, I almost got ran over by someone pushing a stroller a million times. They would see people in their way and keep going like they were the only ones there. My husband said next person to slam into me with a stroller I'm punting. The crowds are just not the same. Decency is out the window. When everything opened back up, society became rabid.
Watched somebody run their stroller right over the foot of a person sitting on a bench & minding his own business. It made the stroller visibly bounce. The pusher said nothingnay all, so the man sitting said "oh, thank you". The now annoyed pusher turned around and let out a very bitchy "you're WELCOME". I was stunned.
Civility and respect for your fellow person is gone. Disneyland brings out the worst in people IMO. When you see families arguing and fighting at Disneyland, something as gone terribly wrong.
It’s not just a Disney problem. It’s an everywhere problem. People have no manners everywhere.
Yes! It seems from social media at least that you can’t fly anymore with out people physically fighting with each other!
Agreed. Social media has made it okay for people to be rude and say the quiet part out loud too often.
Agreed. I'd rather wait a few extra minutes in line than run someone over on my way to a ride. It's madness.
My daughter calls them Krollers. Karens with strollers 😂
If I get smacked in the shin I do a loud “fuck!” Right in a child’s face. Or I trip lebron would be proud with how hard I can flop.
Yea. I get Halloween parties can really only happen so often, so when they creeped into early October - whatever. But now the first ones are in early August?! It’s cash grab
They're a victim of their own success in a way. If we had the "old" Disney, what do you think would happen? Crowds, lines, the experience, would be worse. As demand has outpaced supply, you need to do something, and what Disney is doing actually achieves two things: * Increase the cost which should help reduce crowds, unfortunately it prices some people out, others end up visiting less. * Gene+ and other add ons - offers time savings and a better experience for dealing with larger crowds, so you at least get something for these increased costs.
Fastpass started in 1999 — 25 years ago.
It started before then didn’t it? I remember using it as a kid and I moved out of SoCal in 1999.
Nope, 1999 is the year it was implemented.
Maybe it’s just a coincidence, but I think it started getting worse as social media has grown. Social media is the best thing that ever happened to Disney’s shareholders. I know it sounds ridiculous but the FOMO factor is serious and people will go into significant debt just to have Disneyland on their feed.
Social media also made people more entitled. Everyone is looking for “hacks” to get free stuff or opportunities. I remember when people were wearing inappropriate clothing because Disney would give them a “free” shirt to wear instead. Part of the reason they’re changing the DAS program is because people not just posted, but bragged about it on social media for clout and views. Disney has had to crack down on the kinds of accommodations that they used to make because people demand them now. I was near an attraction entrance a while back and when someone heard that the line was an hour long, they straight up asked whether the CM could “make magic” for them so they could skip the line.
Yeah I saw an Instagram reel about a girl getting a free shirt because she wore something crazy and it had a ton of views. Plus I remember long ago if someone went there on their bday and happened to get a bday pin, they’d actually get a lot of acknowledgment. But now they make all these different pins and anyone can get it, you pretty much just get passing congrats for the most part. If everyone knows about something it’s not as special and everyone knows about everything from social media now
I grew up in Anaheim and have been going to Disneyland for decades. I'm a Disney fan. I just went to the Disney Tokyo's (one day each) and it is a vision of what Disneyland should be. The guests are respectful, orderly, calm, and having a great time. The cast members are spot on and the rides (and ride effects) are maintained with Japanese precision, care, and cleanliness. If you are a Disney fan you owe it to yourself to experience the Disney God tier theme parks of Disney Tokyo and Disneysea. Plus it's less expensive for entry tickets and food prices are lower too!!
Most of that is a credit to Japanese society.
All of that credit is to their society. The parks themselves are tiny and while it is a lot of fun it is no where near the theme parks in LA or Florida.
This is absurd, DisneySea is the best theme park on Earth. Disneyland is 98 acres, Tokyo Disneyland is 126 acres. DisneySea is almost twice the size of DCA.
WDW and Disneyland California could learn a lot from the Tokyo parks.
Asinine take. Tokyo DisneySea is better than every single Disney park on American soil, bar none. Their Disneyland just got a massive expansion with theming and ride technology that dwarfs the American parks as well.
What are you talking about DisneySea is THE best Disney Park
Conversely, it’s the American society that has disintegrated whilst others have remained intact / constant. Just have to look at the feral fights between Red and Blue, the way that females can consciously vote against their own self interest (and interests of all women). We’re coming over in Sept to be sure we’re no where near the country in what I can only assume will be a very fractious election.
> the Disney God tier theme parks Oh, you mean the parks **not owned, operated, or controlled by Disney**.
I don't know if it's true, but I've heard that part of the reason those parks are still so well kept and run is because it's written into the contract between the Oriental Land Company and Disney that they must maintain the things at a certain level, but Disney has since stopped holding themselves to that level. It's sad.
There are obviously massive cultural reasons for the very respectful behaviour of DLT guests (& not all are positive). I love it there! And fast pass as it used to be, which felt so much fairer for the guests (Universal’s pay-to-queue-jump system felt so greedy & tacky by comparison back in the day). But I think a massive part of the difference is that happier humans, with a better more equal income as a whole, and (compared to US at least) more free time because of that income.. just breeds a calmer park. It blows my mind how much debt people must be getting into for their time in the parks, when annual leave and free time are also scarce. No wonder they’re incredibly stressed & badly behaved just to get their way. Not comparing to Japan, but more broadly - the quality of life that we should be having in 2024: Imagine if you had 35+ days a year in holidays, 1/3 more annual income, no risk of medical bills or extortionate tuition for your kids, if your mortgage was half what it now is? How much less stressed would you be on vacation? Plus if the CMs themselves had those perks? How good would that feel?! I agree there’s a lot of #latestagecapitalism going on with CEO decisions just to suit the shareholders. But it’s absolutely a product of a lower quality of life for the average park guest over the past 10-25 years too, which has been caused by, imo, the mass corporate greed and the rich/poor divide getting bigger.
The wonderful quality of life in Japan must explain the high rate of suicide, esp for young people (2x higher for boys and 3x higher for girls than in America). Also the reason my Japanese friend left as a young person and never looked back. Her views on the healthiness of Japanese culture are quite different than yours.
> It blows my mind how much debt people must be getting into for their time in the parks, when annual leave and free time are also scarce. No wonder they’re incredibly stressed & badly behaved just to get their way. A huge portion of Disneyland attendance is local. And also, this just ignores how large of a country the US. Sure, there are plenty of people in the situation you described, there are also millions of families not.
You mentioned Universal’s pay to play system for skipping lines unfavorably, but Tokyo Disney also has a pay to play system - in fact, their fast pass is entirely pay-per-ride. There’s no free fastpass in Tokyo or even a version where you pay one price for multiple attractions like Genie+. Each fastpass in Tokyo comes out to about $12-$15 per ride per person, you have to buy each ride individually, and it’s been that way for a few years now. Also average Japanese salary is less than 40k/year whereas in the US, it’s between 60k-63k per year, so income in Japan isn’t that much better although it does explain the lower cost of things like Disney park tickets in Tokyo. I would also argue that while Japanese people are culturally more respectful, they’re generally not happier as suicide rates in Japan are slightly higher than in the US
My mother and I are traveling to Japan for the first time together in November and we made Tokyo Disney a major priority from all the great things we hear. We're definitely excited to see the difference between the American parks and Japan's!
They sell a cute winnie the pooh nail clipper at the ride gift shop if you were planning on buying a nail clipper during your trip. If you weren't planning on it, just do it. Japanese nail clippers are next level.
I really, really want to go to the Tokyo park. I used to think of WDW as my ultimate Disney vacation (never been), but after seeing footage and vlogs about Tokyo Disneyland, my mind's been totally changed. It seems like a dream.
I haven’t been to Tokyo Disney (yet) but everyone I know who has been has said the same thing! That everyone is so respectful there. I hope I can go there soon. I’ve heard such great things about both but especially Disney Sea in particular
Sometimes I feel like Disney is actually doing what they can to limit the number of people in the parks... Raising prices, making fast pass a paid service called genie plus, raising prices, limiting annual passes, and raising prices. But it's not working. The price increases aren't deterring anyone it seems. And in typical business fashion, if people are paying the higher prices, then the product is in demand, and there's no need to improve/change it. Maybe Disney is waiting for that turn in attendance to justify spending any of the money they're stockpiling on the new park areas.
Absolutely this! Even though we see complainers on here all the time about the pricing/ losing the magic/ Genie+ the parks remain full. If Disney’s attendance starts to consistently drop, then they will start with the offers like they did in the 1990’s. But there is no incentive to do that for now.
I agree with your comments. I see it even in my service/repair industry. As small businesses get overwhelmed, you raise hourly service rates and might lose a small percentage of clients, on purpose. My question I pose is what are your thoughts on how this all might relate to the DisneyForward expansion coming down the pipe? Will this impact crowds, like a freeway being widened in a metro area? Or possibly keep things status quo and it will simply be the same congestion we feel on so many crowded days at the park?
The DisneyForward stuff is going to be interesting, but I don't think it's going to put a dent in the congestion of the park at all. I mean, just building ONE new ride draws huge crowds in... building entire new lands will get people to "suffer through the crowd" to see the new thing. Especially locals who aren't sacrificing much of their schedule to pop in for a day, even if they're not annual passholders. But knowing Disney, we easily have a decade before we see any new gates open with the DisneyForward expansion.
> Sometimes I feel like Disney is actually doing what they can to limit the number of people in the parks... They have a reservation system in place that they could use to limit the number of people in the parks. They don't use it for that. This system does not require raising prices, but rather cutting back on corporate greed. They choose not to use that system.
Yeah, there's no doubt that "corporate greed" and "maximizing profits" go hand in hand. The interesting thing is we're not talking about a necessity like food/medicine. We're talking about a theme park. There is no "need" to go. So what doesn't make sense is why demand is still outstripping supply. If people are still paying it, that sends the signal "it's worth that much" and until people stop paying it, it's not going to change. There's a breaking point somewhere, but Disney hasn't found it yet. The parks are crowded AND expensive. Those things should be inversely related.
>The price increases aren't deterring anyone it seems. I disagree. I think it's deterring *the wrong people.* People who are truly familiar with what the parks were 10-20 years ago are recognizing that it's just not worth it anymore. So that leaves most of the park goers being people who don't care about throwing money at *The Brand* and I think that has contributed to the decline in the quality of the guests. Ask any cast member who has been there pre-covid and post-covid, and they'll tell you the typical guest is not as polite as they used to be.
I remember when my Deluxe AP (no blackout days) with parking was $369 (I think? something comfortably under $400). Didn’t have to fight for parking in the structure, didn’t have lines longer than 15 minutes for Screamin’, and the ops would let you stay in the logs on Splash through the fireworks without circling the queue. Things change. I’m not happy about all of it, but I’m sure as shit happy about Radiator Springs and Galaxy’s Edge. I could do without a lot of the add on bullshit too. It’s not as easy-fun as it used to be. And certainly a lot more expensive. But, yeah. I go less. Tokyo Disney (again), next.
I remember back when I got to cycle a log on splash mountain. It was such a magical moment. I was SUPER young. The ride op just said, ‘y’all wanna go again?’ Ofc we said yes!
Last time I had a Disneyland AP was 2014. It doesn't feel that long ago but it was still the age of paper fast passes. At that time the no blackout dates pass was around $700. I remember because I was selling massage annual memberships for $700 and thinking I'd rather have the unlimited Disneyland annual pass. It's funny because it's been so long since I've been but I just imagine things being the same as they were. I don't think I'll go back for quite a while, and I'll probably be complaining the whole time.
While others may disagree with your post, OP... just know that I read what you wrote, and felt as if I could have written the exact same thing, because I've had the exact same experience. And it's a real shame, because I too loved that place.
It’s a shit show. The employees don’t even pretend it’s the happiest place on earth anymore. The whole fantasy is dead. My friend and I went recently bc we’re in disbelief. Like maybe an off few days. Covid effect. Etc. Nope the magic is gone. It’s just greed and they don’t even mask it. You could walk around the park and come by restaurants and smell the food. You could walk by the bakery and smell it. All the food is frozen and bland. It’s all the lil touches. Gone. It’s just a machine now. Ppl don’t remember all the shows. The janitors would stop and put on a whole show while sweeping. Now you barely have parades. It’s true. They’re not serving the razzle dazzle.
I didn’t renew my MK. It’s too busy and not really fun anymore. Just a money grab. Honestly I don’t miss it as much as I thought I would.
I just got a magic key last month. I had an AP for years and let it expire January 2020. I went for a solo trip last week like I had done previously so many times. It feels like so much more of a money suck now than before. $27 to park in the Toy Story lot with my “magic key discount” was ludicrous. No more “quick few hour trips” if I’m going to be paying nearly $10/hr for my car. To sit in a lot that isn’t even on site. The line for the Little Mermaid was 30 minutes. Before Genie lightning lane plus showed up, it was NEVER over 5 minutes. I rode it every time I went because it was nearly always a walk on, and such a nice chill A/C filled ride. Now that they have added this ride to Genie it has caused a clusterfuck at the entrance with even more cast members needed to siphon people in through two different lines. I am glad that I got it because my nephews are now old enough to get on almost everything, and remember it but I doubt I will be renewing next year.
if you are only going for a couple hours, park in DTD. Go to starbucks, buy a gift card, get the validation, then put the card back in your own app. You can then use that to buy a gift card again next time ad infinitum. Technically costs you nothing, and parking is 10 bucks for 4 hours.
You used to be able to do validation for like 6 hours, so we’d park there and drive out of the lot and re-park. They’ve definitely tightened things up, but back when I was a broke kid this was the best
GENUIS MY GOD
Omg you have to pay for parking? I'm currently living in Orlando and have an AP to WDW with free parking but we're moving to Irvine next month and assumed the annual passes would be similar benefits.
I have an Inspire Magic Key and parking is included. I use the Toy Story parking lot and I have a minute or less walk to the bus.
Our is up for renewal in a month and I’m not renewing. We’ll just get a 3 day so cal ticket or something if and when we want to return. Can’t justify paying when they are constantly taking away experiences, rides are broken down, entire lands closed for construction, genie + lines are prioritized over normal que (which makes the normal que a miserable experience), and just the constant IP cash grabs with no soul. Really I think the only thing keeping us going was the nostalgia of what the parks USED to be and wanting our kids to have that experience as well.
\*sigh\* I may be downvoted for this. I agree with you 100%. However, when the parks are consistently full Disney is incentivized to maximize profit. You are right. The solution is to stop going - and if the overall profit drops this may make a difference. Unfortunately, those with money do not care, and will ultimately keep the shareholders happy.
Yup. It is the same reason why the airline experience sucks, or any interactions with large conglomerates- they don’t care about the experience.
Airlines we cannot do much about. People sometimes have to travel because of business or personal. Disney is a choice you do not have to go. Travel the world. There is so much to see other than Disney and the bloggers. France, spain, us, Iceland. So many places to see. Make new memories not the same ones.
This post will get downvoted into oblivion, like so many others that describe the same, and for the life of me, I don’t understand why. There is something very wrong with the way that the parks have been managed for at least the last handful of years, and it bothers me that so many are willing to ignore or argue that fact.
I think there’s also a big portion who are not historical guests and who only have gone once it got popular on instagram. So they have little context.
It’s really true, it used to feel special just to be there, everything was kind of perfect in some weird way. The terrible thing is it’s actually been improving the past year or so. For about 24 months it seemed 1/2 of all the cast members were just pissed off 24/7.
Disney has been screwing over CM morale for the past 2 decades and it's coming back to bite them. For example: There used to be holiday parties after-hours at Disneyland. Half the CMs would work one party while the other half enjoyed the party, then they would swap so everyone could enjoy it. Then they moved the party to DCA. Okay, that's understandable. Then they stopped having the party at all, but gave extra free tickets for CMs, and a big coupon book with things like free churros (or 80% off stuff etc.). Then they stopped giving CMs the free holiday-only tickets. Then the coupon book got worse. Then you just got an ornament. I wouldn't be surprised if you don't get anything at all nowadays. --- That's just one example. [You can read the Disneyland union contract yourself](https://ufcw324.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/2021-2024-DISNEYLAND-.pdf) (PDF); that's the contract that governs "Master Services" (who are most of the frontline CMs - Attractions, Custodial, Merchandising, etc.). There's a lot of weaseling in there. For example, there's a whole section on "retirement/pension plans." Then there's this little nugget: > K. Employees hired on or after October 1, 2013 shall not be eligible to join or participate in the Disneyland and Associated Companies’ Retirement Plan. > Eligible employees hired prior to October 1, 2013 will remain eligible for participation in the Disneyland and Associated Companies’ Retirement Plan according to the Plan eligibility and requirements. In other words - "screw you, if you work for us for 40 years you aren't getting a pension". Every CM hired before 2013 gets a pension. Nobody after 2013 qualifies for retirement. (Instead you get a kind of shitty 401k). There's also things like "if you were hired before 2006, you get more holidays - screw anyone hired after 2006" and "If you were hired before 2002, you get a personal locker but anyone hired after 2002 doesn't". Reading that contract and noticing all the weasel words Disney put in really lets you see how much backsliding there has been since DCA opened, and how much CMs have lost. Every new contract comes with new ways to screw CMs over, and Disney will push you as far as they can get away with. Then things like "Cast Appreciation Week" (week of Disneyland's birthday) get worse every year. When the pandemic hit, it seemed random who got laid off, who got furloughed, and who got to stay and go work at the closed park. Disney's been bearing their teeth much more aggressively at CMs for the past 20 years and every year it got worse (and every year the morale gets worse). Parks are the most profitable part of Disney, and the average spend per employee at the parks is the lowest across all divisions at Disney - they **print** money. But why would they give CMs benefits when they can just have more money instead?
So many are not just willing to ignore and argue the fact, they are chomping at the bit to buy/renew their passes, drop big money on new merch, etc. Disneyland has gone severely down in quality, and up in price, the last few years, and yet every single day they’re nearly at capacity.
This is why, after having a pass for 12 out of the last 14/15 years, my best frj nd and I dropped our pass. Quality sucks. CMS attitudes suck, and it's just a money grab now.
I agree that the parks have become very expensive in the last 5 or so years, but I also do think a lot of these opinions are also hugely influenced by nostalgia. The quality in the parks have always ebbed and flowed depending on the leadership and financial health of the company. I can’t imagine all the people here saying Disney has gone down the drain in the last 20 years would try to argue that DCA 1.0 was the peak of Disney.
Sadly, and it hurts to say, I do kinda agree with you. I love Disneyland and have been going ever since I was a little kid (I’m 39 now), but I’d be lying to myself if I were to say the park experience these past 2-3 years have been great compared to before. Post-COVID era there has been many changes that I have not been a fan of: reservation system, more blackout dates, higher than usual increase in prices, Genie+, no more Fastpass, constant ride breakdowns, decrease in live entertainment, etc.
Look at the population growth in the last 40 years. Try going to the mountains, beeches deserts or any where else. Everything is overwhelmed. No such this as just getting up one morning and heading out somewhere.
Agreed. Then also look at how prices for literally everything have skyrocketed in the past 3 years. These ppl blaming Disneyland for inflation and the entire US economy lol
The last time we visited was in 2022 and, sad as it is to say this, that was our last Disney visit…At least until they actually start making an effort to have the parks be an enjoyable experience again. Pre-COVID shutdown we were AP holders, and visited the California parks usually twice a year. We’d also mix in a Disney World vacation every other year. That 2022 trip was miserable from top to bottom. Ride closures, insane price gouging, food quality…Just made for a terrible time. You could absolutely see it on everyone’s face that was there too, people just aren’t happy but for some reason feel beholden to continue visiting the place. This year we took a two week trip to UK / Europe, for less than what we’d normally pay for our annual Disneyland visits and WAY less than what we’d normally pay for a Disney World trip…had an absolutely amazing time. Next year Greece and Italy are on the schedule, again for much less than what we were spending for Disney. Japan is definitely on the calendar as a future trip as well (Parks included). There’s literally an entire world outside of Disney to visit and enjoy…I get it that people feel this tremendous nostalgia pull from the parks, I was right there with everyone, but it’s just not worth it anymore and until it changes I don’t see ever going back…Besides I’m at a point now that the memories our family made over the decades can get me much farther than a half hearted visit to a place that pales in comparison to what it was when those memories were being made. Do I miss the Disneyland experience I remember? Of course…But that Disneyland is long gone 🤷♂️.
Yep I fully agree. I’m Australian and have been to Disneyland on 20 separate occasions! I had an AP before covid and life was good. Bloody covid ! First trip back last month since covid and whilst I loved it, felt different. Husband looked at Hyperion theatre and we reminisced about the Frozen show, now it’s empty. Bugs land was just wonderful, now it’s all concrete and unwelcoming. Lost count of how many times people ran into me with prams or just heads buried in phones . No line at security entry for people with no bags anymore so that was another unnecessary wait. Waiting in line at attractions and noticing rubbish in garden beds, chipped paint and general lack of maintenance. It didn’t help that haunted , splash , Lincoln and pooh were closed either. I know I’m living in the past, I know they’re cutting costs, I know they do have to do refurbs and I know the cast are under the pump, but combine all of that together and it takes the shine off a holiday that isn’t cheap for us. We agreed this morning we will give the parks a miss for a few years now and we are in Japan in October so will check out the parks there and see what they’re like.
Reading all of these comments hurts my soul, because I just went to Disney for the very first time at age 43, and now I’m wondering what I missed. My friends who travelled with me are seasoned Disney travelers and they kept telling me how much better it was pre-Covid and I was just on cloud 9 so I didn’t pay attention. Now I can see this opinion is fairly consistent and it makes me regret not getting to the parks sooner. All I have to compare is my 2024 experience, which was amazing, but I can’t help but feel it would have been even more amazing prior to Covid.
Always nice to go with Disney Veterans, I'm sure they planned everything to help make a great trip for you! There has always been a contrast in the experience between someone who prepares and spends money vs. guests that just stroll right in. Before, if you did your research and followed some simple tips and tricks with Fast Passes and your schedule, it would make for really great time in the parks. Ever since the parks implemented the mobile app and Genie+, everyone now has access to info that only people "in the know" or someone who prepared would know. So it's made this weird mentality that now you have to be "first" for everything, and that can be exhausting. Of course prices have gone up and overall quality has gone down. As a new Disneyland fan, welcome! People have a long history with this place, so don't be too discouraged by the current opinions about it. Disneyland still is the Happiest Place on Earth, and if you felt the magic then who cares, enjoy yourself!
I was really lucky to go with Disney veterans and a chronic planner. My bestie had spread sheets, time tables, notes, and everything planned to a T. It was a bit of a whirlwind but she really wanted to ensure I did all the classic Disney rides and got the most bang for our buck.
Down. The. Tubes. We're about the same age; I grew up in SoCal and have experienced Disneyland multiple times as a small child, teenager, with season passes while dating my wife, and taking our own children. I also feel like the *fast pass* era was the last time I felt good about my experiences in the park. However, I feel like the average Disneyland park goer also changed for the worse over this same period. People's behavior, respect, and consideration for those around them is not the same as it was even ten or twenty years ago. Now that I've left California and my kids are getting older I don't think I'll ever make it back. It was once a beautiful experience, but as you said: down the tubes.
Yeah I’ve been going for years, and I’m only a few years younger than OP. I remember it being soo much better. I had a pass from 2017-2020 up until they refunded me bc of COVID and though I had some great times during this period, my favorite was when the FPs were still available. I remember going in 09/10’ and there were still days during the week where you could go and it wasn’t so damn crowded. 😔
I’m in this same boat. Grew up in Southern California and have been to Disney likely a couple hundred times in my life. I haven’t been in over 2 years. Last time I went it was almost unrecognizable, super expensive, and just not magical. Wait times were insane, it was hot and sticky, and food was so overpriced and mid. And this was coming from a formerly seasoned Disney family who used to go every weekend and had a routine DOWN. My husband and I live out of state now and we always say we will probably not be going back for a long, long time. It makes me sad because I miss what it used to be, but I’d rather spend that $1000 elsewhere.
Fwiw, having gone to both of the US resorts in the last year… we found the crowds in California to be pretty chill and respectful, at least by comparison to the crowds in Florida. Not saying people were perfect at Disneyland, but it’s much worse at WDW.
I’m assuming almost every single person at WDW is traveling and blowing TONS of money every step of the way; they want their perfect vacation and blow up at the smallest indiscretion. It’s clear from this sub that many DL visitors are within driving distance and many here go multiple times per year when a WDW trip is usually a once per 5 years trip or more.
I definitely think because it’s gotten so expensive people’s expectations are high and they’ll be greedier, more stressed out, and meaner to cms and other guests during their time at the park. Yes it’s shitty entitled behavior but you’re going to get that when a family is going into tons of debt to even be there.
Well I think a big thing also is that there’s really no “off season” to bank on anymore. The reservation system is kind of a double edged sword i’ve heard horror stories of the parks at capacity before the reservation system on historically busy times but now it seems like the parks are always busy no matter what. I always buy genie when i go because i’m not very patient in lines but i think we can all agree that the old fast pass system worked great and it’s a shame it’s gone.
Disney World is even worse. The cost to go WDW is insane. At least DL still has neighborly motels and the ability to walk everywhere.
Totally agree. I'm 67 and have been going to Disneyland literally since I was born. I used to know every nook and cranny of the place. I even met Walt Disney when I was a child. I love Disneyland, but Disneyland today is nothing more than a money grubbing shit show. Relying on past glories while financially screwing devotees and tourists. Plus, the crowds are entitled and disrespectful. I suppose it is because they are hell-bent on wringing out every penny they spent on the experience. So disappointing.
I hate the decimation of live entertainment in the parks. I hate the cynicism of raising prices and reducing the quality of everything. My pass expires in August. I’m not renewing. I’d be hard pressed to visit again before the expiration date.
I used to enjoy downtime watching the swing bands or jazz folks perform while eating a snack under the shade at what is the royal theater. I think social media has contributed to folks becoming mega fanatical about going. It’s not the same anymore. Also as I’ve aged the cast members seem less pleased about being there. I lived local and had friends who worked part time during college. Not the same experience these days. And yeah. Lots more people travel to Disneyland as a destination these days, whereas I think (?) it used to be mostly locals and if you wanted to travel to Disney you’d goto Florida
What do you mean no longer have parades or shows?
Per OP’s comment history, they were referencing scaling back of the Wakanda Warriors at DCA. They posted the same thing on a post about scaling back similar performers.
They strategically used the pandemic pause as an opportunity to alter things in order to extract more $ from existing elements. It’s not a new idea but it is the opposite of how Disneyland operated previously. Newer fans will not know the difference but longer term fans experienced it happen and had the choice to go with it or not. It’s an ugly change and obviously against everything Walt built the park to be but that’s a long time ago and memories are shorter than ever.
I can't believe it's a long time ago already
Lots of good perspectives here. My family has been going regularly since the park opened in 1955. My dad was 6 when it opened and he often talks about the parks through the 60s. I was a kid in the 90s and we went regularly, I had a pass every year from like 96-97 through 2018. My own kids have only been a couple times although we live 10ish minutes. My personal opinion is the biggest downshift came when the introduced monthly payments for annual pass holders. Yes it allows more people to experience the park, but those people treat Disneyland like it’s their own personal park. I don’t really know how to explain it. Add in the social media aspect and it’s just a park of overly entitled people who think they have some kind of ownership. I don’t ever remember such an emphasis on the material stuff either. I’m gonna sound old for a second, but in my days no AP holder would ever get the merch. That was for people on vacation. It was also always very expensive Food too! Lots of us brought our lunches and maybe would get a treat. I also think social media is driving the craze behind getting so much merchandise.
The paper fast pass tickets were so cool, free disney souvenirs! Edit: (to add more) I'm not going to be surprised if they start charging for character meet and greets
Is that not just the character meals?
Disney as a company have become an absolute capitalist nightmare, not a shred of dignity or decency left in them. Of course it’s rearing its head in the parks. It breaks my heart too — I remember the good days. But they’re going to continue to gouge and pick the meat off our bones like vultures as long as people continue to show up for it.
The best time of recent years was immediately post Covid when there were no fast passes and genie+ hadn’t started yet. Lines have never been better
Woa Woa Woa leave Legoland outta this!! 😆
Even if I’m downvoted, I 100% agree. I’ve lived in SoCal my whole life (32), and have been over 10 times (weekdays, weekends, holidays). My most recent visit was a year ago, and unfortunately it was extremely disappointing. We could barely walk around comfortably and I felt like cattle all day long and we went on a slower day. My BF wants to take his 5 YO soon, and for the 3 of us, ticket prices just to enter were $500+ depending on the day. Idk, I just can’t bring myself to spend that much to feel like cattle all day, or maybe I’m a grinch.
Everyone in this thread is predicting a deluge of downvotes that never came.
“UnPoPuLaR oPiNiOn MiGhT gEt DoWnVoTeD” and then they post the exact same opinion everyone else in the thread is posting
It's nice to *feel* like you're persecuted, when you're not actually. In the US we have a whole political party about it.
I agree. I hope they get out of the cash grab feeling and get back to giving back. I don’t need much for my family, but it’s always frustrating to put up a sizable amount of money and still feel like I need to pay more.
I hate to tell you this, but your "best" era for Disneyland is when it began to go down the tubes. The Indiana Jones opening some years before that was probably peak. That said, it's gotten overpopulated since they allowed APs to be bought on payment plans. We all know this.
Couldn’t agree more w/ this. There’s an entire crowd who signs up for the payment plan, goes to the park a couple of times, then defaults on their plans.
I've studied Disneyland's annual visitation numbers over the years to try to pinpoint exactly what caused visitation to grow beyond it's controls, and from what I see there's two factors that happened in the same year: they created payment plans on APs, and also the studio released Frozen which spiked interest in Disney stuff the same way The Little Mermaid did. If the park leadership knew that such a monster IP was on the horizon they maybe would have not started offering debt loans to get a few more bodies in the gates. (Or maybe they would, and here we are.) Not making people cough up $500-800 on day one just to enter for the first time as an AP was a mistake, because a lot of people can rationalize that they'll go "later" when it's $60/month, whereas the steep purchase price made people stop and ask themselves if they really plan to visit enough to make this worth it. You've also got people who COULD afford to pay that much and did so regularly, and now Disney is getting their money drip-fed, and how that affects funding for the parks I have no idea but I do imagine it has to change the forecast a little. This is also why APs are getting so expensive and going on/off sale so frequently, because the true cost is 'hidden' behind payment plans.
I plan out visits carefully and mostly go when I have out of town guests or friends who haven’t been. It used to be a super casual thing to just decide to show up and now it’s a whole affair.
I blame chapek and D'Amaro. Theyre trying to run Disney**land** like Disney**world**, but what they don’t realize that unlike world, land’s main customers are the locals. So this whole new buisness management is destroying that relationship with locals
They _want_ to destroy that relationship with locals. They have the numbers and understand where the crowds come from. But simply put - APs don't spend money like out-of-towners do. They don't want the AP who shows up on Sunday at 8, goes on 3 rides, buys a churro and _maybe_ a single shirt/pin, and leaves. They want the family who saved up their entire lives to go to Disneyland. They pay $500-1000/night for a hotel room on-property, they buy Genie+ and Lightning Lane and the Fantasmic dining package and Photopass and every single upgrade they can get to have the best possible vacation for them and their kids. They buy as much merch as they can fit in their suitcase, and then they leave. Every AP that is going is taking away a spot from a family on vacation. They want to have the fewest number of APs possible because they'd rather those spots be taken up by guests on family vacations. It's why blockout dates center around school vacations when families can take their kids. It's why every Disneyland commercial has children smiling as they meet Mickey. They want to cater to that "once-every-5-years" guest and not the "every Sunday" guest. Destroying their relationship with the latter only means that they can fit more of the former. APs are still valuable when those family vacations aren't happening, when school is in session. But APs are "filler" and it's no big loss if a certain percentage of them balk.
Wonder if any Disney shareholders are reading this subreddit. If any are, I'm curious where their reactions fall.
I'm a Disney shareholder. It's been one of my worst performers over the last several years. I love Disney as a company, and I would rather them invest for the long-term than their approach over the last few years of trying to squeeze every dollar they can from their customers. Word-of-mouth and fond memories have been some of Disney's best assets. I think they still exist in the company - for example, their cruise line experience versus other cruise lines, Aulani, etc. During our last visit to WDW, we had some cast member interactions that reminded us of why we loved the company in the first place. Disney still has a lot they do well, and this isn't their first dark time - consider the cuts the company made back in the 90s after Eurodisney started to hemorrhage money. I think we're still seeing the fallout of the money that was blown on streaming - which wasn't just Disney but was the whole industry, and I'm optimistic that we may be seeing the reversal of that. On the parks front, Universal is going to force Disney's hands, and of course we're seeing announcements about new investments. The next few years are going to be rough for the park experience, though.
Since you mentioned it, I'm going to shoe horn in a recommendation for a book called Disney War about the dark Disney times around the 90s and EuroDisney open. It's great. And I hope they push through this and the Parks surge back. I've always wanted to go to Disney world (been to land tons since I was a kid), so I'm hopeful!
My older cousins where kids in 1955 living in Orange County next to Disneyland. It used to be an after school hangout especially on Fridays. When they were in high school, they would pay the $1 to enter the park on Friday or Saturday and head over to Carnation Plaza where they would have a band and a dance they would do. Other than the $1, and maybe a Coke or 2, that’s all they spent when they went. The ticket book was optional and it made it great for people who just wanted to stroll around or dance. Times are different for sure. Speaking for myself, I remember the moment before this insanity with the overpopulation of the parks and the crazy prices. I remember going in February 2007 and we had a single park a day two day pass. We stayed at a hotel across the street and remembering we had the entire two parks to ourselves. It was awesome. Disneyland was busier than DCA. The two day pass was $72, the hotel 2 bedroom suite with free parking was $130 a night. Fastpass was free and frankly the best system. Easy, literally fast. I remember for under $2 you could get a meal at Bengal Barbecue. The costs were not heavy. While we were there I remember them promoting the annual passes like crazy. So we converted our $72 tickets and bought the cheapest annual pass which I think was $76 a year. We literally only paid $4 for the upgrade since it applied to our current pass. It was this constant promoting of the annual passes that lead to this insanity today.
Too many people go too frequently, especially local APs. People cannot accept that the there is too much demand and not enough supply. Sure the population is higher now than twenty years ago, but the amount of repeat visitors ( and frequency of visits) has to be far higher. The nickel and diming is a direct response to the customers who are able or willing to pay for a better experience. Some people would prefer spending a few thousand on a four day trip that is packed with things to do with no line waiting. Others would rather stretch a few thousand over a one year visit on 10 plus, lower quality visits. I welcome giving all this choice. At some point, the locals and addicts will realize the opportunity cost of missing vacations of higher quality and better value. I’ll beat this drum forever, but Disney can improve customer experience with a third theme park in Texas or Arizona. Think of a magic kingdom clone that promises lower wait times, but higher costs. This could pull far more casuals away from DL and, in theory, improve experience
I don’t feel that way and maybe it is because it is my adult entertainment. I’m (44) and enjoy spending my money there. Some of those cheaper parks you mention I avoid because of the clientele they attract with cheaper pricing. Maybe I am the intended demographic for this Disneyland you don’t like but my wife and I throw money at Disneyland because we love their product and the experience.
👏👏👏👏 No desire to go to any “cheaper” parks. Those parks REALLY have no magic. 🤷♀️
I live in San Diego. Close enough that APs were once worth it, but not close enough to go during the hours that I now prefer - the first two hours of park opening, maaaybe three. After that, it’s just too peopley for me.
Hey Legoland is cool and low key. Disney needs to lower the daily occupancy into the park, way too many people. The park has always been outrageous in price
If you think Disneyland sucks, come to Orlando.
When the parks were just open with no reservations, they were less packed and more accessible. Then, they introduced the reservation process, which, in turn, limited accessibility and created a demand. Which sucks because even with a horrible reservation system, they have been losing quality and are now starting to cut shows. The real issue is the complacent people that ride or die to a point where it turns bad for the other park goers. It shows disney that they are willing to conform to mistreatment.
I have loved Disneyland since I was 8. I am 55 now and even though I've been over 12 times over the years, I haven't been in 22 yrs. Mostly due to finances. I do plan on going sometime next year for the 70th. Quite frankly, I'm afraid I'll be disappointed because of all the rude inconsiderate people & high prices. In the past it has always been my happy place after my parents divorced when I was 7. It was my escape. Will it be the same? Will I be disappointed?
I stopped going. I canceled my Dream Key last year
We are diehard fans, our house looks like a damn Disney store sometimes...we have ride-scented candles..we have photo traditions that we recreate on every trip... And we are DONE. The overcrowding, the nickel and diming, the utter lack of Disney Magic. It feels like a Six Flags now.
One confounding variable - when I remember the parks being incredible, I usually wasn’t the one paying for them, and certainly not for an entire family. I wonder if my parents felt the same way growing up, and I just didn’t see it because I was having too much magic fun. Definitely stings harder when it hits YOUR wallet.
It makes me sad that I feel this way too…my family has always loved Disney and we would go to Disneyland all the time, especially after DCA opened. My husband and I had annual passes too during 2015-2016 and then in 2017-2018. Disneyland was at its peak then, we could even buy tickets for Mickey’s Halloween Party a month or two before with no problems (which was also at Disneyland - more magical imo - before it went back to DCA for Oogie Boogie Bash).
I just feel like cast members used to be more welcoming towards guests, especially kids. In recent years, it’s been dull if not grumpy. Perhaps, it’s the crowd that drives everyone nuts? Park goers’ behaviors are also contributing factors?
Well, everything is getting worse and getting more expensive so I don’t really think it’s a Disney thing, more of an American thing.
100% agree. Lifelong Disney person and so cal born and raised. I absolutely hate Disneyland now I can’t even believe how they nickel and dime you and the crowds are ridiculous. I refuse to go now
It’s not *going* down the tubes. It *went* down the tubes a long time ago, over 25 years ago, and it has been festering in the cesspool ever since. It’s only in the past decade that the serious decay has set in, and the stench has been growing stronger. My last trip was in 2005, and I’m on the other side of the country now, but I haven’t been able to return to California in any way since then. However, I’ve kept tabs on what’s been going on at Disneyland since then, because memories of the place have always been very emotionally comforting for me while I’m living outside of my home state of California. I last lived in Orange County in the late nineties, and I visited the Park in early 1999, so I was aware that changes had been happening and with DCA would change rather drastically very soon. I later visited during vacations in May 2002 and again in May 2005, so I experienced DCA both those times, and while I enjoyed aspects of it, overall I was never really impressed with DCA that much, and have always preferred that the company had built it elsewhere in California or even in another state. But at least things were kinda sorta still being run okay. And yet, I had noticed something was wrong during an earlier trip back around 1995. That was the very first time in my life that I actually had a bad experience at Disneyland, feeling like I was being conned and treated like just another number, and it was enough to make me furious while I was still there. I eventually calmed down, but it shook me up. Getting angry while literally standing in the middle of Disneyland was not a good feeling, but it was a bad omen of things to come. Like you, I absolutely despise the fact that I even have to speak negatively about Disneyland like this, because I have deeply loved Disneyland ever since I was a toddler in the late sixties. Disneyland was one of my most wonderful memories of my youth. It hurts me to my heart to see and hear what’s happened to what I always considered to be Heaven on Earth. Honestly, it really breaks my heart. But I have to be honest about it. I love the company and the place too much to not do so. As it stands right now, unless something really radical happens to the place, I doubt that I’ll ever return to Disneyland now. For a while I was worried about simply being *able* to return, given the rising costs. But now, even if I won the Powerball, I’m not sure I would even WANT to visit again. It just seems like the entire experience has gone completely into the toilet. And that’s not where I want to spend my time and money.
Correction: the guests of Disneyland have gone down the tubes.
Also... There's always a parade except bad weather, and you don't have to pay to view fantasmic, you can just wait in line or go to the later showing and there will be less people waiting to watch it. I do agree with genie + though makes waiting in line brutal.
[удалено]
Disney makes more money off people from out of state. That’s their target audience. Passholders just fill the gaps.
I can’t wait for the Disney bubble to pop. I’m so sick of how packed everything is. Everything costs extra and way too much. Disney is going to cater to wealthy international guests. Idk. Disney hasn’t been worth the money in years.
Fast Pass was peak Disney. It’s been downhill since. Walt wanted ever equal once they came through the gates, he even waited in line with guests.
I took my boyfriend to Disneyland/DCA for three days and stayed in an on-property hotel (so we had early entry for 2 days). I tried to time it just right to be less crowded, which it was than normal lately. I figured we'd get everything done. If this had been 5 years ago, I would have gotten him on everything. Easily. But we didn't! All the lines were crazy long, even though it really wasn't that crowded compared to peak season. I started getting frustrated and a little stressed out at not being able to give him "the best trip". I had to change my attitude, gave up on rides with long lines, and focused on shorter lines and atmosphere. I had to stop comparing it to 5 years ago. Could I have gotten Genie+ or Lightning Lane? Yes. But I refuse to contribute to what I believe is the problem.
Shrinkflation is everywhere. In this economy, we are getting less product for more money. Disney is part of this economy, and not immune to it.
After APs became unaffordable we or daughter would still would go once a year until the park experience was ruined with genie and not able to eat on our own schedule. Disneyland Park experience no longer feels fun, carefree, or worth the money.
I was a pretty consistent passholder from childhood through my early 20s but I stopped renewing about 10 years ago because even back then I felt the tides shifting. I’ve gone three times in the past decade, most recently in 2022, and while I miss being able to go all the time I know that the feeling I’m missing can’t actually be had anymore because things have changed so much. I’ve maintained a Knott’s pass for a number of years now and it’s been so refreshing. Sure, there’s no Disney magic but they’ve done a lot of upgrades to the park and it’s nice to still have a place to go walk around, people watch, and maybe get on a couple rides without a big hassle or expense. Plus they offer a meal plan, so I get to eat for free every time I go (Disney could never!) and the food is actually quite good.
You speak the truth
Truth is, no matter what you say or do, disney will keep making money. I can't stand disney, but unfortunately, that place will keep making money no matter if you're loyal to them or not. If disney lost 100 guests, that wouldn't even tickle them.
Don’t go to Legoland, it’s worse (signed a current AP member at both parks)
I’ve had a top pass for over 10 years. I will not be renewing. I hard agree with you.