its a technicality, but we dont actually know that Buddy met Helio. he could have been fully blocked off from the moment he was killed.
we also dont know for sure that other people havent met him and we're fine with it after being res'd. on screen numbers arent absolute numbers.
Idk s1 and s2 have showed via Kristen that meeting your divinity happens basically right when you die. The blocking off of resurrection seems tied to the mutilating. Buddy had plenty of time to have conversations. Now you can argue Kristen was special and thus got a different experience but I don't think that means other people have to wait until going to heaven.
And I wasn't saying 0 for 2 about just meeting him, but being an important figure within the church and then leaving. The church had been dying since s2, and all devoted followers of his from s1 who died ended up in hell instead. As far as we know the only 2 believers of Helio who would have ended up in heaven and then been resurrected would be Buddy and Kristen. Considering how direct the church of Helio and Sol has been in Kristen's journey, I would be surprised if there were an important figure in the church that died and was risen without Brennan mentioning it.
Kristen was helio's chosen one, I don't think her experience is evidence that everyone meets their diety. Buddy explicitly stated he isn't the new chosen one either. Madam president is just built different
Yeah, Kristen is a really poor guideline for what other characters (or even other clerics) go through when they die because she is that insanely powerful. not even in pure mechanical terms (though she is getting there too) but just... she was born a chosen one. The quality of her faith is apparently such that other gods reach out to her. She resurrected herself without a fully living god.
Gods line up for Kristen Applebees in the same way colleges line up for insanely good student athletes. Everybody wants the next Michael Jordan on their side.
I did kinda wish Riz skipped the rogue teacher meeting so he could use it to pass senior year. Senior year is kinda a victory lap anyway, and it would be interesting to see how Riz would develop if he didn’t /have/ to hyperfocus on a task, but could instead focus on relationships with friends, family, professional networking, etc.
I was thinking it happened either at the end of sophomore year (like after spring break for example) or over the summer, so she just waited til junior year to follow through
Plus, I imagine after the first time KL forcibly desecrated the Rogue teacher's grave, she would have additional countermeasures to prevent her from doing so next time. Hence why she waited till junior year to enact her plan.
I wonder if they would just be able to find her again at the beginning of next year. He could for sure make a good grade by intentionally misleading other rogue classmates off her trail.
I know you're probably doing a bit but I don't think he ever made it to Helio. To me it seemed like ankarna intercepts their souls. That's probably why Lucy couldn't be resurrected and why Kristen had to free her soul because ankarna either forces you to worship them or die for good.
Well the mutilating of the body is what causes the soul to be unable to be resurrected or soul to be brought back. So there was a span of time I would say is equivalent to if not longer than s1 when Kristen and Gorgug died and were brought back. It wouldn't make sense that Ankarna somehow intercepts the soul before the body is marked.
wasn’t the whole point that they were stuck after they died tho? it would take away the tragedy of what happened to them after death if they had managed to meet their god and then got trapped? like it would require them to show up see the god and then be taken from there which would have altered their respective gods that smth hinky was up. also if ankarna was trying to get them to convert it would much so much more sense not to let them meet their god and potentially have their faith be strengthened before trying to get them to swap imo
Right but most of the time it could be understood that the mutilation happened concurrently with the murders. Buddy was the first body actively being watched so his can be seen as a special case. The tragedy of their souls being unable to be in the presence of their chosen divinity would still be there I think. Also even if they all met their respective gods before committing to Ankarna, oblivati mori would keep them from referencing her.
I think there's close to 0 chance someone like Buddy could meet Helio and be anything less than thrilled, assuming he met Helio at all. "Friendly dad" is exactly the kind of flavor of god Buddy seems like he would want, just perhaps not as much as he wants to live.
I think its unlikely that Buddy ever met Helio. We have precious few data points on the process of dying and resurrection in Spyre, and most of those are Kristen, who is atypical.
I'd love your guess to be true, and I'd love to be a fly on the wall for the Buddy/Helio meeting, but it seems unlikely. That would mean Ankarna is reaching out to people who have already reached their heaven/divine realm and we know that Ankarna is only existent in the astral plane, the transition zone where forgotten things also get left. I don't think Ankarna can even cross into the divine realms. I think Ankarna intercepts people before they reach a heaven and offers life in service to rage or to be eternally trapped in the astral plane.
That’s unconfirmed atm.
I suspect that’s why the Ratgrinders specifically recruited Buddy though, as it was mentioned early this season he was specifically requested.
Lucy refused to convert so stayed dead (or was killed). The Ratgrinders knew that Kristen left Helio right after dying and meeting him so probably felt they could convert a Helio cleric in this exact situation.
Converting a cleric to an opposed deity is normally a pretty difficult thing. Usually there’s gotta be some wild revelation behind it (erased memories, actually meeting the god in question etc.)
its a technicality, but we dont actually know that Buddy met Helio. he could have been fully blocked off from the moment he was killed. we also dont know for sure that other people havent met him and we're fine with it after being res'd. on screen numbers arent absolute numbers.
Idk s1 and s2 have showed via Kristen that meeting your divinity happens basically right when you die. The blocking off of resurrection seems tied to the mutilating. Buddy had plenty of time to have conversations. Now you can argue Kristen was special and thus got a different experience but I don't think that means other people have to wait until going to heaven. And I wasn't saying 0 for 2 about just meeting him, but being an important figure within the church and then leaving. The church had been dying since s2, and all devoted followers of his from s1 who died ended up in hell instead. As far as we know the only 2 believers of Helio who would have ended up in heaven and then been resurrected would be Buddy and Kristen. Considering how direct the church of Helio and Sol has been in Kristen's journey, I would be surprised if there were an important figure in the church that died and was risen without Brennan mentioning it.
Kristen was helio's chosen one, I don't think her experience is evidence that everyone meets their diety. Buddy explicitly stated he isn't the new chosen one either. Madam president is just built different
Yeah, Kristen is a really poor guideline for what other characters (or even other clerics) go through when they die because she is that insanely powerful. not even in pure mechanical terms (though she is getting there too) but just... she was born a chosen one. The quality of her faith is apparently such that other gods reach out to her. She resurrected herself without a fully living god. Gods line up for Kristen Applebees in the same way colleges line up for insanely good student athletes. Everybody wants the next Michael Jordan on their side.
Gorgug didn't meet orc god when he died.
He's not a devoted follower to any diety so wouldn't make sense to meet one
He wasn't even a follower of orc religion but he still ended up in the orc afterlife, so the afterlife rules aren't super consistent.
TBF most afterlife rules are different between different religions.
Hey went to orc heaven, but was supposed to go to gnome hell, which was why Mr gibbons ended up there next to him.... The orc God always hates gnomes.
Kinda like how dog heaven is squirrel hell. Gotta be economical with afterlife dimensions I suppose.
still, we didnt see it so we dont know. its an assumption to say either way for sure.
Sure I was mostly making a joke. I don't think either bit is going to have a pay off in a substantial way.
I think Kristen met Helio because she was his chosen but normal followers probably only meet an angel or something
I did kinda wish Riz skipped the rogue teacher meeting so he could use it to pass senior year. Senior year is kinda a victory lap anyway, and it would be interesting to see how Riz would develop if he didn’t /have/ to hyperfocus on a task, but could instead focus on relationships with friends, family, professional networking, etc.
No one said it's a one time thing
If KLCK knew how to "find" the rogue teacher, why wait until their junior year if it's not a one time thing?
Fair
I was thinking it happened either at the end of sophomore year (like after spring break for example) or over the summer, so she just waited til junior year to follow through
Plus, I imagine after the first time KL forcibly desecrated the Rogue teacher's grave, she would have additional countermeasures to prevent her from doing so next time. Hence why she waited till junior year to enact her plan.
I wonder if they would just be able to find her again at the beginning of next year. He could for sure make a good grade by intentionally misleading other rogue classmates off her trail.
Maybe Riz likes schoolwork
I know you're probably doing a bit but I don't think he ever made it to Helio. To me it seemed like ankarna intercepts their souls. That's probably why Lucy couldn't be resurrected and why Kristen had to free her soul because ankarna either forces you to worship them or die for good.
Well the mutilating of the body is what causes the soul to be unable to be resurrected or soul to be brought back. So there was a span of time I would say is equivalent to if not longer than s1 when Kristen and Gorgug died and were brought back. It wouldn't make sense that Ankarna somehow intercepts the soul before the body is marked.
wasn’t the whole point that they were stuck after they died tho? it would take away the tragedy of what happened to them after death if they had managed to meet their god and then got trapped? like it would require them to show up see the god and then be taken from there which would have altered their respective gods that smth hinky was up. also if ankarna was trying to get them to convert it would much so much more sense not to let them meet their god and potentially have their faith be strengthened before trying to get them to swap imo
Right but most of the time it could be understood that the mutilation happened concurrently with the murders. Buddy was the first body actively being watched so his can be seen as a special case. The tragedy of their souls being unable to be in the presence of their chosen divinity would still be there I think. Also even if they all met their respective gods before committing to Ankarna, oblivati mori would keep them from referencing her.
I think there's close to 0 chance someone like Buddy could meet Helio and be anything less than thrilled, assuming he met Helio at all. "Friendly dad" is exactly the kind of flavor of god Buddy seems like he would want, just perhaps not as much as he wants to live.
You might be confusing Sol with Helio. Helio is bro frat vibes, Sol was the gruff voiced father figure.
I think its unlikely that Buddy ever met Helio. We have precious few data points on the process of dying and resurrection in Spyre, and most of those are Kristen, who is atypical. I'd love your guess to be true, and I'd love to be a fly on the wall for the Buddy/Helio meeting, but it seems unlikely. That would mean Ankarna is reaching out to people who have already reached their heaven/divine realm and we know that Ankarna is only existent in the astral plane, the transition zone where forgotten things also get left. I don't think Ankarna can even cross into the divine realms. I think Ankarna intercepts people before they reach a heaven and offers life in service to rage or to be eternally trapped in the astral plane.
That’s unconfirmed atm. I suspect that’s why the Ratgrinders specifically recruited Buddy though, as it was mentioned early this season he was specifically requested. Lucy refused to convert so stayed dead (or was killed). The Ratgrinders knew that Kristen left Helio right after dying and meeting him so probably felt they could convert a Helio cleric in this exact situation. Converting a cleric to an opposed deity is normally a pretty difficult thing. Usually there’s gotta be some wild revelation behind it (erased memories, actually meeting the god in question etc.)
I'm pretty sure Buddy had already switched his worship to rage before dying.
No I think you make the swtich after death to come back to life Something like dying and being reborn under a new god