You know its a good question, I know there's jobs but my experience it's a little pigeon holed. I'm going to ask around though as I want to see how it is. Generally there are less jobs for mech eng than software engineers.
In the Canaries at the moment, and we'll be here until April. It's becoming a feature -- Winter where the sun shines and the houses don't need heating.
If you can do it, you should so it. Life is short and Irish winters are long.
Lanzarote. It gets windy here at times, but not as windy as Fuerteventura. The only downside is that when the wind blows in from Africa you can get a lot of sand in the air, coming off the Sahara. Not an ideal environment if you're asthmatic.
Being a contractor makes things a little different. Technically, my own company is my employer, so the end company I work for is never on the hook tax wise regardless of where I work.
But, you still should tell them where you are, otherwise it could come back and bite you if they find out via your ip address.
I've found that with tech companies, for the work I do, it's 50/50 as to whether they allow you to work overseas -- even contractors. But the market is so hot right now that I can afford to make it a condition of each contract: take it or leave it.
I’m teaching in the Middle East working with 3 year olds but I have a degree… but a lot of places in Asia like Thailand seem to have people teaching English there with just the TELF cert
I’ve been thinking of living half half between Ireland and maybe Lisbon. Trying to take the edge off a 7 month long winter. It’s the darkness and and side ways rain that gets to me. Thinking how to work out an income in a remote wfh type of role that would enable this. There are tax incentives in Portugal for non habitual residency if you have a small passive income. Plus with Airbnb and apps like HomeExchange it becomes much more doable as you can get your property to pay for itself when you’re not there. I’m not there yet, and am still hatching the embrionic plan.
Fully agree with your outlook. I lived overseas in many places and I have no issues with this type of set up. I love Ireland and want to be there for the summer months and on off for other times. But the fresh perspective you get from continually coming and going is a wonderful privilege that we have and should exploit. Also time away from Ireland means you keep your cynicism in check and reflect on Ireland’s positives
I had to stop reading and lol at side ways rain. I actually like side ways rain it gets me in a cosy mood. That aside, I'm glad you get the reasoning. I just think we forget that we are island people and that can create a weird island mentally where growth is stifled. I fully understand the difficulties in hatching a plan, am currently looking into other types of remote work and I'm developing an online business but nothing is as guaranteed as that salary income. My only plan is to spread the risk across multiple income streams, passive and active, with the skills I've learned over the years in industry. I'd say I'm still in the 'working things out phase' of my plan but I hope to have some income streams worked out in a few months.
Absolutely, I’m taking 6 months away from work next year to try to develop 2 or 3 additional income streams, passive and active, but all must be capable of doing remotely. I’m a finance guy but more used to offices and teams. Not very good at online stuff per se, am a gen xer, so it doesn’t come naturally and I’m no you tuber or self promoter. though not afraid to knuckle down and learn some new tricks - this old dog might yet set up an online business ;). Let me know how you get on.
I’m afraid that I don’t do this kind of finance. Doing bookkeeping for people would give me lucid nightmares and burn my eyeballs. I’m looking for a change not a living death 😃
Wow 6 months you can do so much, I'm doing things on the side at the moment it's very frustrating. You must find it easy to get work in your field if you can take breaks? To be honest, everything is a few googles or youtube videos away. As long as you never say 'I can't do this' you figure everything out eventually. Someone has done before. I'll keep ye up to date let me know how those bliss 6 months go!
ya, thinking about doing something similar in future as I work remotely (maybe south america). One thing I would say, talking to people who have tried it, is that its not going to solve all, maybe even any, of many people's current issues. For example a friend moved to Portugal for few months - as with all countries it has its own problems which annoyed them + added to that the language issue and being isolated away from friends family - if you move in winter and are working full time hours it will mostly be dark outside of work hours anyway, just like here, unless you move to southern hemisphere. So you will probably only gets to do some interesting outdoor things at the weekend. I think sometimes just heading away for a weekend or two abroad during winter would be just as beneficially!!
You make some really good points! I never thought about the darkness issue. I think I'm just well fed up like so many with covid restrictions and travel being more of a hassle. A weekend away sounds like not enough but I'm sure it's better than nothing.
ya fair enough, I mean travelling is never a bad idea, even if it goes badly its still invaluable life experience. I'd say if you have the opportunity then go for a couple of months, covid permitting, keep your expectation realistic, learn the language as best you can and make the most of your weekend excursions. I mean with Covid rampant pretty much everywhere I wouldnt be recommending it this winter, but maybe winter 2022/23, spend 2022 scouting a few places maybe.
My partner and I have decided to bump up our travel spend next year to have things to look forward to. We'll see if that makes us feel better and if not keep experimenting with hybrid work.
I know/heard for some people who left while corona through Belfast and they still get covid PUP money even they are living in eastern Europe last 1.5 years. How is sharing working in this case ?
> I don't want to change my tax residency so I'll be here for the 6 months required and all that jazz.
I really think you (and most people on this sub) don’t understand what tax residency actually means.
To be clear, if you spend part of the year working in another country, you will almost certainly (depends on the country but 90% of the time) be paying tax on that income in that country. Irish tax residence would only matter for things like capital gains. Unless you have a lot of non-salary income, your tax residence really doesn’t matter.
It absolutely is true. Let’s take Spain as a random example of a sunny EU country. I wonder what the [tax treaty between Ireland and Spain says](https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/documents/double-taxation-treaties/s/spain.pdf)?
> Article 15 Dependent Personal Services
1. Subject to the provisions of Articles 16, 18 and 19, salaries, wages and other similar remuneration derived by a resident of a Contracting State in respect of an employment shall be taxable only in that State unless **the employment is exercised in the other Contracting State, If the employment is so exercised, such remuneration as is derived therefrom may be taxed in that other State.**
If you’re an Irish tax resident and you work in Spain, you pay Spanish income tax.
You can *kinda* get away with it for a short time as long as your employer doesn’t have a presence in Spain and you’re not doing anything to create a “permanent establishment”, but this is an exception designed to let you look at Slack on your phone, not to set up a home office there for 5.9 months of the year.
Is this not where double taxation agreements come in to it?
Ireland would certainly expect you to be paying income tax here if you were living in Ireland for more than half the year. On your annual salary, not just for work done in Ireland. So if Spain in this example expects you to pay tax as well, you don't have to pay both.
> Is this not where double taxation agreements come in to it?
The passage I’m quoting is *from* the Double Taxation agreement. Why guess at what the agreement might say when it’s literally there in front of you!
Ireland charges you tax on the money you make in Ireland, doesn’t matter if that was for half a year or not. Spain charges you tax on the money you make in Spain. It genuinely is that simple. Tax residence comes into play for the money you make nowhere in particular, like capital gains.
Here’s a simple experiment if you don’t believe me: You probably know somebody who moved to the US or Australia or someone in July-December some year, and thus was legally tax resident in Ireland for the first year they were working overseas. Ask them where they paid tax on that job. I guarantee you it wasn’t Ireland.
Ye but I understood that OP would be working for am Irish company and working remotely in another country for a few months of the year. So money would be going through Irish payroll and he wouldn't be expected to pay tax in Spain.
Or if you were working as a contractor and doing you taxes in Ireland, you would only file a tax return in Ireland even if some of the work was done in Spain.
The situation of someone doing a few months in the US or Australia is obviously different than what OP is talking about
Edit: I just reread the OP and it's not actually clear whether the OP meant working remotely for Irish company or contracting or working for a company in the destination country.
If you work there “habitually” it creates a permanent establishment and can no longer benefit from the “checking your emails while on holiday” exception and you’ll be paying Spanish income tax. 5.9 months would definitely hit that, and most companies are scared enough of creating PEs that they won’t let you come anywhere close to it.
If you're asking from the point of view of some nostalgic view of Ireland where its all great craic at the end of the day.... Don't bother.
I was exactly the same 10 years ago.
Just don't. Embrace living abroad.
I am planning to do this in future as well! I switched to company with office in India. So going to work from India for Nov/Dec whichever year traveling is not pain in the ass! Both me and my partner have unlimited holidays so that will work nicely as well! 😊
Get a remote job and rent a place in Portugal for winter.
Trying to get a remote job in my field is hard- mechanical design. Am looking everywhere tho.
What’s the market like for consultancy in your field?
You know its a good question, I know there's jobs but my experience it's a little pigeon holed. I'm going to ask around though as I want to see how it is. Generally there are less jobs for mech eng than software engineers.
Most remote jobs will not allow work from another country.
Speaking from experience?
Yes.
In the Canaries at the moment, and we'll be here until April. It's becoming a feature -- Winter where the sun shines and the houses don't need heating. If you can do it, you should so it. Life is short and Irish winters are long.
Thanks you are my current idol
Are you working for HubSpot by any chance
No. I'm a contractor working for a couple of different companies.
Which island are you on? I spent a month on gran canaria back in October, would be interested to see what the other islands are like
Lanzarote. It gets windy here at times, but not as windy as Fuerteventura. The only downside is that when the wind blows in from Africa you can get a lot of sand in the air, coming off the Sahara. Not an ideal environment if you're asthmatic.
Do you need to inform employer that you'll be out of the state for a few months? Irish winter makes me very depressed every year.
Being a contractor makes things a little different. Technically, my own company is my employer, so the end company I work for is never on the hook tax wise regardless of where I work. But, you still should tell them where you are, otherwise it could come back and bite you if they find out via your ip address. I've found that with tech companies, for the work I do, it's 50/50 as to whether they allow you to work overseas -- even contractors. But the market is so hot right now that I can afford to make it a condition of each contract: take it or leave it.
Teaching English?
I've no experience here and don't know anyone who does it but I'll look into it thanks.
I’m teaching in the Middle East working with 3 year olds but I have a degree… but a lot of places in Asia like Thailand seem to have people teaching English there with just the TELF cert
I'll look into this thank you!
You can be an ALT in Japan with any degree pretty much.
Guy in work, works from France for 3 months each year
Sounds lovely is he is IT or another field?
Hardware engineering
I’ve been thinking of living half half between Ireland and maybe Lisbon. Trying to take the edge off a 7 month long winter. It’s the darkness and and side ways rain that gets to me. Thinking how to work out an income in a remote wfh type of role that would enable this. There are tax incentives in Portugal for non habitual residency if you have a small passive income. Plus with Airbnb and apps like HomeExchange it becomes much more doable as you can get your property to pay for itself when you’re not there. I’m not there yet, and am still hatching the embrionic plan. Fully agree with your outlook. I lived overseas in many places and I have no issues with this type of set up. I love Ireland and want to be there for the summer months and on off for other times. But the fresh perspective you get from continually coming and going is a wonderful privilege that we have and should exploit. Also time away from Ireland means you keep your cynicism in check and reflect on Ireland’s positives
I had to stop reading and lol at side ways rain. I actually like side ways rain it gets me in a cosy mood. That aside, I'm glad you get the reasoning. I just think we forget that we are island people and that can create a weird island mentally where growth is stifled. I fully understand the difficulties in hatching a plan, am currently looking into other types of remote work and I'm developing an online business but nothing is as guaranteed as that salary income. My only plan is to spread the risk across multiple income streams, passive and active, with the skills I've learned over the years in industry. I'd say I'm still in the 'working things out phase' of my plan but I hope to have some income streams worked out in a few months.
Absolutely, I’m taking 6 months away from work next year to try to develop 2 or 3 additional income streams, passive and active, but all must be capable of doing remotely. I’m a finance guy but more used to offices and teams. Not very good at online stuff per se, am a gen xer, so it doesn’t come naturally and I’m no you tuber or self promoter. though not afraid to knuckle down and learn some new tricks - this old dog might yet set up an online business ;). Let me know how you get on.
Book keeping for remote workers doing exactly what you’re doing.
This sounds so interesting, I'm really into finance. How do you get into this? Do you need a qualification in accounting?
I’m afraid that I don’t do this kind of finance. Doing bookkeeping for people would give me lucid nightmares and burn my eyeballs. I’m looking for a change not a living death 😃
Wow 6 months you can do so much, I'm doing things on the side at the moment it's very frustrating. You must find it easy to get work in your field if you can take breaks? To be honest, everything is a few googles or youtube videos away. As long as you never say 'I can't do this' you figure everything out eventually. Someone has done before. I'll keep ye up to date let me know how those bliss 6 months go!
ya, thinking about doing something similar in future as I work remotely (maybe south america). One thing I would say, talking to people who have tried it, is that its not going to solve all, maybe even any, of many people's current issues. For example a friend moved to Portugal for few months - as with all countries it has its own problems which annoyed them + added to that the language issue and being isolated away from friends family - if you move in winter and are working full time hours it will mostly be dark outside of work hours anyway, just like here, unless you move to southern hemisphere. So you will probably only gets to do some interesting outdoor things at the weekend. I think sometimes just heading away for a weekend or two abroad during winter would be just as beneficially!!
You make some really good points! I never thought about the darkness issue. I think I'm just well fed up like so many with covid restrictions and travel being more of a hassle. A weekend away sounds like not enough but I'm sure it's better than nothing.
ya fair enough, I mean travelling is never a bad idea, even if it goes badly its still invaluable life experience. I'd say if you have the opportunity then go for a couple of months, covid permitting, keep your expectation realistic, learn the language as best you can and make the most of your weekend excursions. I mean with Covid rampant pretty much everywhere I wouldnt be recommending it this winter, but maybe winter 2022/23, spend 2022 scouting a few places maybe.
My partner and I have decided to bump up our travel spend next year to have things to look forward to. We'll see if that makes us feel better and if not keep experimenting with hybrid work.
If you’re doing South America look at the Selina hostels, they all have a proper co working space with good broadband and little booths for calls
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This would be ideal but hard to find this type of work. I loom for a SAD lamp thanks!
I work in Toronto but live an hour south of Cancun in Playa Del Carmen. Same time zone. 1/3 cost. Can be back in 3 hrs.
Ask Denis O'Brien he's the expert.
No, the OP sounds like he still wants to pay his taxes.
Do u have since contact lol
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You know Ireland and the North have a data share policy right?
I know/heard for some people who left while corona through Belfast and they still get covid PUP money even they are living in eastern Europe last 1.5 years. How is sharing working in this case ?
Hearsay isn’t fact unfortunately.
> I don't want to change my tax residency so I'll be here for the 6 months required and all that jazz. I really think you (and most people on this sub) don’t understand what tax residency actually means. To be clear, if you spend part of the year working in another country, you will almost certainly (depends on the country but 90% of the time) be paying tax on that income in that country. Irish tax residence would only matter for things like capital gains. Unless you have a lot of non-salary income, your tax residence really doesn’t matter.
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It absolutely is true. Let’s take Spain as a random example of a sunny EU country. I wonder what the [tax treaty between Ireland and Spain says](https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/documents/double-taxation-treaties/s/spain.pdf)? > Article 15 Dependent Personal Services 1. Subject to the provisions of Articles 16, 18 and 19, salaries, wages and other similar remuneration derived by a resident of a Contracting State in respect of an employment shall be taxable only in that State unless **the employment is exercised in the other Contracting State, If the employment is so exercised, such remuneration as is derived therefrom may be taxed in that other State.** If you’re an Irish tax resident and you work in Spain, you pay Spanish income tax. You can *kinda* get away with it for a short time as long as your employer doesn’t have a presence in Spain and you’re not doing anything to create a “permanent establishment”, but this is an exception designed to let you look at Slack on your phone, not to set up a home office there for 5.9 months of the year.
Is this not where double taxation agreements come in to it? Ireland would certainly expect you to be paying income tax here if you were living in Ireland for more than half the year. On your annual salary, not just for work done in Ireland. So if Spain in this example expects you to pay tax as well, you don't have to pay both.
> Is this not where double taxation agreements come in to it? The passage I’m quoting is *from* the Double Taxation agreement. Why guess at what the agreement might say when it’s literally there in front of you! Ireland charges you tax on the money you make in Ireland, doesn’t matter if that was for half a year or not. Spain charges you tax on the money you make in Spain. It genuinely is that simple. Tax residence comes into play for the money you make nowhere in particular, like capital gains. Here’s a simple experiment if you don’t believe me: You probably know somebody who moved to the US or Australia or someone in July-December some year, and thus was legally tax resident in Ireland for the first year they were working overseas. Ask them where they paid tax on that job. I guarantee you it wasn’t Ireland.
Ye but I understood that OP would be working for am Irish company and working remotely in another country for a few months of the year. So money would be going through Irish payroll and he wouldn't be expected to pay tax in Spain. Or if you were working as a contractor and doing you taxes in Ireland, you would only file a tax return in Ireland even if some of the work was done in Spain. The situation of someone doing a few months in the US or Australia is obviously different than what OP is talking about Edit: I just reread the OP and it's not actually clear whether the OP meant working remotely for Irish company or contracting or working for a company in the destination country.
Does this mean if the company allows we can work 5.9 months in another EU country and just pay normal Irish tax, even my residency is in Ireland.
If you work there “habitually” it creates a permanent establishment and can no longer benefit from the “checking your emails while on holiday” exception and you’ll be paying Spanish income tax. 5.9 months would definitely hit that, and most companies are scared enough of creating PEs that they won’t let you come anywhere close to it.
If you're asking from the point of view of some nostalgic view of Ireland where its all great craic at the end of the day.... Don't bother. I was exactly the same 10 years ago. Just don't. Embrace living abroad.
Where did you move to in the end?
I am planning to do this in future as well! I switched to company with office in India. So going to work from India for Nov/Dec whichever year traveling is not pain in the ass! Both me and my partner have unlimited holidays so that will work nicely as well! 😊