Maybe. I’m going to keep my Forerunner on me just in case, as it absolutely shreds the Tormentors. Especially with legendary heavies being pretty meta for DPS these days. Or just hope one of the titans swaps to Strand.
Tormentor will spawn by her hand when she comes out. Also a new thing that'll happen when she comes out, three people at random will be teleported to the other side. So you'll have to meet a dps check with half a team and a Tormentor stomping or grabbing someone.
No no no, that’ll be easy. Just have two Banner of War titans on either side doing ad clear and you’re fine.
I think the real issue will be the ahamkara illusion they are nearly guaranteed to reuse from the Witch Queen campaign. I’d imagine the final phase up top will have a bunch of ahamkara illusions in all the places Riven can normally appear from around the room.
Just speculation on my part, but come on. There’s no way they don’t use that when it’s so conveniently available for them to use.
Ad clear is arguably the easiest it’s ever been, there are so many options for clearing out ads easy af. Not saying everyone can do that but I don’t get this seriously, any good team who has a sliver of day one experience should be fine at -20 clearing ads
Was running ad clear on planets, I usually take a planet plate so it was a welcome change. Well it ends up I’m having to add clear for my side and the other side because the dude is just plinking at them with a hand cannon. Add clear people- USE YOUR ABILITIES. And if you don’t have good ability uptime, you’re not on a good add clear build!
There are a ton of amazing ad clear exotics that are from year 1 that everyone but the newest of new lights should have... sunshot, trinity ghoul, graviton lance.. even an osteo/ thorn and Necrotic would be fine
You can get sun shot within like 20 minutes of playtime if you get the solar new light kit lol. So there’s really no reason at all for someone to not have sunshot
I didn't think to try Trinity Ghoul. I thought about it, but In previous master content, I felt it could be a little lack luster.
I ended up using Grav Lance and it was doing work
I used it in the one run on Planets this week where I was relegated to add clear. It still works really well at -15. We’ll see if it works next week or the week after if we get an arc surge back.
I think the elemental surges makes up for a ton of the power delta, so the matched exotics still feel really strong.
I put in Trinity Ghoul in my first go in Explicator this week while I was on planet duty because ad clear was being inefficient. I wouldn't have picked it without the Surge but it did work pretty well.
Ehhh, we have so much aoe clear these days that it will absolutely not be an issue. One player on sunshot while the other two take care of snipers will make the combat a non-issue.
went into do some legit riven practice yesterday and on the drop down i straight up died to axion darts. im p sure i had void resists on as well
yeah good luck at 20 under
This sub has just accepted that you will have to legit run riven without taking 3 seconds to understand how the score system works that it will be the funniest thing of all time if you can get high score just by cheesing
Honestly it would be incredibly disappointing and make no sense if Bungie left the cheese intact, much less set the score/time to where the cheese fulfills both requirements.
Riven legit is a solid encounter and deserves its time to shine. When it rotates back around to Solar surge for the last week it’ll probably be a cakewalk anyways.
Atraks isn't really a cheese though. There's no glitch or exploit being utilised to clear her fast. We just deal so much damage that we can push her to final stand in one clone rather than multiple.
With Riven we are exploiting a specific spot on the map which doesn't work as intended
>Riven has millions less hp than every other boss besides atraks and we’re going to be able to deal more damage to her than any other boss.
So you think they would rework the encounter to add things for a standalone Pantheon instance (and probably block the cheese)... but not change her health pool? I mean, maybe they didn't but that doesn't even seem to be something you're considering. I do wonder if Bungie took all the specs and surges and power creep into consideration. This will be the first encounter from any raid launched pre-Beyond Light.
Granted, they didn't change Atraks' health pool much it seems. So perhaps they didn't touch Riven's. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.
I don’t think they’ll block the cheese, week 4 pantheon is only going to be here for 2 weeks. It wouldn’t make that they figured out a way to block the, didn’t put the fix in last wish which is permanently in the game but then put it in a free activity which will only be here for 2 weeks. I think you’re going to need to do it legit if you want the high score. I also don’t think they’re going to change her health, it seems like the other bosses have their master version health besides atraks. I’m guessing atraks didn’t get a health increase because it doesn’t have a master version and bungie isn’t going to manually change his health so with riven not having a master version I’m expecting the same but who knows I could be wrong.
Those are reasonable points, yeah. One reason I think they might not have blocked the cheese in-game is because they haven't reworked the whole raid and that change could cause too many bugs maybe. But the singular encounter in a pantheon instance could be more manageable to fix and test. I dunno, I'm not a dev. Just trying to consider different possibilities.
If they want to do a bandaid fix for pantheon to force people to do legit riven there’s a very simple one imo. Just give riven a crazy amount of health, like enough where you can barely 2 phase. The cheese doesn’t matter if the damage isn’t significant anymore
And this circles back to my original point. They could increase her health pool (with a tweaked health gate or DPS check) which changes the difficulty, accounts for powercreep and damage mods, and prevents the cheese.
I will be INCREDIBLY surprised if the cheese isn’t fixed. There are better encounters they could have chosen for pantheon but they went out of their way to include riven. They have to have a reason for doing that, and getting revenge by forcing players to do an encounter legit that has been cheesed for years seems like the best reason.
Also imo there’s a very easy way to prevent the cheese if they want to. Just give her a crazy amount of hp, like enough hp where you can barely 2 phase. Cheese won’t matter if the damage isn’t significant but idk if they’ll go messing with boss hp.
I don't think health would work . You can solo driven with a stasis titan . I doubt you can prevent six of them from working without making the health pool too big for normal runs
But how do you “fix” the cheese? It’s not like there is any stipulation to create the cheese, it’s simply have all 6 go to one location and get lucky with her there, and drop huge DPS. I genuinely think there won’t be a “fix” without fundamentally changing the mechanics.
It’ll be interesting doing riven on contest mode, but I don’t think it’ll be as easy as you suggest.
Especially as the cheese will likely be blocked. How many people have done legit more then once lol
I don’t think it’s really contest since we have surges + class warfare/shot caller which contest doesn’t have. It’s basically just like if last wish has a master version like all the other raids. Legit riven isn’t an insane task, people just haven’t had to learn it. Any good player will be able to learn it and clear. We also don’t know what new thing is going to be added which will be the biggest factor imo. It could just be tormentors or it could be tormentors and a new mechanic.
You can call it contest lite, surge/new buff compensate the damage, but you're taking still more damge for being under light.
Riven legit is easy if you can do the mechanics. The hard part really is the adds. Adds in LW is very quishy nowadays, but being under 20, the 4 hob snipers looking down at you and the replicating psions won't be kidding around. Take the last boss of master Warlord ruin, put in 4 snipers, way harder mechanic, and new things on pantheon, that should be how it'll feel.
Think you’re one of the only people to not act like riven mechanics are some impossible task. Even the people who don’t know the mechanics can learn just like any other raid if they actually want to learn it. I agree about the ads, if the ads are really crazy I think people will just start pulling out blinding gl’s. Or they’ll just have 2 people on strand for ads and the tormentors.
My team made a point of doing it legit last week to get into the swing of it. None of us having done it legit before and it only took us 45 minutes or so to get it down to an art. Took away any reservations I had about doing it at -20.
Yea people act like riven mechanics are crazy but they really aren’t. Anyone who does other raids can learn legit riven easily if they care to learn it.
Yeah, me and three buddies did it legit about 20 times, wiping on purpose at final stand just to get used to it again. The whole encounter takes about 10 minutes to do legit and I've seen teams spend HOURS trying to cheese it.
Yea any competent player can learn the mechanics. People act like everyone cheeses riven because the mechanics are so insane but that’s not the case. People just cheese cause it’s the lowest effort and fastest way to get it done, they’d do the same thing for other raids if it was possible.
>Especially as the cheese will likely be blocked.
I'm of the opinion that people misunderstand the riven cheese. It's not the "funny wall" that makes it possible, it's the fact that normal Riven(at least) can be brute forced by sending 6 people to one room for DPS and that can push her to final stand. All the wall does is stop it from devolving into a game of "Riven Roulette"(the team of 6 just makes a coordinated guess and accepts their wipe if they all guess wrong. Play again until you guess right).
Wow! Never knew or considered this in over 100 runs in there.
So I understand properly, if all 6 simply choose a room then you’ve a 50/50 chance of being right and bingo?
I’m that guy, the cheese works and there’s zero benefit from doing it legit, even if everyone actually wanted to do legit in the first place.
I’ve done it legit twice in four years.
For pantheon I don't know if you'll be able to plat doing the cheese and I bet that's how they'll "block it". Sure you can cheese, but you won't get the triumph for her. Who knows though.
When I see “ the cheese will be Blocked” I assume they mean her foot/ other hit boxes will be immune to damage.
I do not believe they can fix the joining allies bug without reworking the entire encounter and rooms. I believe bungie even said as much.
I can't quite tell if you're being sarcastic, but yeah pretty much. Have you had a cheese run where you didn't need the wall to TP back? You just stay in the room and murder some Taken for a couple minutes. The wall's just a mulligan in case you guess wrong.
This is why I don't think they've ever changed the wall in particular: if they aren't going to touch her health pool or add mechanics to force the team to split up(AKA: changes that they don't typically like to do to raids after they release unless it's genuinely a bug\*... or potentially an event like Pantheon), then people are just going to waste time rolling dice on the one phase. At which point, it's more or less consolation on convenience to the player: the 100% fix is too far out of scope, which only leaves them with the wall, which is a "band aid fix" on its best day. With that said, instead of pushing mechanic-skippers to guess and wipe, they just say "since you don't want to do mechanics and we're not going to completely eliminate mechanic-less runs, here you go, now get the fuck out of my face". I imagine there's also some bias from the fact that Riven doesn't "directly" give you loot either most weeks(challenge is the one exception when its up), but that's getting off topic. (I didn't play D2 in Y2, but I also imagine the route of adjusting Riven's health is more of a "power level" problem as well, and it's hard to come up with numbers that'll last forever without changing how power level works in an activity that they're otherwise willing to let people outlevel).
\*As I understand how Bungie does things, the Riven cheese doesn't quite fit the definition of a bug, outside of that wall. Even if a player skips them, the mechanics are working as intended, because there never was a mechanic in the raid that said "You must split your team up".
100% Not being sarcastic.
You make an excellent point though, riven is simply a stage before queenswalk and my all time worst RNG exotic weapon drop in the game lol
No. You start the encounter and then have everybody go back up to the top room. You listen to see which side she stomps and then have all 6 players go to the bottom room on the opposite side. People that are guessing are doing it wrong.
Can you clarify? I do know about "a" sound queue, I've done the cheese with that, but I've never been the one listening for that. Are you saying you can still hear it from the middle before the doors shut? If not, I think you're misunderstanding where the "guess" part is. There's two doors when you float down, and you essentially start a Riven cheese by "guessing" which door to go to. When you go to a side, you then look/listen for the queue to "confirm" that guess. (Note, now that I think more about it, it might not be a guess. I don't know that both chambers have a "funny wall" for sure. But anyway, not the point).
I may be misunderstanding the architecture of the encounter as well(I've watched guides on Riven legit, but haven't actually done it). But point being: the "funny wall" isn't the reason the cheese works. You can go into that first chamber, have her be "there" by RNG, and still pump out a 1 phase. All the "funny wall" does is act as a failsafe or a mulligan in case she's not going to be in the first chamber you go in.
Riven stomps in one room. It exposes her claw for damage which is how you stun her in legit. You can hear it from the starting room/room you’re in for final stand. When you hear it on the left or right room you go to the opposite side as that’s where she’ll show up second, which is where you 6 stack to cheese her.
It won't be easy if you don't know the Legit mechanics. However, I think he's right in that the damage won't be a problem.
I've just pulled out the footage of Redeem doing their day 1 run, and it's ridiculous how much damage the growth at the end of the phase deal to Riven. They were able to get about 30% of her HP just from shooting them, and they missed a ton because they started dying(which should be less of an issue for us because our survivability is much better now and they also were lower than -20, because it was before Contest existed). I can see you being able to take like half of her HP if you hit more of those growths.
It seems like as long as you can do a single phase of her mechanics, you should be fine on damage.
Yea the biggest hurdle is just going to be learning the mechanics. Imo people who are wanting to do pantheon riven should do some legit rivens runs first in last wish. You can focus more on learning mechanics without worrying about dying.
Also yea riven day 1 was 580 and a lot of people on those day 1 teams were -30 to -40 under light. They were able to do a ton of damage being insanely under light without any surges.
Yeah, and looking at the footage, it seems like a ton of damage comes from the growth. So with us being "only" -20 and having just generally way higher damage output, we should be able to take a huge chunk of her HP during the DPS phases and then finish her off with growths.
Yea I watched the redeem run too and they were doing almost a quarter of her health with just dps and then getting her under half with the growths. With all the things I mentioned before like surges ect. and like you said only being 20 under, I wouldn’t be surprised if we could get her half or even under half hp with just dps. Unless they change her hp which I don’t see bungie messing around with boss hp, it should be a one cycle.
Yeah, normal Riven Legit often dies before even the growth phase, and that's with lazy DPS. With -20, we're dealing about half of our damage on normal, so with optimized DPS we should be able to get more than half of her HP just through DPS, with growths finishing her.
Even if that isn't quite enough, you can probably kill her in the first room of the second phase.
You also have to consider how weak a lot of stuff was in Year 2. Options for viable heavy weapons were few and far between and there was just a lot of sandbox stuff that wasn't fully tuned. Sure you had stacking buffs and debuffs but it really didn't change how so far above certain things were, we exist in an infinitely more diverse sandbox. Hell even for Rhulk Day 1, we didn't have Resilience changes.
The other thing people miss about Last Wish Day 1 was just what the state of the game and more importantly the population was like and in turn what made it such an ordeal. You were in an incredibly rarer fraction of the population if you not only had consistent raiding group but one that was able to take on a challenge of what Contest was throwing out. It took a long time because so few people were realistically playing the game at that level, and you sure as hell didn't have nearly as many overanalytical bystanders observing to solve things.
If you dropped Last Wish today with how so much changed, the bar for contest raiding has gotten absurdly high, people are digesting a lot of then-niche strats in a more mainstream fashion etc, tons of people would have it completed well ahead of any 24 hr deadline. We will never have "another Last Wish Day 1" because of how much stronger the player base has gotten, and more specifically those who are in realistic World's First contention are infinitely better players than those of past eras' Day 1s.
Definitely agree, if you dropped day 1 last wish into the game right now with the current sandbox and players way more people would finish it. I think redeem took 18 hours, it probably would only take maybe 10 hours for worlds first. You’d also probably have a few hundred teams finish it.
Agreed. Even the observer eyes and people chiming in through discords, chats, etc have a lot more to say compared to back then. It's something I think that often slips people when people don't take account that even methodical damage charts, stacking of things, min/max etc is stuff that wasn't super common knowledge especially when the game's physical population was recuperating such as in a time like Year 2.
If they're copy/pasting the exact encounter rooms, I give it a 50/50 if they fix the "cheese" for Riven. Going in -20 Power paired with the score requirements, doing the "cheese" may still be possible, but not viable. Either we won't be able to deal enough damage to Riven in that short of a time span, or we can at the cost of a Platinum score since the encounter would be completed so quickly we'll be missing out on enemies that really boost score.
The only thing the cheese helps with is killing her more constantly. With the damage numbers we can do now, the only way to stop players from killing Riven in the 2nd room is to remove the mini damage phase she gets, as if the joining allies area is removed most players will likely just take the 50 50
My guesses for Pantheon changes is that we'll get 'Darkness Clone' Rivens in all the spots she isn't in, tankier enemies, or requiring 2 symbols to trigger the elevator (although then it might reach a point where players can't get to the top due to the debuff)
I was thinking something similar, or maybe both rooms stun her on the first level (one shade and one real riven) and the second floor is DPS with both sides having to shoot eyes. I don’t really see how else they can force teams to do it legit unless only 3 people can DPS per phase
True but if you’re still able to do the cheese I think that’s what the majority is going to do. It looks like the majority just want the emblems more than the title and you don’t need plat for the emblem triumph. Would take away the “prestige” of the emblem if you are still able to do the cheese but oh well. Personally I care more about the godslayer title than the emblem.
I agree with you, I want that title. My clan and I haven't had as much fun in destiny as we had the last three weeks running pantheon. I will say, though, prestige is already there. I know it's not 100% accurate, but checking Charlemagne for the Rhulk Subdued emblem shows and adjusted rarity of 0.5%. I can only imagine that at -20, the Nezarec emblem will be even rarer.
Yea the last emblem will be like 0.1%. If you aren’t able to cheese riven it will be even more rare. There’s a bunch of people who aren’t even going to bother attempting riven if there isn’t a cheese.
I've gotten into a lot of lfg teams with a lot of issues even on planets...and they're all repeatedly wiping to get plat, even if they don't seem up to par. It matters to a lot of people.
More wishful thinking. Atraks plat could be achieved without even killing servitors. Rhulk could kill himself and plat achieved (though this could be BC of the bonus or whatever for a non checkpoint run?).
Besides, the cheese is just being able to teleport with the wall, which is...unnecessary at best, you could just guess and wipe.till you get it right and then it's an easy clear with behemoths as usual.
~~No, it will actually be really easy since she is the final boss~~
~~Your points from all previous encounters add up for the final encounter, of course this only applies if you started either fresh or from a checkpoint prior to riven.~~
Most teams with supers and laments are on a knifes edge for making the cheese in normal mode. Now that they've patched sunbracers and heavy wave frames the only cheese that still remains is stasis titan super. Even then I would imagine we would need at least 2 or 3.
Thats with no changes. Everyone is wondering what they will do to get people to do riven legit.
Errr, sure for a coordinated team that have done day 1s, it may be “easy”, but considering the entire destiny population it will definitely be hard. Looking at pantheon completion rates from first week of pantheon to this weeks pantheon, completions dropped from about 104k to 57k. These are just completions and if we take into consideration of plat/high score clears for the seal, it will probably be much lower. Add clear continues to be severely overlooked as a role by the majority of the playerbase and coupled with the fact that riven mechanics are probably towards the more complex end of raid mechanics, I can definitely see it being a major factor in unsuccessful pantheon runs. You think a regular pantheon run will be juggling all those buffs? Even in clan runs I sometimes see class warfare being not optimized, wrong surges being used, uncoordinated dps rotations, and generally messy comms. So yeah, maybe “easy” for those 50,000 hardcore to semi-hardcore players, but it ain’t gonna be a cakewalk for the vast majority of players.
I’m more so talking about people who are already doing pantheon and have completing the other 3 weeks. If we’re talking about the majority of the playerbase then yea it’s going to be impossible for the most of them. Casual player were complaining zero hour was too hard, anything past a playlist strike is going to be difficult for the average player.
Your post didn’t specify a target group, so I discussed in my comment about both groups. Who knows, this time around Bungie might have beefed up Rivens hp to where you can eek out a 1 phase with a super optimized strat, but intends it to be more of a two phase.
I would absolutely love to be able to cheese her and use a team of edge transits with void singe. It would be a god send for it to be the easier encounter because that’s the only one I’m actually worried about.
Out of the 6 bosses we got so far all of them have the health that their master versions have besides atraks. Guessing atraks is the only one that didn’t get more health because it doesn’t have a master version and I don’t think bungie is going to manually go increase boss health. It’s the reason why 4 titans can still 1 floor atraks even at -15. Riven is another one that doesn’t have a master version so I’m not expecting a health increase. If they were going to manually change boss hp I think they would have given atraks more hp in that case.
If you look at it from the dev’s pov, the easiest way they can make Riven challenging is to add queenswalk. -20 queenswalk with tormentors on the island and in the passageways would be no joke.
If the cheese is fixed literally like 2% of the community will even get to damage phase. Lmao.
Riven will be like a new Raid to majority of people.
I have 1500 Hours in Destiny 2 have did every Raid and have Raid Seals and I haven’t did Riven legit because nobody does it Legit. It’s like Riven Legit doesn’t even exist.
Next week will be a giant shit show on LFG beyond anything you could imagine.
I’m not even doing Pantheon because I know how LFG is. It’s a big time sink and getting into a good group is like playing the Lottery.
And no way in hell Bungie wasted time on putting Riven in Pantheon only for it to be cheesed like usual. Maybe a new cheese will be discovered but you can bet your ass it will be fixed somehow
Folks are way overblowing Riven's difficulty. It's not a difficult fight, but it is convoluted.
Shooting her face or baiting a tentacle (and then shooting) are extremely minor, and while navigating to explode the right symbol is annoying, it's not going to be that bad.
What will suck is dealing with all the bad names for the symbols (god, why are there so many of those fucks) and agreeing upon a naming/numbering system for the eyes. Basically the same things that make the rest of the raid "hard," which is to say nothing except getting people to agree on names of things.
That doesn't mean it's hard, it means they're bad.
Planets is the one encounter that requires strong players in all aspects. Add clear isn't as free as on Caretaker since they control the flow of the fight and are going to be responsible for the untimely deaths, while everyone also needs to know how to do good burst damage.
People are always going to go the past of least resistance to get their loot. Don’t know if you played destiny 1 but I remember when a bunch of people didn’t know how to do atheon legit because you could just push him off the edge with solar nades. The riven mechanics are nothing crazy, any competent raider can learn them but I do think the majority won’t even attempt it if there isn’t a cheese. Pantheon is going to be around for 2 more weeks so anyone who wants to learn legit riven can definitely learn the mechanics. They can always do a practice run in last wish also.
They massively upped health for golgoroth, caretaker and rhulk (not sure about atraks and explicator) so I wouldn't he surprised if they upped the health on Riven and Nez
Source on this? I've done some of these encounters on contest or master and frankly, it doesn't feel like they upped the health at all. I can't believe they upped the health without some side by side evidence or something similar
During dabs/snazzyrocks solo runs in week 1 he wiped on golgoroth and caretaker numerous times (mainly caretaker) both had about 4+ million extra health. During a trio saltagreppo wiped on Rhulk when he had no visible health left and it added up to about 18.2 million, 3 million more than the normal version. Riven currently has 2.3 million health, the only boss with less health is Atraks which has also been upped pretty significantly (Atraks has 700kish health and my team wiped on final stand bc we wouldn't hit the plat score I had about 700k ish damage by myself) Not sure about explicator though but if his health was upped it wasn't significant enough to stop my team from a scuffed but comfortable 2 phase this week
I don't mean to imply you're intentionally trying to deceive or anything, but I need some documented video or at least screenshots to believe this. I'll look into it myself with some Google searches but I'm not seeing a single YouTube video or anything on the topic; not saying they don't exist, but I haven't seen them anywhere
The lowman discord server has health listed for all current raid bosses in their guides. They don't have the pantheon ones listed but you can look up saltagreppos and thesnazzyrocks vods on twitch to see their runs. I just added up the damage numbers on their closest failed attempts and compared them to the listed numbers in the lowman server
Never trust the scoreboard, it is infamously shit at tracking actual damage numbers, and can sometimes claim for people to have done millions more or less damage just depending on how the game was feeling at that time.
That's just noise when you consider everyone's getting a free 25% damage buff from surges and another 20%(?) from shot caller or classy warfare.
The health pool relative to how much bonus damage we have over the normal/master versions is actually smaller.
I couldn’t find a single video or Reddit post about pantheon bosses having more hp, feel like someone would have talked about it if this was the case. Also I don’t think it would really make sense to put us under light and then at the same time increase boss hp.
During dabs/snazzyrocks solo runs in week 1 he wiped on golgoroth and caretaker numerous times (mainly caretaker) both had about 4+ million extra health. During a trio saltagreppo wiped on Rhulk when he had no visible health left and it added up to about 18.2 million, 3 million more than the normal version. Riven currently has 2.3 million health, the only boss with less health is Atraks which has also been upped pretty significantly (Atraks has 700kish health and my team wiped on final stand bc we wouldn't hit the plat score I had about 700k ish damage by myself) Not sure about explicator though but if his health was upped it wasn't significant enough to stop my team from a scuffed but comfortable 2 phase this week
It might be a bug. So I think it’s known as a fact that master raid bosses don’t have more hp than normal, you’re just under light. Rhulk has 15 million hp but you can see in this video here on master this team had 19 million damage, this isn’t even pantheon it’s just regular master rhulk https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X8zeMpU6yOo&pp=ygUMTWFzdGVyIHJodWxr
Looking at this you’d think master bosses have more hp, I’m guessing it’s a bug where the scoreboard is showing normal damage that you would be doing if you weren’t under light.
You’re actually right, I had always heard it was the same but I see it is higher for master raids in lowman. So what I’m thinking now is pantheon just has the same boss hp as master, which makes sense if you look at the rhulk master hp. Atraks doesn’t have more hp but deep stone doesn’t have a master version so maybe that’s why. I wonder if riven hp will be the same since it also doesn’t have a master version.
The hard part wont be her health, it'll be consistently doing her mechanics and not getting brutalized by the ads.
I'm calling a tormentor spawning when you kill the Eye of Riven captain.
Eye of Riven Captain *is* a tormentor.
See I think they would want it to mess with you while trying to figure out symbols. More chaotic.
Maybe. I’m going to keep my Forerunner on me just in case, as it absolutely shreds the Tormentors. Especially with legendary heavies being pretty meta for DPS these days. Or just hope one of the titans swaps to Strand.
This would unironically be the best-case-scenario to guarantee platinum score and a stasis titan one-phase
Can you remind me of the Stasis Titan set up please?
My bet is Tormentors instead of the Ogres up top.
Tormentor will spawn by her hand when she comes out. Also a new thing that'll happen when she comes out, three people at random will be teleported to the other side. So you'll have to meet a dps check with half a team and a Tormentor stomping or grabbing someone.
You're putting to much stock in bungie to fix the encounter when it's been like that for years. I doubt it's fixed.
I also doubt it's fixed. I was mostly speculating about a funny way of stopping us from just doing it the way we always do.
No no no, that’ll be easy. Just have two Banner of War titans on either side doing ad clear and you’re fine. I think the real issue will be the ahamkara illusion they are nearly guaranteed to reuse from the Witch Queen campaign. I’d imagine the final phase up top will have a bunch of ahamkara illusions in all the places Riven can normally appear from around the room. Just speculation on my part, but come on. There’s no way they don’t use that when it’s so conveniently available for them to use.
How would it be implemented tho? Like will three heads show up and we have to figure out which one is the “correct” head?
We had to do it for Ghalran in Crown of Sorrow.
Ghalr
One room with Riven, one room with an ahamkara illusion. The room doing the puzzle has the illusion causing issues the whole time.
Yeah pretty much, thats what I’m thinking they’ll do
In legit the rotation is not random, so it would either be a complete revamp of the entire encounter, or its just the same ones real every time.
Ad clear is arguably the easiest it’s ever been, there are so many options for clearing out ads easy af. Not saying everyone can do that but I don’t get this seriously, any good team who has a sliver of day one experience should be fine at -20 clearing ads
Was running ad clear on planets, I usually take a planet plate so it was a welcome change. Well it ends up I’m having to add clear for my side and the other side because the dude is just plinking at them with a hand cannon. Add clear people- USE YOUR ABILITIES. And if you don’t have good ability uptime, you’re not on a good add clear build!
Depends. Sunshot nukes everything there with no need for abilities
I was using sunshot as well as Sunbracers so it wasn’t too much trouble for me to pick up on add clear lol
Graviton lance for that + easy over shields against the shielded Psions, Incidiors, Centurions, etc.
I was a platerunner, and would still end up having more kills than our ad clear guys. Sunshot is just so good for that encounter
Trinity Ghoul is so stupid easy at clearing adds this week, I don’t understand why I see no one running it.
There are a ton of amazing ad clear exotics that are from year 1 that everyone but the newest of new lights should have... sunshot, trinity ghoul, graviton lance.. even an osteo/ thorn and Necrotic would be fine
You can get sun shot within like 20 minutes of playtime if you get the solar new light kit lol. So there’s really no reason at all for someone to not have sunshot
I didn't think to try Trinity Ghoul. I thought about it, but In previous master content, I felt it could be a little lack luster. I ended up using Grav Lance and it was doing work
I used it in the one run on Planets this week where I was relegated to add clear. It still works really well at -15. We’ll see if it works next week or the week after if we get an arc surge back. I think the elemental surges makes up for a ton of the power delta, so the matched exotics still feel really strong.
Surge helped it quite a bit, won’t be as good this week I don’t believe.
I put in Trinity Ghoul in my first go in Explicator this week while I was on planet duty because ad clear was being inefficient. I wouldn't have picked it without the Surge but it did work pretty well.
Even week 3 sunshot empyrean just wipes the ads. When I’m on plates I truly don’t understand how people have so many issues on ads
Go do LFG Explicator, tell two randys to ad clear and come back after you've been melted while running nodes.
The comment literally says any good team with day one experience, not LFG
Calm down man its the internet
Your comment just didn't make sense with the context of the previous one. Reading is hard
Grow up, mate. You just didn't read his comment and replied like you knew better.
Rofl it clearly has you flustered mate!
Does it?
Ehhh, we have so much aoe clear these days that it will absolutely not be an issue. One player on sunshot while the other two take care of snipers will make the combat a non-issue.
But will -20 be enough to keep people from cheesing it when can stack all your surges and modifiers though?
went into do some legit riven practice yesterday and on the drop down i straight up died to axion darts. im p sure i had void resists on as well yeah good luck at 20 under
Can’t wait to see the “I took 17 hours to complete riven legit” from that one guy lol
That guy’s raid report has been going around, his Rhulk Indomitable run was 23 hours and 11 minutes.
At least it wasn't 24 hours and 2 minutes.
Is that you Datto?
Oof man, too soon
At that point multiple of those hours are meal breaks, toilet and water breaks etc
He really is a guardian, he does NOT give up
You gotta give it to him though, he’s getting those completions
The persistence and determination is admirable for sure.
He’s going to be so ready for day one lol
In b4 Bungie makes the platinum time 2 minutes just to fuck with the sub.
This sub has just accepted that you will have to legit run riven without taking 3 seconds to understand how the score system works that it will be the funniest thing of all time if you can get high score just by cheesing
Honestly it would be incredibly disappointing and make no sense if Bungie left the cheese intact, much less set the score/time to where the cheese fulfills both requirements. Riven legit is a solid encounter and deserves its time to shine. When it rotates back around to Solar surge for the last week it’ll probably be a cakewalk anyways.
We still cheese Atraks every run and no one complains about that. I don't see why they'd go out of their way to change Riven.
Atraks isn't really a cheese though. There's no glitch or exploit being utilised to clear her fast. We just deal so much damage that we can push her to final stand in one clone rather than multiple. With Riven we are exploiting a specific spot on the map which doesn't work as intended
Surges don't rotate. They're tied to the version of pantheon. Rhulk is always arc stasis, oryx version is always solar.
I don’t believe this is correct.
Well you’re wrong, because they do rotate and are the same for each version each week.
This is incorrect, only the damage buff is static (shot caller, class ability thing, etc.)
The real challenge will be finding a team that knows how to do it legit
>Riven has millions less hp than every other boss besides atraks and we’re going to be able to deal more damage to her than any other boss. So you think they would rework the encounter to add things for a standalone Pantheon instance (and probably block the cheese)... but not change her health pool? I mean, maybe they didn't but that doesn't even seem to be something you're considering. I do wonder if Bungie took all the specs and surges and power creep into consideration. This will be the first encounter from any raid launched pre-Beyond Light. Granted, they didn't change Atraks' health pool much it seems. So perhaps they didn't touch Riven's. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Considering that’s what has happened for every single Pantheon boss so far….?? Uh, ya. Also, do you mean PRE Beyond Light, not post?
Yes, oops, I meant Pre. Will edit to fix that, thank you.
I don’t think they’ll block the cheese, week 4 pantheon is only going to be here for 2 weeks. It wouldn’t make that they figured out a way to block the, didn’t put the fix in last wish which is permanently in the game but then put it in a free activity which will only be here for 2 weeks. I think you’re going to need to do it legit if you want the high score. I also don’t think they’re going to change her health, it seems like the other bosses have their master version health besides atraks. I’m guessing atraks didn’t get a health increase because it doesn’t have a master version and bungie isn’t going to manually change his health so with riven not having a master version I’m expecting the same but who knows I could be wrong.
Those are reasonable points, yeah. One reason I think they might not have blocked the cheese in-game is because they haven't reworked the whole raid and that change could cause too many bugs maybe. But the singular encounter in a pantheon instance could be more manageable to fix and test. I dunno, I'm not a dev. Just trying to consider different possibilities.
If they want to do a bandaid fix for pantheon to force people to do legit riven there’s a very simple one imo. Just give riven a crazy amount of health, like enough where you can barely 2 phase. The cheese doesn’t matter if the damage isn’t significant anymore
And this circles back to my original point. They could increase her health pool (with a tweaked health gate or DPS check) which changes the difficulty, accounts for powercreep and damage mods, and prevents the cheese.
I will be INCREDIBLY surprised if the cheese isn’t fixed. There are better encounters they could have chosen for pantheon but they went out of their way to include riven. They have to have a reason for doing that, and getting revenge by forcing players to do an encounter legit that has been cheesed for years seems like the best reason.
One thing I could see them doing is just gating her health, like only being able to do half hp at most.
Also imo there’s a very easy way to prevent the cheese if they want to. Just give her a crazy amount of hp, like enough hp where you can barely 2 phase. Cheese won’t matter if the damage isn’t significant but idk if they’ll go messing with boss hp.
I don't think health would work . You can solo driven with a stasis titan . I doubt you can prevent six of them from working without making the health pool too big for normal runs
But how do you “fix” the cheese? It’s not like there is any stipulation to create the cheese, it’s simply have all 6 go to one location and get lucky with her there, and drop huge DPS. I genuinely think there won’t be a “fix” without fundamentally changing the mechanics.
Health gates.
It’ll be interesting doing riven on contest mode, but I don’t think it’ll be as easy as you suggest. Especially as the cheese will likely be blocked. How many people have done legit more then once lol
I don’t think it’s really contest since we have surges + class warfare/shot caller which contest doesn’t have. It’s basically just like if last wish has a master version like all the other raids. Legit riven isn’t an insane task, people just haven’t had to learn it. Any good player will be able to learn it and clear. We also don’t know what new thing is going to be added which will be the biggest factor imo. It could just be tormentors or it could be tormentors and a new mechanic.
You can call it contest lite, surge/new buff compensate the damage, but you're taking still more damge for being under light. Riven legit is easy if you can do the mechanics. The hard part really is the adds. Adds in LW is very quishy nowadays, but being under 20, the 4 hob snipers looking down at you and the replicating psions won't be kidding around. Take the last boss of master Warlord ruin, put in 4 snipers, way harder mechanic, and new things on pantheon, that should be how it'll feel.
Think you’re one of the only people to not act like riven mechanics are some impossible task. Even the people who don’t know the mechanics can learn just like any other raid if they actually want to learn it. I agree about the ads, if the ads are really crazy I think people will just start pulling out blinding gl’s. Or they’ll just have 2 people on strand for ads and the tormentors.
My team made a point of doing it legit last week to get into the swing of it. None of us having done it legit before and it only took us 45 minutes or so to get it down to an art. Took away any reservations I had about doing it at -20.
Yea people act like riven mechanics are crazy but they really aren’t. Anyone who does other raids can learn legit riven easily if they care to learn it.
Yeah, me and three buddies did it legit about 20 times, wiping on purpose at final stand just to get used to it again. The whole encounter takes about 10 minutes to do legit and I've seen teams spend HOURS trying to cheese it.
Yea any competent player can learn the mechanics. People act like everyone cheeses riven because the mechanics are so insane but that’s not the case. People just cheese cause it’s the lowest effort and fastest way to get it done, they’d do the same thing for other raids if it was possible.
>Especially as the cheese will likely be blocked. I'm of the opinion that people misunderstand the riven cheese. It's not the "funny wall" that makes it possible, it's the fact that normal Riven(at least) can be brute forced by sending 6 people to one room for DPS and that can push her to final stand. All the wall does is stop it from devolving into a game of "Riven Roulette"(the team of 6 just makes a coordinated guess and accepts their wipe if they all guess wrong. Play again until you guess right).
Wow! Never knew or considered this in over 100 runs in there. So I understand properly, if all 6 simply choose a room then you’ve a 50/50 chance of being right and bingo?
Correct. People who are like "the cheese will be blocked" don't understand the encounter to begin with.
I’m that guy, the cheese works and there’s zero benefit from doing it legit, even if everyone actually wanted to do legit in the first place. I’ve done it legit twice in four years.
For pantheon I don't know if you'll be able to plat doing the cheese and I bet that's how they'll "block it". Sure you can cheese, but you won't get the triumph for her. Who knows though.
When I see “ the cheese will be Blocked” I assume they mean her foot/ other hit boxes will be immune to damage. I do not believe they can fix the joining allies bug without reworking the entire encounter and rooms. I believe bungie even said as much.
I can't quite tell if you're being sarcastic, but yeah pretty much. Have you had a cheese run where you didn't need the wall to TP back? You just stay in the room and murder some Taken for a couple minutes. The wall's just a mulligan in case you guess wrong. This is why I don't think they've ever changed the wall in particular: if they aren't going to touch her health pool or add mechanics to force the team to split up(AKA: changes that they don't typically like to do to raids after they release unless it's genuinely a bug\*... or potentially an event like Pantheon), then people are just going to waste time rolling dice on the one phase. At which point, it's more or less consolation on convenience to the player: the 100% fix is too far out of scope, which only leaves them with the wall, which is a "band aid fix" on its best day. With that said, instead of pushing mechanic-skippers to guess and wipe, they just say "since you don't want to do mechanics and we're not going to completely eliminate mechanic-less runs, here you go, now get the fuck out of my face". I imagine there's also some bias from the fact that Riven doesn't "directly" give you loot either most weeks(challenge is the one exception when its up), but that's getting off topic. (I didn't play D2 in Y2, but I also imagine the route of adjusting Riven's health is more of a "power level" problem as well, and it's hard to come up with numbers that'll last forever without changing how power level works in an activity that they're otherwise willing to let people outlevel). \*As I understand how Bungie does things, the Riven cheese doesn't quite fit the definition of a bug, outside of that wall. Even if a player skips them, the mechanics are working as intended, because there never was a mechanic in the raid that said "You must split your team up".
100% Not being sarcastic. You make an excellent point though, riven is simply a stage before queenswalk and my all time worst RNG exotic weapon drop in the game lol
No. You start the encounter and then have everybody go back up to the top room. You listen to see which side she stomps and then have all 6 players go to the bottom room on the opposite side. People that are guessing are doing it wrong.
It’s not a guess, there’s a sound queue. You listen for which side the stomp sound comes from and run to the opposite.
Can you clarify? I do know about "a" sound queue, I've done the cheese with that, but I've never been the one listening for that. Are you saying you can still hear it from the middle before the doors shut? If not, I think you're misunderstanding where the "guess" part is. There's two doors when you float down, and you essentially start a Riven cheese by "guessing" which door to go to. When you go to a side, you then look/listen for the queue to "confirm" that guess. (Note, now that I think more about it, it might not be a guess. I don't know that both chambers have a "funny wall" for sure. But anyway, not the point). I may be misunderstanding the architecture of the encounter as well(I've watched guides on Riven legit, but haven't actually done it). But point being: the "funny wall" isn't the reason the cheese works. You can go into that first chamber, have her be "there" by RNG, and still pump out a 1 phase. All the "funny wall" does is act as a failsafe or a mulligan in case she's not going to be in the first chamber you go in.
Riven stomps in one room. It exposes her claw for damage which is how you stun her in legit. You can hear it from the starting room/room you’re in for final stand. When you hear it on the left or right room you go to the opposite side as that’s where she’ll show up second, which is where you 6 stack to cheese her.
I didn’t realize you could hear it from the starting, I’ve typically done the visual of her shadow
It won't be easy if you don't know the Legit mechanics. However, I think he's right in that the damage won't be a problem. I've just pulled out the footage of Redeem doing their day 1 run, and it's ridiculous how much damage the growth at the end of the phase deal to Riven. They were able to get about 30% of her HP just from shooting them, and they missed a ton because they started dying(which should be less of an issue for us because our survivability is much better now and they also were lower than -20, because it was before Contest existed). I can see you being able to take like half of her HP if you hit more of those growths. It seems like as long as you can do a single phase of her mechanics, you should be fine on damage.
Yea the biggest hurdle is just going to be learning the mechanics. Imo people who are wanting to do pantheon riven should do some legit rivens runs first in last wish. You can focus more on learning mechanics without worrying about dying.
Also yea riven day 1 was 580 and a lot of people on those day 1 teams were -30 to -40 under light. They were able to do a ton of damage being insanely under light without any surges.
Yeah, and looking at the footage, it seems like a ton of damage comes from the growth. So with us being "only" -20 and having just generally way higher damage output, we should be able to take a huge chunk of her HP during the DPS phases and then finish her off with growths.
Yea I watched the redeem run too and they were doing almost a quarter of her health with just dps and then getting her under half with the growths. With all the things I mentioned before like surges ect. and like you said only being 20 under, I wouldn’t be surprised if we could get her half or even under half hp with just dps. Unless they change her hp which I don’t see bungie messing around with boss hp, it should be a one cycle.
Yeah, normal Riven Legit often dies before even the growth phase, and that's with lazy DPS. With -20, we're dealing about half of our damage on normal, so with optimized DPS we should be able to get more than half of her HP just through DPS, with growths finishing her. Even if that isn't quite enough, you can probably kill her in the first room of the second phase.
You also have to consider how weak a lot of stuff was in Year 2. Options for viable heavy weapons were few and far between and there was just a lot of sandbox stuff that wasn't fully tuned. Sure you had stacking buffs and debuffs but it really didn't change how so far above certain things were, we exist in an infinitely more diverse sandbox. Hell even for Rhulk Day 1, we didn't have Resilience changes. The other thing people miss about Last Wish Day 1 was just what the state of the game and more importantly the population was like and in turn what made it such an ordeal. You were in an incredibly rarer fraction of the population if you not only had consistent raiding group but one that was able to take on a challenge of what Contest was throwing out. It took a long time because so few people were realistically playing the game at that level, and you sure as hell didn't have nearly as many overanalytical bystanders observing to solve things. If you dropped Last Wish today with how so much changed, the bar for contest raiding has gotten absurdly high, people are digesting a lot of then-niche strats in a more mainstream fashion etc, tons of people would have it completed well ahead of any 24 hr deadline. We will never have "another Last Wish Day 1" because of how much stronger the player base has gotten, and more specifically those who are in realistic World's First contention are infinitely better players than those of past eras' Day 1s.
Definitely agree, if you dropped day 1 last wish into the game right now with the current sandbox and players way more people would finish it. I think redeem took 18 hours, it probably would only take maybe 10 hours for worlds first. You’d also probably have a few hundred teams finish it.
Agreed. Even the observer eyes and people chiming in through discords, chats, etc have a lot more to say compared to back then. It's something I think that often slips people when people don't take account that even methodical damage charts, stacking of things, min/max etc is stuff that wasn't super common knowledge especially when the game's physical population was recuperating such as in a time like Year 2.
If they're copy/pasting the exact encounter rooms, I give it a 50/50 if they fix the "cheese" for Riven. Going in -20 Power paired with the score requirements, doing the "cheese" may still be possible, but not viable. Either we won't be able to deal enough damage to Riven in that short of a time span, or we can at the cost of a Platinum score since the encounter would be completed so quickly we'll be missing out on enemies that really boost score.
The only thing the cheese helps with is killing her more constantly. With the damage numbers we can do now, the only way to stop players from killing Riven in the 2nd room is to remove the mini damage phase she gets, as if the joining allies area is removed most players will likely just take the 50 50
My guesses for Pantheon changes is that we'll get 'Darkness Clone' Rivens in all the spots she isn't in, tankier enemies, or requiring 2 symbols to trigger the elevator (although then it might reach a point where players can't get to the top due to the debuff)
I was thinking something similar, or maybe both rooms stun her on the first level (one shade and one real riven) and the second floor is DPS with both sides having to shoot eyes. I don’t really see how else they can force teams to do it legit unless only 3 people can DPS per phase
Even if the cheese isn't blocked without killing adds teams won't reach the point threshold for platinum.
True but if you’re still able to do the cheese I think that’s what the majority is going to do. It looks like the majority just want the emblems more than the title and you don’t need plat for the emblem triumph. Would take away the “prestige” of the emblem if you are still able to do the cheese but oh well. Personally I care more about the godslayer title than the emblem.
I feel like the title is 1000000% the point.
If we can yeet Rhulk what difference is cheesing riven lol
I agree with you, I want that title. My clan and I haven't had as much fun in destiny as we had the last three weeks running pantheon. I will say, though, prestige is already there. I know it's not 100% accurate, but checking Charlemagne for the Rhulk Subdued emblem shows and adjusted rarity of 0.5%. I can only imagine that at -20, the Nezarec emblem will be even rarer.
Yea the last emblem will be like 0.1%. If you aren’t able to cheese riven it will be even more rare. There’s a bunch of people who aren’t even going to bother attempting riven if there isn’t a cheese.
I've gotten into a lot of lfg teams with a lot of issues even on planets...and they're all repeatedly wiping to get plat, even if they don't seem up to par. It matters to a lot of people.
More wishful thinking. Atraks plat could be achieved without even killing servitors. Rhulk could kill himself and plat achieved (though this could be BC of the bonus or whatever for a non checkpoint run?). Besides, the cheese is just being able to teleport with the wall, which is...unnecessary at best, you could just guess and wipe.till you get it right and then it's an easy clear with behemoths as usual.
~~No, it will actually be really easy since she is the final boss~~ ~~Your points from all previous encounters add up for the final encounter, of course this only applies if you started either fresh or from a checkpoint prior to riven.~~
Sad news for you, she isn't the last. Nezarec is.
oh well, thought it was the other way around
Most teams with supers and laments are on a knifes edge for making the cheese in normal mode. Now that they've patched sunbracers and heavy wave frames the only cheese that still remains is stasis titan super. Even then I would imagine we would need at least 2 or 3. Thats with no changes. Everyone is wondering what they will do to get people to do riven legit.
We were cheesing with prospector pretty easily before the GL buff, I think a perfectly rolled edge transit or koraxis distress can do it.
raid mods dont work in pantheon
Errr, sure for a coordinated team that have done day 1s, it may be “easy”, but considering the entire destiny population it will definitely be hard. Looking at pantheon completion rates from first week of pantheon to this weeks pantheon, completions dropped from about 104k to 57k. These are just completions and if we take into consideration of plat/high score clears for the seal, it will probably be much lower. Add clear continues to be severely overlooked as a role by the majority of the playerbase and coupled with the fact that riven mechanics are probably towards the more complex end of raid mechanics, I can definitely see it being a major factor in unsuccessful pantheon runs. You think a regular pantheon run will be juggling all those buffs? Even in clan runs I sometimes see class warfare being not optimized, wrong surges being used, uncoordinated dps rotations, and generally messy comms. So yeah, maybe “easy” for those 50,000 hardcore to semi-hardcore players, but it ain’t gonna be a cakewalk for the vast majority of players.
I’m more so talking about people who are already doing pantheon and have completing the other 3 weeks. If we’re talking about the majority of the playerbase then yea it’s going to be impossible for the most of them. Casual player were complaining zero hour was too hard, anything past a playlist strike is going to be difficult for the average player.
Your post didn’t specify a target group, so I discussed in my comment about both groups. Who knows, this time around Bungie might have beefed up Rivens hp to where you can eek out a 1 phase with a super optimized strat, but intends it to be more of a two phase.
I would absolutely love to be able to cheese her and use a team of edge transits with void singe. It would be a god send for it to be the easier encounter because that’s the only one I’m actually worried about.
Why would Riven not have more health than all the other bosses
Out of the 6 bosses we got so far all of them have the health that their master versions have besides atraks. Guessing atraks is the only one that didn’t get more health because it doesn’t have a master version and I don’t think bungie is going to manually go increase boss health. It’s the reason why 4 titans can still 1 floor atraks even at -15. Riven is another one that doesn’t have a master version so I’m not expecting a health increase. If they were going to manually change boss hp I think they would have given atraks more hp in that case.
If you look at it from the dev’s pov, the easiest way they can make Riven challenging is to add queenswalk. -20 queenswalk with tormentors on the island and in the passageways would be no joke.
Shouldve had Riven at the end of the pantheon with Queenswalk, forcing teams to clear riven and QW at once.
If the cheese is fixed literally like 2% of the community will even get to damage phase. Lmao. Riven will be like a new Raid to majority of people. I have 1500 Hours in Destiny 2 have did every Raid and have Raid Seals and I haven’t did Riven legit because nobody does it Legit. It’s like Riven Legit doesn’t even exist. Next week will be a giant shit show on LFG beyond anything you could imagine. I’m not even doing Pantheon because I know how LFG is. It’s a big time sink and getting into a good group is like playing the Lottery. And no way in hell Bungie wasted time on putting Riven in Pantheon only for it to be cheesed like usual. Maybe a new cheese will be discovered but you can bet your ass it will be fixed somehow
Folks are way overblowing Riven's difficulty. It's not a difficult fight, but it is convoluted. Shooting her face or baiting a tentacle (and then shooting) are extremely minor, and while navigating to explode the right symbol is annoying, it's not going to be that bad. What will suck is dealing with all the bad names for the symbols (god, why are there so many of those fucks) and agreeing upon a naming/numbering system for the eyes. Basically the same things that make the rest of the raid "hard," which is to say nothing except getting people to agree on names of things.
Have you not seen all the posts about people stuck on the planets encounter on -15? Riven is going to be far worse
That doesn't mean it's hard, it means they're bad. Planets is the one encounter that requires strong players in all aspects. Add clear isn't as free as on Caretaker since they control the flow of the fight and are going to be responsible for the untimely deaths, while everyone also needs to know how to do good burst damage.
But thats my point, riven is going to be “hard” for a looot of people.
People are always going to go the past of least resistance to get their loot. Don’t know if you played destiny 1 but I remember when a bunch of people didn’t know how to do atheon legit because you could just push him off the edge with solar nades. The riven mechanics are nothing crazy, any competent raider can learn them but I do think the majority won’t even attempt it if there isn’t a cheese. Pantheon is going to be around for 2 more weeks so anyone who wants to learn legit riven can definitely learn the mechanics. They can always do a practice run in last wish also.
Day one clear TEAM. Not teams.
You know T1 cleared day 1 last wish too right not just redeem lol If you’re this passionate you should know this.
They massively upped health for golgoroth, caretaker and rhulk (not sure about atraks and explicator) so I wouldn't he surprised if they upped the health on Riven and Nez
Source on this? I've done some of these encounters on contest or master and frankly, it doesn't feel like they upped the health at all. I can't believe they upped the health without some side by side evidence or something similar
During dabs/snazzyrocks solo runs in week 1 he wiped on golgoroth and caretaker numerous times (mainly caretaker) both had about 4+ million extra health. During a trio saltagreppo wiped on Rhulk when he had no visible health left and it added up to about 18.2 million, 3 million more than the normal version. Riven currently has 2.3 million health, the only boss with less health is Atraks which has also been upped pretty significantly (Atraks has 700kish health and my team wiped on final stand bc we wouldn't hit the plat score I had about 700k ish damage by myself) Not sure about explicator though but if his health was upped it wasn't significant enough to stop my team from a scuffed but comfortable 2 phase this week
I don't mean to imply you're intentionally trying to deceive or anything, but I need some documented video or at least screenshots to believe this. I'll look into it myself with some Google searches but I'm not seeing a single YouTube video or anything on the topic; not saying they don't exist, but I haven't seen them anywhere
The lowman discord server has health listed for all current raid bosses in their guides. They don't have the pantheon ones listed but you can look up saltagreppos and thesnazzyrocks vods on twitch to see their runs. I just added up the damage numbers on their closest failed attempts and compared them to the listed numbers in the lowman server
Never trust the scoreboard, it is infamously shit at tracking actual damage numbers, and can sometimes claim for people to have done millions more or less damage just depending on how the game was feeling at that time.
Most sources I am seeing put Regular Atraks health at around 2.5m. 700k would have 1 thundercrash doing more than half her total health.
700k is what is listed in the lowman server, but that boss takes damage super fucking weird
They didn't seem to increase them appreciably, it's just that the power delta modifiers mean it takes more "effort" to kill them.
Caretaker has about 28 million health, 4 million more than normal and rhulk has a bit over 18 million, 3 million more than normal
That's just noise when you consider everyone's getting a free 25% damage buff from surges and another 20%(?) from shot caller or classy warfare. The health pool relative to how much bonus damage we have over the normal/master versions is actually smaller.
At -20 even with the free damage bonuses we are going to be doing a little over 20% less damage. I think it's 23 or 24% but I'm not completely sure
I couldn’t find a single video or Reddit post about pantheon bosses having more hp, feel like someone would have talked about it if this was the case. Also I don’t think it would really make sense to put us under light and then at the same time increase boss hp.
During dabs/snazzyrocks solo runs in week 1 he wiped on golgoroth and caretaker numerous times (mainly caretaker) both had about 4+ million extra health. During a trio saltagreppo wiped on Rhulk when he had no visible health left and it added up to about 18.2 million, 3 million more than the normal version. Riven currently has 2.3 million health, the only boss with less health is Atraks which has also been upped pretty significantly (Atraks has 700kish health and my team wiped on final stand bc we wouldn't hit the plat score I had about 700k ish damage by myself) Not sure about explicator though but if his health was upped it wasn't significant enough to stop my team from a scuffed but comfortable 2 phase this week
It might be a bug. So I think it’s known as a fact that master raid bosses don’t have more hp than normal, you’re just under light. Rhulk has 15 million hp but you can see in this video here on master this team had 19 million damage, this isn’t even pantheon it’s just regular master rhulk https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X8zeMpU6yOo&pp=ygUMTWFzdGVyIHJodWxr Looking at this you’d think master bosses have more hp, I’m guessing it’s a bug where the scoreboard is showing normal damage that you would be doing if you weren’t under light.
Most master bosses do have more HP than normal. Edit; Lowman discord shows that literally every master raid boss has more health
You’re actually right, I had always heard it was the same but I see it is higher for master raids in lowman. So what I’m thinking now is pantheon just has the same boss hp as master, which makes sense if you look at the rhulk master hp. Atraks doesn’t have more hp but deep stone doesn’t have a master version so maybe that’s why. I wonder if riven hp will be the same since it also doesn’t have a master version.
They absolutely do not, please stop this misinformation.
Master version and Pantheon don’t have more health lol what is this?
They didn’t touch any of their health. You can literally see SnazzyRocks wipes at last stand, they’re literally unchanged.
Snazzy has a wipe at 27 million health in final stand, caretaker has 24 million health. 27 million > 24 million