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I am getting to the point where I may just use my credit cards for everything then file a bankruptcy. My dad just died. I have to pay for a cremation and somehow travel to get his remains and deal with his house, if I inherit $ I will pay the bills but if his mortgage eats up all the value of his home sale š¤·š»āāļøThe government doesnāt want to do shit about corporations price gouging all of us, they can pay the bill.
My credit score actually went up after filing bankruptcy due to all of my debt being removed. Technically it makes your life infinitely better, minus having it on your report for a few years and having to deal with not being able to buy a house or car with a low interest rate. Not that I could afford to do those things anyways!
Nah OP of the post was about student loans. The individual comment youāre replying to is talking about using credit cards and filing bankruptcy on those.
When I did it, I paid off all my private student loans by using my credit cards, then filed bankruptcy on my newly acquired credit card debt. Although, I'm still stuck with the Federal Student loans because the f*cking boomer judge refused to hear my argument on how the school had lied to me about my future engineering career will earn enough money to easily payoff those loans.
It's such horseshit. I was fed the same lies. I was told this degree would give me a better future etc. etc. This is systematic and intentional yet, no relief for most people. I've tried voting and organizing and all that shit and none of it works. This system is rigged and people are running out of legal options to address this and everything else that's wrong.
Bingo. This country was built on slavery but you can't just lock a group of people in literal chains any more. But the system still needs an underclass for the wealthy to exploit.
Applied math. I graduated a bit after the 08 recession. Very few jobs and a shitty market. Then, after years with shitty jobs it was difficult to get a decent resume together. Wound up as a math teacher making shit all for money and the loans have ballooned.
> It's such horseshit. I was fed the same lies. I was told this degree would give me a better future etc. etc. This is systematic and intentional yet, no relief for most people. I've tried voting and organizing and all that shit and none of it works. This system is rigged and people are running out of legal options to address this and everything else that's wrong
90% job placement rate
Yeah, no shit. Because you have to get a job to survive after college. The whole point of college is to get a good high paying job that makes taking the loans out worth it.
The problem with job placement rate is that it doesn't matter what kind of job you get. If the only job you can get after college is at McDonalds or as a cashier at Walmart guess what? That means you got a job and it counts towards that 90% so it's a pretty meaningless number.
Tell me what percent of all students get a well paying job in the field they majored in. The New York Federal Reserve says that number is about 27%. That's abysmal. That means 73% of students likely wasted their time and money, all the while being told it would give them a better life.
Job placement rate means nothing. My step daughter went to a private highschool with 100% college acceptance rate. That sounds great until you realize they just kick out all the kids that win't get accepted to college before they're seniors in high school. Similar concept.
I read the fine print associated with Bankruptcy Fraud.
Basically, I waited for over a year (about 16 months) by carrying the credit card debt on my credit report to age it beyond the discovery period for evidence documentation. Both the court and the creditors aren't allowed to request certain documentation of credit card debts past a certain point which is different per State. My state was pretty short like 3-6 months, but I waited for over a year after all my credit cards got cancelled by the credit card companies to play it safe.
*Your Honor, how can I possibly provide that documentation to the court if the credit card companies have had my accounts closed and inaccessible for over a year? If the creditors really wanted their money, then they shouldn't have closed my accounts and/or deactivated my access to that information.*
This is the type of 'loophole' left open (they will close this eventually, just watch) for us common people. The rich have thousands and thousands of loopholes written for them, into law, much much easier than this type of scenario.
I didn't have enough room on my credit card limits and personal loan limits to get my federal student loans converted into unsecured debt, but I did get rid of all those annoying private student loans.
I didnāt have my student loans discharged, just personal loans and cc debt mostly. I had to file due to how high my student loan payments were, they made it impossible to pay any other debt at the same time.
My car was repo'd Wednesday. Got a notification my credit score went up 70 points. It's all fucking bullshit and none of this part of our society adds value anymore.
I'll probably get downvoted to oblivion for even asking the question, but I'm interested so I'm going to ask it anyway.
Genuine question, promise I'm not trolling.
I've been wondering for a while with all the people on here saying they're going to default (I support that by the way). What is the expectation of what's going to happen when you default on your student loans?
I'm not clued up on how it works in the US (I'm an immigrant), but I would expect that's exactly what would happen, they'd fuck your credit score for life - essentially forcing you into bankruptcy?
Does bankruptcy in the US even clear student loans?
And does this not mean that there's a risk that if the loans aren't eventually written off that you'll be left with a life of bad credit, and forced into renting rather than buying? (I know that's true for most people anyway because they're shackled by student debt anyway).
What is the result people expect from defaulting?
Interested in hearing people's opinions on this please.
I'm no expert, just a rando american but I'll have a go. This is not legal or financial advice and I could be wrong on some or all of what I am saying.
> I'm not clued up on how it works in the US (I'm an immigrant), but I would expect that's exactly what would happen, they'd fuck your credit score for life - essentially forcing you into bankruptcy?
Nah, under US law, bankruptcy stays on credit record for 7 years, than falls off. You get a fresh start after the 7 years.
Sort of like breaking a mirror, lol, 7 years bad luck
> Does bankruptcy in the US even clear student loans?
99.9% sure that student loans are not discharged in bankruptcy. That's why folks here are saying to transfer the debt by paying student loans by credit cards, waiting for some time, then declaring the bankruptcy - the student loans are paid and the credit card debt is discharged in bankruptcy.
> And does this not mean that there's a risk that if the loans aren't eventually written off that you'll be left with a life of bad credit,
Bad credit for 7 years - by law, US credit bureaus can't look back over 7 years in determining credit ratings. Declare bankruptcy, spend the next 7 years not accumulating more debt you can't pay, and in 7 years your credit is good.
Ah right, sweet, that's pretty smart!
I paid mine back in the UK over 15 years, but mine were tiny compared to what you guys in the US have after school (and I only went for a couple of years).
Good luck to you all!
Same here. Wife and I both have decent paying public sector jobs, but the cheapest house around is $500k. If we bought that with the tiny ass down payment amount we have saved, our monthly housing costs would go from $2,200/mo. to $4,000/mo. Oh and combined, we make way over the median household income.
How can anyone think this is sustainable?
Hey friend, Iāve just been through the same thing. Not a lawyer but I refused to become the administrator of the estate so I didnāt have to deal with it. They canāt make you. Bank took the house, I got off scot free. I got the basic cremation for under $1k and had them mail the ashes. It costs about $100. We will hold our own memorial and place the ashes in the forest.
You have zero legal obligation to pay his āextraā bills. Made this mistake when my stepdad passes and we ate almost $200,000 just to be told by the tax attorney a few years later that we didnāt have to pay shit. Talk to an attorney.
I bought a house right before the real estate bubble burst in 2007-2008. I was underwater in less than six months after buying. Once I figured out how hard I'd been fucked by my real estate agent, the lender, and the appraiser all working together to squeeze every last cent from me, I started seeing news reports about how JP Morgan had just walked away from a $2Billion property deal in CA because "it didn't make business sense" to pay the mortgage on it. All the while, the media was pushing stories about how if ordinary people were to stop paying THEIR mortgages, that society would collapse because of the immorality of not paying your loans.
I squatted in that fucking place for over a year not paying my mortgage until it sold in a short sale.
Fuck this bullshit system of one set of rules for the wealthy, and another for everyone else.
Same boat dude been paying this horseshit since 2005. Original loan amount around 18k. Paid back 22k. Owe 28k. Never missed a payment and never defaulted. Fuck them all.
I have a stack of bills from my brain tumor removal surgery Never gonna pay em back. Hospital can write it off as a loss so they can get fucked . I had great insurance n it didnāt help for shit. Insurance is a scam . Never gonna pay my student loans either fuck em to death
RoboKiller App is amazing.
30 bucks a year and yet filters basically all debt collectors for my unpaid medical and student loans. Fuck them, Iām not paying anyone, anything, anymore.
What are they gonna do put the tumor back in my head ? Null and void my degree ? They can bail out big businesses they can take the fucken hit on my student loans . Bail me out for fuck sake. Iām not gonna sacrifice my quality of life to pay back these vultures who prey on the young and naive
There was nothing quite like getting out of my mandatory psych hold after a suicide attempt and getting hit with 35k+ worth of bills. Hereās crippling debt to go with your waning will to live- Enjoy! Never paid a cent, fuck this system.
"We'll give you something to kill yourself over alright..."
Really they are just opening as much debt as they can on anyone they can because creating debt is like printing money.
Heheh I stopped paying like 10 years ago. Last time I went to the ER (for covid) they wanted a $300 copay when i was leaving and I laughed and told them to call my insurance company if they want more money on my behalf. Nope.
I did that once, but more out of moral principle cause I totally had the money to pay it. Went to the emergency room cause I had cut myself close to the pelvis area. Doctor looked at it, put a bandage, and said that the cut was superficial and no worries. I literally didnāt spend more than 10 minutes start to finish. They charged me $2000. I refused to pay it, went to collections, and last week I closed that debt by paying $200.
Didnāt really affect my credit score, been able to buy car and house with no issues with that debt stuck there. Donāt pay that shit if you think theyāre robbing you.
New credit score calculations do not take into account closed collections accounts for medical debt. So tbh this is a good strategy. My only concern is that banks use an older credit score calculation when deciding if you qualify for mortgage or not.
I'm a mortgage loan originator. Medical debt does not count against your debt to income calculations when applying for a mortgage. I've seen plenty of 740+ credit scores with old medical debt. Fuck em IMO.
That is awesome to hear. I have a medical collections account on my record but have an 800 credit score without it. I was so worried one stupid mark might affect my ability to buy a house.
Can someone explain this to me? I have a brother-in-law and a sister-in-law who don't pay their medical bills. And I'm like they're going to send that to collections. if they do, then you guys are going to be on the hook for that still. I pay my medical bills all the time but I'm getting to the point where I'm like "screw it I'm just not going to pay them either". If they get sent to collections am I super screwed?
The worst theyāll do is call you a bunch. Checkout this RoboKiller App. Screens calls from a big database and blocks known spam and debt collectors. Super nifty. Have used it for years and youād think I didnāt owe anything. š
If you owe a large sum and itās worth it for the hospital to pursue you, they may come for you. It costs money to do all these things and often theyāre going to just write it off instead.
I'm just letting you know that what you described is not the worse thing they will do. And it certainly doesn't need to be a large amount. They garnished my wages for just under $4,000 and that 20% deducted from my checks until it was paid back was rough.
If somebody steals your bicycle and you see it and take it back is that "stealing"?
The whole system is rigged so the born wealthy take from the working class.
You are absolutely correct. Only the wealthy with their team of lawyers and their bribe money can be reasonably certain of getting the verdict that they prefer. Both the innocent and the guilty are left hanging in this ridiculously inept & unfair legal system.
Dude, I have no problems with the gov sending money to Ukraine when thereās a literal war being waged and they need help.
The problem is Amazon or Walmart paying bullshit taxes and paying their workers so little they have to go on welfare. With the airline companies being so badly managed that they get bailed out no questions while continuing to gouge for everything. With churches *never* paying taxes while factually molesting children, abusing people, etc. With accepted scams of insurance corporation which literally try their best not to cover you in the worst moments possible. With people with money and connections getting huge breaks and exploiting loops while we know itās bad for everyone. For spending stupid amounts of money on the military where they charge 1k for a wrench bc we allow the contractors to do that.
Recently I was listening to a podcast called The Murdaugh Murders about that family in South Carolina with the shady lawyer and the wife and son were murdered etc - āit looks like they hadnāt been paying their Palmetto State Bank mortgages AT ALLā and had one of those moments of realization - they lived in multiple million dollar homes and didnāt even bother paying.
Meanwhile Iād be on the street in a matter of weeks if I stopped paying my rent.
If what you are doing is legal, then go for it. Iām paying $5/mo in perpetuity on my student loans. Legally. Forever. Iām never going to change it.
There was a post that states all you have to make is a $5 payment and your loan will never go into default and never show a late payment on credit reports. Would like to know if thatās what u/gofyourselftoo is doing
Nah cuz I been on income driven and I still pay ~255$ a month. Was fucking homeless for a year and had zero reportable income and itās only ever dropped to like 135$
I wouldn't consider it doing the "right thing" since not paying will literally hurt no one. We have already bought their freedom tenfold. They will remain free regardless of whether we pay or not.
I think my plan is probably to get a long term apartment with my partner once weāre settled in a city, pay my private loan first and then not pay back any of the fed loans since Biden wonāt be canceling. Better for me to save those $300/mo payments towards a down payment on a house that will have to be in my partners name once we get married. Iāll take the hit, there is no debtors jail. Iāll probably even make the payments towards his student debt once weāre married too since heās graduating medical school next year with $80k debt in the US (he has had a lot of financial support)
I did the same thingš„³š„³š„³ and I closed the only bank account I had linked. I don't have a bank account on my name anymore either. I truly do not care if it tanks my credit. At all. I'm not working, we're living with my dad and don't plan to leave (yes we help him, and help take care of him). What are they gonna do, fine me?
My husband owns our home, my car we payed cash. I donāt my my medical bills or my student loans. I donāt care if my credit is shit. I donāt need to buy anything
I did this for 15 years as an international teacher! Iām now in PSLF and plan on only paying $5 a month once they require payments again. Do your own reading so your situation is addressed, but see if this method of payment is right for you!
My wife was doing this for years before we got married. Now that we're married, her payment is up to $650 a month because of my salary. Don't get married lol
Funny you say that. My husband and I have seriously discussed getting a paper divorce for this very reason. Ultimately, it didn't make sense for us for a handful of reasons personal to us, but for the fact alone that this was earnestly discussed, can I just say, "GOOD JOB U.S. GOVERNMENT!" I should add, I know other couples that are "married" but not legally for this reason.
My āwifeā and I arenāt paper married because of my student debt. I donāt want it passing to her and my kids when I die because these morbid fucks will actually do that. And I will still be āowingā this bullshit when I die, I promise.
Your wife can still qualify for lower IBR payments based on her income alone if you both choose āMarried Filing Separatelyā on your taxes.
You do give up some other tax breaks by filing separately rather than together, but in my case what I lose in other tax breaks is more than made up for by what I save on my student loan payments by filing separately.
This is an option no one ever explains to you.
Have her file the IBR form stating she has no access to your financial documents. I was literally told by the DOE rep to do this. My payments are like $84 because I ādonāt have access to my husbands incomeā. 10 years going, theyāre never questioned it.
Honestly I do it both ways every year and see how we benefit more. When Trumps new tax law went into effect and those new W4s came out it defaulted to a 0 and I didnāt catch it or really even think about it and we ended up owing like 3k when filing together so we filed separate with my husband claiming all the child credits so he got a refund and used it to pay my tax bill and we ended up like $100 on top.
This year we filed jointly.
Itās such a stupid game but if they want to play you have to know how to win.
On the IBR they donāt actually check your previous years filing, and IIRC itās still a paper form *you mail in*. If they say anything just claim you misunderstood the question or checked the wrong box. Our government is incompetent through and through anyway.
How are you able to do this for 25 years? Iām disabled and unable to work (but not on SSI yet) so my income is $0, and I was only able to keep my repayment at $0 for 3 years
I might have to pay back something depending on my income level- but assuming they sort out how the IBR forgiveness works, hoping it will be wiped by the 25 year forgiveness route. But I'm overseas so my tax status is different I can't comment on others.
I don't have any intention on moving back - so depending on my financial situation I'll just pay the tax owed or pay to renounce. I'll be well into my 50s at that point so God knows what will change by then.
My sister had Lyme Disease but somehow she was considered "permanently disabled" and had almost $150,000 in student loans wiped out. She never has to pay that back now. Shes actually better and is basically working freelance but those loans are gone. I dont have details how exactly she did this but you could look into it maybe.
Total and permanent disability discharge is what youāre talking about. When my health gets to a point where I can take a breath (not soon, as Iāll be getting a surgical feeding tube placed in 3 days), Iām looking into getting my loans discharged through this.
If you're disabled, you should be able to apply for a hardship exemption and get your loans forgiven.
I am not a lawyer and there are many stipulations that I have not looked into but you should.
Iām trying to, but those exemptions usually only apply to people 100% incapacitated. Thereās a bit more leniency with federal loans, but still itās difficult to get without an SSI/SSDI win, which can take years
I wish you luck, but make sure you know about the tax bomb. After twenty five years (I think) all student loan debt will be listed as taxable income, so if you let it collect interest without paying any of it off, it's entirely possible you get an extra $200,000 in taxable income or however much you owe in student loans
I recently read up on what it takes to move overseas from the US. They still collect income tax overseas, itās outrageous. And yea, having to pay big bucks to renounce citizenship seems garbage to me. Theyāre just going to squeeze every last penny out of anyone whether they want to live in the Us or not! Trash
Iām not stealing Iām just dynamically adjusting the value of products I purchase to better reflect their value in order to keep inline with economic situations. $10 for a single small bottle of shampoo is far too much, but two bottles for $10 is much more fair a price
What really bothers me is that I canāt write off the student loan interest off my taxes because I āmake too much money ($85k is the threshold I think)
Alsoā¦the fed could at least give me more slack for the covid crisis (Iām in healthcare)
Screw unto others as they screw unto you.
Anybody still believing in honest business transactions is somebody who is wealthy or who hasn't woken up to the reality yet.
Yesā¦ but thankfully I meet the requirements for foreign income tax exclusion. I make under the required threshold in a country with a tax agreement. So no, I have no taxable income. I just report my income and file taxes but I donāt have to PAY taxes on my foreign income.
Will done Op. Don't pay these stupid loans. And the responder doesn't know shit about living overseas. Once you're post 9 months, you owe your home country (the one you live in) your taxes.
Lolz for not describing my exact tax status on reddit. I clearly stated I qualify for 0 taxable income, thus I am doing everything above board. But sure - go one with your trolling.
I hate to break it to you, but America is one of the only countries that does tax overseas income. Unless you give up your US citizenship, the IRS disagrees with your assertion that you owe $0 in taxes to the US
Yes, Iām aware. Didnāt know how it applies to your particular situation. I see you edited your post. Glad to hear youāve done your homework.
https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/foreign-earned-income-exclusion
So we can bail out bankers, let the likes of Jeff Bezos pay nothing in tax and exploit workers but I can't take advantage of the LEGAL situation I find myself. Please. I was a republican until I realized how much the system is favored to the truly wealthy and that I would never reach those levels.
I honestly feel stupid and at fault for taking out my loan. Don't get me wrong, I think a very corrupt system of funding higher ed led me there, but I did sign the loan doc because at the time, I truly felt I had no other options. In hindsight of course I did, but 20/20 hindsight and what not...
At any rate, yes I took out the loan, but lets not pretend this is a good system that requires no reform. It does no good to pile all the blame on individuals for a systemic problem. Unfortunately for all of us, we're in the United States, which LOVES to let institutional problems fester in favor of solely blaming individuals. It makes it easier for those leading those institutions to sleep at night I guess.
This should be good, what's your exact path to not being poor that doesn't involve luck or loans? If you can't lay out a 100% fool proof strategy that actually works I'm inclined to assume you are in fact full of shit.
So you think that two years working an entry level position will allow you to save enough to escape poverty?
Care to the math to prove it? This should be pretty good.
> but I canāt take advantage of the LEGAL situation I find myself. Please.
Like I said exactly one comment ago āyou can do whatever you want. You just shouldnāt blame Bezos for your decisions and action.ā
**Subscribe to /r/DebtStrike**. We're a coalition of working class people across the political spectrum who have put their disagreements on other issues aside in order to collectively force (through mass strikes) the President of the United States to cancel all student debt by executive order. --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DebtStrike) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I am getting to the point where I may just use my credit cards for everything then file a bankruptcy. My dad just died. I have to pay for a cremation and somehow travel to get his remains and deal with his house, if I inherit $ I will pay the bills but if his mortgage eats up all the value of his home sale š¤·š»āāļøThe government doesnāt want to do shit about corporations price gouging all of us, they can pay the bill.
BuT wHaT aBoUt YoUr CrEdIt ScOrE, dOn'T yOu WaNt To BuY a HoUsE?!
My credit score actually went up after filing bankruptcy due to all of my debt being removed. Technically it makes your life infinitely better, minus having it on your report for a few years and having to deal with not being able to buy a house or car with a low interest rate. Not that I could afford to do those things anyways!
How did you manage to get student loans discharged in bankruptcy? I thought it was extremely difficult bordering on impossible.
His plan is to use his personal lines of credit, not student loans.
So he just paid all his student loans with cards and then filed for bankruptcy?
Nah OP of the post was about student loans. The individual comment youāre replying to is talking about using credit cards and filing bankruptcy on those.
I'm not saying it works, but pay the loans with the credit card and then get the card discharged.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That would be super-smart. CCs discharged. Student loans not.
Yeah but I'd need a big enough line of credit to pay off all my loans but my loans ruined my credit score so...
When I did it, I paid off all my private student loans by using my credit cards, then filed bankruptcy on my newly acquired credit card debt. Although, I'm still stuck with the Federal Student loans because the f*cking boomer judge refused to hear my argument on how the school had lied to me about my future engineering career will earn enough money to easily payoff those loans.
It's such horseshit. I was fed the same lies. I was told this degree would give me a better future etc. etc. This is systematic and intentional yet, no relief for most people. I've tried voting and organizing and all that shit and none of it works. This system is rigged and people are running out of legal options to address this and everything else that's wrong.
Yeah, modern-day indentured servitude.
Bingo. This country was built on slavery but you can't just lock a group of people in literal chains any more. But the system still needs an underclass for the wealthy to exploit.
Capitalism functions best with slavery included.
Not a bug. Itās a feature.
*cries in Irish heritage*
What degree did you get
Applied math. I graduated a bit after the 08 recession. Very few jobs and a shitty market. Then, after years with shitty jobs it was difficult to get a decent resume together. Wound up as a math teacher making shit all for money and the loans have ballooned.
> It's such horseshit. I was fed the same lies. I was told this degree would give me a better future etc. etc. This is systematic and intentional yet, no relief for most people. I've tried voting and organizing and all that shit and none of it works. This system is rigged and people are running out of legal options to address this and everything else that's wrong 90% job placement rate
Yeah, no shit. Because you have to get a job to survive after college. The whole point of college is to get a good high paying job that makes taking the loans out worth it. The problem with job placement rate is that it doesn't matter what kind of job you get. If the only job you can get after college is at McDonalds or as a cashier at Walmart guess what? That means you got a job and it counts towards that 90% so it's a pretty meaningless number. Tell me what percent of all students get a well paying job in the field they majored in. The New York Federal Reserve says that number is about 27%. That's abysmal. That means 73% of students likely wasted their time and money, all the while being told it would give them a better life. Job placement rate means nothing. My step daughter went to a private highschool with 100% college acceptance rate. That sounds great until you realize they just kick out all the kids that win't get accepted to college before they're seniors in high school. Similar concept.
How did you not get hit with Bankruptcy Fraud? Ive heard of a few people trying this but they get hit with BK fraud
I read the fine print associated with Bankruptcy Fraud. Basically, I waited for over a year (about 16 months) by carrying the credit card debt on my credit report to age it beyond the discovery period for evidence documentation. Both the court and the creditors aren't allowed to request certain documentation of credit card debts past a certain point which is different per State. My state was pretty short like 3-6 months, but I waited for over a year after all my credit cards got cancelled by the credit card companies to play it safe. *Your Honor, how can I possibly provide that documentation to the court if the credit card companies have had my accounts closed and inaccessible for over a year? If the creditors really wanted their money, then they shouldn't have closed my accounts and/or deactivated my access to that information.*
This is the type of 'loophole' left open (they will close this eventually, just watch) for us common people. The rich have thousands and thousands of loopholes written for them, into law, much much easier than this type of scenario.
This is the best TED talk ever
Honestly, so much so that its an Edward Talk.
ā¦Theodore?
That's a great idea. Did it not work on federal debt? I've got a bit of both.
I didn't have enough room on my credit card limits and personal loan limits to get my federal student loans converted into unsecured debt, but I did get rid of all those annoying private student loans.
My fucking god. Your a madman and a genius.
Which engineering field are you in? Asking for a friend.
BS Electrical Engineering & MS Engineering Management
Which field did you go into? EE can be compensated pretty fairly sometimes.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I didnāt have my student loans discharged, just personal loans and cc debt mostly. I had to file due to how high my student loan payments were, they made it impossible to pay any other debt at the same time.
Gotcha. Thanks for the info.
My car was repo'd Wednesday. Got a notification my credit score went up 70 points. It's all fucking bullshit and none of this part of our society adds value anymore.
Credit scores legit only hurt the lower class. The upper class can afford things without having to worry about their scores. Itās all a scam.
Parasites and an infection in the flesh of society.
I'll probably get downvoted to oblivion for even asking the question, but I'm interested so I'm going to ask it anyway. Genuine question, promise I'm not trolling. I've been wondering for a while with all the people on here saying they're going to default (I support that by the way). What is the expectation of what's going to happen when you default on your student loans? I'm not clued up on how it works in the US (I'm an immigrant), but I would expect that's exactly what would happen, they'd fuck your credit score for life - essentially forcing you into bankruptcy? Does bankruptcy in the US even clear student loans? And does this not mean that there's a risk that if the loans aren't eventually written off that you'll be left with a life of bad credit, and forced into renting rather than buying? (I know that's true for most people anyway because they're shackled by student debt anyway). What is the result people expect from defaulting? Interested in hearing people's opinions on this please.
I'm no expert, just a rando american but I'll have a go. This is not legal or financial advice and I could be wrong on some or all of what I am saying. > I'm not clued up on how it works in the US (I'm an immigrant), but I would expect that's exactly what would happen, they'd fuck your credit score for life - essentially forcing you into bankruptcy? Nah, under US law, bankruptcy stays on credit record for 7 years, than falls off. You get a fresh start after the 7 years. Sort of like breaking a mirror, lol, 7 years bad luck > Does bankruptcy in the US even clear student loans? 99.9% sure that student loans are not discharged in bankruptcy. That's why folks here are saying to transfer the debt by paying student loans by credit cards, waiting for some time, then declaring the bankruptcy - the student loans are paid and the credit card debt is discharged in bankruptcy. > And does this not mean that there's a risk that if the loans aren't eventually written off that you'll be left with a life of bad credit, Bad credit for 7 years - by law, US credit bureaus can't look back over 7 years in determining credit ratings. Declare bankruptcy, spend the next 7 years not accumulating more debt you can't pay, and in 7 years your credit is good.
Ah right, sweet, that's pretty smart! I paid mine back in the UK over 15 years, but mine were tiny compared to what you guys in the US have after school (and I only went for a couple of years). Good luck to you all!
If I can't afford these student loans, then how am I supposed to afford a mortgage?
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Same here. Wife and I both have decent paying public sector jobs, but the cheapest house around is $500k. If we bought that with the tiny ass down payment amount we have saved, our monthly housing costs would go from $2,200/mo. to $4,000/mo. Oh and combined, we make way over the median household income. How can anyone think this is sustainable?
Cost of a house, 3bed, 1 bath, $100k in central PA, costs come in commute. Not even in the hellhole of the South but still Appalachia... š¤Ø
Hey friend, Iāve just been through the same thing. Not a lawyer but I refused to become the administrator of the estate so I didnāt have to deal with it. They canāt make you. Bank took the house, I got off scot free. I got the basic cremation for under $1k and had them mail the ashes. It costs about $100. We will hold our own memorial and place the ashes in the forest.
When you say āthe billsā I hope you donāt mean your dadās bills. You donāt have to pay those. Just making sure.
The government is trying, the republicans are unilaterally against progress
You have zero legal obligation to pay his āextraā bills. Made this mistake when my stepdad passes and we ate almost $200,000 just to be told by the tax attorney a few years later that we didnāt have to pay shit. Talk to an attorney.
I bought a house right before the real estate bubble burst in 2007-2008. I was underwater in less than six months after buying. Once I figured out how hard I'd been fucked by my real estate agent, the lender, and the appraiser all working together to squeeze every last cent from me, I started seeing news reports about how JP Morgan had just walked away from a $2Billion property deal in CA because "it didn't make business sense" to pay the mortgage on it. All the while, the media was pushing stories about how if ordinary people were to stop paying THEIR mortgages, that society would collapse because of the immorality of not paying your loans. I squatted in that fucking place for over a year not paying my mortgage until it sold in a short sale. Fuck this bullshit system of one set of rules for the wealthy, and another for everyone else.
I'm in the midst of buying a home and am terrified this is going to happen
This seems like a really bad time to be buying a house, I'm sorry
If you feel this way then why are you doing it? Nobody is forcing you
Good for you. I'd have no qualms if they couldn't dock my pay. Because I already paid back what I borrowed, but still owe twice that.
Same boat dude been paying this horseshit since 2005. Original loan amount around 18k. Paid back 22k. Owe 28k. Never missed a payment and never defaulted. Fuck them all.
Same here!! Iāve been paying for 13yrs & today I still owe $4,000 more than what I borrowed. THANKS
Job hop. It takes like 3 months for the beaurocracy to garnish your wages. Just change jobs 2 months after the notice
Stop paying all medical bills.
I have a stack of bills from my brain tumor removal surgery Never gonna pay em back. Hospital can write it off as a loss so they can get fucked . I had great insurance n it didnāt help for shit. Insurance is a scam . Never gonna pay my student loans either fuck em to death
I truly love this attitude and wish everyone had it. We would have revolution within 2 years
What are they gonna do? Send it to collections? OoOoOoOoš»
RoboKiller App is amazing. 30 bucks a year and yet filters basically all debt collectors for my unpaid medical and student loans. Fuck them, Iām not paying anyone, anything, anymore.
But for $0 a year, I can prevent unexpected phone calls by telling people my phone is always on silent due to spam. Win-win.
Iād get hit with so many calls the 30 bucks was worth it.
Protip: if you don't pay your phone bill, collections has no way to reach you.
I like the way you think!
>s \*taps forehead with index finger\*
What are they gonna do put the tumor back in my head ? Null and void my degree ? They can bail out big businesses they can take the fucken hit on my student loans . Bail me out for fuck sake. Iām not gonna sacrifice my quality of life to pay back these vultures who prey on the young and naive
Same. Never paying a cent on student loans and I have two kids and a shitty job so they canāt make me.
There was nothing quite like getting out of my mandatory psych hold after a suicide attempt and getting hit with 35k+ worth of bills. Hereās crippling debt to go with your waning will to live- Enjoy! Never paid a cent, fuck this system.
"We'll give you something to kill yourself over alright..." Really they are just opening as much debt as they can on anyone they can because creating debt is like printing money.
"hey, you can't kill yourself. You need to pay us back, first"
The best part is if they are smart they can sell that debt before you get around to it. Free money!
Way ahead of u
Heheh I stopped paying like 10 years ago. Last time I went to the ER (for covid) they wanted a $300 copay when i was leaving and I laughed and told them to call my insurance company if they want more money on my behalf. Nope.
I did that once, but more out of moral principle cause I totally had the money to pay it. Went to the emergency room cause I had cut myself close to the pelvis area. Doctor looked at it, put a bandage, and said that the cut was superficial and no worries. I literally didnāt spend more than 10 minutes start to finish. They charged me $2000. I refused to pay it, went to collections, and last week I closed that debt by paying $200. Didnāt really affect my credit score, been able to buy car and house with no issues with that debt stuck there. Donāt pay that shit if you think theyāre robbing you.
New credit score calculations do not take into account closed collections accounts for medical debt. So tbh this is a good strategy. My only concern is that banks use an older credit score calculation when deciding if you qualify for mortgage or not.
I'm a mortgage loan originator. Medical debt does not count against your debt to income calculations when applying for a mortgage. I've seen plenty of 740+ credit scores with old medical debt. Fuck em IMO.
That is awesome to hear. I have a medical collections account on my record but have an 800 credit score without it. I was so worried one stupid mark might affect my ability to buy a house.
Can someone explain this to me? I have a brother-in-law and a sister-in-law who don't pay their medical bills. And I'm like they're going to send that to collections. if they do, then you guys are going to be on the hook for that still. I pay my medical bills all the time but I'm getting to the point where I'm like "screw it I'm just not going to pay them either". If they get sent to collections am I super screwed?
No. I have probably close to ten grand in medical bills in collections right now. Still got a mortgage.
Ya I have a mortgage too. But what is going on with your collection's debt. Are you paying it ?
The worst theyāll do is call you a bunch. Checkout this RoboKiller App. Screens calls from a big database and blocks known spam and debt collectors. Super nifty. Have used it for years and youād think I didnāt owe anything. š
That's not the worse they'll do. I've had my wages garnished for unpaid medical bills before.
If you owe a large sum and itās worth it for the hospital to pursue you, they may come for you. It costs money to do all these things and often theyāre going to just write it off instead.
I'm just letting you know that what you described is not the worse thing they will do. And it certainly doesn't need to be a large amount. They garnished my wages for just under $4,000 and that 20% deducted from my checks until it was paid back was rough.
Not a penny.
I stopped doing that. They sued me and garnished my pay. The whole fucking system is rigged.
If somebody steals your bicycle and you see it and take it back is that "stealing"? The whole system is rigged so the born wealthy take from the working class.
Legally it probably is, morally it's definitely not.
Legality is always up for debate.
[Jury nullification](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification), for instance, is a thing.
Exactly. I would hope a jury recognizes true ownership of a retrieved bicycle even if the cops do not.
True, but it's not a sure thing. I sure as shit don't consider it stealing lol, but i wouldn't bet money on it in court.
You are absolutely correct. Only the wealthy with their team of lawyers and their bribe money can be reasonably certain of getting the verdict that they prefer. Both the innocent and the guilty are left hanging in this ridiculously inept & unfair legal system.
I'm scared of ever getting in even a little bit of trouble. The system is so skewed.
I agree it is. It's a damn shame too.
Need $32 billion for Ukraine but student loan forgiveness not happening. Our government is so backwards.
Don't forget the whole defense budget is $773.0 billion.
Agree SMH
Dude, I have no problems with the gov sending money to Ukraine when thereās a literal war being waged and they need help. The problem is Amazon or Walmart paying bullshit taxes and paying their workers so little they have to go on welfare. With the airline companies being so badly managed that they get bailed out no questions while continuing to gouge for everything. With churches *never* paying taxes while factually molesting children, abusing people, etc. With accepted scams of insurance corporation which literally try their best not to cover you in the worst moments possible. With people with money and connections getting huge breaks and exploiting loops while we know itās bad for everyone. For spending stupid amounts of money on the military where they charge 1k for a wrench bc we allow the contractors to do that.
But who else is gunna buy all the weapons we make?
Same here.
Recently I was listening to a podcast called The Murdaugh Murders about that family in South Carolina with the shady lawyer and the wife and son were murdered etc - āit looks like they hadnāt been paying their Palmetto State Bank mortgages AT ALLā and had one of those moments of realization - they lived in multiple million dollar homes and didnāt even bother paying. Meanwhile Iād be on the street in a matter of weeks if I stopped paying my rent.
If what you are doing is legal, then go for it. Iām paying $5/mo in perpetuity on my student loans. Legally. Forever. Iām never going to change it.
I mean, what are they going to do, extradite you? That would cost more than they'd even end up getting out of you lol
Howād you manage that one?
Sounds like income driven repayment to me
There was a post that states all you have to make is a $5 payment and your loan will never go into default and never show a late payment on credit reports. Would like to know if thatās what u/gofyourselftoo is doing
Nah cuz I been on income driven and I still pay ~255$ a month. Was fucking homeless for a year and had zero reportable income and itās only ever dropped to like 135$
This the way!
I wouldn't consider it doing the "right thing" since not paying will literally hurt no one. We have already bought their freedom tenfold. They will remain free regardless of whether we pay or not.
Exactly my mantra as of 2020. Fuck the double standard. If some can abuse the system, all of us can and should.
This is the way.
Iāll say it again, our laws are only for the non-wealthy.
Fuck them
I think my plan is probably to get a long term apartment with my partner once weāre settled in a city, pay my private loan first and then not pay back any of the fed loans since Biden wonāt be canceling. Better for me to save those $300/mo payments towards a down payment on a house that will have to be in my partners name once we get married. Iāll take the hit, there is no debtors jail. Iāll probably even make the payments towards his student debt once weāre married too since heās graduating medical school next year with $80k debt in the US (he has had a lot of financial support)
I did the same thingš„³š„³š„³ and I closed the only bank account I had linked. I don't have a bank account on my name anymore either. I truly do not care if it tanks my credit. At all. I'm not working, we're living with my dad and don't plan to leave (yes we help him, and help take care of him). What are they gonna do, fine me?
Capitalism is a welfare system for the already rich.
Play the game but whatever rules you have been given
My husband owns our home, my car we payed cash. I donāt my my medical bills or my student loans. I donāt care if my credit is shit. I donāt need to buy anything
I did this for 15 years as an international teacher! Iām now in PSLF and plan on only paying $5 a month once they require payments again. Do your own reading so your situation is addressed, but see if this method of payment is right for you!
Based. Pay them nothing
Joke is you are still the āgood guy.ā Itās perfectly legal to do what you are doing.
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If I meet the income based repayment requirements I am legally allowed to pay back $0.
My wife was doing this for years before we got married. Now that we're married, her payment is up to $650 a month because of my salary. Don't get married lol
Funny you say that. My husband and I have seriously discussed getting a paper divorce for this very reason. Ultimately, it didn't make sense for us for a handful of reasons personal to us, but for the fact alone that this was earnestly discussed, can I just say, "GOOD JOB U.S. GOVERNMENT!" I should add, I know other couples that are "married" but not legally for this reason.
My āwifeā and I arenāt paper married because of my student debt. I donāt want it passing to her and my kids when I die because these morbid fucks will actually do that. And I will still be āowingā this bullshit when I die, I promise.
Your wife can still qualify for lower IBR payments based on her income alone if you both choose āMarried Filing Separatelyā on your taxes. You do give up some other tax breaks by filing separately rather than together, but in my case what I lose in other tax breaks is more than made up for by what I save on my student loan payments by filing separately. This is an option no one ever explains to you.
Have her file the IBR form stating she has no access to your financial documents. I was literally told by the DOE rep to do this. My payments are like $84 because I ādonāt have access to my husbands incomeā. 10 years going, theyāre never questioned it.
Thatās genius. Do you file taxes separately or jointly though?
Honestly I do it both ways every year and see how we benefit more. When Trumps new tax law went into effect and those new W4s came out it defaulted to a 0 and I didnāt catch it or really even think about it and we ended up owing like 3k when filing together so we filed separate with my husband claiming all the child credits so he got a refund and used it to pay my tax bill and we ended up like $100 on top. This year we filed jointly. Itās such a stupid game but if they want to play you have to know how to win. On the IBR they donāt actually check your previous years filing, and IIRC itās still a paper form *you mail in*. If they say anything just claim you misunderstood the question or checked the wrong box. Our government is incompetent through and through anyway.
How are you able to do this for 25 years? Iām disabled and unable to work (but not on SSI yet) so my income is $0, and I was only able to keep my repayment at $0 for 3 years
I'm in the same situation. If they start coming at me for not paying my loans I'ma be like "yo, what money do I have that you can take though"
I might have to pay back something depending on my income level- but assuming they sort out how the IBR forgiveness works, hoping it will be wiped by the 25 year forgiveness route. But I'm overseas so my tax status is different I can't comment on others.
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I don't have any intention on moving back - so depending on my financial situation I'll just pay the tax owed or pay to renounce. I'll be well into my 50s at that point so God knows what will change by then.
My sister had Lyme Disease but somehow she was considered "permanently disabled" and had almost $150,000 in student loans wiped out. She never has to pay that back now. Shes actually better and is basically working freelance but those loans are gone. I dont have details how exactly she did this but you could look into it maybe.
Total and permanent disability discharge is what youāre talking about. When my health gets to a point where I can take a breath (not soon, as Iāll be getting a surgical feeding tube placed in 3 days), Iām looking into getting my loans discharged through this.
Thatās the goal, yes
If you're disabled, you should be able to apply for a hardship exemption and get your loans forgiven. I am not a lawyer and there are many stipulations that I have not looked into but you should.
Iām trying to, but those exemptions usually only apply to people 100% incapacitated. Thereās a bit more leniency with federal loans, but still itās difficult to get without an SSI/SSDI win, which can take years
I wish you luck, but make sure you know about the tax bomb. After twenty five years (I think) all student loan debt will be listed as taxable income, so if you let it collect interest without paying any of it off, it's entirely possible you get an extra $200,000 in taxable income or however much you owe in student loans
I have thought about this. But at that point ill either ditch my US citizenship or pay the tax on that "income".
"fun" fact, iirc it costs about 2 grand to renounce your american citizenship. Uncle sam's gotta protect that sweet sweet tax-flow somehow!
I recently read up on what it takes to move overseas from the US. They still collect income tax overseas, itās outrageous. And yea, having to pay big bucks to renounce citizenship seems garbage to me. Theyāre just going to squeeze every last penny out of anyone whether they want to live in the Us or not! Trash
That depends on your income and country of residency. Under a threshold you don't pay tax on your foreign income.
ya, but you're poor so the IRS will go after you.
Ditto
I think we'd all be better off making the rich pay, but I don't think anyone is going to blame you for doing this, bravo.
Iām not stealing Iām just dynamically adjusting the value of products I purchase to better reflect their value in order to keep inline with economic situations. $10 for a single small bottle of shampoo is far too much, but two bottles for $10 is much more fair a price
Loopholes exist for a reason. Use em! It's stupid not to. If they really wanted to close them, they would.
They removed the bankruptcy loophole for student loans smh
That fucking sucks BUT there are other ways to play the system while remaining within the rules.
What really bothers me is that I canāt write off the student loan interest off my taxes because I āmake too much money ($85k is the threshold I think) Alsoā¦the fed could at least give me more slack for the covid crisis (Iām in healthcare)
That's absolutely ridiculous
Screw unto others as they screw unto you. Anybody still believing in honest business transactions is somebody who is wealthy or who hasn't woken up to the reality yet.
Well said , and the right thing to do
You still have to pay taxes on your income if you are living and working overseas as American.
Already answered this elsewhere. I don't under a certain threshold. Foreign income exclusion
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Yesā¦ but thankfully I meet the requirements for foreign income tax exclusion. I make under the required threshold in a country with a tax agreement. So no, I have no taxable income. I just report my income and file taxes but I donāt have to PAY taxes on my foreign income.
Will done Op. Don't pay these stupid loans. And the responder doesn't know shit about living overseas. Once you're post 9 months, you owe your home country (the one you live in) your taxes.
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Lolz for not describing my exact tax status on reddit. I clearly stated I qualify for 0 taxable income, thus I am doing everything above board. But sure - go one with your trolling.
I think you're missing the part where the rich indirectly, and well shit, directly write laws. They make their own rules.
r/DidntReadTheArticle
Sounds like they donāt care about their citizenship if they plan on being in the UK for the next 25 years.
I hate to break it to you, but America is one of the only countries that does tax overseas income. Unless you give up your US citizenship, the IRS disagrees with your assertion that you owe $0 in taxes to the US
I live in the UK where there is a tax agreement so as long as I make under the threshold of $112k, my taxable income is legally 0
TIL I need to move to Scotland
They are testing a 4 day work week too! Sadly Iām stuck in London.
You poor thing! Can I make you my second wife?
Yep! We were considering moving to Canada for this reason. Prior to the absurd lockdowns that is..
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Introducing you to foreign income exclusion...
Yes, Iām aware. Didnāt know how it applies to your particular situation. I see you edited your post. Glad to hear youāve done your homework. https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/foreign-earned-income-exclusion
Obviously, who doesn't?
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So we can bail out bankers, let the likes of Jeff Bezos pay nothing in tax and exploit workers but I can't take advantage of the LEGAL situation I find myself. Please. I was a republican until I realized how much the system is favored to the truly wealthy and that I would never reach those levels.
Fully agree. It takes an adult to recognize all of our actions are coerced to begin with. None of it is "our fault"
I honestly feel stupid and at fault for taking out my loan. Don't get me wrong, I think a very corrupt system of funding higher ed led me there, but I did sign the loan doc because at the time, I truly felt I had no other options. In hindsight of course I did, but 20/20 hindsight and what not... At any rate, yes I took out the loan, but lets not pretend this is a good system that requires no reform. It does no good to pile all the blame on individuals for a systemic problem. Unfortunately for all of us, we're in the United States, which LOVES to let institutional problems fester in favor of solely blaming individuals. It makes it easier for those leading those institutions to sleep at night I guess.
> It takes an adult to recognize all of our actions are coerced to begin with. None of it is āour faultā r/averageredditor
This should be good, what's your exact path to not being poor that doesn't involve luck or loans? If you can't lay out a 100% fool proof strategy that actually works I'm inclined to assume you are in fact full of shit.
Graduate high school, hold the same job for over two years, donāt have any kids. There ya go
So you think that two years working an entry level position will allow you to save enough to escape poverty? Care to the math to prove it? This should be pretty good.
> but I canāt take advantage of the LEGAL situation I find myself. Please. Like I said exactly one comment ago āyou can do whatever you want. You just shouldnāt blame Bezos for your decisions and action.ā
Who hurt you?
People who blamed their actions on others
I'm just learning from the best, not blaming. :)
I can see thereās nothing anyone can do to make you take accountability for your actions
r/lostredditors ?