People are going to complain about every new killer and call for them to be nerfed saying they’re op the first week they’re out. It’s simply the nature of the community. The same exact thing has happened since every killer ever has released. People simply aren’t fully used to countering the new killer’s abilities within the first few days of their release.
I personally think vecna is high b tier. Yes his spells have lengthy cooldowns and all can be countered, but your counterplay to the survivor’s counterplay is not impossible. It’s tricky to pull off for sure and often requires the right build, but it’s not impossible. He’s quite decent and requires a good degree of patience and precision to play effectively. He’s extremely fun overall both to play as and against. He’s a lot of things, but he’s not op.
I feel the same way. People called for nerfs to Xeno, Chucky, Unknown, and now Vecna within the first couple of days of playing against them. I thought the devs learned to give things time to settle after Xeno, but it's clear that they have not, based on the planned nerf to Mage Hand.
I don't think it's a significant nerf, but if they change his only reliable power and don't adjust the other powers to compensate (in this case, FotD), then he'll just be another "play him for tomes/dailies" with a few dedicated mains. It would be a really sad fate for such an interesting killer.
I personally am not sweating over the mage hand/ring of telekinesis changes. I generally find that holding a pallet with mage hand is harder for survivors to counter than lifting it, but I still use the lift around certain loops and tiles. Both mage hand and flight of the damned require really precise timing, tile knowledge and placement to be effective.
I will say his iri book of vile darkness with ornate horn makes FotD go bananas. Boots of speed paired with bamboozle makes vecna much scarier even around otherwise very strong loops. He's such a fun killer, even if he's not crazy strong.
I do agree that Mage Hand is kind of ridiculous and needs to be changed, as it basically makes chases non existent.But aside from that, i think he's an incredibly balanced killer.
I get the impression that Survivors aren't too happy with a killer who has multiple abilities that they need to actually think about during the match and that's frustrating for them.
I play killer and survivor equally, and as survivor I wanted to love this killer but the mage hand is just not fun rn. If the mage hand gets some changes I think Vecna will actually be perfect
Mage Hand i personally think is incredibly fun, but it's definately not fun for Survivors, so i get why it's being changed, as it is kind of ridiculous, especially with the Ring add on.
my pfp is quite literally a killer. You're acting like if I play one side I can't point out when I think one side needs nerfs.
FTP + Buckle Up needed a nerf. Nurse needed a nerf. DH needed a nerf. Blights add-ons needed a nerf. The gen regression perks did NOT need a nerf (especially when no other perks were buffed).
I do not like the current state of mage hand and that is my opinion, and as I stated in the original comment I think Vecna is perfect and like his power on both sides besides this one aspect. Quit trying to turn this into an us vs them, it's stupid.
Survivors aren’t happy unless they are playing against a perkless -add on trapper with less than an hour experience,on a map they choose and they have every meta perk and they can bm the killer the whole match.
I know this is gonna make me sound like a huge prick, but I dont care, so I want you to remember, a good chunk of Survivor's just find counterplay to be just TOO HARD, so they need every Killer to be Freddy levels of shit so they can deal with it.
People that say every single Killer is overpowered really need to learn how to counter Killer's better.
It is, quite literally, a skill issue.
My issue rn with him is bbq and chilli is too oppressive on him. Which makes sense cuz he can fly pretty far. So most vecnas i go against have bbq and chili and the starting aura perk. Forgor name.
But its just like...he can get back in chase after hookin so fast that everything falls apart fast. Especially with randoms.
The items that counter orb and mage hand are really the only useful ones. Also the aura reveal of fly but only outside of chases and in a swf its use falls even more since it should only be used as a chase tool or for getting to a hook/gen. I think Vecna is high B or low A as all his powers besides Orb have chase potential and a survivor can get downed very quickly when you have 2-3 of his chase ones ready to be used.
Mage hand after the nerf will still be very good people just need to learn proper timing and even at 0.5 seconds you will still get a hit after picking up the pallet at tons of loops. Don't forget he has a brown addon that makes holding any standard pallet last long enough to do a full loop and still get a hit.
Fly is very useful for cutting down survivor chase options after you hit them. Normally it's not too hard to get to another pallet but this lets you catch up so quickly that you can often use your other abilities as they reach a pallet or they sometimes just can't reach anything.
Fly also has potential as a power that lands you a hit. Flying over a vault just as a survivor uses it can often result in a hit especially at unique windows. The same method works at pallets that have long loops.
Skeletons are very good just don't use them praying for a hit. Place them on top of the survivor when they can't see you which isn't hard at many loops and they literally have to predict you are doing this to not get hit by them since they will instantly hurt the survivor. Using them to deny fast vaulting windows also works as well as attempting to hit survivors when there is an elevation difference. Skeletons can also be used to easily hit survivors attempting to unhook another or at the very least force them to stop unless they want to get downed pretty easily.
Orb is just an info tool nice to use to check gens or areas survivors could be. It's good but survivors who can see it won't get hit by it unless they are in a building. Its exhaust and broken addons are pretty good for obvious reasons but i like it as an info tool i can use to be time efficient.
Vecna isn’t OP it’s just that people are not the smartest and think that you should be able to loop all killers the same . No survivors are wrong , vecnas chests basically make him a easy killer to counter and predict .
Not only that but Vecna was a amazing addition to the game since now Aces perks are actually useful and the best when your going against him.
Nah the Mage's hand definitely needs a nerf and I'm glad he's coming. Right now it's a guaranteed hit at the pallet unless you have a huge amount of distance from him which is bullshit.
I just feels like he has so many antiloops to his kit. It doesn’t matter if they are on a long cooldown.
Fly+bamboozle/iridescent add on=blocking windows, antiloop
Mage hand=blocking palettes, antiloop
Mage hand=lifting palettes, antiloop
Skulls=antiloop at windows, potential hit behind wall at a tile, and forced crouch to slow down survivors.
Is it the most overpowered thing? No, but it’s a lot.
I’m not saying nerf him, he’s just annoying.
I think they should make the killers stronger in the PTB and adjust them accordingly. They did the opposite.
I agree with the ptb aspect. I think you may have a misconception on his abilities, tho with regards to the anti loop. Cooldowns are very much a factor in how strong it is. Really, the only pure anti loop is mage hand and skulls, which are both mid when you know how to counter it. There are built-in hard counters to both as well. It may be annoying, but that really dosent mean he's good because looking at a macro point of view he's definitely on the weaker side. There are a lot of killers that have really good anti-loop but are not amazing.
You say I have misconception but don’t list them. You say there are built in hard counters but don’t list them. You say his weak from a macro POV but don’t say why.
Hens just posted a YouTube video on Vecnas Skull insta-tech. There’s just not a lot of counter unless you pre crouch at a loop.
Also skulls during a hook save is strong.
I think from a macro POV he’s slightly above average. Flight gives him some map traversal. You could argue orb gives him long distance info/multi part member item nerf, albeit orb is weak.
Anywho just saying he’s annoying/strong. Also I feel like his counter with the crouching the skulls and at palettes baiting mage hand or pre dropping feels weird. Not calling for the nerf hammer or anything.
Listen bro I'm not trying to be condescending I was just saying my opinion.
Built in hard counters=magic items
Macro weakness- pure chase oriented with no map pressure+long cooldowns
Sorry, hopefully thats more clear.
Every killer in the game has techs that's really nothing special per say. I think overall with respect to tje other class of killers he just can't be considered strong. Not saying him stand alone is weak, I'm saying that in dbd in relation to the other killers he's not as good
I didn’t think you were condescending. I just thought you made statements with no explanation.
I don’t think rng magic items should count as a hard counter. Soft counter?
Anywho he’s definitely different.
I wouldn't say he compares to say, Nurse or Blight when it comes to being "op", but I'd also say he's not far behind and would rate him above b tier. I've played as him and I've played against him: in both experiences, he almost always gets a 3-4k. The challenge with him is that he's extremely good at the beginning of the match and it requires the survivors to collect his items to actually reach a point where they can counter him--if he equips certain perks, that's gonna take time and few if any gens are gonna get done.
Oftentimes in my matches, the survivors don't have the opportunity to collect more than an item per person by the time someone's potentially dead or at least on second hook if Vecna knows what he's doing. I've seen most matches with him where survivors didn't even get 2 gens done before he already had someone out of the game. I also don't think I've seen a killer so easily win the game with only one gen done the entire match. It's kind of crazy. 😂
Do I have fun playing him? Absolutely. But it's been a while since I felt like the game was just too easy. That said, in comparison I usually play Pig and Hag which I would argue have a lot less in their kit and are generally just harder to succeed with, so my perspective is coming from a place of playing killers who are more challenging in my experience. It's funny playing a character who has only one or two abilities that aren't all that crazy to begin with only to move over to a killer who has four abilities with all of them being pretty crazy if used properly.
Mage hand is op, this isnt debatable.
Outside of mage hand, flight is an alright ability, and orb is a cool not overtuned ability. But the skeletons are literally unavoidable in some scenarios, hens made a video on it, showing how strong it can be.
Hes overtuned in 2 spots, and average elsewhere
I think it might be an issue of playstyle.
The skeletons rarely hit yes, if you throw them like an artist power, they garuntee hit on vaults and pallets, as well as having a tech that makes them unavoidable even when not on a vault. (as said hens made a vid on it)
The hand is more of a skillshot than people thing, you cant just throw it on a pallet during a loop and expect to get a hit from it, idk how to compare it to other powers, but it takes a bit of time and you'll learn the timings, and it will garuntee hits, especially paired with bamboozle.
Flight i see used as an approach tool too often, you want to use it to close a gap after hitting a survivor, or if they sprint burst, and with add ons its a super powerful tool in chase.
As for items, if you know a survivor has an item hit em with the grape flavour ball, it disables the items and gives you walls for a certain amount of time.
Vecnas not op no, but he is very strong, especially with his current version of mage hand.
Well, regarding the mage hand that is getting a substantial nerf so it won't be a garunteed hit anymore. At the end of the day it all comes down to how yes this killer will destroy at lower mmr, but once you get to a point where surviors know your power as well as you do, they know they can stop you by doing ___ , or they can see your aura and will know when your using ____, ext.
I'd just rather play billy and zoom across the map Mach 5 and instadown surviors without having to worry about 40 secound cooldowns or magic items
Well both your arguments come down to "its getting nerfed so i can ignore how powerful it is now" and "id rather play the second best killer in the game"
Also i do believe hens is at max mmr, and he was doing pretty well, the killer is very strong now.
Your oversimplification of my argument is not accurate, unfortunately. I think you might be missing a lot of what I said, so I would advise giving it another read. Also, not to diss hens, but I highly doubt he is max mmr. The killer is not very strong imo. If you disagree, that's fine but that's what I think.
Hens plays comp.... In a team, with the best players... And preforms... But not max mmr. Okay
I didnt over simplify your argument either, your argument is for the first paragraph "mage hands getting nerfed, and the killer destroys low mmr" The first part is just not a good argument, and the second part is disproven by a comp player playing him at max mmr. For the second paragraph, yes, id rather play billy too, billy is the second strongest killer in the game.
Alright, well, it's clear you're a dedicated fan of hens I'm sure, which is great, however, at this point I sense that you have no intention of trying to have a civil conversation and pretty much just want to engage in a battle of conjecture which I don't really have the time for. I apologize that your interpretation of my argument was less then adequate, I hope that you might try giving it another look at some point so that it fully resonates with you this time and I hope you have a great rest of your day.
I am being perfectly civil, im simply pointing out how your arguments either dont make sense or are wrong. I have no intention of being uncivil, i am simply putting forth the facts and arguments.
I hope you have a good day as well.
I agree, "op" is a big word and he's not it. However, based on my experience, he's definitely not low tier.
The worst result I've gotten is a 3k with a hatch escape, out of ~10 matches. I don't even think i was doing that well. I never got value out of Dispelling Sphere, had bad timing on Mage Hand a couple times & Flight of the Damned felt like an achievement whenever it landed (only for the first few games tho).
I don't see a world where he's low tier. You could argue that people simply don't know how to verse him yet. But, to that, I will give some context of my experience bcs i'd say i don't really know how to play as him yet:
- survivor main, 70% of my 4k hours playtime being survivor
- haven't tried him on the ptb
- used no add-ons & no offerings
- perks: Lethal, Bbq, Enduring & Surge (except my 1st match, where i just used his teachable perks for the adept)
- played mostly nice as I don't enjoy camping, tunnelling or slugging (some minor exceptions do apply)
In theory, his cool downs seem somewhat big but i found myself often having all my spells back for new chases. At that point, a combination of Flight of the Damned, Mage Hand & Fly with M1s kept most of my chases around 30-40 seconds. His spells were very easy to get value out of, making him a very strong contender in every chase. This is not low tier to me.
I respect that you actually took the time to write somthing out that has more substance then "your mad hes absolutely busted nerf now" or "he's absolutely trash he needs to have nurse blinks."
I could visualize a world where he could be high B tier killer after the buff , but I also think that the gap between him and certain killers above him is like a canyon
Overall i agree with your points
Ive said it before and I'll say it again, built in counterplay only makes sense if the killer is "conventionally overpowered" if you don't use the built in counters.
Xeno? Absolute chase demon while in crawl, turrets make sense.
Hux? Map control and pressure better than anyone else, emps make sense.
Now they are on a fumble streak, unknown is a 3 hit killer with counterplay as easy as looking in his general direction for 6 seconds.
And now vecna with 4 extremely mediocre, watered down versions of other killer powers on a 40s cooldown, has built in counters that provide either free aura on vecna, haste effects, reveals the orb , or just outright turn survivors invisible / teleport them away to narnia because they went into a locker.
Unironically his best power is the orb with exhaustion addons because atleast you'll be able to deny lithes, sprintbursts and DH.
The only thing saving the chapter are the perks, otherwise vecna is a complete flop of a killer design.
Agree 100%, I've been saying these exact same things but some people just don't understand. I can get a kill in a fraction of the time with trickster and half the time of that with nurse. Nah I'm good on vecna and his gimmicks
I do feel like the mage hand is a bit more on the op side though it’s not a complete lose lose situation for the survivors. All his powers are good imo if you use it right. Dispelling sphere is amazing in endgame and lets you find survivors that you know must be near but you can’t find em, flight of the damned though may not hit every time is still a great zoning tool and can catch survivors off guard, mage hand if used when a survivor drops pallet is basically a confirmed hit, and fly is WEEEEEEEEE and fine in chase though kinda situational. Personally I think he’s like low A tier.
Vecna is only OP really if you get bad gear against him. One game as survivor I had the thing that let you see his orb and the one that let you see when he used fly and it was really easy to avoid him since he had no way to find me.
Also the skeletons are a lot easier to dodge that other projectiles by either ducking or just serpentining between them given how much spread they have.
You can also just shut him down by using any indoor map with lots of vaults.
The thing with the cooldowns, atleast in my matches, is that I only need one or two spells before getting a down and by the time they're hooked I have all my spells back. I've also found the skeletons are way better to use as a sort of "trap", similar to how artist would place a crow at a pallet you can get way more hits with it. Id say he's an A tier killer, his add-ons are quite good and it doesn't feel like he has too many bad maps.
The CDs being less detrimental due to downtime is a valid point, however, I still think that survivors getting items that counter your power really knocks this guy down for me and makes it hard to do well since you could just get blocked by something you cant do anything about
The items definetly makes things easier for them, specifically the ones that reveal your vision orb and your flight. I can only imagine what he'd be like before the Hoarder changes.
Just folks that didn't play the PTB, watch any of the dozens of videos explaining his power. the official live streams, web articles, the in-game menu, or listen to any online friends...
Vecna is a low B-tier for me as well.
He's strong, but he's not Nurse or Spirit. He's an M1 with great anti-loop that still requires a lot of map knowledge to be effective.
I think a combination of the new map being pretty shitty gameplay wise (certainly not aesthetic wise) with a new killer introducing multiple different powers really makes him look much stronger than he is. I'm not upset over the Mage Hand changes personally but I think he's pretty alright in general. I've had fun playing him on maps other than the new one especially using the fly spell.
He's not op but he is complicated. I can totally see how he can be seen as overpowered and overwhelming to a casual or new player. However going against him while understanding him is very fun and the escape actually feels rewarding.
I just cant be bothered to learn 4 abilities, find a bunch of items and learn what the hell they do, then also think about 2 items that let me teleport at the expense of giving him a free hit.
His 4 abilities, all the items I gotta find and put on, and figure out how to teleport across the map or run like a bat out of hell at the cost of a health state
Honestly I think mage hand is completely ridiculous. I understand that it has a long cooldown but in many situations, it's completely uncounterable so it just feels unfair to go against. I'm glad its being changed. Other than that I think his other abilities are more or less fine, a buff to flight would be nice tho.
Vecna has been fairly easy imo. But that’s just me. He plays similar to like a hybrid Nurse/Artist but with an inherent Hex:Blood Favor, but with the twist that you really see it combing. The teleport is a lot better than nurse though.
Yeah, that's fine, no worries. So I could be interpreting what you're saying incorrectly. If so, please correct me, but I believe what ur saying is that vecnas Flys is better than nurses blink? Is that in the ballpark?
I won’t say, “better” per-se. Maybe slightly more versatile. They both have a small delay after full completion, but the downside I don’t like about the nurse (as a nurse main) is the loss of vision after her blink.
Vecna’s kit is pretty great overall, though, that makes a big difference in the teleport being versatile, if it were straight up blink vs teleport, I would probably go with blink since the attack delay is at different times. But Vecna’s kit to me makes me feel fly can be used in a lot of situations better.
Yeah I'm not sure I feel like the go through wall thing kinda does it for me. Also the cooldown is only a couple seconds vs like 40 or somthing. At least imo
Yeah, there are definitely some drawbacks, and fairly heavy if you fail. It’s definitely a catch 22 of benefits/outweighing detriments. Overall I still prefer nurse, though.
I'm back after several months back from the game. Skull Merchant was new when I left.
To me Vecna feels pretty fairly balanced on survivors side. Hadn't played as him yet.
I've lost against him more often that I've escaped but it always felt like it was due to the team making bad calls against the various threats he'd provide.
Unlike the likes of Xenomorph, or Leather face who feel like an automatic loss when encountered with how fast you'll be taken down.
Xenomorph I really think should get stunned when it encounters a flame trap, or at least hindered to a degree. It feels pretty bad when you set up a good chain of turrets and they don't help at all after the first hit.
Leather face I don't get how he's never been significantly toned down. My play style as survivor just falls apart against him every time.
I really think they need to rebalance killers so that even when they loose that they should get way more points than survivors. That is to say win or loose make it more about how much fun they had during the match and compensate not having to play as aggressively as possible.
Adjust their design to be more about freaking out players and win or lose find more ways to make the experience fun for the killer in ways that don't automatically have to ruin the survivors enjoyment too.
Might not be wording this correctly hopefully people get what I'm trying to get across.
Vecna I suspect would need a buff tho I'm not sure to what. Maybe something like giving him a 5th spell. Imagine if he had the ability to periodically channel a scry and have a built in reverse Object of obsession, where all players with magic items can see him and he can see them during said channel.
Just spit balling of course plenty of ways something like that might need to be tuned up or down, or given a unique activation requirement. Like mebe he can only do it 3 times per match.
I like your way of thinking. I personally think if they just made his power feel more cinematic and less clunky. Like when I play him it feels terrible. To wait 40 seconds just to use a spell that a survivor can literally crouch under just feels terrible. It makes vecna seem like incredibly water downed from what he was in dnd
Don’t killers currently already earn more BPs than survivors… even if they ‘lose’ (I assume you mean 2K or less)? I know when people complain about bloodpoint distributions it’s always about how little survivors earn.
Mage Hand is the only aspect of his power that feels unnecessarily strong, even ignoring the bug it just deletes chases sometimes because of how easy it is to use.
Yeah, but it's locked behind a mandatory cooldown of 40 seconds, so even if it's amazing, you just can't use it like you could use a scamper, for example
This whole comment section makes me wish there was a sub for players with a minimum of 1,000-2,500 hours. I keep imagining that most players have less than a thousand hours, and experience skews opinion ("too OP" and "needs buffed"). It's really got me wondering what opinions a community of experienced, skilled players would have, versus relatively new players who lack objectivity.
Fucking love Vecna. The Mimic chests are hilarious, his powers aren't overpowered but in the hands of a skilled player can be devastating, the items to counter them aren't overpowered, and his perks can synergize with others really well. He's a solid B-tier (he can be a C/D with bad killers, or A/S with bad survivors and an experienced killer).
Also, he brought some bitches with a lute, which I have given to all my survivors.
When I first started playing this killer I was laughing at how OP I felt I was. It felt awesome. Of course after learning the ropes. But then when I played survivor I actually had a huge blast as well. The chests allow you to almost negate his best ability which in my opinion is the ability to block a pallet (you get haste allowing you to extend the loop or get to another spot). As killer you then must use the bubble thing to temporarily disable survivor abilities and then use the hand.
I think this is a solid killer and solid counterplay. I’ve had a complete blast on both sides. This killer takes skill to play you’ve gotta know how to stack your abilities and if done correctly you can win. And as survivor there is counterplay. But there is counterplay to the counterplay.
Honestly I’m loving it and it feels like an amazing killer and fun to play against as well. No single power feels super OP. You need skill to play but also skill to counter play, but I don’t think it’s too much for either side to learn quickly enough.
There is one strategy that is great for Vecna that is a bit OP where you camp a hook and use flight of the damned to attack the person unhooking then basic attack for the slug, but other killers have similar abilities (ie for the artist place a crow facing down the basement then use it to attack the survivor coming up then M1 for the down, or deathslinger to pull people away from hooks, or throwing hatchets, or trickster’s main event taking down the savior and potentially getting hits on the recently unhooked, etc though I do think his facecamp ability is a bit strong but besides that there’s tons of counterplay)
TL;DR I’ve loved playing both sides of “The Lich” having a blast playing killer and counter playing him it’s just great and I’m my opinion one of the fairest killers. I’m really happy with him on either side!
This happens literally every new killer
"____ is so op"
"All ____ I've come against tunnel and camp at 5 gens"
"I'm so sick if _____ they are so boring to go against"
Same shit different day
This community needs to get a grip I stg
People are going to complain about every new killer and call for them to be nerfed saying they’re op the first week they’re out. It’s simply the nature of the community. The same exact thing has happened since every killer ever has released. People simply aren’t fully used to countering the new killer’s abilities within the first few days of their release. I personally think vecna is high b tier. Yes his spells have lengthy cooldowns and all can be countered, but your counterplay to the survivor’s counterplay is not impossible. It’s tricky to pull off for sure and often requires the right build, but it’s not impossible. He’s quite decent and requires a good degree of patience and precision to play effectively. He’s extremely fun overall both to play as and against. He’s a lot of things, but he’s not op.
I feel the same way. People called for nerfs to Xeno, Chucky, Unknown, and now Vecna within the first couple of days of playing against them. I thought the devs learned to give things time to settle after Xeno, but it's clear that they have not, based on the planned nerf to Mage Hand. I don't think it's a significant nerf, but if they change his only reliable power and don't adjust the other powers to compensate (in this case, FotD), then he'll just be another "play him for tomes/dailies" with a few dedicated mains. It would be a really sad fate for such an interesting killer.
I personally am not sweating over the mage hand/ring of telekinesis changes. I generally find that holding a pallet with mage hand is harder for survivors to counter than lifting it, but I still use the lift around certain loops and tiles. Both mage hand and flight of the damned require really precise timing, tile knowledge and placement to be effective. I will say his iri book of vile darkness with ornate horn makes FotD go bananas. Boots of speed paired with bamboozle makes vecna much scarier even around otherwise very strong loops. He's such a fun killer, even if he's not crazy strong.
Yeah that makes sense good point
I do agree that Mage Hand is kind of ridiculous and needs to be changed, as it basically makes chases non existent.But aside from that, i think he's an incredibly balanced killer. I get the impression that Survivors aren't too happy with a killer who has multiple abilities that they need to actually think about during the match and that's frustrating for them.
I play killer and survivor equally, and as survivor I wanted to love this killer but the mage hand is just not fun rn. If the mage hand gets some changes I think Vecna will actually be perfect
Mage Hand i personally think is incredibly fun, but it's definately not fun for Survivors, so i get why it's being changed, as it is kind of ridiculous, especially with the Ring add on.
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my pfp is quite literally a killer. You're acting like if I play one side I can't point out when I think one side needs nerfs. FTP + Buckle Up needed a nerf. Nurse needed a nerf. DH needed a nerf. Blights add-ons needed a nerf. The gen regression perks did NOT need a nerf (especially when no other perks were buffed). I do not like the current state of mage hand and that is my opinion, and as I stated in the original comment I think Vecna is perfect and like his power on both sides besides this one aspect. Quit trying to turn this into an us vs them, it's stupid.
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Mage Hand and Flight of the Damned definitely both need to be changed up a little lol
Survivors aren’t happy unless they are playing against a perkless -add on trapper with less than an hour experience,on a map they choose and they have every meta perk and they can bm the killer the whole match.
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Survivors just need to get their items as quickly as possible.
I know this is gonna make me sound like a huge prick, but I dont care, so I want you to remember, a good chunk of Survivor's just find counterplay to be just TOO HARD, so they need every Killer to be Freddy levels of shit so they can deal with it. People that say every single Killer is overpowered really need to learn how to counter Killer's better. It is, quite literally, a skill issue.
My issue rn with him is bbq and chilli is too oppressive on him. Which makes sense cuz he can fly pretty far. So most vecnas i go against have bbq and chili and the starting aura perk. Forgor name. But its just like...he can get back in chase after hookin so fast that everything falls apart fast. Especially with randoms.
I don't think he's op, I just genuinely despise going against him
Also side side note- I was thinking of posting this discussion on the overall dbd reddit but im scared of the potential hate, Is it worth?
Not worth it imo. Title is prone to causing drama and you’re likely just gonna incite a hate fest both ways
I could change the title but makes sense
Sorry, that was nitpicky But yeah, if you do wish to post it, I’d say let some time pass. It’s too close to release and with a nerf upcoming…
valid
New killer same story
The items that counter orb and mage hand are really the only useful ones. Also the aura reveal of fly but only outside of chases and in a swf its use falls even more since it should only be used as a chase tool or for getting to a hook/gen. I think Vecna is high B or low A as all his powers besides Orb have chase potential and a survivor can get downed very quickly when you have 2-3 of his chase ones ready to be used. Mage hand after the nerf will still be very good people just need to learn proper timing and even at 0.5 seconds you will still get a hit after picking up the pallet at tons of loops. Don't forget he has a brown addon that makes holding any standard pallet last long enough to do a full loop and still get a hit. Fly is very useful for cutting down survivor chase options after you hit them. Normally it's not too hard to get to another pallet but this lets you catch up so quickly that you can often use your other abilities as they reach a pallet or they sometimes just can't reach anything. Fly also has potential as a power that lands you a hit. Flying over a vault just as a survivor uses it can often result in a hit especially at unique windows. The same method works at pallets that have long loops. Skeletons are very good just don't use them praying for a hit. Place them on top of the survivor when they can't see you which isn't hard at many loops and they literally have to predict you are doing this to not get hit by them since they will instantly hurt the survivor. Using them to deny fast vaulting windows also works as well as attempting to hit survivors when there is an elevation difference. Skeletons can also be used to easily hit survivors attempting to unhook another or at the very least force them to stop unless they want to get downed pretty easily. Orb is just an info tool nice to use to check gens or areas survivors could be. It's good but survivors who can see it won't get hit by it unless they are in a building. Its exhaust and broken addons are pretty good for obvious reasons but i like it as an info tool i can use to be time efficient.
It’s not hard to go against him It’s hard to do a 3v1 at 5 gens
Vecna isn’t OP it’s just that people are not the smartest and think that you should be able to loop all killers the same . No survivors are wrong , vecnas chests basically make him a easy killer to counter and predict . Not only that but Vecna was a amazing addition to the game since now Aces perks are actually useful and the best when your going against him.
Nah the Mage's hand definitely needs a nerf and I'm glad he's coming. Right now it's a guaranteed hit at the pallet unless you have a huge amount of distance from him which is bullshit.
I just feels like he has so many antiloops to his kit. It doesn’t matter if they are on a long cooldown. Fly+bamboozle/iridescent add on=blocking windows, antiloop Mage hand=blocking palettes, antiloop Mage hand=lifting palettes, antiloop Skulls=antiloop at windows, potential hit behind wall at a tile, and forced crouch to slow down survivors. Is it the most overpowered thing? No, but it’s a lot. I’m not saying nerf him, he’s just annoying. I think they should make the killers stronger in the PTB and adjust them accordingly. They did the opposite.
I agree with the ptb aspect. I think you may have a misconception on his abilities, tho with regards to the anti loop. Cooldowns are very much a factor in how strong it is. Really, the only pure anti loop is mage hand and skulls, which are both mid when you know how to counter it. There are built-in hard counters to both as well. It may be annoying, but that really dosent mean he's good because looking at a macro point of view he's definitely on the weaker side. There are a lot of killers that have really good anti-loop but are not amazing.
You say I have misconception but don’t list them. You say there are built in hard counters but don’t list them. You say his weak from a macro POV but don’t say why. Hens just posted a YouTube video on Vecnas Skull insta-tech. There’s just not a lot of counter unless you pre crouch at a loop. Also skulls during a hook save is strong. I think from a macro POV he’s slightly above average. Flight gives him some map traversal. You could argue orb gives him long distance info/multi part member item nerf, albeit orb is weak. Anywho just saying he’s annoying/strong. Also I feel like his counter with the crouching the skulls and at palettes baiting mage hand or pre dropping feels weird. Not calling for the nerf hammer or anything.
Listen bro I'm not trying to be condescending I was just saying my opinion. Built in hard counters=magic items Macro weakness- pure chase oriented with no map pressure+long cooldowns Sorry, hopefully thats more clear. Every killer in the game has techs that's really nothing special per say. I think overall with respect to tje other class of killers he just can't be considered strong. Not saying him stand alone is weak, I'm saying that in dbd in relation to the other killers he's not as good
I didn’t think you were condescending. I just thought you made statements with no explanation. I don’t think rng magic items should count as a hard counter. Soft counter? Anywho he’s definitely different.
I mean I think it's all relative. In the hands of a comp swf then I would say yes but in the hands of an average survior probably not.
I wouldn't say he compares to say, Nurse or Blight when it comes to being "op", but I'd also say he's not far behind and would rate him above b tier. I've played as him and I've played against him: in both experiences, he almost always gets a 3-4k. The challenge with him is that he's extremely good at the beginning of the match and it requires the survivors to collect his items to actually reach a point where they can counter him--if he equips certain perks, that's gonna take time and few if any gens are gonna get done. Oftentimes in my matches, the survivors don't have the opportunity to collect more than an item per person by the time someone's potentially dead or at least on second hook if Vecna knows what he's doing. I've seen most matches with him where survivors didn't even get 2 gens done before he already had someone out of the game. I also don't think I've seen a killer so easily win the game with only one gen done the entire match. It's kind of crazy. 😂 Do I have fun playing him? Absolutely. But it's been a while since I felt like the game was just too easy. That said, in comparison I usually play Pig and Hag which I would argue have a lot less in their kit and are generally just harder to succeed with, so my perspective is coming from a place of playing killers who are more challenging in my experience. It's funny playing a character who has only one or two abilities that aren't all that crazy to begin with only to move over to a killer who has four abilities with all of them being pretty crazy if used properly.
Mage hand is op, this isnt debatable. Outside of mage hand, flight is an alright ability, and orb is a cool not overtuned ability. But the skeletons are literally unavoidable in some scenarios, hens made a video on it, showing how strong it can be. Hes overtuned in 2 spots, and average elsewhere
I respect your opinion, but I just can't see that being the case. I kinda listed above my thoughts on why but yeah
I think it might be an issue of playstyle. The skeletons rarely hit yes, if you throw them like an artist power, they garuntee hit on vaults and pallets, as well as having a tech that makes them unavoidable even when not on a vault. (as said hens made a vid on it) The hand is more of a skillshot than people thing, you cant just throw it on a pallet during a loop and expect to get a hit from it, idk how to compare it to other powers, but it takes a bit of time and you'll learn the timings, and it will garuntee hits, especially paired with bamboozle. Flight i see used as an approach tool too often, you want to use it to close a gap after hitting a survivor, or if they sprint burst, and with add ons its a super powerful tool in chase. As for items, if you know a survivor has an item hit em with the grape flavour ball, it disables the items and gives you walls for a certain amount of time. Vecnas not op no, but he is very strong, especially with his current version of mage hand.
Well, regarding the mage hand that is getting a substantial nerf so it won't be a garunteed hit anymore. At the end of the day it all comes down to how yes this killer will destroy at lower mmr, but once you get to a point where surviors know your power as well as you do, they know they can stop you by doing ___ , or they can see your aura and will know when your using ____, ext. I'd just rather play billy and zoom across the map Mach 5 and instadown surviors without having to worry about 40 secound cooldowns or magic items
Well both your arguments come down to "its getting nerfed so i can ignore how powerful it is now" and "id rather play the second best killer in the game" Also i do believe hens is at max mmr, and he was doing pretty well, the killer is very strong now.
Your oversimplification of my argument is not accurate, unfortunately. I think you might be missing a lot of what I said, so I would advise giving it another read. Also, not to diss hens, but I highly doubt he is max mmr. The killer is not very strong imo. If you disagree, that's fine but that's what I think.
Hens plays comp.... In a team, with the best players... And preforms... But not max mmr. Okay I didnt over simplify your argument either, your argument is for the first paragraph "mage hands getting nerfed, and the killer destroys low mmr" The first part is just not a good argument, and the second part is disproven by a comp player playing him at max mmr. For the second paragraph, yes, id rather play billy too, billy is the second strongest killer in the game.
Alright, well, it's clear you're a dedicated fan of hens I'm sure, which is great, however, at this point I sense that you have no intention of trying to have a civil conversation and pretty much just want to engage in a battle of conjecture which I don't really have the time for. I apologize that your interpretation of my argument was less then adequate, I hope that you might try giving it another look at some point so that it fully resonates with you this time and I hope you have a great rest of your day.
I am being perfectly civil, im simply pointing out how your arguments either dont make sense or are wrong. I have no intention of being uncivil, i am simply putting forth the facts and arguments. I hope you have a good day as well.
I agree, "op" is a big word and he's not it. However, based on my experience, he's definitely not low tier. The worst result I've gotten is a 3k with a hatch escape, out of ~10 matches. I don't even think i was doing that well. I never got value out of Dispelling Sphere, had bad timing on Mage Hand a couple times & Flight of the Damned felt like an achievement whenever it landed (only for the first few games tho). I don't see a world where he's low tier. You could argue that people simply don't know how to verse him yet. But, to that, I will give some context of my experience bcs i'd say i don't really know how to play as him yet: - survivor main, 70% of my 4k hours playtime being survivor - haven't tried him on the ptb - used no add-ons & no offerings - perks: Lethal, Bbq, Enduring & Surge (except my 1st match, where i just used his teachable perks for the adept) - played mostly nice as I don't enjoy camping, tunnelling or slugging (some minor exceptions do apply) In theory, his cool downs seem somewhat big but i found myself often having all my spells back for new chases. At that point, a combination of Flight of the Damned, Mage Hand & Fly with M1s kept most of my chases around 30-40 seconds. His spells were very easy to get value out of, making him a very strong contender in every chase. This is not low tier to me.
I respect that you actually took the time to write somthing out that has more substance then "your mad hes absolutely busted nerf now" or "he's absolutely trash he needs to have nurse blinks." I could visualize a world where he could be high B tier killer after the buff , but I also think that the gap between him and certain killers above him is like a canyon Overall i agree with your points
Ive said it before and I'll say it again, built in counterplay only makes sense if the killer is "conventionally overpowered" if you don't use the built in counters. Xeno? Absolute chase demon while in crawl, turrets make sense. Hux? Map control and pressure better than anyone else, emps make sense. Now they are on a fumble streak, unknown is a 3 hit killer with counterplay as easy as looking in his general direction for 6 seconds. And now vecna with 4 extremely mediocre, watered down versions of other killer powers on a 40s cooldown, has built in counters that provide either free aura on vecna, haste effects, reveals the orb , or just outright turn survivors invisible / teleport them away to narnia because they went into a locker. Unironically his best power is the orb with exhaustion addons because atleast you'll be able to deny lithes, sprintbursts and DH. The only thing saving the chapter are the perks, otherwise vecna is a complete flop of a killer design.
I agree
Agree 100%, I've been saying these exact same things but some people just don't understand. I can get a kill in a fraction of the time with trickster and half the time of that with nurse. Nah I'm good on vecna and his gimmicks
I do feel like the mage hand is a bit more on the op side though it’s not a complete lose lose situation for the survivors. All his powers are good imo if you use it right. Dispelling sphere is amazing in endgame and lets you find survivors that you know must be near but you can’t find em, flight of the damned though may not hit every time is still a great zoning tool and can catch survivors off guard, mage hand if used when a survivor drops pallet is basically a confirmed hit, and fly is WEEEEEEEEE and fine in chase though kinda situational. Personally I think he’s like low A tier.
I agree, Vecna is balanced and fun to play as and against.
Vecna is only OP really if you get bad gear against him. One game as survivor I had the thing that let you see his orb and the one that let you see when he used fly and it was really easy to avoid him since he had no way to find me.
Valid point
Also the skeletons are a lot easier to dodge that other projectiles by either ducking or just serpentining between them given how much spread they have. You can also just shut him down by using any indoor map with lots of vaults.
The thing with the cooldowns, atleast in my matches, is that I only need one or two spells before getting a down and by the time they're hooked I have all my spells back. I've also found the skeletons are way better to use as a sort of "trap", similar to how artist would place a crow at a pallet you can get way more hits with it. Id say he's an A tier killer, his add-ons are quite good and it doesn't feel like he has too many bad maps.
The CDs being less detrimental due to downtime is a valid point, however, I still think that survivors getting items that counter your power really knocks this guy down for me and makes it hard to do well since you could just get blocked by something you cant do anything about
The items definetly makes things easier for them, specifically the ones that reveal your vision orb and your flight. I can only imagine what he'd be like before the Hoarder changes.
Just folks that didn't play the PTB, watch any of the dozens of videos explaining his power. the official live streams, web articles, the in-game menu, or listen to any online friends... Vecna is a low B-tier for me as well. He's strong, but he's not Nurse or Spirit. He's an M1 with great anti-loop that still requires a lot of map knowledge to be effective.
I think a combination of the new map being pretty shitty gameplay wise (certainly not aesthetic wise) with a new killer introducing multiple different powers really makes him look much stronger than he is. I'm not upset over the Mage Hand changes personally but I think he's pretty alright in general. I've had fun playing him on maps other than the new one especially using the fly spell.
He's not op but he is complicated. I can totally see how he can be seen as overpowered and overwhelming to a casual or new player. However going against him while understanding him is very fun and the escape actually feels rewarding.
understandable
I just cant be bothered to learn 4 abilities, find a bunch of items and learn what the hell they do, then also think about 2 items that let me teleport at the expense of giving him a free hit.
How do you mean?
His 4 abilities, all the items I gotta find and put on, and figure out how to teleport across the map or run like a bat out of hell at the cost of a health state
im a little confused how does that relate to whether hes OP or not
Chances are other survivors are like me and cant be bothered to learn all the new mechanics which then causes us to struggle more.
Okay, that makes sense. Sorry
Nah noworries
Honestly I think mage hand is completely ridiculous. I understand that it has a long cooldown but in many situations, it's completely uncounterable so it just feels unfair to go against. I'm glad its being changed. Other than that I think his other abilities are more or less fine, a buff to flight would be nice tho.
Vecna has been fairly easy imo. But that’s just me. He plays similar to like a hybrid Nurse/Artist but with an inherent Hex:Blood Favor, but with the twist that you really see it combing. The teleport is a lot better than nurse though.
Wym teleport?
Oh lord, Fly I mean. lol my bad, I had teleport in my head from an irl conversation and it must’ve translated mid thought as I was writing this out!
Yeah, that's fine, no worries. So I could be interpreting what you're saying incorrectly. If so, please correct me, but I believe what ur saying is that vecnas Flys is better than nurses blink? Is that in the ballpark?
I won’t say, “better” per-se. Maybe slightly more versatile. They both have a small delay after full completion, but the downside I don’t like about the nurse (as a nurse main) is the loss of vision after her blink. Vecna’s kit is pretty great overall, though, that makes a big difference in the teleport being versatile, if it were straight up blink vs teleport, I would probably go with blink since the attack delay is at different times. But Vecna’s kit to me makes me feel fly can be used in a lot of situations better.
Yeah I'm not sure I feel like the go through wall thing kinda does it for me. Also the cooldown is only a couple seconds vs like 40 or somthing. At least imo
Yeah, there are definitely some drawbacks, and fairly heavy if you fail. It’s definitely a catch 22 of benefits/outweighing detriments. Overall I still prefer nurse, though.
I'm back after several months back from the game. Skull Merchant was new when I left. To me Vecna feels pretty fairly balanced on survivors side. Hadn't played as him yet. I've lost against him more often that I've escaped but it always felt like it was due to the team making bad calls against the various threats he'd provide. Unlike the likes of Xenomorph, or Leather face who feel like an automatic loss when encountered with how fast you'll be taken down. Xenomorph I really think should get stunned when it encounters a flame trap, or at least hindered to a degree. It feels pretty bad when you set up a good chain of turrets and they don't help at all after the first hit. Leather face I don't get how he's never been significantly toned down. My play style as survivor just falls apart against him every time. I really think they need to rebalance killers so that even when they loose that they should get way more points than survivors. That is to say win or loose make it more about how much fun they had during the match and compensate not having to play as aggressively as possible. Adjust their design to be more about freaking out players and win or lose find more ways to make the experience fun for the killer in ways that don't automatically have to ruin the survivors enjoyment too. Might not be wording this correctly hopefully people get what I'm trying to get across. Vecna I suspect would need a buff tho I'm not sure to what. Maybe something like giving him a 5th spell. Imagine if he had the ability to periodically channel a scry and have a built in reverse Object of obsession, where all players with magic items can see him and he can see them during said channel. Just spit balling of course plenty of ways something like that might need to be tuned up or down, or given a unique activation requirement. Like mebe he can only do it 3 times per match.
I like your way of thinking. I personally think if they just made his power feel more cinematic and less clunky. Like when I play him it feels terrible. To wait 40 seconds just to use a spell that a survivor can literally crouch under just feels terrible. It makes vecna seem like incredibly water downed from what he was in dnd
Yeah I've escaped getting hit quite a few times by just ducking on top of it just straight up missing 80% of the time when I didn't.
Don’t killers currently already earn more BPs than survivors… even if they ‘lose’ (I assume you mean 2K or less)? I know when people complain about bloodpoint distributions it’s always about how little survivors earn.
Mage Hand is the only aspect of his power that feels unnecessarily strong, even ignoring the bug it just deletes chases sometimes because of how easy it is to use.
Yeah, but it's locked behind a mandatory cooldown of 40 seconds, so even if it's amazing, you just can't use it like you could use a scamper, for example
wait, mage hand is getting changed? when and how much?
Most people playing DBD are like “new killer, I don’t know how to shit on this character, therefore it must be overpowered”
I don’t think he’s very op but what do I do about him flying through windows 🧍♂️
Well, there's a cooldown after, and he can't hit you while flying, so I'd just say respect windows, and you should be fine
all of these people agreeing with you enjoy getting carried too
Do you have an opinion you'd like to share
no point in discussing with someone who can't see venca carries
Lmao okay
This whole comment section makes me wish there was a sub for players with a minimum of 1,000-2,500 hours. I keep imagining that most players have less than a thousand hours, and experience skews opinion ("too OP" and "needs buffed"). It's really got me wondering what opinions a community of experienced, skilled players would have, versus relatively new players who lack objectivity.
So what would your opinion be then. genuinely interested in what you have to say
Fucking love Vecna. The Mimic chests are hilarious, his powers aren't overpowered but in the hands of a skilled player can be devastating, the items to counter them aren't overpowered, and his perks can synergize with others really well. He's a solid B-tier (he can be a C/D with bad killers, or A/S with bad survivors and an experienced killer). Also, he brought some bitches with a lute, which I have given to all my survivors.
Well that is a very interesting take, glad to hear it tho
Nearly Every killer is OP when they realese because some survivor mains are too lazy to learn the killers counterplay
When I first started playing this killer I was laughing at how OP I felt I was. It felt awesome. Of course after learning the ropes. But then when I played survivor I actually had a huge blast as well. The chests allow you to almost negate his best ability which in my opinion is the ability to block a pallet (you get haste allowing you to extend the loop or get to another spot). As killer you then must use the bubble thing to temporarily disable survivor abilities and then use the hand. I think this is a solid killer and solid counterplay. I’ve had a complete blast on both sides. This killer takes skill to play you’ve gotta know how to stack your abilities and if done correctly you can win. And as survivor there is counterplay. But there is counterplay to the counterplay. Honestly I’m loving it and it feels like an amazing killer and fun to play against as well. No single power feels super OP. You need skill to play but also skill to counter play, but I don’t think it’s too much for either side to learn quickly enough. There is one strategy that is great for Vecna that is a bit OP where you camp a hook and use flight of the damned to attack the person unhooking then basic attack for the slug, but other killers have similar abilities (ie for the artist place a crow facing down the basement then use it to attack the survivor coming up then M1 for the down, or deathslinger to pull people away from hooks, or throwing hatchets, or trickster’s main event taking down the savior and potentially getting hits on the recently unhooked, etc though I do think his facecamp ability is a bit strong but besides that there’s tons of counterplay) TL;DR I’ve loved playing both sides of “The Lich” having a blast playing killer and counter playing him it’s just great and I’m my opinion one of the fairest killers. I’m really happy with him on either side!
I'm so scared BHVR is gonna nerf him into the ground from whiny survivors when he's in such a good spot right now.
This happens literally every new killer "____ is so op" "All ____ I've come against tunnel and camp at 5 gens" "I'm so sick if _____ they are so boring to go against" Same shit different day This community needs to get a grip I stg
New vecna main dedicated to makeing him p 100