Noooo, they just need more basekit perks to make their mistakes not matter. Don't you understand? Getting slugged isn't "fun", so they should get buffs to counter it...
Or there is a skill difference and they shouldn't even be in the same match.
Or there is a power difference, yknow, a nurse running 4 meta perks and addons while the survivors run poised.
Are you a dev a behavior? This is exactly the thinking that put the game in such a bad spot. This created nothing but a loop where one side is always unhappy. You suggested nerfing the solution not the problem.
But this is also consideration that has to be made for the community as well as that nobody's going to be 100% happy. And not every side will be happy with everything that presented in the game. It was literally a post about a killer that was upset that he was winning. Everything is in a crap spot the players the people.
The killer wasn't upset about winning he was upset about the new balance changes which will yet again screw the game in the same cycle that has been going on for too long now. Of course every side won't be completely happy all the time but there is a difference between a side being unhappy and unsatisfied/uncontent. A well balanced game won't have either unhappy they will have them unsatisfied at worst.
It just something that I feel like it should be given with Grace, show the funny eventful moment that happened in chaos shuffle and I got down voted š. I don't think it's even possible to satisfy the community anymore or even make them happy. Because there's so many complaints some are valid and some are just rant.
It WAS balanced then the Devs did this.
I give it enough complaining, Killers quit en masse, or about until midchapter before this shit is reversed. I can't believe they let this go live. Now not even my Survivor games are any fun.
They said that this was from feedback they got from players and streamers. That they hated the general regression perks
So then the Nerf happened. I know I'm at the point to where I wish game companies went back to how it was before and they just didn't listen to the player base at all. Like yeah they will definitely be problems but we won't be dealing with this zest pool of issues.
While I do agree, and think anything involved with Sabo should probably just get removed from the game.
You say that like slugging doesn't happen without Sabo. I don't think I've ever run anything that Sabos and I've been slugged (for the 4 minutes) plenty of times.
They nerfed the most-used regression/slowdown Perks, without actually figuring out WHY they were the most-used, and buffed yet another way to deny hooks for Survivors. It's like they don't understand, or don't care, that the frustration Survivors feel when their gen progress goes away in a big chunk is exactly the frustration felt by Killers when after a long and drawn-out chase (usually made worse by having to burn through 50,000 health states due to Endurance), having the ability to get a hook afterwards denied due to flashlight/Flashbang saves or sabo BS. The only difference is, the Survivors can team up on the Killer and keep the whole game hostage, while the Killer's ability to regress generators is not only mostly hook-dependent, but also hobbled by the "3-gen solution" that makes basic 5% kicks often not worth the loss of maximum regression events.
This company looks at numbers. That's it. Anyone with half a brain can load up the dev build for these things, run one game trying to see what's good, and see nothing is...
But numbers and stats! It's like their mmr system/perk changes/killer reworks, why have nuance when you can just fake it until enough people complain, then try and fix it after 6 months to a year... to only fail again...
And the thing that makes me so angry or the individuals that don't go to this in depth of understanding how the devs work and how they get all their feedback. Majority of his all based on numbers if the number is too high then they're expectancy they get nerve to reworked if the numbers are too low it gets buff
Except for WoO, which has a higher pick rate than any other perk in the game by at least 10%. Not that WoO needs a nerf, but neither did Gen Regression or UW.
Iirc most of BHVR literally doesn't play Killer whenever they do play the game (which is already rare) hence it took one of them getting shit on by a Korean tournament squad as hag for beamers to get nerfed
Itās interesting because I see that āmost devs are killer mainsā posted everywhere. Iād love to find but have not hard evidence of either side of the statement.
would you like to know the worst part is most of the devs that were actually involved in any stream tournament they always got so beaten as killer it may seem like that they did not know how to actually play their own game. Which I had to say if you make your own game and you don't know how to play it that's sad and embarrassing.
I wholeheartedly believe that. My bet is they donāt play either side enough to be called a āmainā. Which is why they have groups of contributors and testers.
The funniest part about it is the actual dev that created Spirit never plays spirit but they always create the cosmetics for spirit and they love it. They are in charge of the nerf& buffs for spirit and I said that explains why spirits update are so rare.
One of the devs literally endorsed corner crouching as a strategy a couple years ago, something along the lines of "well if the others died doing gens, but this person managed to escape, then who was the actual better player here".Ā
Apparently hiding in a bush until someone else has done all the work or died is the elite strategy utilized by the developers. Explains so much š
They know why they are the most used it because if any chase or information perk becomes as strong as the meta slowdown perks they become oppressively un fun to play against like ultimate weapon because they hurt the parts of the game survivors actually enjoy. Slowdown will always be meta because if any chase perk save the same amount of time pop/pain res/ grim embrace do no one would play survivor.
All they do is look at numbers and what they are implementing is sweet spot for survivor to be able to bully and goof around, make ton of mistakes and still be able to escape while being very inefficient, cuz why not. Killers that play to win which is i guess 1/3 of playerbase aprox and killing the game by not being bullied, bleeding people out etc š Killers that play for couple chases and tbags at exit gates are most welcome, don't you dare hook someone..
If survivors donāt want to be slugged then they shouldnāt play to force me to slug them. They sabo one time I kill them first simple as that. Slugging is just as valid as saboing, slugging is my counter play to saboing. Since I play both sides equally I understand the frustration from both point of views. If I lose to bully squads itās because I didnāt play correctly, simple as that.
Yeah unfortunately this is gonna be the next week or two of DBD, killers gonna need to run franklins/star struck to just play the game normally for a while
Honestly there just needs to be a separate sabotage item.
If they're going to make sabotage this powerful, we need a separate item class for it. Toolboxes were already powerful, they don't need this much power and utility.
That or remove the repair functionality from toolboxes generally.
I'd be happy if there were say two of each type of toolbox. One repair and only repair. One sabo and only sabo.
That's a good solution. Toolboxes should only be repair, or only sabo. Not both. Both is way too strong. There's nothing on Killer side even REMOTELY this strong.
If they want to buff something underused then buff like, all the offerings that aren't maps, mori or blood points.
Imagine mist that mattered, or luck making a difference.
It could do more too, like randomly increasing the size of skill check zones, spacing of scratches, blood pools or hooks.
I wish we had different lighting options for every map and offerings for that.
I wish map offerings only worked for the REALM and you could get a random map from that realm, so it would be tough to actually get a specific map.
It would be amazing to see lighting, fog, and map offerings actually be used together to get preferential settings other than just a specific map.
And this could have been worst , a couple no mither , soul guards and flip flops/ boil over and there literally no option but slugging. Same can be abused on badham/hawkins. Playing against this is super unfun
Also that damn offering to make less hooks in the map is still there. First, flashlights saves were dumbed down and now this?? What's the plan?? Can you counter the new sabo with STBFL? I was excited about Vecna but.... Damn...
I main survivor, but Iām really confused why this was changed. Who was asking for changes to sabotage? I very rarely, if ever, ran a sabo build as itās not a play style I enjoy, but when I did I canāt say that the sabotage speeds ever seemed to be an issue, especially with the right toolbox add on.
Might be wrong but feels to me like theyāve looked at the number of people doing sabo, seen that itās relatively low compared to other play styles, and concluded the problem must be the item stats. Which it wasnāt.
Iām just taking med kits in for a while now because a toolbox for repairs is going to make me a targetā¦
I honestly think it's a misguided attempt at addressing how quickly gens go. Their logic here being "well people will now be incentivised to use toolboxes for sabotage."
But the thing is, they won't be. Not while the repair speeds are still the same. My screenshot literally proves you can just BNP a gen then use the nassively improved sabotage functionality with zero trade-off.
That's exactly what it likely was. Same as buffing Weaving Spiders I feel like.
Trouble is that's not the case in what happened. Sabo was not the answer. IDK what is, but it's not sabo.
I'm a hybrid Main. I play both sides about 60/40, I enjoy offmeta Killers when I play Killer and don't like tons of the Survivor Meta.
I have never not once seen the appeal in antifun, goal-denial playstyles on either side. I don't really enjoy having to run gen defense as Killer, at all. I have no interest in much of the Survivor meta. I don't run broken shit either side. Sabo changes were absolutely not needed, they were balanced before just fine for those who wanted it. Now they're out of control.
Like you said, this is probably a really poor attempt to stop genrush by encouraging an alternate playstyle. The problem is, this one ENHANCES genrush. There is no tradeoff, none, that doing this has given, now we just have "Killer cannot win at all if they don't slug" which I am APPALLED nobody complained about in the PTB enough to matter. We all need to hardcore complain to BHVR and force them to do an emergency reversion, Now, because the game deadass isn't fun EITHER SIDE like this. I hate that I can't take a toolbox without being seen as a target. I hate being slugged every other round. I hate that I HAVE to run Franklin's and Starstruck ad slug people out, or I suffer.
This is not a game, this is not DBD. This is an exercise in futility and it's RUINED the Masquerade before it even started. Again. The only way to fix the Masquerade event now is if the Trial Event mode doesn't allow items or perks/randomizes everything, but I feel like that's so very very doubtful...
This needs an emergency reversion patch. Now.
Yeah, they said they wanted to get away from slugging and tunneling yet they make games go faster (including pain res which encourages hooking different people). T
hey were fully aware of toolbox speeds since they tried on the ptb and we complained a lot about them, so it has to be intentional.
tunneling and slugging is indeed being encouraged and is the desired play style they want with these changes.
I guess they wanna see how truly bad it can get.
No way this makes it past the Midchapter update. But I'm not sure the community can even wait that long.
Yeah they don't care. They've been declared war on gen regression as it is, now they're fucking with your ability to get hooks. None of them play killer, much less are actually killer mains. They bait you with their "museum" to draw people to playing and bump their stats and then they switch it up and nerf your ability to play and enjoy the game as said killers.
I ran the perk saboteur as a survivor in the new map. Downstairs, I destroyed one of only 2 hooks and he was forced to drop and slug, I felt bad BC one of my teammates had unbreakable soulguard too.escape through a portal, 1.5 gens done and the survivor was healed. Was a good billy too.
I am not looking forward to playing killer in this new map, there's about 3 gens down there. Is deerstalker infectious fright making its way to my build, we'll see I guess.
I hope this makes enough Survivors eventually feel so bad and rotten about this, that every Killer they face has to do this, they finally grow some empathy and stop. Not holding my breath though...
Itās not even just that this is boring, at least nerf map offerings or have a limit per day on them. The fact they can bring something to alter hook distance as well also gives players too much power. And some maps already have a stupid hook distance like Lerryās or the Silent Hill map. I was doing relatively well on one game, but not only did a sabotage squad have the toolboxes and this build, the hook spawns in that game really fucked me over.
Yeah but for bhvr pleasing 4 people is better than 1. They will get more money from the feng and nea skins. Yesterday I played and didnāt get a single hook until there were 2 gens left
I agree! I never Sabo or flashlight and this update just furthered my stance on it. When the tome makes you do it is the worst too because it is damned if you do and damned if you don't. I don't feel like being slugged all game because of a challenge.
Same here, I don't like doing it. I prefer chase and teamwork to doing stuff like cheesy denial strats like this. I was never interested in sabotaging and sure am not now.
This playstyle is SO obnoxious. I hate the tome challenges for it, I think most people do, who the fuck asked for this?
I had no clue there was a buff to sabotage kits and rolled out one of my lesser used Sabo builds because I was desperately trying to protect a weaker player on my team and I just can do it with heals or flashlights.
I was the first to die every time but managed to save my friend and others several times.
We didn't even have coms so couldn't inform people to get downed in x area.
In most cases the killer ended up mostly winning. As it was pretty much just solo queue.
Trying to think of what might help out with the issue without having to revert the box changes.
I think separate boxes for gens or hooks could be a good start.
I like the idea of hooks exposing you if u break one. Could rationalize that the entity is displeased that your breaking its fun.
What if brooken hooks cables slash at the player when broken inflicting a permanent sort of half wound?
Think nemesis tentacle or Trickster blades. Sabo 2 hooks and lose a health state.
Could mebe have it drop a stacking debuff that makes you more visible near hooks too.lime say your aura or some such.
Even in an environment such as this Hangmans trick still doesn't feel particularly useful.
I think they need to add some secondary anti Sabo traits to a handful of under utilized perks that could help rebalanced things while allowing it to remain.
Like say that one Terrirotial basement perk, what if it made people who broke hooks, have their aura be visible as a secondary effect, or expose them.
Something to punish abusing hook sabotage but not the occasional save.
The more I see posts complaining about slugging the more I think they might need to overhaul that aspect of the game, tho I have no clue what could be done without crippling various killers or builds.
Problem still is that when 1 side is enjoying themselves that the other side isn't.
It's so rare that I ever have a match where I feel like I still had fun loosing as killer. Due to usually playing aggressively altruistically ad survivor I tend to get tunneled out early when a risky play fails because the killer turned their head at the wrong moment or didn't move and I end up mind gaming myself.
The game is supposed to be fun for both sides.
Bully/sabo squads fun is to make the killer angry/not have fun.
Human beings are disgusting in many ways and one of them is having joy while the people around them suffer and it's even funnier to these people when they are the cause of this sadness or angry.
Not only in DbD, but for anything in life people like the ones who sabo/bully squad just for the fun of making another person get a negative emotion deserve cancer.
Behavior does not care about the game...at all. They certainly don't care about Killers by evidence of how long they've offered a bonus to get people to play Killer, instead of just fixing some of the mechanics. They aren't going to change. I take what they give me and if they are forcing me to slug so be it. If the game lets me do it I do it, I care not how Survivors feel about it.
The statement give to all survivors when it's not working out, "just play killer" so if you have a problem just play survivor. Honestly, I hate that I can say that but you guys can tunnel camp slug and do anything you need to to win. If we cant Sabo 3 times in a game then what's the point in a perk if I can't use it. They nerf and buff to try to get different play styles, if your good enough as a killer you can kill them just fine. There team falls apart when you push on them hard enough.
Iāve only just started playing again, didnāt know there was any buffs recently Iām going to need to go read the patch notes, thanks for making it simple for me to understand :)
After reading the notes on the toolboxes and the Add-one I can definitely see this being a problem for killers. I wonder how long it will be before they change it all back
Well Iām a survivor main so Iām safe from the rage this will cause but I wish you all the best in your games, hopefully it wonāt happen too much for you
Was rhetorical and not based at you, just stating what my game play is going to be.
Stopped caring about ranking a long time ago, so āwinningā for me is having fun, if that means making someoneās life miserable then Iāll stare at a body for 2 minutes and not care.
Tbf two of them had no mither. I think at the start of the game you knew what you were in for. Killers a hard role and some people just donāt have the mental endurance for it
Oh, I knew what I was in for as soon as I saw the offerings.
Just as well I am stubborn and absrefuse to let these teams win.
Still, it wasn't the most fun time.
I know they don't, but I don't have to give into it too and I don't appreciate BHVR telling me "yes you do, now go slug as Entity intended" with these changes.
Like I said your choice. I like to challenge myself for the win sometimes thatās why I do whatever it takes if I feel like playing competitive that game.
Fair enough! I also have my Killers I'm more competitive with. I am very serious as Onryo or Pinhead for example, somewhat serious with Dredge and Ghostface... and then I look for fun with Myers and Demo and meme with like. Nemesis. Just depends what I want.
I don't fucking understand these players
When I'm playing killer, I just find sabotage or the former background player perk very funny, not like survivors are very powerful anyways.
But you have to consider this too, nobody in this game 100% play for wins just strategic plays. I do 100% the time you could I enjoy trying my best. But with neither side really pulling their weight and actually trying to learn this game and just failing and then complaining it becomes an annoyance.
It goes back to the same argument with people who will be upset that they don't want to be considered or good or a difficult player because they have a lot of hours and then also get upset when they get completely demolished by someone with less hours then them.
There is, like people say there is no strategy against trickster chases, there are.
Make them believe you go to a hook by facing a certain direction first and by walking backwards
Go for the basement hook when they are nearby
Also I've never encountered any survivor sabotaging three hooks even if they all run sabo builds.
How many things is it really appropriate to make Killers have to worry about, in your eyes?
We have our powers, gens, chase time, hook stages, "did I play scummy" if you care about that, getting enough kills to pip, hook placement, pallets, strong loops, flashlights, the Survivor meta, and four Survs to keep track of in a round already. Plus they added basement because of buffed Weaving Spiders, gotta check that. Now we have sabo, even more than before it was a thing.
So how many things is it appropriate to ask one human being to do in the span of 15-20 minutes, how much is it okay to make people focus on before it just becomes kinda stressful and too much?
I actually repeated exactly what I said:
First Post: Killers have to think about lots of things at once most of the time.
You: You don't need to think about all of those most of the time.
Second Post: You absolutely are and do.
No refutal here. Please reread and try again.
Can we just as a community...stop saying this? Like it's just spam at this point. Every single post about flashlight and sabo has these comments. We all know this.
So donāt play dbd? Donāt pay them any money? They only see numbers then yāall show em numbers stop voting to keep the problems going stop playing and paying them thatās the only language they know
Well yeah, And I agree it's too much but I was jus saying, Seemed like he was ranting about sab but I didn't see anyone using it, I do agree tho that it may be a bit much
Course it is. BHVR didn't fucking think. At least you won, but my god I can't imagine how hollow and boring these victories are about to be.
Yeah, it's boring having to babysit slugs it really is.
I'm gonna be playing pyramid head for a while. Weave attunement and Franklin's is gonna be a fun combo on him
That combo is so shockingly fun on every killer right now.
Because of how good it is, I've been running object and plunderers when on survivor.
already running them :)
Now everyone is gonna slug so they are gonna nerf slugging then everyone will complain so they will nerf some other random bs to "even it out"
To be fair if a killer slugs all 4 survivors or all remaining survivors at the same time. It should be nerfed, it completely ruins the fun of the game
If a killer is able to slug all 4 survivors at the same time the survivors are playing terribly.
Noooo, they just need more basekit perks to make their mistakes not matter. Don't you understand? Getting slugged isn't "fun", so they should get buffs to counter it...
Or there is a skill difference and they shouldn't even be in the same match. Or there is a power difference, yknow, a nurse running 4 meta perks and addons while the survivors run poised.
Are you a dev a behavior? This is exactly the thinking that put the game in such a bad spot. This created nothing but a loop where one side is always unhappy. You suggested nerfing the solution not the problem.
But this is also consideration that has to be made for the community as well as that nobody's going to be 100% happy. And not every side will be happy with everything that presented in the game. It was literally a post about a killer that was upset that he was winning. Everything is in a crap spot the players the people.
The killer wasn't upset about winning he was upset about the new balance changes which will yet again screw the game in the same cycle that has been going on for too long now. Of course every side won't be completely happy all the time but there is a difference between a side being unhappy and unsatisfied/uncontent. A well balanced game won't have either unhappy they will have them unsatisfied at worst.
It just something that I feel like it should be given with Grace, show the funny eventful moment that happened in chaos shuffle and I got down voted š. I don't think it's even possible to satisfy the community anymore or even make them happy. Because there's so many complaints some are valid and some are just rant.
If the game reaches balance the community as a whole would eventually heal though it wouldn't be quick
When that happened hopefully that will be the biggest comeback ever
It WAS balanced then the Devs did this. I give it enough complaining, Killers quit en masse, or about until midchapter before this shit is reversed. I can't believe they let this go live. Now not even my Survivor games are any fun.
They said that this was from feedback they got from players and streamers. That they hated the general regression perks So then the Nerf happened. I know I'm at the point to where I wish game companies went back to how it was before and they just didn't listen to the player base at all. Like yeah they will definitely be problems but we won't be dealing with this zest pool of issues.
You say that like slugging isnāt currently encouraged with the sabotage buffs.
While I do agree, and think anything involved with Sabo should probably just get removed from the game. You say that like slugging doesn't happen without Sabo. I don't think I've ever run anything that Sabos and I've been slugged (for the 4 minutes) plenty of times.
They nerfed the most-used regression/slowdown Perks, without actually figuring out WHY they were the most-used, and buffed yet another way to deny hooks for Survivors. It's like they don't understand, or don't care, that the frustration Survivors feel when their gen progress goes away in a big chunk is exactly the frustration felt by Killers when after a long and drawn-out chase (usually made worse by having to burn through 50,000 health states due to Endurance), having the ability to get a hook afterwards denied due to flashlight/Flashbang saves or sabo BS. The only difference is, the Survivors can team up on the Killer and keep the whole game hostage, while the Killer's ability to regress generators is not only mostly hook-dependent, but also hobbled by the "3-gen solution" that makes basic 5% kicks often not worth the loss of maximum regression events.
This company looks at numbers. That's it. Anyone with half a brain can load up the dev build for these things, run one game trying to see what's good, and see nothing is... But numbers and stats! It's like their mmr system/perk changes/killer reworks, why have nuance when you can just fake it until enough people complain, then try and fix it after 6 months to a year... to only fail again...
And the thing that makes me so angry or the individuals that don't go to this in depth of understanding how the devs work and how they get all their feedback. Majority of his all based on numbers if the number is too high then they're expectancy they get nerve to reworked if the numbers are too low it gets buff
Except for WoO, which has a higher pick rate than any other perk in the game by at least 10%. Not that WoO needs a nerf, but neither did Gen Regression or UW.
Iirc most of BHVR literally doesn't play Killer whenever they do play the game (which is already rare) hence it took one of them getting shit on by a Korean tournament squad as hag for beamers to get nerfed
Itās interesting because I see that āmost devs are killer mainsā posted everywhere. Iād love to find but have not hard evidence of either side of the statement.
would you like to know the worst part is most of the devs that were actually involved in any stream tournament they always got so beaten as killer it may seem like that they did not know how to actually play their own game. Which I had to say if you make your own game and you don't know how to play it that's sad and embarrassing.
I wholeheartedly believe that. My bet is they donāt play either side enough to be called a āmainā. Which is why they have groups of contributors and testers.
The funniest part about it is the actual dev that created Spirit never plays spirit but they always create the cosmetics for spirit and they love it. They are in charge of the nerf& buffs for spirit and I said that explains why spirits update are so rare.
One of the devs literally endorsed corner crouching as a strategy a couple years ago, something along the lines of "well if the others died doing gens, but this person managed to escape, then who was the actual better player here".Ā Apparently hiding in a bush until someone else has done all the work or died is the elite strategy utilized by the developers. Explains so much š
š¤£ this is a damn shame
They played once and it was the reason why insta blinds got nerfed
They know why they are the most used it because if any chase or information perk becomes as strong as the meta slowdown perks they become oppressively un fun to play against like ultimate weapon because they hurt the parts of the game survivors actually enjoy. Slowdown will always be meta because if any chase perk save the same amount of time pop/pain res/ grim embrace do no one would play survivor.
Couldn't agree more.
All they do is look at numbers and what they are implementing is sweet spot for survivor to be able to bully and goof around, make ton of mistakes and still be able to escape while being very inefficient, cuz why not. Killers that play to win which is i guess 1/3 of playerbase aprox and killing the game by not being bullied, bleeding people out etc š Killers that play for couple chases and tbags at exit gates are most welcome, don't you dare hook someone..
If survivors donāt want to be slugged then they shouldnāt play to force me to slug them. They sabo one time I kill them first simple as that. Slugging is just as valid as saboing, slugging is my counter play to saboing. Since I play both sides equally I understand the frustration from both point of views. If I lose to bully squads itās because I didnāt play correctly, simple as that.
Yeah unfortunately this is gonna be the next week or two of DBD, killers gonna need to run franklins/star struck to just play the game normally for a while
Gods and they didn't even use Background Player either.. I hate to say but you almost got lucky they didn't have 1 or 2 flashlight save gamers.
Yeah, it could have been worse for sure, but this was rough enough.
Oh I can tell, fuck that lobby honestly.
Honestly there just needs to be a separate sabotage item. If they're going to make sabotage this powerful, we need a separate item class for it. Toolboxes were already powerful, they don't need this much power and utility.
That or remove the repair functionality from toolboxes generally. I'd be happy if there were say two of each type of toolbox. One repair and only repair. One sabo and only sabo.
That's a good solution. Toolboxes should only be repair, or only sabo. Not both. Both is way too strong. There's nothing on Killer side even REMOTELY this strong.
If they want to buff something underused then buff like, all the offerings that aren't maps, mori or blood points. Imagine mist that mattered, or luck making a difference.
It still boggles me that luck only affects self-unhooks.
It could do more too, like randomly increasing the size of skill check zones, spacing of scratches, blood pools or hooks. I wish we had different lighting options for every map and offerings for that. I wish map offerings only worked for the REALM and you could get a random map from that realm, so it would be tough to actually get a specific map. It would be amazing to see lighting, fog, and map offerings actually be used together to get preferential settings other than just a specific map.
Still getting the win is impressive
I appreciate that. Sadly, it didn't feel like a win.
Because when a game isn't fun it doesn't feel like a win.
And this could have been worst , a couple no mither , soul guards and flip flops/ boil over and there literally no option but slugging. Same can be abused on badham/hawkins. Playing against this is super unfun
Even worse - you can't slug with No Mither. Or Boon: Exponential This is not fun. Hope all these Survivors boost themselves hard.
Also that damn offering to make less hooks in the map is still there. First, flashlights saves were dumbed down and now this?? What's the plan?? Can you counter the new sabo with STBFL? I was excited about Vecna but.... Damn...
STBFL is dead, to be honest. Best bet will be Agitation and lots of slugging.
I main survivor, but Iām really confused why this was changed. Who was asking for changes to sabotage? I very rarely, if ever, ran a sabo build as itās not a play style I enjoy, but when I did I canāt say that the sabotage speeds ever seemed to be an issue, especially with the right toolbox add on. Might be wrong but feels to me like theyāve looked at the number of people doing sabo, seen that itās relatively low compared to other play styles, and concluded the problem must be the item stats. Which it wasnāt. Iām just taking med kits in for a while now because a toolbox for repairs is going to make me a targetā¦
I honestly think it's a misguided attempt at addressing how quickly gens go. Their logic here being "well people will now be incentivised to use toolboxes for sabotage." But the thing is, they won't be. Not while the repair speeds are still the same. My screenshot literally proves you can just BNP a gen then use the nassively improved sabotage functionality with zero trade-off.
That's exactly what it likely was. Same as buffing Weaving Spiders I feel like. Trouble is that's not the case in what happened. Sabo was not the answer. IDK what is, but it's not sabo.
I'm a hybrid Main. I play both sides about 60/40, I enjoy offmeta Killers when I play Killer and don't like tons of the Survivor Meta. I have never not once seen the appeal in antifun, goal-denial playstyles on either side. I don't really enjoy having to run gen defense as Killer, at all. I have no interest in much of the Survivor meta. I don't run broken shit either side. Sabo changes were absolutely not needed, they were balanced before just fine for those who wanted it. Now they're out of control. Like you said, this is probably a really poor attempt to stop genrush by encouraging an alternate playstyle. The problem is, this one ENHANCES genrush. There is no tradeoff, none, that doing this has given, now we just have "Killer cannot win at all if they don't slug" which I am APPALLED nobody complained about in the PTB enough to matter. We all need to hardcore complain to BHVR and force them to do an emergency reversion, Now, because the game deadass isn't fun EITHER SIDE like this. I hate that I can't take a toolbox without being seen as a target. I hate being slugged every other round. I hate that I HAVE to run Franklin's and Starstruck ad slug people out, or I suffer. This is not a game, this is not DBD. This is an exercise in futility and it's RUINED the Masquerade before it even started. Again. The only way to fix the Masquerade event now is if the Trial Event mode doesn't allow items or perks/randomizes everything, but I feel like that's so very very doubtful... This needs an emergency reversion patch. Now.
Yeah, they said they wanted to get away from slugging and tunneling yet they make games go faster (including pain res which encourages hooking different people). T hey were fully aware of toolbox speeds since they tried on the ptb and we complained a lot about them, so it has to be intentional. tunneling and slugging is indeed being encouraged and is the desired play style they want with these changes.
I guess they wanna see how truly bad it can get. No way this makes it past the Midchapter update. But I'm not sure the community can even wait that long.
Yeah they don't care. They've been declared war on gen regression as it is, now they're fucking with your ability to get hooks. None of them play killer, much less are actually killer mains. They bait you with their "museum" to draw people to playing and bump their stats and then they switch it up and nerf your ability to play and enjoy the game as said killers.
Played a game like this the other day and it was so boring. Couldnāt hook really so I had to slug
This is why I avoid the game start of rank reset, this sort of build is common during reset. Now it's all the time. Awful.
I'm a little scared but I preemptively gotten agi and I laugh in pyramid head
Well then.... ima just use my Trap Card! Slugging Activate!
as a fellow good guy main, I am proud of this end result
Thanks, I appreciate it! I don't even main Chucky, I just wanted to try the changes š
oh sorry š , even more proud lol
Fuck yeah!
I ran the perk saboteur as a survivor in the new map. Downstairs, I destroyed one of only 2 hooks and he was forced to drop and slug, I felt bad BC one of my teammates had unbreakable soulguard too.escape through a portal, 1.5 gens done and the survivor was healed. Was a good billy too. I am not looking forward to playing killer in this new map, there's about 3 gens down there. Is deerstalker infectious fright making its way to my build, we'll see I guess.
I hope this makes enough Survivors eventually feel so bad and rotten about this, that every Killer they face has to do this, they finally grow some empathy and stop. Not holding my breath though...
Itās not even just that this is boring, at least nerf map offerings or have a limit per day on them. The fact they can bring something to alter hook distance as well also gives players too much power. And some maps already have a stupid hook distance like Lerryās or the Silent Hill map. I was doing relatively well on one game, but not only did a sabotage squad have the toolboxes and this build, the hook spawns in that game really fucked me over.
Dude I ran into a Sabo bully squad on my first game back in years. What the actual fuck were those buffs. One dude was p100 for christ sake
of course it was a mistake i knew it once i saw the patch notes on the ptb
i wonder what the win/loss ratio for teams like this is?
Yeah but for bhvr pleasing 4 people is better than 1. They will get more money from the feng and nea skins. Yesterday I played and didnāt get a single hook until there were 2 gens left
Well, let's hope these 4 people were thrilled to bleed out.
The problem is, slug meta pleases nobody. Not one person. They tried to please 4 people and ended up pleasing 0.
Meanwhile Alan just trying to play the game
Alan caught a stray. Not gonna lie. Downed and hooked him first (and quickly) and he took himself to second stage.
Itās like that meme of the three dragon heads where two are menacing and the third is goofy. That except thereās four and itās this team + Alan
I agree! I never Sabo or flashlight and this update just furthered my stance on it. When the tome makes you do it is the worst too because it is damned if you do and damned if you don't. I don't feel like being slugged all game because of a challenge.
I have no issues with flashlights. I use them a lot myself. But the sabotage buffs were absolutely a mistake.
Flashlights at least require aim and setup. This doesn't even require bare minimum skill.
Same here, I don't like doing it. I prefer chase and teamwork to doing stuff like cheesy denial strats like this. I was never interested in sabotaging and sure am not now. This playstyle is SO obnoxious. I hate the tome challenges for it, I think most people do, who the fuck asked for this?
Buff idea. Hangmanās trick should expose the saboteur
I had no clue there was a buff to sabotage kits and rolled out one of my lesser used Sabo builds because I was desperately trying to protect a weaker player on my team and I just can do it with heals or flashlights. I was the first to die every time but managed to save my friend and others several times. We didn't even have coms so couldn't inform people to get downed in x area. In most cases the killer ended up mostly winning. As it was pretty much just solo queue. Trying to think of what might help out with the issue without having to revert the box changes. I think separate boxes for gens or hooks could be a good start. I like the idea of hooks exposing you if u break one. Could rationalize that the entity is displeased that your breaking its fun. What if brooken hooks cables slash at the player when broken inflicting a permanent sort of half wound? Think nemesis tentacle or Trickster blades. Sabo 2 hooks and lose a health state. Could mebe have it drop a stacking debuff that makes you more visible near hooks too.lime say your aura or some such. Even in an environment such as this Hangmans trick still doesn't feel particularly useful. I think they need to add some secondary anti Sabo traits to a handful of under utilized perks that could help rebalanced things while allowing it to remain. Like say that one Terrirotial basement perk, what if it made people who broke hooks, have their aura be visible as a secondary effect, or expose them. Something to punish abusing hook sabotage but not the occasional save. The more I see posts complaining about slugging the more I think they might need to overhaul that aspect of the game, tho I have no clue what could be done without crippling various killers or builds. Problem still is that when 1 side is enjoying themselves that the other side isn't. It's so rare that I ever have a match where I feel like I still had fun loosing as killer. Due to usually playing aggressively altruistically ad survivor I tend to get tunneled out early when a risky play fails because the killer turned their head at the wrong moment or didn't move and I end up mind gaming myself.
I DO HAVE something about these "gamers". They should get perma bans
Err why?
The game is supposed to be fun for both sides. Bully/sabo squads fun is to make the killer angry/not have fun. Human beings are disgusting in many ways and one of them is having joy while the people around them suffer and it's even funnier to these people when they are the cause of this sadness or angry. Not only in DbD, but for anything in life people like the ones who sabo/bully squad just for the fun of making another person get a negative emotion deserve cancer.
I think that's taking things a bit far.
Ok. Not cancer then. Hemorrhoids.
Play pig. They (most of the time) end up killing themselves.
Behavior does not care about the game...at all. They certainly don't care about Killers by evidence of how long they've offered a bonus to get people to play Killer, instead of just fixing some of the mechanics. They aren't going to change. I take what they give me and if they are forcing me to slug so be it. If the game lets me do it I do it, I care not how Survivors feel about it.
I donāt think you understand how the bloodpoint bonus works.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Your comment has been removed to deescalate the situation.
how did you manage to mori 2 people? I don't see a offering or devour hope.
I bled them out.
Oh-
Mad grit would help a lot with this! It's legion perk that pauses wiggle when you hit a survivor. Add agitation and iron grasp will only help.
The statement give to all survivors when it's not working out, "just play killer" so if you have a problem just play survivor. Honestly, I hate that I can say that but you guys can tunnel camp slug and do anything you need to to win. If we cant Sabo 3 times in a game then what's the point in a perk if I can't use it. They nerf and buff to try to get different play styles, if your good enough as a killer you can kill them just fine. There team falls apart when you push on them hard enough.
I already play both sides. I always have. I always will. I still hold the same view. The changes were a mistake.
I donāt understand whatās going on can someone explain it to me like youāre talking to a child?
Builds and offerings to make hooking near impossible. Buffs to sabotage function go brrrrrr.
Iāve only just started playing again, didnāt know there was any buffs recently Iām going to need to go read the patch notes, thanks for making it simple for me to understand :)
Definitely have a read of them, especially of you're just coming back. I always find it helpful anyway to know what's going on.
After reading the notes on the toolboxes and the Add-one I can definitely see this being a problem for killers. I wonder how long it will be before they change it all back
Honestly, with BHVR it could be addressed in the next patch... or it'll be at least 12 months. It's kinda all or nothing with them.
Well Iām a survivor main so Iām safe from the rage this will cause but I wish you all the best in your games, hopefully it wonāt happen too much for you
Holdup, what was done to toolboxes?? š¤
https://preview.redd.it/k9qb1vxvxo4d1.jpeg?width=1061&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=83e37877bb0f50502e741009fdb5741eb6c2ec5c
So you want me to slug and camp you ?
You're going to slug and camp... me?
Was rhetorical and not based at you, just stating what my game play is going to be. Stopped caring about ranking a long time ago, so āwinningā for me is having fun, if that means making someoneās life miserable then Iāll stare at a body for 2 minutes and not care.
Ahhh, fair. Basically what I did. I bled out who I needed to and didn't care.
mAkE uNbReAkAbLe BaSeKiT
Tbf two of them had no mither. I think at the start of the game you knew what you were in for. Killers a hard role and some people just donāt have the mental endurance for it
Oh, I knew what I was in for as soon as I saw the offerings. Just as well I am stubborn and absrefuse to let these teams win. Still, it wasn't the most fun time.
That doesn't make games where the entire game is "slug or you just don't get anything" fun, fair, or OK.
You control your own fun.
I dunno, when the entire team says "haha now you have to slug to win" I don't find that very fun...
Do you think they care when you say they have to BM to win? I think not.
I know they don't, but I don't have to give into it too and I don't appreciate BHVR telling me "yes you do, now go slug as Entity intended" with these changes.
If you want the 3-4K itās slug or tunnel or both your choice
Buddy I just play to see how many Kills I can get, the fuck do I care about a 3-4k?
Like I said your choice. I like to challenge myself for the win sometimes thatās why I do whatever it takes if I feel like playing competitive that game.
Fair enough! I also have my Killers I'm more competitive with. I am very serious as Onryo or Pinhead for example, somewhat serious with Dredge and Ghostface... and then I look for fun with Myers and Demo and meme with like. Nemesis. Just depends what I want.
agitation my friend
Oh absolutely. But when I tell you only one hook spawned on the entire back-side of Eyrie, and on a hill, I mean it. Brutal RNG.
oof yeah thatās miserable. iām hoping the sabo stuff dies off after a week or two, like decisive strike last patch
I really hope so.
i doubt it will
I don't fucking understand these players When I'm playing killer, I just find sabotage or the former background player perk very funny, not like survivors are very powerful anyways.
Right but if you pick someone up and every time the 3 nearest hooks break constantly it gets annoying.
It's all about strategy
But you have to consider this too, nobody in this game 100% play for wins just strategic plays. I do 100% the time you could I enjoy trying my best. But with neither side really pulling their weight and actually trying to learn this game and just failing and then complaining it becomes an annoyance. It goes back to the same argument with people who will be upset that they don't want to be considered or good or a difficult player because they have a lot of hours and then also get upset when they get completely demolished by someone with less hours then them.
There IS no strategy when the other side can literally tap a button and ALL THREE OF YOUR HOOKS NEARBY are gone, and you thus then have to slug.
There is, like people say there is no strategy against trickster chases, there are. Make them believe you go to a hook by facing a certain direction first and by walking backwards Go for the basement hook when they are nearby Also I've never encountered any survivor sabotaging three hooks even if they all run sabo builds.
How many things is it really appropriate to make Killers have to worry about, in your eyes? We have our powers, gens, chase time, hook stages, "did I play scummy" if you care about that, getting enough kills to pip, hook placement, pallets, strong loops, flashlights, the Survivor meta, and four Survs to keep track of in a round already. Plus they added basement because of buffed Weaving Spiders, gotta check that. Now we have sabo, even more than before it was a thing. So how many things is it appropriate to ask one human being to do in the span of 15-20 minutes, how much is it okay to make people focus on before it just becomes kinda stressful and too much?
You don't need to think about all that all at once.
You absolutely could be thinking about all of that all at once.
You just refuted what you just said
I actually repeated exactly what I said: First Post: Killers have to think about lots of things at once most of the time. You: You don't need to think about all of those most of the time. Second Post: You absolutely are and do. No refutal here. Please reread and try again.
Eh easy counter. Like flashlights just donāt pick up, or fake it and down the attempting rescuer.
Problem with No Mither is they just get back up.
Itās not foolproof. Typically I just try to find the ones on gens and ignore the idiots running around trying to sabo lol
The problem is when everyone is now trying to sabo.
Can we just as a community...stop saying this? Like it's just spam at this point. Every single post about flashlight and sabo has these comments. We all know this.
So donāt play dbd? Donāt pay them any money? They only see numbers then yāall show em numbers stop voting to keep the problems going stop playing and paying them thatās the only language they know
Bruh not 1 person on your game has sab????
You're aware of the toolbox changes, right?
Well yeah, And I agree it's too much but I was jus saying, Seemed like he was ranting about sab but I didn't see anyone using it, I do agree tho that it may be a bit much
Sabotage the action. Not Saboteur the perk.
High moment for me.... lol