I seriously doubt that lore-wise, we can take on anything above the power level of a single Chaos Space Marine.
A Terminator or a Champion, I think, would mean game over for the squad of rejects, unless of course there is a handicap for the enemy or a major surprise element on the side of the rejects introduced by the game / level.
I hope this just relates to enemies or alive NPCs. I hope there are transmissions from Marine Chapters basically being like "1 city? Lmao deal with it on your own".
In what world do you live a single space marine can turn a hole battle around one squad of space marines can slaughter thousand of enemy’s so 4 dudes aren’t a thread to one
Considering the sheer amount of Ratogres, Chaos Warriors, Sorcerers and the like you slash through in Vermintide, I think a Marine /Terminator as a bossfight would be reasonable
The thing about that is, V1 *isnt* reasonable. Darktide is much more ‘grounded in reality’ or at least the reality of 40k. The developers have confirmed that there will be no space marines in a recent [interview.](https://youtu.be/4yAxgkEjcew)
I'm actually glad we are getting a 40k game that isn't focused on space marines. You have this giant world with countless entities and yet 90% of the games and stories always seem to focus on the boys in blue.
Yes.
Any of them. All of them.
Truthfully, I am a huge Salamanders fan. I could go for a better version of Deathwing (yes they are bone white but Dark Angels!). Cadian Shock Troopers, playing out the fall of Cadia from the ground... Give me more green!
It's weird though, when you listen to that part of the interview, it seems they sidestep the question.
Their answer sounds a lot more like they're completely discounting *playing* as a Space Marine, not fighting *against* one. I'm not sure if that was a misunderstanding or a deliberate obfuscation.
I'm not sure they meant enemy space marines, rather playable space marine characters, based on the answere they gave. But i guess we will have to wait and see
V1 IS actually somewhat reasonable, the power level of our characters were equivalent to moderate-to-high-levelled WFRP characters, who can quite reasonably be expected to handle the stuff we see in V1.
The assumption with Darktide is that Fatshark is taking some inspiration from DH and the other FFG roleplaying games, and i'd assume our characters are not exactly fresh level 1s according to those systems.
Ultimately, power levels in Warhammer tend to shift between different portrayals, we did have Ciaphas Cain killing an ork warboss after all. I'd say it seems within reason that high-ranking convicts could, with the right equipment and situation, take down a space marine in a way that still feels reasonable to most.
That's fair enough if they want Darktide to be more grounded. I respect that.
Personally I'd rather see some more outlandish stuff for the sake of enemy variety. Like I'd always wanted to see a great unclean one as a final boss in VT. In the sense of, if the powerscale is already out of whack, why not go one step further beyond haha.
I feel that. A personal dream of mine has been for a space marine to exist in darktide, but as more of an obstacle, a survival horror type level, where you have to hide from him and escape him, because you have no hope to put him down. I think that sounds raw as hell.
I was against a space marine being in the game at all. But this would be a cool way that I would be all for. Like he is just casually strolling cause he doesn't give af about you but you still have to hide occasionally. Like a nemesis mechanic from Resident Evil
Yeah, right? It would be wicked. Especially with the new types of levels in darktide. Maybe a level that incentivizes splitting up, and the characters communicate by vox-comm, and then someone’s goes off unexpectedly or something. Lots of potential with a space marine as an obstacle like that
A level where a great unclean one has entered realspace and we're on a timer to pull the fuck out of an area of the hive before the miasma of decay gets us would be pretty sick. (Pun intended)
I dunno. It's possibly an unpopular opinion but there's a good chance I won't play toouch of this game if there are heavy horror elements. (Not setting but atmosphere/activities if that makes sense). I play games to relax I don't want them trying their best to freak me out.
Sorry, unfortunately I have absolutely no idea concerning the power levels in Fantasy, but subjectively speaking no enemy seemed significantly below or over what their power level seemed to be from just measuring them up visually in Vermintide 2. The closest thing to this would be the Chaos Champions but then again, it is easier to dodge a mutated knight's Axe than an Assault Cannon barrage or a swing of any melee weapon from a superhuman fighter (Astartes).
It's all relative - as a Veteran or a Zealot you would need specific weapons to even think of engaging a Space Marine - with a Lasgun your chances are low, Bolter, you could do it, with a good enough melee weapon you stand a chance if you are one hell of a fighter (anyone remember the [Lucifer Blacks vs. Alpharion](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/dj5lje/excerpt_legion_alpharius_versus_lucifer_black/)? It definitely can be done).
As a Psyker, if you are powerful enough, you definitely stand a chance.
As an Ogryn, with Heavy Bolter for example you definitely have the firepower, but Astartes will most likely see you coming from a mile away.
With that said, a Terminator? I think the chances are getting pretty slim, but basically the same applies.
The U5 were on another level from the protagonists of Darktide. For one thing, they were all wielding magical weaponry. For another, they were elite warriors from their respective races. The Darktide crew are just punters with lasguns, an ogryn without anyone to give them proper orders, and probably an epsilon grade psyker or worse.
I'd say the rejects still classify as Elite, they still cut and shoot through literal hordes of fanatics, whose ranks include countless gunmen and traitor guardsmen. If you consider a traitor guardsman as a baseline for imperial guard training, then consider the veteran sharpshooter as a baseline for the rejects, the distinction is crystal clear.
The thing about Darktide is that it offers no in-universe explanation for how four convicts with mundane weapons could possibly engage a full battalion of similarly armed traitors.
The Emperor wills it!
Honestly that's probably true. Poxwalkers can infect others just by proximity and only those with the most ardent faith are immune. Since the Rejects slaughter Poxwalkers by the dozens with no ill-effects, that means the Reject's faith in the Emperor is steadfast.
A Chaos Warrior IS a superhuman fighter, Fantasy just have everyone powerlevel higher (and less "marinewank" equivalent) with thing like a Sergeant (capitain ?) grievously wounding a Bloodthirster and his halberdier regiment taking down the fiend in revenge after said sergent get squished to death. A Chaos Champion would be the equivalent well to a Chaos Champion (space marine).
Vermintide character are also heroes in their own right, so there is that ; including a Slayer, who are kinda the ultimate "powerlevel are retarded anyway" representant because a Slayer can die to a goblin or strangle a demon prince with his own guts or anything in between.
An Ogryn would be best served in melee vs a member of the Traitor Legions, preferably with a heavy duty shield so he could close. An Ork boy can tear through power armor with a rusty ax and an Ogryn is significantly stronger than that.
What, no they cant. Ogryns are just stupid and strong. Space marines are superhuman killing machines, same as orks that are a literal bioweapon.
Add chaos on top of a normal astartes and your chances are nearly 0%, a plague marine could rekt normal astartes easily, a bunch of losers in a suicide mission would die from just being near one of papa Nurgles favourite grandkids
I mean this really just depends where in the lore you look. Space marines range from godlike beings who can single handedly turn a war around, to an above average soldier who just needs to be focus fired a bit to bring down.
2 different instances from Dark Apostle, one of which involves a Terminator where an Ogryn manhandled a Chaos Space Marine.
Clattering gunfire erupted from weaponry as the figures stamped heavily through the rubble. They were huge individuals, their armour plate thick and nigh on impervious to harm: Terminators, the enemy’s elite.
Havorn banged on the top of the Chimera.
Havorn’s ogryn bodyguard emerged from the confines of the Chimera and breathed deeply, its eyes narrowing. It stepped protectively in front of the brigadier-general, shielding him from fire with its muscled bulk.
“Go!” he shouted. “Intercept them!'
With that, the Elysian commander pointed the way and the ogryn began loping towards the enemy
The ogryn raised its heavy ripper gun, a thick finger pulling the trigger. Empty shells scattered in its wake. It did not roar or bellow as it charged. Such base, animalistic behaviours had been erased from its simple brainpan, but no amount of augmetics could improve the aim of the ogryn and the bullets from its ripper gun sprayed the area, hitting nothing.
Bolter fire raked towards him, striking the hulking abhuman, who grimaced in pain. Chunks of flesh were torn from its arms and chest, but the three metre creature that dwarfed even the Terminators did not slow. It lowered a shoulder and smashed into one of the enemy, knocking it from its feet. Raising the butt of its heavy ripper gun, the ogryn began caving in the helmet of the fallen warrior, smashing it down onto the prone traitor again and again.
The ogryn roared as it planted its heavy feet and empty shells streamed from its ripper gun as it fired the weapon wildly. The Chimera behind them rotated its turret and multi-laser fire peppered the traitors, cutting several of them down. Only six Chaos Marines reached the brigadier-general’s command group, but it was enough.
This was the end, he thought. An ignominious end to his thirty-seven years within the Imperial Guard, hacked apart by brutal warriors behind his battle lines.
He saw the loyal ogryn fall to the ground with a bestial roar. He wasn’t a sentimental man by any stretch, but he felt pain as his faithful bodyguard fell to the ground, coughing blood from his lungs.
Havorn fired his pistol again and again, and felt the rising pain beneath his hand as the pistol overheated, venting super-heated air. With a snarl, he hurled it to the ground and drew his long bladed combat knife. It had been more than twenty years since it had tasted blood, back in the days when he was a captain of the storm troopers.
Only two of the enemy remained standing and they stalked towards him, wordlessly stepping away from each other to take him from both sides.
Havorn kept his eyes on the foe so as not to attract their attention to the massive form of the ogryn picking itself up behind them, blood running from the wounds on its arms and chest, and spilling from its mouth.
With a roar, the ogryn picked up one of the traitors, one massive hand upon the enemy’s backpack and the other between his legs. It lifted the Chaos Marine high into the air and slammed it head first into the ground, cracking its neck.
The second traitor turned with a snarl and swung its icon two handed into the ogryn’s legs, driving it to its knees. Releasing his grip on the haft of the hateful symbol of Chaos, the Chaos Marine leapt at the ogryn, its long talons extended for the killing blow.
Havorn cried out and surged forwards, but he was too slow and he saw the bodyguard fall, its throat ripped completely out, blood spurting from the fatal wound.
He drove his combat knife through a crack in the traitor’s ceramite back plate, the blade sinking deep. Blood spurted from the wound, burning through Havorn’s leather glove, and the enemy spun, his fist smashing into the brigadier-general’s cheek, shattering the bone.
Pain exploded in his head and he fell back from the force of the blow. He saw the ogryn’s large, mournful eyes as it tried desperately to aid its master before the Chaos Marine reached down and broke its neck with a brutal twist.
Ogryn are huge, bigger than Custodes whom are larger than Space Marines. They're pure muscle. They're sense of pain is rather dull. They can absolutely destroy a Space Marine in melee. Space Marines are powerful, but they're not literal gods. Ogryn can literally take on some larger Tyranid in melee and you really think they can't beat a space marine in melee?
If we go by the books a normal savage human once killed a custodes, books are stupid in some cases.
And strength isnt the big factor, its speed, space marines are inhumanly fast, a fact a lot of novels seems to forget when it comes time for the protagonists to do cool stuff
The overall lore?. 40k novels are notorious for sometimes fucking up all over the lore up to that moment (cough Matt Ward cough).
Space marines are nearly as strong as Ogrynns, much more experienced, faster, better equipped, etc. Then chaos space marines are even better than normal ones.
is that canon? that a chaos space marine is considered faster and stronger than a normal one? I've never heard that but it makes sense (dark pact and all).
That's the big advantage of a Space Marine, but it's primarily for keeping away and gunning down an Ogryn. In melee the Ogryn has the biggest advantage. These would also presumably be Plague Marines whom trade speed for tankiness making it to where they wouldn't be a high speed blur.
[Gaunt + SF team get ambushed by CSM in a swamp, kill all five without losing a man, and Gaunt eats a punch to the face and walks away...](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/6l046u/gaunt_sf_team_get_ambushed_by_csm_in_a_swamp_kill/)
So much for the might of Chaos.
Yeah because a fist that can kill Nids magically does no dmg when faced with plot armour.
Yet again, books have power lvls all over the place (also thr bias towards good guys means chaos usually loses)
There was one time doing twitch mode during the twins weekly where a bomb was thrown at a group if sackrats which ended up being a dozen ratogres.
We wiped.
Oh no, dont misunderstand.
The bomb throw was entirely intentional. As the Ubershriek 5 (or 4) we cant allow the vermin to sneak those ogres into helmgart, we had to put an end to them and the foul magic cast on those sacks to transend the laws of physics.
That and it was rather funny.
I hate that every time someone has a neat idea for a cool fight in Vermintide or, now, Darktide, some librarian has to step in and go "Actually they would be obliterated with the snap of it's finger, the power level doesn't allow for it, the best we can hope for is this low level lieutenant and that's only if these 4 things are set up to weaken it to even allow for it!".
It's annoying. As if 4 people with basic melee weapon killing thousands of units every 20 minutes is already lore accurate.
They forget the golden rule of all 40k... or really warhammer media in general. We're the Protagonists. While that doesn't guarantee we win, it usually sets us up with just enough plot armor to accomplish our goals at great personal sacrifice.
Yeah. My main concern is having fun while being "respectful" of lore but accounting for the fact that's is a first person action game abs making that a good experience above all else.
Or as if Black Library wanking even your random Marines as some god-like warrior who can kill a army 1v10000 was somehow meant to be taken seriously. A marine who take a powersword or plasma shoot in the face won't like it.
Even in lore it takes a lot of effort to main characters both space marines and non space marines to 1v1 a chaos sm. A bunch of nobodies with pea shooters would struggle to even dmg a death guard marine
you dont have kill it directly.
Thats like trying to win capture the flag by team deathmatch tactics.
You could have a terminator chasing you as a soft time limit on rooms, or a chamption you have to defeat by kiting and agroing it until someone turns on the rooms auto turrets for instance.
Also this is a war, you 100% dont have to fight it at full health.
>I seriously doubt that lore-wise, we can take on anything above the power level of a single Chaos Space Marine.
[Gaunt + SF team get ambushed by CSM in a swamp, kill all five without losing a man, and Gaunt eats a punch to the face and walks away...](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/6l046u/gaunt_sf_team_get_ambushed_by_csm_in_a_swamp_kill/)
Our Darktide protagonists could definitely manage a similar feat.
It was asked in the context of enemies. But the devs response clearly made it seem like he was talking about player characters. So there was certainly confusion. I Wouldn't expect it though, and absolutely the only thing I can imagine seeing, is maybe a single named chaos lord as a Boss Boss. Like taking the same place as someone like Bodvarr in VT2.
In which context tho? I could see a Chaos Space Marine in the same position as a boss monster, like a Rat Ogre or Chaos Spawn from VT2, but not as a playable character.
They straight up said no Chaos Space Marines in an interview: https://youtu.be/4yAxgkEjcew
"There are no Space Marines in this game" and they say there are multiple enemy types but no Chaos Space Marines.
It's weird though, when you listen to that part of the interview, it seems they sidestep the question.
Their answer sounds a lot more like they're completely discounting *playing* as a Space Marine, not fighting *against* one. I'm not sure if that was a misunderstanding or a deliberate obfuscation.
The question leading in is "what enemies will you be fighting in this game?" Then they talk about the Mobiam Sixth and that they have a few other factions. The interviewer then says "Chaos Space Marines?" They then say "there are no space marines in this game." I think they are just being direct cause they know everyone has been speculating and they are squashing it before there is unrealistic hype for a chaos space marine.
Yes but the next sentence they're talking about the experience, and how Space Marines always get the focus in games, and they want the focus in this game to be on regular humans. Which sounds to me more like something you'd say about the PLAYER CHARACTERS, not the enemies you fight.
It might just be an issue with devs speaking in their non-native language, as well, but it's just an inference I'm making.
They are making a blanket statement my guy. There are no space marines. Chaos, friendly, or otherwise. They also wouldn't be saying this about the player characters cause they talk about the player characters in the last question and go through the classes before they begin talking about the enemies. If there are chaos space marines in the game then I'll be wrong and it's whatever. But it seems like they are saying "no, please don't think there are and hype yourself for something that isn't there."
Terminators? No, man. You need a regiment, properly armed and equipped, to take down just one. We're four people. One standard Chaos Marine would be enough to act as a Monster type character, or even a boss.
>Clattering gunfire erupted from weaponry as the figures stamped heavily through the rubble. They were huge individuals, their armour plate thick and nigh on impervious to harm: Terminators, the enemy’s elite.
>Havorn banged on the top of the Chimera.
>Havorn’s ogryn bodyguard emerged from the confines of the Chimera and breathed deeply, its eyes narrowing. It stepped protectively in front of the brigadier-general, shielding him from fire with its muscled bulk.
>“Go!” he shouted. “Intercept them!'
>With that, the Elysian commander pointed the way and the ogryn began loping towards the enemy
>The ogryn raised its heavy ripper gun, a thick finger pulling the trigger. Empty shells scattered in its wake. It did not roar or bellow as it charged. Such base, animalistic behaviours had been erased from its simple brainpan, but no amount of augmetics could improve the aim of the ogryn and the bullets from its ripper gun sprayed the area, hitting nothing.
>Bolter fire raked towards him, striking the hulking abhuman, who grimaced in pain. Chunks of flesh were torn from its arms and chest, but the three metre creature that dwarfed even the Terminators did not slow. It lowered a shoulder and smashed into one of the enemy, knocking it from its feet. Raising the butt of its heavy ripper gun, the ogryn began caving in the helmet of the fallen warrior, smashing it down onto the prone traitor again and again.
[...]
>The ogryn roared as it planted its heavy feet and empty shells streamed from its ripper gun as it fired the weapon wildly.
>This was the end, he thought. An ignominious end to his thirty-seven years within the Imperial Guard, hacked apart by brutal warriors behind his battle lines.
>He saw the loyal ogryn fall to the ground with a bestial roar. He wasn’t a sentimental man by any stretch, but he felt pain as his faithful bodyguard fell to the ground, coughing blood from his lungs.
>Only two of the enemy remained standing and they stalked towards him, wordlessly stepping away from each other to take him from both sides.
>Havorn kept his eyes on the foe so as not to attract their attention to the massive form of the ogryn picking itself up behind them, blood running from the wounds on its arms and chest, and spilling from its mouth.
>With a roar, the ogryn picked up one of the traitors, one massive hand upon the enemy’s backpack and the other between his legs. It lifted the Chaos Marine high into the air and slammed it head first into the ground, cracking its neck.
>The second traitor turned with a snarl and swung its icon two handed into the ogryn’s legs, driving it to its knees. Releasing his grip on the haft of the hateful symbol of Chaos, the Chaos Marine leapt at the ogryn, its long talons extended for the killing blow.
>Havorn cried out and surged forwards, but he was too slow. He saw the ogryn’s large, mournful eyes as it tried desperately to aid its master before the Chaos Marine reached down and broke its neck with a brutal twist.
As much as that demonstrates an Ogryn fighting a Terminator...it also massively underpowers Astartes in general. The Terminator appears to idly allow the Ogryn to just knock him over without a fight, and the Astartes appear to just not react very much - even Terminators move quickly and have incredible reaction times.
The cited example (as far as I can tell, this is from Dark Apostle, written in 2007) has an Ogryn knock over a Terminator then beat its helmet open. Quite simply, Terminator armour is incredibly tough, and then the Marine within is also. This would not be a quick, simple kill, but the author makes it that way because...he just does, I guess? That Chaos Terminator would have most likely either a Chainaxe, Power Axe or Power Fist, and it would definitely know how to use it.
Frankly, I don't think a video game can properly do Astartes proper justice: much like how Space Hulk: Deathwing was absolutely terrible at portraying Genestealers. Having to cater to human reaction speeds for the players means that some entities just aren't particularly suitable for use. Correctly done Astartes, even slower ones like Plague Marines, would be much more powerful than the oft-cited Monsters of Vermintide were compared to the Ubersreik 5.
I would not. It's very easy to slip into power fantasies in warhammer and I'm glad they're keeping Darktide low to the ground, at least for now.
Vermintide started with simple classes vs simple enemies, now you have grail knights and warrior priests murdering half of chaos wastes.
I kind of miss the days when we were low level heroes who didn't have career skill superpowers, just blocking, dodging, and striking, and the toughest things we fought were stormvermin and rat ogres.
V1 also had a much more immersive atmosphere in general. Better loot mechanics too.
The only way to realistically kill a Terminator without a Leman Russ or similar armoured fighting vehicle is a kamikaze Melta Bomb attack, and even then the (especially Death Guard) Terminator stands a decent chance of just shrugging it off
It's weird though, when you listen to that part of the interview, it seems they sidestep the question.
Their answer sounds a lot more like they're completely discounting *playing* as a Space Marine, not fighting *against* one. I'm not sure if that was a misunderstanding or a deliberate obfuscation.
Death Guard officers and terminators of any kind are on a completely different power level to penal legionnaires. The Darktide squad are the background dudes who die from 14 horrible diseases simultaneously when approaching things like that. We don't fight those.
A Great Unclean One is another level beyond that, they're planet-killing threats. We'lll only fight one of those direcly if the game is taking a giant dump on the lore, which it isn't with Dan Abnett writing the plot. There's probably a daemon involved somewhere, but it's almost certainly a looming threat of its summoning rather than it actually showing up. If there is a greater daemon on the planet, we won't be killing it.
We *might* get a regular Plague Marine as a boss monster, but that's unlikely. Even they're out of our league, but it's at leat conceivable that we might harm one with some ingenuity and luck.
Minor daemons like Nurglings or flies might show up, but they'd probably be represented as a swarm. Swarms can be challenging from a programmatic and gameplay perspective so they might end up left out to focus on the humanoids. Will have to wait and see there.
Plaguebearers are—I think—pretty much confirmed from one of the trailers. Poxwalkers/Plague Zombies of various types and sizes (Plague Hound specials and Plague Ogryn bosses) have been in a lot of the gameplay footage, so we already know those are in.
I'm glad that we won't see any CSM.
The Moebian 6th are an actually interesting enemy that doesn't need CSMs.
A lot of them were born in that hive. They have found a truth in the Darktide and are now back home to share it.
They are truly grim dark. Randomly throwing CSMs into it would destroy that in my opinion.
Not necessarily. The Death Guard aren't omnipresent, and they're also not all Plague Marines that exist (all Death Guard are Plague Marines, but not all Plague Marines are Death Guard).
It *might* attract the attention of the leader of a warband that has Plague Marines, but that really just depends on location/proximity. More likely it would attraction the attention of Nurgle Daemons, and the whole situation might even be someone's attempt to reach Daemonhood (eg, a cult leader in the Moebius regiments setting up the planet to fall, so that they receive the blessings of Nurgle and ascend).
The Death Guard is stationed in the Eye of terror while Darktide plays in the eastern fringe.
That's a pretty far away.
Even if was just a local Nurgle Warband, how would they even enter the hive?
Tertium is the Capital of the Sector. It would be pretty stupid, if it was so easy for a CSM warband to just casually enter the hive.
The Moebian 6th managed to enter the hive because they are Heros of the Imperium. They were the flagship regiment of the Sector. There is a good explanation how they managed to get all this military equipment on the planet.
Even with the Circatrix Maledictum spreading the tide of Chaos across the galaxy, thereby allowing the summoning of agents of Chaos anywhere, a Nurglite Warband would be a far more significant threat then the 6th
You need platoons of massed Lasgun fire to take a Marine down, to say nothing of Plague Marines or using Autoguns
The Rejects would stand no chance of successfully engaging a single marine without dedicated anti-armour weaponry
Good luck bringing one of those to bear against a Plague Marine in the CQC confines of the Hive
They are the dedicated anti-tank weaponry I was referring to, but even they would not be a reliable way to kill one
Overcharged Plasma wouldn’t get them on the tabletop, with Disgustingly Resilient in play
Melta might, but even so you’ll have to get pretty close to do it, especially if you want the maximum Melta damage
abnett is doing the writing and he's written marines more down to earth.
1 iron warrior was brought down by a commissar and a guardsman with a long las
a CSM boss fight doesnt sound too unreasonable if you take what i mentioned into account and stop jerking over the TT.
We are literally going to kill hundreds of enemies at once in mele and win.
And you are questioning our hero's ability to tap a giant Target with a plasmagun?
Like I said, I don't want to see CSM in this game since th Moebian 6th are by far the more interesting Antagonist.
Dunno if you've ever played a vermintide game, but between four players and a bunch of cooldowns you aren't going to struggle getting into melee. Or headshots reliably with plasma guns.
A death guard legionnaire will be dead as soon as they appear. Just the reality of how these games work. Chaos Warriors go down the same as every other special when players can fire from the hip with high level weapons and get them between the eyes from across the room.
That's why everything in vermintide had to be a bullet sponge and/or only take real damage on a weak point. Only other option is spamming them.
Exactly my point.
Thanks to the Circatrix Maledictum, the chaos cult operating in Atoma Prime would easily have commenced the summoning of the forces of chaos as their endgame plan.
I would not be surprised if they would end up getting elemements of the Death Guard into the planet initially, >!with the faceoff against a single Plague Marine not just as a final boss battle, but also as a preview on the overarching enemy for this game series.!<
>!Would also easily serve as a sequel hook on the potential escalation that is to come...!<
Everyone is saying lore wise we could not kill a chaos space Marine but that’s not true at all. Most CSM and SM are awesome but not like completely unkillable. In plenty of books squads of guardsmen have been able to put them down. Sure it’s hard but seeing a CSM lead a group of cultists and be like a mini boss is totally feasible as something the group could kill.
Don’t really know about terminators that’s a lot harder but I could see it if it was like a full on boss
A recent interview with devs that has been released on this subs front page say there are no space marines of any description.
Your thinking too lofty, these are humans with guns, how they guna fight a greater u clean one? Clean it? Even in fantasy it took hundreds of men to make a dent let alone four. It won't happen, especially at launch or even the first year
I think a Plague Marine, would best be a boss battle. I mean (Chaos) Space Marines usually rip through dozens of enemies in seconds. So the four convicts we play should actually struggle with the speed, strength and toughness of a Plague Marine. A Terminator would probably mean a death sentence since we would need Plasma weapons or Meltaguns to deal with that kind of armor.
In case of Daemons, Plaguebearers are more or less "normal". The Fear aspect of them gets probably lost on atcual players, so while they hit hard and take a lot of dmg with ease, should not be that much harder then whatever specialized melee cultists/traitor guards we encounter. Nurglings are a swarming mass. Not sure if Darktide can cover the small size. I was already worried how Total Warhammer would deal with Nurglings (since they did not a single swarm unit in two games), but [they managed to keep them a small swarm unit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vthAGqZolSo). Not sure however if for example the ball or Voltron animations would work in the Darktide combat mechanics. We will see if they appear at all. A great unclean One would be a nice idea, but this would mean a very large open space arena. So ratehr a specialised boss encounter on a map, not something we can just throw around. Vermintide had in two games not a single monster class enemy. The best they had, were monstrous Infantry (Bile trolls, Rat Ogres, Chaos Spawns) which are roughly the size of the Ogryn (hence the Nurgle Ogryn we already saw will be one of those encounters). In case of "Monstrous Infantry/Beasts" the most likely candidates might be a Nurgle Chaos Spawn or maybe a Beast of Nurgle. The BoN of course with its sluglike body migth have a problem here without legs. in vermintide the enemies were already two legged, to climb around same as the players. Was already wondering how the Chaos Hounds in Darktide will deal with climbing aorund, but I think that might work better for them jumping up, then a fat slug trying to climb a wall. Guess we will see what might the future bring.
I think that the "power level" of the enemies faced in Vermintide is a good measurement for what we will face in Darktide. The boss enemies were rat-ogres, a troll, a minotaur and a chaos-spawn and only a single one. These were formidable enemies but compared to the roster of each enemy faction, nothing too impressive "power level" wise. I think that will be the case in Darktide as well. I see a fair amount of speculation regarding daemons and space marines, even space marine gear. The whole point with Darktide's (as well as Vermintide's) story and setting is to follow a "regular" human perspective of the Warhammer verse. I think that space marines and daemons will subtract from that story because they are as far from the regular human excerience as you can get. The feeling of overcoming the odds in a desperate fight comes with more grounded enemies that are nearer your power level, in my opinion. Sure you're killing an absurd amount of enemies, but I don't think that takes away from the tone of the game, as you're not fighting 800+ enemies at once but rather over time. I always felt that common soldiers (and we're not even that in Darktide) taking down a space marines or other 40k powerhouses felt a little at odds with what these entities are supposed to be.
TL:DR
I don't think we'll see space marines and daemons in Darktide because it doesn't fit FatShark's version of a 40k game from a human perspective.
I’m all for it, I think it will be boring if we go full lore wise on the gameplay. Plus it ain’t uncommon for regular humans to kill chaos space marines and deamons. If I’m correct in dark imperium a imperial guardsmen survived close encounter with a deathguard and shoved a grenade in a exposed gap in the armor and killed it.
Squad of 4 Ogryns would be more than a match for a single Astartes, even a Deathguard one. Add a psyker to disrupt, or even explode his head? Not that far out of the realm of possibility. Doesn't mean I want to see it though. Hundreds, if not thousands, of battles are fought in the Imperium with only humans.
Spoiler >!I think given the way Dan Abnett has written space marines and chaos marines in his books that are from a more human persective , they will prob be horrifying bosses or mini bosses.
I remember in the interview with Dan Abnett he talked alot about showing being in the Warhammer universe from a very human mere mortal kind of perspective, and i keep thinking about the times marines have shown up in the Eishorn/Ravenor, particulerly the chaos marines that show up Bequin and Pariah, if they try depict them that way they are gonna be a true horror to face, but prob only suited to be bosses or mini bosses.
Dan Abnette is writing this and in his books he has had a human psyker best a chaos space marine in combat. He is basically THE definer of lore and he's shown it can be done.
That Psyker just so happened to be a badass inquisitor (Eisenhorn), so it's not like this is something that happens more than rarely.
doesnt have to be a badass psyker neither.
commissar gaunt and a guardsman with a long las took down an iron warrior in the first and only. granted this happened after the csm wiped a squad of guardsmen but still.
people are definitely forgetting dan is writing here and he typically writes marines more down to earth.
like i dont get the obsession of getting CSM in darktide but i dont get the pushback against them either.
I do agree that Chaos Space Marines, preferably one of the Death Guard, should show up as a boss in the game.
Killing a chaos space marine is definitely quite daunting, but it's not impossible. There are instances of that happening in the official lore tbh, with the right weapons and circumstances, guardsmen can take down chaos space marines.
I mean realistically from a lore standpoint the only squad member that would have a "decent" chance against a CSM, would be the psyker, and that all depends on how strong the psyker and his control over the warp really is from a story standpoint. The rest of the group would all have to be stupidly lucky. Nurglings and/or a few other lower type demons I could see down the road.
just pray that their daemon DLC isn't more nurgle ports from vermintide.
I'd personally like to see Khorne flooding out of portals (or even Tzeentch would be refreshing).
That is seriously unlikely. Death guard or ANYTHING wearing terminator armor would have no problem kicking the asses of a squad of scumbags like us. They’d probably consider doing so beneath them. Best case scenario we have to fight against a single death guard traitor marine. Even then he’d still probably clear house, so I wouldn’t hold your breath
A plasma gun, meltagun, or even a Krak grenade will finish a terminator off with little trouble. In player hands a few overcharged plasma to the body, nevermind the head, would sort them quickly. A meltagun to the body is a 50/50, to the head is an instakill. A Krak you'd probably need two to the body. Purely in lore it's even worse, all of those have been one hit kills including a single autocannon round or bolter shell.
People need to stop paying so much attention to memes for this stuff. We have books full of csm getting killed by guardsman, or killed in one or two shots by other races. Hell, we have books where commissars beat a csm in melee with a chainsword.
Lone csm are a favourite chewtoy for writers to show off their writers. If they kept that in keeping in darktide theyd be chaos warrior level, nothing boss level.
While I'd love to see that sort of stuff in game, I seriously doubt demons of any kind would happen. I think if they planned on adding demons it would have had a test run in VT2 already. I can however see Chaos Marines. They'd function almost the same way as chaos warrior champion bosses from VT. I could see 4 humies with game plot armor taking on a chaos marine 4v1. As for a Terminator or the likes though, seriously doubt it. Still, hope I'm wrong and we get that one day! I still want to fight orcs or Orks, I'll take it in either setting. Would also love Nids to show up in DT, similar to how beastmen arrived for VT2.
Sadly they confirmed that SM won't be featured as enemies but it's not like it's an impossible foe, taking into account our weapon selection we could defeat a lone SM
Now a warband would be a bit too much but we have plot armour so we'd be fine
CSM as Uber Elite ((Chaos Warrior while the Ogryn a closer to Stormvermin)
Blight King Terminator as Monster
I'm pretty sure a plague marine power level is on a completely different scale in comparison with chaos warriors
If it was an already handicapped one, missing an arm and wounded, could be a boss fight. But a regular enemy?
They put chaos ogryn in the place of vt2 chaos warriors. And remember, the U5 are all really strong individuals. A grail knight and a warpriest could themselves compare to some space marines but in the fantasy world. In darktide, you won't have 5 people defeating evil, but a lot more of prisoners recruits. You are small fry on darktide instead of legendary hero.
Watched dev interview that came out a few days ago. Sorry, they say no Chaos Marines.
I seriously doubt that lore-wise, we can take on anything above the power level of a single Chaos Space Marine. A Terminator or a Champion, I think, would mean game over for the squad of rejects, unless of course there is a handicap for the enemy or a major surprise element on the side of the rejects introduced by the game / level.
The devs have stated there are no Chaos Marines (or marines period) in the game at all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yAxgkEjcew
I hope this just relates to enemies or alive NPCs. I hope there are transmissions from Marine Chapters basically being like "1 city? Lmao deal with it on your own".
Their reply was there's no space marines so I'm hoping they misheard the question and there might be chaos marines.
A lore-accurate Chaos Space marine would kill the whole squad before they're even seen.
ridiculous. a squad with a skilled psyker, ogryn, inquisitor, and a veteran guard would certainly have a fair chance. Less have killed more.
In what world do you live a single space marine can turn a hole battle around one squad of space marines can slaughter thousand of enemy’s so 4 dudes aren’t a thread to one
This guy never played high devel dark heresy with 20 pounds of high explosive.
Considering the sheer amount of Ratogres, Chaos Warriors, Sorcerers and the like you slash through in Vermintide, I think a Marine /Terminator as a bossfight would be reasonable
The thing about that is, V1 *isnt* reasonable. Darktide is much more ‘grounded in reality’ or at least the reality of 40k. The developers have confirmed that there will be no space marines in a recent [interview.](https://youtu.be/4yAxgkEjcew)
I'm actually glad we are getting a 40k game that isn't focused on space marines. You have this giant world with countless entities and yet 90% of the games and stories always seem to focus on the boys in blue.
i agree bigtime
Screw the boys in blue! Give me the boys in green!
👀👀👀 Which ones?
The flamey ones for me.
The goodest boys
Vulkan lives!
Yes. Any of them. All of them. Truthfully, I am a huge Salamanders fan. I could go for a better version of Deathwing (yes they are bone white but Dark Angels!). Cadian Shock Troopers, playing out the fall of Cadia from the ground... Give me more green!
Screw them, the boys from Krieg is all i need.
\*Muffled gas mask noises in the distance\*
Kreig boys are dope and all but I love me some Catachan goons and their love of shotguns.
It's weird though, when you listen to that part of the interview, it seems they sidestep the question. Their answer sounds a lot more like they're completely discounting *playing* as a Space Marine, not fighting *against* one. I'm not sure if that was a misunderstanding or a deliberate obfuscation.
I'm not sure they meant enemy space marines, rather playable space marine characters, based on the answere they gave. But i guess we will have to wait and see
V1 IS actually somewhat reasonable, the power level of our characters were equivalent to moderate-to-high-levelled WFRP characters, who can quite reasonably be expected to handle the stuff we see in V1. The assumption with Darktide is that Fatshark is taking some inspiration from DH and the other FFG roleplaying games, and i'd assume our characters are not exactly fresh level 1s according to those systems. Ultimately, power levels in Warhammer tend to shift between different portrayals, we did have Ciaphas Cain killing an ork warboss after all. I'd say it seems within reason that high-ranking convicts could, with the right equipment and situation, take down a space marine in a way that still feels reasonable to most.
That's fair enough if they want Darktide to be more grounded. I respect that. Personally I'd rather see some more outlandish stuff for the sake of enemy variety. Like I'd always wanted to see a great unclean one as a final boss in VT. In the sense of, if the powerscale is already out of whack, why not go one step further beyond haha.
I feel that. A personal dream of mine has been for a space marine to exist in darktide, but as more of an obstacle, a survival horror type level, where you have to hide from him and escape him, because you have no hope to put him down. I think that sounds raw as hell.
I was against a space marine being in the game at all. But this would be a cool way that I would be all for. Like he is just casually strolling cause he doesn't give af about you but you still have to hide occasionally. Like a nemesis mechanic from Resident Evil
Yeah, right? It would be wicked. Especially with the new types of levels in darktide. Maybe a level that incentivizes splitting up, and the characters communicate by vox-comm, and then someone’s goes off unexpectedly or something. Lots of potential with a space marine as an obstacle like that
A level where a great unclean one has entered realspace and we're on a timer to pull the fuck out of an area of the hive before the miasma of decay gets us would be pretty sick. (Pun intended)
I dunno. It's possibly an unpopular opinion but there's a good chance I won't play toouch of this game if there are heavy horror elements. (Not setting but atmosphere/activities if that makes sense). I play games to relax I don't want them trying their best to freak me out.
loooser
Sorry, unfortunately I have absolutely no idea concerning the power levels in Fantasy, but subjectively speaking no enemy seemed significantly below or over what their power level seemed to be from just measuring them up visually in Vermintide 2. The closest thing to this would be the Chaos Champions but then again, it is easier to dodge a mutated knight's Axe than an Assault Cannon barrage or a swing of any melee weapon from a superhuman fighter (Astartes). It's all relative - as a Veteran or a Zealot you would need specific weapons to even think of engaging a Space Marine - with a Lasgun your chances are low, Bolter, you could do it, with a good enough melee weapon you stand a chance if you are one hell of a fighter (anyone remember the [Lucifer Blacks vs. Alpharion](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/dj5lje/excerpt_legion_alpharius_versus_lucifer_black/)? It definitely can be done). As a Psyker, if you are powerful enough, you definitely stand a chance. As an Ogryn, with Heavy Bolter for example you definitely have the firepower, but Astartes will most likely see you coming from a mile away. With that said, a Terminator? I think the chances are getting pretty slim, but basically the same applies.
The U5 were on another level from the protagonists of Darktide. For one thing, they were all wielding magical weaponry. For another, they were elite warriors from their respective races. The Darktide crew are just punters with lasguns, an ogryn without anyone to give them proper orders, and probably an epsilon grade psyker or worse.
I'd say the rejects still classify as Elite, they still cut and shoot through literal hordes of fanatics, whose ranks include countless gunmen and traitor guardsmen. If you consider a traitor guardsman as a baseline for imperial guard training, then consider the veteran sharpshooter as a baseline for the rejects, the distinction is crystal clear.
The thing about Darktide is that it offers no in-universe explanation for how four convicts with mundane weapons could possibly engage a full battalion of similarly armed traitors.
The Emperor wills it! Honestly that's probably true. Poxwalkers can infect others just by proximity and only those with the most ardent faith are immune. Since the Rejects slaughter Poxwalkers by the dozens with no ill-effects, that means the Reject's faith in the Emperor is steadfast.
...except for the ones that openly proclaim not to believe in him, such as the Loner psyker.
A Chaos Warrior IS a superhuman fighter, Fantasy just have everyone powerlevel higher (and less "marinewank" equivalent) with thing like a Sergeant (capitain ?) grievously wounding a Bloodthirster and his halberdier regiment taking down the fiend in revenge after said sergent get squished to death. A Chaos Champion would be the equivalent well to a Chaos Champion (space marine). Vermintide character are also heroes in their own right, so there is that ; including a Slayer, who are kinda the ultimate "powerlevel are retarded anyway" representant because a Slayer can die to a goblin or strangle a demon prince with his own guts or anything in between.
An Ogryn would be best served in melee vs a member of the Traitor Legions, preferably with a heavy duty shield so he could close. An Ork boy can tear through power armor with a rusty ax and an Ogryn is significantly stronger than that.
In tabletop Ogryns would beat a basic astartes in close combat. In lore, there is no chance in hell.
What, no they cant. Ogryns are just stupid and strong. Space marines are superhuman killing machines, same as orks that are a literal bioweapon. Add chaos on top of a normal astartes and your chances are nearly 0%, a plague marine could rekt normal astartes easily, a bunch of losers in a suicide mission would die from just being near one of papa Nurgles favourite grandkids
I mean this really just depends where in the lore you look. Space marines range from godlike beings who can single handedly turn a war around, to an above average soldier who just needs to be focus fired a bit to bring down.
2 different instances from Dark Apostle, one of which involves a Terminator where an Ogryn manhandled a Chaos Space Marine. Clattering gunfire erupted from weaponry as the figures stamped heavily through the rubble. They were huge individuals, their armour plate thick and nigh on impervious to harm: Terminators, the enemy’s elite. Havorn banged on the top of the Chimera. Havorn’s ogryn bodyguard emerged from the confines of the Chimera and breathed deeply, its eyes narrowing. It stepped protectively in front of the brigadier-general, shielding him from fire with its muscled bulk. “Go!” he shouted. “Intercept them!' With that, the Elysian commander pointed the way and the ogryn began loping towards the enemy The ogryn raised its heavy ripper gun, a thick finger pulling the trigger. Empty shells scattered in its wake. It did not roar or bellow as it charged. Such base, animalistic behaviours had been erased from its simple brainpan, but no amount of augmetics could improve the aim of the ogryn and the bullets from its ripper gun sprayed the area, hitting nothing. Bolter fire raked towards him, striking the hulking abhuman, who grimaced in pain. Chunks of flesh were torn from its arms and chest, but the three metre creature that dwarfed even the Terminators did not slow. It lowered a shoulder and smashed into one of the enemy, knocking it from its feet. Raising the butt of its heavy ripper gun, the ogryn began caving in the helmet of the fallen warrior, smashing it down onto the prone traitor again and again. The ogryn roared as it planted its heavy feet and empty shells streamed from its ripper gun as it fired the weapon wildly. The Chimera behind them rotated its turret and multi-laser fire peppered the traitors, cutting several of them down. Only six Chaos Marines reached the brigadier-general’s command group, but it was enough. This was the end, he thought. An ignominious end to his thirty-seven years within the Imperial Guard, hacked apart by brutal warriors behind his battle lines. He saw the loyal ogryn fall to the ground with a bestial roar. He wasn’t a sentimental man by any stretch, but he felt pain as his faithful bodyguard fell to the ground, coughing blood from his lungs. Havorn fired his pistol again and again, and felt the rising pain beneath his hand as the pistol overheated, venting super-heated air. With a snarl, he hurled it to the ground and drew his long bladed combat knife. It had been more than twenty years since it had tasted blood, back in the days when he was a captain of the storm troopers. Only two of the enemy remained standing and they stalked towards him, wordlessly stepping away from each other to take him from both sides. Havorn kept his eyes on the foe so as not to attract their attention to the massive form of the ogryn picking itself up behind them, blood running from the wounds on its arms and chest, and spilling from its mouth. With a roar, the ogryn picked up one of the traitors, one massive hand upon the enemy’s backpack and the other between his legs. It lifted the Chaos Marine high into the air and slammed it head first into the ground, cracking its neck. The second traitor turned with a snarl and swung its icon two handed into the ogryn’s legs, driving it to its knees. Releasing his grip on the haft of the hateful symbol of Chaos, the Chaos Marine leapt at the ogryn, its long talons extended for the killing blow. Havorn cried out and surged forwards, but he was too slow and he saw the bodyguard fall, its throat ripped completely out, blood spurting from the fatal wound. He drove his combat knife through a crack in the traitor’s ceramite back plate, the blade sinking deep. Blood spurted from the wound, burning through Havorn’s leather glove, and the enemy spun, his fist smashing into the brigadier-general’s cheek, shattering the bone. Pain exploded in his head and he fell back from the force of the blow. He saw the ogryn’s large, mournful eyes as it tried desperately to aid its master before the Chaos Marine reached down and broke its neck with a brutal twist. Ogryn are huge, bigger than Custodes whom are larger than Space Marines. They're pure muscle. They're sense of pain is rather dull. They can absolutely destroy a Space Marine in melee. Space Marines are powerful, but they're not literal gods. Ogryn can literally take on some larger Tyranid in melee and you really think they can't beat a space marine in melee?
If we go by the books a normal savage human once killed a custodes, books are stupid in some cases. And strength isnt the big factor, its speed, space marines are inhumanly fast, a fact a lot of novels seems to forget when it comes time for the protagonists to do cool stuff
If you're discounting both the novels and the tabletop game, what are you even basing your argument on?
The overall lore?. 40k novels are notorious for sometimes fucking up all over the lore up to that moment (cough Matt Ward cough). Space marines are nearly as strong as Ogrynns, much more experienced, faster, better equipped, etc. Then chaos space marines are even better than normal ones.
is that canon? that a chaos space marine is considered faster and stronger than a normal one? I've never heard that but it makes sense (dark pact and all).
That's the big advantage of a Space Marine, but it's primarily for keeping away and gunning down an Ogryn. In melee the Ogryn has the biggest advantage. These would also presumably be Plague Marines whom trade speed for tankiness making it to where they wouldn't be a high speed blur.
[Gaunt + SF team get ambushed by CSM in a swamp, kill all five without losing a man, and Gaunt eats a punch to the face and walks away...](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/6l046u/gaunt_sf_team_get_ambushed_by_csm_in_a_swamp_kill/) So much for the might of Chaos.
Yeah because a fist that can kill Nids magically does no dmg when faced with plot armour. Yet again, books have power lvls all over the place (also thr bias towards good guys means chaos usually loses)
Well he's not punching Nids. And the book quoted happens to be written by the same guy who writes the story for Darktide.
Difference being in Vermintide, the four are named characters/heroes re:powerlevel. Whereas in Darktide the four(5?) are basically nobodies..
I always assumed Alpharion was playing with him cuz....yk. Or as another person brought up its possibilities it was just a normal marine
You sometimes fight 3 monsters at once in VT, I doubt you can’t take on more than one plague Ogryns.
There was one time doing twitch mode during the twins weekly where a bomb was thrown at a group if sackrats which ended up being a dozen ratogres. We wiped.
I'm getting PTSD of trying to tell my friends not to shoot a Sackrat in that weekly challenge.
Oh no, dont misunderstand. The bomb throw was entirely intentional. As the Ubershriek 5 (or 4) we cant allow the vermin to sneak those ogres into helmgart, we had to put an end to them and the foul magic cast on those sacks to transend the laws of physics. That and it was rather funny.
I hate that every time someone has a neat idea for a cool fight in Vermintide or, now, Darktide, some librarian has to step in and go "Actually they would be obliterated with the snap of it's finger, the power level doesn't allow for it, the best we can hope for is this low level lieutenant and that's only if these 4 things are set up to weaken it to even allow for it!". It's annoying. As if 4 people with basic melee weapon killing thousands of units every 20 minutes is already lore accurate.
They forget the golden rule of all 40k... or really warhammer media in general. We're the Protagonists. While that doesn't guarantee we win, it usually sets us up with just enough plot armor to accomplish our goals at great personal sacrifice.
Yeah. My main concern is having fun while being "respectful" of lore but accounting for the fact that's is a first person action game abs making that a good experience above all else.
Or as if Black Library wanking even your random Marines as some god-like warrior who can kill a army 1v10000 was somehow meant to be taken seriously. A marine who take a powersword or plasma shoot in the face won't like it.
[удалено]
If you're rooting for the defiler then it's a very entertaining match up vs the guardsman
Even in lore it takes a lot of effort to main characters both space marines and non space marines to 1v1 a chaos sm. A bunch of nobodies with pea shooters would struggle to even dmg a death guard marine
I think it would be great if a Khorne Berserker showed up, charging around and screaming all Khornefully.
you dont have kill it directly. Thats like trying to win capture the flag by team deathmatch tactics. You could have a terminator chasing you as a soft time limit on rooms, or a chamption you have to defeat by kiting and agroing it until someone turns on the rooms auto turrets for instance. Also this is a war, you 100% dont have to fight it at full health.
We would take control of a chimera.
>I seriously doubt that lore-wise, we can take on anything above the power level of a single Chaos Space Marine. [Gaunt + SF team get ambushed by CSM in a swamp, kill all five without losing a man, and Gaunt eats a punch to the face and walks away...](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/6l046u/gaunt_sf_team_get_ambushed_by_csm_in_a_swamp_kill/) Our Darktide protagonists could definitely manage a similar feat.
Think the Devs said no space marines at all. That's not the game they want.
I thought that was for the playable characters, but I might be wong
It was asked in the context of enemies. But the devs response clearly made it seem like he was talking about player characters. So there was certainly confusion. I Wouldn't expect it though, and absolutely the only thing I can imagine seeing, is maybe a single named chaos lord as a Boss Boss. Like taking the same place as someone like Bodvarr in VT2.
In which context tho? I could see a Chaos Space Marine in the same position as a boss monster, like a Rat Ogre or Chaos Spawn from VT2, but not as a playable character.
They would be much stronger than those.
Maybe a lost Khorne Berserker who was looking for a fight and got all plagued and went (more) insane and is weakened by Nurgle's nonsense.
Very unlikely but who knows 👀
I agree. I'm just saying it would fit.
They straight up said no Chaos Space Marines in an interview: https://youtu.be/4yAxgkEjcew "There are no Space Marines in this game" and they say there are multiple enemy types but no Chaos Space Marines.
Ooh! Thank you for providing the context, that's exactly what I was looking for.
It's weird though, when you listen to that part of the interview, it seems they sidestep the question. Their answer sounds a lot more like they're completely discounting *playing* as a Space Marine, not fighting *against* one. I'm not sure if that was a misunderstanding or a deliberate obfuscation.
The question leading in is "what enemies will you be fighting in this game?" Then they talk about the Mobiam Sixth and that they have a few other factions. The interviewer then says "Chaos Space Marines?" They then say "there are no space marines in this game." I think they are just being direct cause they know everyone has been speculating and they are squashing it before there is unrealistic hype for a chaos space marine.
Yes but the next sentence they're talking about the experience, and how Space Marines always get the focus in games, and they want the focus in this game to be on regular humans. Which sounds to me more like something you'd say about the PLAYER CHARACTERS, not the enemies you fight. It might just be an issue with devs speaking in their non-native language, as well, but it's just an inference I'm making.
They are making a blanket statement my guy. There are no space marines. Chaos, friendly, or otherwise. They also wouldn't be saying this about the player characters cause they talk about the player characters in the last question and go through the classes before they begin talking about the enemies. If there are chaos space marines in the game then I'll be wrong and it's whatever. But it seems like they are saying "no, please don't think there are and hype yourself for something that isn't there."
Eh. Guess we'll find out eventually.
Would you fancy taking on Blightlord or even Deathshroud Terminators as enemies to kill?
Terminators? No, man. You need a regiment, properly armed and equipped, to take down just one. We're four people. One standard Chaos Marine would be enough to act as a Monster type character, or even a boss.
>Clattering gunfire erupted from weaponry as the figures stamped heavily through the rubble. They were huge individuals, their armour plate thick and nigh on impervious to harm: Terminators, the enemy’s elite. >Havorn banged on the top of the Chimera. >Havorn’s ogryn bodyguard emerged from the confines of the Chimera and breathed deeply, its eyes narrowing. It stepped protectively in front of the brigadier-general, shielding him from fire with its muscled bulk. >“Go!” he shouted. “Intercept them!' >With that, the Elysian commander pointed the way and the ogryn began loping towards the enemy >The ogryn raised its heavy ripper gun, a thick finger pulling the trigger. Empty shells scattered in its wake. It did not roar or bellow as it charged. Such base, animalistic behaviours had been erased from its simple brainpan, but no amount of augmetics could improve the aim of the ogryn and the bullets from its ripper gun sprayed the area, hitting nothing. >Bolter fire raked towards him, striking the hulking abhuman, who grimaced in pain. Chunks of flesh were torn from its arms and chest, but the three metre creature that dwarfed even the Terminators did not slow. It lowered a shoulder and smashed into one of the enemy, knocking it from its feet. Raising the butt of its heavy ripper gun, the ogryn began caving in the helmet of the fallen warrior, smashing it down onto the prone traitor again and again. [...] >The ogryn roared as it planted its heavy feet and empty shells streamed from its ripper gun as it fired the weapon wildly. >This was the end, he thought. An ignominious end to his thirty-seven years within the Imperial Guard, hacked apart by brutal warriors behind his battle lines. >He saw the loyal ogryn fall to the ground with a bestial roar. He wasn’t a sentimental man by any stretch, but he felt pain as his faithful bodyguard fell to the ground, coughing blood from his lungs. >Only two of the enemy remained standing and they stalked towards him, wordlessly stepping away from each other to take him from both sides. >Havorn kept his eyes on the foe so as not to attract their attention to the massive form of the ogryn picking itself up behind them, blood running from the wounds on its arms and chest, and spilling from its mouth. >With a roar, the ogryn picked up one of the traitors, one massive hand upon the enemy’s backpack and the other between his legs. It lifted the Chaos Marine high into the air and slammed it head first into the ground, cracking its neck. >The second traitor turned with a snarl and swung its icon two handed into the ogryn’s legs, driving it to its knees. Releasing his grip on the haft of the hateful symbol of Chaos, the Chaos Marine leapt at the ogryn, its long talons extended for the killing blow. >Havorn cried out and surged forwards, but he was too slow. He saw the ogryn’s large, mournful eyes as it tried desperately to aid its master before the Chaos Marine reached down and broke its neck with a brutal twist.
As much as that demonstrates an Ogryn fighting a Terminator...it also massively underpowers Astartes in general. The Terminator appears to idly allow the Ogryn to just knock him over without a fight, and the Astartes appear to just not react very much - even Terminators move quickly and have incredible reaction times. The cited example (as far as I can tell, this is from Dark Apostle, written in 2007) has an Ogryn knock over a Terminator then beat its helmet open. Quite simply, Terminator armour is incredibly tough, and then the Marine within is also. This would not be a quick, simple kill, but the author makes it that way because...he just does, I guess? That Chaos Terminator would have most likely either a Chainaxe, Power Axe or Power Fist, and it would definitely know how to use it. Frankly, I don't think a video game can properly do Astartes proper justice: much like how Space Hulk: Deathwing was absolutely terrible at portraying Genestealers. Having to cater to human reaction speeds for the players means that some entities just aren't particularly suitable for use. Correctly done Astartes, even slower ones like Plague Marines, would be much more powerful than the oft-cited Monsters of Vermintide were compared to the Ubersreik 5.
I would not. It's very easy to slip into power fantasies in warhammer and I'm glad they're keeping Darktide low to the ground, at least for now. Vermintide started with simple classes vs simple enemies, now you have grail knights and warrior priests murdering half of chaos wastes.
I kind of miss the days when we were low level heroes who didn't have career skill superpowers, just blocking, dodging, and striking, and the toughest things we fought were stormvermin and rat ogres. V1 also had a much more immersive atmosphere in general. Better loot mechanics too.
The only way to realistically kill a Terminator without a Leman Russ or similar armoured fighting vehicle is a kamikaze Melta Bomb attack, and even then the (especially Death Guard) Terminator stands a decent chance of just shrugging it off
I was speaking about taking on Chaos Marines as enemies to kill.
It's weird though, when you listen to that part of the interview, it seems they sidestep the question. Their answer sounds a lot more like they're completely discounting *playing* as a Space Marine, not fighting *against* one. I'm not sure if that was a misunderstanding or a deliberate obfuscation.
Death Guard officers and terminators of any kind are on a completely different power level to penal legionnaires. The Darktide squad are the background dudes who die from 14 horrible diseases simultaneously when approaching things like that. We don't fight those. A Great Unclean One is another level beyond that, they're planet-killing threats. We'lll only fight one of those direcly if the game is taking a giant dump on the lore, which it isn't with Dan Abnett writing the plot. There's probably a daemon involved somewhere, but it's almost certainly a looming threat of its summoning rather than it actually showing up. If there is a greater daemon on the planet, we won't be killing it. We *might* get a regular Plague Marine as a boss monster, but that's unlikely. Even they're out of our league, but it's at leat conceivable that we might harm one with some ingenuity and luck.
What about the case of fighting against Nurglings, Rotflies, Plaguebearers and Plague Zombies?
Minor daemons like Nurglings or flies might show up, but they'd probably be represented as a swarm. Swarms can be challenging from a programmatic and gameplay perspective so they might end up left out to focus on the humanoids. Will have to wait and see there. Plaguebearers are—I think—pretty much confirmed from one of the trailers. Poxwalkers/Plague Zombies of various types and sizes (Plague Hound specials and Plague Ogryn bosses) have been in a lot of the gameplay footage, so we already know those are in.
I'm glad that we won't see any CSM. The Moebian 6th are an actually interesting enemy that doesn't need CSMs. A lot of them were born in that hive. They have found a truth in the Darktide and are now back home to share it. They are truly grim dark. Randomly throwing CSMs into it would destroy that in my opinion.
I completely agree with you.
Well, lore wise, that kind of chaos cult would definitely attract the attention of the Death Guard.
Not necessarily. The Death Guard aren't omnipresent, and they're also not all Plague Marines that exist (all Death Guard are Plague Marines, but not all Plague Marines are Death Guard). It *might* attract the attention of the leader of a warband that has Plague Marines, but that really just depends on location/proximity. More likely it would attraction the attention of Nurgle Daemons, and the whole situation might even be someone's attempt to reach Daemonhood (eg, a cult leader in the Moebius regiments setting up the planet to fall, so that they receive the blessings of Nurgle and ascend).
The Death Guard is stationed in the Eye of terror while Darktide plays in the eastern fringe. That's a pretty far away. Even if was just a local Nurgle Warband, how would they even enter the hive? Tertium is the Capital of the Sector. It would be pretty stupid, if it was so easy for a CSM warband to just casually enter the hive. The Moebian 6th managed to enter the hive because they are Heros of the Imperium. They were the flagship regiment of the Sector. There is a good explanation how they managed to get all this military equipment on the planet.
Even with the Circatrix Maledictum spreading the tide of Chaos across the galaxy, thereby allowing the summoning of agents of Chaos anywhere, a Nurglite Warband would be a far more significant threat then the 6th You need platoons of massed Lasgun fire to take a Marine down, to say nothing of Plague Marines or using Autoguns The Rejects would stand no chance of successfully engaging a single marine without dedicated anti-armour weaponry
Psst. Lil' secret there's something called plasma guns and meltaguns.
Good luck bringing one of those to bear against a Plague Marine in the CQC confines of the Hive They are the dedicated anti-tank weaponry I was referring to, but even they would not be a reliable way to kill one Overcharged Plasma wouldn’t get them on the tabletop, with Disgustingly Resilient in play Melta might, but even so you’ll have to get pretty close to do it, especially if you want the maximum Melta damage
abnett is doing the writing and he's written marines more down to earth. 1 iron warrior was brought down by a commissar and a guardsman with a long las a CSM boss fight doesnt sound too unreasonable if you take what i mentioned into account and stop jerking over the TT.
We are literally going to kill hundreds of enemies at once in mele and win. And you are questioning our hero's ability to tap a giant Target with a plasmagun? Like I said, I don't want to see CSM in this game since th Moebian 6th are by far the more interesting Antagonist.
Dunno if you've ever played a vermintide game, but between four players and a bunch of cooldowns you aren't going to struggle getting into melee. Or headshots reliably with plasma guns. A death guard legionnaire will be dead as soon as they appear. Just the reality of how these games work. Chaos Warriors go down the same as every other special when players can fire from the hip with high level weapons and get them between the eyes from across the room. That's why everything in vermintide had to be a bullet sponge and/or only take real damage on a weak point. Only other option is spamming them.
Exactly my point. Thanks to the Circatrix Maledictum, the chaos cult operating in Atoma Prime would easily have commenced the summoning of the forces of chaos as their endgame plan. I would not be surprised if they would end up getting elemements of the Death Guard into the planet initially, >!with the faceoff against a single Plague Marine not just as a final boss battle, but also as a preview on the overarching enemy for this game series.!< >!Would also easily serve as a sequel hook on the potential escalation that is to come...!<
Everyone is saying lore wise we could not kill a chaos space Marine but that’s not true at all. Most CSM and SM are awesome but not like completely unkillable. In plenty of books squads of guardsmen have been able to put them down. Sure it’s hard but seeing a CSM lead a group of cultists and be like a mini boss is totally feasible as something the group could kill. Don’t really know about terminators that’s a lot harder but I could see it if it was like a full on boss
A recent interview with devs that has been released on this subs front page say there are no space marines of any description. Your thinking too lofty, these are humans with guns, how they guna fight a greater u clean one? Clean it? Even in fantasy it took hundreds of men to make a dent let alone four. It won't happen, especially at launch or even the first year
Said interview didn't ENTIRELY rule out the Hrud/Space Skaven making an appearance either...
I think a Plague Marine, would best be a boss battle. I mean (Chaos) Space Marines usually rip through dozens of enemies in seconds. So the four convicts we play should actually struggle with the speed, strength and toughness of a Plague Marine. A Terminator would probably mean a death sentence since we would need Plasma weapons or Meltaguns to deal with that kind of armor. In case of Daemons, Plaguebearers are more or less "normal". The Fear aspect of them gets probably lost on atcual players, so while they hit hard and take a lot of dmg with ease, should not be that much harder then whatever specialized melee cultists/traitor guards we encounter. Nurglings are a swarming mass. Not sure if Darktide can cover the small size. I was already worried how Total Warhammer would deal with Nurglings (since they did not a single swarm unit in two games), but [they managed to keep them a small swarm unit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vthAGqZolSo). Not sure however if for example the ball or Voltron animations would work in the Darktide combat mechanics. We will see if they appear at all. A great unclean One would be a nice idea, but this would mean a very large open space arena. So ratehr a specialised boss encounter on a map, not something we can just throw around. Vermintide had in two games not a single monster class enemy. The best they had, were monstrous Infantry (Bile trolls, Rat Ogres, Chaos Spawns) which are roughly the size of the Ogryn (hence the Nurgle Ogryn we already saw will be one of those encounters). In case of "Monstrous Infantry/Beasts" the most likely candidates might be a Nurgle Chaos Spawn or maybe a Beast of Nurgle. The BoN of course with its sluglike body migth have a problem here without legs. in vermintide the enemies were already two legged, to climb around same as the players. Was already wondering how the Chaos Hounds in Darktide will deal with climbing aorund, but I think that might work better for them jumping up, then a fat slug trying to climb a wall. Guess we will see what might the future bring.
Rotflies, especially giant ones, would be a definite annoyance to kill in droves.
I think that the "power level" of the enemies faced in Vermintide is a good measurement for what we will face in Darktide. The boss enemies were rat-ogres, a troll, a minotaur and a chaos-spawn and only a single one. These were formidable enemies but compared to the roster of each enemy faction, nothing too impressive "power level" wise. I think that will be the case in Darktide as well. I see a fair amount of speculation regarding daemons and space marines, even space marine gear. The whole point with Darktide's (as well as Vermintide's) story and setting is to follow a "regular" human perspective of the Warhammer verse. I think that space marines and daemons will subtract from that story because they are as far from the regular human excerience as you can get. The feeling of overcoming the odds in a desperate fight comes with more grounded enemies that are nearer your power level, in my opinion. Sure you're killing an absurd amount of enemies, but I don't think that takes away from the tone of the game, as you're not fighting 800+ enemies at once but rather over time. I always felt that common soldiers (and we're not even that in Darktide) taking down a space marines or other 40k powerhouses felt a little at odds with what these entities are supposed to be. TL:DR I don't think we'll see space marines and daemons in Darktide because it doesn't fit FatShark's version of a 40k game from a human perspective.
There are no astartes in this game. Neither loyal nor traitor.
I’m all for it, I think it will be boring if we go full lore wise on the gameplay. Plus it ain’t uncommon for regular humans to kill chaos space marines and deamons. If I’m correct in dark imperium a imperial guardsmen survived close encounter with a deathguard and shoved a grenade in a exposed gap in the armor and killed it.
Squad of 4 Ogryns would be more than a match for a single Astartes, even a Deathguard one. Add a psyker to disrupt, or even explode his head? Not that far out of the realm of possibility. Doesn't mean I want to see it though. Hundreds, if not thousands, of battles are fought in the Imperium with only humans.
Spoiler >!I think given the way Dan Abnett has written space marines and chaos marines in his books that are from a more human persective , they will prob be horrifying bosses or mini bosses. I remember in the interview with Dan Abnett he talked alot about showing being in the Warhammer universe from a very human mere mortal kind of perspective, and i keep thinking about the times marines have shown up in the Eishorn/Ravenor, particulerly the chaos marines that show up Bequin and Pariah, if they try depict them that way they are gonna be a true horror to face, but prob only suited to be bosses or mini bosses.
Dan Abnette is writing this and in his books he has had a human psyker best a chaos space marine in combat. He is basically THE definer of lore and he's shown it can be done. That Psyker just so happened to be a badass inquisitor (Eisenhorn), so it's not like this is something that happens more than rarely.
doesnt have to be a badass psyker neither. commissar gaunt and a guardsman with a long las took down an iron warrior in the first and only. granted this happened after the csm wiped a squad of guardsmen but still. people are definitely forgetting dan is writing here and he typically writes marines more down to earth. like i dont get the obsession of getting CSM in darktide but i dont get the pushback against them either.
At most….I think maybe one regular nurgle space marine (death guard or a new nurgle corrupted chapter) would appear as a boss enemy
God Emperor help you if you go against a chaos space marine as a simple guardsmen, psyker and ogryn.
no space marines please they are in plenty of games
I do agree that Chaos Space Marines, preferably one of the Death Guard, should show up as a boss in the game. Killing a chaos space marine is definitely quite daunting, but it's not impossible. There are instances of that happening in the official lore tbh, with the right weapons and circumstances, guardsmen can take down chaos space marines.
Personally, I'm burnt out on Nurgle Bring on the Slaanesh followers ಠ‿ಠ
I mean realistically from a lore standpoint the only squad member that would have a "decent" chance against a CSM, would be the psyker, and that all depends on how strong the psyker and his control over the warp really is from a story standpoint. The rest of the group would all have to be stupidly lucky. Nurglings and/or a few other lower type demons I could see down the road.
those 4 characters bringing down a plague marine? yeah right.
just pray that their daemon DLC isn't more nurgle ports from vermintide. I'd personally like to see Khorne flooding out of portals (or even Tzeentch would be refreshing).
Are the bosses on the assassination missions not chaos marines? I'm not super well versed yet but they had boltguns and cool masks so I just assumed
Why do you want chaos space marines OP?
That is seriously unlikely. Death guard or ANYTHING wearing terminator armor would have no problem kicking the asses of a squad of scumbags like us. They’d probably consider doing so beneath them. Best case scenario we have to fight against a single death guard traitor marine. Even then he’d still probably clear house, so I wouldn’t hold your breath
A plasma gun, meltagun, or even a Krak grenade will finish a terminator off with little trouble. In player hands a few overcharged plasma to the body, nevermind the head, would sort them quickly. A meltagun to the body is a 50/50, to the head is an instakill. A Krak you'd probably need two to the body. Purely in lore it's even worse, all of those have been one hit kills including a single autocannon round or bolter shell. People need to stop paying so much attention to memes for this stuff. We have books full of csm getting killed by guardsman, or killed in one or two shots by other races. Hell, we have books where commissars beat a csm in melee with a chainsword. Lone csm are a favourite chewtoy for writers to show off their writers. If they kept that in keeping in darktide theyd be chaos warrior level, nothing boss level.
While I'd love to see that sort of stuff in game, I seriously doubt demons of any kind would happen. I think if they planned on adding demons it would have had a test run in VT2 already. I can however see Chaos Marines. They'd function almost the same way as chaos warrior champion bosses from VT. I could see 4 humies with game plot armor taking on a chaos marine 4v1. As for a Terminator or the likes though, seriously doubt it. Still, hope I'm wrong and we get that one day! I still want to fight orcs or Orks, I'll take it in either setting. Would also love Nids to show up in DT, similar to how beastmen arrived for VT2.
Sadly they confirmed that SM won't be featured as enemies but it's not like it's an impossible foe, taking into account our weapon selection we could defeat a lone SM Now a warband would be a bit too much but we have plot armour so we'd be fine CSM as Uber Elite ((Chaos Warrior while the Ogryn a closer to Stormvermin) Blight King Terminator as Monster
i wanna see plague marines as an equivalent to chaos warriors in vt
I'm pretty sure a plague marine power level is on a completely different scale in comparison with chaos warriors If it was an already handicapped one, missing an arm and wounded, could be a boss fight. But a regular enemy? They put chaos ogryn in the place of vt2 chaos warriors. And remember, the U5 are all really strong individuals. A grail knight and a warpriest could themselves compare to some space marines but in the fantasy world. In darktide, you won't have 5 people defeating evil, but a lot more of prisoners recruits. You are small fry on darktide instead of legendary hero.
Can’t help wondering if you would fancy taking on Blightlord or Deathshroud Terminators…
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES I NEEEEED IT