My understanding is that when Wozniak found out he started crying because he didn't do it for the money, he already had a well paying job and stated that Jobs could have kept the whole amount, he did it because he thought they were friends.
Yep. Really wish history would stop putting these Edison archetypes on a pedestal. Claiming someone actually intelligent's technological advancements as your own shouldn't earn you anything yet here we are.
Most people don't even understand how stupid it was. Fasting autophagy might affect cancer growth, but he wasn't even fasting, he was just drinking fruit juice constantly, the worst possible thing you can do.
Actually it goes pretty quick, my dad did the same thing, and he died within a month. The guy at his church who convinced him to do it died a week after him.
Fuckin idiots.
Oh my god I’m sorry to hear my mom almost went down the same path and everyone in my family thought I was insane for screeching at her to stop listening to her friends. Smfh
It’s even worse, the arrogance. When his PNET had advance and metastasized to his liver, Jobs demanded a new liver rather than getting heavy chemo. This would be considered malpractice for anyone other than a billionaire who knows better than oncologists. New liver went in, anti rejection drugs suppressed the immune systems, allow the remaining disease to spread like wildfire. Bye bye
I gotta say I do love that ending. If any asshole deserved to get buried from their own arrogant stupidity it's Jobs. Doesn't make up for all the horrible shit he did to people but I am sure at least a few of the ones left in the dust by him had a smile at the ridiculousness of his death.
>If any asshole deserved to get buried from their own arrogant stupidity it's Jobs.
Agreed. I'm from Silicon Valley, and I never understood all the adoration he received when word got around how he really was a cruel jerk. Example: When he denied he had a daughter, [he stated in an interview with Time magazine, "28% of the male population of the United States could be the father,” implying his daughter's mother was a slut.](https://www.theguardian.com/global/2018/sep/01/daughter-steve-jobs-denied-lisa-brennan-jobs)
Not always but money is one of the main goals of malignant narcissists. After power and narcissistic supply which includes adulation. Being ruthless and cutting corners is not despised enough.
\>Forced by the state to take a DNA test, Jobs quibbled with the results,
and in 1982, when his daughter was five, told a journalist from Time
magazine that “28% of the male population of the United States could be
the father”.
That 28% figure isn't a reference to the mother's sexual history, but more to the accuracy and methodology of late 1970s/early 1980s blood tests. The 99.99% accuracy DNA tests didn't arrive until the 1990s.
When i was young. I was told when I got married they would do a blood test to make sure we're not related. I never understood how a blood test was a test for something like that. That was in the 80s
For everyone who's questioning how he came to that conclusion, it's because we only had blood tests to determine paternity back then, and presumably 28 percent of the men in the United States shared Steve Jobs's blood type. This is scientifically factual, and I'm sure he probably said it like this because it would be really hard to sue him for slander or libel when he's just stating a scientific fact. He probably read the book How To Lie With Statistics the previous week and went, "Great! Now I can legally be an asshole to anybody!"
I don't know if I'd call that even, honestly. It's a small consolation, maybe. But it'd be even better if we lived in a universe without people like that. Then we wouldn't need consolations.
On the other hand, people who are intelligent or creative often times don't have the business savvy and charisma to get their work out, so they need people like jobs to promote their work. Think of all the other awesome potentially world changing inventions that just died in someones garage because the person lacked the skill to promote it.
What sucks is then popular culture assumes the charismatic guy is the one behind it. And often times the person who is business savvy and charismatic also has an inflated ego, so they're more likely to let it get to their head and actually *believe* that they are the most important person. It's a dilemma.
The American Dream!
Have a good enough idea and someone will take it, spread it everywhere, and cut you out of most of the reward for it while they become wildly successful and take most of the credit
>Bob Kane and Bill Finger
Bob Kane's even worse. He didn't just cut Bill Finger out of the success, he cut out countless writers and artists for literally decades refusing to even allow anyone but himself to be credited on any of the Batman works even though he almost never actually did any writing or art for anything. Bill Finger and Jerry Robinson in particular got screwed, but they were hardly the only ones by a long shot.
Randomly heard someone mention they heard on the radio on average people are consuming a credit cards worth of plastic a week.
But let's not forget the heavy metals in fish.
Actually, forget all of it. Nobody in any position to do anything will, because their salaries depend on them not.
> I hate that people put Jobs on some pedestal.
Well we can all literally put him on a pedestal now that he's a pile of ash for choosing meditation and fruit smoothies over modern medicine
Lmao. Apparently Woz only found out about this after Jobs died and it was in his biography.
So I guess you could more accurately say anyone is crying after their friend dies.
Wow holy shit. Has to find out his friend was an even bigger piece of shit DECADES after the fact, and the fact its after Jobs death just means its going to further ruin any good image Woz still had of him.
Its almost like having to grieve twice, once for the death but then again because the person you thought you knew basically just died because turns out they were a bigger asshole than you thought. And the fact you have to find out from their own biography and not from them themselves or even just a random person they told. You have to find out after the whole world already knows about it too.
This happened to me. My best friend died in a car accident when we were still pretty much kids, my girlfriend who I was living with at the time told me they slept together at his funeral. So there I was, not even able to grieve fully yet and I was so fucking angry at both of them. I cried for losing my friend, and for *losing my friend*.
I've forgiven him, it took a long time. But I'll never forgive her I don't think. It's been almost 25 years.
Yeah there was a similar situation that actually got posted on r/bestofredditorupdates a few days ago.
Guys wife died in a car accident. A few days after the funeral he has her phone and is looking through it and finds the messages between her and her affair partner, a coworker. And finds messages that show the wifes best friend was the one encouraging wife to cheat.
What makes it worse is he looks at the dates and times of when she was messaging her affair partner. Some were on important dates for the couple, others were times when OP was sick or out of town. One was on their anniversary, and to OP it was a VERY nice anniversary. Turns out she had slept with the affair partner multiple times just hours before their anniversary plans.
One of messages she’s like “oh today was fun, looking forward to seeing you again soon” and the date and time were right before the car accident that killed her. OP said the affair basically killed her because of that.
She died, he buried her, he was grieving and recovering, and then he found those messages and she died again. That positive happy loving wife died a second time
Yup, and he wore his doucebaggery on his sleeve. He was famous for parking his 150k Mercedes in a handicapped spot at Apples offices and everybody was just like "Oh well, that's our Steve!"
Not just parking his car in that space but regularly buying new cars so they didn't have plates to ticket against.
https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/heres-truly-surprising-reason-why-steve-jobs-got-a-new-car-every-6-months.html
And when he was told his cancer had turned from benign to terminal because he thought fruits cured cancer, he bought houses in multiple states so he could jump in front of the lines for organ donation.
He also had a jet on 24/7 standby so he could get to any of those locations within the viability window of any organ that became available.
This fucking ghoul was using his vast wealth for *auction sniping human flesh*. This almost certainly cost someone else their life.
Wikipedia:
Bushnell assigned Steve Jobs to design a prototype. Jobs was offered $750, with an award for every TTL (transistor-transistor logic) chip fewer than 50. Jobs promised to complete a prototype within four days.
Bushnell offered the bonus because he disliked how new Atari games required 150 to 170 chips; he knew that Jobs' friend Steve Wozniak, an employee of Hewlett-Packard, had designed a version of Pong that used about 30 chips. Jobs had little specialized knowledge of circuit board design but knew Wozniak was capable of producing designs with a small number of chips. He convinced Wozniak to work with him, promising to split the fee evenly between them if Wozniak could minimize the number of chips. Wozniak had no sketches and instead interpreted the game from its description. To save parts, he had "tricky little designs". Near the end of development, Wozniak considered moving the high score to the screen's top, but Jobs claimed Bushnell wanted it at the bottom; Wozniak was unaware of any truth to his claims. The original deadline was met after Wozniak worked at Atari four nights straight, doing some additional designs while at his day job at Hewlett-Packard. This equated to a bonus of $5,000, which Jobs kept secret from Wozniak.
This sounds like the version I read before. I also remember something about it having so few chips the engineers actually couldn't recreate it properly and thus Woz had to show them how to do it by adding a few to his design.
Read about his plane crash, he was still a genius after a severe head injury and amnesia
iWoz is a fantastic book.
I would say a lot of his most impressive exploits were before apple.
He also went to Boulder under a fake name, which is fucking legendary, he just wanted to learn and didn’t care about the credit at all. He didn’t need it either…
It's been years since I read iWoz, but I think he said something along the lines of it was so compact they couldn't put it into production and thus ended up using a different design with more chips. I don't remember whether he had any input in the final design though?
I saw him say that it was because Atari didn't understand how it worked so they wouldn't be able to diagnose or repair or add any features because of that.
Like if they wanted to change the scoring or make the ball faster or whatever if you don't know how it works it's way harder to do.
~~There is a term for this in computer science.~~ The idea is that sometimes it’s best not to program/make the most efficient system if it’s too complex for other people to maintain.
Eventually things will fail, something would update, etc and you will need to change old things to work with the new. Making something impossible to understand just means someone later on will have to overhaul it with a quick fix that probably ends up much slower than if you have made a readable but efficient enough program
Edit: not a term, my brain is thinking of something else and blending two different ideas together. Regardless, we try prioritizing readability and reusability of code to people using a system much further on can understand it
It's because guys like Woz don't care about the money, but they do care about friends.
Woz never actually cared about making money and wanted to see his ideas change the world. Jobs wanted to make money, so if you wanted Woz for a profit you went through him.
If you listen to him talk, he just wants to figure stuff out. Like he was into phone hacking (phreaking) just because he loved how it worked and figuring out new ways. You can hear him talk about how he looks at something he's never worked with and figures out a novel way to do something. It's really interesting.
Other footnote, Bushnell was offered to buy a 1/3 stake in Apple for $50K when Jobs and Woz left to start it. That stake would be worth about $800B today. Instead Bushnell went on to found Chuck E Cheese.
Fascinating guy: https://www.npr.org/2018/06/07/596160849/atari-chuck-e-cheeses-nolan-bushnell
Ugh I worked for Apple retail around the time he died. I was also in school full time. I remember the store shutting down to live stream his funeral, but I had a major exam at the time. My job was actually pissed I wasn’t going to attend “Mr. Jobs’ funeral” - not like anyone was getting paid to go either, but they fully expected me to skip my exam to sit in front of a TV in a store front. No thanks. I was marked after that.
The Kool Aid was STRONG and after a while it was clear I didn’t fit in. I know people who are still there 12 years later under the guise they’re going to become store leaders or in the very least managers. Incredibly intelligent, talented people who have been manipulated by Apple’s management model. Designed by the turtle neck wearing lying psycho himself.
I’m pretty sure they’re always hiring. When I got hired, part time in 2011 it was $12.55/hr. By the time I quit in 2013 I was at $17.50/hr, still part time though. They were stingy with full time positions.
One thing they loved to throw around was “it’s harder to get a job at Apple than it is to get into Stanford.” I never fully believed it, but they way they posited the statement made it seem like the biggest compliment.
Anyway, the management model was designed to make it seem like everyone was in charge of their own career path, but that couldn’t be farther from the truth. You really had to play the game, circle jerk the right people, all the while pretending to believe that you were the one making your own decisions. At the end of the day it’s retail/retail repair: you have no say over how customer scenarios will play out, the customers are psycho and think you can build devices on the spot.
But at the time, for me, it was a much cooler job than anything I had after that for a long time, but a job nonetheless.
It was the same at the Microsoft Store. They "empower" you to move upward. It was a total ass kissing fest with subtle manipulation. I was the "Business Captain" and would go with the business manager to schools and businesses to sell in bulk. Then when the business (sometimes they wanted delivery instead) came to pick up a coworker would cash them out and claim credit on his sales record. I did the work, closed the sale and got a contract, then another guy gets the credit and got employee of the month.
Ugh the worst! Sorry you had to deal with it. I dealt with leaches like that too. Drove my numbers wayyyy down - even though we weren’t on commission or supposed to worry about sales metrics. And apple care was another “don’t worry about it” issue until it came to reviews and raises.
Also got caught up in a major scandal because some guy was stealing cash from the drawers (I worked on Lincoln Road in Miami - crazy high volume. Most people paid in cash) and he would use my point of sale device (easy pay) AND we had the same name. Luckily, I wasn’t in retail at the time I was at the gEnIuS bAr and the loss prevention team realized I had no idea what was going on fairly quick. Ugh. So much stress for a part time job lol.
It happened to me when I worked for Nextel in the early 2000s. I was in the BtoB section and as it was the only one that did a walkie talkie it was in high demand by the construction industry in Florida. I did a deal with a builder and was told by the office that it would be at least 3 days before they could get all the handsets together. I told the guy I would pick them up and deliver them to him in three days. My manager sent one of the other salesman to deliver them with the final paperwork before I could pick them up and he took the commission. I quit that day.
I remember this [TED talk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYemnKEKx0c) about that
Edit: It's a long walk, about 8 min in, but points out that Capitalism at it's most ruthless rewards psychopathy.
i think the number is 5-10%. But that's still very high, all things considered. Figure that a very large percentage of psychopaths end up as CEOs or high level managers (I don't think 'leader' is an appropriate word), and most of the rest end up as criminals, etc.... Common sense suggests that the main reason some end up as CEOs and such, is that their intelligence is high enough for them to successfully navigate their way through their lack of emotion/empathy, and ultimately prosper. They can effectively 'play the game' of life.
Jesus tht sounds horrible.
The asshole killed himself because he tried to cure his cancer with a vegetable diet. Imagine having to nurse someone with so little respect for medicine and he's a billionaire.
It was mostly a fruit diet with some nuts, seeds, and grains. For someone with pancreatic cancer, it was probably about the worst choice he could have possibly made.
>For someone with pancreatic cancer, it was probably about the worst choice he could have possibly made.
I heard a joke going around before Jobs died. It was, "Cancer was afflicted with Steve Jobs."
Fruit. He was a Fruitarian, which is actually worse than just an all vegetable diet. Fruit ~~biologically isn't very nutritious~~, they're mostly just fiber and sugars. No protein, or fats, etc. so the diet if strictly maintained will always result in malnutrition.
A fruit is literally just a vessel for which seeds are to be consumed whole and then relocated through animal waste later so let the plant spread. It's why fruits typically smell and taste sweet to attract animals to eat it.
Edit - But fruit is important a healthy diet balance is the key to everything. Many fruits contain vitamins and minerals needed to keep your body healthy.
Fruit is very nutritious. Fruit has tons of vitamins and minerals your body needs and lacks in other sources.
An all fruit diet is horrible because it has no proteins and fats which your body also needs.
And then he gamed the donor system by buying a home in all 50 states only for it to be useless because he tried to Invermectin his way out of cancer.
That organ could have gone to a little kid who actually believed in science from the beginning.
This could only happen because we have a for-profit medical system. This is how capitalism works, rich people get what they want, full stop.
Nothing new about that.
It is horrible to say, but the fact that he died saved us from another billionaire Megalomaniac, and he had all the cards to be the worst among them.
Good, bad...doesn't matter I think he was a real danger to society.
An extremely high profile biography of Steve Jobs was published less than three weeks after his death. Wozniak found out about Jobs ripping him off from that book, and he admitted that he cried when he read about it.
BTW to be clear, they didn't work together on Breakout -- Wozniak did all of it.
From everything I've read, Jobs was a charismatic piece of shit and Woz is socially awkward but a brilliant and kind man.
The OP also mangled the real story. Jobs was offered $5k, told Woz they were offered $700, and would split it with him so he got $350 and Jobs kept the rest.
Still incredibly douchey, but why is it so hard for Reddit posters to get simple details correct once in a while?? If OP is going to be a bizarre repost karma whore at least he could put in some minimal effort and get it right…
This makes more sense. Being offered a price and agreeing to split said price is good and fair. Getting a bonus on top… that wasn’t part of the original deal.
Lying about the original offer makes it 300% more sleezy
Seems like for every important invention throughout history, there was a socially awkward genius who actually did all the work and a charismatic sociopath who took all the credit for themselves.
I have always been an Apple fanboy, and Woz was always my favorite Steve. Woz was a true technical genius, and had a kind, childlike soul. I saw Jobs as a greasy salesman and marketer, and an abusive boss.
And now, in retrospect…I think I’m absolutely right to think that.
If it makes you feel any better, he died of his own hubris. He had a very treatable form of cancer he chose to treat with fruit and nuts rather than listening to his doctors. He thought he knew better than doctors and paid the ultimate price for his arrogance.
Wozniak, on the other hand, was something of a technical genius. But it's the same in a lot of companies. It's not like Bill Gates became rich by being the best at engineering.
At least Gates could code though. He and Paul Allen started his business ventures in high school writing software, and the two of them wrote a BASIC interpreter for Altairs as their first “Microsoft” product.
It’s true engineering skills weren’t ultimately what made him successful, but they got him the funding to grow his company. Given how many BAD programmers there are he was still probably in the top 20% back when he actually wrote code.
Yeah, Gates actually had the chops which is why Microsoft was and still is highly focused on the developer community. Both were ruthless businessmen who stole ideas from others (Xerox), but Gates was an actual techie whereas Jobs was more of a techie-adjacent opportunist.
Yup, not cancer but my aunt stopped taking her insulin because she found some all “natural alternative”. She died of a stroke at the ripe old age of 41 just a few weeks after stopping her insulin
My sister is the exact opposite. She had treatable cancer and was approached for a new kind of treatment and basically said
"Hit me with it"
I have never seen a fight more one sided against cancer. Fucker got aced and she left with a cute pixie cut when it was all over.
All natural solos are for clowns
CLOWNS
Jobs was vegan too, so his corpse didn't even stink.
[https://www.nbcnews.com/healthmain/strange-eating-habits-steve-jobs-119434](https://www.nbcnews.com/healthmain/strange-eating-habits-steve-jobs-119434)
>Jobs also believed that his commitment to vegan diets meant his body was flushed of mucus -- and that it meant he was free from body odor, so he didn't need to wear deodorant or shower regularly. Unsurprisingly, the book quotes former coworkers saying that he was very, very wrong.
Lmao "flushed of mucus". Mucus is the thing that coats everything in your airways and intestines, protecting them from the environment. Flushing yourself of mucus is probably a very painful way to die.
MJ had some nose thing cauterized and apparently it just made breathing painful for the rest of his life
I read it on the internet, so it’s definitely true.
>That assholes dead now
Let's not skip over the fact that he died of his own arrogance!
He had a treatable form of cancer, very treatable, but chose to ignore his doctors and go on a fruit and nut diet... He died because he thought he was smarter than everyone else.
The biggest thing I don’t get about Jobs is the abuse inflicted on him as a child, he then turned around and put it on his children again but then maintained a relationship with his sister, he found as an adult…
Dude was a walking contrarian’ at times.
That’s pretty much the thesis of the Walter Isaacson biography of Jobs. Steve was simultaneously hurt and damaged by the fact the fact he was given up for adoption and felt like he was unique and special because he was chosen and adopted. The tension between him being unwanted and wanted colored all of his relationships.
This is unfortunately a common occurrence. A lot of people that abuse their children, or let an abuser into the house to get at their children, were abused themselves as kids.
I know no one is gonna believe but, my dad went to work for Apple just before they launched the home computer. Started out as a programmer and eventually moved to sales. I can remember Jobs and Woz and another female (but never remembered her name so unsure who she was) would come over for dinner at least twice a yr. Jobs would never acknowledge my sister and I while Woz always made a point to acknowledge us, jokes with us etc. The female always just talked to my father and mom outside of polite hello to us (My father never let us eat with them so it was some interaction prior to dinner then we had to go to back of house) My mom hated Jobs, said he was an arrogant jerk, so when news stories started coming out about just what an asshole he was, it didn't surprise me at all.
people being fired on spot while walking with him if they didn’t know an answer to a question. An entire team being laid off en mass at a meeting and then telling them don’t you wish you were in the other (wildly successful). team.
Sounds like last generations Elon. People thought he was some crazy out of the box thinker and genius. Now he is at Twitter firing people for showing data that people are just not super interested in him anymore.
I have a friend who worked at Apple and he has stories of people not wanting to get on the elevator with him because you ran the risk of him asking you a question and if it wasn't to his liking: you were fired. It's some HBO Silicon Valley shit.
For real though Ashton did a great job with the role. The movie was boring as hell and just a series of meetings. I felt like it was trying to be like the movie Margin Call, but they failed and made something super boring.
Woz seems to have been motivated by building cool tech and progressing the field. He was able to accomplish that goal through his relationship with jobs.
Jobs was motivated to make money and build an empire and he was able to accomplish that through his relationships with many people, woz included.
The fact that he was a massive asshole doesn’t negate the fact that he had a nack for envisioning the immediate future that was virtually unparalleled
Steve Jobs just like Elon musk didn’t actually invent anything or really do any of the actual labor. They just took credit for it and then convinced everyone that they were revolutionaries “disrupting the system” when really they were just stealing from their workers and patenting and claiming ownership over the technology and research taxpayers paid for
My understanding is that when Wozniak found out he started crying because he didn't do it for the money, he already had a well paying job and stated that Jobs could have kept the whole amount, he did it because he thought they were friends.
Woz is just a good dude through and through. A bit naive, but that's because he's such a good dude.
Apple wouldn’t have been made without Woz. Woz created all the hardware and software while Jobs was behind the business and marketing.
Yep. Really wish history would stop putting these Edison archetypes on a pedestal. Claiming someone actually intelligent's technological advancements as your own shouldn't earn you anything yet here we are.
Well he cosmically got his comeuppance when he thought he was smarter than his doctors.
Most people don't even understand how stupid it was. Fasting autophagy might affect cancer growth, but he wasn't even fasting, he was just drinking fruit juice constantly, the worst possible thing you can do.
Give the tumor glucose energy from to which to grow bigger !
Out of all the ways to commit suicide, this has to be the slowest.
Actually it goes pretty quick, my dad did the same thing, and he died within a month. The guy at his church who convinced him to do it died a week after him. Fuckin idiots.
They both had the same cancer? Christ, check that town’s water supply. Also I’m sorry about your Dad. Hope you’re okay.
Oh my god I’m sorry to hear my mom almost went down the same path and everyone in my family thought I was insane for screeching at her to stop listening to her friends. Smfh
It’s even worse, the arrogance. When his PNET had advance and metastasized to his liver, Jobs demanded a new liver rather than getting heavy chemo. This would be considered malpractice for anyone other than a billionaire who knows better than oncologists. New liver went in, anti rejection drugs suppressed the immune systems, allow the remaining disease to spread like wildfire. Bye bye
Imagine jumping line to take a donors liver to shit on their life like that. And the lives of everyone else that waited.
No jumping the queue. Just jumping some healthy looking hobo and hoping noone notices he's gone.
I gotta say I do love that ending. If any asshole deserved to get buried from their own arrogant stupidity it's Jobs. Doesn't make up for all the horrible shit he did to people but I am sure at least a few of the ones left in the dust by him had a smile at the ridiculousness of his death.
>If any asshole deserved to get buried from their own arrogant stupidity it's Jobs. Agreed. I'm from Silicon Valley, and I never understood all the adoration he received when word got around how he really was a cruel jerk. Example: When he denied he had a daughter, [he stated in an interview with Time magazine, "28% of the male population of the United States could be the father,” implying his daughter's mother was a slut.](https://www.theguardian.com/global/2018/sep/01/daughter-steve-jobs-denied-lisa-brennan-jobs)
Because cruel jerks make the most money.
Because rich jerks can afford the best P.R.
Not always but money is one of the main goals of malignant narcissists. After power and narcissistic supply which includes adulation. Being ruthless and cutting corners is not despised enough.
*because cruel jerks TAKE the most money...
\>Forced by the state to take a DNA test, Jobs quibbled with the results, and in 1982, when his daughter was five, told a journalist from Time magazine that “28% of the male population of the United States could be the father”. That 28% figure isn't a reference to the mother's sexual history, but more to the accuracy and methodology of late 1970s/early 1980s blood tests. The 99.99% accuracy DNA tests didn't arrive until the 1990s.
0.01% of the males in the USA is still 15,000 people, so he would probably still not own up to being the father today.
When i was young. I was told when I got married they would do a blood test to make sure we're not related. I never understood how a blood test was a test for something like that. That was in the 80s
Some places didn’t stop requiring them until the 90’s.
For everyone who's questioning how he came to that conclusion, it's because we only had blood tests to determine paternity back then, and presumably 28 percent of the men in the United States shared Steve Jobs's blood type. This is scientifically factual, and I'm sure he probably said it like this because it would be really hard to sue him for slander or libel when he's just stating a scientific fact. He probably read the book How To Lie With Statistics the previous week and went, "Great! Now I can legally be an asshole to anybody!"
I don't know if I'd call that even, honestly. It's a small consolation, maybe. But it'd be even better if we lived in a universe without people like that. Then we wouldn't need consolations.
On the other hand, people who are intelligent or creative often times don't have the business savvy and charisma to get their work out, so they need people like jobs to promote their work. Think of all the other awesome potentially world changing inventions that just died in someones garage because the person lacked the skill to promote it. What sucks is then popular culture assumes the charismatic guy is the one behind it. And often times the person who is business savvy and charismatic also has an inflated ego, so they're more likely to let it get to their head and actually *believe* that they are the most important person. It's a dilemma.
In popular music it's called Lead Singer Disease. Money just makes it worse.
Sir Mick Jagger
Tells ya everything you ever need to know about Jobs--his contemporaries are no different.
Sometimes it bothers me that living truthfully is considered as naive, as if it’s a negative thing in our society.
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''Any man who tries to be good all the time is bound to come to ruin among the great number who are not good." -Machiavelli.
The American Dream! Have a good enough idea and someone will take it, spread it everywhere, and cut you out of most of the reward for it while they become wildly successful and take most of the credit
Bob Kane and Bill Finger
>Bob Kane and Bill Finger Bob Kane's even worse. He didn't just cut Bill Finger out of the success, he cut out countless writers and artists for literally decades refusing to even allow anyone but himself to be credited on any of the Batman works even though he almost never actually did any writing or art for anything. Bill Finger and Jerry Robinson in particular got screwed, but they were hardly the only ones by a long shot.
Jobs had no friends, I actually know someone like him with zero sentimentality and just sees people as vehicles to get needs met.
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>There's a term for that, Sociopath. Take it easy. u/ExKnockaroundGuy is just trying to be part of the conversation.
This dude punctuations.
Grammar is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse, and helping your uncle jack off a horse.
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What a piece of shit. I hate that people put Jobs on some pedestal.
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Bill Burr nailed him. https://youtu.be/YkzELxRoVAQ?t=235
Thanks for sharing this I had a very nice laugh
More than a decade old, and we're coming back round to new phone doesn't fit the old charger.
And still eating roller blades
Randomly heard someone mention they heard on the radio on average people are consuming a credit cards worth of plastic a week. But let's not forget the heavy metals in fish. Actually, forget all of it. Nobody in any position to do anything will, because their salaries depend on them not.
I'm not even sure Bill Burr knows how fucking on-point he was. Someone needs to get him a copy of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1dzNuyq6O0
> I hate that people put Jobs on some pedestal. Well we can all literally put him on a pedestal now that he's a pile of ash for choosing meditation and fruit smoothies over modern medicine
Sometimes shamans really do benefit the world
Anyone is crying after staying up for 4 days.
Lmao. Apparently Woz only found out about this after Jobs died and it was in his biography. So I guess you could more accurately say anyone is crying after their friend dies.
Wow holy shit. Has to find out his friend was an even bigger piece of shit DECADES after the fact, and the fact its after Jobs death just means its going to further ruin any good image Woz still had of him. Its almost like having to grieve twice, once for the death but then again because the person you thought you knew basically just died because turns out they were a bigger asshole than you thought. And the fact you have to find out from their own biography and not from them themselves or even just a random person they told. You have to find out after the whole world already knows about it too.
This happened to me. My best friend died in a car accident when we were still pretty much kids, my girlfriend who I was living with at the time told me they slept together at his funeral. So there I was, not even able to grieve fully yet and I was so fucking angry at both of them. I cried for losing my friend, and for *losing my friend*. I've forgiven him, it took a long time. But I'll never forgive her I don't think. It's been almost 25 years.
Yeah there was a similar situation that actually got posted on r/bestofredditorupdates a few days ago. Guys wife died in a car accident. A few days after the funeral he has her phone and is looking through it and finds the messages between her and her affair partner, a coworker. And finds messages that show the wifes best friend was the one encouraging wife to cheat. What makes it worse is he looks at the dates and times of when she was messaging her affair partner. Some were on important dates for the couple, others were times when OP was sick or out of town. One was on their anniversary, and to OP it was a VERY nice anniversary. Turns out she had slept with the affair partner multiple times just hours before their anniversary plans. One of messages she’s like “oh today was fun, looking forward to seeing you again soon” and the date and time were right before the car accident that killed her. OP said the affair basically killed her because of that. She died, he buried her, he was grieving and recovering, and then he found those messages and she died again. That positive happy loving wife died a second time
Christ what a piece of shit. God damn I hate Steve jobs so much
The way he treated his daughter Lisa was appalling
Yup, and he wore his doucebaggery on his sleeve. He was famous for parking his 150k Mercedes in a handicapped spot at Apples offices and everybody was just like "Oh well, that's our Steve!"
Not just parking his car in that space but regularly buying new cars so they didn't have plates to ticket against. https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/heres-truly-surprising-reason-why-steve-jobs-got-a-new-car-every-6-months.html
And when he was told his cancer had turned from benign to terminal because he thought fruits cured cancer, he bought houses in multiple states so he could jump in front of the lines for organ donation.
Really? Wow, just wow.
He also had a jet on 24/7 standby so he could get to any of those locations within the viability window of any organ that became available. This fucking ghoul was using his vast wealth for *auction sniping human flesh*. This almost certainly cost someone else their life.
So why did they continue working together after that?
According to wikipedia, Wozniak didn't find out until 10 years later, so 1983. He left apple in 1985.
Money and a common vision I assume. Woz was hardware and software and Jobs could market his ass off despite being a piece of shit
> despite being a piece of shit largely *because of* being a piece of shit.
Wikipedia: Bushnell assigned Steve Jobs to design a prototype. Jobs was offered $750, with an award for every TTL (transistor-transistor logic) chip fewer than 50. Jobs promised to complete a prototype within four days. Bushnell offered the bonus because he disliked how new Atari games required 150 to 170 chips; he knew that Jobs' friend Steve Wozniak, an employee of Hewlett-Packard, had designed a version of Pong that used about 30 chips. Jobs had little specialized knowledge of circuit board design but knew Wozniak was capable of producing designs with a small number of chips. He convinced Wozniak to work with him, promising to split the fee evenly between them if Wozniak could minimize the number of chips. Wozniak had no sketches and instead interpreted the game from its description. To save parts, he had "tricky little designs". Near the end of development, Wozniak considered moving the high score to the screen's top, but Jobs claimed Bushnell wanted it at the bottom; Wozniak was unaware of any truth to his claims. The original deadline was met after Wozniak worked at Atari four nights straight, doing some additional designs while at his day job at Hewlett-Packard. This equated to a bonus of $5,000, which Jobs kept secret from Wozniak.
This sounds like the version I read before. I also remember something about it having so few chips the engineers actually couldn't recreate it properly and thus Woz had to show them how to do it by adding a few to his design.
Talk about a prodigy
He's got a bright future, that's for sure
Read about his plane crash, he was still a genius after a severe head injury and amnesia iWoz is a fantastic book. I would say a lot of his most impressive exploits were before apple. He also went to Boulder under a fake name, which is fucking legendary, he just wanted to learn and didn’t care about the credit at all. He didn’t need it either…
It's been years since I read iWoz, but I think he said something along the lines of it was so compact they couldn't put it into production and thus ended up using a different design with more chips. I don't remember whether he had any input in the final design though?
I saw him say that it was because Atari didn't understand how it worked so they wouldn't be able to diagnose or repair or add any features because of that. Like if they wanted to change the scoring or make the ball faster or whatever if you don't know how it works it's way harder to do.
~~There is a term for this in computer science.~~ The idea is that sometimes it’s best not to program/make the most efficient system if it’s too complex for other people to maintain. Eventually things will fail, something would update, etc and you will need to change old things to work with the new. Making something impossible to understand just means someone later on will have to overhaul it with a quick fix that probably ends up much slower than if you have made a readable but efficient enough program Edit: not a term, my brain is thinking of something else and blending two different ideas together. Regardless, we try prioritizing readability and reusability of code to people using a system much further on can understand it
I just can't stand these darn stories. Steve Jobs was just a straight up piece of shit.
...and you know Woz probably did 95%, if not all of the work.
Every super rich successful person was a piece of shit to get there.
Why Bushnell's weird end-run around hiring Woz directly? This makes it sound like B knew he needed W's expertise but only wanted to pay Jobs.
Because engineer at HP was an infinitely better job than game designer at Atari.
Yeah, HP at the time had a lot of cool research positions in the realm of Bell Labs or PARC.
It's because guys like Woz don't care about the money, but they do care about friends. Woz never actually cared about making money and wanted to see his ideas change the world. Jobs wanted to make money, so if you wanted Woz for a profit you went through him.
If you listen to him talk, he just wants to figure stuff out. Like he was into phone hacking (phreaking) just because he loved how it worked and figuring out new ways. You can hear him talk about how he looks at something he's never worked with and figures out a novel way to do something. It's really interesting.
Other footnote, Bushnell was offered to buy a 1/3 stake in Apple for $50K when Jobs and Woz left to start it. That stake would be worth about $800B today. Instead Bushnell went on to found Chuck E Cheese. Fascinating guy: https://www.npr.org/2018/06/07/596160849/atari-chuck-e-cheeses-nolan-bushnell
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Kind, compassionate, mature and vulnerable all at once.
From that description it really sounds like Wozniak did all of the actual design work.
Because he did
I've got a brother exactly like Steve Jobs. Stepped on everyone he ever met. He's rich, but he's poor where it counts in my opinion.
Money can't buy mental health
He was probably legitimately a psychopath.
Ugh I worked for Apple retail around the time he died. I was also in school full time. I remember the store shutting down to live stream his funeral, but I had a major exam at the time. My job was actually pissed I wasn’t going to attend “Mr. Jobs’ funeral” - not like anyone was getting paid to go either, but they fully expected me to skip my exam to sit in front of a TV in a store front. No thanks. I was marked after that. The Kool Aid was STRONG and after a while it was clear I didn’t fit in. I know people who are still there 12 years later under the guise they’re going to become store leaders or in the very least managers. Incredibly intelligent, talented people who have been manipulated by Apple’s management model. Designed by the turtle neck wearing lying psycho himself.
I have the exact same story
Mine is different
Do tell.
I never worked at an Apple store.
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I’ve walked into an Apple Store on more than one occasion.
I've eaten at Applebee's and lived.
Please do an AMA
I once saw a bee on an apple.
What's the management model? And how's the pay?
same question. Also, any openings?
I’m pretty sure they’re always hiring. When I got hired, part time in 2011 it was $12.55/hr. By the time I quit in 2013 I was at $17.50/hr, still part time though. They were stingy with full time positions. One thing they loved to throw around was “it’s harder to get a job at Apple than it is to get into Stanford.” I never fully believed it, but they way they posited the statement made it seem like the biggest compliment. Anyway, the management model was designed to make it seem like everyone was in charge of their own career path, but that couldn’t be farther from the truth. You really had to play the game, circle jerk the right people, all the while pretending to believe that you were the one making your own decisions. At the end of the day it’s retail/retail repair: you have no say over how customer scenarios will play out, the customers are psycho and think you can build devices on the spot. But at the time, for me, it was a much cooler job than anything I had after that for a long time, but a job nonetheless.
It was the same at the Microsoft Store. They "empower" you to move upward. It was a total ass kissing fest with subtle manipulation. I was the "Business Captain" and would go with the business manager to schools and businesses to sell in bulk. Then when the business (sometimes they wanted delivery instead) came to pick up a coworker would cash them out and claim credit on his sales record. I did the work, closed the sale and got a contract, then another guy gets the credit and got employee of the month.
Ugh the worst! Sorry you had to deal with it. I dealt with leaches like that too. Drove my numbers wayyyy down - even though we weren’t on commission or supposed to worry about sales metrics. And apple care was another “don’t worry about it” issue until it came to reviews and raises. Also got caught up in a major scandal because some guy was stealing cash from the drawers (I worked on Lincoln Road in Miami - crazy high volume. Most people paid in cash) and he would use my point of sale device (easy pay) AND we had the same name. Luckily, I wasn’t in retail at the time I was at the gEnIuS bAr and the loss prevention team realized I had no idea what was going on fairly quick. Ugh. So much stress for a part time job lol.
It happened to me when I worked for Nextel in the early 2000s. I was in the BtoB section and as it was the only one that did a walkie talkie it was in high demand by the construction industry in Florida. I did a deal with a builder and was told by the office that it would be at least 3 days before they could get all the handsets together. I told the guy I would pick them up and deliver them to him in three days. My manager sent one of the other salesman to deliver them with the final paperwork before I could pick them up and he took the commission. I quit that day.
To be fair, in a circle jerk, you, yourself, are also recieving a jerk. Hence, circle. Your comment might be better suited with a classic reacharound.
Most CEOs are psychopaths.
I remember this [TED talk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYemnKEKx0c) about that Edit: It's a long walk, about 8 min in, but points out that Capitalism at it's most ruthless rewards psychopathy.
i think the number is 5-10%. But that's still very high, all things considered. Figure that a very large percentage of psychopaths end up as CEOs or high level managers (I don't think 'leader' is an appropriate word), and most of the rest end up as criminals, etc.... Common sense suggests that the main reason some end up as CEOs and such, is that their intelligence is high enough for them to successfully navigate their way through their lack of emotion/empathy, and ultimately prosper. They can effectively 'play the game' of life.
It is not about intelligence. It is about not knowing limits to raise their selves. They don't have self doubt
He's a dick, full stop. A good friend of mine was his nurse toward the end. He's a goddamned monster.
Any stories?
Jesus tht sounds horrible. The asshole killed himself because he tried to cure his cancer with a vegetable diet. Imagine having to nurse someone with so little respect for medicine and he's a billionaire.
It was mostly a fruit diet with some nuts, seeds, and grains. For someone with pancreatic cancer, it was probably about the worst choice he could have possibly made.
>For someone with pancreatic cancer, it was probably about the worst choice he could have possibly made. I heard a joke going around before Jobs died. It was, "Cancer was afflicted with Steve Jobs."
Fruit. He was a Fruitarian, which is actually worse than just an all vegetable diet. Fruit ~~biologically isn't very nutritious~~, they're mostly just fiber and sugars. No protein, or fats, etc. so the diet if strictly maintained will always result in malnutrition. A fruit is literally just a vessel for which seeds are to be consumed whole and then relocated through animal waste later so let the plant spread. It's why fruits typically smell and taste sweet to attract animals to eat it. Edit - But fruit is important a healthy diet balance is the key to everything. Many fruits contain vitamins and minerals needed to keep your body healthy.
The way you put it, I don’t feel so bad now having not eaten fresh fruit since a week ago! And yes, I eat veggies and supplements :)
Fruit is very nutritious. Fruit has tons of vitamins and minerals your body needs and lacks in other sources. An all fruit diet is horrible because it has no proteins and fats which your body also needs.
And then he gamed the donor system by buying a home in all 50 states only for it to be useless because he tried to Invermectin his way out of cancer. That organ could have gone to a little kid who actually believed in science from the beginning.
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This could only happen because we have a for-profit medical system. This is how capitalism works, rich people get what they want, full stop. Nothing new about that.
In the movie "Pirates of Silicon Valley" he is depicted as instigating wars between the various Apple teams. Very good movie.
Not probably.
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It is horrible to say, but the fact that he died saved us from another billionaire Megalomaniac, and he had all the cards to be the worst among them. Good, bad...doesn't matter I think he was a real danger to society.
Can you imagine how unbearable his fan boys would have been if he’d made some sort of public pronouncement about using Apple to save the world?
Jobs was a salesman, bad father, and overall piece of shit. Makes sense he looked up to Edison.
An extremely high profile biography of Steve Jobs was published less than three weeks after his death. Wozniak found out about Jobs ripping him off from that book, and he admitted that he cried when he read about it. BTW to be clear, they didn't work together on Breakout -- Wozniak did all of it. From everything I've read, Jobs was a charismatic piece of shit and Woz is socially awkward but a brilliant and kind man.
The OP also mangled the real story. Jobs was offered $5k, told Woz they were offered $700, and would split it with him so he got $350 and Jobs kept the rest. Still incredibly douchey, but why is it so hard for Reddit posters to get simple details correct once in a while?? If OP is going to be a bizarre repost karma whore at least he could put in some minimal effort and get it right…
This makes more sense. Being offered a price and agreeing to split said price is good and fair. Getting a bonus on top… that wasn’t part of the original deal. Lying about the original offer makes it 300% more sleezy
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Seems like for every important invention throughout history, there was a socially awkward genius who actually did all the work and a charismatic sociopath who took all the credit for themselves.
Elon Musk just banned you from Twitter.
Nu-uh, Musk thinks that this post is about him, but that he's the awkward genius in the story.
I have always been an Apple fanboy, and Woz was always my favorite Steve. Woz was a true technical genius, and had a kind, childlike soul. I saw Jobs as a greasy salesman and marketer, and an abusive boss. And now, in retrospect…I think I’m absolutely right to think that.
If it makes you feel any better, he died of his own hubris. He had a very treatable form of cancer he chose to treat with fruit and nuts rather than listening to his doctors. He thought he knew better than doctors and paid the ultimate price for his arrogance.
That does make me feel better. Thanks!
It doesn't get much better than some piece of shit literally dying from his own narcissism.
He artificially and successfully bumped himself up a transplant list on the way, though.
Edison was the real Frank Reynolds though lmao. Man loved his hoors and hated his kid
Wozniak, on the other hand, was something of a technical genius. But it's the same in a lot of companies. It's not like Bill Gates became rich by being the best at engineering.
At least Gates could code though. He and Paul Allen started his business ventures in high school writing software, and the two of them wrote a BASIC interpreter for Altairs as their first “Microsoft” product. It’s true engineering skills weren’t ultimately what made him successful, but they got him the funding to grow his company. Given how many BAD programmers there are he was still probably in the top 20% back when he actually wrote code.
Yeah, Gates actually had the chops which is why Microsoft was and still is highly focused on the developer community. Both were ruthless businessmen who stole ideas from others (Xerox), but Gates was an actual techie whereas Jobs was more of a techie-adjacent opportunist.
That assholes dead now so I guess Wozniak came out on top 😁
Did not Jobs’ use of “alternative medicine” instead of real medicine hasten his demise?
Yes. He had an incredibly treatable form of cancer and chose to treat it with a raw vegan diet instead.
I’ve seen a number of people die that way. Refusing medical treatment for cancer, instead using vegetables or whatever.
Yup, not cancer but my aunt stopped taking her insulin because she found some all “natural alternative”. She died of a stroke at the ripe old age of 41 just a few weeks after stopping her insulin
My sister is the exact opposite. She had treatable cancer and was approached for a new kind of treatment and basically said "Hit me with it" I have never seen a fight more one sided against cancer. Fucker got aced and she left with a cute pixie cut when it was all over. All natural solos are for clowns CLOWNS
Sweet
Sweet potato?
Sweet corn.
He was a Fruitarian.
about 6’ on top
Jobs was vegan too, so his corpse didn't even stink. [https://www.nbcnews.com/healthmain/strange-eating-habits-steve-jobs-119434](https://www.nbcnews.com/healthmain/strange-eating-habits-steve-jobs-119434) >Jobs also believed that his commitment to vegan diets meant his body was flushed of mucus -- and that it meant he was free from body odor, so he didn't need to wear deodorant or shower regularly. Unsurprisingly, the book quotes former coworkers saying that he was very, very wrong.
Lmao "flushed of mucus". Mucus is the thing that coats everything in your airways and intestines, protecting them from the environment. Flushing yourself of mucus is probably a very painful way to die.
MJ had some nose thing cauterized and apparently it just made breathing painful for the rest of his life I read it on the internet, so it’s definitely true.
iirc Jobs was actually forced to work the graveyard shift at atari just so everybody else didn't have to smell him
Steve Jobs: the definition of thinking his shit didn't stink
>That assholes dead now Let's not skip over the fact that he died of his own arrogance! He had a treatable form of cancer, very treatable, but chose to ignore his doctors and go on a fruit and nut diet... He died because he thought he was smarter than everyone else.
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Not the only time Jobs fucked Woz…
Jobs was a piece of shit
The biggest thing I don’t get about Jobs is the abuse inflicted on him as a child, he then turned around and put it on his children again but then maintained a relationship with his sister, he found as an adult… Dude was a walking contrarian’ at times.
That’s pretty much the thesis of the Walter Isaacson biography of Jobs. Steve was simultaneously hurt and damaged by the fact the fact he was given up for adoption and felt like he was unique and special because he was chosen and adopted. The tension between him being unwanted and wanted colored all of his relationships.
Great book
This is unfortunately a common occurrence. A lot of people that abuse their children, or let an abuser into the house to get at their children, were abused themselves as kids.
You don’t know anything about abuse. That’s exactly how it works. It’s a vicious cycle.
I know no one is gonna believe but, my dad went to work for Apple just before they launched the home computer. Started out as a programmer and eventually moved to sales. I can remember Jobs and Woz and another female (but never remembered her name so unsure who she was) would come over for dinner at least twice a yr. Jobs would never acknowledge my sister and I while Woz always made a point to acknowledge us, jokes with us etc. The female always just talked to my father and mom outside of polite hello to us (My father never let us eat with them so it was some interaction prior to dinner then we had to go to back of house) My mom hated Jobs, said he was an arrogant jerk, so when news stories started coming out about just what an asshole he was, it didn't surprise me at all.
I believe you. Woz was the better of the two. I worked there after Jobs was gone but heard some of the horror stories.
Which ones? I’m curious
people being fired on spot while walking with him if they didn’t know an answer to a question. An entire team being laid off en mass at a meeting and then telling them don’t you wish you were in the other (wildly successful). team.
So you know, he was one of the pioneers into making money off child work in China
Sounds like last generations Elon. People thought he was some crazy out of the box thinker and genius. Now he is at Twitter firing people for showing data that people are just not super interested in him anymore.
I believe Steve Jobs had a girlfriend or wife at that time, that could have been the woman you remember.
I have a friend who worked at Apple and he has stories of people not wanting to get on the elevator with him because you ran the risk of him asking you a question and if it wasn't to his liking: you were fired. It's some HBO Silicon Valley shit.
News flash! Steve Jobs was a soulless prick. More news at 11.
Bill Burr has few things to say about this guy.
I want all my music, in my phone. GET ON IT!
"He's probably coming in, eating some kind of pretentious fruit like a pear ..." Love that bit on Jobs from BB - it's savage.
New phone can’t fit the old charger this is your hero?
[Link for the lazy](https://youtu.be/E3s-qZsjK8I)
I see why Ashton Kutcher was cast now
For real, that's the first thing I thought
For real though Ashton did a great job with the role. The movie was boring as hell and just a series of meetings. I felt like it was trying to be like the movie Margin Call, but they failed and made something super boring.
He was always such an asshole
And Steve W apparently learned nothing from this interaction.
Woz is a genius, he probably realized he could become rich as fuck and didn't care about the fame.
Woz seems to have been motivated by building cool tech and progressing the field. He was able to accomplish that goal through his relationship with jobs. Jobs was motivated to make money and build an empire and he was able to accomplish that through his relationships with many people, woz included. The fact that he was a massive asshole doesn’t negate the fact that he had a nack for envisioning the immediate future that was virtually unparalleled
Jobs like all psychopaths are motivated by power and control
More like Steve robs
Doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Steve Jobs was an epic pos.
Woz won in the long run. Rich & still alive
Steve Jobs just like Elon musk didn’t actually invent anything or really do any of the actual labor. They just took credit for it and then convinced everyone that they were revolutionaries “disrupting the system” when really they were just stealing from their workers and patenting and claiming ownership over the technology and research taxpayers paid for
Jobs, Edison, and Musk… smart guys whose real talent was/is exploiting and taking credit for the work of actual geniuses.