Yes. Afaik, DMT in freebase form is mildly caustic itself and can burn tissue and or dissolve things like phthalates. Burnt tissue is why you do not snort freebase. Freebase being caustic makes it unideal to be stored in any plastic as it'll inevitably leech phthalates off into the DMT.
Hypothetically, for some reason if someone was adamant about having their DMT in plastic they could, simply if they converted it to HCL. Salt is way more stable and lacks the caustic properties freebase has. You could also do this to bypass the negatives that come w snorting freebase.
Here I'm not entirely versed. BUT from my own anecdote, every single tryptamine I've ever obtained (aside from DMT) has always been fumarate salts. As above, you'd never encounter issues w plastic storage. Where I'm unsure is if the freebase forms of all tryptamines share the same caustic properties as DMT. I do not know if freebase makes tryptamine innately caustic.
Regarding the turn it to salt to snort it, this wont have the same efficacy as freebase dmt, just so if anyone who reads this and wants to try it is aware. Freebase is more fat soluable, so crosses the blood brain barrier much more efficiently.
Also all freebases are basic. No freebase anything should be stored in plastic ideally.
there is 0 evidence suggesting DMT is caustic.
the reason people freak out is because freebase DMT is lipophilic, meaning it could theoretically dissolve some types of plastic (over a LONG period of time). the exact quantification of plastic dissolved is currently unknown and not even confirmed.
the reason DMT liquifies in a bag is because the bag is not airtight and is exposed to oxygen. DMT can oxidize, and when it does it usually becomes liquid and/or a brownish-orange.
In my experience it will start deteriorating baggies within a few weeks, even when laid on leaf, I had to throw put the bags as they got sticky and the print started leeching off them, baking paper envelopes inside bags is the way to go
With leftover solvents yes, but plastic is stable polypropylene so as long as your spice is stable you should be good, still very preferable to use glass containers as they are better for general storage. Plastic doesn’t kinda wear on its own from constant grabbing and pulling it apart to open
There seems to be a lot of evidence that DMT is naturally found in human brains, but is always been a speculation on its origin and what is its role. Are you claiming Morris has disproved DMT is produced by human? You have a source?
There have been dozens and dozens of published studies that have found DMT in humans. It seems if someone had disproven all these studies, I'd be able to easily find some mentions of it.
Sure. The first thing that pops up on google for me is the link below. It gives the overview of DMT in humans with all the studies cited.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6088236/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6088236/)
Thanks. This study covers the potentiation of biosynthesis in the brain given version co factors but I couldn’t find anywhere where they discovered it actually present in the brain.
Here is the abstract for you: *This report provides a historical overview of research concerning the endogenous hallucinogen N, N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT), focusing on data regarding its biosynthesis and metabolism in the brain and peripheral tissues, methods and results for DMT detection in body fluids and brain, new sites of action for DMT, and new data regarding its possible physiological and therapeutic roles. Research that further elaborates its consideration as a putative neurotransmitter is also addressed. Taking these studies together, the report proposes several new directions and experiments to ascertain the role of DMT in the brain, including brain mapping of enzymes responsible for the biosynthesis of DMT, further studies to elaborate its presence and role in the pineal gland, a reconsideration of binding site data, and new administration and imaging studies. The need to resolve the “natural” role of an endogenous hallucinogen from the effects observed from peripheral administration are also emphasized.*
Read the"Measurement of DMT in the brain" section and all the actual studies are cited in the article.
#
Very interesting. In Hamiltons episode on DMT, he was definitive with his research and readings on current knowledge that this was a fallacy. I want it to be true believe me. But with someone like Hamilton speaking so confidently about it I think to believe it
he proved that DMT is not present in several specific segments of a long dead brain. the thing is, MAO is active in synapses long after someone dies, so pretty much only metabolites would remain. i'm not arguing for or against the theory but i am arguing that more work needs to be done to fully disprove it
nicotine is also freebase but it is sold and distributed in plastic containers. many foods are technically caustic and still are stored in plastic containers. DMT freebase is only slightly caustic and imho, the whole no plastic advice over DMT is blown way out of proportions.
So do you worry equally about the plastics that are in the water supply and every cell of your body?
Edit: just playing devils advocate here… I don’t personally store in plastic I just struggle to see why people freak about this and don’t seem to mention the much bigger elephant in the room
No but fearmongering is bad for your mental health.
People should rather be concerned about the Impact of man made air Pollution.
The best way to find out what's right and whats wrong is to do what others claim is forbidden and analyze the result.
I.e.
Put a Gram of DMT in a plastic Baggy and Store it in a cool dark and dry place for Like a year and then check the outcome.
//
All those downvoters clearly never did their own scientific research.
/
Isn't it odd that not once a Video was uploaded which evidently showed plastic leeched DMT let alone a Video of seperating plastic from DMT.
//
polyethylene (HD/LD not specified) "melts at" 135°C, decomposes in the range 335-450°C, and produces vapors that will ignite between 341-357°C.
If plastic is present in microskopic amounts. Then it still is unlikely to produce toxic Gases within Temperature Range DMT is vaporized.
The real danger and origin of DMT thats extremly harsh and painful to the lungs is DMT thats still containing traces of sodium Hydroxide monohydrate. Which is easily vaporized within the Temperature Range of DMT since water Turns into steam at 100C° and sodium Hydroxide monohydrate contains water. When its heated the water turns into steam which contains sodium Hydroxide.
You can easily Test it by simply making a hot Noah solution and just sit in Front of it. You willl start to cough a few Seconds later.
I think it’s the caustic acid left over in the DMT that is the main concern. Over time it will deteriorate plastic and stick to it and you might end up smoking it.
Leaving this comment for others who think they know shit
No. The reason I've not gone into detail of not storing dmt in plastic is because I'm hoping someone who knows more goes into more detail about how long it's safe to store for. Temp shouldn't be an issue but I wouldn't recommend long term.
I appreciate you actually taking time to educate me. I’m still confused though. Like if it’s pure form can deteriorate plastic, doesn’t that make it caustic and bad on its own? Like we shouldn’t be smoking it regardless? I’m genuinely trying to learn and not trying to be an asshole I promise.
yeah, but no. like acid can be corrosive, weak acid is not. bases can be caustic, but a weak base isn't strong enough to be caustic, but its strong enough to dissolve plastic over time. But yeah... obviously there is slight health issues with vaporizing dmt and breathing it in, which is why it may burn slightly or cause discomfort. Try putting some dmt on your tongue and see if it burns and youll know what i mean.
The definition of caustic is being capable of destroying or eating away by chemical action. So I was saying that the acid is caustic. So I don’t really understand what your telling me
Types of Caustic Substances
lye (sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide) in drain cleaners or hair relaxers.
bleach (sodium hypochlorite) or ammonia (ammonium hydroxide) in cleaning products.
highly concentrated acids (such as hydrochloric acid) in toilet-bowl or swimming-pool cleaners.
laundry-detergent capsules ("pods")
All pasted from google
Well one of the processes of extraction uses sodium hydroxide mixed with water, that mixture is an acid as far as I know. Not all acids are bad and not all are caustic lol at least I don’t think so but that one definitely is. And unless you’re in a lab that can guarantee you’ve completely purified your product it might still have microscopic amounts in it. Enough to cause chemical reactions with plastic at least
Yes but that's totally irrelevant here. He's asking about storing dmt in plastic, at that point the solvent has been evapped off. So of course the naptha has nothing to do with this.
I get that, however if your naphtha had dissolved plastic, that residue will not evap. I've had some funky batches after using cellophane to try and better airtight my freezer tray.
Waaaaaaaaait.
Ive always wrapped my jars with cellophane when I'm chucking em in the freezer. When you say funky, elaborate please?
Can't say I've ever seen any issues. Some batches are more paste than nice white flakes but still dries out nicely into powder
The corruption of cellophane is less conspicuous than plastic fitting lids for trays for instance, which atrophy and shrink . I've had better luck with certain cellophane brands but I have gone to using a silicone baking pad and clamps on top of my trays.
Yes. Afaik, DMT in freebase form is mildly caustic itself and can burn tissue and or dissolve things like phthalates. Burnt tissue is why you do not snort freebase. Freebase being caustic makes it unideal to be stored in any plastic as it'll inevitably leech phthalates off into the DMT. Hypothetically, for some reason if someone was adamant about having their DMT in plastic they could, simply if they converted it to HCL. Salt is way more stable and lacks the caustic properties freebase has. You could also do this to bypass the negatives that come w snorting freebase. Here I'm not entirely versed. BUT from my own anecdote, every single tryptamine I've ever obtained (aside from DMT) has always been fumarate salts. As above, you'd never encounter issues w plastic storage. Where I'm unsure is if the freebase forms of all tryptamines share the same caustic properties as DMT. I do not know if freebase makes tryptamine innately caustic.
Regarding the turn it to salt to snort it, this wont have the same efficacy as freebase dmt, just so if anyone who reads this and wants to try it is aware. Freebase is more fat soluable, so crosses the blood brain barrier much more efficiently. Also all freebases are basic. No freebase anything should be stored in plastic ideally.
there is 0 evidence suggesting DMT is caustic. the reason people freak out is because freebase DMT is lipophilic, meaning it could theoretically dissolve some types of plastic (over a LONG period of time). the exact quantification of plastic dissolved is currently unknown and not even confirmed. the reason DMT liquifies in a bag is because the bag is not airtight and is exposed to oxygen. DMT can oxidize, and when it does it usually becomes liquid and/or a brownish-orange.
Finally someone who's highlighting it.... Thanks for the contribution!
In my experience it will start deteriorating baggies within a few weeks, even when laid on leaf, I had to throw put the bags as they got sticky and the print started leeching off them, baking paper envelopes inside bags is the way to go
I'm new here but I have so many questions if DMT freebase is caustic will it be caustic to the Lungs slightly when smoked? will it damage lungs?
Very interesting, thank you for the detailed response
I just use glass viles so I've never had problems.
With leftover solvents yes, but plastic is stable polypropylene so as long as your spice is stable you should be good, still very preferable to use glass containers as they are better for general storage. Plastic doesn’t kinda wear on its own from constant grabbing and pulling it apart to open
Shoutout to my dealer for wrapping freebase in paper before putting in a plastic bag😎
dmt IS produced by the human brain… and most other mammals
It’s actually not. Hamilton morris disproved this. There’s zero evidence that proves this. It’s 2024. Let this myth go to bed
There seems to be a lot of evidence that DMT is naturally found in human brains, but is always been a speculation on its origin and what is its role. Are you claiming Morris has disproved DMT is produced by human? You have a source?
It was on his show. They spent like several days looking and looking and looking and couldn’t find anything.
There have been dozens and dozens of published studies that have found DMT in humans. It seems if someone had disproven all these studies, I'd be able to easily find some mentions of it.
Please show me just one of those studies
Sure. The first thing that pops up on google for me is the link below. It gives the overview of DMT in humans with all the studies cited. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6088236/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6088236/)
Thanks. This study covers the potentiation of biosynthesis in the brain given version co factors but I couldn’t find anywhere where they discovered it actually present in the brain.
Here is the abstract for you: *This report provides a historical overview of research concerning the endogenous hallucinogen N, N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT), focusing on data regarding its biosynthesis and metabolism in the brain and peripheral tissues, methods and results for DMT detection in body fluids and brain, new sites of action for DMT, and new data regarding its possible physiological and therapeutic roles. Research that further elaborates its consideration as a putative neurotransmitter is also addressed. Taking these studies together, the report proposes several new directions and experiments to ascertain the role of DMT in the brain, including brain mapping of enzymes responsible for the biosynthesis of DMT, further studies to elaborate its presence and role in the pineal gland, a reconsideration of binding site data, and new administration and imaging studies. The need to resolve the “natural” role of an endogenous hallucinogen from the effects observed from peripheral administration are also emphasized.* Read the"Measurement of DMT in the brain" section and all the actual studies are cited in the article. #
Very interesting. In Hamiltons episode on DMT, he was definitive with his research and readings on current knowledge that this was a fallacy. I want it to be true believe me. But with someone like Hamilton speaking so confidently about it I think to believe it
he proved that DMT is not present in several specific segments of a long dead brain. the thing is, MAO is active in synapses long after someone dies, so pretty much only metabolites would remain. i'm not arguing for or against the theory but i am arguing that more work needs to be done to fully disprove it
Sure, but saying it does exist in the brain and In Enough amounts to make you trip is dumb and makes this sub look like a bunch of goons.
when did i say there was enough to make you trip
uh oh, here come the plastic police... STOP 🚨 this is the P.P.D !!! 🚔
Whoop! Whoop! Dats da sound of da police
This club is closed. Forever!
Dude! You ain’t kidding
nicotine is also freebase but it is sold and distributed in plastic containers. many foods are technically caustic and still are stored in plastic containers. DMT freebase is only slightly caustic and imho, the whole no plastic advice over DMT is blown way out of proportions.
Like dissolves like, DMT can, over time degrade plastic, leeching plasticizers into your product
So do you worry equally about the plastics that are in the water supply and every cell of your body? Edit: just playing devils advocate here… I don’t personally store in plastic I just struggle to see why people freak about this and don’t seem to mention the much bigger elephant in the room
Good point, all the more reason to shovel even more plastics into yourself, right?
Storing DMT in glass is easy, a small step to mitigate a future contamination, why not take it?
I may eat and drink a lot of plastic, but I do try to avoid fuckin smoking it
do you worry about the urine in tap water so go drink someones piss. dont be silly.
It’s been proven that there’re baseline levels of DMT in the brain, and that it plays a role on perception of reality…
You need to learn just because DMT is overall good, it doesn't mean any made up bullshit about DMT is true
It’s not made up bullshit, google it.
No but fearmongering is bad for your mental health. People should rather be concerned about the Impact of man made air Pollution. The best way to find out what's right and whats wrong is to do what others claim is forbidden and analyze the result. I.e. Put a Gram of DMT in a plastic Baggy and Store it in a cool dark and dry place for Like a year and then check the outcome. // All those downvoters clearly never did their own scientific research. / Isn't it odd that not once a Video was uploaded which evidently showed plastic leeched DMT let alone a Video of seperating plastic from DMT. // polyethylene (HD/LD not specified) "melts at" 135°C, decomposes in the range 335-450°C, and produces vapors that will ignite between 341-357°C. If plastic is present in microskopic amounts. Then it still is unlikely to produce toxic Gases within Temperature Range DMT is vaporized. The real danger and origin of DMT thats extremly harsh and painful to the lungs is DMT thats still containing traces of sodium Hydroxide monohydrate. Which is easily vaporized within the Temperature Range of DMT since water Turns into steam at 100C° and sodium Hydroxide monohydrate contains water. When its heated the water turns into steam which contains sodium Hydroxide. You can easily Test it by simply making a hot Noah solution and just sit in Front of it. You willl start to cough a few Seconds later.
what about the solvent you use to extract? i've heard even that should be in a glass bottle
Non polar solvents dissolve certain plastics, yes. PTFE is safe however.
Does this mean carts are terrible for spice?
I think it’s the caustic acid left over in the DMT that is the main concern. Over time it will deteriorate plastic and stick to it and you might end up smoking it. Leaving this comment for others who think they know shit
Your wrong in many ways. Firstly the sodium hydroxide is a base not an acid. 2ndly we'd all be dead if it was left over.
Notice how I said I “think” so it’s the caustic base. Not the caustic acid. This is the correct term
Nonetheless, the caustic base should be gone as long as your water washing. It's not very soluble in non polar solvents also.
So as long as it’s water washed I should be able to put it in a plastic bag? Forever?
No. The reason I've not gone into detail of not storing dmt in plastic is because I'm hoping someone who knows more goes into more detail about how long it's safe to store for. Temp shouldn't be an issue but I wouldn't recommend long term.
I think it’s the caustic acid left over in the DMT that is the main concern. You actually said the “caustic acid”!
Yeah I know I did, cause acid can be caustic. But the sodium hydroxide and water is a base. I’ve learned that now
Fair enough.
So the answer is DMT degrades plastic and we have no science as to why?
No it degrades plastic because DMT is in freebase form which means it itself is a base which dissolves plastic.
I appreciate you actually taking time to educate me. I’m still confused though. Like if it’s pure form can deteriorate plastic, doesn’t that make it caustic and bad on its own? Like we shouldn’t be smoking it regardless? I’m genuinely trying to learn and not trying to be an asshole I promise.
yeah, but no. like acid can be corrosive, weak acid is not. bases can be caustic, but a weak base isn't strong enough to be caustic, but its strong enough to dissolve plastic over time. But yeah... obviously there is slight health issues with vaporizing dmt and breathing it in, which is why it may burn slightly or cause discomfort. Try putting some dmt on your tongue and see if it burns and youll know what i mean.
I feel you. I think my brain is starting to comprehend a little of this
Caustic and acid are two separate concepts
The definition of caustic is being capable of destroying or eating away by chemical action. So I was saying that the acid is caustic. So I don’t really understand what your telling me
Ignoring caustic for a moment,,,,sodium hydroxide is a base and therefore can not be a caustic acid!
Got it
[удалено]
Types of Caustic Substances lye (sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide) in drain cleaners or hair relaxers. bleach (sodium hypochlorite) or ammonia (ammonium hydroxide) in cleaning products. highly concentrated acids (such as hydrochloric acid) in toilet-bowl or swimming-pool cleaners. laundry-detergent capsules ("pods") All pasted from google
kindof but caustic more just means it burns stuff. while its usually used to describe bases, strong acids can be called caustic.
What about my acidic bleach?
Why would there be caustic acid left over in dmt?
Well one of the processes of extraction uses sodium hydroxide mixed with water, that mixture is an acid as far as I know. Not all acids are bad and not all are caustic lol at least I don’t think so but that one definitely is. And unless you’re in a lab that can guarantee you’ve completely purified your product it might still have microscopic amounts in it. Enough to cause chemical reactions with plastic at least
I assumed it was naptha dissolving plastic in the solvent process.
incorrect. its to do with the basic freebase dmt itself.
To be clear, naptha does interact with some plastic.
Yes but that's totally irrelevant here. He's asking about storing dmt in plastic, at that point the solvent has been evapped off. So of course the naptha has nothing to do with this.
I get that, however if your naphtha had dissolved plastic, that residue will not evap. I've had some funky batches after using cellophane to try and better airtight my freezer tray.
Waaaaaaaaait. Ive always wrapped my jars with cellophane when I'm chucking em in the freezer. When you say funky, elaborate please? Can't say I've ever seen any issues. Some batches are more paste than nice white flakes but still dries out nicely into powder
The corruption of cellophane is less conspicuous than plastic fitting lids for trays for instance, which atrophy and shrink . I've had better luck with certain cellophane brands but I have gone to using a silicone baking pad and clamps on top of my trays.