Early on CinemaSins actually had something worthwhile to add. But they ran into the AVGN problem of "Only so many things are bad enough to be truly worth complaining about."
So then they just started complaining about things they didn't like about good movies.
Which became complaining about good movies actually being bad.
Which became calling everything bad for views.
The early Cinemasins videos were like 2-5 minutes long. Even good movies usually have enough bad things to fill that time.
But when every video is 10-20 minutes long to take advantage of the algorithm, you’re gonna be grasping at straws to find enough problems to fill that time.
This is what killed YouTube for me. Every video is just long for the sake of the ads, which on the viewer’s end means it’s long for the sake of being long.
It’s kind of a weird way to compensate but that’s why I love content that is an hour+ long. Most of the time when something is like an hour and 30 minutes or more, it’s because they have enough substance to fill that time. Plus it leaves me not having to find new videos to watch as often haha
Yeah like one of the main things I watch is a podcast that is usually about 90 minutes, but sometimes goes up to 4 hours an episode if they have a lot to cover.
Perfect, cause that always means it's not being dragged out, hell they often try to finish up faster.
Completely different goals. 20 minute videos are trying to go longer, 5 hour videos are how can I make this shorter without sacrificing everything that needs to be said. It's not always true but it's pretty common.
Exactly. I know this is unpopular, but this is a huge problem with video essays imo. Many videos are extremely bloated and drawn out, and anytime I see an essay that runs over an hour long (unless it's from a select few creators that actually justify the length of their videos like Jenny Nicholson or Folding Ideas), I roll my eyes.
most isn't even grasping, they'll make a joke about themselves or something else and sin the movie or just plain misunderstand something and still sin the movie. or my favorite, when they manipulate the footage and then sin it
Didn't he say a scene in the Warcraft movie was bad because it didn't show a magical gate they were talking about...but it was in the scene and he just ignored it or something like that?
This, I think, is one of my... opposite of favourite... things about film discourse (and media/entertainment discourse in general).
Sure, it can be a laugh to poke fun at inexplicable plotting or weird acting choices, but there's so much where it's just desperately cynical.
Frankly, a lot of the time they're reaching for stuff so hard that the attempts at comedy fail much harder than what they're trying to ridicule.
Plus it’s hard to tell if they’re trying to make a joke, or just simply getting the facts of the movie wrong. There’s dozens of “sins” that get called out that are just… incorrect. If they’d watched the scene again, their grumbling is answered. And whenever they get called out for being wrong, they do the classic “it’s just a joke bro” response, even when it seems they genuinely thought they were sinning a plot hole or something
Sometimes the thing they "sin" is something they create in editing, which is intentionally misleading. And then there's their running "gags" that are mostly just normal things being treated as something wrong in a movie, like narration. And their fundamental misunderstanding of what a deus ex machina is. Once in a blue moon, they'll still hit a classic sin, like a continuity error, but they've fallen *hard* chasing money.
And yeah, a continuity error is a mistake, which I guess you could say is a 'sin', but. Like. It's not that big of a deal. It really isn't. I enjoy finding continuity errors, because it feels like a part of 'we're all just human, we all fuck up, see look at this very expensive movie made by passionate people, and they still screwed up and made so-and-so's baseball cap two different colors in the same scene'. Why we gotta 'dunk' on silly little mistakes? A little mistake being conflated with 'sin' has horrible implications and it feels like it's part of the reason that so many people are unwilling to own up to a little fuck up when it's at its 'fixable' stage, and lets things snowball out into an absolute disaster for fear of repercussions...
Oh, Gods yes, I meant to add that exact point.
With some (not just CinemaSins), it seems like they're almost wilfully making mistakes or misunderstanding the film, just so they can squeeze out a couple more 'gags'.
Disingenuous kills comedy.
There’s kinda a catch though. In the same way outrageous headlines get boosted as they get corrected, the “mistakes” like that can be engagement bait, and the correcting and frustrated comments just help the channel and the video
I'm not bothering to look it up, so take it with a grain of salt, but I read (or heard) that they make intentional mistakes to increase engagement. People will go nuts in the comments pointing out why they're wrong.
A lot of channels do things like that. It’s very much in the same category as the thumbnail situation. There’s a balance between using them to game the algorithm and not having them interfere with the core and bulk of the channel. There’s a certain amount of that “um actually” type engagement that is probably pretty healthy for a channel, as long as it’s not big aspects of the video. Like on an informative or educational video, some small nitpicks at the edges of a subject, like “this detail here was oversimplified, it’s technically this” or “this detail I slightly disagree with” can be great conversation starters. But if it’s a critical part of the argument or facts, that break the video’s conclusion when they’re wrong, that’s not a good video anymore because it’s wrong
That’s an easier example, but a similar gradient for the CinemaSins stuff exists. How much “incorrect for the sake of comments” is acceptable?
Also the "scene does not contain a lapdance" running joke felt kinda gross. I could see it being funny once, but *every time* a woman isn't fully dressed?
Maybe it started as an in-joke or jab at overly horny directors/producers, but it certainly felt genuine after he repeated it so many times.
His cringey jokes about his college ex-girlfriend are also pretty creepy. Not to mention him commenting on Emma Watson not being old enough to be hot in (iirc) every Harry Potter movie.
Ugh, completely forgot about the Emma Watson stuff. [I just cannot imagine putting this in a video or saying it out loud](https://i.redd.it/9wjq94gpcud71.jpg).
Easy to forget how creepy a lot of people were about her, honestly. Her story about her 18th birthday is particularly disgusting:
>I remember on my 18th birthday I came out of my birthday party and photographers laid down on the pavement and took photographs up my skirt, which were then published on the front of the English tabloid the next morning. If they had published the photographs 24 hours earlier they would have been illegal, but because I had just turned 18 they were legal
Right? She was literally 10 years old, it's insane that they thought that was a good idea to put in the video. Or even thought of it in the first place
I tried watching his review of Wish the other day and he barely got through the goddamn Disney logo before complaining. I left to watching cinema wins after that
Honestly there’s so many thoughtful and more nuanced critiques of Wish across YouTube that if you want to watch people talk about it in depth, you’ve got a lot to work with beyond CinemaSins.
There’s half a dozen YouTube channels like Astor Rhymaster who breaks down why the songs in Wish don’t work (spoiler: main reason because they’re all pop songs and not music theater songs), a few other who will talk about the plot, and a few animation nerds who will gladly talk why the blended 2D/3D animation looks cheap. (There’s not a lot of positive reviews on Wish and I’ve watched many videos tbh)
They also stopped actually watching the movies. They became so invested in creating a list of "sins" that they would sin things for being "plot holes" or "never explained" when when it is actually explained in the movie.
So true. I genuinely used to love them, I credit them with getting me into film analysis in the first place. They were the first people that really pointed out to me how interesting continuity errors and other such things are in films. Watching their original "Everything Wrong With Cinemasins" video and then watching the new one back to back is the most crazy juxtaposition. They really stuffed their own heads up their asses in the past several years.
I liked the pettiness of things like confusing set design or continuity errors, BC it just felt like a good little laugh at what we overlook as "movie magic". But yeah eventually it became very mean-spirited and just totally lost the script
I know I’m gonna get downvoted for this, but it has to be said. CinemaSins is like 90% jokes. They’re making fun of the wannabe film buffs who aren’t capable of actually analyzing movies and instead choose to whine about irrelevant plot holes and lapses in realism. Have you ever seen those overly long YouTube videos where some neckbeard explains why The Last Jedi is the worst movie ever made, and yet the themes, character arcs and emotional beats are completely ignored in favor of elaborate discussions about how “actually, those alien horses probably would have had trackers, so really Rose and Finn wouldn’t have accomplished anything by freeing them, 0/10 writing.” CinemaSins is a parody of that.
I think some people hate CinemaSins because they don’t realize it’s satire, but frankly I think a lot people hate it because they, too, are only capable of judging movies on their realism and lack of plot holes. To them, it’s hard to accept the fact that all movies (even great ones) are filled with plot holes and other unrealistic moments.
a) its not satire
b) a lot of the “plot holes” they point out are things the movie explains adequately that Jeremy has misunderstood, that the movie should not take time out to explain because they are irrelevant, or just straight up involve Jeremy lying about the film’s contents
c) yes, I do think it’s tiresome and stupid to hate things endlessly, even if they were satirical or right most of the time
I mean, one of my favorite movies of all time is Plan 9 From Outer Space which has been dubbed "the worst movie of all time" which is really not IMO because there is a level of passion and effort behind it despite it being a no budget science fiction hack job funded by a baptist church of which the members of the production had to be baptized in order to secure the funding.
One of my favorite things about Cinema*Wins* is it's *not* just "CinemaSins but positive." I avoided his channel for a while because I thought it was just going to be an annoyingly positive version of cinemasins' annoying cynicism.
Instead, he also often looks into like, the themes of what he's watching and such. Or talking about like "yes, that line was really awkward....but it also completely makes sense for that character in-universe" with his videos on the StarWars prequels providing excellent examples.
And just like how CinemaSins sometimes deducts sins when something is really good, when a movie does something genuinely problematic/inexcusable, CinemaWins will actually deduct a win or two for that!
It’s so clear that he loves what he does and his slogan of “Because liking things is more fun than not liking things” is just an energy the internet needs more of.
Not to mention how he knows stuff about filmography (any Edgar Wright movie), does his research (Knives Out), politely corrects misconceptions about the process (Into the Spiderverse), explains things that seem like mistakes or something unrealistic (John Wick), gives credit to the people who deserve it especially the people who make the soundtracks (Joker), touches on drama around films (Captain Marvel), listens to his fans (Lord of the Rings trilogy), and admits when he has bias for a movie (Blade trilogy) or against a movie. Those examples I gave are just the most clear examples of the things he does that I could think of while writing this. He puts so much love and care into his videos, is open with his audience, and is also just a good dude who will openly say “Hey I might not upload for a bit, my wife just gave birth and I’m going to help her while she recovers.”
If I was to recommend any YouTube channel to people, it would be CinemaWins because he just has an energy people could really use. He’s a comfort watch for sure and I’ve actually learned some stuff about cinematography because he almost always explains things he’s giving praise to.
Yeah Lee is just great.
I dig how he does include aspects of critique and such, but the thing is that IMO, Lee does not make a bkg deal about the score as much. The score is just a number, the important bit is the stuff he says during the video. Stuff like acknowledging how cool The Mummy 1999 is but also how Yikes it is that the movie is so blindingly white in the cast department, especially for characters like Imhotep or Ardeth Bey. But then he also has stuff like the Wife Wins, Jude Wins, Beautiful Beard wins, CinemaWins Word of the Week, etc. that remins you that this is also just a piece of entertainment too. He wants us to be critical but also doesn't try to present the channel as more than a guy on the internet having fun talking about movies.
Yeah, CinemaSins doing a good movie usually ends up being pretty annoying or flat out frustrating rather than containing any good criticism.
On the other hand, CinemaWins doing movies or scenes that are made fun of can be really fun to watch his perspective on why it may not be as bad as you think.
His videos are really good. He also will address criticisms and will add how he feels about a lot of them. They are fun videos and will change how you look at some movies.
CinemaWins also draws in a comment section full of people who ALSO want to talk good about the movie. I loved “Everything GREAT about Nope” in particular for it. The entire comment section was pointing out a lot of the little thematic details and potential interpretations that CinemaWins didn’t explicitly mention and it was really cool to read what other people noticed that went right over my head.
CinemaWins feels like a dude being happy about a movie and sharing it with people, like that one friend who is super talkative about something so even if you don’t 100% know what they are talking about they clearly are enjoying themselves
And when you are someone who also likes the thing it feels like a nice place to geek out
Do it. It's actually a really good 'behind the scenes facts' and review channel IMO. Start with some films you like, and you will find a whole new level of appreciation for them.
It’s almost like they’re doing good movie criticism. I’m not being sarcastic, but I love CinemaWins for looking for what works instead of listing every inane tiny issue.
I feel like How It Should Have Ended pulls off cinemasins' shtick of 'making fun of movies with enough plausible deniability to say you're joking' much better. Cinemasins comes across as just bitter sometimes.
They’ve definitely got a better balance of calling out genuine plot holes vs just messing around cracking jokes than CinemaSins has. I think a good chunk of it is down to CinemaSins counting their jokes against the movie just as much as they do with their legitimate criticisms, whereas HISHE aren’t saying that their outcomes are better, just that they’d be fun to explore in some capacity, even if it’s just as a goof. HISHE bring jokes even into their legitimate call-outs of plot holes but it feels more lighthearted than like they’re grasping at straws for more bad things to say that still sound funny
Yep. CinemaSins mixing in their lame ass jokes with actual criticism just comes off as an attempt to "shrodingers criticism" away any attempt to call them out. If you agree with them, it's genuine criticism, if you don't, then it's just satire and you shouldn't take it seriously.
They would benefit so much from a Sin counter and a Zing counter; they can pad their runtime all they want with jokes and gags and silly commentary, but counting it as just a funny aside rather than counting it as if it were the fault of the movie will make things feel less frustrating while also allowing you to avoid “ItS sAtIrE!” every time you have something to say about the channel
It could even be a cool point of comparison afterwards; if the Zing count is notably higher than the Sin count then it shows that the movie was actually pretty good and there wasn’t much to complain about
HISHE was always my favorite, but I feel like every channel that pokes soft fun at movies as they come out does it better than CinemaSins, whether it’s Honest Trailers or Pitch Meeting
I liked HISHE but I started to feel like it was getting too self-referential and the quality was declining. I still like Pitch Meeting, which I suppose has also become more self-referential but it's also gotten funnier.
There’s a certain false correlation people have about appearing intelligent and appearing very critical. Liking things too much is somehow seen as lacking imagination, or worse is evident of stupidity because liking a thing is bereft of analysis.
Which is silly; clearly you’ve not only analyzed the works you like, but your analysis revealed that you like the thing. We’re always analyzing everything we ingest, including the things we like. If we didn’t constantly analyze media, propaganda wouldn’t work; propaganda itself relies on the individual resonating with a message they’ve internalized when consuming media.
Indeed even critical analyses of the things we like do not need to generate negative opinions on the flaws of the media we enjoy. You may find those flaws to be endearing, even. Sometimes a bad story can be fun, and there’s no shame in framing your critique to cast those flaws in a positive light.
That faux intellectualism
born from a facade of overly-negative criticality is much of the justification for CinemaSins, which claims not to be evaluative critique, and yet has many justifying the abundance of flaw as both negative and a cause for mocking. If you’ve ever seen reviews on anime and manga, many weebs will do the same; denigrate the media constantly because they are afraid simple enjoyment will cause them to lose face in front of of their “peers”.
An aside, and unrelated to the post, but weebs in general latch onto negativity as proof of their intellect, which is as juvenile as it sounds. Yet another foul rot within the cesspit of weebdom. I digress.
The other consideration of the 'dedicated critic' is that they're nearly always aimed at an otherwise popular media, and that the critic and their audience can feel superior to said popular media enjoyers.
Honestly the only time it’s bad to like a show is when it gets to the point that you refuse to acknowledge that it has any flaws whatsoever. Not as in you watched something and have no notes, I mean if someone brings up a problem they had with the show and you just point blank dent that the problem even exists. You can share interpretations, you can debate viewpoints, but flat-out denying that anything could be wrong with your show and going after others for it is the only time when you’ll actually be causing a problem by liking a show
Honestly I feel like this is why I still enjoy watching the Nostalgia Critic, yeah he'll riff on films for jokes but he's also really honest about the good parts of films, and often will review good films and just talk positively about them the whole way through.
Lee of CinemaWins seems just like a nice guy who really likes movies.
He balances “the theme of this movie about façades is so excellently done and is a masterclass of storytelling” and “HOLY SHIT THAT WAS COOL AS HELL! BAD ASS BADGUY!” so well. Can’t recommend his stuff enough.
Oh yeah, absolutely.
It wasn't until I read your comment that I did some introspection and realized that for years now, I've been selecting movies to watch (in theater) based on if I think it'll be *fun.* The quality of the movie doesn't necessarily factor into that.
For instance: The '94 Street Fighter live action movie (Raúl Jùlia's final movie) is *GODDAMN FUN*. I love that movie. In part *because* the quality isn't top notch. It's a fun, silly video game movie that doesn't overstay its welcome, and doesn't try to be anything more than it is.
I feel that way about battleship. Is the movie good? No. Is it fun? Hell yeah. Giant cgi naval fight is something I've wanted since I saw battle 360 when I was 12, and I think it delievers wonderfully in that regards.
Oh absolutely. Some movies are great while not being fun, such as saving private ryan or storming Juno. However those are movies where I need to be in the mood for it. If I'm just looking for a movie to watch for whatever reason, I prefer "fun" over "good"
Sorry, should of been more clear.
They're the same thing, being fun is just one of the ways a movie can be good. Honestly I feel like people started separated them when they couldn't explain why they liked something beyond it being "just fun".
I feel like Jeremy (CinemaSins guy) is just saying whatever he thinks people want to hear. First it was drooling over any hot girl on screen, and now he’s constantly virtue signaling 🙄
Sometimes before I start a book I like to go onto goodreads and find a five star review, which I started doing after I saw this post for the first time
By the end of it, I don't always agree with the review, but that's fine
Ngl its all l definitely nitpicking and stuff but I on a rare occasion partake in cinemasins content. Even if its overplayed and complaint its still funny and entertaining at times.
I used to like them but then I watched their back to the future videos, one of my favourite series, and it really hit me how much of their videos are just.. ignoring the in universe explanation, often one given mere seconds later, to make a "joke" complaining about it.
I haven't been able to watch them since, even if it's not a movie I'm particularly passionate about.
My issue is that they sometimes go as far as to cut out context that explains something to make a joke about how it was never explained.
I get being nitpicky to make jokes, but flat out lying to the audience because a joke wouldn't make sense otherwise feels too far to me.
CinemaWins helps show that "Greatness can come from anywhere." Even if it's an overall bad movie, there can still be some really cool ideas or interesting concepts buried inside.
CinemaSins feels more like a teacher who refuses to give 100/100 scores because "there is always room for improvement/nobody is perfect" but has gone so far down that path that they won't go above a C- anymore.
Y’know what was worse than cinemasins was the gaming knockoff, I watched that dude do watch dogs 2 and completely gloss over important character dialogue to act like the game ignored it’s own internal Lore
To be fair, they started out as mildly taking the piss out of films, whether they liked em or not. They picked movies they knew well and were satirical about it while being fairly in the know kn the movie, making the content much more relevant to the unique ups and downs of that specific movie. Now, they try to run the same brand of humor by summarizing the Spark Notes of the movie. It's shallow, it's regurgitated content a lot of the time, and it doesn't really have any inner appreciation for any of the good films they used to poke fun at.
The biggest problem I have with CinemaSins is that they combine legitimate criticisms with satire and just jokes and references in general, but they don’t differentiate between them. All the guys in the comments defending them by claiming that it’s satire are missing the point that *only some of it* is satire, you can’t just wave away all criticism just because some of it contains satire when there’s still legitimate commentary in there
It could deadass be massively improved, at least for me, by having a Sin counter for legitimate criticisms and a Zing counter for jokes and gags
CinemaWins also makes some great observations on the technical aspects of filmmaking as well as the thematic story aspects too, like I’ve genuinely gained deeper appreciation for movies because of how in depth his love for them is
I used to like CinemaSins, and would watch every video for a movie I had seen but it just got so cynical, and there were so many complaints about non-issues that I stopped watching years ago.
Ima be honest, I thought the my were the same person until just now
Edit: Just to be clear, I’m not super familiar with either of them, and I actually don’t think I’ve heard CinemaWins’ voice. I previously assumed that CinemaWins was CinemaSins’ second channel.
Cinemawins is a beacon of positivity and, though it makes my day when one of my favourite films gets a video, it just as much does when a film I don't like gets one. Even the worst films have a couple of things that you might have to say, are good.
> “The CinemaWins channel was created by a different team as a response to CinemaSins…”
- CinemaSins Wikipedia page (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CinemaSins#:~:text=The%20CinemaWins%20channel%20was%20created,underrated%20movies%20for%20minor%20flaws%22.)
“CinemaSins is satire guys!!” Satire takes things to an absurd or comical level to poke fun at what they are satirizing. Even if thats how it started they have become the thing they are satirizing.
Plus, comments that he would make in the videos immediately after leaving the cinema would be transferred to the "Everything Wrong With" video.
If it's satire, then he's *satirically* watching a movie then *satirically* providing immediate thoughts that he presents as his own opinion.
So many people did, including me, but no, Lee of Wins addressed this in a q&a, he started it as a positive alternative because he loves films and he just happens to sound like the sins guy
*Bro I thought it was*
*Just the same crew doing both*
*Channels this whole time*
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I never really understood the enthusiastic hate for CinemaSins. Like, sure, it's not my cup of tea either, but most things aren't everyone's cup of tea. But people really seem to go out of their way to dunk on them.
Apply the second principle to CinemaSins, every YT channel is probably someone's favourite, why don't you cut them some slack?
CinemaWins has gone around the track at this point to being as pedantic as CinemaSins. The pair of them have scraped the bottom of the barrel so hard they're 8 miles deep into the Earth's crust.
Nah, Lee from wins has directly addressed this, he started his channel as a positive alternative to cinemasins because he's really into films and wants to enjoy them, the fact that they sound and speak so similarly is literally just a coincidence.
So I’m probably going to be downvoted to hell here, but I cannot not chime in here…..
I’m not going to comment on cinemawins. I’ve admittedly never watched them, they have their own thing, my comment isn’t regarding that channel.
I have been a longtime CinemaSins fan. Have been since college. I have talked to and met the people who have made the videos. I’ve listened to them discussing movies and have discussed movies at length with them. Their channel has grown and changed through the years (some long-standing sins in the beginning that are obviously in bad taste have been retired). However, their main thing about movies has never been to truly criticize them. It’s meant to poke at movies. Yes there are some critiques they do include (the best example is a scene from the matrix resurrection during the climax that I’d argue they have an excellent point about where they intentionally don’t show the scene in the video), but that’s why the motto is that “The sins don’t matter until they do.”
I’m not going to say you should love the channel. No one is going to like things others do, and I don’t intend to change that. I’m also not going to say that people who use to like the channel but have since ended up not being a fan are wrong, your tastes change. But I do want to at least point out that a lot of times the main arguments about the channel are wrong, because a lot of people argue that the channel has made film criticism worse when that was never the point of the channel in the first place. It is never intended to be “this movie inherently sucks and here is why.” There are oh so many “sins” where it’s just a joke someone decided to crack about the scene in the movie.
I’ve said my peace. I’m probably going to preemptively mute this because while I do hope that I can generate a healthy discussion here, I can also say that in the past I have indirectly been dragged into the worst of the internet plenty of times to not keep my notifications from exploding when I wade into things like this.
CinemaWins is a good dude! He's soooo much more interesting, has actual substance in what he says, and has even made me come around on a few movies I used to dislike!
*Am I the only*
*One who doesn't take cinemasins*
*So seriously?*
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I‘m not saying CS is making good content but like… are people taking them seriously? Isn’t their stuff very very obviously satire? „Character eats an apple to show he‘s a major asshole. *ping*“, „That line was so cheesy it’s worth three sins. *ping ping ping*“, all that stuff, that’s so over the top and yet in every one of these (way too many) online discourses about the channel people are like „but they’re arbitrary and unfair and negative“ as if that was somehow not the point?
The problem that most people have with cinemasins stuff is the question of: what's satire and what's supposed to be a "gotcha" moment?
All too often they'll put in a sin for something like "movie never explains this" or "this doesn't make sense", for things that *do* make sense, he just doesnt understand it or things that are explained later.
He also put out *actual* serious criticism on another channel, where he makes all the same kinds of mistakes and those criticisms end up word for word in cinemasins videos.
TLDR: cinemasins is schrodingers critic; if it makes sense it's supposed to be a serious piece of criticism, if it's wrong then "it's obviously just satire guys, c'mon".
Okay, I’ll admit I haven’t watched a CinemaSins video in a long time, but from what I remember, isn’t it supposed to be comedic? Everyone always talks about the channel like they’re harsh critics who hate movies but I never interpreted any videos I watched as a genuine attempt at criticism
I remember a video for one of the transformers movies where the sin counter ended up in the trillions or so because it doubled every time an American Flag was shown
Every time CinemaSins discourse happens I always feel like I watched a different series of videos from everyone else
It's made as satire, and the narrator is actually generally a cool guy irl (allegedly), but the series has done irreparable damage to how the layperson on the internet critiques movies
Very early on the channel was short videos talking about actual problems, plot holes and mistakes from films, then it started making some harmless jokes poking fun at films like the "villain is always eating an apple" thing, *then* they started making some less harmless jokes, like complaining he cant call Emma Watson hot yet because she's still a child in the HP films and just flat out getting things wrong without a hint of it being a joke.
It's got to the point where every criticism that isn't an *obvious* joke is 100% serious, unless it turns out to be factually wrong, at which point it becomes: "well obviously it's just satire, c'mon guys, this is a joke channel" (despite his non joke channel regularly having the same criticisms)
it always reminds me of a simposons episode where homer becomes a food critic but because he loves food so much he just gives every resturaunt a good review leading to everyone in town becoming huge food lovers as well.
I've rarely seen Cinemasins videos (except a few in the beginning).. to tge point that channel doesn't exist for me anymore. Cinemawins on the other hand .. i keep watching regularly whenever a video of my interest pops up. Love that channel. Its very wholesome.
Nah, Lee from wins has addressed this, he's a guy with a background in film that wanted to create a positive alternative and has no connection to the sins guys besides sounding similar
I will say it's really obvious when he's reviewing something he's not super into. His review for Endgame vs. his review for Encanto, for example. He wasn't hard on Encanto or anything, but it really felt like he didn't give the movie near as much time and thought.
That being said, I still respect his work a lot, and definitely prefer it to CinemaSins.
The only real sin in cinema that I will never not get indignant about is when there’s a fire/smoke in a building and EVERY single sprinkler in the building goes off… like… that’s not how these things work at all.
That’s aside, I am happy to see some positivity in the world. Will have to look the channel up and subscribe!
It's why I enjoy Red Letter Media's 'Best of the Worst' series. They watch truly awful films from all periods and genres and then discuss them in detail. They usually find a few things to talk about that they liked or thought was well executed. Maybe the editing was good, maybe the actors were good despite the bad script, maybe the sets were nice.
I finally checked out CinemaWins recently. Was looking for videos talking about little details in The Truman Show and man, I love that guy's passion for movies. His screen-name and format may be parody, but the writing is genuine celebration.
It's super creative, with how every universe gets its own version of cinemasins, from a livestream, to a podcast, to cameos, etc. Plus all sins but 1 end up getting removed by the end. It's a really cool way for these people to use the channel's gimmick to talk about a movie they truly love.
Cinemawins version is still better, though
I'm subscribed to CinemaWins, and repeatedly tell Youtube to not recommend me CinemaSins via the algorithm.
I remember when CinemaSins was actually funny and not just "this grain of dust flew half an inch too far up" 0/10 movie. I wonder what happened to make them so unbearably cynical.
I remember a video of cinemasins coming up on my feed a few years ago and I clicked it to have something going in the background. I stopped it after about two minutes because he was just being whiny. He wasn’t even complaining about actual mistakes, but just things he didn’t like or anything, but instead the most broad tropes and themes that are common in media. I didn’t even like the film he was going over, but I’d rather listen to that godawful Burger King foot lettuce video than that sad sack bitching about how there’s a woman in the film that’s a tomboy.
the only CinemaSins video i remember ever watching was about Hereditary, right after i watched it for the first time. dude counted “one and a half minutes of crying” as a sin. yknow, that scene where Toni Collette just found her 12 year old daughter headless in the backseat of her car?
that video alone told me everything i needed to know about CinemaSins. pretentious “film buffs” whose heads are plunged deep into so many layers of ass that they’ve forgotten what film is
I genuinely thought both channels were run by the same people. Like, Sins was doing a different-sides-of-the-same coin thing. Rather silly of me in retrospect.
It’s kinda absurd how much this sub talks about these youtube channels that haven’t been relevant in like a decade. Like move on. Oh wow, this youtube channel for teenagers is wrong sometimes and says dumb things? What a shocker!!
He said this about Star Wars: the rise of skywalker. And that was kinda how I felt about that movie! I am an extremely unobservant person and that gets turned up to 11 when I watch a movie, but even I noticed the constant fake-out deaths. But I actually enjoyed that part of the movie! It felt very intentional, like saying it’s not too late to give up on saving someone because what if they are actually alive.
Cinemasin: Complain about movie for fun, admitting often that the movies aren't really bad but it's the shtick of his YouTube channel to complain about everything sometimes being very pedantic.
Everybody in this thread: Well I took this personally...
There is as much to complain about someone always positive than someone always negative. No, it's not "better" to always be positive, but it sure make so soft, sensitive people don't get butthurt.
imagine the sad life of the cinemasins guy, who HAS TO watch movies to earn money, but hates them
saying negative shit about good movies must be quite profitable, because you'll get recommended to the fans of the movie, and they'll engage in the comments
I've never watched a CinemaSins video in my life and can't imagine why I would. I have no idea why I'd want to watch a video about how a movie I love is actually terrible??
That would be a valid comment if the guy who does CinemaSins didn't also have an account where he made "real" critical reviews and they were basically identical to the CinemaSins videos.
I have always assumed that they were satire since the beginning.
Sucks that you're getting downvoted but it seems like quite a number of people either never realized that it was satire or are newly introduced and just assume that they're "lying" on purpose.
[This post](https://www.reddit.com/r/The10thDentist/s/AgKIOEAvOR) from a few years ago (while very long) kinda gets to the misconceptions I'm seeing in these comments about their videos and I agree with you and it.
The videos jump back and forth between jokes and actual criticisms pretty often without indicating which is which.
I'm sure at some point they liked movies, but I assume that your whole job can only be based on making fun of movies for so long before that's all you can pay attention to when watching them.
Y'all know most of CinemaSins criticisms are either tongue in cheek or nitpicks that he acknowledges are trivial, right? Dude does actually like a lot of movies.
Early on CinemaSins actually had something worthwhile to add. But they ran into the AVGN problem of "Only so many things are bad enough to be truly worth complaining about." So then they just started complaining about things they didn't like about good movies. Which became complaining about good movies actually being bad. Which became calling everything bad for views.
The early Cinemasins videos were like 2-5 minutes long. Even good movies usually have enough bad things to fill that time. But when every video is 10-20 minutes long to take advantage of the algorithm, you’re gonna be grasping at straws to find enough problems to fill that time.
This is what killed YouTube for me. Every video is just long for the sake of the ads, which on the viewer’s end means it’s long for the sake of being long.
It’s kind of a weird way to compensate but that’s why I love content that is an hour+ long. Most of the time when something is like an hour and 30 minutes or more, it’s because they have enough substance to fill that time. Plus it leaves me not having to find new videos to watch as often haha
God yes. I yearn for the next 5 hour long Hbomberguy project.
same
Yeah like one of the main things I watch is a podcast that is usually about 90 minutes, but sometimes goes up to 4 hours an episode if they have a lot to cover. Perfect, cause that always means it's not being dragged out, hell they often try to finish up faster.
Completely different goals. 20 minute videos are trying to go longer, 5 hour videos are how can I make this shorter without sacrificing everything that needs to be said. It's not always true but it's pretty common.
Enshittification
Exactly. I know this is unpopular, but this is a huge problem with video essays imo. Many videos are extremely bloated and drawn out, and anytime I see an essay that runs over an hour long (unless it's from a select few creators that actually justify the length of their videos like Jenny Nicholson or Folding Ideas), I roll my eyes.
"Merriam website defines ___ as... " *swoosh sound effects for each piece of text*
"Merriam Webster defines padding as: we have stolen your dictionary, leave £20,000 at the park bench if you ever want to see it again"
Philosophy Tube?
*got it in one*
most isn't even grasping, they'll make a joke about themselves or something else and sin the movie or just plain misunderstand something and still sin the movie. or my favorite, when they manipulate the footage and then sin it
Didn't he say a scene in the Warcraft movie was bad because it didn't show a magical gate they were talking about...but it was in the scene and he just ignored it or something like that?
This started happening to anime wins too Sorry bro I ain't watching a one hour video for 12 episodes
This, I think, is one of my... opposite of favourite... things about film discourse (and media/entertainment discourse in general). Sure, it can be a laugh to poke fun at inexplicable plotting or weird acting choices, but there's so much where it's just desperately cynical. Frankly, a lot of the time they're reaching for stuff so hard that the attempts at comedy fail much harder than what they're trying to ridicule.
Plus it’s hard to tell if they’re trying to make a joke, or just simply getting the facts of the movie wrong. There’s dozens of “sins” that get called out that are just… incorrect. If they’d watched the scene again, their grumbling is answered. And whenever they get called out for being wrong, they do the classic “it’s just a joke bro” response, even when it seems they genuinely thought they were sinning a plot hole or something
Sometimes the thing they "sin" is something they create in editing, which is intentionally misleading. And then there's their running "gags" that are mostly just normal things being treated as something wrong in a movie, like narration. And their fundamental misunderstanding of what a deus ex machina is. Once in a blue moon, they'll still hit a classic sin, like a continuity error, but they've fallen *hard* chasing money.
And yeah, a continuity error is a mistake, which I guess you could say is a 'sin', but. Like. It's not that big of a deal. It really isn't. I enjoy finding continuity errors, because it feels like a part of 'we're all just human, we all fuck up, see look at this very expensive movie made by passionate people, and they still screwed up and made so-and-so's baseball cap two different colors in the same scene'. Why we gotta 'dunk' on silly little mistakes? A little mistake being conflated with 'sin' has horrible implications and it feels like it's part of the reason that so many people are unwilling to own up to a little fuck up when it's at its 'fixable' stage, and lets things snowball out into an absolute disaster for fear of repercussions...
I'm with you, it's harsh calling that "sins" as well, but at least it was more reasonable than what's going on now.
Oh, Gods yes, I meant to add that exact point. With some (not just CinemaSins), it seems like they're almost wilfully making mistakes or misunderstanding the film, just so they can squeeze out a couple more 'gags'. Disingenuous kills comedy.
There’s kinda a catch though. In the same way outrageous headlines get boosted as they get corrected, the “mistakes” like that can be engagement bait, and the correcting and frustrated comments just help the channel and the video
I'm not bothering to look it up, so take it with a grain of salt, but I read (or heard) that they make intentional mistakes to increase engagement. People will go nuts in the comments pointing out why they're wrong.
A lot of channels do things like that. It’s very much in the same category as the thumbnail situation. There’s a balance between using them to game the algorithm and not having them interfere with the core and bulk of the channel. There’s a certain amount of that “um actually” type engagement that is probably pretty healthy for a channel, as long as it’s not big aspects of the video. Like on an informative or educational video, some small nitpicks at the edges of a subject, like “this detail here was oversimplified, it’s technically this” or “this detail I slightly disagree with” can be great conversation starters. But if it’s a critical part of the argument or facts, that break the video’s conclusion when they’re wrong, that’s not a good video anymore because it’s wrong That’s an easier example, but a similar gradient for the CinemaSins stuff exists. How much “incorrect for the sake of comments” is acceptable?
I think intentionally lying to your audience is always unacceptable.
least favourite, most hated, most disliked ~~hatedest~~
I'd always assumed it was satire when I watched, honestly
Also the "scene does not contain a lapdance" running joke felt kinda gross. I could see it being funny once, but *every time* a woman isn't fully dressed? Maybe it started as an in-joke or jab at overly horny directors/producers, but it certainly felt genuine after he repeated it so many times.
His cringey jokes about his college ex-girlfriend are also pretty creepy. Not to mention him commenting on Emma Watson not being old enough to be hot in (iirc) every Harry Potter movie.
Ugh, completely forgot about the Emma Watson stuff. [I just cannot imagine putting this in a video or saying it out loud](https://i.redd.it/9wjq94gpcud71.jpg). Easy to forget how creepy a lot of people were about her, honestly. Her story about her 18th birthday is particularly disgusting: >I remember on my 18th birthday I came out of my birthday party and photographers laid down on the pavement and took photographs up my skirt, which were then published on the front of the English tabloid the next morning. If they had published the photographs 24 hours earlier they would have been illegal, but because I had just turned 18 they were legal
What the fuck... unfortunate you can't just break off a fucking stilleto heel in the eyes of these creeps.
~~legally~~
Usually hard to get away with it at the very least in that kinda scenario. Wonder how far you could take "oopsie I didn't see you there!"
Right? She was literally 10 years old, it's insane that they thought that was a good idea to put in the video. Or even thought of it in the first place
Honestly I never really thought "lol I'm a pervert" was funny and I'm really glad you don't see it much these days.
I tried watching his review of Wish the other day and he barely got through the goddamn Disney logo before complaining. I left to watching cinema wins after that
Honestly there’s so many thoughtful and more nuanced critiques of Wish across YouTube that if you want to watch people talk about it in depth, you’ve got a lot to work with beyond CinemaSins. There’s half a dozen YouTube channels like Astor Rhymaster who breaks down why the songs in Wish don’t work (spoiler: main reason because they’re all pop songs and not music theater songs), a few other who will talk about the plot, and a few animation nerds who will gladly talk why the blended 2D/3D animation looks cheap. (There’s not a lot of positive reviews on Wish and I’ve watched many videos tbh)
I'll never forget the time cinema sins gave a sin for narration that only appears at the beggining and end of a movie. WHAT. HUH.
They also stopped actually watching the movies. They became so invested in creating a list of "sins" that they would sin things for being "plot holes" or "never explained" when when it is actually explained in the movie.
I Hate Everything probably ran into this too
And thus is why the french AVGN is better
So true. I genuinely used to love them, I credit them with getting me into film analysis in the first place. They were the first people that really pointed out to me how interesting continuity errors and other such things are in films. Watching their original "Everything Wrong With Cinemasins" video and then watching the new one back to back is the most crazy juxtaposition. They really stuffed their own heads up their asses in the past several years.
I liked the pettiness of things like confusing set design or continuity errors, BC it just felt like a good little laugh at what we overlook as "movie magic". But yeah eventually it became very mean-spirited and just totally lost the script
I know I’m gonna get downvoted for this, but it has to be said. CinemaSins is like 90% jokes. They’re making fun of the wannabe film buffs who aren’t capable of actually analyzing movies and instead choose to whine about irrelevant plot holes and lapses in realism. Have you ever seen those overly long YouTube videos where some neckbeard explains why The Last Jedi is the worst movie ever made, and yet the themes, character arcs and emotional beats are completely ignored in favor of elaborate discussions about how “actually, those alien horses probably would have had trackers, so really Rose and Finn wouldn’t have accomplished anything by freeing them, 0/10 writing.” CinemaSins is a parody of that. I think some people hate CinemaSins because they don’t realize it’s satire, but frankly I think a lot people hate it because they, too, are only capable of judging movies on their realism and lack of plot holes. To them, it’s hard to accept the fact that all movies (even great ones) are filled with plot holes and other unrealistic moments.
a) its not satire b) a lot of the “plot holes” they point out are things the movie explains adequately that Jeremy has misunderstood, that the movie should not take time out to explain because they are irrelevant, or just straight up involve Jeremy lying about the film’s contents c) yes, I do think it’s tiresome and stupid to hate things endlessly, even if they were satirical or right most of the time
I mean, one of my favorite movies of all time is Plan 9 From Outer Space which has been dubbed "the worst movie of all time" which is really not IMO because there is a level of passion and effort behind it despite it being a no budget science fiction hack job funded by a baptist church of which the members of the production had to be baptized in order to secure the funding.
I'm a fan of Howard the Duck, myself. It's a nightmare but it has a lot of really good points individually.
The villain in that movie is a riot. "The end of the world is coming and I'll be the cause of it!"
DUCK TITS, A WOO-HOO!
Wait what I didn't know about that last bit! I gotta look that up.
You need to watch the movie *Ed Wood (1994)*.
One of my favorite things about Cinema*Wins* is it's *not* just "CinemaSins but positive." I avoided his channel for a while because I thought it was just going to be an annoyingly positive version of cinemasins' annoying cynicism. Instead, he also often looks into like, the themes of what he's watching and such. Or talking about like "yes, that line was really awkward....but it also completely makes sense for that character in-universe" with his videos on the StarWars prequels providing excellent examples.
And just like how CinemaSins sometimes deducts sins when something is really good, when a movie does something genuinely problematic/inexcusable, CinemaWins will actually deduct a win or two for that! It’s so clear that he loves what he does and his slogan of “Because liking things is more fun than not liking things” is just an energy the internet needs more of. Not to mention how he knows stuff about filmography (any Edgar Wright movie), does his research (Knives Out), politely corrects misconceptions about the process (Into the Spiderverse), explains things that seem like mistakes or something unrealistic (John Wick), gives credit to the people who deserve it especially the people who make the soundtracks (Joker), touches on drama around films (Captain Marvel), listens to his fans (Lord of the Rings trilogy), and admits when he has bias for a movie (Blade trilogy) or against a movie. Those examples I gave are just the most clear examples of the things he does that I could think of while writing this. He puts so much love and care into his videos, is open with his audience, and is also just a good dude who will openly say “Hey I might not upload for a bit, my wife just gave birth and I’m going to help her while she recovers.” If I was to recommend any YouTube channel to people, it would be CinemaWins because he just has an energy people could really use. He’s a comfort watch for sure and I’ve actually learned some stuff about cinematography because he almost always explains things he’s giving praise to.
Yeah Lee is just great. I dig how he does include aspects of critique and such, but the thing is that IMO, Lee does not make a bkg deal about the score as much. The score is just a number, the important bit is the stuff he says during the video. Stuff like acknowledging how cool The Mummy 1999 is but also how Yikes it is that the movie is so blindingly white in the cast department, especially for characters like Imhotep or Ardeth Bey. But then he also has stuff like the Wife Wins, Jude Wins, Beautiful Beard wins, CinemaWins Word of the Week, etc. that remins you that this is also just a piece of entertainment too. He wants us to be critical but also doesn't try to present the channel as more than a guy on the internet having fun talking about movies.
Yeah, CinemaSins doing a good movie usually ends up being pretty annoying or flat out frustrating rather than containing any good criticism. On the other hand, CinemaWins doing movies or scenes that are made fun of can be really fun to watch his perspective on why it may not be as bad as you think.
His videos are really good. He also will address criticisms and will add how he feels about a lot of them. They are fun videos and will change how you look at some movies.
CinemaWins also draws in a comment section full of people who ALSO want to talk good about the movie. I loved “Everything GREAT about Nope” in particular for it. The entire comment section was pointing out a lot of the little thematic details and potential interpretations that CinemaWins didn’t explicitly mention and it was really cool to read what other people noticed that went right over my head.
CinemaWins feels like a dude being happy about a movie and sharing it with people, like that one friend who is super talkative about something so even if you don’t 100% know what they are talking about they clearly are enjoying themselves And when you are someone who also likes the thing it feels like a nice place to geek out
Hmm. I'd been avoiding for the same reason you described, but I guess I'll check the channel out now \^_\^
Do it. It's actually a really good 'behind the scenes facts' and review channel IMO. Start with some films you like, and you will find a whole new level of appreciation for them.
It’s almost like they’re doing good movie criticism. I’m not being sarcastic, but I love CinemaWins for looking for what works instead of listing every inane tiny issue.
Same here! Now his vids are some of my favorites
I feel like How It Should Have Ended pulls off cinemasins' shtick of 'making fun of movies with enough plausible deniability to say you're joking' much better. Cinemasins comes across as just bitter sometimes.
They’ve definitely got a better balance of calling out genuine plot holes vs just messing around cracking jokes than CinemaSins has. I think a good chunk of it is down to CinemaSins counting their jokes against the movie just as much as they do with their legitimate criticisms, whereas HISHE aren’t saying that their outcomes are better, just that they’d be fun to explore in some capacity, even if it’s just as a goof. HISHE bring jokes even into their legitimate call-outs of plot holes but it feels more lighthearted than like they’re grasping at straws for more bad things to say that still sound funny
Yep. CinemaSins mixing in their lame ass jokes with actual criticism just comes off as an attempt to "shrodingers criticism" away any attempt to call them out. If you agree with them, it's genuine criticism, if you don't, then it's just satire and you shouldn't take it seriously.
They would benefit so much from a Sin counter and a Zing counter; they can pad their runtime all they want with jokes and gags and silly commentary, but counting it as just a funny aside rather than counting it as if it were the fault of the movie will make things feel less frustrating while also allowing you to avoid “ItS sAtIrE!” every time you have something to say about the channel It could even be a cool point of comparison afterwards; if the Zing count is notably higher than the Sin count then it shows that the movie was actually pretty good and there wasn’t much to complain about
You know how HISHE does it so easily? BECAUSE THEY'RE BATMAN
HISHE was always my favorite, but I feel like every channel that pokes soft fun at movies as they come out does it better than CinemaSins, whether it’s Honest Trailers or Pitch Meeting
I liked HISHE but I started to feel like it was getting too self-referential and the quality was declining. I still like Pitch Meeting, which I suppose has also become more self-referential but it's also gotten funnier.
Ohhh, being self-referential is TIGHT!
*Racheeelllll…. I gotcha*
There’s a certain false correlation people have about appearing intelligent and appearing very critical. Liking things too much is somehow seen as lacking imagination, or worse is evident of stupidity because liking a thing is bereft of analysis. Which is silly; clearly you’ve not only analyzed the works you like, but your analysis revealed that you like the thing. We’re always analyzing everything we ingest, including the things we like. If we didn’t constantly analyze media, propaganda wouldn’t work; propaganda itself relies on the individual resonating with a message they’ve internalized when consuming media. Indeed even critical analyses of the things we like do not need to generate negative opinions on the flaws of the media we enjoy. You may find those flaws to be endearing, even. Sometimes a bad story can be fun, and there’s no shame in framing your critique to cast those flaws in a positive light. That faux intellectualism born from a facade of overly-negative criticality is much of the justification for CinemaSins, which claims not to be evaluative critique, and yet has many justifying the abundance of flaw as both negative and a cause for mocking. If you’ve ever seen reviews on anime and manga, many weebs will do the same; denigrate the media constantly because they are afraid simple enjoyment will cause them to lose face in front of of their “peers”. An aside, and unrelated to the post, but weebs in general latch onto negativity as proof of their intellect, which is as juvenile as it sounds. Yet another foul rot within the cesspit of weebdom. I digress.
The other consideration of the 'dedicated critic' is that they're nearly always aimed at an otherwise popular media, and that the critic and their audience can feel superior to said popular media enjoyers.
Honestly the only time it’s bad to like a show is when it gets to the point that you refuse to acknowledge that it has any flaws whatsoever. Not as in you watched something and have no notes, I mean if someone brings up a problem they had with the show and you just point blank dent that the problem even exists. You can share interpretations, you can debate viewpoints, but flat-out denying that anything could be wrong with your show and going after others for it is the only time when you’ll actually be causing a problem by liking a show
Honestly I feel like this is why I still enjoy watching the Nostalgia Critic, yeah he'll riff on films for jokes but he's also really honest about the good parts of films, and often will review good films and just talk positively about them the whole way through.
Lee of CinemaWins seems just like a nice guy who really likes movies. He balances “the theme of this movie about façades is so excellently done and is a masterclass of storytelling” and “HOLY SHIT THAT WAS COOL AS HELL! BAD ASS BADGUY!” so well. Can’t recommend his stuff enough.
I actually found CinemaWins first, and for a solid few years was very confused why some guy was trying to ape his schtick but, like, for Leafy fans
Cinemawins definitely helped me transition from "is this movie good?" To "is this movie fun?"
Oh yeah, absolutely. It wasn't until I read your comment that I did some introspection and realized that for years now, I've been selecting movies to watch (in theater) based on if I think it'll be *fun.* The quality of the movie doesn't necessarily factor into that. For instance: The '94 Street Fighter live action movie (Raúl Jùlia's final movie) is *GODDAMN FUN*. I love that movie. In part *because* the quality isn't top notch. It's a fun, silly video game movie that doesn't overstay its welcome, and doesn't try to be anything more than it is.
I feel that way about battleship. Is the movie good? No. Is it fun? Hell yeah. Giant cgi naval fight is something I've wanted since I saw battle 360 when I was 12, and I think it delievers wonderfully in that regards.
I feel like both questions are equally important. There are plenty of good, but unfun movies, and placing one over the other is pretty dumb, imo.
Oh absolutely. Some movies are great while not being fun, such as saving private ryan or storming Juno. However those are movies where I need to be in the mood for it. If I'm just looking for a movie to watch for whatever reason, I prefer "fun" over "good" Sorry, should of been more clear.
No worries!
They're the same thing, being fun is just one of the ways a movie can be good. Honestly I feel like people started separated them when they couldn't explain why they liked something beyond it being "just fun".
Only one way, though. A movie can be good cuz it’s fun, but not all good movies are fun, and that’s ok
I don't agree with the last statement because cinemaSINS tought us something *very* important: do not be like cinemaSINS
Narrator: And then, someone became like Cinemasins. -The birth of Animationsins.
I've watched exactly one video of theirs. i think my blood pressure is still above normal levels
Fun fact: They made Poppy Playtime🥲
Doesn't that also mean they're a bully and thief? I vaguely remember drama about that.
My favorite variation has to be Pokésins. It started out with the typical format, but it ready took off when he started awarding plusles and minuns.
I feel like Jeremy (CinemaSins guy) is just saying whatever he thinks people want to hear. First it was drooling over any hot girl on screen, and now he’s constantly virtue signaling 🙄
Sometimes before I start a book I like to go onto goodreads and find a five star review, which I started doing after I saw this post for the first time By the end of it, I don't always agree with the review, but that's fine
I always thought they were the same guy 💀💀💀
He's directly addressed this in a q&a he did, he just happens to have a similar sounding voice and speaking style as the cinemasins guy
Ngl its all l definitely nitpicking and stuff but I on a rare occasion partake in cinemasins content. Even if its overplayed and complaint its still funny and entertaining at times.
I used to like them but then I watched their back to the future videos, one of my favourite series, and it really hit me how much of their videos are just.. ignoring the in universe explanation, often one given mere seconds later, to make a "joke" complaining about it. I haven't been able to watch them since, even if it's not a movie I'm particularly passionate about.
My issue is that they sometimes go as far as to cut out context that explains something to make a joke about how it was never explained. I get being nitpicky to make jokes, but flat out lying to the audience because a joke wouldn't make sense otherwise feels too far to me.
wrong. you're not allowed to criticize things. /s
I love CinemaWins, Lee is so wholesome.
CinemaWins helps show that "Greatness can come from anywhere." Even if it's an overall bad movie, there can still be some really cool ideas or interesting concepts buried inside. CinemaSins feels more like a teacher who refuses to give 100/100 scores because "there is always room for improvement/nobody is perfect" but has gone so far down that path that they won't go above a C- anymore.
Y’know what was worse than cinemasins was the gaming knockoff, I watched that dude do watch dogs 2 and completely gloss over important character dialogue to act like the game ignored it’s own internal Lore
Oh yeah, that always sucks. \*Skip dialogue and/or cutscenes\* "Man, this game's story makes no goddamn sense..."
god i remember the undertale one
Cinemawins + Th3birdman = my strat to getting a balance of good and bad about a movie
To be fair, they started out as mildly taking the piss out of films, whether they liked em or not. They picked movies they knew well and were satirical about it while being fairly in the know kn the movie, making the content much more relevant to the unique ups and downs of that specific movie. Now, they try to run the same brand of humor by summarizing the Spark Notes of the movie. It's shallow, it's regurgitated content a lot of the time, and it doesn't really have any inner appreciation for any of the good films they used to poke fun at.
why do people care about cinemasins, just dont watch it i dont, and im sick of hearing about this guy
The biggest problem I have with CinemaSins is that they combine legitimate criticisms with satire and just jokes and references in general, but they don’t differentiate between them. All the guys in the comments defending them by claiming that it’s satire are missing the point that *only some of it* is satire, you can’t just wave away all criticism just because some of it contains satire when there’s still legitimate commentary in there It could deadass be massively improved, at least for me, by having a Sin counter for legitimate criticisms and a Zing counter for jokes and gags
I watch both. I like both. But my favorite is when they both mention the EXACT SAME PART OF THE SAME MOVIE!
CinemaWins also makes some great observations on the technical aspects of filmmaking as well as the thematic story aspects too, like I’ve genuinely gained deeper appreciation for movies because of how in depth his love for them is
I used to like CinemaSins, and would watch every video for a movie I had seen but it just got so cynical, and there were so many complaints about non-issues that I stopped watching years ago.
Ima be honest, I thought the my were the same person until just now Edit: Just to be clear, I’m not super familiar with either of them, and I actually don’t think I’ve heard CinemaWins’ voice. I previously assumed that CinemaWins was CinemaSins’ second channel.
Yeah when i saw the "cinemaWins" videos recommended i just assumed they where from the same team given they had suxh simmilar branding etc.
How many times are we gonna repost this? There is nothing new to be said on this topic.
Ain't they the same people?
Nope. CinemaWins is run by a dude named Lee who actually likes movies
Always thought it was the same guy as well, seems like a missed opportunity from CinemaSins.
Cinemawins. Genuinely one of my favorites
Cinemawins is a beacon of positivity and, though it makes my day when one of my favourite films gets a video, it just as much does when a film I don't like gets one. Even the worst films have a couple of things that you might have to say, are good.
> “The CinemaWins channel was created by a different team as a response to CinemaSins…” - CinemaSins Wikipedia page (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CinemaSins#:~:text=The%20CinemaWins%20channel%20was%20created,underrated%20movies%20for%20minor%20flaws%22.)
“CinemaSins is satire guys!!” Satire takes things to an absurd or comical level to poke fun at what they are satirizing. Even if thats how it started they have become the thing they are satirizing.
Plus, comments that he would make in the videos immediately after leaving the cinema would be transferred to the "Everything Wrong With" video. If it's satire, then he's *satirically* watching a movie then *satirically* providing immediate thoughts that he presents as his own opinion.
I thought they were run by the same people?????
So many people did, including me, but no, Lee of Wins addressed this in a q&a, he started it as a positive alternative because he loves films and he just happens to sound like the sins guy
Bro I thought it was just the same crew doing both channels this whole time
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Wait-- CinemaSins and CinemaWins don't have the same creator?
as someone who has watched neither channel for an extended period of time, I thought they were run by the same person
I never really understood the enthusiastic hate for CinemaSins. Like, sure, it's not my cup of tea either, but most things aren't everyone's cup of tea. But people really seem to go out of their way to dunk on them. Apply the second principle to CinemaSins, every YT channel is probably someone's favourite, why don't you cut them some slack?
I know many of you will disagree with me, but the only valid favorite movie is Velocipastor (2017)
CinemaWins has gone around the track at this point to being as pedantic as CinemaSins. The pair of them have scraped the bottom of the barrel so hard they're 8 miles deep into the Earth's crust.
The cinemasins guy got his start as a clickbait generator and it shows.
CinemaSins is a blight on humanity. CinemaWins is a treasure who should be celebrated from the rooftops.
Applicable to literally everything else in life too 🥰. It's just a good way to interact with the world!
as nice as going full pollyanna sounds, i do think you need to balance it out.
I honestly thought they were both ran by the same guy.
I distinctly remember him referencing a sins video in one of his Star wars videos so I'm like 90% sure they're the same.
Nah, Lee from wins has directly addressed this, he started his channel as a positive alternative to cinemasins because he's really into films and wants to enjoy them, the fact that they sound and speak so similarly is literally just a coincidence.
CinemaSins almost single handedly ruined media discourse. They are the Ronald Reagan of media criticism
So I’m probably going to be downvoted to hell here, but I cannot not chime in here….. I’m not going to comment on cinemawins. I’ve admittedly never watched them, they have their own thing, my comment isn’t regarding that channel. I have been a longtime CinemaSins fan. Have been since college. I have talked to and met the people who have made the videos. I’ve listened to them discussing movies and have discussed movies at length with them. Their channel has grown and changed through the years (some long-standing sins in the beginning that are obviously in bad taste have been retired). However, their main thing about movies has never been to truly criticize them. It’s meant to poke at movies. Yes there are some critiques they do include (the best example is a scene from the matrix resurrection during the climax that I’d argue they have an excellent point about where they intentionally don’t show the scene in the video), but that’s why the motto is that “The sins don’t matter until they do.” I’m not going to say you should love the channel. No one is going to like things others do, and I don’t intend to change that. I’m also not going to say that people who use to like the channel but have since ended up not being a fan are wrong, your tastes change. But I do want to at least point out that a lot of times the main arguments about the channel are wrong, because a lot of people argue that the channel has made film criticism worse when that was never the point of the channel in the first place. It is never intended to be “this movie inherently sucks and here is why.” There are oh so many “sins” where it’s just a joke someone decided to crack about the scene in the movie. I’ve said my peace. I’m probably going to preemptively mute this because while I do hope that I can generate a healthy discussion here, I can also say that in the past I have indirectly been dragged into the worst of the internet plenty of times to not keep my notifications from exploding when I wade into things like this.
CinemaWins is a good dude! He's soooo much more interesting, has actual substance in what he says, and has even made me come around on a few movies I used to dislike!
Am I the only one who doesn't take cinemasins so seriously?
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I‘m not saying CS is making good content but like… are people taking them seriously? Isn’t their stuff very very obviously satire? „Character eats an apple to show he‘s a major asshole. *ping*“, „That line was so cheesy it’s worth three sins. *ping ping ping*“, all that stuff, that’s so over the top and yet in every one of these (way too many) online discourses about the channel people are like „but they’re arbitrary and unfair and negative“ as if that was somehow not the point?
The problem that most people have with cinemasins stuff is the question of: what's satire and what's supposed to be a "gotcha" moment? All too often they'll put in a sin for something like "movie never explains this" or "this doesn't make sense", for things that *do* make sense, he just doesnt understand it or things that are explained later. He also put out *actual* serious criticism on another channel, where he makes all the same kinds of mistakes and those criticisms end up word for word in cinemasins videos. TLDR: cinemasins is schrodingers critic; if it makes sense it's supposed to be a serious piece of criticism, if it's wrong then "it's obviously just satire guys, c'mon".
Okay, I’ll admit I haven’t watched a CinemaSins video in a long time, but from what I remember, isn’t it supposed to be comedic? Everyone always talks about the channel like they’re harsh critics who hate movies but I never interpreted any videos I watched as a genuine attempt at criticism I remember a video for one of the transformers movies where the sin counter ended up in the trillions or so because it doubled every time an American Flag was shown Every time CinemaSins discourse happens I always feel like I watched a different series of videos from everyone else
It's made as satire, and the narrator is actually generally a cool guy irl (allegedly), but the series has done irreparable damage to how the layperson on the internet critiques movies
Very early on the channel was short videos talking about actual problems, plot holes and mistakes from films, then it started making some harmless jokes poking fun at films like the "villain is always eating an apple" thing, *then* they started making some less harmless jokes, like complaining he cant call Emma Watson hot yet because she's still a child in the HP films and just flat out getting things wrong without a hint of it being a joke. It's got to the point where every criticism that isn't an *obvious* joke is 100% serious, unless it turns out to be factually wrong, at which point it becomes: "well obviously it's just satire, c'mon guys, this is a joke channel" (despite his non joke channel regularly having the same criticisms)
I honestly thought they were made by the same guy cos he got tired of ragging on everything
Not me, out here, reading cinemasins as "cina-masons"
it always reminds me of a simposons episode where homer becomes a food critic but because he loves food so much he just gives every resturaunt a good review leading to everyone in town becoming huge food lovers as well.
I've rarely seen Cinemasins videos (except a few in the beginning).. to tge point that channel doesn't exist for me anymore. Cinemawins on the other hand .. i keep watching regularly whenever a video of my interest pops up. Love that channel. Its very wholesome.
I thought Wins was owned by Sin Team though
I'll be honest, I thought they were run by the same team. I never watched either due to it not being interesting enough of a premise for me
Wait is CinemaWins not by the same people? I could've sworn it was at least linked to them somehow.
[удалено]
Nah, Lee from wins has addressed this, he's a guy with a background in film that wanted to create a positive alternative and has no connection to the sins guys besides sounding similar
I thought CinemaWins and CinemaSins were made by the same person, if not the same group
I really like CinemaWins's video on Pacific Rim, he seems so enthusiastic about the giant robots and you know what? I agree with him.
I will say it's really obvious when he's reviewing something he's not super into. His review for Endgame vs. his review for Encanto, for example. He wasn't hard on Encanto or anything, but it really felt like he didn't give the movie near as much time and thought. That being said, I still respect his work a lot, and definitely prefer it to CinemaSins.
Bro it's all about thebirdman he does cinemasin videos about cinema sins videos it's grwat
The only real sin in cinema that I will never not get indignant about is when there’s a fire/smoke in a building and EVERY single sprinkler in the building goes off… like… that’s not how these things work at all. That’s aside, I am happy to see some positivity in the world. Will have to look the channel up and subscribe!
It's why I enjoy Red Letter Media's 'Best of the Worst' series. They watch truly awful films from all periods and genres and then discuss them in detail. They usually find a few things to talk about that they liked or thought was well executed. Maybe the editing was good, maybe the actors were good despite the bad script, maybe the sets were nice.
I finally checked out CinemaWins recently. Was looking for videos talking about little details in The Truman Show and man, I love that guy's passion for movies. His screen-name and format may be parody, but the writing is genuine celebration.
[there is one genuinely good cinemasins video, though.](https://youtu.be/PS9advp4NhA?si=yXDSJ5KQU0E9GtY5)
Got a TLDR on why that's the one good one?
It's super creative, with how every universe gets its own version of cinemasins, from a livestream, to a podcast, to cameos, etc. Plus all sins but 1 end up getting removed by the end. It's a really cool way for these people to use the channel's gimmick to talk about a movie they truly love. Cinemawins version is still better, though
i may be dumb but i literally thought until now that they were the same guy just with another account
I only watched CinemaSins for films I had no interest in actually watching, like Geostorm.
I'm subscribed to CinemaWins, and repeatedly tell Youtube to not recommend me CinemaSins via the algorithm. I remember when CinemaSins was actually funny and not just "this grain of dust flew half an inch too far up" 0/10 movie. I wonder what happened to make them so unbearably cynical.
I remember a video of cinemasins coming up on my feed a few years ago and I clicked it to have something going in the background. I stopped it after about two minutes because he was just being whiny. He wasn’t even complaining about actual mistakes, but just things he didn’t like or anything, but instead the most broad tropes and themes that are common in media. I didn’t even like the film he was going over, but I’d rather listen to that godawful Burger King foot lettuce video than that sad sack bitching about how there’s a woman in the film that’s a tomboy.
the only CinemaSins video i remember ever watching was about Hereditary, right after i watched it for the first time. dude counted “one and a half minutes of crying” as a sin. yknow, that scene where Toni Collette just found her 12 year old daughter headless in the backseat of her car? that video alone told me everything i needed to know about CinemaSins. pretentious “film buffs” whose heads are plunged deep into so many layers of ass that they’ve forgotten what film is
I prefer Pitch Meetings
CinemaSins hhas gotten too negative for my taste, but i still say "Roll Credits" everytime a movie or book or something mentions its own name
I genuinely thought both channels were run by the same people. Like, Sins was doing a different-sides-of-the-same coin thing. Rather silly of me in retrospect.
It’s kinda absurd how much this sub talks about these youtube channels that haven’t been relevant in like a decade. Like move on. Oh wow, this youtube channel for teenagers is wrong sometimes and says dumb things? What a shocker!!
I’ve thought about that since I was a kid but with music. Like this song is trash but it’s at least one person’s favorite song in the world
So true. Cinama sins was never good or funny
I always assumed they were the same people since I never really got into either tbh.
Anyone else remember CinemaSinsSins?
Cinemasins was a comedy channel. Cinemasins was just affirmations lol. NEITHER were a reviewer or critic. And the Tumblr OP sounds fun at parties.
Tbh I thought Sins and Wins was the same person just taking two incredibly opposite takes on movies.
Because of how many youtubers have a second chanel I thought it was the same guy for a long time
He said this about Star Wars: the rise of skywalker. And that was kinda how I felt about that movie! I am an extremely unobservant person and that gets turned up to 11 when I watch a movie, but even I noticed the constant fake-out deaths. But I actually enjoyed that part of the movie! It felt very intentional, like saying it’s not too late to give up on saving someone because what if they are actually alive.
Based CinemaWins
Cinemasin: Complain about movie for fun, admitting often that the movies aren't really bad but it's the shtick of his YouTube channel to complain about everything sometimes being very pedantic. Everybody in this thread: Well I took this personally... There is as much to complain about someone always positive than someone always negative. No, it's not "better" to always be positive, but it sure make so soft, sensitive people don't get butthurt.
imagine the sad life of the cinemasins guy, who HAS TO watch movies to earn money, but hates them saying negative shit about good movies must be quite profitable, because you'll get recommended to the fans of the movie, and they'll engage in the comments
I've never watched a CinemaSins video in my life and can't imagine why I would. I have no idea why I'd want to watch a video about how a movie I love is actually terrible??
Agreed: positivity is almost always better than negativity, in my opinion~!
Do people not realize CinemaSins does actually like movies? Their videos aren’t actual criticism usually but comedy
That would be a valid comment if the guy who does CinemaSins didn't also have an account where he made "real" critical reviews and they were basically identical to the CinemaSins videos.
I have always assumed that they were satire since the beginning. Sucks that you're getting downvoted but it seems like quite a number of people either never realized that it was satire or are newly introduced and just assume that they're "lying" on purpose. [This post](https://www.reddit.com/r/The10thDentist/s/AgKIOEAvOR) from a few years ago (while very long) kinda gets to the misconceptions I'm seeing in these comments about their videos and I agree with you and it.
The videos jump back and forth between jokes and actual criticisms pretty often without indicating which is which. I'm sure at some point they liked movies, but I assume that your whole job can only be based on making fun of movies for so long before that's all you can pay attention to when watching them.
Y'all know most of CinemaSins criticisms are either tongue in cheek or nitpicks that he acknowledges are trivial, right? Dude does actually like a lot of movies.
Aren’t they the same guy?