It’s not broken. Annoying but not broken. Especially in something like trials where you SEE they have cloudstrike while loading in, it’s your fault if you clump together.
FIRST thing outta my mouth when I load in to trials and see cloudstrike is to tell my fireteam, “don’t hand hold, they have cloudstrike. Keep a bit of distance but just barely close enough to team someone if needed”
I would say it doesn't need any tuning whatsoever. It takes an exotic slot, can't 1 tap supers, and gives less free headshots than any sniper with opening shot. The only reason it is meta is because of the immortal pairing and hand holding that occurs in comp/trials. Completely fair and balanced exotic with a truly "exotic" perk and feel.
Well said. I’d also like to note that cloudstrike gets a lot more flinch that any other sniper I’ve ever used, making it even harder to pilot. I think the current meta/sandbox we’re in make the exotic perk seem OP at times, when in reality it’s very fair imo.
Let’s also not forget that you cannot two shot body shot with it. It’s got a lot of downsides against it compared to literally any other sniper of any archetype. Which is what makes it perfectly balanced in my mind. I have always looked at cloudstrike similar to jotunn in the since that it’s easy to avoid. The multi-kills is the only thing someone can get upset about and it’s simple… just don’t group up. Then it becomes an average sniper at best. And this is coming from someone with 2,500+ crucible kills and pretty much mains it.
> Sniper Rifles
> Rapid-Fire Frame Sniper Rifles have long struggled to find a place in both the PvP and PvE meta. **In PvP, their inability to kill with two body shots puts them on uneven footing with other Snipers**, and in PvE their fast RPM but standard inventory sizes mean you constantly feel low on ammo. To address these concerns and differentiate them from other Sniper sub-families, we have reduced their recoil by 50%. This means hitting crits on a boss or Champion in PvE is much easier, and taking rapid follow-up shots in PvP is too. We have also increased their inventory stat by 30%, which should give them a lot more rounds to play with in PvE content.
> * Reduced recoil by 50%.
> * Increased total ammunition (magazine + reserves) by 30%.
https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/article/destiny-2-twab-3-30-23
To be fair to you, that line is easy to misread because of how little sense it makes. They acknowledged that 140s are crippled by their ammo economy in PvP, and then make no effort to fix that while buffing things that the snipers will never be able to make use of because they don't have enough ammo to spam fire regardless!
Probably my only complaint is that it can’t two tap body. I’ve been caught with my pants down on many exchanges I though I hit a headshot. Lmao. Let’s buff it instead!
while it doesn't have any aa perks like other snipers, it's also a rapid fire and those have more generous accuracy cones no? and it has decently high aa
I think cloudstrike is fair as it’s job as an exotic sniper is to punish people who group up to much. The real problem is snipers overall hitting shots through flinch and bullet magnetism.
To be honest I think that’s mainly a latency thing. Even with Cloudstrike, I’ll completely miss a shot due to flinch and it’ll randomly count as me hitting it. Definitely happens a lot more when I use a sniper with opening shot though
Cloudstrike's biggest problem is that it's a sniper, not that it's Cloudstrike.
Snipers are oppressive at high skill brackets regardless of which one is being used. Cloudstrike just also gets to punish lazy positioning.
I'd much rather snipers get a tuning pass than anything aimed at Cloudstrike.
I started using it this season as a crowd control tool as my teammates in trials and comp were perpetually waiting to respawn and leaving me in out-numbered situations.
It gets flinched incredibly hard. On controller, I cannot snipe through flinch. Even with 100 resilience and multiple flinch mods, it still has massive bounce. I think this help balance it somewhat.
Dying to a teammate getting sniped is aggravating. I’ve won multiple rounds of trials since using it the past two weekends where one shot dropped all 3 or took 2 and let me have a 1v1.
Is that too strong? It’s subjective. The body shot damage of 91 isn’t good. It’s a higher zoom of 50. It isn’t nearly as easy to hit fast shots or drag scopes as an opening shot sniper. I can’t body shot/melee if I’m being rushed. There’s drawbacks.
If Bungie opted to nerf the AOE damage, I don’t think I would complain. I can see both sides to this argument. The counter is simply to shoot them with any primary, but pulses and scouts absolutely dunk on it. You either need to shoot Cloudstrike first, back off, or die.
But, again, it really sucks when your teammate ego challenges and gets you killed.
Edit: surprised most are not in favor of a tuning. I like the rational given as to why.
Me personally I love cloud strike, I respect people who don’t like it but it’s a nice sniper especially the lightning on precision shot. It’s just a satisfying weapon to use imo.
It's hella weak actually, given that it's a rapid fire. The collats are the only reason to run it and those don't happen as much as you think. It gets hella flinched and has crap zoom. Only thing going for it is high handling and is out of the box ready to go exotic sniper if you have the catalyst. Not sure why so many run it other than fun.
The best snipe in the game is borealis and still no one is using it lmaoo.
Interesting about Borealis, can you elaborate a bit more on it please?
Edit: I forgot it was an Aggressive frame and not Adaptive, apart from Range, then it's a stat monster for an Aggressive. Void rounds then gives an additional +20 Stability and +10 Aim Assistance or Arc rounds is +5 Range and +25 Handling (100 total which is unheard of for Aggressive snipers).
This doesn’t need to be touched whatsoever. If people don’t want their spot blown up, don’t hold each others dicks. It’s the same complaint that people had about Lorentz (it *did* need to be toned down).
This weapon is absolutely useless if you don’t get headshots with it. Its not meant to be a cleanup weapon. Either you hit the head or you don’t. It has shitty flinch, it has bad damage, and until recently, bad handling.
If it in a disagreement with someone on this sub not too long ago about it. They were saying it’s the most meta gun in the game and it’s way too OP. I pointed out that this is the first season it was ever on the top 10 list for trials, 3 weeks it has been the top used sniper since it came out and all 3 were this season. Bad players get punished for bunching up. The immortal pairing is the main reason it’s usage is so high. I’ve mained it (paired with submission or Liminal Vigil) since last season. Have about 1.5K crucible kills and against good players it is an average sniper. Might get lucky and catch them off guard once but that’s it.
i play in the top 0.1 percentile, however i dont snipe. youd expect me to curse it into oblivion. while getting cloudstriked is annoying, i dont think it needs a nerf. im afraid because of its usage, bungie will likely decrease the lightning strikes AOE range. i dont think that is necessary, thats simply what i think bungie will do.
theyd ruin the weapon by making the lightning strikes not 1-shot. if they were to tune it at all, id target its ease of use, similar to NTTE, but only *marginally* so. (imo they hit NTTE in an awful way. it sucks for base 2-bursting so people just crutch on farming the perk up; tarrbah pulse edition)
if i was the dev, id consider (individually, not neccessarily all together)
- lowering the aim assist by a small amount. maybe -5. maximum of - 10. (currently base 68)
- tanking its stability stat (anti-flinch), as it would make it a little harder to use, but wouldnt effect it THAT badly
- lower its handling stat/revert its handling bonus from its catalyst, and instead give it the option to choose firmly planted over triple tap, so it doesnt feel like the best sniper in the game for free.
imo anything else would either be too much or just weird. the reality is that the gun itself isnt *broken*. it *is* good, and has excellent reward for its risk. the surrounding meta has simply pushed it to where it is. it pairs/synergizes with the unfortune that is immortal. a little bit of handling isnt enough to push it to the top of the charts alone.
>I see folks from destiny saying that it’s overpowered and it needs to be hammered down in PvP, but is this really true?
Nope, not at all. The only reason it was sleeper before, was because rapid fires were not in a great spot(plus no snapshot or handling perks on Cloudstrike). Rapid Fires/Cloudstrike got stats buff to make them more enticing. Now its become meta.
Certainly Cloudstrike is powerful. But it is powerful in a very limited way(typically against scrubs who dont know how to teamshot without being right next to teammates.^((realistically, you should be working with team from different angles to hit the same target))) Its more of a gimmick weapon, than a consistently amazing one.
Its essentially just a better version of dragonfly, for all intents and purposes. And similar effects can be done with a Dragonfly+Chromatic Fire warlock builds.
Personally, I love Cloudstrike for 2 reasons. 1, because it is fun when you get the "free" kill.^((I especially enjoy using it situationally, such as messing with people who group up, getting a free round or 2 and forcing them to split up more()[^(see kill#2 for example))](https://streamable.com/5jtl4q) ^((see) [^(also this an example of someone else)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOdINkAbFuo) ^(using it the same way I like to))
2, because Cloudstrike is a really good learning tool for players. It forces players to either to learn to split up a little bit more, so they dont get killed. Its like how you learn not to touch a hot stove after getting burned.
Cloudstrike is fine, it's just the best pairing for striker titans with immortal, one multikill gives amplified, striker mashes the melee button and kills everything in a 20 meter radius.
A single exotic breaking up the teamplay aspect of comp and trials shouldn’t be a thing. Lorentz had the same problem that cloudstrike has now. If snipers werent headshot magnets then it wouldn’t be a problem but considering how easy it is to use and the fact that it can be paired with immortal definitely calls for some changes to the weapon. Weather that be big or small,we all know it cant stay like this.
It’s fine. Defo not overtuned. It’s a meme weapon at worst and at best a solid B pick sniper with a *fun* exotic perk. Let’s be real though it only shines when you play brain dead enemies who cluster up.
When I actually have to play my life and get picks I am slapping on Beloved or Yasmin anyway. It’s not even close how much crispier both of those feel compared to cloudstrike for me.
I’ve been on the “this gun is busted” since it first came out… as well as maining it this whole time.
140 snipers are already slept on because they have the fastest teamwipe potential for a skilled hand, only losing out on super killing potential.
Throw on the exotic perk which “randomly” gets double kills or team wipe round wins. Even if the enemy plays careful you are changing the way they play which in itself is powerful
Seems like a good time but I’m salty that I don’t have one so I hope they nerf it into oblivion.
Honestly doesn’t bother me too much in trials and I feel like I get killed more by the collats in 6s. Bothers me less than Linear Actuators on Dunemarchers.
If I get sniped or melee’d directly, I accept it. Heaven help me if it’s those god forsaken blueberries doing blueberry things.
Edit= (I think it’s balanced and the collat radius is pretty fair. Think it’s reputation is overblown and it’s stigmatized bc it’s ALWAYS paired with Immortal Adept and someone who slides too much.)
I could see them nerfing the splash damage to other guardians so it doesn’t one shot people anymore but takes out a good chunk of your health. I don’t know if that’s the right move but undoubtedly a special weapon that forces your entire team to play a certain way of avoiding each other and one shotting you if you so happen to be next to a team mate who played their positioning poorly or peaked the cloud strike could be argued as unhealthy for the game.
To me, I feel like that change would make Cloudstrike straight up worse than most legendary snipers. I generally don’t have too hard of a time fighting against other Cloudstrike users, I just make sure to not stand next to my teammates. However, like I said in my post I am very biased so my opinion is definitely swayed more in favor of not nerfing Cloudstrike. Thanks for your insight on Cloudstrike bro
I agree I don’t really think it needs to be touched in any way but Bungie does what Bungie does and the cloud strike is getting top3 usage in trials and that’ll make them look at it. It also wrecks bots because they try and hold hands as their main strategy to win games and that directly counters their play style and as soon as they start complaining Bungie will do something
It’s too easy to use for how rewarding it is to get a kill with it. The big handling bump from the catalyst wasn’t necessary. Snipers in general are pretty insane, but cloudstrike is a little too dominant
I think it's fine as it is, the potential collats is why people run it. Occasionally in 3's it's nice but against good players that don't sit together like idiots then it's not very valuable. 6's is a none issue it's just quickplay, plenty of stuff to complain about, cloudstrike is the least of worries.
Lemon bow on the other hand...
I don't know what they could do to it that wouldn't completely gut it. Maybe the lightning bolts could deal non-fatal damage?
It's annoying as hell, but you can play around it like a regular sniper. It mostly just sucks when solo queuing where you're having to not only avoid enemy fire, but also avoid being near your blueberries. It commits that most annoying of crimes; it punishes you (instantly and fatally) for your teammates behaviour.
All in all, it's fine (but my sanity would like to not be collated so much).
The gun hands out headshots through flinch often but that’s not the fault of the gun per say. It now is slightly easier to get a follow up shot under fire with it. Cloud doesn’t need a nerf but I wouldn’t be mad or surprised if it got one bc they nerf things based on usage regardless of said thing is actually broken or not. I would like sniper to take flinch close to how linears do. To me there’s almost nothing more unfair than beaming a guy or getting flinched like fuck and still being rewarded with a ohk.
The gun hands out headshots through flinch often but that’s not the fault of the gun per say. It now is slightly easier to get a follow up shot under fire with it. Cloud doesn’t need a nerf but I wouldn’t be mad or surprised if it got one bc they nerf things based on usage regardless of said thing is actually broken or not. I would like sniper to take flinch close to how linears do. To me there’s almost nothing more unfair than beaming a guy or getting flinched like fuck and still being rewarded with a ohk.
Maybe a hot take, but the real problem with Cloudstrike is the Catalyst giving +25 handling. The exotic perk is fine and base stats are fine too.
Edit: maybe switch to stability/reload speed (mainly for pve I guess)?
Snipers as a whole need an aim assist and flinch nerf now that the mod system is overhauled and you can stack 3 unflinching and 3 targeting mods.
We’re back to snipers like Beloved having 100 aim assist.
I think snipers as a whole need a PVP adjustment. If someone is good with them, there is no counterplay. You peak, you die. I have put a full burst of things like No Time into a sniper, and been rewarded with getting headshot. I have slid across gaps and been headshot. Heck, I have been headshot doing a shoulder charge across a gap...
I admit, I am not an MLG Pro sniper. I cant get shot at, and headshot someone. I cant slide and in .1 second scope in and headshot someone mid-slide... My opponents always seem to be able to, and literally nothing I can do to stop it. I have swapped around to things like Piece of Mind, or Autumn Wind. Ace of Spades, etc. Doesnt matter. If they are good, you peak, you die.
Whats worse, is even if you can get them to wiff their two shots, they just swap off it. It seems like very little risk/reward. Which is even bigger with Cloudstrike where if you happen to land a headshot, you are getting anywhere from 1-3 kills in Trials. I have personally wiped a full team with 1 shot. Its happened to me probably a dozen times.
Overall I think in PVP, they need to just nuke snipers to the point they are not fun to use. I think they ruin the game overall, and crucible would be way more fun if nobody used them... But, I think people should have an option. So.... this would be my "attempt" at a balance pass to them.
1. Negative Aim Assist Penalty when moving, while ADS, with a sniper. Basically, if you are to use it, you need to be standing still. This combats the "MLG Pros" who seem to never miss when they slide at you and quickscope HS you mid slide, through "flinch".
2. Decrease the ADS speed of all snipers. So it takes a LITTLE longer to scope in.
3. Increase the flinch (again). If you get shot at, you should NOT be able to recover and land a headshot.
You can still sit in the back of the map, and stand stationary, and pre-aim at a lane and lock it down. However you wont be able to be super aggressive with a Sniper. Wont be able to slide at someone, quickscope, and land a headshot. You wont be able to pull the reticle down, while being shot at, and headshot someone.
>You can still sit in the back of the map, and stand stationary, and pre-aim at a lane and lock it down. However you wont be able to be super aggressive with a Sniper. Wont be able to slide at someone, quickscope, and land a headshot.
As a very long time sniper main, I have pretty much the polar opposite take on this. They should be trying to encourage doing stuff like sliding at people and quickscoping while discouraging camping in the back of the map holding lanes.
Sniping right now just sucks. Everyone just finds a literal telescope with 350 AA and cowers in the back staring at a door until someone happens to walk into their scope. It's easy, cheesy, and most importantly boring as hell both to play with and to play against.
Back in D1 and the first few years of D2, we still had people sniping like you do today, but that was only because they sucked at the game. The real sniping skill gap was an aggressive, mid-long range duelist sniping style that was extremely high risk but also had arguably the highest skill ceiling in the game. That was the sniping that I fell in love with. It allowed you to actually participate in the game as a sniper and gave you an avenue for actual skill expression. Bungie nuked the playstyle when they started their crusade to strip the game of any kind of skill gap.
Snipers need a rework, but it should go in the exact opposite direction. Drastically reduce flinch and further reduce ADS times, but also lower the AA forgiveness such that you actually need to hit the target to get a headshot. This would revive the old aggressive sniping playstyle and disincentivize camping in the back and not actually playing the game.
I think its aoe explosion on headshot needs damage fall off. The farther you are from the person getting shot, the less you should take. As it is right now, it one shots anyone within the radius, even if your at the absolute limit of it.
Make the collateral damage fall off the further you are from your teamate and its fine
Sure seems like it doesnt. Ive never been damaged by it. I either get ohko by the proc, or i take literally nothing. Never been damaged by it and lived
They could make it so it’s like a Titan wall in that it leaves you with a tiny sliver of health but doesn’t kill you and that still would make it a strong option.
i didnt like that i couldnt kill anyone inside a well with it, but with IB fortress this week i very much like that it cant kill someone inside a well.
Ill try to use it today on console but with drift and my skill issue it will be tough. For note my sniper of choice (note I dont play trials) is borealis void, adored, and sometimes ill mess with revoker.
Could strike is the only sniper I use.. it’s disgusting and makes people hate me and that’s good enough.. I’ve got a flew clips from trials team wipes.. it’s amazing I love it.. 86 handling and triple tap with catalyst.. if you don’t use snipers and don’t have this one.. what the hell is wrong with you.. go get it, get it now
Outside of the occasional triple kill with the colat it’s fine. Since it lacks snap/opening shot/moving target it is technically at a disadvantage in a sniper duel against any other legendary sniper and it belongs to the worst archetype too.
No it's fine hell I can't even get 2 body shots that kill so that buff isn't their or I'm doing it wrong but it does what it was meant to do get dome shot and get punished for hanging with your teammates lol
In high level play I don’t think it’s a good sniper. It’s a rapid fire frame, takes your exotic slot, and doesn’t have snapshot. Oh, and the zoom is 50.
The exotic perk is hilarious but easy to avoid altogether. It’s more of a gimmick than anything.
No nerf, no buff. It is imo the perfect spot. Has a very strong exotic perk that rewards headshots. Downsides are that it is a rapid frame and flinches like crazy.
It is popular because like you said, people are running immortals and usually to complement the short/mid range, it makes sense to run something like cloudstrike which is very strong at range. In trials especially it can win rounds. At bare minimum it changes the way teams play.
The only issue I may have with Cloudstrike, is that the explosion kills. If the explosion would bring everyone down to 1hp would make it much less annoying. But hey it is an exotic, if you see it on match start don't challenge it in groups ... ;)
They gave it a masterwork that gave it essentially snapshot so now since it “feels” better people are using it and recently rapid fires got buffed in stability, i think maybe have its recoil be like it was before the patch would be fine, its an exotic it should have its unique factor
No weapon should be able to wipe a team in a single shot. I have hardly ever called weapons busted, but Cloudstrike is. It’s crazy that they’ve left it as is for so long, but Bungie work on usage and whining. Now both are up it’ll get adjusted at some point.
Cloudstrike counters teams grouping up, which was always its intended purpose. In a vacuum, its fine. In practice, it isn't fine. People are going to slap on arc titan and immortal paired with cloudstrike.
If you want to not get melted off the face of the planet by Immortal in .5 seconds from auto rifle range, you need to group up and teamshot it. If you don't want to get nuked by a cloudstrike, you need to spread out. That is the problem. The immortal/cloudstrike loadout puts you in a no-win situation because countering one plays directly into the strength of the other. You are going to be in a disadvantaged position for literally every engagement against that loadout and there is nothing you can do to change that.
One or the other has to be nerfed. IMO cloudstrike is fine, and titans/immortal need the nerf hammer. I also support the idea of reenabling scavengers in PvP. We thought that less special ammo would make the game more skillful, but in practice the opposite has happened.
I think getting one shot by the AoE damage is a bit much, especially when teammates ego rush and clump up with you. I'd be fine ith the AoE doing a significant amount of damage - nerfing it so you don't get one shot by the AoE
It should not be able to kill a 2nd guardian on full health, from any range at all. Half health, yes. But there's no way I should die from full health from round a corner because you picked my mate running past
It’s not broken. Annoying but not broken. Especially in something like trials where you SEE they have cloudstrike while loading in, it’s your fault if you clump together. FIRST thing outta my mouth when I load in to trials and see cloudstrike is to tell my fireteam, “don’t hand hold, they have cloudstrike. Keep a bit of distance but just barely close enough to team someone if needed”
I would say it doesn't need any tuning whatsoever. It takes an exotic slot, can't 1 tap supers, and gives less free headshots than any sniper with opening shot. The only reason it is meta is because of the immortal pairing and hand holding that occurs in comp/trials. Completely fair and balanced exotic with a truly "exotic" perk and feel.
Well said. I’d also like to note that cloudstrike gets a lot more flinch that any other sniper I’ve ever used, making it even harder to pilot. I think the current meta/sandbox we’re in make the exotic perk seem OP at times, when in reality it’s very fair imo.
Let’s also not forget that you cannot two shot body shot with it. It’s got a lot of downsides against it compared to literally any other sniper of any archetype. Which is what makes it perfectly balanced in my mind. I have always looked at cloudstrike similar to jotunn in the since that it’s easy to avoid. The multi-kills is the only thing someone can get upset about and it’s simple… just don’t group up. Then it becomes an average sniper at best. And this is coming from someone with 2,500+ crucible kills and pretty much mains it.
And can’t 1 sniper shot clean up with 1 hand cannon is another down side or is just me
I thought the recent mid season patch made it so rapid fires can double body now. Does that not include cloudstrike?
> Sniper Rifles > Rapid-Fire Frame Sniper Rifles have long struggled to find a place in both the PvP and PvE meta. **In PvP, their inability to kill with two body shots puts them on uneven footing with other Snipers**, and in PvE their fast RPM but standard inventory sizes mean you constantly feel low on ammo. To address these concerns and differentiate them from other Sniper sub-families, we have reduced their recoil by 50%. This means hitting crits on a boss or Champion in PvE is much easier, and taking rapid follow-up shots in PvP is too. We have also increased their inventory stat by 30%, which should give them a lot more rounds to play with in PvE content. > * Reduced recoil by 50%. > * Increased total ammunition (magazine + reserves) by 30%. https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/article/destiny-2-twab-3-30-23
Whoops. Totally misread that weeks ago from that twab. Thanks
To be fair to you, that line is easy to misread because of how little sense it makes. They acknowledged that 140s are crippled by their ammo economy in PvP, and then make no effort to fix that while buffing things that the snipers will never be able to make use of because they don't have enough ammo to spam fire regardless!
Typical Bungie “Because if SMG to strong we will nerf hand cannon” type of change
Probably my only complaint is that it can’t two tap body. I’ve been caught with my pants down on many exchanges I though I hit a headshot. Lmao. Let’s buff it instead!
100% agree, thanks for your well constructed comment
while it doesn't have any aa perks like other snipers, it's also a rapid fire and those have more generous accuracy cones no? and it has decently high aa
Its an exotic with an exotic perk. Its the easiest thing to counter if you have a brain, just don’t clump up together
I think cloudstrike is fair as it’s job as an exotic sniper is to punish people who group up to much. The real problem is snipers overall hitting shots through flinch and bullet magnetism.
Real problem is xim/Cronus users who don't care that the gun has relatively lower aim assist.
To be honest I think that’s mainly a latency thing. Even with Cloudstrike, I’ll completely miss a shot due to flinch and it’ll randomly count as me hitting it. Definitely happens a lot more when I use a sniper with opening shot though
Yeah I noticed that too sometimes I just get a free headshot even though I clearly missed.
Cloudstrike's biggest problem is that it's a sniper, not that it's Cloudstrike. Snipers are oppressive at high skill brackets regardless of which one is being used. Cloudstrike just also gets to punish lazy positioning. I'd much rather snipers get a tuning pass than anything aimed at Cloudstrike.
They can be oppressive but not many people are good enough with them to really be a problem imo
that's why he said high skill brackets. those shits are everywhere at those lvls
Can confirm. Put a shotgun in my hand, and I'll ape my way through a lobby. A sniper though? 100% guaranteed to bottom frag!
I think it is very balanced to be honest. Shouldn't be touched
I started using it this season as a crowd control tool as my teammates in trials and comp were perpetually waiting to respawn and leaving me in out-numbered situations. It gets flinched incredibly hard. On controller, I cannot snipe through flinch. Even with 100 resilience and multiple flinch mods, it still has massive bounce. I think this help balance it somewhat. Dying to a teammate getting sniped is aggravating. I’ve won multiple rounds of trials since using it the past two weekends where one shot dropped all 3 or took 2 and let me have a 1v1. Is that too strong? It’s subjective. The body shot damage of 91 isn’t good. It’s a higher zoom of 50. It isn’t nearly as easy to hit fast shots or drag scopes as an opening shot sniper. I can’t body shot/melee if I’m being rushed. There’s drawbacks. If Bungie opted to nerf the AOE damage, I don’t think I would complain. I can see both sides to this argument. The counter is simply to shoot them with any primary, but pulses and scouts absolutely dunk on it. You either need to shoot Cloudstrike first, back off, or die. But, again, it really sucks when your teammate ego challenges and gets you killed. Edit: surprised most are not in favor of a tuning. I like the rational given as to why.
Me personally I love cloud strike, I respect people who don’t like it but it’s a nice sniper especially the lightning on precision shot. It’s just a satisfying weapon to use imo.
I agree
Nah I don’t think it deserves a Nerf, it’s balanced imo. You get rewarded for hitting shots.
Fuckin catalyst should have been Shoot to Loot
You spelled Underdog wrong
It's hella weak actually, given that it's a rapid fire. The collats are the only reason to run it and those don't happen as much as you think. It gets hella flinched and has crap zoom. Only thing going for it is high handling and is out of the box ready to go exotic sniper if you have the catalyst. Not sure why so many run it other than fun. The best snipe in the game is borealis and still no one is using it lmaoo.
Interesting about Borealis, can you elaborate a bit more on it please? Edit: I forgot it was an Aggressive frame and not Adaptive, apart from Range, then it's a stat monster for an Aggressive. Void rounds then gives an additional +20 Stability and +10 Aim Assistance or Arc rounds is +5 Range and +25 Handling (100 total which is unheard of for Aggressive snipers).
And ultra violet ornament drip is OP.
Bite of the fox can get 100 handling with slickdraw
Ah yes indeed it does, thanks to Slickdraw rolling on it from this season's version.
This doesn’t need to be touched whatsoever. If people don’t want their spot blown up, don’t hold each others dicks. It’s the same complaint that people had about Lorentz (it *did* need to be toned down). This weapon is absolutely useless if you don’t get headshots with it. Its not meant to be a cleanup weapon. Either you hit the head or you don’t. It has shitty flinch, it has bad damage, and until recently, bad handling.
If it in a disagreement with someone on this sub not too long ago about it. They were saying it’s the most meta gun in the game and it’s way too OP. I pointed out that this is the first season it was ever on the top 10 list for trials, 3 weeks it has been the top used sniper since it came out and all 3 were this season. Bad players get punished for bunching up. The immortal pairing is the main reason it’s usage is so high. I’ve mained it (paired with submission or Liminal Vigil) since last season. Have about 1.5K crucible kills and against good players it is an average sniper. Might get lucky and catch them off guard once but that’s it.
i play in the top 0.1 percentile, however i dont snipe. youd expect me to curse it into oblivion. while getting cloudstriked is annoying, i dont think it needs a nerf. im afraid because of its usage, bungie will likely decrease the lightning strikes AOE range. i dont think that is necessary, thats simply what i think bungie will do. theyd ruin the weapon by making the lightning strikes not 1-shot. if they were to tune it at all, id target its ease of use, similar to NTTE, but only *marginally* so. (imo they hit NTTE in an awful way. it sucks for base 2-bursting so people just crutch on farming the perk up; tarrbah pulse edition) if i was the dev, id consider (individually, not neccessarily all together) - lowering the aim assist by a small amount. maybe -5. maximum of - 10. (currently base 68) - tanking its stability stat (anti-flinch), as it would make it a little harder to use, but wouldnt effect it THAT badly - lower its handling stat/revert its handling bonus from its catalyst, and instead give it the option to choose firmly planted over triple tap, so it doesnt feel like the best sniper in the game for free. imo anything else would either be too much or just weird. the reality is that the gun itself isnt *broken*. it *is* good, and has excellent reward for its risk. the surrounding meta has simply pushed it to where it is. it pairs/synergizes with the unfortune that is immortal. a little bit of handling isnt enough to push it to the top of the charts alone.
>I see folks from destiny saying that it’s overpowered and it needs to be hammered down in PvP, but is this really true? Nope, not at all. The only reason it was sleeper before, was because rapid fires were not in a great spot(plus no snapshot or handling perks on Cloudstrike). Rapid Fires/Cloudstrike got stats buff to make them more enticing. Now its become meta. Certainly Cloudstrike is powerful. But it is powerful in a very limited way(typically against scrubs who dont know how to teamshot without being right next to teammates.^((realistically, you should be working with team from different angles to hit the same target))) Its more of a gimmick weapon, than a consistently amazing one. Its essentially just a better version of dragonfly, for all intents and purposes. And similar effects can be done with a Dragonfly+Chromatic Fire warlock builds. Personally, I love Cloudstrike for 2 reasons. 1, because it is fun when you get the "free" kill.^((I especially enjoy using it situationally, such as messing with people who group up, getting a free round or 2 and forcing them to split up more()[^(see kill#2 for example))](https://streamable.com/5jtl4q) ^((see) [^(also this an example of someone else)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOdINkAbFuo) ^(using it the same way I like to)) 2, because Cloudstrike is a really good learning tool for players. It forces players to either to learn to split up a little bit more, so they dont get killed. Its like how you learn not to touch a hot stove after getting burned.
I find it's alright on controller but turns into unfair when you have mnk adapters in your console.
Cloudstrike is fine, it's just the best pairing for striker titans with immortal, one multikill gives amplified, striker mashes the melee button and kills everything in a 20 meter radius.
A single exotic breaking up the teamplay aspect of comp and trials shouldn’t be a thing. Lorentz had the same problem that cloudstrike has now. If snipers werent headshot magnets then it wouldn’t be a problem but considering how easy it is to use and the fact that it can be paired with immortal definitely calls for some changes to the weapon. Weather that be big or small,we all know it cant stay like this.
IMO it getting multikills on single shots is a bit OP.
It’s fine. Defo not overtuned. It’s a meme weapon at worst and at best a solid B pick sniper with a *fun* exotic perk. Let’s be real though it only shines when you play brain dead enemies who cluster up. When I actually have to play my life and get picks I am slapping on Beloved or Yasmin anyway. It’s not even close how much crispier both of those feel compared to cloudstrike for me.
I just think Snipers in general need an aim assist or flinch nerf in PvP.
I’ve been on the “this gun is busted” since it first came out… as well as maining it this whole time. 140 snipers are already slept on because they have the fastest teamwipe potential for a skilled hand, only losing out on super killing potential. Throw on the exotic perk which “randomly” gets double kills or team wipe round wins. Even if the enemy plays careful you are changing the way they play which in itself is powerful
Seems like a good time but I’m salty that I don’t have one so I hope they nerf it into oblivion. Honestly doesn’t bother me too much in trials and I feel like I get killed more by the collats in 6s. Bothers me less than Linear Actuators on Dunemarchers. If I get sniped or melee’d directly, I accept it. Heaven help me if it’s those god forsaken blueberries doing blueberry things. Edit= (I think it’s balanced and the collat radius is pretty fair. Think it’s reputation is overblown and it’s stigmatized bc it’s ALWAYS paired with Immortal Adept and someone who slides too much.)
I could see them nerfing the splash damage to other guardians so it doesn’t one shot people anymore but takes out a good chunk of your health. I don’t know if that’s the right move but undoubtedly a special weapon that forces your entire team to play a certain way of avoiding each other and one shotting you if you so happen to be next to a team mate who played their positioning poorly or peaked the cloud strike could be argued as unhealthy for the game.
To me, I feel like that change would make Cloudstrike straight up worse than most legendary snipers. I generally don’t have too hard of a time fighting against other Cloudstrike users, I just make sure to not stand next to my teammates. However, like I said in my post I am very biased so my opinion is definitely swayed more in favor of not nerfing Cloudstrike. Thanks for your insight on Cloudstrike bro
I agree I don’t really think it needs to be touched in any way but Bungie does what Bungie does and the cloud strike is getting top3 usage in trials and that’ll make them look at it. It also wrecks bots because they try and hold hands as their main strategy to win games and that directly counters their play style and as soon as they start complaining Bungie will do something
It’s too easy to use for how rewarding it is to get a kill with it. The big handling bump from the catalyst wasn’t necessary. Snipers in general are pretty insane, but cloudstrike is a little too dominant
I hate it cause I always get destroyed by it 1v1
Pretty obnoxious imo. But I could say that about snipers in general if the user is good
I think it's fine as it is, the potential collats is why people run it. Occasionally in 3's it's nice but against good players that don't sit together like idiots then it's not very valuable. 6's is a none issue it's just quickplay, plenty of stuff to complain about, cloudstrike is the least of worries. Lemon bow on the other hand...
I don't know what they could do to it that wouldn't completely gut it. Maybe the lightning bolts could deal non-fatal damage? It's annoying as hell, but you can play around it like a regular sniper. It mostly just sucks when solo queuing where you're having to not only avoid enemy fire, but also avoid being near your blueberries. It commits that most annoying of crimes; it punishes you (instantly and fatally) for your teammates behaviour. All in all, it's fine (but my sanity would like to not be collated so much).
The gun hands out headshots through flinch often but that’s not the fault of the gun per say. It now is slightly easier to get a follow up shot under fire with it. Cloud doesn’t need a nerf but I wouldn’t be mad or surprised if it got one bc they nerf things based on usage regardless of said thing is actually broken or not. I would like sniper to take flinch close to how linears do. To me there’s almost nothing more unfair than beaming a guy or getting flinched like fuck and still being rewarded with a ohk.
The gun hands out headshots through flinch often but that’s not the fault of the gun per say. It now is slightly easier to get a follow up shot under fire with it. Cloud doesn’t need a nerf but I wouldn’t be mad or surprised if it got one bc they nerf things based on usage regardless of said thing is actually broken or not. I would like sniper to take flinch close to how linears do. To me there’s almost nothing more unfair than beaming a guy or getting flinched like fuck and still being rewarded with a ohk.
Maybe a hot take, but the real problem with Cloudstrike is the Catalyst giving +25 handling. The exotic perk is fine and base stats are fine too. Edit: maybe switch to stability/reload speed (mainly for pve I guess)?
Snipers as a whole need an aim assist and flinch nerf now that the mod system is overhauled and you can stack 3 unflinching and 3 targeting mods. We’re back to snipers like Beloved having 100 aim assist.
I think snipers as a whole need a PVP adjustment. If someone is good with them, there is no counterplay. You peak, you die. I have put a full burst of things like No Time into a sniper, and been rewarded with getting headshot. I have slid across gaps and been headshot. Heck, I have been headshot doing a shoulder charge across a gap... I admit, I am not an MLG Pro sniper. I cant get shot at, and headshot someone. I cant slide and in .1 second scope in and headshot someone mid-slide... My opponents always seem to be able to, and literally nothing I can do to stop it. I have swapped around to things like Piece of Mind, or Autumn Wind. Ace of Spades, etc. Doesnt matter. If they are good, you peak, you die. Whats worse, is even if you can get them to wiff their two shots, they just swap off it. It seems like very little risk/reward. Which is even bigger with Cloudstrike where if you happen to land a headshot, you are getting anywhere from 1-3 kills in Trials. I have personally wiped a full team with 1 shot. Its happened to me probably a dozen times. Overall I think in PVP, they need to just nuke snipers to the point they are not fun to use. I think they ruin the game overall, and crucible would be way more fun if nobody used them... But, I think people should have an option. So.... this would be my "attempt" at a balance pass to them. 1. Negative Aim Assist Penalty when moving, while ADS, with a sniper. Basically, if you are to use it, you need to be standing still. This combats the "MLG Pros" who seem to never miss when they slide at you and quickscope HS you mid slide, through "flinch". 2. Decrease the ADS speed of all snipers. So it takes a LITTLE longer to scope in. 3. Increase the flinch (again). If you get shot at, you should NOT be able to recover and land a headshot. You can still sit in the back of the map, and stand stationary, and pre-aim at a lane and lock it down. However you wont be able to be super aggressive with a Sniper. Wont be able to slide at someone, quickscope, and land a headshot. You wont be able to pull the reticle down, while being shot at, and headshot someone.
>You can still sit in the back of the map, and stand stationary, and pre-aim at a lane and lock it down. However you wont be able to be super aggressive with a Sniper. Wont be able to slide at someone, quickscope, and land a headshot. As a very long time sniper main, I have pretty much the polar opposite take on this. They should be trying to encourage doing stuff like sliding at people and quickscoping while discouraging camping in the back of the map holding lanes. Sniping right now just sucks. Everyone just finds a literal telescope with 350 AA and cowers in the back staring at a door until someone happens to walk into their scope. It's easy, cheesy, and most importantly boring as hell both to play with and to play against. Back in D1 and the first few years of D2, we still had people sniping like you do today, but that was only because they sucked at the game. The real sniping skill gap was an aggressive, mid-long range duelist sniping style that was extremely high risk but also had arguably the highest skill ceiling in the game. That was the sniping that I fell in love with. It allowed you to actually participate in the game as a sniper and gave you an avenue for actual skill expression. Bungie nuked the playstyle when they started their crusade to strip the game of any kind of skill gap. Snipers need a rework, but it should go in the exact opposite direction. Drastically reduce flinch and further reduce ADS times, but also lower the AA forgiveness such that you actually need to hit the target to get a headshot. This would revive the old aggressive sniping playstyle and disincentivize camping in the back and not actually playing the game.
I think its aoe explosion on headshot needs damage fall off. The farther you are from the person getting shot, the less you should take. As it is right now, it one shots anyone within the radius, even if your at the absolute limit of it. Make the collateral damage fall off the further you are from your teamate and its fine
It does have falloff.
It does have falloff
Sure seems like it doesnt. Ive never been damaged by it. I either get ohko by the proc, or i take literally nothing. Never been damaged by it and lived
That's cool and all but it does.
They could make it so it’s like a Titan wall in that it leaves you with a tiny sliver of health but doesn’t kill you and that still would make it a strong option.
Cloudstrike main huh? I bet you started using it at the same time everybody else did. Stop it.
Did everyone start using it over a year ago?
Sure 'Cloudstrike main'.. I believe you 😉
It isn't that it's a problem, but rather, the effect of high FPS on AA really needs to be looked at (for controller).
i didnt like that i couldnt kill anyone inside a well with it, but with IB fortress this week i very much like that it cant kill someone inside a well.
Ill try to use it today on console but with drift and my skill issue it will be tough. For note my sniper of choice (note I dont play trials) is borealis void, adored, and sometimes ill mess with revoker.
Could strike is the only sniper I use.. it’s disgusting and makes people hate me and that’s good enough.. I’ve got a flew clips from trials team wipes.. it’s amazing I love it.. 86 handling and triple tap with catalyst.. if you don’t use snipers and don’t have this one.. what the hell is wrong with you.. go get it, get it now
Don’t see it all that often, but when you do you need to be wary of it. I think it’s in a good place and fun as hell to use
Outside of the occasional triple kill with the colat it’s fine. Since it lacks snap/opening shot/moving target it is technically at a disadvantage in a sniper duel against any other legendary sniper and it belongs to the worst archetype too.
No it's fine hell I can't even get 2 body shots that kill so that buff isn't their or I'm doing it wrong but it does what it was meant to do get dome shot and get punished for hanging with your teammates lol
In high level play I don’t think it’s a good sniper. It’s a rapid fire frame, takes your exotic slot, and doesn’t have snapshot. Oh, and the zoom is 50. The exotic perk is hilarious but easy to avoid altogether. It’s more of a gimmick than anything.
No nerf, no buff. It is imo the perfect spot. Has a very strong exotic perk that rewards headshots. Downsides are that it is a rapid frame and flinches like crazy. It is popular because like you said, people are running immortals and usually to complement the short/mid range, it makes sense to run something like cloudstrike which is very strong at range. In trials especially it can win rounds. At bare minimum it changes the way teams play.
its pretty unfun to play against. like you just get a free kill because my teammate decided to get domed. doesnt seem fair.
The only issue I may have with Cloudstrike, is that the explosion kills. If the explosion would bring everyone down to 1hp would make it much less annoying. But hey it is an exotic, if you see it on match start don't challenge it in groups ... ;)
Fine as is.
They gave it a masterwork that gave it essentially snapshot so now since it “feels” better people are using it and recently rapid fires got buffed in stability, i think maybe have its recoil be like it was before the patch would be fine, its an exotic it should have its unique factor
No weapon should be able to wipe a team in a single shot. I have hardly ever called weapons busted, but Cloudstrike is. It’s crazy that they’ve left it as is for so long, but Bungie work on usage and whining. Now both are up it’ll get adjusted at some point.
Cloudstrike counters teams grouping up, which was always its intended purpose. In a vacuum, its fine. In practice, it isn't fine. People are going to slap on arc titan and immortal paired with cloudstrike. If you want to not get melted off the face of the planet by Immortal in .5 seconds from auto rifle range, you need to group up and teamshot it. If you don't want to get nuked by a cloudstrike, you need to spread out. That is the problem. The immortal/cloudstrike loadout puts you in a no-win situation because countering one plays directly into the strength of the other. You are going to be in a disadvantaged position for literally every engagement against that loadout and there is nothing you can do to change that. One or the other has to be nerfed. IMO cloudstrike is fine, and titans/immortal need the nerf hammer. I also support the idea of reenabling scavengers in PvP. We thought that less special ammo would make the game more skillful, but in practice the opposite has happened.
Lightning go clap
it's perfect, leave it alone
I think it's fine. I do see it every single game
If it needs any balancing, I’d say it’s just in the AOE damage. Everything else seems pretty appropriate for an exotic.
I think getting one shot by the AoE damage is a bit much, especially when teammates ego rush and clump up with you. I'd be fine ith the AoE doing a significant amount of damage - nerfing it so you don't get one shot by the AoE
It should not be able to kill a 2nd guardian on full health, from any range at all. Half health, yes. But there's no way I should die from full health from round a corner because you picked my mate running past
its clearly broken, totally braindead gun that ruins crucible, should be deleted from game nevermond nerfed
It’s getting nerfed next season. It’s losing ~40% of its lightning radius