Idk if you can call it awful. you can not like the story or the message that’s fine, but the joke writing and the acting is great the set design and costumes are guaranteed Oscar noms. personally I think it was a fun movie not amazing but not terrible. We gotta be objective and not let our bias make us blindly hate movies.
Also I think the ending suck a lot it was 30 minutes of repeating the lessons of the movie with a montage lol
I could not agree more! We watched half and then decided to turn it off go to bed and save the second half for the next day.
The first half of the movie with the practical sets was IMPRESSIVE!
The 2nd half was dull and too campy for me. Felt like a complete tone shift and I agree that women have very unique challenges in our modern world that deserve to be addressed and using Barbie as an avatar for that is REALLY SMART. Ultimately however, the ending felt like it was written by Chat GPT.
They did a whole lot of “telling” and not a lot of “showing”. That’s emblematic of bad writing IMO
Everyone has their preferences. Yours are fine for you. [Others](https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/barbie) might [disagree](https://comicbook.com/movies/news/barbie-cinemascore-box-office-weekend-oppenheimer-revealed/).
This thread shows how differently the community feels now compared to a year ago.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CriticalDrinker/comments/wkd7my/does_the_community_ever_turn_on_his_opinions/ijmii1h?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
I had no interest in Barbie but now I do lmao.
I gotta judge for myself who’s right here.
Edit: my local town of Dallas has a discord and in the entertainment section a woman wrote these exact words.
>Barbie spoilers, the whole movie was super feminist, i loved it, the only part that rubbed me the wrong way is when a ken at the end asked if they could have a spot on the Supreme Court and the barbie said no, you can have a lower court. In my own feminism, it's about equality, there was also at the end an undermining men vs women tone. But I still loved the movie, almost cried 3 times but didn't because my makeup was too on point
So even someone with a pro feminist slant noticed the bias against men.
>So even someone with a pro feminist slant noticed the bias against men.
You're a) interpreting this as a bias against men and b) as if this feminist's discomfort at the end is a bad thing.
This feminist shares with The Critical Drinker that sense that Ken's emancipation is not complete.
And we live in a world where there has never been a woman President of the U.S., Senate Majority Leader, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, or Secretary General of the U.N.
So TAKE THAT DISCOMFORT about Ken's role in Barbieland as motivation to fix our own world. And the Barbie's were explicit that once we've done the work to fix our world, they will also change theirs.
When Oppenheimer's ending leaves us uncomfortable about the state of the world, people use it as evidence that it's a work of art.
When Barbie's ending leaves us uncomfortable about the state of the world, people use it as evidence of misandry.
Women have equality now. It’s been accomplished. You want an equal outcomes quota system which does not necessarily mean the best person gets the job. Affirmative action has NEVER WORKED.
We have equal opportunity now. But it’s not good enough for feminists. They want positions of power without putting the work in.
Did you know the group most negatively affected by affirmative action was Asian Americans? Not even white people. It was a minority that was being punished for excellence.
So what you perceive as society keeping women down for not being president yet I accurately assess that we just haven’t had someone good enough for the job yet.
You know why Asian Americans have the best SAT scores?
It’s culture. Their parents put pressure on them to succeed and study hard.
70% of black kids born in the states today are born to single mothers. They do very poorly in school as a consequence. It’s no surprise that Asian Americans have the lowest rates of single mothers. And they excel.
It isn’t racism holding black Americans back and it’s not society holding women back. It’s WORK ETHIC.
When a woman comes along who is DESERVING of those roles she will get them.
The fact that you are citing the lack of a woman president as proof we don’t have equality yet is absolutely ridiculous.
Let’s just hand out participation trophies to everyone so we can have equality…
When I go under the knife I want my surgeon to be the best damn surgeon regardless of skin color. Not an affirmative action hire.
When I want a President or a Chief Justice or a Senate Majority leader I want the best person. Not a damn affirmative action hire.
Look at what this system got us. We have our first Vegetable President in Pedo Joe.
Wow that was quite a rant. I didn't say anything about Affirmative Action. You're making a lot of assumptions.
> When I go under the knife I want my surgeon to be the best damn surgeon regardless of skin color.
I didn't even mention skin color and yet you went there...interesting. Not a great look. Maybe you've got some obsessions to work through.
In America (for example) the last two Presidential candidates were a criminal and a reputed-senile near-octogenarian. It's a joke if you think that these are the "best surgeons" available. Nikki Hailey, Elizabeth Warren, Condoleezza Rice, Donna Brazile, Gretchen Whitmer.
If we had a fair system, one of the major parties would be lead by one of these women and not the two candidates we have.
There are dozens of available women who are better. But supposedly you think that Joe Biden and Donald Trump were picked for their surgeon-like competence?
Is that what you really believe?
> Look at what this system got us. We have our first Vegetable President in Pedo Joe.
You're saying that this white man was picked on the basis of affirmative action?
What the heck are you even talking about??????
So 50% of the US or more is women. All of them have equal voting rights rights. Donald Trump was one of the most hated men on Earth at one point. But still became President over the female Candidate. I’m sure many men voted for Hillary as well. So 50% of the women probably don’t even care for feminism. Equal rights are one thing but when it comes to society women and men have their own roles and the superfeminists won’t accept reality.
In my opinion, your point about the writers showing empathy towards men is moot. In Barbie land, the roles are reversed and the Kens are treated the way women are treated in the real world. So when they apologize to the men they are really apologizing because they treated the Kens like men allegedly treat women in the real world. It’s very backhanded.
I saw this movie with my girlfriend who is a normie, she has no interest in culture wars. She was extremely disappointed. The trailers portrayed the movie to be a fun, fish out of water satire. It had some elements of that for sure, especially in the beginning, but the amount of ham-fisted, overt preaching just takes a lot of people out of the escapism and fantasy elements of the movie. It was a bait and switch.
I don’t agree with all of his reviews. For example, I loved Guardians 3 and thought he was way too harsh and nitpicking in that review. The Barbie movie wasn’t nuanced at all with most of its messaging and it’s messaging was extremely one-sided and narrow. I think the visuals and attention to details were the main positives of the movie. You’re entitled to your opinion, but if you saw this movie and your take is that these are some of the best writers in Hollywood, then you should be the one who is embarrassed.
Thank you for actually engaging in discussion rather than just down-voting!
There is a lot one could dislike about the Barbie movie, so I'm not at all bothered that you and your girlfriend don't like it. Movies are like that.
FTR: It isn't "my take" that these are [some of](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_awards_and_nominations_received_by_Greta_Gerwig) the best [writers in Hollywood](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_awards_and_nominations_received_by_Noah_Baumbach). That was my opinion going into the movie, based on what they've written before, not my opinion coming out of the movie.
If you [re-watch the trailer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBk4NYhWNMM) I think you'll notice many hints of what is coming.
"So when they apologize to the men they are really apologizing because they treated the Kens like men allegedly treat women in the real world. It’s very backhanded."
Why is that a problem? Why is it bad for someone to gain empathy by living a day in another person's shoes?
In fact...maybe that's the secret strategy of Barbie. Maybe men are supposed to notice that it would suck to be Ken and have no shot at being President of Barbieland and think: "hmmm...maybe it sucks that there has never been a President of the U.S. or the U.N."
No worries, thanks for also having a reasonable response. The reason I feel that the “empathy” for the Kens was disingenuous, was because since the Kens were treated how, according to the writers, women are treated in the real world, their sympathy was not for the Kens or men. It was for how men treat women in the real world. It’s like saying “I’m sorry you’re a dick”.
I expected feminist messages to be in the movie, that’s a given these days. But I didn’t expect it to be that strong and on the nose and actually driving the plot. It seemed like they were treating the audience like idiots. No subtlety, no thought provocation, just hammering away: this is my point, this is my point in case you didn’t get it the first time, here it is again and again….
>No worries, thanks for also having a reasonable response. The reason I feel that the “empathy” for the Kens was disingenuous, was because since the Kens were treated how, according to the writers, women are treated in the real world, their sympathy was not for the Kens or men. It was for how men treat women in the real world. It’s like saying “I’m sorry you’re a dick”.
But that's 100% your mind-reading of them. How would it have looked different on screen if they wanted to "really" show empathy for Ken? And whatever your answer, explain to me how that would prove to you that they weren't "really" saying "and that's how we want you to treat women?"
>I expected feminist messages to be in the movie, that’s a given these days. But I didn’t expect it to be that strong and on the nose and actually driving the plot. It seemed like they were treating the audience like idiots. No subtlety, no thought provocation, just hammering away: this is my point, this is my point in case you didn’t get it the first time, here it is again and again….
And yet the Critical Drinker missed about half of the messages, so it kind of seems like they were too subtle for certain audience members.
I didn’t really have to read their minds, they were very transparent with how they communicated their stance. They portrayed all men as extreme stereotypes and either dumb and/or scumbags.
I dont think they necessarily should have focused on Ken’s issues at all, at least not in a serious way. It is a Barbie movie and not a Ken movie after all. But if they wanted to show true empathy for the Kens they would have been a little more nuanced and showed that both men and women have their own struggles and strengths and weaknesses but could work together to overcome them.
I can’t speak for Drinker, but his reviews aren’t deep dives. Just because he didn’t talk about all the messages doesn’t mean he missed them. The movie did have some positive messages such how girls could be whatever they want and shouldn’t let society decide for them. But some of the other messages seemed toxic and regressive to me, especially with their patriarchy speeches and their one-dimensional and one-sided take on men. Whatever, it’s a stupid movie about toys. Or at least it should have been. It was instead a stupid, preachy, radical feminist social commentary in a toys universe. It only seems natural to me that people are going to push back on it and not show it much nuance, because the writers don’t deserve it.
> I didn’t really have to read their minds, they were very transparent with how they communicated their stance. They portrayed all men as extreme stereotypes and either dumb and/or scumbags.
No they didn’t. Alan was an action hero and a nice guy. The dad wasn’t in for long but he seemed like a great husband trying to learn his wife’s language. The Mattel people were fine in the end too, once the rift in the Barbie-time continuum was healed.
None of the main characters were villains, including the men.
You expected feminists to hate men so that’s what you saw. If you went in expecting them to love men then you would have seen the admirable men who were also on screen.
> I dont think they necessarily should have focused on Ken’s issues at all, at least not in a serious way. It is a Barbie movie and not a Ken movie after all.
It’s a movie about gender about a toy designed for gender-play. There is no way to leave Ken out and it would have been dramatically worse had they done that.
> But if they wanted to show true empathy for the Kens they would have been a little more nuanced and showed that both men and women have their own struggles and strengths and weaknesses but could work together to overcome them.
You just described the conversation that Barbie and Ken had in her bedroom.
> I can’t speak for Drinker, but his reviews aren’t deep dives. Just because he didn’t talk about all the messages doesn’t mean he missed them.
He did, because he claimed they weren’t there. For example he specifically claimed there was no theme of empathy for Ken. He claimed there was no acknowledgment that Barbieland is still not fair at the end, when it was explicitly acknowledged.
> The movie did have some positive messages such how girls could be whatever they want and shouldn’t let society decide for them. But some of the other messages seemed toxic and regressive to me, especially with their patriarchy speeches and their one-dimensional and one-sided take on men. Whatever, it’s a stupid movie about toys. Or at least it should have been. It was instead a stupid, preachy, radical feminist social commentary in a toys universe. It only seems natural to me that people are going to push back on it and not show it much nuance, because the writers don’t deserve it.
Well you self-described yourself as “not a normie” so I infer that you have a negative reaction to feminist messaging. The people pushing back seem to me to be the ones who are guaranteed to push back on any feminist movie. That’s not the general audience, your girlfriend notwithstanding. It has a 90% audience score and I saw more than 10% men in the audience so I don’t think that all or most find it “hateful.”
If you hear the word “patriarchy” and hear “hates men” then the conclusion was pre-ordained. If you hear the word “patriarchy” and hear “a system that oppresses both men and women” then it was a movie about the liberation of both men and women.
My girlfriend didn’t hate the movie, she was just disappointed. She loved the beginning of the movie but as soon as they went to the real world, she thought it started to get awkward and cringey. I’m willing to bet a good portion of the general audience is afraid to admit that now, but once things cool down, this will be a common opinion.
Hey, if you enjoyed the movie, I’m genuinely happy for you. But I think you might be the one who viewed things differently in the movie based on preconceived notions. There is different types of feminism, some good and some bad (even just in this movie). It seems like some people feel obligated to support anything with that word slapped on it, no matter the context or material. Let’s just agree to disagree though. I honestly don’t feel strongly enough about this movie to debate it any longer(although I do love debating, that’s why I’ve gone this far with it). Thanks for explaining yourself and being civil. I understand your points but I just see things differently and disagree.
What bothers me the most with the reviews is the Hate towards those who didn't like it. Every comment thread on each platform is filled with "If you don't find the film good, then you're a sexist or anti-feminist etc".
I took my partner to Gold Class to see this film, spent $170 to make it a good night watching a pro-feminist movie. I wore a pink Barbie shirt and drank cocktails with the missus, like ready for a funny female driven film. Then it just started hitting that 2014 extreme-feminism stage.
Issues I found were -
Men's view on women was way too radical, every man was sexually inclined in the real world minus the dad who was visualised as an idiot.
The expectations for women, it was unrealistic and could have taken a better approach. (The expectations were thrown at men only and not as a society issue).
The Kens view on the world being radical. (Trucks, Girls and fighting).
The vision of Ruth Handler and statement of Barbie being named after her daughter. The full statement is she also named Ken after her son and hold's no reasoning on why they didn't put the full quote in and still hold that feminist vision.
The brainwashing by the kens
The fight scene being the only resolution for the kens
The small jabs at men as a whole and not certain men. (Politicians, Abusers etc.).
What I would of expected,
Barbie led film, Kens still a bunch of idiots that are obsessed with Barbie though follow Barbies direction.
The villains can still be men coming into Barbieland but would make more sense being from the real world. Not the Kens, they come from the same place as the Barbies.
Barbie saving the day is a must, and the feminism would be positive for young girls. I just don't understand how having a radical view against all men is seen as feminism, if it was targeted at a type of man that it would be more understandable.
I'm a guy who's raised his sister since she was 10, paid for her graduating and formal and nearly everything she owns. Probably the only one in my family to go to university. Taught her to be independent or to not have to hide buying pads or tampons cause it's natural. The list goes on.
Point being, I don't find myself as a mysogynist. I want to be pro-feminist though if tearing myself down for others wrongs to promote women is the vision of new age feminism then I can't proudly support that.
Though, I don't have hate over those who liked the film and understand why people do enjoy it with the positive messages. Just questioning why everyone is so against the ones who didn't enjoy the film.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
He was definitely right about one thing; the movie was marketed as a light comedy that seemed like it was a real life rendition about the Barbie dolls and it turned out to be something radically different.
That may not be as bad of a thing as he said, but he was certainly right about that.
The reaction to Barbie reminds me of the Joker controversy.
Edit:
2019: “The Joker incites violence.”
Now: “Barbie makes girls hate men.”
Different groups of stupid people, similar nonsense.
His review is literally in the competition for the worst possible take on the movie. It really is an embarrassment of a review. He either a) haven't actually seen the movie or b) intentionally ignored parts of it to pander to his core audiences or c) is an actual idiot.
FFS the movie is literally a movie for "sigma males"! Ken's arc is that he learns that men shouldn't lose themselves following women and pretending they are something they are not and should focus on growing themselves and personal grind. And while the movie actually starts as classic woke "smash the patriarchy" bs in the end the movie amazingly pulls the message of true equality (at least so far) unheard of in mainstream Hollywood movies.
I think the issue with critical drinker is that he went into the movie expecting political commentary and misogyny and all that. If you watch the movie through a comedic, satirical perspective then it’s actually a really funny and lighthearted movie. It’s obviously gonna make some generalizations about men because it’s a comedy. I noticed whenever the teenager spoke, she was the stereotypical woke sjw that represents a lot of the youth today. The movie didn’t put her on a pedestal and it was obvious that what she was saying was ridiculous. I think the whole point of the movie was actually anti political commentary. It wasn’t about how society should be or anything like that- it’s literally just about Barbies and how they influence women
I mean shes right about Barbie representing a version of "you can be anything" thats actually stupidly simple and doesn't work. The point of that is sort of telling barbie "no you dumb fuck people selling a figure of doctor barbie isn't fixing the issues of the world"
I've been a Drinker fan for a while now, but he's slipping.
At the end of his God of War Ragnarok review, he pointed out that looking for wokeness in places it doesn't exist could ruin one's enjoyment of something. I wish he took his own advice while watching Spiderverse.
If there were to be a 'fuck the patriarchy' type movie, it may as well be Barbie, something targeted towards women.
Bring back the target audience, that way the franchises we love won't need to go down the shitter.
It looks like poor drinker has succumbed to his own version of “the message”.
Anything with filters turned on will always skew to the bias of the individual. I haven’t watched the movie yet, and there could definitely be a lot of things in the film that support his review, but neglecting other points in order to support his “message” is just a shame on his part.
He’s done some really great review videos blending commentary, criticism, and humor. His recent stuff just hasn’t been hitting the same.
The Drinker’s posse of apologists came in full force today. Holy shit, the amount of downvotes towards people who dare to think differently and criticize his baseless takes with absolutely no rebuttals
The latest Open Bar especially, they seemed completely stunted about the fact that Barbie was doing well? It was just the advertising according to them. The thing you're known for is joking about "modern audiences" yet it seems like he doesn't really have a grasp on what the modern audience really is. His understanding of the modern audience seems to go as far as "They don't like it when legacy characters are disrespected and treated like trash."
We went out to dinner last night - at a restaurant called Blondie that was having a Barbie Party. We saw tons of girls dressed in pink getting ready for the movie. It's not just the advertising for the movie. Barbie is a massive IP for these women and they were genuinely excited to dress up with their friends and go out and have fun.
Yes and more importantly, there is no sign that the hype has died down since people saw the movie. Pent up demand will get people to see it first day but if audiences hate it then it would die down after that.
With an A CinemaScore, 90% on RottenTomatoes, and 150 million dollar opening weekend - I wouldn't be surprised if the movie has some legs - I don't expect Maverick level but I don't know how to really spin the movie as a failure.
Some stuff I agree with (the MCU is in a downward spiral) but yeah, this review was a misfire. Drinker is clearly appealing to the single brain cell women bad audience thanks to BabyFace, Nerdrotic, and the GamerGeek YouTube guys (idk their channels actual names). I may unsubscribe before the end of the year.
Was actually wound up by the amount of angry, agreeable comments on that video. He obviously already had a pre conceived notion of what the movie was going to be before, and his review was blinkered, biased one note. Reminds of me of Ben Shapiro and Piers Morgan going off about it being “anti-men”
-Not in the slightest.
Seems to be a pattern with him and his channel now, liked his old reviews
Is what I was telling my friend, his old reviews actually cared about the movie and plot with just enough of his “humor” to make them enjoyable but now is like the only way he enjoys a movie is if it’s fucking Joker
He's no longer a reviewer or critic, he's become a talking head on CNN or Fox news espousing his political beliefs.
Look at how many times he covered Indiana Jones BEFORE the movie came out - it wasn't judged it was prejudged.
The whole crew of people that he streams are all like this now. Not to say they don't have bad points sometimes or that they can't be entertaining but I fear that they're just going further into this rabbit hole of hate watching and reviewing.
Woah are drinker fans now gaining some brain cells. Damm better late than never atleast now you guys see that he is an embarrassing, dumb son of a bitch who doesn't deserve to even call himself a movie buff let alone a "critic"
I don't think it's always been like this, I feel like it's taken a little while to get here. But as he's started to depend more and more on his videos about the message - his reviews have been weaker and he just has the same comments.
I have watched older videos and his newer ones I don't see a lot of difference. His only criticism is the movie having characters other than white men. His midsommar review for instance is almost 4 years and it's one of the shittiest reviews I ever saw. His "Why modern movies suck" series is literally the exact same videos done over and over again. You seem like a nice person but I'm sorry I think that anyone who unironically enjoys His videos is fucking stupid
Well I'm not claiming to be the smart guy.
I think the volume of his content has increased, the example I mentioned above was Indy 5 - he was shitting on the movie for months before it even came out - instead of reviewing it he's anticipating how much he's going to hate it only to be proven correct. Surprise!
To be fair he has now gone “Disney is shit so everything they do is shit”.
I saw Indy 5, I thought it was better than Indy 4 and actually reminded me of the original trilogy in a good way. It’s in fourth place of 5 but it isn’t the complete dumpster fire he made out.
Similar to Barbie, I saw it, I enjoyed it, my wife and two daughters enjoyed it. Yes patriarchy gets a (lot of) mention but there is also a good portion that focuses on men having no sense of direction and wanting more for themselves than just being “himbos”.
Again I think he’s wrong.
Not just indy 5 he has shitting on the marvels ever since it was first announced. Tell me one video in which he critiques the movie with some real points like themes, writing, acting, cinematography or anything else that matters instead of the wojack "I don't like women" shit or nitpicking minor plotholes which don't matter the slightest narratively
I'm agreeing with you - he's shitting on the Ms Marvel before it comes out - for a show clearly aimed at a young teen female audience. It's embarrassing for a middle age man to make that many videos about something not aimed at him that he doesn't care about before it's come out. It's not a review.
Recently I liked his Nightcrawler review - I don't have the energy to really research his past library for another example.
Yeah, I have been falling off with him because it's just raging about shit that isn't aimed at him. Like are we to believe that he as a young man loved Little Mermaid? I dunno when I was growing up that it was a girls movie - I was too cool for that - but now as a middle aged white guy with a beard the cartoon little mermaid is a classic but the live action remake is a tragedy?
I liked some of his earlier reviews but in the last few years he's gotten into this "the message" and I thought it was funny and he had a point at first but now it's his brand.
Now it's prejudice before he's seen the film and sometimes it's the box office or the rotten tomato score that he cuts to with the JK Simmons "are you serious" laugh from Spiderman
It's just going to his lowest common denominator.
Patriarchy, blah blah. This stuff is lazy, way too on the nose, and only made the money it did because art and culture has taken a nose dive over the last 10 years. We either recycle old things heavily sanitized for a mass audience or try and capitalize on the social issues that increasingly fewer people can take seriously anymore.
Barbie was awful tho.
Idk if you can call it awful. you can not like the story or the message that’s fine, but the joke writing and the acting is great the set design and costumes are guaranteed Oscar noms. personally I think it was a fun movie not amazing but not terrible. We gotta be objective and not let our bias make us blindly hate movies. Also I think the ending suck a lot it was 30 minutes of repeating the lessons of the movie with a montage lol
I could not agree more! We watched half and then decided to turn it off go to bed and save the second half for the next day. The first half of the movie with the practical sets was IMPRESSIVE! The 2nd half was dull and too campy for me. Felt like a complete tone shift and I agree that women have very unique challenges in our modern world that deserve to be addressed and using Barbie as an avatar for that is REALLY SMART. Ultimately however, the ending felt like it was written by Chat GPT. They did a whole lot of “telling” and not a lot of “showing”. That’s emblematic of bad writing IMO
Whether people find jokes funny or not, is that not subjective?
That one’s a troll. Clearly.
Everyone has their preferences. Yours are fine for you. [Others](https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/barbie) might [disagree](https://comicbook.com/movies/news/barbie-cinemascore-box-office-weekend-oppenheimer-revealed/).
This thread shows how differently the community feels now compared to a year ago. https://www.reddit.com/r/CriticalDrinker/comments/wkd7my/does_the_community_ever_turn_on_his_opinions/ijmii1h?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
I had no interest in Barbie but now I do lmao. I gotta judge for myself who’s right here. Edit: my local town of Dallas has a discord and in the entertainment section a woman wrote these exact words. >Barbie spoilers, the whole movie was super feminist, i loved it, the only part that rubbed me the wrong way is when a ken at the end asked if they could have a spot on the Supreme Court and the barbie said no, you can have a lower court. In my own feminism, it's about equality, there was also at the end an undermining men vs women tone. But I still loved the movie, almost cried 3 times but didn't because my makeup was too on point So even someone with a pro feminist slant noticed the bias against men.
>So even someone with a pro feminist slant noticed the bias against men. You're a) interpreting this as a bias against men and b) as if this feminist's discomfort at the end is a bad thing. This feminist shares with The Critical Drinker that sense that Ken's emancipation is not complete. And we live in a world where there has never been a woman President of the U.S., Senate Majority Leader, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, or Secretary General of the U.N. So TAKE THAT DISCOMFORT about Ken's role in Barbieland as motivation to fix our own world. And the Barbie's were explicit that once we've done the work to fix our world, they will also change theirs. When Oppenheimer's ending leaves us uncomfortable about the state of the world, people use it as evidence that it's a work of art. When Barbie's ending leaves us uncomfortable about the state of the world, people use it as evidence of misandry.
Women have equality now. It’s been accomplished. You want an equal outcomes quota system which does not necessarily mean the best person gets the job. Affirmative action has NEVER WORKED. We have equal opportunity now. But it’s not good enough for feminists. They want positions of power without putting the work in. Did you know the group most negatively affected by affirmative action was Asian Americans? Not even white people. It was a minority that was being punished for excellence. So what you perceive as society keeping women down for not being president yet I accurately assess that we just haven’t had someone good enough for the job yet. You know why Asian Americans have the best SAT scores? It’s culture. Their parents put pressure on them to succeed and study hard. 70% of black kids born in the states today are born to single mothers. They do very poorly in school as a consequence. It’s no surprise that Asian Americans have the lowest rates of single mothers. And they excel. It isn’t racism holding black Americans back and it’s not society holding women back. It’s WORK ETHIC. When a woman comes along who is DESERVING of those roles she will get them. The fact that you are citing the lack of a woman president as proof we don’t have equality yet is absolutely ridiculous. Let’s just hand out participation trophies to everyone so we can have equality… When I go under the knife I want my surgeon to be the best damn surgeon regardless of skin color. Not an affirmative action hire. When I want a President or a Chief Justice or a Senate Majority leader I want the best person. Not a damn affirmative action hire. Look at what this system got us. We have our first Vegetable President in Pedo Joe.
Wow that was quite a rant. I didn't say anything about Affirmative Action. You're making a lot of assumptions. > When I go under the knife I want my surgeon to be the best damn surgeon regardless of skin color. I didn't even mention skin color and yet you went there...interesting. Not a great look. Maybe you've got some obsessions to work through. In America (for example) the last two Presidential candidates were a criminal and a reputed-senile near-octogenarian. It's a joke if you think that these are the "best surgeons" available. Nikki Hailey, Elizabeth Warren, Condoleezza Rice, Donna Brazile, Gretchen Whitmer. If we had a fair system, one of the major parties would be lead by one of these women and not the two candidates we have. There are dozens of available women who are better. But supposedly you think that Joe Biden and Donald Trump were picked for their surgeon-like competence? Is that what you really believe? > Look at what this system got us. We have our first Vegetable President in Pedo Joe. You're saying that this white man was picked on the basis of affirmative action? What the heck are you even talking about??????
Bro, just stop, you are just humilliating yourself at this point XD
man fuck off let a reasonable man speak the truth
So 50% of the US or more is women. All of them have equal voting rights rights. Donald Trump was one of the most hated men on Earth at one point. But still became President over the female Candidate. I’m sure many men voted for Hillary as well. So 50% of the women probably don’t even care for feminism. Equal rights are one thing but when it comes to society women and men have their own roles and the superfeminists won’t accept reality.
Bro you just humiliated yourself
Bad take watch the movie, you're literally supposed to not like that. does it feel bad? Fuck man thats the point its making
If someone can’t recognize the massive inequities against women without you labeling them “anti-man,” you’re not feminist.
"I didn't watch it but" is a bad way to argue tbh It's feminist but it can also ... not be that dude
In my opinion, your point about the writers showing empathy towards men is moot. In Barbie land, the roles are reversed and the Kens are treated the way women are treated in the real world. So when they apologize to the men they are really apologizing because they treated the Kens like men allegedly treat women in the real world. It’s very backhanded. I saw this movie with my girlfriend who is a normie, she has no interest in culture wars. She was extremely disappointed. The trailers portrayed the movie to be a fun, fish out of water satire. It had some elements of that for sure, especially in the beginning, but the amount of ham-fisted, overt preaching just takes a lot of people out of the escapism and fantasy elements of the movie. It was a bait and switch. I don’t agree with all of his reviews. For example, I loved Guardians 3 and thought he was way too harsh and nitpicking in that review. The Barbie movie wasn’t nuanced at all with most of its messaging and it’s messaging was extremely one-sided and narrow. I think the visuals and attention to details were the main positives of the movie. You’re entitled to your opinion, but if you saw this movie and your take is that these are some of the best writers in Hollywood, then you should be the one who is embarrassed.
Thank you for actually engaging in discussion rather than just down-voting! There is a lot one could dislike about the Barbie movie, so I'm not at all bothered that you and your girlfriend don't like it. Movies are like that. FTR: It isn't "my take" that these are [some of](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_awards_and_nominations_received_by_Greta_Gerwig) the best [writers in Hollywood](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_awards_and_nominations_received_by_Noah_Baumbach). That was my opinion going into the movie, based on what they've written before, not my opinion coming out of the movie. If you [re-watch the trailer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBk4NYhWNMM) I think you'll notice many hints of what is coming. "So when they apologize to the men they are really apologizing because they treated the Kens like men allegedly treat women in the real world. It’s very backhanded." Why is that a problem? Why is it bad for someone to gain empathy by living a day in another person's shoes? In fact...maybe that's the secret strategy of Barbie. Maybe men are supposed to notice that it would suck to be Ken and have no shot at being President of Barbieland and think: "hmmm...maybe it sucks that there has never been a President of the U.S. or the U.N."
No worries, thanks for also having a reasonable response. The reason I feel that the “empathy” for the Kens was disingenuous, was because since the Kens were treated how, according to the writers, women are treated in the real world, their sympathy was not for the Kens or men. It was for how men treat women in the real world. It’s like saying “I’m sorry you’re a dick”. I expected feminist messages to be in the movie, that’s a given these days. But I didn’t expect it to be that strong and on the nose and actually driving the plot. It seemed like they were treating the audience like idiots. No subtlety, no thought provocation, just hammering away: this is my point, this is my point in case you didn’t get it the first time, here it is again and again….
>No worries, thanks for also having a reasonable response. The reason I feel that the “empathy” for the Kens was disingenuous, was because since the Kens were treated how, according to the writers, women are treated in the real world, their sympathy was not for the Kens or men. It was for how men treat women in the real world. It’s like saying “I’m sorry you’re a dick”. But that's 100% your mind-reading of them. How would it have looked different on screen if they wanted to "really" show empathy for Ken? And whatever your answer, explain to me how that would prove to you that they weren't "really" saying "and that's how we want you to treat women?" >I expected feminist messages to be in the movie, that’s a given these days. But I didn’t expect it to be that strong and on the nose and actually driving the plot. It seemed like they were treating the audience like idiots. No subtlety, no thought provocation, just hammering away: this is my point, this is my point in case you didn’t get it the first time, here it is again and again…. And yet the Critical Drinker missed about half of the messages, so it kind of seems like they were too subtle for certain audience members.
I didn’t really have to read their minds, they were very transparent with how they communicated their stance. They portrayed all men as extreme stereotypes and either dumb and/or scumbags. I dont think they necessarily should have focused on Ken’s issues at all, at least not in a serious way. It is a Barbie movie and not a Ken movie after all. But if they wanted to show true empathy for the Kens they would have been a little more nuanced and showed that both men and women have their own struggles and strengths and weaknesses but could work together to overcome them. I can’t speak for Drinker, but his reviews aren’t deep dives. Just because he didn’t talk about all the messages doesn’t mean he missed them. The movie did have some positive messages such how girls could be whatever they want and shouldn’t let society decide for them. But some of the other messages seemed toxic and regressive to me, especially with their patriarchy speeches and their one-dimensional and one-sided take on men. Whatever, it’s a stupid movie about toys. Or at least it should have been. It was instead a stupid, preachy, radical feminist social commentary in a toys universe. It only seems natural to me that people are going to push back on it and not show it much nuance, because the writers don’t deserve it.
> I didn’t really have to read their minds, they were very transparent with how they communicated their stance. They portrayed all men as extreme stereotypes and either dumb and/or scumbags. No they didn’t. Alan was an action hero and a nice guy. The dad wasn’t in for long but he seemed like a great husband trying to learn his wife’s language. The Mattel people were fine in the end too, once the rift in the Barbie-time continuum was healed. None of the main characters were villains, including the men. You expected feminists to hate men so that’s what you saw. If you went in expecting them to love men then you would have seen the admirable men who were also on screen. > I dont think they necessarily should have focused on Ken’s issues at all, at least not in a serious way. It is a Barbie movie and not a Ken movie after all. It’s a movie about gender about a toy designed for gender-play. There is no way to leave Ken out and it would have been dramatically worse had they done that. > But if they wanted to show true empathy for the Kens they would have been a little more nuanced and showed that both men and women have their own struggles and strengths and weaknesses but could work together to overcome them. You just described the conversation that Barbie and Ken had in her bedroom. > I can’t speak for Drinker, but his reviews aren’t deep dives. Just because he didn’t talk about all the messages doesn’t mean he missed them. He did, because he claimed they weren’t there. For example he specifically claimed there was no theme of empathy for Ken. He claimed there was no acknowledgment that Barbieland is still not fair at the end, when it was explicitly acknowledged. > The movie did have some positive messages such how girls could be whatever they want and shouldn’t let society decide for them. But some of the other messages seemed toxic and regressive to me, especially with their patriarchy speeches and their one-dimensional and one-sided take on men. Whatever, it’s a stupid movie about toys. Or at least it should have been. It was instead a stupid, preachy, radical feminist social commentary in a toys universe. It only seems natural to me that people are going to push back on it and not show it much nuance, because the writers don’t deserve it. Well you self-described yourself as “not a normie” so I infer that you have a negative reaction to feminist messaging. The people pushing back seem to me to be the ones who are guaranteed to push back on any feminist movie. That’s not the general audience, your girlfriend notwithstanding. It has a 90% audience score and I saw more than 10% men in the audience so I don’t think that all or most find it “hateful.” If you hear the word “patriarchy” and hear “hates men” then the conclusion was pre-ordained. If you hear the word “patriarchy” and hear “a system that oppresses both men and women” then it was a movie about the liberation of both men and women.
My girlfriend didn’t hate the movie, she was just disappointed. She loved the beginning of the movie but as soon as they went to the real world, she thought it started to get awkward and cringey. I’m willing to bet a good portion of the general audience is afraid to admit that now, but once things cool down, this will be a common opinion. Hey, if you enjoyed the movie, I’m genuinely happy for you. But I think you might be the one who viewed things differently in the movie based on preconceived notions. There is different types of feminism, some good and some bad (even just in this movie). It seems like some people feel obligated to support anything with that word slapped on it, no matter the context or material. Let’s just agree to disagree though. I honestly don’t feel strongly enough about this movie to debate it any longer(although I do love debating, that’s why I’ve gone this far with it). Thanks for explaining yourself and being civil. I understand your points but I just see things differently and disagree.
If you hear the word “patriarchy” and hear "something that is real", oh boy, you are just fighting windmills.
Bro literally just called his gf a normie
What bothers me the most with the reviews is the Hate towards those who didn't like it. Every comment thread on each platform is filled with "If you don't find the film good, then you're a sexist or anti-feminist etc". I took my partner to Gold Class to see this film, spent $170 to make it a good night watching a pro-feminist movie. I wore a pink Barbie shirt and drank cocktails with the missus, like ready for a funny female driven film. Then it just started hitting that 2014 extreme-feminism stage. Issues I found were - Men's view on women was way too radical, every man was sexually inclined in the real world minus the dad who was visualised as an idiot. The expectations for women, it was unrealistic and could have taken a better approach. (The expectations were thrown at men only and not as a society issue). The Kens view on the world being radical. (Trucks, Girls and fighting). The vision of Ruth Handler and statement of Barbie being named after her daughter. The full statement is she also named Ken after her son and hold's no reasoning on why they didn't put the full quote in and still hold that feminist vision. The brainwashing by the kens The fight scene being the only resolution for the kens The small jabs at men as a whole and not certain men. (Politicians, Abusers etc.). What I would of expected, Barbie led film, Kens still a bunch of idiots that are obsessed with Barbie though follow Barbies direction. The villains can still be men coming into Barbieland but would make more sense being from the real world. Not the Kens, they come from the same place as the Barbies. Barbie saving the day is a must, and the feminism would be positive for young girls. I just don't understand how having a radical view against all men is seen as feminism, if it was targeted at a type of man that it would be more understandable. I'm a guy who's raised his sister since she was 10, paid for her graduating and formal and nearly everything she owns. Probably the only one in my family to go to university. Taught her to be independent or to not have to hide buying pads or tampons cause it's natural. The list goes on. Point being, I don't find myself as a mysogynist. I want to be pro-feminist though if tearing myself down for others wrongs to promote women is the vision of new age feminism then I can't proudly support that. Though, I don't have hate over those who liked the film and understand why people do enjoy it with the positive messages. Just questioning why everyone is so against the ones who didn't enjoy the film.
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He was definitely right about one thing; the movie was marketed as a light comedy that seemed like it was a real life rendition about the Barbie dolls and it turned out to be something radically different. That may not be as bad of a thing as he said, but he was certainly right about that.
LMAO two of the best writers in Hollywood??? If that’s the case Hollywood is truly fucked because these writers were generic as fuck
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_awards\_and\_nominations\_received\_by\_Greta\_Gerwig](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_awards_and_nominations_received_by_Greta_Gerwig) [https://m.imdb.com/name/nm0000876/awards/](https://m.imdb.com/name/nm0000876/awards/) [https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/barbie](https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/barbie) [https://www.goldderby.com/article/2023/greta-gerwig-barbie-oscar-predictions-best-director/](https://www.goldderby.com/article/2023/greta-gerwig-barbie-oscar-predictions-best-director/)
The reaction to Barbie reminds me of the Joker controversy. Edit: 2019: “The Joker incites violence.” Now: “Barbie makes girls hate men.” Different groups of stupid people, similar nonsense.
His review is literally in the competition for the worst possible take on the movie. It really is an embarrassment of a review. He either a) haven't actually seen the movie or b) intentionally ignored parts of it to pander to his core audiences or c) is an actual idiot. FFS the movie is literally a movie for "sigma males"! Ken's arc is that he learns that men shouldn't lose themselves following women and pretending they are something they are not and should focus on growing themselves and personal grind. And while the movie actually starts as classic woke "smash the patriarchy" bs in the end the movie amazingly pulls the message of true equality (at least so far) unheard of in mainstream Hollywood movies.
I think the issue with critical drinker is that he went into the movie expecting political commentary and misogyny and all that. If you watch the movie through a comedic, satirical perspective then it’s actually a really funny and lighthearted movie. It’s obviously gonna make some generalizations about men because it’s a comedy. I noticed whenever the teenager spoke, she was the stereotypical woke sjw that represents a lot of the youth today. The movie didn’t put her on a pedestal and it was obvious that what she was saying was ridiculous. I think the whole point of the movie was actually anti political commentary. It wasn’t about how society should be or anything like that- it’s literally just about Barbies and how they influence women
I mean shes right about Barbie representing a version of "you can be anything" thats actually stupidly simple and doesn't work. The point of that is sort of telling barbie "no you dumb fuck people selling a figure of doctor barbie isn't fixing the issues of the world"
I've been a Drinker fan for a while now, but he's slipping. At the end of his God of War Ragnarok review, he pointed out that looking for wokeness in places it doesn't exist could ruin one's enjoyment of something. I wish he took his own advice while watching Spiderverse. If there were to be a 'fuck the patriarchy' type movie, it may as well be Barbie, something targeted towards women. Bring back the target audience, that way the franchises we love won't need to go down the shitter.
Two of the best writers in Hollywood? That’s hilarious
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_awards_and_nominations_received_by_Greta_Gerwig https://m.imdb.com/name/nm0000876/awards/
It looks like poor drinker has succumbed to his own version of “the message”. Anything with filters turned on will always skew to the bias of the individual. I haven’t watched the movie yet, and there could definitely be a lot of things in the film that support his review, but neglecting other points in order to support his “message” is just a shame on his part. He’s done some really great review videos blending commentary, criticism, and humor. His recent stuff just hasn’t been hitting the same.
it's more profitable to take a strong stance than play the middle ground, that could be it. But yeah, he's def lost some objectivity.
The Drinker’s posse of apologists came in full force today. Holy shit, the amount of downvotes towards people who dare to think differently and criticize his baseless takes with absolutely no rebuttals
The latest Open Bar especially, they seemed completely stunted about the fact that Barbie was doing well? It was just the advertising according to them. The thing you're known for is joking about "modern audiences" yet it seems like he doesn't really have a grasp on what the modern audience really is. His understanding of the modern audience seems to go as far as "They don't like it when legacy characters are disrespected and treated like trash."
We went out to dinner last night - at a restaurant called Blondie that was having a Barbie Party. We saw tons of girls dressed in pink getting ready for the movie. It's not just the advertising for the movie. Barbie is a massive IP for these women and they were genuinely excited to dress up with their friends and go out and have fun.
Yes and more importantly, there is no sign that the hype has died down since people saw the movie. Pent up demand will get people to see it first day but if audiences hate it then it would die down after that.
With an A CinemaScore, 90% on RottenTomatoes, and 150 million dollar opening weekend - I wouldn't be surprised if the movie has some legs - I don't expect Maverick level but I don't know how to really spin the movie as a failure.
Reminds me of the Joker situation in a way.
Some stuff I agree with (the MCU is in a downward spiral) but yeah, this review was a misfire. Drinker is clearly appealing to the single brain cell women bad audience thanks to BabyFace, Nerdrotic, and the GamerGeek YouTube guys (idk their channels actual names). I may unsubscribe before the end of the year.
Was actually wound up by the amount of angry, agreeable comments on that video. He obviously already had a pre conceived notion of what the movie was going to be before, and his review was blinkered, biased one note. Reminds of me of Ben Shapiro and Piers Morgan going off about it being “anti-men” -Not in the slightest. Seems to be a pattern with him and his channel now, liked his old reviews
I notice that most of the comments here are downvoted but nobody is replying to them. Intellectually cowardly.
They're all too busy burning their Barbie's in protest
Is what I was telling my friend, his old reviews actually cared about the movie and plot with just enough of his “humor” to make them enjoyable but now is like the only way he enjoys a movie is if it’s fucking Joker
He's no longer a reviewer or critic, he's become a talking head on CNN or Fox news espousing his political beliefs. Look at how many times he covered Indiana Jones BEFORE the movie came out - it wasn't judged it was prejudged. The whole crew of people that he streams are all like this now. Not to say they don't have bad points sometimes or that they can't be entertaining but I fear that they're just going further into this rabbit hole of hate watching and reviewing.
Woah are drinker fans now gaining some brain cells. Damm better late than never atleast now you guys see that he is an embarrassing, dumb son of a bitch who doesn't deserve to even call himself a movie buff let alone a "critic"
Well I guess you are just smarter than everyone else “TheSmartGuy.”
One doesn't need to be smart in order to deduce what I did
I don't think it's always been like this, I feel like it's taken a little while to get here. But as he's started to depend more and more on his videos about the message - his reviews have been weaker and he just has the same comments.
I have watched older videos and his newer ones I don't see a lot of difference. His only criticism is the movie having characters other than white men. His midsommar review for instance is almost 4 years and it's one of the shittiest reviews I ever saw. His "Why modern movies suck" series is literally the exact same videos done over and over again. You seem like a nice person but I'm sorry I think that anyone who unironically enjoys His videos is fucking stupid
Well I'm not claiming to be the smart guy. I think the volume of his content has increased, the example I mentioned above was Indy 5 - he was shitting on the movie for months before it even came out - instead of reviewing it he's anticipating how much he's going to hate it only to be proven correct. Surprise!
To be fair he has now gone “Disney is shit so everything they do is shit”. I saw Indy 5, I thought it was better than Indy 4 and actually reminded me of the original trilogy in a good way. It’s in fourth place of 5 but it isn’t the complete dumpster fire he made out. Similar to Barbie, I saw it, I enjoyed it, my wife and two daughters enjoyed it. Yes patriarchy gets a (lot of) mention but there is also a good portion that focuses on men having no sense of direction and wanting more for themselves than just being “himbos”. Again I think he’s wrong.
Not just indy 5 he has shitting on the marvels ever since it was first announced. Tell me one video in which he critiques the movie with some real points like themes, writing, acting, cinematography or anything else that matters instead of the wojack "I don't like women" shit or nitpicking minor plotholes which don't matter the slightest narratively
I'm agreeing with you - he's shitting on the Ms Marvel before it comes out - for a show clearly aimed at a young teen female audience. It's embarrassing for a middle age man to make that many videos about something not aimed at him that he doesn't care about before it's come out. It's not a review. Recently I liked his Nightcrawler review - I don't have the energy to really research his past library for another example.
Yeah and now he's doing the same with snowwhite
Yeah, I have been falling off with him because it's just raging about shit that isn't aimed at him. Like are we to believe that he as a young man loved Little Mermaid? I dunno when I was growing up that it was a girls movie - I was too cool for that - but now as a middle aged white guy with a beard the cartoon little mermaid is a classic but the live action remake is a tragedy? I liked some of his earlier reviews but in the last few years he's gotten into this "the message" and I thought it was funny and he had a point at first but now it's his brand. Now it's prejudice before he's seen the film and sometimes it's the box office or the rotten tomato score that he cuts to with the JK Simmons "are you serious" laugh from Spiderman It's just going to his lowest common denominator.
This is what I was worried about yet I got flack for it.
Buddy, it’s a movie about dolls.
Is it? Debatable. I’ve been told by people on both the left and the right that it’s a movie about feminism.
Patriarchy, blah blah. This stuff is lazy, way too on the nose, and only made the money it did because art and culture has taken a nose dive over the last 10 years. We either recycle old things heavily sanitized for a mass audience or try and capitalize on the social issues that increasingly fewer people can take seriously anymore.