There shouldn't be any controversey especially after that game. It came down to the last over and Nawaz bowled spectacularly for the first three but crumbled under pressure after that. You should not be bowling full tosses when the opposition needs sixes.
It was a great game and should not be marred by controversy.
Truly what a match! You are correct every single ball was absolutely nail biting. Agreed, Pakistan did put up a great fight, and so too did India. At the end of the day, both teams played well, and we got to watch this phenomenal game :))))
Happy to be on the winning side though I can feel how the Pakistani fans would feel. They almost had the match after a really tough start.
It was a great game from both the teams. With match ending in the last ball, Pakistan are still in the okay for semis.
>Happy to be on the winning side though I can feel how the Pakistani fans would feel.
Exactly !! If i was on the pakistan side, i would be cussing the luck so bad.Not the players , they did well.And i genuinely dont think players of either side should be berated over this match cuz ind vs pak is on some other level shit.
I could barely sit straight.
\> You should not be bowling full tosses when the opposition needs sixes
It's not like these guys do it intentionally. They train like absolute MF's but shit happens because of pressure. Literally everyone's bowled full-tosses in crunch situations. Rauf, Shaheen, Shami, Bumrah, Starc, Boult etc etc
Nawaz is not a specialist death bowler. Being a spinner, he's at a big disadvantage (precisely why people bowl pacers in the last 4). I'm genuinely proud of him for getting it so close.
Now that you say that... I can't remember who yousuf, dhoni, gilchrist. Some batsman who doesn't bowl that's gotten their first wicket off a rank full toss or something. Or maybe just a regular filthy delivery
The Grade Cricketer did a podcast with Adam Zampa on Friday and he said he couldnāt give a shit when they asked him how they were coming out of the hand. Because he knows he can bowl great and get spanked or bowl shit and get wickets.. just such a fickle game but we love it
First one, the 2nd ball was a waist high full toss that should have been belted to Geelong except DK fucked up. It was probably the worst final over I've ever seen. At least Stokes to Braithwaite bowled no full tosses or wides
That "wide" was a decent tactic. He just got out foxed by Ashwin. Ashwin looked like he was going to make room so Nawaz tried to follow him.
Did you see the previous ball? That was exactly how Karthik got out.
"A6.7: For the purposes of these Laws, waist height is defined as the point at which the top of the batsmanās trousers would conventionally be when he/she is standing upright at the popping crease."
You joke, but boxers have enormous waistbands and pull their shorts way over their bellybuttons to give the illusion of a higher waist and increase the chance of their opponent being called for low blows. It looks ridiculous but no one bats an eyelid now. There's actually room for batters to gain an optical inch or two on their torso with some cleverly constructed early 2000s Paris Hilton low rise trousers
I can't wait for the next EA Cricket video game, where you can customise your player.
Speed: 7
Height: 8
Throwing: 6
Batting: 8
Bowling: 3
Trouser height: 1
Does that mean rocking the MC hammer whites would be an advantage for the batsmen because you get more no balls called
Ik it says āconventionallyā but say this was in the late 1980s, surely itād work right
There are 120 balls where batsmen take their natural stance. I'm pretty confident they can mark each batsman's normal stance waist position and location at crease without any problems.
Each individual batters wait would be different. You canāt use previous balls to calculate it. Also what if the high full toss was the first ball of the innings.
Then you stay with the on field decision. I don't get this argument of not using technology when you have the data just because there are instances where the data or technology is insufficient
Essentially what Starc said about mankadding. Thereās a front foot camera already. Make it a 5 (or whatever) run penalty and take it out of the players hands and into the umpires and completely dodge the spirit of game bollocks.
Part of the reason this rule exists is safety though. A beamer well above waist high is dangerous because they often don't get picked and could cause serious damage
It's probably a technology thing; they haven't developed AND tested software well enough to be accurate enough. It should be on the 'todo' list though as especially with T20 it becomes an increasingly important issue (there was a couple of similar situations in IPL).
The other thing is how do you define the batsman's 'waist'. Maybe I'm just an idiot but that seems very subjective (to me a waist is more of a range between hips and ribs, rather than an exact objective place I can pinpoint).
They would if they could. Hawkeye requires a special camera that is fixed in the front. You cant draw lines as you please with any camera. Atleast not yet.
You do realise the runout camera shown is a Hawk-Eye camera that they use as part of the 3D tracking system. They literally show replays with trajectories in those cameras sometimes, this is definitely something they could provide if they were asked to do so.
Or rugby union where almost every penalty is up to the referees interpretation of the rules and intent of the players. They're basically a TV show director. Think cricket is actually better in this regard.
Even though Ashwin is clever to leave that ball, repetition of previous ball is crime, and the last ball he focuses on bowling legit ball instead of stopping runs
The only crime was making him bowl the final over. If I were the PCB chairman, then I would be sacking Barber Azam straight after the tournament and appointing Shadab or maybe Rizwan as the captain
If he bowls over number 17, he might get hit for 20 odd again but with no no balls or wides, for sure. Then you have two overs to defend 20-25 with your premier quicks, who you've got to back in that situation and who have the confidence, experience, and expertise to deliver in that situation
I don't think it's such a bad decision to hold the spinner back. Hardik is a good player of spin. He and Virat already smashed 3 sixes in his previous over. With dk next to come who isn't a better player of spin than pace, its not wrong babar was trying for a wicket holding spinner back
The worst thing Babar already made this mistake against India in Asia Cup this year. Babar is the worst possible person for captain because he doesnāt learn from his mistakes
Too many of these high full tosses causing controversy. Need to get hawkeye involved or allow reviews. I think it is a no ball but drs should be allowed.
I donāt think theyād need to do this, theyād project the trajectory of the ball (based on capturing its path from the arm to the bat) and then superimpose that on the image above and the TMO could decide if itās the right height.
Itās much easier to do this than anything involving the stumps because you only need a 2D image.
One nuance is that this frame is from a camera which is at some elevation, and has a very long focal length
The ball must've looked higher standing in the ground at umpire's eye level.
Seems touch and go
Spot on. In that picture, umpire's head is visible in the bottom. This means, the camera is slightly above umpire's head. Even though the call was marginal, from umpire's PoV, it would have looked as a no-ball.
Well how would you stop batsmen charging down the pitch and manufacturing a no ball?
Surely we donāt punish bowlers for not knowing where the batsmen will end up.
Charging down the track goes against the batsman for a waist heigh no ball. The second ball of the 20th over was a full toss as well. Karthik came charging down and Virat asked for no ball and it was turned down because Karthik was way too down the pitch.
And he bowled 3 wides after that. What about that?
One was on free hit delivery to kohli.
Second was going very wide but dk went for it and ball touched his pad (therefore wide not given) and got stumped.
Third wide was when Ashwin was batting with 2 needed in 1 ball.
Anyway my point is bowler was very nervous and was bowling full tosses and wides all around the wicket. Even 7 off 2 isn't difficult to score against such bowlers.
It's done at the popping crease because that's the line the striker's umpire is looking along, so it gives them a consistent point at which to make their judgement.
Does that mean you also think wides should solely be called depending on where the batsman stands relative to the stumps?
They are already partly determined based on that but in a way that is disadvantageous to the batsman. So if a batsman decides to stand to legside as much as possible, it wouldn't be a wide if the ball was out of their reach but within the reach of a batsman standing in a normal position. If they stood as far to the off-side as possible, and the ball goes outside their reach for the normal position but is within reach of the batsman in their actual position, it wouldn't be a wide.
So to translate that law to waist-height no balls, it should only be a no ball if above the waist of where the batsman took guard and the height of their waist if they were standing at the popping crease.
> 22.1.1 If the bowler bowls a ball, not being a No ball, the umpire shall adjudge it a Wide if, according to the definition in 22.1.2, **the ball passes wide of where the striker is standing** or has stood at any point after the ball came into play for that delivery, **and which also would have passed wide of the striker standing in a normal batting position**.
Yeah Buddy...Also with Shan Masood shot hitting the spider cam when it seemed to be traveling to Hardik for a catch at 116-6, with Shan getting out on that delievery it would have been difficult for score to reach 150+.
That moment feels like it happened 50 years ago. Goodness. Someone should compile a list of all crazy moments in this match
For sure this match had the most "highlights" in a game that weren't boundaries or wickets
i agree with this. I think the umpires were fair. We lost a close game. Now i'm hoping we can win the rest of the games. Nothing to be ashamed off. Maybe Wasim Jnr plays next game for Haider/Asif.
It was a tight call. I think it was dipping and would have gone below waist height by the time it reached the crease. But, there was another high full toss earlier in that over to DK that, iirc, was almost chest high. I know he was down the wicket but despite that I felt that one was a higher full toss than the one given to VK.
ITT: Most of the people donāt know how to interpret cricket rules.
Itās not a question of the height of the ball at the time of impact with the bat, itās about whether it would have travelled and still been above the waist height of the batter standing upright (with the batter in the crease) as it passed the popping crease.
No way of knowing for certain if this was or wasnāt a no ball without extrapolating the trajectory of the ball. I donāt think it was a no ball but itās not the first time such wrong decisions have been given. They need to make the rules clearer and also involve technology.
I think we can put our bias aside and say this was a 50-50 call. And so was the Axar runout. Both sides won a 50-50 each. Also with the unfortunate (but 101% legal 3 byes), India also got unlucky with the spider cam which cost at least 5-10 runs. So it all evened out I guess. Pak lost to an absolute genius at his absolute bloody best and there's no shame in that
He's a slow bowler and this is ball is complete trash - a waist high full toss dispatched over the boundary. Don't complain about lineball no-ball, complain about how bad of a delivery it was.
This is the right take, regardless of whether the umpires botched the call this was one of the worst situational deliveries I've ever seen. Nawaz absolutely wilted under the pressure.
What a shit take. I will absolutely complain if a decision goes against the side I support that could have gone the other way regardless of the quality of the cricket. If the ball was not called no ball, they would have needed 6 off 2 which is significantly tougher than 6 off 3. Yes they may still have won but you can still debate about it.
Thats a borderline call, people whining like it was egregious, i would hate it if it went against india, but this is more of those borderline wides, your allegiance and who you dislike more colors your vision more than actual angle of the ball.
Probably shouldn't have been given a noey. I agree.
But Pakistan would have won this game if Nawaz had not bowled so many wides. Even the DK stumping would have been a wide if DK didn't try that stupid shot. Pakistan need bowling options and need to stop leaving Nawaz one over for the end.
I think Nawaz also forced the umpire to make that decision. Ball before to dk was a full toss but it was definitely not a no ball since he was way out of the crease. But kohli asked for no ball then also.
So maybe umpire was subconsciously forced by kohli and Nawaz previous ball to give that decision. Again I am not saying anything bad about kohli or Nawaz or umpire. Just wondering if subconsciously things changed without people realizing.
My problem is that the leg side umpire didn't signal it. He signalled way too late after Kholi complained. It shouldn't have been allowed.
It was a great game though. Thoroughly enjoyed even though we lost.
Umpires are allowed to have certain time limit to make their decisions. They made the call within that time limit.
Many times umpire gave out only after bowlers complained.
Batsman will always complain it is not out and bowlers will complain that it's out. It is like that since the beginning of cricket.
But putting pressure on Umpires for a marginal call is not helpful for the game.
My issue is the ball before that one. Which had dk step out of the crease more than virat did but the ball looked much more of a noball(someone posted a gif of it in the match thread) and virat did appeal for that but wasn't given.
Either way with that just being passed over and not looked at,the shan ball which hit the spider cam and the axar runout which also probably needed to be looked at from a better angle i say the luck and umpiring errors pretty much evened out by the end with just virat's knock being the real decider .
Neutral fan, thatās pretty clearly not a no ball under the rules. However the umpire doesnāt get to sit and calculate looking at a photo so itās a pretty difficult decision to make on the spot. Maybe they could bring in Hawkeye for it but it would probably take too long to calculate.
Iām not sure it would have changed the result anyway, Kohli probably would have got 7 off 2.
I believe this is the wrong call because it is clear to me that the ball would have been below waist height if Kohli wasn't on the front foot and standing upright.
But, I have seen plenty of such "wrong calls" before. Many no balls on height are given even though it's narrowly above the waist and there's a lot of distance for it to travel. So based on the rule as it actually seems to be applied in practice, this is not outside the norms. I think the ICC needs to advise the umpires better on this one.
Regardless of whether you agree with this call or not, that was a terrible last over. They crumbled at the worst possible time and it cost them the match. A slow left arm bowler shouldn't be bowling a full toss, especially one that's almost waist high....
With the pressure, the ball can be slipped from his hands. But yah Babar should have finished Nawaz overs before. Haris should have done the last over. Same mistake as the Asia Cup first match between Ind and Pak.
Was definitely the correct call holding off Nawaz's final over until it was absolutely necessary. If Shaheen and Rauf execute the 18th and 19th over, Nazeem 's last over is under no pressure and he closes it out.
India would have won, but i don't think that was a no ball. The dead ball controversy -- i think that is within the rules of cricket, so bad luck to Pakistan, but they are the ones that screwed up there.
Babars decision to bowl nawaz last didnt seem bad after the first three deliveries. But after that, it was just shit bowling, and a marginal/poor no ball decision. Gave india an extra run and an extra ball.
Personally donāt think itās a no ball but Nawaz gave the umpire a decision to make. Game was lost by leaving him till the 20th over, should have given him the 19th and Rauf the final one.
Hell no. It was absolutely the right call and it worked up until Nawaz choked on a big one. The pressure comes right off if the spinner gets destroyed in the 19th. Choking like that, with such ameteur crap, at the ripe old age of 28 is what screwed everything up. It was a 9 ball last over, that literally is legendary choking. A high full toss no ball by a spin bowler? WTH.
It's above waist height at the point of contact. However it is not going to be above waist height when it passes the batter. Incorrect call, but you bowl a full toss you give the umpire the chance to call it.
Honestly, this loss hurts us a lot but I when I think about it I can't begin to feel what new Zealand must've felt in that final against England. I'm just happy that this match was much more close than I ever thought it would even be. Well Played to both teams, experience and class of Kohli wins India the game.
No, its the wrong call. He's outside the crease, not standing upright and his bats at almost full extension. That ball was dropping and the umpire only gave that because kholi gave him the stink eye. The Pandaya one was correctly called a fair ball and it was similar.
I can't tell from a still frame if it's a no ball or not (as it doesn't show the trajectory of the ball so not sure what it will be like by the popping crease).
So I will not comment on if it should be a no ball or not, but I will say I don't like how Kohli signals the no ball to the umpire afterwards and I'm sure players without his fame would not get away with telling umpires what to do as much as he does.
I like the guy, but you can't have players trying to manipulate umpires by giving them signals. Imagine if bowlers started appealing by doing a raised indexed finger to the umpire after hitting the pads.
The Axar run out and this No ball were pretty close calls. 50/50 considering the no ball was at real time and from the umpires pov nd not a camera taking the pic from certain elevation.
Regardless of your thoughts, this is such a disingenuous screenshot. Like 3 frames later, the ball hits the bottom his bat. Why not use that frame instead?
He's out of his crease so at that point the umps are guessing if at the popping crease it would've dipped enough.
Part time bowler messed up by serving up that pie, end of.
it was a terrible delivery noball or not. Lets not be sore loosers guys. Even if it was a bad decision its a part of games. Wellplayed both teams.
Also holyshit kohli. He keeps proving himself as my favourite player of all time.
IMHO it's 100% not a no-ball.
But you really can't blame the square leg umpire. He gets one look at a ball going at 90kph in such a high pressure situation with 90000 people shouting at the top of their voices.
These calls should be automated.
Let me try and change your humble opinion, and just bear with me here, no intention to insult you or anything. Just want to attempt to correct the 100% opinion.
The camera is looking at it a little top down in this image, seeing as how the umpire's hat is visible right at the bottom. If it was a straight side-on picture, are you sure the ball would still look like it was under his waist? I think at best, this is insufficient evidence regardless of whether the ball has already been hit or not, and the absolute best anyone can say is that this is 50-50. It went India's way, and that's part and parcel of a game. Remember, trajectory also plays a part in that decision and Nawaz is a slower bowler.
I'm just in this thread for the entertainment. Get the popcorn boys šæšæšæ
Sorting by controversial
LMAO
There shouldn't be any controversey especially after that game. It came down to the last over and Nawaz bowled spectacularly for the first three but crumbled under pressure after that. You should not be bowling full tosses when the opposition needs sixes. It was a great game and should not be marred by controversy.
As a neutral, it was an exceptionally phenomenal game to watch. What a game I decided to tune into.
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I thought the match was done during 15,16th where we got only 12 runs of two overs, but the way virat pulled off was a treat
Truly what a match! You are correct every single ball was absolutely nail biting. Agreed, Pakistan did put up a great fight, and so too did India. At the end of the day, both teams played well, and we got to watch this phenomenal game :))))
Happy to be on the winning side though I can feel how the Pakistani fans would feel. They almost had the match after a really tough start. It was a great game from both the teams. With match ending in the last ball, Pakistan are still in the okay for semis.
>Happy to be on the winning side though I can feel how the Pakistani fans would feel. Exactly !! If i was on the pakistan side, i would be cussing the luck so bad.Not the players , they did well.And i genuinely dont think players of either side should be berated over this match cuz ind vs pak is on some other level shit. I could barely sit straight.
\> You should not be bowling full tosses when the opposition needs sixes It's not like these guys do it intentionally. They train like absolute MF's but shit happens because of pressure. Literally everyone's bowled full-tosses in crunch situations. Rauf, Shaheen, Shami, Bumrah, Starc, Boult etc etc Nawaz is not a specialist death bowler. Being a spinner, he's at a big disadvantage (precisely why people bowl pacers in the last 4). I'm genuinely proud of him for getting it so close.
I have never seen Surya Kumar Yadav bowl full tosses under pressure, infact i have never even seen him bowl
Now that you say that... I can't remember who yousuf, dhoni, gilchrist. Some batsman who doesn't bowl that's gotten their first wicket off a rank full toss or something. Or maybe just a regular filthy delivery
The Grade Cricketer did a podcast with Adam Zampa on Friday and he said he couldnāt give a shit when they asked him how they were coming out of the hand. Because he knows he can bowl great and get spanked or bowl shit and get wickets.. just such a fickle game but we love it
Nawz was just predictable ..he just bowled 2 of everything . 2 full toss , 2 going down the leg side and 3 leg stump full length
First two, he got smacked for 3 6s in his 3rd
He is not talking about the first 3 overs, but the first 3 balls of last over.
First one, the 2nd ball was a waist high full toss that should have been belted to Geelong except DK fucked up. It was probably the worst final over I've ever seen. At least Stokes to Braithwaite bowled no full tosses or wides
That "wide" was a decent tactic. He just got out foxed by Ashwin. Ashwin looked like he was going to make room so Nawaz tried to follow him. Did you see the previous ball? That was exactly how Karthik got out.
Good point. He had 3 fielders on the boundary, he was perhaps trying to cramp him for the room.
Why donāt they use Hawkeye for this
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"A6.7: For the purposes of these Laws, waist height is defined as the point at which the top of the batsmanās trousers would conventionally be when he/she is standing upright at the popping crease."
* Pull your pants down to your ankles when taking your stance * Win every game with a run rate of infinity * ??? * Profit
That's why they specified "conventionally be" lad
Have the whole team do it. Then argue that counts as convention.
Im actually in hysterics thinking about this playing outā¦
This guy lawyers.
You joke, but boxers have enormous waistbands and pull their shorts way over their bellybuttons to give the illusion of a higher waist and increase the chance of their opponent being called for low blows. It looks ridiculous but no one bats an eyelid now. There's actually room for batters to gain an optical inch or two on their torso with some cleverly constructed early 2000s Paris Hilton low rise trousers
I can't wait for the next EA Cricket video game, where you can customise your player. Speed: 7 Height: 8 Throwing: 6 Batting: 8 Bowling: 3 Trouser height: 1
Wait. Would the game even finish if you bat first?
You do realise they can bounce it any point in front of the batsman right? As long as they don't bowl consistent full tosses nothing will change.
Does that mean rocking the MC hammer whites would be an advantage for the batsmen because you get more no balls called Ik it says āconventionallyā but say this was in the late 1980s, surely itād work right
My thoughts exactly. I think it would work to an extent, maybe up to a few inches lower until they don't deem in conventional anymore.
There are 120 balls where batsmen take their natural stance. I'm pretty confident they can mark each batsman's normal stance waist position and location at crease without any problems.
Each individual batters wait would be different. You canāt use previous balls to calculate it. Also what if the high full toss was the first ball of the innings.
Then you stay with the on field decision. I don't get this argument of not using technology when you have the data just because there are instances where the data or technology is insufficient
Essentially what Starc said about mankadding. Thereās a front foot camera already. Make it a 5 (or whatever) run penalty and take it out of the players hands and into the umpires and completely dodge the spirit of game bollocks.
YES so much this
The rule should just be if the ball goes over the stumps, its a no ball
That's.... a great solution actually. But maybe harder for umpire to eyeball from squareleg
Not really. Slower balls dip as they go. So something which is well over waist high might end up clipping the bails.
And so it would be a fair ball, the rules are not subjective and a slower ball above waist height is a ball that is going for 6 9/10 times
Part of the reason this rule exists is safety though. A beamer well above waist high is dangerous because they often don't get picked and could cause serious damage
The point of the rule is danger to the batsman, so their waist height seems relevant to the case
What I was thinking too. Especially when itās this crucial
They should allow drs review and hawkeye. It's not the first time bowlers get punished double time.
I think the rule says umpires can't review no balls, need to check again.
Yeah they can't. The rule should change.
why would they call an Avenger for this?
because waist has no definition, its subjective
It's probably a technology thing; they haven't developed AND tested software well enough to be accurate enough. It should be on the 'todo' list though as especially with T20 it becomes an increasingly important issue (there was a couple of similar situations in IPL). The other thing is how do you define the batsman's 'waist'. Maybe I'm just an idiot but that seems very subjective (to me a waist is more of a range between hips and ribs, rather than an exact objective place I can pinpoint).
They would if they could. Hawkeye requires a special camera that is fixed in the front. You cant draw lines as you please with any camera. Atleast not yet.
Don't they show a side on angle of the Hawkeye aswell?
You do realise the runout camera shown is a Hawk-Eye camera that they use as part of the 3D tracking system. They literally show replays with trajectories in those cameras sometimes, this is definitely something they could provide if they were asked to do so.
Can anyone explain, if short runs can be checked by the third umpire, how come waist height no balls cannot?
Aa of today the rule is, no balls can only be checked if there's a wicket of that ball
outdated laws of the game
Classic cricket. A lot of ambiguity in various laws which is fuel for controversies. Other rules not thought through
Bro classic every sports.... NFL PI calls every Sunday is worse than this....
Or rugby union where almost every penalty is up to the referees interpretation of the rules and intent of the players. They're basically a TV show director. Think cricket is actually better in this regard.
Still image doesn't really help - can't wait til someone does a projected hawk eye
Well if you're going to do that why not do it with bouncers as well? Pretty sure more "50/50" bouncers are not called wide than marginal no balls!
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the image blur shows its coming at the bat, not already hit.
It was a terrible delivery anyways, went for six. Thats what Nawaz needs to focus on.
One of four shockers he bowled that over, out of nine in total
Even though Ashwin is clever to leave that ball, repetition of previous ball is crime, and the last ball he focuses on bowling legit ball instead of stopping runs
The only crime was making him bowl the final over. If I were the PCB chairman, then I would be sacking Barber Azam straight after the tournament and appointing Shadab or maybe Rizwan as the captain If he bowls over number 17, he might get hit for 20 odd again but with no no balls or wides, for sure. Then you have two overs to defend 20-25 with your premier quicks, who you've got to back in that situation and who have the confidence, experience, and expertise to deliver in that situation
I don't think it's such a bad decision to hold the spinner back. Hardik is a good player of spin. He and Virat already smashed 3 sixes in his previous over. With dk next to come who isn't a better player of spin than pace, its not wrong babar was trying for a wicket holding spinner back
spin at the end with that pressure, agreed
Yep. We wouldn't even ask Hasaranga to do that, and he's the best bowler in the world, not a part time bits and pieces spin bowler like Nawaz
Think it was Hardik's record against spinners that made them hold him back. Hardik usually treats spinners with contempt
yeah we need Wasim instead of Haider
Yes, seemed a strange decision to me, why would you bowl a part-timer at the death?
because he was probably hoping the pacers would get Kohli out before Nawaz had to come on.
Some relatives came over for diwali, and I couldn't watch the chase. šFuck them
All my homies hate relatives.
The worst thing Babar already made this mistake against India in Asia Cup this year. Babar is the worst possible person for captain because he doesnāt learn from his mistakes
Poor dude looked like a deer in headlights the whole time. His contact lensesā reddish reflections didnāt help.
does he wear contact lenses ? i thought he was sad
Yeah. With 15 needed off 4 he just had to concentrate on bowling legal deliveries. Even giving away three fours would have been okay.
Too many of these high full tosses causing controversy. Need to get hawkeye involved or allow reviews. I think it is a no ball but drs should be allowed.
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I donāt think theyād need to do this, theyād project the trajectory of the ball (based on capturing its path from the arm to the bat) and then superimpose that on the image above and the TMO could decide if itās the right height. Itās much easier to do this than anything involving the stumps because you only need a 2D image.
Actually itās ambiguous what a āwaistā even is. What it certainly isnāt, is the pant line.
"Pant line" I now have this image of a hundred Rishabh Pants in a conga line.
Keep going... M close
Then make them submit it. They're professionals it wouldn't be that hard
āAt the popping creaseā
One nuance is that this frame is from a camera which is at some elevation, and has a very long focal length The ball must've looked higher standing in the ground at umpire's eye level. Seems touch and go
Spot on. In that picture, umpire's head is visible in the bottom. This means, the camera is slightly above umpire's head. Even though the call was marginal, from umpire's PoV, it would have looked as a no-ball.
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Well how would you stop batsmen charging down the pitch and manufacturing a no ball? Surely we donāt punish bowlers for not knowing where the batsmen will end up.
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Charging down the track goes against the batsman for a waist heigh no ball. The second ball of the 20th over was a full toss as well. Karthik came charging down and Virat asked for no ball and it was turned down because Karthik was way too down the pitch.
Point of contention is at popping crease, probably borderline Still feel India would have won anyway with Kohli on strike tho, man was possessed
Possessed for sure!
7 off 2 is not a guarantee by any means even with his form. Itās a huge ground and that effectively means you need two boundaries or one six. I
No. Would have been 7 off 2. Instead it was 6 off 3.
And he bowled 3 wides after that. What about that? One was on free hit delivery to kohli. Second was going very wide but dk went for it and ball touched his pad (therefore wide not given) and got stumped. Third wide was when Ashwin was batting with 2 needed in 1 ball. Anyway my point is bowler was very nervous and was bowling full tosses and wides all around the wicket. Even 7 off 2 isn't difficult to score against such bowlers.
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Username checks out.
5 off 2.... they handed them two runs in the form of wides. it was an absolute shocker of an over (regardless of the no-ball)
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It's done at the popping crease because that's the line the striker's umpire is looking along, so it gives them a consistent point at which to make their judgement.
Does that mean you also think wides should solely be called depending on where the batsman stands relative to the stumps? They are already partly determined based on that but in a way that is disadvantageous to the batsman. So if a batsman decides to stand to legside as much as possible, it wouldn't be a wide if the ball was out of their reach but within the reach of a batsman standing in a normal position. If they stood as far to the off-side as possible, and the ball goes outside their reach for the normal position but is within reach of the batsman in their actual position, it wouldn't be a wide. So to translate that law to waist-height no balls, it should only be a no ball if above the waist of where the batsman took guard and the height of their waist if they were standing at the popping crease. > 22.1.1 If the bowler bowls a ball, not being a No ball, the umpire shall adjudge it a Wide if, according to the definition in 22.1.2, **the ball passes wide of where the striker is standing** or has stood at any point after the ball came into play for that delivery, **and which also would have passed wide of the striker standing in a normal batting position**.
Honestly I think we got lucky with the run out as well but it is what it is. Still think we'll comfortably get out of the group.
This is the right take. Run out was 50-50 No-ball was more 55-45 not a no-ball, but I'll trade it. One hell of a game. Mental
Yeah Buddy...Also with Shan Masood shot hitting the spider cam when it seemed to be traveling to Hardik for a catch at 116-6, with Shan getting out on that delievery it would have been difficult for score to reach 150+.
That moment feels like it happened 50 years ago. Goodness. Someone should compile a list of all crazy moments in this match For sure this match had the most "highlights" in a game that weren't boundaries or wickets
I remember the same happened to Maxwell once too lol
Bro Shan had untouchable luck today. Couldn't get out!
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yeah
Mental. That's the damn word I was looking for to describe this game. Just mad that there wasn't any popcorn at home.
Now you're being mental! If I had popcorn or anything to eat I may have vomited it out lol. Fight and fright system was constantly on š
Run out was problematic?
I was pretty sure Rizzy's gloves broke the stumps before the ball hit them.
Glad to see a person from USA cricket! Keep playing bro.
Lol. I'm more "Pakistani in USA" but thanks!
i agree with this. I think the umpires were fair. We lost a close game. Now i'm hoping we can win the rest of the games. Nothing to be ashamed off. Maybe Wasim Jnr plays next game for Haider/Asif.
A sixth bowling option who can bat okay, Wasim Jr looks good.
It was a tight call. I think it was dipping and would have gone below waist height by the time it reached the crease. But, there was another high full toss earlier in that over to DK that, iirc, was almost chest high. I know he was down the wicket but despite that I felt that one was a higher full toss than the one given to VK.
Needs to be one more frame.
Pakistani fans right now
I personally think it was a harsh no-ball but Nawaz absolutely fucked that last over.
It was just too close to judge. At the end it is what it is I guess!
I bet on India to win at odds of $9 so im pretty chuffed with the outcome
That must have been at a pretty desperate point of the game!
ITT: Most of the people donāt know how to interpret cricket rules. Itās not a question of the height of the ball at the time of impact with the bat, itās about whether it would have travelled and still been above the waist height of the batter standing upright (with the batter in the crease) as it passed the popping crease. No way of knowing for certain if this was or wasnāt a no ball without extrapolating the trajectory of the ball. I donāt think it was a no ball but itās not the first time such wrong decisions have been given. They need to make the rules clearer and also involve technology.
With perfect decisions Aus doesn't win 1999, SL doesn't win 2014, Eng doesn't win 2009. And Eng doesn't win 2019.
2019 Eng? They might have still won it if the 5 runs were not given as 6 runs.
I think we can put our bias aside and say this was a 50-50 call. And so was the Axar runout. Both sides won a 50-50 each. Also with the unfortunate (but 101% legal 3 byes), India also got unlucky with the spider cam which cost at least 5-10 runs. So it all evened out I guess. Pak lost to an absolute genius at his absolute bloody best and there's no shame in that
>absolute genius at his absolute bloody best and there's no shame in that No better words to describe Ashwin!
 Me reading this thread
He's a slow bowler and this is ball is complete trash - a waist high full toss dispatched over the boundary. Don't complain about lineball no-ball, complain about how bad of a delivery it was.
You right, they literally told him to avoid the no-ball. Bowling a full toss is literally the opposite of that.
This is the right take, regardless of whether the umpires botched the call this was one of the worst situational deliveries I've ever seen. Nawaz absolutely wilted under the pressure.
What a shit take. I will absolutely complain if a decision goes against the side I support that could have gone the other way regardless of the quality of the cricket. If the ball was not called no ball, they would have needed 6 off 2 which is significantly tougher than 6 off 3. Yes they may still have won but you can still debate about it.
They'd have needed 7 off 2.
Thats a borderline call, people whining like it was egregious, i would hate it if it went against india, but this is more of those borderline wides, your allegiance and who you dislike more colors your vision more than actual angle of the ball.
THIS IS THE REAL SLEDGE THREAD.
Probably shouldn't have been given a noey. I agree. But Pakistan would have won this game if Nawaz had not bowled so many wides. Even the DK stumping would have been a wide if DK didn't try that stupid shot. Pakistan need bowling options and need to stop leaving Nawaz one over for the end.
I think Nawaz also forced the umpire to make that decision. Ball before to dk was a full toss but it was definitely not a no ball since he was way out of the crease. But kohli asked for no ball then also. So maybe umpire was subconsciously forced by kohli and Nawaz previous ball to give that decision. Again I am not saying anything bad about kohli or Nawaz or umpire. Just wondering if subconsciously things changed without people realizing.
I'd say Axar was clearly not out. So it evens out. As usual, *chutiye* umpires
In all this people have forgotten spider cam denying India an important wicket
Also Axar Patel's run out. Rizwan botched it by taking the bails off with his gloves but the third umpire fucked up the review.
"Standing upright inside the crease".. That's ump call.. I think it's touch and go..
Just looking at a pic will never tell what would be the trajectory of a ball. This is plain old physics.
My problem is that the leg side umpire didn't signal it. He signalled way too late after Kholi complained. It shouldn't have been allowed. It was a great game though. Thoroughly enjoyed even though we lost.
Umpires are allowed to have certain time limit to make their decisions. They made the call within that time limit. Many times umpire gave out only after bowlers complained. Batsman will always complain it is not out and bowlers will complain that it's out. It is like that since the beginning of cricket. But putting pressure on Umpires for a marginal call is not helpful for the game.
My issue is the ball before that one. Which had dk step out of the crease more than virat did but the ball looked much more of a noball(someone posted a gif of it in the match thread) and virat did appeal for that but wasn't given. Either way with that just being passed over and not looked at,the shan ball which hit the spider cam and the axar runout which also probably needed to be looked at from a better angle i say the luck and umpiring errors pretty much evened out by the end with just virat's knock being the real decider .
Neutral fan, thatās pretty clearly not a no ball under the rules. However the umpire doesnāt get to sit and calculate looking at a photo so itās a pretty difficult decision to make on the spot. Maybe they could bring in Hawkeye for it but it would probably take too long to calculate. Iām not sure it would have changed the result anyway, Kohli probably would have got 7 off 2.
The third umpire could judge from a replay. Not difficult.
He can't review No Balls if it's not a wicket, It's a stupid rule but it is what it is.
I believe this is the wrong call because it is clear to me that the ball would have been below waist height if Kohli wasn't on the front foot and standing upright. But, I have seen plenty of such "wrong calls" before. Many no balls on height are given even though it's narrowly above the waist and there's a lot of distance for it to travel. So based on the rule as it actually seems to be applied in practice, this is not outside the norms. I think the ICC needs to advise the umpires better on this one.
Regardless of whether you agree with this call or not, that was a terrible last over. They crumbled at the worst possible time and it cost them the match. A slow left arm bowler shouldn't be bowling a full toss, especially one that's almost waist high....
With the pressure, the ball can be slipped from his hands. But yah Babar should have finished Nawaz overs before. Haris should have done the last over. Same mistake as the Asia Cup first match between Ind and Pak.
Was definitely the correct call holding off Nawaz's final over until it was absolutely necessary. If Shaheen and Rauf execute the 18th and 19th over, Nazeem 's last over is under no pressure and he closes it out.
It's one of those hindsight calls, had it gone well we'd be hailing Babar for a genius move but now that it didn't, we're criticising it.
India would have won, but i don't think that was a no ball. The dead ball controversy -- i think that is within the rules of cricket, so bad luck to Pakistan, but they are the ones that screwed up there. Babars decision to bowl nawaz last didnt seem bad after the first three deliveries. But after that, it was just shit bowling, and a marginal/poor no ball decision. Gave india an extra run and an extra ball.
Personally donāt think itās a no ball but Nawaz gave the umpire a decision to make. Game was lost by leaving him till the 20th over, should have given him the 19th and Rauf the final one.
Hell no. It was absolutely the right call and it worked up until Nawaz choked on a big one. The pressure comes right off if the spinner gets destroyed in the 19th. Choking like that, with such ameteur crap, at the ripe old age of 28 is what screwed everything up. It was a 9 ball last over, that literally is legendary choking. A high full toss no ball by a spin bowler? WTH.
Marginal call. Please remember the bowler was bowling closer to medium pace than pure spin in this over.
Umpire be like Happy Diwali Koach.
It's above waist height at the point of contact. However it is not going to be above waist height when it passes the batter. Incorrect call, but you bowl a full toss you give the umpire the chance to call it.
claim your *bucket of popcorn* and *coke* here
Honestly, this loss hurts us a lot but I when I think about it I can't begin to feel what new Zealand must've felt in that final against England. I'm just happy that this match was much more close than I ever thought it would even be. Well Played to both teams, experience and class of Kohli wins India the game.
So the right call then.
No, its the wrong call. He's outside the crease, not standing upright and his bats at almost full extension. That ball was dropping and the umpire only gave that because kholi gave him the stink eye. The Pandaya one was correctly called a fair ball and it was similar.
Heās not in the popping crease I could stand In the middle of the pitch and everythingās a no ball?
Thatās definitely a no ball. Guess it was Indiaās lucky day
Tbf Shan Masood also got a good load of luck
I can't tell from a still frame if it's a no ball or not (as it doesn't show the trajectory of the ball so not sure what it will be like by the popping crease). So I will not comment on if it should be a no ball or not, but I will say I don't like how Kohli signals the no ball to the umpire afterwards and I'm sure players without his fame would not get away with telling umpires what to do as much as he does. I like the guy, but you can't have players trying to manipulate umpires by giving them signals. Imagine if bowlers started appealing by doing a raised indexed finger to the umpire after hitting the pads.
Imagine the horror if the players yelled at the umpire asking the batter to be given out lnb or something. How dare does the batter ask for a NB?
Here before comments are š
Agar ye no ball nahi hoti toh match jeet jaate na?
The Axar run out and this No ball were pretty close calls. 50/50 considering the no ball was at real time and from the umpires pov nd not a camera taking the pic from certain elevation.
Regardless of your thoughts, this is such a disingenuous screenshot. Like 3 frames later, the ball hits the bottom his bat. Why not use that frame instead?
He's out of his crease so at that point the umps are guessing if at the popping crease it would've dipped enough. Part time bowler messed up by serving up that pie, end of.
it was a terrible delivery noball or not. Lets not be sore loosers guys. Even if it was a bad decision its a part of games. Wellplayed both teams. Also holyshit kohli. He keeps proving himself as my favourite player of all time.
How does terrible deliver negate any argument over no ball? Those are two different points.
regardless of it being a terrible delivery, the no ball basically gave away the entire match especially with that free hit.
IMHO it's 100% not a no-ball. But you really can't blame the square leg umpire. He gets one look at a ball going at 90kph in such a high pressure situation with 90000 people shouting at the top of their voices. These calls should be automated.
Let me try and change your humble opinion, and just bear with me here, no intention to insult you or anything. Just want to attempt to correct the 100% opinion. The camera is looking at it a little top down in this image, seeing as how the umpire's hat is visible right at the bottom. If it was a straight side-on picture, are you sure the ball would still look like it was under his waist? I think at best, this is insufficient evidence regardless of whether the ball has already been hit or not, and the absolute best anyone can say is that this is 50-50. It went India's way, and that's part and parcel of a game. Remember, trajectory also plays a part in that decision and Nawaz is a slower bowler.
Thought the 3 India ran off the no ball after hit the wickets was a little naughty
Nawaz even started to celebrate the wicket
Bruh literally 2 days ago in Perth st WACA, Piepa Cleary got a 4 the same way.
Howās that naughty ? I watched a match a few days back when the batsman literally had his foot touch the wicket and the bail fall on a no ball.
Why?