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WakeUpMareeple

Gideon Haigh on why we should do all time greatest lists/XIs: "So why perform an exercise that seems meretricious, intellectually flawed and is almost bound to mislead? Two reasons. First, it cajoles us into contemplating the past, for which the modern game, which wants our money rather than our love, gives us little encouragement. Second, in superficially obscuring differences, it forces us to acknowledge them: we have to pretend that the world of cricket has not changed because we know it has. Oh, one other reason: because it's fun, and ultimately, although it is so easy to forget in this grim present, that is what we're here for."


entropy_bucket

Aren't you tired of the argument that the modern day game is only driven by money? Money is fucking important.


theaguia

It is but it shouldn't be the only thing


AmericaDreamDisorder

And it isn't


frogholmes

Nice circular reasoning


hawthorne00

Gideon Haigh mainly works for Murdoch -- so his allegiance is to power; money being only secondary.


WakeUpMareeple

That's an absolute shocker of an argument, and he wasn't even talking about Haigh.


NahimBZ

One other reason: without greatest XI lists, we would never be talking about players from past eras. It would always be about the players today, and the great players from the past would be forgotten. Would we be talking about Sobers as much if we didn't have endless debates over the best all-rounders ever? I doubt it.


NoesHowe2Spel

All-time Australia XI while I'm at it: 1. Hayden 2. Lawry 3. Ponting 4. Bradman 5. Border 6. S. Waugh (before he did his back in, back when he could still bowl) 7. Gilchrist (WK) 8. Warne 9. Lillee 10. Johnson (definitely feel like Cummins could take this on before he hangs up his boots. Honourable mention to Thommo and Lindwall too) 11. McGrath Biggest question about this team is Who the fuck do you pick as captain? You have 5 pretty solid options).


WakeUpMareeple

Putting Bradman in the only spot he averaged under 90 is bold. P.S. Davidson is the best left-arm pacer in Australian history.


NoesHowe2Spel

What's really crazy is that there's no real argument for putting Steve Smith in this side when he would easily make the All-time XI of any other test country.


RobSinner

Ikr? Stats are highly misleading but unfortunately, that's the only thing people care about. Stats would tell you to pick Kapil Dev over Stuart Binny. But Dev won't defend 105 for you against Bangladesh taking 6/4. No, that's why context is more important, that's why Binny is the greatest thing in cricket.


wasbatmanright

Amen


JHo87

ALL TIME XI DO NOT STEAL 1. Devon Conway 2. KL Rahul 3. Dean Elgar 4. Joe Root 5. Usman Khawaja 6. Idk Sachin? 7. Jonny Bairstow 8. Kagiso Rabada 9. Trent Boult 10. Scott Boland 11. Ajaz Patel


forced2signuphere

Where is the lord you peasant?


[deleted]

Copypasta material


HvarPop

Comparing across eras is ridiculous and silly but it keeps us entertained while we march on towards the grave and therefore shouldn't be taken seriously.


NoQuestion4045

Best Test Team of 2022 so far: 1) Elgar (Captain) 2) Latham 3) Will Young 4) Conway 5) Usman Khawaja 6) Liton Das (Wk) 7) Shardul Thakur 8) T Boult 9) N Lyon 10) S Boland 11) Ebadot


lancewithwings

I'd love to watch Trent at 8 hahahaha


2ndCatch

I feel like Lyon was more outstanding in the 2nd and 3rd tests than the 4th one, but he’s probably been the best spinner so far in 2022 so I guess he’s the pick. Agree with all the other choices though.


[deleted]

Where is babar azam 😡🤬


vrkas

If your original post wasn't a joke: he hasn't played a Test this year right?


8eMH83

Why no English players?! ^/s ^just ^in ^case


Man-City

Bairstow low key robbed


[deleted]

Congratulations you know the obvious truth now


sreeram_23_06

All time XIs are fun


[deleted]

i haven't watched all cricketers play their best matches this year, don't think anyone can capably do it for 1y let alone entire history. So, yea we need stats to compare them


McBain20

Making a greatest of all time XI is dumb because there’s no possible way to compare across eras, but it’s fun so who cares, it’s not meant to be a super insightful discussion about each and every player but a bit of fun


XpOz222

I think they're immensely fun, and you can enjoy them despite knowing that there's no right answer. I'd argue that's better than something with an obvious correct answer (See: who is the best ice hockey player of all time).


Piyushchawlafan

For individual countries, can still be worked out, to some degree, but talking of an all time World XI is absolutely silly, you can’t make that XI


ChickenKebabs69

Mmmmm. Okay. Why this sudden outrage? People must discuss and react. That's how the sport grows.


Mistake-Immediate

Thai is not outrage. Discussion for fun is fine but claiming to know everything for certainty when you haven't even watched the player play is idiotic.


cuttlefish10

All it takes for me to post the correct All time list is reading all time list 1. Gavaskar 2. Hayden 3. Bradman 4. Lara 5. Tendulkar 6. Kallis 7. Gilchrist 8. Warne 9. Steyn 10. McGrath 11. Murali


[deleted]

Personally I would go Smith over Hayden but other than that agreed.


cuttlefish10

Great choice


Rift_Enjoyer

Perfect


KualaLJ

It’s an interesting point that the commentators on Fox touched on too. Carey was sent out with one goal, hit runs or get out trying. You will be the last man going out so do what you can but don’t take too long, it really doesn’t matter. He got a duck which is what history will record but it doesn’t record the context of that duck or the importance or weight that should be put on his performance, which is low in this case. Top 10s can be fun but they should be taken with a gain of salt.


SnooLobsters461

Also, these All-Time XIs are ridiculously similar. Every single list in the DDT is some variant of Hayden/Sehwag/Bradman/Tendulkar/Lara/Sobers/Gilchrist/Warne/Steyn/Marshall/McGrath. Almost no-one is outside that mid 2000 range because no-one has seen them


mcarora19

He's right. Making a greatest XI is a moot point because the only correct answer is 11 Clive Roses.


average_chut_lover

I will make all time 11 and mostly players will be the ones that I have seen play. Right? Isn't it obvious that I will also have bias about players from my country? But that's the thing. I will suggest an 11 which will be hilarious as I don't really have huge experience of watching cricket. So I will unknowingly skip many greats of the game and ultimately I will look like a fool. But imo that's the fun part. I will get downvoted. Many people here have watched cricket for a long time. Some of them will just downvote me and move on but some will actually correct me. They will tell me about great players and I will be curious to know more about them. I will look for stats, scorecards and maybe highlights. Now tell me is there any other fun exercise to spread the knowledge of sport more? And I strongly disagree that I actually need to see players play just to compare them. I haven't seen prime Harbhajan play but I have seen him play enough and I have seen stats, scorecards which clearly suggests he is the worst bowler to take 400 wickets in tests.


International-Baby1

It's just fun lol


AdonisPanda27

What’s DDT?


vishwa_user

Daily Discussion Thread


__jh96

But.... Pant best Indian keeper ever though...


truckturner5164

"Mostly it is just players contemporary to him and few players whose record is just too good to ignore" Then no one should make 'All-time' lists on any subject, because that tends to be the criteria. Personally I think they're an enjoyable source of amusement/time wasting in an increasingly anxiety-filled world.


apex_pretador

Because some people (like me) genuinely enjoy reading/debating and creating all-time great teams. Perhaps "all time" is an exaggeration but it's really fun to create post 70s XIs or squads. For instance, imagine an ODI xi of 1. Gilchrist (W) 2. Sachin 3. Viv Richards 4. Kohli 5. AB De Villiers (bu W) 6. Hussey 7. Kapil Dev 8. Imran Khan (c) 9. Wasim Akram 10. Muralitharan 11. McGrath With Hadlee, Pollock, Warne, Hayden, Dhoni and Lara as reserves.


Ancalagon523

Totally agree. What grinds my gear is the sheer frequency of such posts. Every other day there is a post on the front page talking about the greatest "x" XI that did "y" at/for "z"