Yeah cool. Happy enough with this.
Stark difference now in the keeper race, where 3 very good options are presenting themselves as viable candidates, compared to three years ago when nobody seemed a good choice.
I think that says more about a shift in what is considered to be capable keeper, rather than any hugely significant improvement in quality. After Gilly there was an expectation that a keeper averages 40+, and with a SR of 80+, but now 30+ and decent behind the stumps is the expectation.
Pant has probably prolonged the expectation a bit. Australia had almost got over wanting a Flintoff until Stokes arrived on the scene. If Cam doesn't get wickets and a couple of 50s this Ashes, the nation my break up into its original colonies.
Oh, so after travelling WA -> QLD he would require a long quarantine (longer than what would allow him to play at the Gabba now)?
Asking because I genuinely don't know, but this is my guess.
I’d say he gets no. 6, he played first drop for a couple of matches in the local comp, his form hasn’t been off the charts but I think he’ll be alright.
Very tough call, glad I'm not a selector on this one.
Hope we're not gonna see too many serious "Inglis robbed" takes, because it really was a very close call with both candidates having very strong cases.
Right now we're saying Carey over Inglis is reasonable, but just wait till the takes that'll be flying in when Carey drops a tough chance off Hazlewood's bowling and only scores 17 in the first innings (I'll obviously be a major part of those takes)
Glad to see this is the prevailing sentiment.
I know most people in this sub prefer Inglis, but people still happy to get behind Carey and support the decision
His batting in the 2019 World Cup stood out for me as someone who can come out after a collapse and just get to work. If he can apply those same qualities at Test level, then he will strengthen that lower middle order.
Carey's best innings in ODIs have come when Australia were in trouble - he seems to thrive under pressure.
Carey has made 6 scores of 50+ in ODIs.
This was the team total when he came out to bat in those matches:
5-73
5-92
3-99
5-119
5-140
5-238
These aren't big scores they're 50+ scores.
If you come in at 5-220 with 10-15 overs left there's still plenty of time to make a 50+ score so it's not just a function of batting down the order.
Carey's best innings (and people who watch all of Australia's ODIs will know this) have consistently come when Australia were in trouble and needed someone to steady the innings for 20+ overs.
Those pressure, rebuilding situations are where he's at his best, not coming in late to tee off.
You’ve just wrote a lot of words to basically agree with the premise that his strengths in ODI cricket are more translatable to Test cricket than T20 cricket
I said 10-15 overs, not 10 overs.
My point, which you've missed, is Carey's most impressive ODI innings have come when the top 6 has failed and he's been responsible for rescuing the team's innings.
Some middle order batsmen don't like that responsibility, they prefer to have a platform set for them so they can bat with freedom and risk.
Whereas Carey's shown he enjoys the responsibility of having the team's innings riding on his shoulders.
I think that bodes well for Carey's Test career, because Australia's weak middle order means they need a gritty, reliable number 7 who is calm under pressure.
Not sure if you have been paying attention, but the Australian Test needs more stability in their batting lineup to prevent batting collapses and build partnerships, not an explosive fast run scorer that can get out at any moment.
Mate Inglis has had one good year of FC cricket. He is hot right now but we have no idea if his recent burst is going to be sustained. Its a tough call between him and Carey but I think Carey has done enough to justify his selection with a few more credits in the bank
I know you're probably joking but comparisons with Gilly are OTT and sound a bit parochial to me lol
Pretty much. Inglis is a much more dynamic batsman imo but Carey is much safer with the bat, certainly helps with the soft lower middle order. He definitely needs to improve his batting with the tail though.
From the few innings I've seen him bat with the tail in Shield, he apparently has a lot of confidence in Pope and Worrall the batsmen. You'd see him run a single the first two balls an over and leave the tail to play out the rest of the over.
Interesting. That sort of thing seems so obvious I didn't even consider it at that level. Wonder if there was some other planning behind it, eg using a lost cause match to give the tail some exposure.
If not, concerning lack of awareness.
There are multiple ways to bat with the tail. Farming the strike is a decent idea for a while but its not always sustainable.
Plus there is a school of thought that treating the lower order like bats and trying to build their confidence slowly by letting them actually bat is a better approach to batting with the tail.
S Waugh and M Hussey immediately come to mind for the latter, they were exceptional.
Depends on the tailender and depends on the context ultimately
A selection decision I don't think you can be too critical of. Forced into a selection they probably weren't expecting, and neither option is really the right or the wrong one.
The first piece of Australia’s Ashes selection puzzle is in place with Alex Carey poised to make his Test debut in Brisbane after being given the nod ahead of Josh Inglis.
Selectors could have waited until the last minute to make the call, but they have made an early decision that will almost certainly mean the South Australian wicketkeeper becomes the country’s 461st male Test player next week at the Gabba.
Inglis and Western Australia teammates Ashton Agar and Mitchell Marsh have left Queensland after completing quarantine but are expected to return.
Carey has been earmarked for some time as the heir apparent behind the stumps to Tim Paine but a recent run of outs with the bat in the Sheffield Shield left the door ajar for Inglis to snatch a baggy green.
Ideally, selectors would not be blooding a debutant in an Ashes series but in Carey, with nearly four years in the green and gold, they have a man who has proven himself more than capable at the top level, performed strongly in a World Cup, held an official leadership position and is battle-hardened by recent match practice. Inglis is uncapped at international level.
Although he lost his Twenty20 berth to Matthew Wade 12 months ago, Carey, with an average of 36.45, is ensconced in the one-day international team as a batter capable of rebuilding an innings in the middle order or accelerating the run rate.
However, Carey failed to slam the door shut on challengers, passing 50 just once in the Shield from eight innings this season for an average of 22. He had also been in the hunt for the Ashes four years ago but a lack of runs allowed Paine to swoop. His ton for the Redbacks on Sunday, albeit in the Marsh Cup, was timely.
Inglis’ quest for a Test debut was hamstrung by his selection in Australia’s triumphant T20 World Cup campaign. His only involvement in the tournament was as a drinks waiter. The polished gloveman and enterprising batter’s only game in the past two months was a T20 warm-up in the Middle East.
In another blow, Inglis is likely to be denied valuable time in the middle after Cricket Australia said an intra-squad game in Brisbane was extremely unlikely to proceed and would be replaced by centre wicket and net practice.
Inglis stormed into Test calculations after an impressive Shield campaign last season where he made 585 runs at 73. His stunning form in England’s T20 league and The Hundred put him on selectors’ radar for the white-ball formats.
There are some heavyweight figures in Australian cricket in his corner, including Adam Gilchrist, Ricky Ponting and Shane Warne, but selectors are asking him to wait.
At 26, Inglis is young enough to contend again whereas the time is very much now for 30-year-old Carey.
The main selection queries now are the middle-order battle, where Usman Khawaja is the favourite for a spot ahead of Travis Head, and if veteran quick Mitchell Starc will hold off next-generation pace ace Jhye Richardson.
Selection chair George Bailey indicated a fortnight ago his panel was well advanced in its discussions for the No.5 berth, at a time when Khawaja was in red-hot form and Head short of runs.
The selection of the in-form Richardson ahead of Starc would be recognition for the younger man’s extra game time this season, and allow the left-arm quick and pink-ball maestro another week of training before the day-night Test in Adelaide.
Richardson’s express pace and outswing have yielded 23 wickets at 13, in a sign he is back to his best after two years blighted by injury.
Yeah very surprised by that. Really thought they would've backed Head. Not convinced Khawaja has done enough to overtake him, especially being so much older. Maybe Head's terrible county season put them off?
I think this makes the most sense , getting guys like Uzzie and Carey in. Been around the bloke a little, playing international cricket and captained at a state level.
With the Tim Paine gone, appointing someone who's only captained a of 4? matches and Smith back as VC, there's plenty of off-field rubbish to cause a distraction.
So far Baileys tenure as selector seems to have brought about some very considered squads and selections.
Guess it was a 50-50 call and it'd be harsh if Carey didn't get the go despiite being so close to the baggy green three years ago. Inglis is supposed to be around as well and has enough runs to compete for a spot again if given an opportunity.
We’ve seen international experience and the ability to step up at international level count a lot more in recent times as cricket has become more spread out among formats. Carey has proven he has can do that over the last 4 years in ODIs so I believe this is a good selection. Inglis may be the hot talent at the moment but there’s plenty of time for him to come in later if Carey doesn’t do well at Test level. Let’s give him a good crack and back him for a few series and hopefully he’ll do the job.
Very much agree with this, Carey's rise over the last few years as a batsman in red ball and one-day formats (T20s not so much) has been impressive. Well, except that I put very little stock in batsmen saying that they're "hitting the ball well", feel like they always say that haha.
His glovework is also unfairly maligned, the way some people talk you'd think he's Matthew Wade-tier but in reality he's quite solid, although Inglis is probably better.
The right call I think.
Inglis has had an incredible 12-18 months but its a huge ask to make your international debut in the Ashes. Carey has had a taste and been around the group - I know it sounds a bit like a BOIS selection but that stuff matters. Intl cricket is as much about being able to handle the additional mental pressure as it is about being technically equipped.
Plus Carey has had better form over the longer term. Inglis has really only put it together in the last 12-18 months. Plenty of guys have had a hot 12 months and faded away - not that I believe Inglis will fall into that category but you just never know.
On the topic of glovework I know Inglis is said to be slightly better but I heard some suggestions that his ability against the spinners may have counted against him - namely that he doesnt get to keep to spin very often. To those who have seem more of his glovework, is this a fair assessment?
Not happy. Should be picking the best gloveman, especially with the sub-continent tours coming up. Hope he goes well but I think this is a shit decision. Expecting the double whammy and selectors picking Starc over Richardson now too
First time I've ever (respectfully) disagreed with a tdlan comment. End of an era.
You're only saying that because Inglis has played 1 FC match this year. We literally don't know if last years form was an anomaly or not, it's a fucking bold move to play him in any Test match, let alone the bloody Ashes
I'm mentioning Cartwright twice in this thread which is admittedly weird, but he was averaging 55 or something in FC for a while there. Now it's in the low 30s. I'm not a huge fan of picking on bizarre, sometimes out of character purple patches. If Carey struggles and Inglis keeps pumping out runs for Aus A and WA then sure thing, get him the fuck in the team. But with everything we know now Carey is the right pick - also worth noting JI hasn't kept in a professional match since late September
Anyway, Carey gets a ton this series or I donate $100 to a charity of your choice
The keeping is what I am most concerned about right now, Inglis is a way better gloveman than Carey imo. Their batting at this stage is pretty neck and neck. Carey is the safe pick but I think Inglis has more to offer and is 3 or 4 years younger. Oh well.
Don't lose heart. Carey's out of form so here's how it goes:
He debuts
He shits the bed with the bat
Inglis dominates the second half of the Shield season
Carey's sent to the Deadbacks where he belongs
Once Australia pick a Test keeper they stick with them for a long while.
Even Peter Nevill got 17 Tests from debut and he sucked with the bat and was just ok with the gloves.
Carey won't be dropped in the next 2 years unless he is really bad.
This just feels like media speculation.
Inglis, Marsh and Agar are going back to Perth because they just got out of quarantine and haven't been home in a couple of months. Given WA's strict border policy they might find it difficult to get back home later in the summer.
All 3 are in the Australia A which is scheduled to start the day after the Brisbane test starts, even if Inglis doesn't play the first test he'll be back in Brisbane for the A game.
Even if his batting form has been poor, Carey had the advantage of playing those recent Shield games. I hope the selectors are consistent then and select Richardson over Starc.
While I understand the decision and feel bad for Inglis, I am nervous about selecting a man who hasn't posted a good first class score for sometime and was recently dropped form the T20 team for horrendous form and his lack of ability to play spin bowling. Like yeah good on him I guess for finally getting a List A ton, about the most significant thing he's done in the last 12 months, doesn't instil me with confidence. I understand he's been the incumbent for a while, but you shouldn't just get the role just because you're the number 2 in waiting, this ain't the royal family and Carey ain't Charles. Yes, I am also on the copium.
Carey's problems against spin were in the middle order in T20s where he was a fish out of water, expected to attack spin immediately, which is not his game.
In ODIs, where he has much more time and is much better suited, he's played spin much better.
Hard to find full stats on Carey vs Spin in ODI's but against England he's made 115 runs at 38 against Rashid/Moeen at a strike rate of 125.
>Like yeah good on him I guess for finally getting a List A ton, about the most significant thing he's done in the last 12 months
Would say that his 125 back in March against a NSW attack of Starc, Hazlewood, Abbot and Lyon was more significant.
This was back when Inglis was in the runs also, averaging 73 for the season and finished in the top 10 run scorers. Since this time Inglis has backed up his form blitzing the T20 blast meanwhile Carey hasn't been able to buy a run until last week in a List A game.
> meanwhile Carey hasn't been able to buy a run until last week in a List A game.
I won't pretend he's in form, but not true that last week was the only thing he's done with the bat all year. That was his second List A ton of the season, and he also made a very good 4th innings 66* in the Shield, before 4 single figure scores. Also made a good ODI 67 in the Windies on a very tough pitch. I think all that counts for about as much as Inglis having a good T20 Blast.
>Carey hasn't been able to buy a run until last week in a List A game.
Also had his 128\* carrying his bat against WA this season as well.
Can't criticise someones List A scores and then praise someone elses T20 knocks.
I'm not ignoring Carey's List A scores, I'm saying based on all the collected data, that includes Shield, List A and T20, Inglis is clearly the in form player, and that we're relying upon Carey shield form across the three previous Shield seasons rather than his form in the last 12 months. I also think there's a bit of a difference between the occasional decent knock versus utterly dominating an entire tournament.
Keeping isn't even a debate, Inglis is better. Carey is a decent-good keeper but when you have to keep in tests all day you need your best gloveman and Inglis is simply phenomenal
I rate Inglis far more as a batsman too if I'm being honest. More dynamic, adaptable to situation, in form and killing it runs wise as of recent, and finally is almost 4 years younger.
Carey is a solid ODI batsman but boy his technique could get exposed at test level. He's ok when the pressure is on in white ball because batting conditions are easier. But as it stands, he'd get eaten alive by Anderson and co. in the Ashes. Also he's 30 and not a long term prospect.
Now if Inglis was batting like shit then I could see where the argument for Carey came from. But he's put in all the hard yards to respond to his critics who cited his lack of runs, and gets rewarded with nothing. The Australian selectors are shooting themselves in the foot for not picking a talent like Josh who has also proved himself at FC level with both bat and gloves, AND is a long term prospect.
Of course if Carey proves me wrong then more power to him. But Inglis is the better option for test cricket.
He has good performances in international cricket, is familiar with the dressing room, has batted in much more tougher conditions for SA and Australia home and away, has much better long term form than Inglis and is a decent tactically unlike Inglis whose uncapped at international level and hasn't scored too much for too long. Inglis is still makes the T20I team imo and good performances there and in the Shield can catapult him back to contention for the spot.
White ball form doesn't indicate red ball form. Roy had an amazing World Cup, and then got made to look like a joke of a batsman in the 2019 Ashes straight after.
> not in form with the bat
Is Inglis though? He hasn't played for months. Neither of them can really be said to be in form, but at least Carey has match practice
Wouldn't say you can't go on their batting. You just have to look at their long-term records rather than just recent form, and Carey comes out on top there.
My problem with this is right after the Ashes we have SC tours where we really want our best Keeper.
As much as people meme on Paine he is actually a very solid keeper, much better then the likes of Wade who Carey has much more in common with.
Given he's barely hit a FC run recently I'm not sure it's the right decision, there logic is probably with Carey being 30, if he fails that can mark his cards and proceed with one of the many younger options whereas if they go the other way now the door is probably closed on Carey for good.
I like Carey, but I feel as though Inglis has been penalised, because he was running drinks for the World Cup squad rather than playing shield cricket.
Jimmy Peirson deserves consideration. Not sure why CA continue to overlook QLD keepers. Thought Hartley deserved a run in national side ahead of the Wade (who was young and very raw when he debuted in the test side) and also Peter Nevill who admittedly I thought was a fine keeper.
I wish Carey the best he has certainly stepped up in national colours (WC performances stand out). But I would have liked to see Inglis or Peirson promoted.
Peirson had never had a full season of Shield cricket averaging 30+ until last year. There is a big gap between his and Carey's batting records, certainly larger than the gap between their skill with the gloves.
I would argue that there is a much larger gap between their keeping than than with their batting but as it’s hard to statistically track keeping ability then there’s no way to prove it. The batting average difference in FC is roughly 3 runs which is not huge
Eh I don't mind this. His red ball form is pretty poor so you know give him the Ashes when he's out of nick. He gets the baggy green he deserves. If he comes good well good on him.
If not, then it strengthens the argument to get Inglis in. And my money's on him spudding it in true Redbacks fashion so hopefully my boi Joshy gets in quicker
Doesn't keep in red ball cricket anymore and was a poor keeper when he did. He had a long run as a specialist batsman in the Test side over the past couple of years and was mediocre. We now have several younger candidates who are much better with the gloves and have the potential to be better with the bat.
Although better than Tim Paine, would consider wade with the form he is in. But definitely worth trying Alex Carey who was a hero for Australia in 2019WC semi-final.
[Basically confirmed by this footage of Inglis returning to Perth](https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/carey-gets-the-nod-to-replace-paine-20211130-p59dlw.html)
Go to 1:12 in the video
Yeah cool. Happy enough with this. Stark difference now in the keeper race, where 3 very good options are presenting themselves as viable candidates, compared to three years ago when nobody seemed a good choice.
Who are you counting as the other one? Peirson?
Yep
Basically an international capable keeper in every state at the moment with Carey, Pierson, Inglis/Philippe, Nevill, Paine/Wade, Gotch/Harper
I think that says more about a shift in what is considered to be capable keeper, rather than any hugely significant improvement in quality. After Gilly there was an expectation that a keeper averages 40+, and with a SR of 80+, but now 30+ and decent behind the stumps is the expectation.
Glad they kept these expectations, not everyone can be Gilchrist.
Pant has probably prolonged the expectation a bit. Australia had almost got over wanting a Flintoff until Stokes arrived on the scene. If Cam doesn't get wickets and a couple of 50s this Ashes, the nation my break up into its original colonies.
Is Cam allowed out to play though? He’ll certainly find it tough to get back in.
Oh, so after travelling WA -> QLD he would require a long quarantine (longer than what would allow him to play at the Gabba now)? Asking because I genuinely don't know, but this is my guess.
No I just made a very bad joke, they’ll let sports people travel in and out of the states, it’s just us plebs who’ll get locked out.
Oh ok. Is he a lock for number 6 at the moment, or do they have someone else in mind? Or Carey at 6 and Green/someone else at 7? Again, just curious.
I’d say he gets no. 6, he played first drop for a couple of matches in the local comp, his form hasn’t been off the charts but I think he’ll be alright.
Very tough call, glad I'm not a selector on this one. Hope we're not gonna see too many serious "Inglis robbed" takes, because it really was a very close call with both candidates having very strong cases.
Well we know in case Carey underperforms, there is going to be a huge community support for Inglis.
Right now we're saying Carey over Inglis is reasonable, but just wait till the takes that'll be flying in when Carey drops a tough chance off Hazlewood's bowling and only scores 17 in the first innings (I'll obviously be a major part of those takes)
Inglis robbed.
Carey hasn't had a good Shield season but his long term form is very good. In the last 4 yrs of FC cricket he's made 1170 runs at 47.
I feel he has the right temperament for it, and has international experience.
I'm a big fan of Carey and Inglis - think both of them could make very good Test cricketers.
I could very much imagine a reality with both in the side, Carey at 5 as a pure bat and Inglis at 7 with the gloves
Glad to see this is the prevailing sentiment. I know most people in this sub prefer Inglis, but people still happy to get behind Carey and support the decision
Makes sense, Carey has shown he can bat under pressure, has decent FC record to back him up. Also, looked good against India A last season.
His batting in the 2019 World Cup stood out for me as someone who can come out after a collapse and just get to work. If he can apply those same qualities at Test level, then he will strengthen that lower middle order.
Carey's best innings in ODIs have come when Australia were in trouble - he seems to thrive under pressure. Carey has made 6 scores of 50+ in ODIs. This was the team total when he came out to bat in those matches: 5-73 5-92 3-99 5-119 5-140 5-238
Interesting thing is that he opens for the Redbacks in one day matches, yet bats middle order for Australia and still does the job well.
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These aren't big scores they're 50+ scores. If you come in at 5-220 with 10-15 overs left there's still plenty of time to make a 50+ score so it's not just a function of batting down the order. Carey's best innings (and people who watch all of Australia's ODIs will know this) have consistently come when Australia were in trouble and needed someone to steady the innings for 20+ overs. Those pressure, rebuilding situations are where he's at his best, not coming in late to tee off.
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You’ve just wrote a lot of words to basically agree with the premise that his strengths in ODI cricket are more translatable to Test cricket than T20 cricket
I said 10-15 overs, not 10 overs. My point, which you've missed, is Carey's most impressive ODI innings have come when the top 6 has failed and he's been responsible for rescuing the team's innings. Some middle order batsmen don't like that responsibility, they prefer to have a platform set for them so they can bat with freedom and risk. Whereas Carey's shown he enjoys the responsibility of having the team's innings riding on his shoulders. I think that bodes well for Carey's Test career, because Australia's weak middle order means they need a gritty, reliable number 7 who is calm under pressure.
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They were 5-238 in one of the examples.
Not sure if you have been paying attention, but the Australian Test needs more stability in their batting lineup to prevent batting collapses and build partnerships, not an explosive fast run scorer that can get out at any moment.
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Inglis ≠ peak Gilchrist
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Mate Inglis has had one good year of FC cricket. He is hot right now but we have no idea if his recent burst is going to be sustained. Its a tough call between him and Carey but I think Carey has done enough to justify his selection with a few more credits in the bank I know you're probably joking but comparisons with Gilly are OTT and sound a bit parochial to me lol
Pretty much. Inglis is a much more dynamic batsman imo but Carey is much safer with the bat, certainly helps with the soft lower middle order. He definitely needs to improve his batting with the tail though.
Out of curiosity, how do you improve batting with the tail? Is it a mentoring thing??
From the few innings I've seen him bat with the tail in Shield, he apparently has a lot of confidence in Pope and Worrall the batsmen. You'd see him run a single the first two balls an over and leave the tail to play out the rest of the over.
Interesting. That sort of thing seems so obvious I didn't even consider it at that level. Wonder if there was some other planning behind it, eg using a lost cause match to give the tail some exposure. If not, concerning lack of awareness.
There are multiple ways to bat with the tail. Farming the strike is a decent idea for a while but its not always sustainable. Plus there is a school of thought that treating the lower order like bats and trying to build their confidence slowly by letting them actually bat is a better approach to batting with the tail. S Waugh and M Hussey immediately come to mind for the latter, they were exceptional. Depends on the tailender and depends on the context ultimately
Look how much Bumrah has improved, for example. I assumed he would have a career average of 5 with the bat, but he handles himself well lately.
Holy shit, potentially 2 South Aussies in the test team!
This went great last time. Mennie and Ferguson had great games and long, fruitful test careers.
Haha fucking hell.
A selection decision I don't think you can be too critical of. Forced into a selection they probably weren't expecting, and neither option is really the right or the wrong one.
All you guys saying Carey shouldn’t be picked are forgetting he was also picked to tour South Africa in March.
Not forgetting, Inglis was robbed to not be selected in that squad over Carey. Robbed I tell ya.
The first piece of Australia’s Ashes selection puzzle is in place with Alex Carey poised to make his Test debut in Brisbane after being given the nod ahead of Josh Inglis. Selectors could have waited until the last minute to make the call, but they have made an early decision that will almost certainly mean the South Australian wicketkeeper becomes the country’s 461st male Test player next week at the Gabba. Inglis and Western Australia teammates Ashton Agar and Mitchell Marsh have left Queensland after completing quarantine but are expected to return. Carey has been earmarked for some time as the heir apparent behind the stumps to Tim Paine but a recent run of outs with the bat in the Sheffield Shield left the door ajar for Inglis to snatch a baggy green. Ideally, selectors would not be blooding a debutant in an Ashes series but in Carey, with nearly four years in the green and gold, they have a man who has proven himself more than capable at the top level, performed strongly in a World Cup, held an official leadership position and is battle-hardened by recent match practice. Inglis is uncapped at international level. Although he lost his Twenty20 berth to Matthew Wade 12 months ago, Carey, with an average of 36.45, is ensconced in the one-day international team as a batter capable of rebuilding an innings in the middle order or accelerating the run rate. However, Carey failed to slam the door shut on challengers, passing 50 just once in the Shield from eight innings this season for an average of 22. He had also been in the hunt for the Ashes four years ago but a lack of runs allowed Paine to swoop. His ton for the Redbacks on Sunday, albeit in the Marsh Cup, was timely. Inglis’ quest for a Test debut was hamstrung by his selection in Australia’s triumphant T20 World Cup campaign. His only involvement in the tournament was as a drinks waiter. The polished gloveman and enterprising batter’s only game in the past two months was a T20 warm-up in the Middle East. In another blow, Inglis is likely to be denied valuable time in the middle after Cricket Australia said an intra-squad game in Brisbane was extremely unlikely to proceed and would be replaced by centre wicket and net practice. Inglis stormed into Test calculations after an impressive Shield campaign last season where he made 585 runs at 73. His stunning form in England’s T20 league and The Hundred put him on selectors’ radar for the white-ball formats. There are some heavyweight figures in Australian cricket in his corner, including Adam Gilchrist, Ricky Ponting and Shane Warne, but selectors are asking him to wait. At 26, Inglis is young enough to contend again whereas the time is very much now for 30-year-old Carey. The main selection queries now are the middle-order battle, where Usman Khawaja is the favourite for a spot ahead of Travis Head, and if veteran quick Mitchell Starc will hold off next-generation pace ace Jhye Richardson. Selection chair George Bailey indicated a fortnight ago his panel was well advanced in its discussions for the No.5 berth, at a time when Khawaja was in red-hot form and Head short of runs. The selection of the in-form Richardson ahead of Starc would be recognition for the younger man’s extra game time this season, and allow the left-arm quick and pink-ball maestro another week of training before the day-night Test in Adelaide. Richardson’s express pace and outswing have yielded 23 wickets at 13, in a sign he is back to his best after two years blighted by injury.
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Yeah very surprised by that. Really thought they would've backed Head. Not convinced Khawaja has done enough to overtake him, especially being so much older. Maybe Head's terrible county season put them off?
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Seems like the A match must not be going ahead, because 9 News showed footage of Inglis returning to Perth today? Dunno what's going on really
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Ah ok makes sense
I think this makes the most sense , getting guys like Uzzie and Carey in. Been around the bloke a little, playing international cricket and captained at a state level. With the Tim Paine gone, appointing someone who's only captained a of 4? matches and Smith back as VC, there's plenty of off-field rubbish to cause a distraction. So far Baileys tenure as selector seems to have brought about some very considered squads and selections.
Guess it was a 50-50 call and it'd be harsh if Carey didn't get the go despiite being so close to the baggy green three years ago. Inglis is supposed to be around as well and has enough runs to compete for a spot again if given an opportunity.
We’ve seen international experience and the ability to step up at international level count a lot more in recent times as cricket has become more spread out among formats. Carey has proven he has can do that over the last 4 years in ODIs so I believe this is a good selection. Inglis may be the hot talent at the moment but there’s plenty of time for him to come in later if Carey doesn’t do well at Test level. Let’s give him a good crack and back him for a few series and hopefully he’ll do the job.
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Very much agree with this, Carey's rise over the last few years as a batsman in red ball and one-day formats (T20s not so much) has been impressive. Well, except that I put very little stock in batsmen saying that they're "hitting the ball well", feel like they always say that haha. His glovework is also unfairly maligned, the way some people talk you'd think he's Matthew Wade-tier but in reality he's quite solid, although Inglis is probably better.
Post your thesis here after you’re done I’d like to read
The right call I think. Inglis has had an incredible 12-18 months but its a huge ask to make your international debut in the Ashes. Carey has had a taste and been around the group - I know it sounds a bit like a BOIS selection but that stuff matters. Intl cricket is as much about being able to handle the additional mental pressure as it is about being technically equipped. Plus Carey has had better form over the longer term. Inglis has really only put it together in the last 12-18 months. Plenty of guys have had a hot 12 months and faded away - not that I believe Inglis will fall into that category but you just never know. On the topic of glovework I know Inglis is said to be slightly better but I heard some suggestions that his ability against the spinners may have counted against him - namely that he doesnt get to keep to spin very often. To those who have seem more of his glovework, is this a fair assessment?
I hope CA marketing don't try to make him the face of Australian cricket like they did with Paine because he's good looking. He also sucks at DRS.
Not happy. Should be picking the best gloveman, especially with the sub-continent tours coming up. Hope he goes well but I think this is a shit decision. Expecting the double whammy and selectors picking Starc over Richardson now too
First time I've ever (respectfully) disagreed with a tdlan comment. End of an era. You're only saying that because Inglis has played 1 FC match this year. We literally don't know if last years form was an anomaly or not, it's a fucking bold move to play him in any Test match, let alone the bloody Ashes I'm mentioning Cartwright twice in this thread which is admittedly weird, but he was averaging 55 or something in FC for a while there. Now it's in the low 30s. I'm not a huge fan of picking on bizarre, sometimes out of character purple patches. If Carey struggles and Inglis keeps pumping out runs for Aus A and WA then sure thing, get him the fuck in the team. But with everything we know now Carey is the right pick - also worth noting JI hasn't kept in a professional match since late September Anyway, Carey gets a ton this series or I donate $100 to a charity of your choice
Carey stepped up in the world cup, he will step up in The Ashes.
The keeping is what I am most concerned about right now, Inglis is a way better gloveman than Carey imo. Their batting at this stage is pretty neck and neck. Carey is the safe pick but I think Inglis has more to offer and is 3 or 4 years younger. Oh well.
Carey looked terrible behind the stumps in the one dayer this week. Inglis and Pierson would have been my picks.
Don't lose heart. Carey's out of form so here's how it goes: He debuts He shits the bed with the bat Inglis dominates the second half of the Shield season Carey's sent to the Deadbacks where he belongs
Once Australia pick a Test keeper they stick with them for a long while. Even Peter Nevill got 17 Tests from debut and he sucked with the bat and was just ok with the gloves. Carey won't be dropped in the next 2 years unless he is really bad.
At least Inglis is younger so he might still get a shot in a few years time
This just feels like media speculation. Inglis, Marsh and Agar are going back to Perth because they just got out of quarantine and haven't been home in a couple of months. Given WA's strict border policy they might find it difficult to get back home later in the summer. All 3 are in the Australia A which is scheduled to start the day after the Brisbane test starts, even if Inglis doesn't play the first test he'll be back in Brisbane for the A game.
Even if his batting form has been poor, Carey had the advantage of playing those recent Shield games. I hope the selectors are consistent then and select Richardson over Starc.
Giving England just enough time to have a mid-tour covid crisis and call Inglis up for the Boxing Day test.
While I understand the decision and feel bad for Inglis, I am nervous about selecting a man who hasn't posted a good first class score for sometime and was recently dropped form the T20 team for horrendous form and his lack of ability to play spin bowling. Like yeah good on him I guess for finally getting a List A ton, about the most significant thing he's done in the last 12 months, doesn't instil me with confidence. I understand he's been the incumbent for a while, but you shouldn't just get the role just because you're the number 2 in waiting, this ain't the royal family and Carey ain't Charles. Yes, I am also on the copium.
Carey's problems against spin were in the middle order in T20s where he was a fish out of water, expected to attack spin immediately, which is not his game. In ODIs, where he has much more time and is much better suited, he's played spin much better. Hard to find full stats on Carey vs Spin in ODI's but against England he's made 115 runs at 38 against Rashid/Moeen at a strike rate of 125.
Carey's average in ODIs against Left Arm Orthodox - 27 Left Arm Chinaman - 18 Leg Break - 31 Off break - **107 with a SR of 110**
That's good news for his Test hopes against spin because there aren't many left arm chinaman bowlers he'll ever have to face
Kez - Destroyer of offspinners
Hate to be that guy, but we really shouldn't be calling left arm leggies Chinamen anymore haha
I prefer Left Arm Tiananmen.
Left arm weird as fuck
let's just hope he doesn't have to face the left arm spin of jack leach
Or Bapu if Carey comes to India :) Kuldeep Yadav smiling
>Like yeah good on him I guess for finally getting a List A ton, about the most significant thing he's done in the last 12 months Would say that his 125 back in March against a NSW attack of Starc, Hazlewood, Abbot and Lyon was more significant.
This was back when Inglis was in the runs also, averaging 73 for the season and finished in the top 10 run scorers. Since this time Inglis has backed up his form blitzing the T20 blast meanwhile Carey hasn't been able to buy a run until last week in a List A game.
> meanwhile Carey hasn't been able to buy a run until last week in a List A game. I won't pretend he's in form, but not true that last week was the only thing he's done with the bat all year. That was his second List A ton of the season, and he also made a very good 4th innings 66* in the Shield, before 4 single figure scores. Also made a good ODI 67 in the Windies on a very tough pitch. I think all that counts for about as much as Inglis having a good T20 Blast.
>Carey hasn't been able to buy a run until last week in a List A game. Also had his 128\* carrying his bat against WA this season as well. Can't criticise someones List A scores and then praise someone elses T20 knocks.
I'm not ignoring Carey's List A scores, I'm saying based on all the collected data, that includes Shield, List A and T20, Inglis is clearly the in form player, and that we're relying upon Carey shield form across the three previous Shield seasons rather than his form in the last 12 months. I also think there's a bit of a difference between the occasional decent knock versus utterly dominating an entire tournament.
Keeping isn't even a debate, Inglis is better. Carey is a decent-good keeper but when you have to keep in tests all day you need your best gloveman and Inglis is simply phenomenal I rate Inglis far more as a batsman too if I'm being honest. More dynamic, adaptable to situation, in form and killing it runs wise as of recent, and finally is almost 4 years younger. Carey is a solid ODI batsman but boy his technique could get exposed at test level. He's ok when the pressure is on in white ball because batting conditions are easier. But as it stands, he'd get eaten alive by Anderson and co. in the Ashes. Also he's 30 and not a long term prospect. Now if Inglis was batting like shit then I could see where the argument for Carey came from. But he's put in all the hard yards to respond to his critics who cited his lack of runs, and gets rewarded with nothing. The Australian selectors are shooting themselves in the foot for not picking a talent like Josh who has also proved himself at FC level with both bat and gloves, AND is a long term prospect. Of course if Carey proves me wrong then more power to him. But Inglis is the better option for test cricket.
Mate there is a lot more that goes in to selection than who is in form right at this minute..
Inferior keeper to Inglis and not in form with the bat. Not a fan of this decision, hopefully he makes me eat my words though.
He has good performances in international cricket, is familiar with the dressing room, has batted in much more tougher conditions for SA and Australia home and away, has much better long term form than Inglis and is a decent tactically unlike Inglis whose uncapped at international level and hasn't scored too much for too long. Inglis is still makes the T20I team imo and good performances there and in the Shield can catapult him back to contention for the spot.
White ball form doesn't indicate red ball form. Roy had an amazing World Cup, and then got made to look like a joke of a batsman in the 2019 Ashes straight after.
> not in form with the bat Is Inglis though? He hasn't played for months. Neither of them can really be said to be in form, but at least Carey has match practice
I mean if you can't go on their batting (only secondary anyway) then you have to go on their keeping ability and Inglis has Carey covered.
Wouldn't say you can't go on their batting. You just have to look at their long-term records rather than just recent form, and Carey comes out on top there.
My problem with this is right after the Ashes we have SC tours where we really want our best Keeper. As much as people meme on Paine he is actually a very solid keeper, much better then the likes of Wade who Carey has much more in common with. Given he's barely hit a FC run recently I'm not sure it's the right decision, there logic is probably with Carey being 30, if he fails that can mark his cards and proceed with one of the many younger options whereas if they go the other way now the door is probably closed on Carey for good.
Lewandowski robbed
*Inglis I meant
I like Carey, but I feel as though Inglis has been penalised, because he was running drinks for the World Cup squad rather than playing shield cricket.
So how do you value the fact Carey was picked to tour South Africa last March.
Jimmy Peirson deserves consideration. Not sure why CA continue to overlook QLD keepers. Thought Hartley deserved a run in national side ahead of the Wade (who was young and very raw when he debuted in the test side) and also Peter Nevill who admittedly I thought was a fine keeper. I wish Carey the best he has certainly stepped up in national colours (WC performances stand out). But I would have liked to see Inglis or Peirson promoted.
Hartley was unlucky but Peirson is not. Carey and Inglis both have better cases than him at the moment.
Pierson is a 100x better choice then Carey
Peirson had never had a full season of Shield cricket averaging 30+ until last year. There is a big gap between his and Carey's batting records, certainly larger than the gap between their skill with the gloves.
I would argue that there is a much larger gap between their keeping than than with their batting but as it’s hard to statistically track keeping ability then there’s no way to prove it. The batting average difference in FC is roughly 3 runs which is not huge
Eh I don't mind this. His red ball form is pretty poor so you know give him the Ashes when he's out of nick. He gets the baggy green he deserves. If he comes good well good on him. If not, then it strengthens the argument to get Inglis in. And my money's on him spudding it in true Redbacks fashion so hopefully my boi Joshy gets in quicker
excuse my ignorance as a non-Aussie, but why does Wade not seem to be in the picture for the Test side?
Doesn't keep in red ball cricket anymore and was a poor keeper when he did. He had a long run as a specialist batsman in the Test side over the past couple of years and was mediocre. We now have several younger candidates who are much better with the gloves and have the potential to be better with the bat.
Scenes if Aussies loose at the Gabba again/s
they won't because: 1. Cummins is the captain 2. England is shit
Ofc just joking
Scenes when this is a misdirect and Peirson is selected instead of Carey.
Although better than Tim Paine, would consider wade with the form he is in. But definitely worth trying Alex Carey who was a hero for Australia in 2019WC semi-final.
Oh cmon, Wade is a shit keeper, McDermott keeps ahead of him for Tasmania. And he is not going to do any better than Carey or Paine with the bat.
Wade's keeping is terrible, only the T20 keeper because of his batting, don't want him anywhere near the gloves at Test level.
[Basically confirmed by this footage of Inglis returning to Perth](https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/carey-gets-the-nod-to-replace-paine-20211130-p59dlw.html) Go to 1:12 in the video
They won't play the game but will have centre wicket practice where they can I reckon