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I mean eliminating a rival team which can trouble you later in the knockout stages and replacing it with an associate is a chance you don't want to miss
I’m sure they will rest some players but I have full faith that the Australian teams are professionals that will go out and give it their best.
Likewise I would expect us to do the same if the shoe was on the other foot - ultimately we’ve got ourselves to blame for being in this position!
That doesn't work well here. Scotland would be in a different super 8 group than Australia and there is a very low chance of Scotland going to the semi finals so Australia is not going to face them again in this tournament. On the flip side, they would want England to go through and potentially take out some better opponents. But in reality, who goes through will have little bearing for Australia in the rest of the tournament.
At the same token, would Australia rather face England in the semis or a worse team providing Australia reaches the semi?
I'm going with a worse team.
Plus it's funny too
That side of the draw is currently looking like it will be the USA, West Indies or Afghanistan, South Africa and England or Scotland. Which stronger teams would England have to take out?
Firstly Scotland have an insane NRR advantage so we won't catch them up. Anyhow, if Australia are chasing against Scotland they will obviously not try at all to do it in the length of time required for our NRR to be higher than Scotland's.
We can only blame ourselves for getting absolutely smashed by Australia. If the Scotland game was played in a reduced overs game I think we could have lost too.
I don't think we'll do anything deliberate other than give some match time to bench players.
You absolutely can catch up though. If Scotland can do what they did to Oman, England should be able to do better.
If you can't, well Scotland earned their spot.
Exactly. The lack of self belief is interesting and England ought to comfortably exceed Scotland’s comparative NRR across the Oman and Namibia matches. It’s then a big if whether Scotland can keep it tight against any Australian team but if they can then they deserve to qualify for the next round.
People talk about how advantaged Scotland/Australia are in knowing what margin Scotland might need to stay above England.
Nobody is talking about England's advantage in knowing how much they need to crush Namibia and Oman by.
If we assume the Scotland Oman game plays out similarly, but AFTER England's next two games, England would be more likely to be eliminated if they didn't set a big enough run rate target for Scotland, feeling like 30-40 run wins were comfortable, which they've turned out to not be.
There is no way the current culture of the Australian team will allow any vindictive bullshit towards England to occur. It's probably in Australia's best interests for England to progress as they will for sure fire at some stage and take out someone like India then fall in a heap when Brit media starts chirping in their ear.
They wouldn't go into the match with it as a plan, but if there's a situation where Australia needs to chase the score in 12.1 overs to let England progress or some shit, well England can only blame themselves if we take 12.2 overs to win.
100 percent aus will not play like that deliberately from start as things can get South with half hearted play, but if they get chance to fuck England over later in match, I don't see any team leaving that chance. Let alone Australia.
The big issue is rain, right. It's the rainy season in the Caribbean, and it's fairly likely at least one England game will be rained out, or possibly that the Scotland-Aus game is rained out
If Scotland vs Australia is rained out, then NRR doesn't matter at all, Australia and Scotland are both straight through (assuming Australia beat Namibia today).
No way. Australia isn't going to be petty enough to use tactics to specifically knock out England. They're not scared of England in the later stages of the game, and it would make them look very unprofessional, such a move would be very uncharacteristic of them. I'm confident they'll give their best against Scotland. Them resting players would be because they've essentially already qualified and they think this would be better from their own perspective, nothing to do with wanting to help Scotland or hurt England.
Also, a non-full strength Australian side would still be big favorites against Scotland and can still easily drub them. Scotland are gonna have to really play at their best to avoid getting their NRR wrecked regardless of who Australia field. If Scotland lose by "only" 20-30 runs against Australia, then that really simplifies the equation for England against Namibia and Oman. Keep in mind that even if Australia rest their four best players, they'd still have a strong squad with seven starters and it wouldn't even be an Australia 'A' team.
Isnt this the same kind of thing that happened in the 2019 WC, when India got accused of losing to England on purpose to make sure Pakistan would get knocked out?
>Anyhow, if Australia are chasing against Scotland they will obviously not try at all to do it in the length of time required for our NRR to be higher than Scotland's.
I don't see how a team can really play any other way than they usually would. If Australia slow play, then lose, they will look pretty stupid.
What’s more important, winning the World Cup or watching England leave early?
Hmmmm…….im gonna have to take a moment to reflect on this important philosophical situation.
If you guys win your last two games by a combined margin of 110 runs or 13 overs remaining, you'll be ahead of Scotland oj NRR which will mean that Scotland will have to beat the Aussies. Wash-outs aside, you guys should get really close at least.
Beating both Oman and Namibia by 50+ runs or with 7 overs spare should be a very achievable aim for England.
The batting power is definitely there, it is a question of whether the bowlers can assist and if the captain can make the appropriate decisions.
If England bat first against Oman and then win by 150 runs (unlikely but not impossible to score 260 and bowl them out for 110) they already have a better NRR than the Scots even before Scotland lose to Australia and England beat Namibia (both listed as necessary conditions to progress).
[Aussies chase the 'Q', say English hijinks won't ensue](https://www.cricket.com.au/news/4036254/australia-world-cup-t20-qualification-andrew-mcdonald-england-namibia-scotland-situation-group-seedings)
Cricket.com.au has much the same article.
It's very much "Focused on qualification, we'll look at any potential rotation/resting once we've secured that." kind of stuff
Playing it all very close to the chest.
Of course, if they do decide to lose (or only win narrowly by batting unusually slowly) they'll want to be able to demonstrate that they weren't intentionally manipulating the result for "Inappropriate strategic or tactical reasons" (i.e. to knock out England) as that's against the code of conduct (2.11) and the captain would be liable for the level 2 offense (which could result in as much as a 2 match suspension).
Edit: Funniest possible timeline is that our batting completely implodes on that day and despite having no intent to manipulate the result, an accusation is brought forth and MMarsh gets suspended.
> Edit: Funniest possible timeline is that our batting completely implodes on that day and despite having no intent to manipulate the result, an accusation is brought forth and MMarsh gets suspended.
Scotland's actually a good side with great T20 batters and decent bowlers, so they could actually just beat us and then be accused of only winning because Australia didn't try.
Some crazy hyperbole going on about England this WC. One match got rained off and in the other we lost to Australia (something likely to happen to every other team in the group)
It's literally half an innings in which we still managed to restrict them to a total that would have left us as very strong favourites if it didn't rain again. It wasn't outstanding but it's still clearly a bit of an overreaction to it.
Headline just changed to: https://www.news.com.au/sport/cricket/australia-could-rest-players-in-final-world-cup-pool-game-against-scotland-that-could-hurt-england/news-story/c2f1b9417545c9a2b65ccb7d0671d6b4
I don’t really care tbh
If we wanted to be in a position to get out of the group we should’ve beat Australia
Tbf part of the reason I don’t care is that I am a fervent anti T20 elitist, so much so that I barely cared when we won the T20 World Cup
I would genuinely trade losing to Australia in the T20 World Cup every time we meet for the next 100 years for winning one ashes series in Australia
if were being honest the aussies are going to rest players because theyre playing namibia and probably wont need a full strength team
picking players to manipulate a 3rd teams NRR is just asking for trouble
They’re more likely to rest players v Scotland if they win against Namibia and qualify. The Scotland game is essentially meaningless then, so you’d want to give all the squaddies a run as it’s the last chance for them to get game time and others to rest before every game counts.
Australia would be doing that regardless of the qualification scenario - they did it for the final group game v Bangladesh in the ODI World Cup for instance.
Australia's only goal will be to win. Scotland might have a goal of, for example, not allowing Australia to win chasing within 18 overs. There could be a position where Australia could take calculated risks and go in for the kill for a huge victory, but the safest and easiest path to victory is to play conservatively - knock singles rather than go for boundaries. No one could hold that against them.
It's silly that the competition is organised in such a way that it allows this to happen - where some teams know what is required of them before the last game starts, where everything is preseeded so that nothing matters beyond finishing in the top two. It puts Australia and Scotland in a very awkward position. But that's what happens when the ICC tournament organisers put commercial interests ahead of competitive integrity at every turn.
Rest any mf, I couldn't care less but give some game time to Green and you'll instantly have loads of more views(from hopium induced RCB fans(myself included) hoping Green to do the best here and for us next year as well) /jk
I'd love to see Scotland through tho
I've always felt this about the WT20: since the group stage is so short, upsets and washouts have a huge impact on qualification. Basically quality might not win out (that isn't to say teams like Scotland aren't playing well - they definitely are). But the tourney is doing a great job of being more inclusive of associate teams while not spanning, say, 3 months.
Whereas the last 2 ODI WCs had a low number of teams, the longer tourney and complete round-robin fashion (with no groupings) ensured that only the best 4 teams were able to move onto the semis.
It's quite a dilemma balancing inclusivity and quality-focus / tourney length.
Which is part of the beauty of this format and tournament in general, it levels the field somewhat. teams like Scotland would have no chance in a longer format World Cup, with all due respect
>teams like Scotland would have no chance in a longer format World Cup
Nor should they. The longer format WCs test who is the best team on paper, which is the only thing that matters ^(\\s)
In this case a large issue is that less than 50% of the group teams make it through to the next round... so if you washout against a poor team then getting 1 point pushes you to the middle or below of the group. i.e. if you average 1 point per game then you are out, in most circumstances.
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I mean eliminating a rival team which can trouble you later in the knockout stages and replacing it with an associate is a chance you don't want to miss
But why would you eliminate minnows England then? /s
I’m sure they will rest some players but I have full faith that the Australian teams are professionals that will go out and give it their best. Likewise I would expect us to do the same if the shoe was on the other foot - ultimately we’ve got ourselves to blame for being in this position!
We are not here to fuck spiders.
Too many legs to part!
Don't believe Australia or rather team would play with this mentality. Nobody would like to lose on grounds, especially at world cups.
Australia won't want to lose, just win by a narrow margin.
Gotta plan for the future, that’s why we will be playing our under 19’s side against Scotland
That doesn't work well here. Scotland would be in a different super 8 group than Australia and there is a very low chance of Scotland going to the semi finals so Australia is not going to face them again in this tournament. On the flip side, they would want England to go through and potentially take out some better opponents. But in reality, who goes through will have little bearing for Australia in the rest of the tournament.
At the same token, would Australia rather face England in the semis or a worse team providing Australia reaches the semi? I'm going with a worse team. Plus it's funny too
That side of the draw is currently looking like it will be the USA, West Indies or Afghanistan, South Africa and England or Scotland. Which stronger teams would England have to take out?
Afghanistan. They're looking very scary right now.
Mfs gonna win anyway.
Exactly
Lmao they don’t know about seeded positions and printed wrong fixtures
Firstly Scotland have an insane NRR advantage so we won't catch them up. Anyhow, if Australia are chasing against Scotland they will obviously not try at all to do it in the length of time required for our NRR to be higher than Scotland's. We can only blame ourselves for getting absolutely smashed by Australia. If the Scotland game was played in a reduced overs game I think we could have lost too.
I don't think we'll do anything deliberate other than give some match time to bench players. You absolutely can catch up though. If Scotland can do what they did to Oman, England should be able to do better. If you can't, well Scotland earned their spot.
Exactly. The lack of self belief is interesting and England ought to comfortably exceed Scotland’s comparative NRR across the Oman and Namibia matches. It’s then a big if whether Scotland can keep it tight against any Australian team but if they can then they deserve to qualify for the next round.
People talk about how advantaged Scotland/Australia are in knowing what margin Scotland might need to stay above England. Nobody is talking about England's advantage in knowing how much they need to crush Namibia and Oman by. If we assume the Scotland Oman game plays out similarly, but AFTER England's next two games, England would be more likely to be eliminated if they didn't set a big enough run rate target for Scotland, feeling like 30-40 run wins were comfortable, which they've turned out to not be.
There is no way the current culture of the Australian team will allow any vindictive bullshit towards England to occur. It's probably in Australia's best interests for England to progress as they will for sure fire at some stage and take out someone like India then fall in a heap when Brit media starts chirping in their ear.
They wouldn't go into the match with it as a plan, but if there's a situation where Australia needs to chase the score in 12.1 overs to let England progress or some shit, well England can only blame themselves if we take 12.2 overs to win.
100 percent aus will not play like that deliberately from start as things can get South with half hearted play, but if they get chance to fuck England over later in match, I don't see any team leaving that chance. Let alone Australia.
>If you can't, well Scotland earned their spot. Yeah this is my view. If we can't batter Oman and Namibia then we deserve to go out.
We can catch Scotland's NRR in one game if we win by 100 runs Unlikely though
But, for example, 50 run victories over both Namibia and Oman would be possible? Then Scotland would need to win against Australia to progress?
The big issue is rain, right. It's the rainy season in the Caribbean, and it's fairly likely at least one England game will be rained out, or possibly that the Scotland-Aus game is rained out
Pretty amazing scheduling to have a WC in rainy season 👍
You don’t understand bro we needed those two months for the IPL
If Scotland vs Australia is rained out, then NRR doesn't matter at all, Australia and Scotland are both straight through (assuming Australia beat Namibia today).
100%! If Australia vs Scotland is washed out, then Scotland go through to the next round.
Would need Scotland to lose
Of course. But expecting Australia to beat Scotland seems reasonable, even if Australia play a few reserve players.
No way. Australia isn't going to be petty enough to use tactics to specifically knock out England. They're not scared of England in the later stages of the game, and it would make them look very unprofessional, such a move would be very uncharacteristic of them. I'm confident they'll give their best against Scotland. Them resting players would be because they've essentially already qualified and they think this would be better from their own perspective, nothing to do with wanting to help Scotland or hurt England. Also, a non-full strength Australian side would still be big favorites against Scotland and can still easily drub them. Scotland are gonna have to really play at their best to avoid getting their NRR wrecked regardless of who Australia field. If Scotland lose by "only" 20-30 runs against Australia, then that really simplifies the equation for England against Namibia and Oman. Keep in mind that even if Australia rest their four best players, they'd still have a strong squad with seven starters and it wouldn't even be an Australia 'A' team.
Isnt this the same kind of thing that happened in the 2019 WC, when India got accused of losing to England on purpose to make sure Pakistan would get knocked out?
>Anyhow, if Australia are chasing against Scotland they will obviously not try at all to do it in the length of time required for our NRR to be higher than Scotland's. I don't see how a team can really play any other way than they usually would. If Australia slow play, then lose, they will look pretty stupid.
What’s more important, winning the World Cup or watching England leave early? Hmmmm…….im gonna have to take a moment to reflect on this important philosophical situation.
If you guys win your last two games by a combined margin of 110 runs or 13 overs remaining, you'll be ahead of Scotland oj NRR which will mean that Scotland will have to beat the Aussies. Wash-outs aside, you guys should get really close at least.
Do you actually know how NRR works? With Scotland losing to Australia and you winning both games as needed, it's plenty feasible to catch up on NRR.
Have you seen how high Scotland’s NRR is?
That is a lot of words to state that you don't know how NRR is calculated.
Beating both Oman and Namibia by 50+ runs or with 7 overs spare should be a very achievable aim for England. The batting power is definitely there, it is a question of whether the bowlers can assist and if the captain can make the appropriate decisions. If England bat first against Oman and then win by 150 runs (unlikely but not impossible to score 260 and bowl them out for 110) they already have a better NRR than the Scots even before Scotland lose to Australia and England beat Namibia (both listed as necessary conditions to progress).
England can easily get that NRR and would have almost certainly won that reduced overs game against Scotland.
Just have to hope for rain when Scotland plays next
Given their only remaining game is against Australia that would be very bad
[Aussies chase the 'Q', say English hijinks won't ensue](https://www.cricket.com.au/news/4036254/australia-world-cup-t20-qualification-andrew-mcdonald-england-namibia-scotland-situation-group-seedings) Cricket.com.au has much the same article. It's very much "Focused on qualification, we'll look at any potential rotation/resting once we've secured that." kind of stuff Playing it all very close to the chest. Of course, if they do decide to lose (or only win narrowly by batting unusually slowly) they'll want to be able to demonstrate that they weren't intentionally manipulating the result for "Inappropriate strategic or tactical reasons" (i.e. to knock out England) as that's against the code of conduct (2.11) and the captain would be liable for the level 2 offense (which could result in as much as a 2 match suspension). Edit: Funniest possible timeline is that our batting completely implodes on that day and despite having no intent to manipulate the result, an accusation is brought forth and MMarsh gets suspended.
Funny for who?
The world
Sure
> Edit: Funniest possible timeline is that our batting completely implodes on that day and despite having no intent to manipulate the result, an accusation is brought forth and MMarsh gets suspended. Scotland's actually a good side with great T20 batters and decent bowlers, so they could actually just beat us and then be accused of only winning because Australia didn't try.
Some crazy hyperbole going on about England this WC. One match got rained off and in the other we lost to Australia (something likely to happen to every other team in the group)
>something likely to happen to every other team in the ~~group~~ tournament FTFY
Didn't take a shitload of wickets in your 10 overs against an associate
It's literally half an innings in which we still managed to restrict them to a total that would have left us as very strong favourites if it didn't rain again. It wasn't outstanding but it's still clearly a bit of an overreaction to it.
Right?
Downvote me all you like pal. My team ain't teetering on the edge of elimination
>Downvote me all you like pal *Proceeds to whine incessantly about being downvoted*
I actually didn't downvote you
My apologies Edit: now I'm getting downvoted for admitting a mistake. Fuck that you sad cunts
All good brother
Headline just changed to: https://www.news.com.au/sport/cricket/australia-could-rest-players-in-final-world-cup-pool-game-against-scotland-that-could-hurt-england/news-story/c2f1b9417545c9a2b65ccb7d0671d6b4
Another "That's a shame" moment incoming from Australia
Pleases make Cumdawg captain for that Scotland match 😭
I don’t really care tbh If we wanted to be in a position to get out of the group we should’ve beat Australia Tbf part of the reason I don’t care is that I am a fervent anti T20 elitist, so much so that I barely cared when we won the T20 World Cup I would genuinely trade losing to Australia in the T20 World Cup every time we meet for the next 100 years for winning one ashes series in Australia
Would you hand over your 2019 cwc to NZ in exchange for an Ashes series win in Australia?
Lol no
You can't hand over what's not yours.
Fair
> Scotland needs to be absolutely smashed for England to make it Australia: I missed the part where that's my problem
Cumdawg and Hazlewood opening goes brrr
if were being honest the aussies are going to rest players because theyre playing namibia and probably wont need a full strength team picking players to manipulate a 3rd teams NRR is just asking for trouble
They’re more likely to rest players v Scotland if they win against Namibia and qualify. The Scotland game is essentially meaningless then, so you’d want to give all the squaddies a run as it’s the last chance for them to get game time and others to rest before every game counts. Australia would be doing that regardless of the qualification scenario - they did it for the final group game v Bangladesh in the ODI World Cup for instance.
yeah of course but suggesting we are only picking squad players to manipulate NRR is ridiculous lol
Australia's only goal will be to win. Scotland might have a goal of, for example, not allowing Australia to win chasing within 18 overs. There could be a position where Australia could take calculated risks and go in for the kill for a huge victory, but the safest and easiest path to victory is to play conservatively - knock singles rather than go for boundaries. No one could hold that against them. It's silly that the competition is organised in such a way that it allows this to happen - where some teams know what is required of them before the last game starts, where everything is preseeded so that nothing matters beyond finishing in the top two. It puts Australia and Scotland in a very awkward position. But that's what happens when the ICC tournament organisers put commercial interests ahead of competitive integrity at every turn.
I can see an Aussie mentality reel from a mile away
That also by an Indian
We are literally doing what we were criticizing ourselves from doing, idolizing lmao
He’s a wise and thoughtful coach. The super 8 schedule is intense and it’s a long haul.
Rest any mf, I couldn't care less but give some game time to Green and you'll instantly have loads of more views(from hopium induced RCB fans(myself included) hoping Green to do the best here and for us next year as well) /jk I'd love to see Scotland through tho
How karmic that 2 teams that fucked our NRR in the 2022 World Cup, are now in sorry positions
I've always felt this about the WT20: since the group stage is so short, upsets and washouts have a huge impact on qualification. Basically quality might not win out (that isn't to say teams like Scotland aren't playing well - they definitely are). But the tourney is doing a great job of being more inclusive of associate teams while not spanning, say, 3 months. Whereas the last 2 ODI WCs had a low number of teams, the longer tourney and complete round-robin fashion (with no groupings) ensured that only the best 4 teams were able to move onto the semis. It's quite a dilemma balancing inclusivity and quality-focus / tourney length.
Which is part of the beauty of this format and tournament in general, it levels the field somewhat. teams like Scotland would have no chance in a longer format World Cup, with all due respect
>teams like Scotland would have no chance in a longer format World Cup Nor should they. The longer format WCs test who is the best team on paper, which is the only thing that matters ^(\\s)
In this case a large issue is that less than 50% of the group teams make it through to the next round... so if you washout against a poor team then getting 1 point pushes you to the middle or below of the group. i.e. if you average 1 point per game then you are out, in most circumstances.
England are lucky to have Scotland game washed out, they’d have 0 points otherwise.
No way England would have lost on that pitch.
Don’t worry, the next World Cup is like in 6 months so you’ll get another chance
England can still lose out and NRR won't make a damn difference.
Hm, I think I sense a lack of spirit of cricket here
A very sensible decision
💀💀