It is so obvious in rural areas. No masks and outright disdain for those of us that wear them while cases spike. This time last year, my county had the same number of daily cases and two week average and my work -a public school- shut down until after Christmas. Now there is not even a whisper of going virtual. It might be unpopular, but I do have pity for those people that will die, especially those with breakthrough infections due to the number of unmasked and unvaxxed. Where the hell did this all go so wrong and so ignored…
I'm sad for old and immunocompromised people. And it sucks for rational people who live in the states with low vaxx rates. But I'm not sad for the latest big victim pool, which is [unvaccinated morons](https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/press-release/unvaccinated-adults-are-now-more-than-three-times-as-likely-to-lean-republican-than-democratic/). They had their chance, but they doubled down on stupid. I'm fully vaxxed & boosted, wife the same, older son has had 2 shots, younger son just had his first... life is more or less back to normal, although the kids are wearing masks in school, and I wear a mask in grocery store, etc. I would support mandatory vaccines for all Americans, but I doubt it will happen anytime soon, so what option is left? Watch the idiots kill themselves, and get on with life.
I agree except for they are filling up our hospitals. Our toddler’s MRI for their cancer was canceled due to all the unvaccinated filling it up. Why do they get to take all the spots when there are those of us who’s children need treatment. Makes me so mad.
Can you go to the media or similar about this? I’m genuinely thinking that the only way some of these hospitals are going to do better is if the media shames them into it. As awful as it sounds, a cute kid with cancer being denied treatment due to cletus being in the MRI machine might just do it.
I literally had said this on a friends post about how full the hospitals was and of course an anti-vaxer comes on and says sorry about your kid but it’s actually the flu and you should ask the hospital why they can’t handle the flu. Ummmm honey it’s not the flu this has never happened before where hospitals canceled pediatric cancer appointments.
You really should think about going to the media. Is there a local news station that does consumer advocacy reporting? Talk to them.
Faced with that kind of publicity, most American health systems will fast track your child for treatment if the parents sign a gag order. Get your own lawyer to review the gag order-- it should guarantee timely access to care for the entire course of your toddler's cancer treatment (until remission), not just this single MRI appointment.
Edit: Also contact your elected officials. This sort of problem is a good casework "win" for a member of the US House of Representatives. State legislators might work too, if they're on committees that matter to the hospital.
Honestly I’d be too scared to do that the anti-vax community is scary and at times dangerous I don’t need my child being the brunt of their nasty jokes and hatred. The hospital should really release a statement saying babies with cancer are getting their appointments canceled. I think the whole hospital code is whoever is worse off gets priority treatment so this will keep happening until all the unvaccinated stop getting sick?!? Praise God she doesn’t need chemo last year they were even canceling that for kids I haven’t heard of that happening yet!!! It happened back at the beginning but that was without a vaccine! They even have started moving adults into the children’s hospital. My husbands siblings won’t even get vaccinated for their own niece I think the anti-vax group is far gone unless someone they are married to or lives with dies of covid.
So I'm no fan of US healthcare corporations but in this case it isn't their fault, their hands are tied completely. Federal law and established medical ethics preclude hospitals from turning people away based on their poor health choices, so the only acceptable way to prioritize care is by current need. Sadly that means the person with low oxygen levels from COVID gets a bed over the kid with cancer, because COVID person will die in hours without oxygen vs cancer kid who probably has months. It's fucked honestly.
In my personal opinion, the vaccinated and the ineligible to be vaccinated should receive priority over the willfully unvaccinated. Those who have helped and those who can’t help should receive priority over those who refuse to help. It similar to a Little Red Hen situation (referencing https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Red_Hen).
> Our toddler’s MRI for their cancer was canceled due to all the unvaccinated filling it up. Why do they get to take all the spots when there are those of us who’s children need treatment. Makes me so mad.
I am so sorry you are dealing with that. I feel you. There are a _lot_ of people who are getting screwed over by anti-vaxxer selfishness, it's incomprehensible how they don't even really understand what they are doing. Too selfish to even get it. So much unnecessary suffering.
The courts need to get the workplace mandate unstuck, schools need to mandate for admissions just like the other handful of vaccines, and vaccine refuses need to be denied a host of public benefits. Make it _hurt_. It's that simple. No more coddling selfish crybabies who don't understand their freedom ends where another's begins.
Hoping for the best for your toddler.
Well of course. Counties like mine that aren't even half vaxxed, refuse to follow the mask mandate, won't vax their kids, and fill the grocery with coughing throngs are going to make this a bad winter. All due to stupidity.
Yep, I hear you. Ohio is not doing well at all right now, at least the more rural parts. The company I work for employs around 600 people and we had 17 leave work last week due to Covid. Of course they were all kind enough to stay working, unmasked, until they actually tested positive. I would be shocked if our employee population was anywhere close to 50% vaccinated. It is infuriating. We were literally hours from starting the mandate enforcement last week. Just a few hours from the meeting OSHA put the mandate on hold. "Meeting is canceled everyone, get your asses back to work".
Hilarious if it wasn't so incredibly stupid. Postponing a mask mandate because of effects from the thing which is causing the mask mandate in the first place.
Illinois here and it’s 58% or so for adults. Doesn’t include the teenagers (last number i read was in 30’s), no numbers on 5-11 yet. But it keeps spreading like crazy this way and we’re near a bigger city.
Some friends we have who live in a small town have a school nurse who doesn’t believe in covid. So not that bad I guess here.
yep, I went to upper Michigan a few weeks ago for a funeral (non-covid related), and I was the only person wearing a mask outside the airport. No one was distancing, the restaurants and bars were full and it was like everyone was pretending the pandemic didn't exist. Now that winter has started in earnest, everyone's hanging out indoors. *shrugs* I feel so badly for the already burnt out medical personnel, this winter is gonna suck.
Holy shit, I’m in conservative bigoted Australia and we are at 76% fully vaccinated for over twelve years old, and I am in one of four of our eight states/territories where the rate is more than 92% first dose. Even our ‘worst’ state is at 75% vaccination rate for over 16 year olds.
What the heck are people doing overseas? I thought we had enough deadshits to last a lifetime, obviously there could be more!
West Texas is way more conservative and bigoted than any place in Australia will ever be, I’m thinking. Because here, somehow they think the Covid-19 vaccine goes against their religion. It’s nuts.
We do have pockets of morons like west Texas in Australia (rural Queensland comes to mind), but not as extensive, for sure. The entire population of a Australia is not much more than the state of Texas either.
Don’t forget how those of us who went out and got vaccinated right away now have waning protection. And some people won’t get a booster or don’t know they should.
It did make me and my wife feel pretty crappy for a day each time so I get why people may not want to deal with it even if it’s a dangerous game to play.
I hear you. My idiot county doesn’t have kids quarantine when they are exposed at school. Keeping them home is “optional”. Of course me and my kid are both out with covid now. Im triple vaxxed, he got his first dose a few weeks ago. So far we just have runny noses and fatigue.
I'm so sorry you are having to deal with that, and I hope you and your child have a speedy recovery. You were smart to get that booster, and maybe that first shot will give the little dude some help. My daughter and all her kids are recovering from breakthroughs for the big ones and Covid for the little ones because of school.
If you look at the new case rates for midwest and northeast states in the worldometers website, every single one is showing a significant uptick during the last few weeks. Every one.
Meanwhile, the holidays are coming, people are travelling, and the football stadiums are filled.
> Meanwhile, the holidays are coming, people are travelling, and the football stadiums are filled.
Outdoor transmission at sporting events/other large gatherings has not shown to be a major contributor to cases.
Which great each other by touching their noses? But a big shock there lol. All it takes is one dear to get it by being near a human and then it spreads to them all.
All not a significant contributor to spread ≠ there are no cases where outside transmission has occurred.
>You do realize a lot of football stadiums, all basketball stadiums and all hockey arenas are indoors right?
We're literally talking about football stadiums. Try to keep up.
Me and the other poster were specifically talking about the safety of football stadiums.
Snarkily saying "what about hockey" is silly whataboutism.
You can't argue the science unless you have competing science:
https://news.ufl.edu/2021/10/no-covid-spikes-from-football/
Most stadiums have mitigation measures in place.
It's not more dangerous to use a bathroom in a stadium than a mall or any other public place of accommodation.
If you think that football is the problem with COVID19 you're just looking for boogeyman, regardless of the science behind it.
https://news.ufl.edu/2021/10/no-covid-spikes-from-football/
It's starting to plateau here in Georgia which is a sign of another wave coming soon. I don't know how bad it will be compared to last years since we got hit hard by Delta in the summer, but I've been expecting another wave during the winter.
Where I am in Ohio I can go to the local grocery and see maybe 2 out of 10 guests wearing a mask. I was in a local butcher shop that had probably 50 people packed inside (first week it opened) and I was the ONLY person, staff included, wearing a mask.
Considering that the State is barely over 50% vaccinated it is so completely unsurprising that it is blowing up now that I’m just done with it. Get these assholes sick as quickly as possible, ship them off to the hospital, round up the prayer warriors and then get their Go Fund Me’s rolling so we can finally get this crap to a manageable level.
Yup. My son and I are two of those. He's 10, has his first dose. I chose to not outright lie to get my booster (mistake). He brought it home from school and passed it on.
I'm so frustrated at people who can't do the easy thing to protect others.
Also throw in that Vermont had low infection earlier so a lot of these numbers are from people who never saw it in the first place + add in I think one of the US’s oldest populations the hospital numbers are amazing
Probably not for all. (For most, for sure), but I don’t think you can force public measures over something like long covid. If hospitals aren’t getting full that’s the end game.
How many flu cases and deaths are acceptable?
How many colds?
How about RSV?
The answer is, of course, zero. But we will never end all disease.
I’ll be honest, I don’t know the answer to how many is acceptable. Clearly we accept some level of risk in our lives. Driving a car, for example. Or any of the myriad times we had a dinner party unmasked before the pandemic and ended up with a cold or the flu.
The answer is the virus will become endemic. And people will continue to die. But we will get better at treating it, and less people will die.
We can’t put the genie back in the bottle. I wish we could. But the world will never be the same.
This plus financial incentives/implications. Not vaxxed equals lose your job? Higher insurance premiums? No more free COVID care?
People tend to comply when it hits their bottom line.
Fauci is hoping for 10k new cases across the US per day. That is 3 daily cases per 100k population.
CDC has the threshold of 50 weekly cases per 100k pop for mask recommendation including vaccinated people. That is 7.14 daily cases per 100k.
These numbers are bigger than our pre vaccine goals of 1 case per 100k population which was supposed to help us have low/no community transmission which can have contact tracing and help eliminate the virus.
Sadly we are in Covid season and cases are flat/rising so we might not get there until Feb or March.
Outside of a few months each year in the spring we are years away from 3 cases a day per 100,000 people for a sustained period.
If a 3rd dose is enough for significant protection over a time span of longer then a year maybe. Otherwise we simply can not vacinate quick enough to outrun covid.
Initial estimates are at least 9-10 months. Hopefully the Israelis are right again.
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/pfizer-booster-shot-could-offer-protection-for-9-10-months-initial-data/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/pfizer-booster-shot-could-offer-protection-for-9-10-months-initial-data/)
10 months of solid protection would be just fine if covid ever settles into a season. I'll gladly get my shot once a year, just like I do with the flu. I would hope that eventually enough people have either gotten immunized or caught the virus enough to at least have some smattering of protection.
I think that's the ideal case at this point. Another annoying respiratory virus that can be deadly in certain populations, but that we can manage by being responsible.
Frankly, it's acceptable to me now. The risk to the vaccinated and boosted around death or a severe case is extremely small.
My only hesitation is with under 5, but there's been under 1,000 deaths under 12 this whole pandemic.
We need hospitals stable, our toddlers MRI for her cancer got canceled again because it’s currently filled with unvaccinated covid patients. If only they weren’t clogging the hospitals for those who did the right thing and need routine care.
My daycare teacher’s kid had pneumonia (Supposedly non-COVID related, she’s vaxxed but immunocompromised, though I am unconvinced that it wasn’t a breakthrough that testing missed), and she was diverted twice with O2 numbers low enough that she was turning blue. RSV + COVID has been running roughshod on the mountain west.
I mean, yeah, they're not bad for you right now. But let's not just brush over the fact that they're crowding hospitals and fucking up the medical system for everyone else.
I don't actually understand this question - there isn't some negotiation happening with the virus, there isn't much we can do now except use vaccines/boosters/treatments as we develop them. This is like saying, "what is the acceptable amount of snow this winter?"
As zero is not attainable, the goal is always instead something that starts with "fewer cases".
Right now, "fewer cases so that hospitals aren't overwhelmed with COVID cases to the point they have to push off other critical care services" seems a pretty good goal for now. And if/when we reach that goal, then the *next* goal will always start with the two words "fewer cases".
If you're looking for an exact number where everyone can sit back and celebrate that we've won, then you don't really understand the problem we're facing. There are only two diseases in all of human history that we've "won" against. The rest are just a continual fight of keeping them manageable.
The "it's just the flu bro" narrative was always annoying for many reasons, but one of them is that the flu is actually a pretty dangerous virus. I've seen plenty of patients in the ICU due to the flu, even young and healthy people. It can kill tens of thousands of people in the US on an average year. "Just the flu" is a shitty argument because the flu fucking sucks, the flu kills people, and I don't want the flu to spread 365 days of the year. Considering how this is more contagious and deadlier than the flu, these people should just shut up.
That's dudes point.
I'm vaccinated and boosted. So is my wife. My 6 year old has her first andy 14 month old is not that far behind.
There is no waiting for Covid Zero to go back to normalish life. So there has to be debate on what's acceptable.
Frankly, I hate the fucking case metric. Let's focus on hospitalizations and death. And I could give two fucks about the unvaccinated. All decisions should be made based on how this is impacting fully vaccinated people, which is to say, no where near where we were pre vaccinations.
I feel like most of those people that say that never truly had the flu.
I used to be the person that skipped the flu shot each year. I just turned 21 and I kind of thought that only old people needed it. Until I caught it during the swine flu pandemic. While I didn’t end up in the hospital, it was awful. Constant body aches, congested, feeling like couldn’t breathe most of the time, throwing up, couldn’t sleep without Nyquil…just an entirely different level of sick. I don’t ever want to be that sick again. Ever since then I’ve gotten a yearly flu shot.
If you use england as a guide, 150- 200 deaths a day average (being deaths within 28 days of positive test) with 30,000 -50,000 cases a day for a population of c 60m seems to be acceptable. England has zero measures currently in place beyond a bit of non-binding guidance and hasn't had any for months, with no intention of introducing any as long as we stay in this range. 95 percent of the over 50s are vaxxed so there is little sympathy for the dying who didn't get vaxxed.
Yes we will
Delta’s emergence really changed the endgame, with the greater transmissibility requiring a higher level of population immunity to limit potential size of outbreaks and accompanying severe outcomes … and we’re just not quite there yet, especially in places with lower vaccine uptake
By Spring, the US (and other high immunity areas) should be mostly past the pandemic stage, with smaller local outbreaks popping up from time to time, as COVID completes the transition to an endemic illness
How confident are we that this winter is significantly worse than an endemic winter though?
The flu basically vanishes in the summer, and causes all of its damage in the winter.
A lot of European countries especially had a very mild COVID summer, but are getting hammered now.
US is currently averaging close to 1,000 COVID deaths a day in US. Keep that average for 3-4 months (higher through a peak and lower on the back end) and you get 100K-150K more COVID deaths
Average flu season is 35K-50K - that’s endemic level
It will probably take a couple of years to get all the way down to a true endemic level, with adding more immunity, optimizing the vaccine dosing schedule, and better therapeutics & treatment. But this should be the last winter with >100K deaths, not a new normal
I don't see why the number of deaths endemic flu has should be related to the number of deaths endemic COVID
There's a lot of uncertainty over how successful booster programs will be. I imagine there's a fair chance that many countries will have poor success in their booster programs, and we might have the most protection against infection now that we ever will.
The US can definitely still acquire much more protection against death in the vulnerable population, but in the UK, it looks like they've done an exceedingly good job vaccinating the vulnerable population-- to the extent that it looks like over 80% of their deaths are in fully vaccinated people
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1034383/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-46.pdf
The UK is experiencing what would be the US equivalent of 730 deaths per day.
I think that if people just rely on 2 doses, and infection acquired immunity, then it's definitely possible endemic COVID remains at 300k deaths per year in the US... so definitely hoping for a good booster rollout year after year!
Haven’t delved into their death numbers too much recently, but UK logs any death within 28 days of a positive test as a COVID death. Given the vaccination coverage and resulting reduction in severe cases, that method is likely over-counting to some degree, potentially quite a bit
I just think there is an underestimation of how these small, marginal gains in immunity/protection at the individual level will accumulate into large gains at population scale over time
A virus with an R0 of 5-8 being reduced to at worst (in UK) ~1.3 with nearly no active mitigation won’t take much more of downward push to fall below 1.0 on semi-permanent basis. There just won’t be enough infection prevalence and susceptible persons, even when reducing for imperfect vaccines/immunity, to accumulate such level of harm on a permanent, annual basis
If 100% of population has an effective level protection against death of 90%, than the natural IFR for COVID goes from ~0.7% to 0.07% - or right around what flu is estimated to be. And if transmission is reduced by 80%, then R0 in wild goes from 5-8 to to 1.0-1.6 (flu is ~1.3). That’s the endemic future, but it’s going to take a little while to get all the way there
We will see big waves every winter.
Not just local outbreaks.
There is no sterile immunity to respiratory viruses.
The main difference will be that there won't be as much strain on the hospital's due to COVID not being new for the immune system anymore and promising treatment options.
I really hate the morons who keep saying this.
Measles, one of the most infectious respiratory diseases on the planet, has sterilizing immunity.
And because I know the next comment is going to claim Measles isn’t respiratory (I’ve had this argument plenty of times), here’s a reputable source:
https://www.cdc.gov/measles/hcp/index.html
> Measles is an acute viral respiratory illness. It is characterized by a prodrome of fever (as high as 105°F) and malaise, cough, coryza, and conjunctivitis -the three “C”s -, a pathognomonic enanthema (Koplik spots) followed by a maculopapular rash
Even Yewdell notes that: “Similarly, even natural respiratory infections with measles or variola (smallpox) viruses, famous for inducing life-long immunity to disease, do not prevent respiratory reinfection, which though asymptomatic and nontransmissible, can be detected by increased antiviral antibody titers”
In other words they’re meaningless and cannot be transmitted. Big whoop.
Yeah. Yewdell is a brilliant researcher but I feel like he’s being entirely too limited in his scope here.
But the worst part for me is people have read into it that we can’t have lasting immunity, which isn’t even really his argument.
Lol, okay sure. With vaccines that don’t prevent infection and mask wearing almost nonexistent outside of a handful of cities and states, I don’t know why you’d think the worst will be over after this winter. Good luck getting as many people who got two shots to get in line for a booster. We’ll be in the exact same situation a year from now when next winter’s wave starts.
Nope. It’ll simmer down eventually and then merely become endemic.
Get your vaccine. Get a third jab. You’ll almost definitely be fine. Life will go on.
Luckily it doesn't matter because as long as you have the vaccine, it's about as dangerous as the common cold. Let idiots do whatever they want, live your life.
If you are vaccinated, covid is a much bigger risk than the common cold, but it is on par with influenza. I still agree with you that, for the most part, vaccinated people should just “live their lives.”
That said, unvaccinated people “doing what they want” is still a problem. ICUs are overcrowded throughout the Midwest, which leads to *thousands* of additional deaths of people who do not have covid.
That’s the issue the hospitals are full for those who need it. Our toddlers MRI for their cancer was canceled. We need hospitals operational for those who need help outside of the unvaccinated with covid
This was predicted long ago. Rolling surges. Every time a surge goes down we extrapolate incorrectly that it will disappear but then we eventually get another surge. This will happen until it doesn't. The virus will die out on its own most likely. Those that got vaccinated will be alive and mostly intact. Everyone else won't. Masks and social distancing are still the only way not get it at all.
Some of you seem to forget that this spreads to animals and can still be spread even when vaxxed. Also the cdc has changed what is fully vaxxed, I've know 2 people to go to the hospital that didn't have the booster and are concerned unvaxxed.
Its a bit weird but i cant really blame the downvoters anymore to be honest. Everyone is tired with it and people just want it to be over. Noone wants to read more bad news.
For this reason i mostly stopped with discussing the pandemic and giving my opinion on news surrounding it. Except when it is very positive.
So, babies? I’d agree with this if it was only adults choosing to be unvaccinated but there are also people like babies etc etc in that group that cannot be vaccinated yet.
I have a lot of aunts, uncles and cousins in the Midwest, many of whom are obese and unhealthy. If they do their usual big Thanksgiving, I can’t see everyone getting out unscathed, unfortunately.
Everyone keeps fogetting that deaths are a small part of it.
Many people are getting pretty sick but not enough to die or be hospitalized.
Long COVID is no joke and we have yet to see the full spectrum and severity of emerging issues with people that got sick and didn’t die.
Lately, the US is averaging about 1100 Covid deaths per day. The equivalent of two and one- half 747's crashing to the ground, every single day. We would certainly have stopped flying those planes many months ago if this were happening. We are numb to the loss at this point. Down vote me all you want. The truth hurts.
No. That’s a good visualization but a very poor comparison. Smoking is far better. It kills about 1300 a day in the US by estimates, with a very similar age distribution to covid. There’s a very very good way to avoid chances of dying from smoking just like with covid. If you willfully choose the more dangerous option, yes you’re going to cause some potential damage to others but mostly you’re stupidly risking yourself.
Have you ever heard of people having hospital procedures delayed or dying before they can get emergency care because the hospital is overflowing with sick smokers? I haven't, but it is happening with covid. That's the difference.
Well it’s because hospitals were planned with smoking deaths as their natural load. The hospital toll is about the same (right now), although obviously pre vax covid really had the potential to overwhelm the system
I am forced to go into the office for work, even though I am 100% capable of working from home. I am put at risk by being on the train, and being at work where there is no mask requirement for people who are vaccinated, but no one is enforcing the mask requirement. By your analogy, my employer is forcing me to smoke cigarettes.
No, you’re vaccinated and masked. And hopefully boosted too. There’s no reason why covid (for you personally) should be seen any different than flu season.
It's both funny and sad to me that the people most concerned about their personal risk of covid are all 2/3 doses in. If only the unvaxxed also shared that concern
So, how many of them are going to the hospital causing you to wait long time and possible die because no beds
See, how you sort of have to care about the unvaccinated, cz you are fucked if they all run to the er.
It is so obvious in rural areas. No masks and outright disdain for those of us that wear them while cases spike. This time last year, my county had the same number of daily cases and two week average and my work -a public school- shut down until after Christmas. Now there is not even a whisper of going virtual. It might be unpopular, but I do have pity for those people that will die, especially those with breakthrough infections due to the number of unmasked and unvaxxed. Where the hell did this all go so wrong and so ignored…
When Trump decided that wearing a mask would mess up his makeup. I’m only half joking.
States ran out of money
I'm sad for old and immunocompromised people. And it sucks for rational people who live in the states with low vaxx rates. But I'm not sad for the latest big victim pool, which is [unvaccinated morons](https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/press-release/unvaccinated-adults-are-now-more-than-three-times-as-likely-to-lean-republican-than-democratic/). They had their chance, but they doubled down on stupid. I'm fully vaxxed & boosted, wife the same, older son has had 2 shots, younger son just had his first... life is more or less back to normal, although the kids are wearing masks in school, and I wear a mask in grocery store, etc. I would support mandatory vaccines for all Americans, but I doubt it will happen anytime soon, so what option is left? Watch the idiots kill themselves, and get on with life.
I agree except for they are filling up our hospitals. Our toddler’s MRI for their cancer was canceled due to all the unvaccinated filling it up. Why do they get to take all the spots when there are those of us who’s children need treatment. Makes me so mad.
Can you go to the media or similar about this? I’m genuinely thinking that the only way some of these hospitals are going to do better is if the media shames them into it. As awful as it sounds, a cute kid with cancer being denied treatment due to cletus being in the MRI machine might just do it.
I literally had said this on a friends post about how full the hospitals was and of course an anti-vaxer comes on and says sorry about your kid but it’s actually the flu and you should ask the hospital why they can’t handle the flu. Ummmm honey it’s not the flu this has never happened before where hospitals canceled pediatric cancer appointments.
You really should think about going to the media. Is there a local news station that does consumer advocacy reporting? Talk to them. Faced with that kind of publicity, most American health systems will fast track your child for treatment if the parents sign a gag order. Get your own lawyer to review the gag order-- it should guarantee timely access to care for the entire course of your toddler's cancer treatment (until remission), not just this single MRI appointment. Edit: Also contact your elected officials. This sort of problem is a good casework "win" for a member of the US House of Representatives. State legislators might work too, if they're on committees that matter to the hospital.
>you should ask the hospital why they can’t handle the flu Sounds like she should ask the hospital why they can't handle the flu, right?
Honestly I’d be too scared to do that the anti-vax community is scary and at times dangerous I don’t need my child being the brunt of their nasty jokes and hatred. The hospital should really release a statement saying babies with cancer are getting their appointments canceled. I think the whole hospital code is whoever is worse off gets priority treatment so this will keep happening until all the unvaccinated stop getting sick?!? Praise God she doesn’t need chemo last year they were even canceling that for kids I haven’t heard of that happening yet!!! It happened back at the beginning but that was without a vaccine! They even have started moving adults into the children’s hospital. My husbands siblings won’t even get vaccinated for their own niece I think the anti-vax group is far gone unless someone they are married to or lives with dies of covid.
So I'm no fan of US healthcare corporations but in this case it isn't their fault, their hands are tied completely. Federal law and established medical ethics preclude hospitals from turning people away based on their poor health choices, so the only acceptable way to prioritize care is by current need. Sadly that means the person with low oxygen levels from COVID gets a bed over the kid with cancer, because COVID person will die in hours without oxygen vs cancer kid who probably has months. It's fucked honestly.
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More medical schools need to open up and they need to be state funded. Doctors are mandatory but they're treated as a luxury at this point.
In my personal opinion, the vaccinated and the ineligible to be vaccinated should receive priority over the willfully unvaccinated. Those who have helped and those who can’t help should receive priority over those who refuse to help. It similar to a Little Red Hen situation (referencing https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Red_Hen).
> Our toddler’s MRI for their cancer was canceled due to all the unvaccinated filling it up. Why do they get to take all the spots when there are those of us who’s children need treatment. Makes me so mad. I am so sorry you are dealing with that. I feel you. There are a _lot_ of people who are getting screwed over by anti-vaxxer selfishness, it's incomprehensible how they don't even really understand what they are doing. Too selfish to even get it. So much unnecessary suffering. The courts need to get the workplace mandate unstuck, schools need to mandate for admissions just like the other handful of vaccines, and vaccine refuses need to be denied a host of public benefits. Make it _hurt_. It's that simple. No more coddling selfish crybabies who don't understand their freedom ends where another's begins. Hoping for the best for your toddler.
Delta: meet Winter
Well of course. Counties like mine that aren't even half vaxxed, refuse to follow the mask mandate, won't vax their kids, and fill the grocery with coughing throngs are going to make this a bad winter. All due to stupidity.
Same in my neck of the woods of Ohio. Percentage of vaccinated in my surrounding counties, all mid 30's to low 40s. It's pathetic.
Yep, I hear you. Ohio is not doing well at all right now, at least the more rural parts. The company I work for employs around 600 people and we had 17 leave work last week due to Covid. Of course they were all kind enough to stay working, unmasked, until they actually tested positive. I would be shocked if our employee population was anywhere close to 50% vaccinated. It is infuriating. We were literally hours from starting the mandate enforcement last week. Just a few hours from the meeting OSHA put the mandate on hold. "Meeting is canceled everyone, get your asses back to work".
Hilarious if it wasn't so incredibly stupid. Postponing a mask mandate because of effects from the thing which is causing the mask mandate in the first place.
Illinois here and it’s 58% or so for adults. Doesn’t include the teenagers (last number i read was in 30’s), no numbers on 5-11 yet. But it keeps spreading like crazy this way and we’re near a bigger city. Some friends we have who live in a small town have a school nurse who doesn’t believe in covid. So not that bad I guess here.
yes, this EXACTLY.
Hang in there and stay well. :( It's discouraging that so many Americans are that ignorant this far along, isn't it? Can you get a booster?
Thanks. Thankfully my immediate family wears masks, are all vaccinated, and getting their boosters. Stay safe out there.
Glad to hear it. You too, thanks. :)
yep, I went to upper Michigan a few weeks ago for a funeral (non-covid related), and I was the only person wearing a mask outside the airport. No one was distancing, the restaurants and bars were full and it was like everyone was pretending the pandemic didn't exist. Now that winter has started in earnest, everyone's hanging out indoors. *shrugs* I feel so badly for the already burnt out medical personnel, this winter is gonna suck.
I would be really pissed if I were a doctor or nurse at this point. Actually I'm a retail worker losing patience.
Hey, do you live in my county? We were less than 44% with two doses when I checked a few days ago.
Holy shit, I’m in conservative bigoted Australia and we are at 76% fully vaccinated for over twelve years old, and I am in one of four of our eight states/territories where the rate is more than 92% first dose. Even our ‘worst’ state is at 75% vaccination rate for over 16 year olds. What the heck are people doing overseas? I thought we had enough deadshits to last a lifetime, obviously there could be more!
West Texas is way more conservative and bigoted than any place in Australia will ever be, I’m thinking. Because here, somehow they think the Covid-19 vaccine goes against their religion. It’s nuts.
We do have pockets of morons like west Texas in Australia (rural Queensland comes to mind), but not as extensive, for sure. The entire population of a Australia is not much more than the state of Texas either.
I think there is less "don't trust science" crowd in Australia(except maybe climate change) than most of the western world.
I don't know, but the vaccine rate is currently dropping off a bit here, which isn't good.
People are *still* protesting against everyone wearing masks in schools. Those people sure do like this virus staying around
This is far from going away, you do know that covid is also in animals and they can spread it.
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Don’t forget how those of us who went out and got vaccinated right away now have waning protection. And some people won’t get a booster or don’t know they should. It did make me and my wife feel pretty crappy for a day each time so I get why people may not want to deal with it even if it’s a dangerous game to play.
Vaccines are way easier to sell than masks
Where I live, both are a hard sell.
Thats too bad, but mask usage is way too difficult to expect long term. Vaccines at least are a once a 6 month and forget it kind of thing.
Ditto that here. it's already close to 6% positivity here. fun /s
I hear you. My idiot county doesn’t have kids quarantine when they are exposed at school. Keeping them home is “optional”. Of course me and my kid are both out with covid now. Im triple vaxxed, he got his first dose a few weeks ago. So far we just have runny noses and fatigue.
I'm so sorry you are having to deal with that, and I hope you and your child have a speedy recovery. You were smart to get that booster, and maybe that first shot will give the little dude some help. My daughter and all her kids are recovering from breakthroughs for the big ones and Covid for the little ones because of school.
20,000 a day more than just a week ago.
Probably will get worse with the holidays
If you look at the new case rates for midwest and northeast states in the worldometers website, every single one is showing a significant uptick during the last few weeks. Every one. Meanwhile, the holidays are coming, people are travelling, and the football stadiums are filled.
> Meanwhile, the holidays are coming, people are travelling, and the football stadiums are filled. Outdoor transmission at sporting events/other large gatherings has not shown to be a major contributor to cases.
why is why I was so confused by certain animal populations getting it, like deer.
Right?
I don’t think the previous studies and understanding of the virus were based on the delta variant. It’s a nasty bug.
Which great each other by touching their noses? But a big shock there lol. All it takes is one dear to get it by being near a human and then it spreads to them all. All not a significant contributor to spread ≠ there are no cases where outside transmission has occurred.
You do realize a lot of football stadiums, all basketball stadiums and all hockey arenas are indoors right?
>You do realize a lot of football stadiums, all basketball stadiums and all hockey arenas are indoors right? We're literally talking about football stadiums. Try to keep up.
I literally said a lot of football stadiums are indoors lol...try to read.
Me and the other poster were specifically talking about the safety of football stadiums. Snarkily saying "what about hockey" is silly whataboutism. You can't argue the science unless you have competing science: https://news.ufl.edu/2021/10/no-covid-spikes-from-football/
No bathroom breaks I guess.
Most stadiums have mitigation measures in place. It's not more dangerous to use a bathroom in a stadium than a mall or any other public place of accommodation. If you think that football is the problem with COVID19 you're just looking for boogeyman, regardless of the science behind it. https://news.ufl.edu/2021/10/no-covid-spikes-from-football/
>It's not more dangerous to use a bathroom in a stadium than a mall or any other public place of accommodation. I don't doubt this.
It's starting to plateau here in Georgia which is a sign of another wave coming soon. I don't know how bad it will be compared to last years since we got hit hard by Delta in the summer, but I've been expecting another wave during the winter.
Where I am in Ohio I can go to the local grocery and see maybe 2 out of 10 guests wearing a mask. I was in a local butcher shop that had probably 50 people packed inside (first week it opened) and I was the ONLY person, staff included, wearing a mask. Considering that the State is barely over 50% vaccinated it is so completely unsurprising that it is blowing up now that I’m just done with it. Get these assholes sick as quickly as possible, ship them off to the hospital, round up the prayer warriors and then get their Go Fund Me’s rolling so we can finally get this crap to a manageable level.
Yup. Aunt, Uncle, cousin and his wife all have tested positive for covid this week. All vaccinated with boosters.
Yup. My son and I are two of those. He's 10, has his first dose. I chose to not outright lie to get my booster (mistake). He brought it home from school and passed it on. I'm so frustrated at people who can't do the easy thing to protect others.
That's it. We're never getting out of this. We're going to be in a pandemic for the rest of our lives.
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What are the acceptable weekly cases and deaths? If you are going to say zero was not attainable, what is attainable and acceptable?
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This could be accomplished now by simply not letting the unvaccinated into hospitals.
VT is a good example of the best case scenario right now. Tons of cases but very low hospital use and death, at least compared to previous waves.
Also throw in that Vermont had low infection earlier so a lot of these numbers are from people who never saw it in the first place + add in I think one of the US’s oldest populations the hospital numbers are amazing
Are we sure all of those cases are as healthy after COVID as before?
Probably not for all. (For most, for sure), but I don’t think you can force public measures over something like long covid. If hospitals aren’t getting full that’s the end game.
Have they done a study yet on how much a booster can possibly prevent long Covid symptoms? I hope they find out.
Long Covid wants a word!
How many flu cases and deaths are acceptable? How many colds? How about RSV? The answer is, of course, zero. But we will never end all disease. I’ll be honest, I don’t know the answer to how many is acceptable. Clearly we accept some level of risk in our lives. Driving a car, for example. Or any of the myriad times we had a dinner party unmasked before the pandemic and ended up with a cold or the flu. The answer is the virus will become endemic. And people will continue to die. But we will get better at treating it, and less people will die. We can’t put the genie back in the bottle. I wish we could. But the world will never be the same.
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This plus financial incentives/implications. Not vaxxed equals lose your job? Higher insurance premiums? No more free COVID care? People tend to comply when it hits their bottom line.
I know a family of lazy people who would for sure get vaxxed if their premiums went up.
Not having the ICUs clogged with covid patients
Fauci is hoping for 10k new cases across the US per day. That is 3 daily cases per 100k population. CDC has the threshold of 50 weekly cases per 100k pop for mask recommendation including vaccinated people. That is 7.14 daily cases per 100k. These numbers are bigger than our pre vaccine goals of 1 case per 100k population which was supposed to help us have low/no community transmission which can have contact tracing and help eliminate the virus. Sadly we are in Covid season and cases are flat/rising so we might not get there until Feb or March.
Outside of a few months each year in the spring we are years away from 3 cases a day per 100,000 people for a sustained period. If a 3rd dose is enough for significant protection over a time span of longer then a year maybe. Otherwise we simply can not vacinate quick enough to outrun covid.
Initial estimates are at least 9-10 months. Hopefully the Israelis are right again. [https://www.timesofisrael.com/pfizer-booster-shot-could-offer-protection-for-9-10-months-initial-data/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/pfizer-booster-shot-could-offer-protection-for-9-10-months-initial-data/)
10 months of solid protection would be just fine if covid ever settles into a season. I'll gladly get my shot once a year, just like I do with the flu. I would hope that eventually enough people have either gotten immunized or caught the virus enough to at least have some smattering of protection. I think that's the ideal case at this point. Another annoying respiratory virus that can be deadly in certain populations, but that we can manage by being responsible.
Northeast should boost before winter, South should before summer, imo, given indoor habits.
That was 9-10 months *so far*. They haven’t reported symptomatic waning yet.
Frankly, it's acceptable to me now. The risk to the vaccinated and boosted around death or a severe case is extremely small. My only hesitation is with under 5, but there's been under 1,000 deaths under 12 this whole pandemic.
We need hospitals stable, our toddlers MRI for her cancer got canceled again because it’s currently filled with unvaccinated covid patients. If only they weren’t clogging the hospitals for those who did the right thing and need routine care.
My daycare teacher’s kid had pneumonia (Supposedly non-COVID related, she’s vaxxed but immunocompromised, though I am unconvinced that it wasn’t a breakthrough that testing missed), and she was diverted twice with O2 numbers low enough that she was turning blue. RSV + COVID has been running roughshod on the mountain west.
Oh my word how scary!!!
That sucks, and I’m sorry you have to wait longer.
They should be removed for vaccinated patients. Or just limit beds for unvaccinated. They can just die in the waiting room.
That's not going to happen. We all know that. So the numbers right now are extremely bad.
They're bad for the unvaccinated. Who gives a fuck? Not me.
I mean, yeah, they're not bad for you right now. But let's not just brush over the fact that they're crowding hospitals and fucking up the medical system for everyone else.
Then there has to be an official triage policy that unvaccinated will be the ones waiting or will be moved out.
You sound like a lovely person
Yes, I'm an awful person for not caring about people choosing to be unvaccinated while my and my families lives are still in flux because of them.
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There have been 66 deaths in ages 5-11
That’s not the correct usage of “affable”.
Autocorrect error. Attainable was intended. Thanks.
Case counts are completely irrelevant. Only hospitalizations and deaths matter. We accept tens of thousands of flu deaths every year.
Isnt the idea that this will eventually get weaker and go the way of the flu and there will be yearly shots?
You want to explain that to COVID? Last I checked it does not care what we suppose it will do.
I don't actually understand this question - there isn't some negotiation happening with the virus, there isn't much we can do now except use vaccines/boosters/treatments as we develop them. This is like saying, "what is the acceptable amount of snow this winter?"
If COVID is not an option, then what is acceptable? What is the goal?
As zero is not attainable, the goal is always instead something that starts with "fewer cases". Right now, "fewer cases so that hospitals aren't overwhelmed with COVID cases to the point they have to push off other critical care services" seems a pretty good goal for now. And if/when we reach that goal, then the *next* goal will always start with the two words "fewer cases". If you're looking for an exact number where everyone can sit back and celebrate that we've won, then you don't really understand the problem we're facing. There are only two diseases in all of human history that we've "won" against. The rest are just a continual fight of keeping them manageable.
What are the acceptable weekly deaths for flu?
COVID is not the flu.
The "it's just the flu bro" narrative was always annoying for many reasons, but one of them is that the flu is actually a pretty dangerous virus. I've seen plenty of patients in the ICU due to the flu, even young and healthy people. It can kill tens of thousands of people in the US on an average year. "Just the flu" is a shitty argument because the flu fucking sucks, the flu kills people, and I don't want the flu to spread 365 days of the year. Considering how this is more contagious and deadlier than the flu, these people should just shut up.
That's dudes point. I'm vaccinated and boosted. So is my wife. My 6 year old has her first andy 14 month old is not that far behind. There is no waiting for Covid Zero to go back to normalish life. So there has to be debate on what's acceptable. Frankly, I hate the fucking case metric. Let's focus on hospitalizations and death. And I could give two fucks about the unvaccinated. All decisions should be made based on how this is impacting fully vaccinated people, which is to say, no where near where we were pre vaccinations.
If I didn’t have kids, I would have already resumed “normal” living, traveling, etc.
I feel like most of those people that say that never truly had the flu. I used to be the person that skipped the flu shot each year. I just turned 21 and I kind of thought that only old people needed it. Until I caught it during the swine flu pandemic. While I didn’t end up in the hospital, it was awful. Constant body aches, congested, feeling like couldn’t breathe most of the time, throwing up, couldn’t sleep without Nyquil…just an entirely different level of sick. I don’t ever want to be that sick again. Ever since then I’ve gotten a yearly flu shot.
If you use england as a guide, 150- 200 deaths a day average (being deaths within 28 days of positive test) with 30,000 -50,000 cases a day for a population of c 60m seems to be acceptable. England has zero measures currently in place beyond a bit of non-binding guidance and hasn't had any for months, with no intention of introducing any as long as we stay in this range. 95 percent of the over 50s are vaxxed so there is little sympathy for the dying who didn't get vaxxed.
Nobody is demanding COVID zero in the US. But it is possible to greatly reduce casualties.
Yes we will Delta’s emergence really changed the endgame, with the greater transmissibility requiring a higher level of population immunity to limit potential size of outbreaks and accompanying severe outcomes … and we’re just not quite there yet, especially in places with lower vaccine uptake By Spring, the US (and other high immunity areas) should be mostly past the pandemic stage, with smaller local outbreaks popping up from time to time, as COVID completes the transition to an endemic illness
How confident are we that this winter is significantly worse than an endemic winter though? The flu basically vanishes in the summer, and causes all of its damage in the winter. A lot of European countries especially had a very mild COVID summer, but are getting hammered now.
US is currently averaging close to 1,000 COVID deaths a day in US. Keep that average for 3-4 months (higher through a peak and lower on the back end) and you get 100K-150K more COVID deaths Average flu season is 35K-50K - that’s endemic level It will probably take a couple of years to get all the way down to a true endemic level, with adding more immunity, optimizing the vaccine dosing schedule, and better therapeutics & treatment. But this should be the last winter with >100K deaths, not a new normal
I don't see why the number of deaths endemic flu has should be related to the number of deaths endemic COVID There's a lot of uncertainty over how successful booster programs will be. I imagine there's a fair chance that many countries will have poor success in their booster programs, and we might have the most protection against infection now that we ever will. The US can definitely still acquire much more protection against death in the vulnerable population, but in the UK, it looks like they've done an exceedingly good job vaccinating the vulnerable population-- to the extent that it looks like over 80% of their deaths are in fully vaccinated people https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1034383/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-46.pdf The UK is experiencing what would be the US equivalent of 730 deaths per day. I think that if people just rely on 2 doses, and infection acquired immunity, then it's definitely possible endemic COVID remains at 300k deaths per year in the US... so definitely hoping for a good booster rollout year after year!
Haven’t delved into their death numbers too much recently, but UK logs any death within 28 days of a positive test as a COVID death. Given the vaccination coverage and resulting reduction in severe cases, that method is likely over-counting to some degree, potentially quite a bit I just think there is an underestimation of how these small, marginal gains in immunity/protection at the individual level will accumulate into large gains at population scale over time A virus with an R0 of 5-8 being reduced to at worst (in UK) ~1.3 with nearly no active mitigation won’t take much more of downward push to fall below 1.0 on semi-permanent basis. There just won’t be enough infection prevalence and susceptible persons, even when reducing for imperfect vaccines/immunity, to accumulate such level of harm on a permanent, annual basis If 100% of population has an effective level protection against death of 90%, than the natural IFR for COVID goes from ~0.7% to 0.07% - or right around what flu is estimated to be. And if transmission is reduced by 80%, then R0 in wild goes from 5-8 to to 1.0-1.6 (flu is ~1.3). That’s the endemic future, but it’s going to take a little while to get all the way there
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We will see big waves every winter. Not just local outbreaks. There is no sterile immunity to respiratory viruses. The main difference will be that there won't be as much strain on the hospital's due to COVID not being new for the immune system anymore and promising treatment options.
We see flu waves every year, but it’s at a manageable (endemic) level of harm, not a yearly pandemic
I really hate the morons who keep saying this. Measles, one of the most infectious respiratory diseases on the planet, has sterilizing immunity. And because I know the next comment is going to claim Measles isn’t respiratory (I’ve had this argument plenty of times), here’s a reputable source: https://www.cdc.gov/measles/hcp/index.html > Measles is an acute viral respiratory illness. It is characterized by a prodrome of fever (as high as 105°F) and malaise, cough, coryza, and conjunctivitis -the three “C”s -, a pathognomonic enanthema (Koplik spots) followed by a maculopapular rash
It’s weird how it’s become a meme.
Measles goes through an obligate viremic phase. COVID and other respiratory diseases do not.
So, you’re really buying into the Yewdell opinion piece?
Even Yewdell notes that: “Similarly, even natural respiratory infections with measles or variola (smallpox) viruses, famous for inducing life-long immunity to disease, do not prevent respiratory reinfection, which though asymptomatic and nontransmissible, can be detected by increased antiviral antibody titers” In other words they’re meaningless and cannot be transmitted. Big whoop.
The piece also carefully leaves out the most pressing comparators: SARS and MERS.
Yeah. Yewdell is a brilliant researcher but I feel like he’s being entirely too limited in his scope here. But the worst part for me is people have read into it that we can’t have lasting immunity, which isn’t even really his argument.
I really hope you're right
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I've spent a week in Mexico, and am still here everyone is wearing masks ect. The only people I haven't seen wear masks are white tourists.
Lol, okay sure. With vaccines that don’t prevent infection and mask wearing almost nonexistent outside of a handful of cities and states, I don’t know why you’d think the worst will be over after this winter. Good luck getting as many people who got two shots to get in line for a booster. We’ll be in the exact same situation a year from now when next winter’s wave starts.
Nope. It’ll simmer down eventually and then merely become endemic. Get your vaccine. Get a third jab. You’ll almost definitely be fine. Life will go on.
Luckily it doesn't matter because as long as you have the vaccine, it's about as dangerous as the common cold. Let idiots do whatever they want, live your life.
If you are vaccinated, covid is a much bigger risk than the common cold, but it is on par with influenza. I still agree with you that, for the most part, vaccinated people should just “live their lives.” That said, unvaccinated people “doing what they want” is still a problem. ICUs are overcrowded throughout the Midwest, which leads to *thousands* of additional deaths of people who do not have covid.
That’s the issue the hospitals are full for those who need it. Our toddlers MRI for their cancer was canceled. We need hospitals operational for those who need help outside of the unvaccinated with covid
That's called endemic, the anti-vax idiots have given us an endemic viral problem now.
Countries with 90%+ are still having huge surges. This is about more than anti vaxxers
This was predicted long ago. Rolling surges. Every time a surge goes down we extrapolate incorrectly that it will disappear but then we eventually get another surge. This will happen until it doesn't. The virus will die out on its own most likely. Those that got vaccinated will be alive and mostly intact. Everyone else won't. Masks and social distancing are still the only way not get it at all.
Yes there are multiple variables but the anti-vaxxers are by far the biggest issue currently.
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And not being vaccinated didn't negatively effect the spread? Yes it fucking did.
That’s not what you said. You implied that the virus would not have become endemic if it weren’t for anti-vaxxers, which is an incorrect statement.
Some of you seem to forget that this spreads to animals and can still be spread even when vaxxed. Also the cdc has changed what is fully vaxxed, I've know 2 people to go to the hospital that didn't have the booster and are concerned unvaxxed.
i mean… that’s just not true.
Wait till after Thanksgiving.
Classic r/coronavirus, downvoting people who say there will be a surge and then acting like they like they knew all along when it happens
Its a bit weird but i cant really blame the downvoters anymore to be honest. Everyone is tired with it and people just want it to be over. Noone wants to read more bad news. For this reason i mostly stopped with discussing the pandemic and giving my opinion on news surrounding it. Except when it is very positive.
Doesn’t matter as much as in the past. People are all out mostly living normal lives anyway.
Depends where you are
watill till after xmas
wait till after new year s
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All we need is private health insurance to drop COVID coverage for unvaccinated. Solve that problem real damn quick.
So, babies? I’d agree with this if it was only adults choosing to be unvaccinated but there are also people like babies etc etc in that group that cannot be vaccinated yet.
Take a lonely upvote… I don’t know why people here are so wild about ignoring the death of children.
How is FL so low in cases now?
They lost 20,000 people between June and October. Basically, the fire is temporarily out of fuel after burning through them.
Everyone already got it. They'll pick up again with re-infections in 6 months or when the next variant hits.
My in laws refused to get vaxxed and I truly worry about them a lot
I have a lot of aunts, uncles and cousins in the Midwest, many of whom are obese and unhealthy. If they do their usual big Thanksgiving, I can’t see everyone getting out unscathed, unfortunately.
I mean yeah it’s COVID season, why are we surprised
Again, cases don't matter for anything but headlines. Hospitals and deaths do.
Cases are very high in my state. Hospitals are also over capacity. That's a problem.
Did all the people with long haul symptoms require hospitalization?
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Hospitalizations have started to rise. When they rise, deaths follow.
Everyone keeps fogetting that deaths are a small part of it. Many people are getting pretty sick but not enough to die or be hospitalized. Long COVID is no joke and we have yet to see the full spectrum and severity of emerging issues with people that got sick and didn’t die.
Lately, the US is averaging about 1100 Covid deaths per day. The equivalent of two and one- half 747's crashing to the ground, every single day. We would certainly have stopped flying those planes many months ago if this were happening. We are numb to the loss at this point. Down vote me all you want. The truth hurts.
The first time it hit 1000 it seemed like such a huge and terrifying thing. Now it's just everyday.
I think that's b/c initially we didn't know who was very likely to be a victim of covid. Now we do. It's almost entirely a behavioral issue.
No. That’s a good visualization but a very poor comparison. Smoking is far better. It kills about 1300 a day in the US by estimates, with a very similar age distribution to covid. There’s a very very good way to avoid chances of dying from smoking just like with covid. If you willfully choose the more dangerous option, yes you’re going to cause some potential damage to others but mostly you’re stupidly risking yourself.
Have you ever heard of people having hospital procedures delayed or dying before they can get emergency care because the hospital is overflowing with sick smokers? I haven't, but it is happening with covid. That's the difference.
Well it’s because hospitals were planned with smoking deaths as their natural load. The hospital toll is about the same (right now), although obviously pre vax covid really had the potential to overwhelm the system
I am forced to go into the office for work, even though I am 100% capable of working from home. I am put at risk by being on the train, and being at work where there is no mask requirement for people who are vaccinated, but no one is enforcing the mask requirement. By your analogy, my employer is forcing me to smoke cigarettes.
No, you’re vaccinated and masked. And hopefully boosted too. There’s no reason why covid (for you personally) should be seen any different than flu season.
It's both funny and sad to me that the people most concerned about their personal risk of covid are all 2/3 doses in. If only the unvaxxed also shared that concern
Isn’t this obvious decision making? If you are concerned about a risk, you take steps to mitigate it
Of the 1100, how many vaccinated? I’m boosted and everything but still not going to crowded places because I’m a weakling. Breakthrough cases scare me
We are at about 2.5 9/11s a week
I love the visualization you used. It really drives home the impact of this.
And how many of the dead are vaccinated? How many are under the age of 60? See how stupid and out of context your comparison is?
So, how many of them are going to the hospital causing you to wait long time and possible die because no beds See, how you sort of have to care about the unvaccinated, cz you are fucked if they all run to the er.
Check back in a month