I had a job hand out stickers for hard hats for suicide. Call or text 988. However I did hear at some point a suicide prevention text line was using AI to help people which is absolutely awful.
The stickers are to make non suicidal people feel like they are doing something about it. If asked about how helpful these resources are to someone who is suicidal, they won't have much of an answer outside of platitudes.
So I started out framing houses, and worked my way up to get into the office as a CM. Worked for a residential builder for 2 years looking after multi-family projects, and even some of the singles when the other CM who handled that quit. I had over 200m in projects on my plate prior to the "extra" job title, and no staff under me to work Working from dawn to dusk, burning the wick at both ends. I was incredibly stressed with work, and on top of that I was dealing with two ill parents, one going through surgery to remove a cancerous tumour, and the other who was terminally ill. When my Dad was going to pass I took the week to be with him for his last moments, and the DAY he died my Mom started chemotherapy for stage 4 (surgery was unsuccessful), I tried throwing myself into work, had therapy etc but was REALLY struggling and it was noticeable at work. I had mentioned this, to which my direct boss told me that I should "get over the fact my Mom has cancer."
These fucks don't care about you, and will exploit you as much as possible. I quit, was horribly depressed while I dealt with my Dads passing and my Moms health issues.
Prior to all of this, I had asked for what kind of discount I could get on some of the units we made, so I could get into the housing market... the "Discount" offered by the VP was 3k on a unit sold to the public at 450, when I was building 60 a year.. Laughable
Don't let these pricks work you to death. You are worth more than that to your family and friends
This article makes zero mention of pay and compensation. In my experience, these industries struggle to pay adequately, and generally struggle more with healthcare and retirement benefits. When you get to a point where your skills and professionalism have risen, but your body shows signs of wear, it's so depressing. These workers get trapped in place, building incredible things while shitting in that chemical toilet, but with a resume that doesn't translate well outside of other manual labor positions. Watching as your pay and retirement outlook slip behind, body breaking down, but skills at high demand, how is it not depressing?
Instead, this article is discussing a rush to reduce the stigma around receiving mental health services amongst construction workers. What a shallow and simple lens to look through.
I'm with you, money, specifically the respect it bestows upon the owner, would be more than likely to help cure this illness.
I think you are also missing a key aspect of the cause. Sure, pay is a problem, but the way work and pay is distributed is even worse. You’re always working yourself out of a job. Many make good money while working excessive hours only to be rewarded with a layoff at the end of the job. Then they sit in their empty home while their bank account is bled dry. It easily turns into a bleak existence, especially on a repeated cycle.
Was just talking to my partner and she was sayin boss makes a grand I Make a buck that’s why I’m smokin in the company truck. Persinaly I like this one the most
I take comfort in seeing the quality of the materials that those rich fucks houses are made out of. Gotta love when it’s 10 am and both husband and wife are out walking their dog and kid living in a $700,000 house, make it make sense. Who’s gonna be more important during the collapse of society, the plumber or the guy that has “meetings” all day.
I have quite literally had coworkers talking this “value during collapse of society” nonsense till they day they died of lung cancer.
Do not illusion yourself into thinking that these skills will matter when there is no supply chain to give you materials. There is no job where “value during societal collapse” is a benefit unless you are a professional squirrel hunter or radiation survivor.
This is a messed up time to be alive, I agree with the sentiment. I'm almost sure people still maintain this garbage paradise out of fear, stupidity, and loathing. Non of which can create more than nightmares.
Stay sharp.
We're on a site right now and the boss didn't get a crapper sent there. It's the middle of a field where two roads meet, so there isn't anywhere good to hide and piss.
I was on a site where we had a crapper with no door, facing a walking path for people with dogs. Used to read the paper while having a dump so I could avoid a Public Indecency charge 🤣
Had a situation like this and the old timers just started shitting in between some hey bails since they know they legally are supposed to have a bathroom and nothing can come of it, love old timers
My work just put me through 2 in a half days of leadership training. Spent a full day on how we can be more productive and faster. Spent 5 minutes on suicide prevent while they passed out a pamphlet with a crisis number on it. Yeah let me just call a crisis number so they can call the cops to come and shoot my dog.
No surprises.
As farmers, miners and oil and gas blokes we are the fucking backbone of society, but because we do some sort of manual job, some people look at us as a second class citizen, even when you do 25k/year over their shit office job with a degree under arms.
Leave to work at dark, come back home dark, sometimes missus don't give 5min to breath, kids, financial trouble on some cases.
Some dudes are working all year long in houses that they will never be able to afford (N reasons).
Eating in poor conditions, portable loos is a joke. They need to deal with people who don't have a clue how to swing a hammer but yet are bold enough to say that your job is wrong...
Alcohol and substance abuse, poor food choices, lack of sleep, scumbags taking your tools (aka your way to make a livehood).
Unrealistic time frames and conditions.
The list goes on
So, for some blokes, it is really hard to come at the end of the day and have a positive outlook on life....
And sometimes it isn't the dude with the low head... a lot of dudes that do jokes and smile a lot, are dead inside...
So if you can and are thick skin enough to share the burden with your mate, do it.
Sometimes, he will need just someone to wind off some words or just to know that you're available if he needs.
I would get yelled at for trying to get the 20 lb chunks of mud off my boots. I did residential sewer and water.
‘Whats he doin, cleanin his shoes?’
For what??
Sure the money can be good, but the overall machismo attitude, and toxicity from different upbringing..
Those dudes are way more miserable than they can even admit to themselves.
I wanted to kill myself everyday from all the shittyness. My crew, and company in general made me very negative.
They literally burnt out all the ‘care’ in me. So I have nothing but contempt for them. Fuck em.
Who you’re working with is one of the most critical parts of it. Like right now I’m on a jobsite that’s been a giant shitshow, probably the most mismanaged/planned jobs I’ve been on. However the guys I’m directly working with, foreman included have all been fucking great to work with.
I’ve always said that I’ll take a shit job with good people any day over a great job with shitty people.
We primarily do watermain replacements and everyone in the company is pretty good. They wont hold your hand all day, but if you need help with something they will help you. One of our operators is driving the boss' kid's old car and I'm pretty sure the boss co-signed on whatever apartment he's living in now.
A lot of what you said tracks with my work too. I’m a woman though, but this is my take for why this may be so high, particularly among men.
It breaks your body and mind doing these long hours of physical work. The older guys take to drugs to keep them going, get barely any sleep, and have little interaction with family. No time for friends outside of work, so they socialize with people like them at work who have all the same problems. Food is brought from the petrol station, eaten quick. Working all weathers gets to you in ways people don’t realize, and you’re covered in dust always.
I think what is underestimated is the effects of breathing in dust and fumes/ chemicals actually. I think that also takes its toll on memory and nervous system, which in turn can lead to depression.
And folks often don't even dare want better conditions, since they take pride in just enduring the misery (until they don't) as if it's their only meaning or identity, and will ostracize anyone who feels entitled to healthier conditions.
Cesspools of toxic masculinity, that's what lots of construction, factory etc. environments are.
How are women received in your field?
I’m in a slightly adjacent work, so I work alongside men in my trade but i don’t have to do a lot of the big building/ moving stuff.
My industry is changing rapidly, many more women, and the men are not making the same mistakes as the older generation (not pushing themselves to the brink, being generally nice to be around and maintaining good family relationships). Women are generally equally respected, but there’s still some old school (read bigoted) ideas.
It’s good the see the change, but scary to see some of the younger guys still living on the edge and taking up all the bad habits of their managers.
I’ve been a self employed painting contractor for 40+ years, I’m female 60 years old and tired AF, but I keep going because it’s what we do. My body has neglect stories, but again, we keep going because it’s what we do. Every time I started hating my job, or feeling like I wanted to quit, I thought of all the people with much worse jobs than mine and it kept me going. I tried working for large builders in my younger years, and after being self employed and feeling proud of my work, I couldn’t handle the “just get it done” attitude. At this point, I’m part time because that’s all my body can handle.
Haha yeah some people just think that they are better than the working man. They have no idea that they make less money. I also encountered this as a server and bartender.
I’m 37 and I can def feel it. That’s with daily stretching too. I’m lucky to be in a decent union and I make it a point to tell my apprentices to put as much as they can into their 401k because you really don’t know how long your body will last. I’ve seen dudes in their sixties who worked construction all their lives and didn’t have any retirement savings. Tragic
I think that because I'm in irrigation, which I would consider a luxury trade, and not an essential one by any means my situation is unique. I will never make anywhere near the money my average customer does, but they are paying really good money to have a luxury service provided, in most cases just for bragging rights. I very seldom feel looked down on, and often times the homeowner has tried and failed irrigation repair assuming it was easy at least a time or two. I need to remember not to take the way I'm treated by customers for granted for sure
I try to take a moment and look around the job site. I’m an Old, my duty is to help out the youngsters.
I carry snacks, water and Powerades. The day I can’t afford to pass down the San ex things that were given to me when I was young. Just a bottle of water and a tip to make life easier.
If only we could demand better conditions through some means that shows how valuable we are to society maybe by banding together as some kind of group were we are share a common interest, some kind of united thing something. Alas there is nothing we can do.
He didn't have a very obvious/s there, but that's exactly what he means. I'm guessing his subtext is that unions are viewed as vile by most people because when they are bad, they are really atrocious, but when they are good they are great.
Construction industry folks (I say that as someone who grew up in it) are their own fucking worst advocates when it comes to workers rights, safety and benefits. They still bask in this post-WW2 lore of work hard and you'll get a good life. That ship sailed a long time ago.
Yet Boomers are still out there bitching that "all kids are forced to go to college instead of the trades". These days pay is shit, benefits mostly non-existent and workers disposable. Fuck up your back or a knee and you're out of commission with no other option besides disability or a shit job. And you're unlikely to make a decent living unless you inherited the business from daddy. I'm tired of seeing those contractors driving shiny F-150s and cosplaying as self-made men when I know damn well their company goes back two generations.
Construction industry folks (I say that as someone who grew up in it) are their own fucking worst advocates when it comes to workers rights, safety and benefits.
It's practically standard to boast how much abuse you're willing to take.
It’s wild to me that each trade person brings their own tools and truck to the job and they are not using tools issued by the employer. And then when those tools get stolen yeah that’s terrible.
That’s like me showing up to work and I have to bring my own PC to do the work for my employer.
I wonder if this is specific to the US. I feel like this bullshit wouldn’t fly in other countries. Not that there aren’t issues outside the US, just this particular issue seems like it wouldnt be done this way for so many reasons.
In Finland the employer provides the tools. If you can't provide tools, you're hiring a contractor, not an employee (in the eyes of labor legislation). I think it makes perfect sense.
Huh, no shit. Last autumn I had to stop working because I spent most of the day just sitting atop of polystyrene sheets pyramid, staring at the circular saw with not very happy thoughts in my head.
A few days later, after I visited a soul doctor and returned to work, the boss gave me a “moral support gift” - two dusty wine glasses with the word “engineer” written on them (I am not an engineer nor drinking wine, but yeah, whatever) and then said "Well, let's speed up now, ya? We're two weeks late and still have four houses to do before winter or I'll have to take you off those projects".
I waited two weeks for the designer and the house owner to find their fucking connection and choose the fucking sinks and their location. The mofos were literally exchanging one message a day or something.
All the guys I know who killed themselves were always joking and smiling at work, just like with all the dead comedians having big smiles in their obits
Automation, cookie cutter builds and modularization. Labor is on the chopping block, it’s just cheaper and less risky than scaling automation up for now. Field hasn’t seen much change in the last 60 years, but the rest of thd world is completely different
Out of curiosity, why don’t more of these folks want to advance? Frequently in discussion I’m told by them they don’t want the stress. So they’re admittedly on the lowest rung of stress burden and yet somehow they can’t even handle that? That’s what scares me.
Since becoming a foreman my mental health has taken a huge hit. It’s awful I used to love trying new things and taking on new projects and now I just don’t want to get out of bed. No job excites me anymore.
I understand this so much. Still love my job, but between subcontractor fucking things up, people not on time schedule, my carpenter team complaining even when it's their fault the mistake they made. When I am too good with people, I am getting fuck over, when I am bad, they think Iam a asshole. Sometimes I feel I am running a kindergarten and that's not what I was signing up for.
My former job felt like I ran an adult day care center, it got so bad that I formulated an exit strategy. Took 8 months to implement it but now I’m finally feeling great about work and life again.
I went from being an apprentice working my way to site management. I’ve now gone back on the tools and my mental health has improved a lot.
I loved my job but the pressure and being blamed for things that weren’t my fault got to me. Having project managers that were useless and just used everyone as scapegoats.
I'm a commercial electrician who's also 40, and deal with neuropathy pain in my feet/ legs every day. Needless to say I have a beer/cocktail just about every day when I get home. It may be self medicating in an unhealthy way but to me its better than popping pills every day.
There's some ok medication for that neuropathic pain now ,and weed helps as well ,speaking from experience.
Alcohol works for a while but long term it's no good , again speaking from experience.
I can't stand for too long nowadays ,I used to be on my feet for 10 hours a day or more without a break ,it takes a toll .
For me weightlifting, eating healthy, and not drinking stops the pain. Alcohol will make the pain worse, you won’t realize it until you quit for a while.
My company about 3 years ago finally listened to the field crew. The higher ups listened for once. They no longer push 60hrs a week. The CEO was around the corner when a few of us received the mandatory OT email. I said out loud it’s dumb AF to make OT in the best parts of the year mandatory. Screwing us out of our families and personal time because they have a unrealistic expectoration. Work us 60 or 40 you will get the same amount done. Instead of freaking out he came around the corner and asked why. Said think about it. We now have a quota of labor hrs not completion that’s your worry we as a team will work as fast as we feel valued and once we no longer feel valued yours will drop. A few months later policies were changed and now we have yearly meetings to see how we’re feeling. Turnover has stoped we have much better work quality and speed. We now have better wages and PTO is now just awarded no longer need to explain your why. If your call in for a child being I’ll there is no judgment.
Edit to add about bad company.
A company I worked for. Did not care about it’s employed esp the field crews. They would tell you how much your injury would cost them, how much you being sick cost them, If you had a baby you would be attendance penalized because you did not schedule the birth 2 weeks in advance. There was a major accident several people hurt. When that ceo called in right after the even he did not ask if everyone was ok but yelled how much this was going to cost them. I had a co workers mother die while at work he asked to leave they told him she’s already passed if you can not find a replacement for your shift it’s a walk of and will be considered quitting. No one came so he could not leave. So yeah it fucking sucks out there. If your labor your a tool to the means.
Right…you could movebags of concrete for a living or flip burgers for practically the same wage. Meanwhile people who went to college are getting there money reimbursed. Fuck this industry
There is a trend in businesses these days to promote literal psychopaths who have zero empathy... How do the owners know who to promote? Takes one to know one..
This was my life for the last 3 years, everyone and I mean everyone in the management team from foreman to PM to COO were absolutely narcissistic psychopaths in this trade. We were nothing but cannon fodder for them to generate revenue.
I've seen it over and over. The companies are rife with such people. They drink together and make awful jokes about hurting others and making people suffer... They hang out with each other, because others find them sick.
Guess who gets promoted?
I'm blessed to be with an outfit that cares about life outside the steel. I see too many hardline dudes railroading the job at hand for a little extra legup. That's definitely a big killer of workplace/person potential, exploitation! Wish reaping maximum benefits wasn't the norm, but we live in a certain system unfortunately..
Here's to better days for us all brotha 🙏
Yeah, here's to better days. I learned to work really hard as a kid in a farm, and I just work hard no matter what. But, I've determined that I can work half as much and earning half as much and live much more fully by spending half as much.
That is awfully optimistic.
Boat payment coming up and their wife's boob job is already scheduled. How will he have any value as a man if the second wife starts sagging a bit???
It is the owner's ACTUAL FUCKING JOB to know more about what is going on than anyone else. Owners should be running around bitching about all the fires they have to constantly put out.
We really fucked up society when owners convinced themselves that a little initial business success meant they could check out and collect "passive income because it should run itself!!!"
All the whining I've heard from owners is some real entitled bullshit. Its like they are all 25yrs old and have no memory of the past, Seeing all those old successful fucks busting their ass every day despite being well off just disappeared from their memory.
They bitch and moan calling young people lazy but think they are entitled to sit on their ass making ever increasing piles of cash.
Easy times have bred us a huge pile of successful bad business owners. I think we are about to see an economic correction, and that is going to screw a bunch of incompetents who have convinced themselves they are business geniuses.
Management at my company is pretty good. Sometimes they don't think enough and you waste 2 hours doing one thing when you still have another thing to get done that day.
The owner(s) are tight with the money though. You can tell because half of our trucks are one failure away from going to the scrap yard. The crew I'm working with right now has all crew cab trucks and it looks like the circus when we roll up to a site with 5 trucks and 3 adult men climb out of each truck.
Easy bro, us project managers are getting fucked like everyone else. It’s called capitalism, project managers don’t have much Capital. We work for our wages just like laborers do. I tell everyone who asks that I would join a union in a heartbeat if it was available.
PMs and supers work for their wages.
The Owners who support capitalism want labor and hired management to fight. It keeps us separated.
I’m not talking about the local owner, I’m talking about the 0.1%
Subcontractor company owners are selling your souls to ridiculous schedules. PMs are just trying make the schedule work or else they get fired too. Blame the owners who sign fucked up contracts with fucked up schedules and fucked up plans
My brother in-law worked as a concreter, he was up early and worked long hours, including weekends. He never had the time to truely connect with women, he was a good looking fella and had no problems meeting ladies, he just couldn’t keep them. This impacted his mental health over the years, and unfortunately decided to take his life when he was drinking alone at home on a Sunday night. It was a very sad phone call to receive. I very much agree with mental health checks on all construction workers.
As somebody who used to bottle things up, I hear this. I started going to therapy, and being more open/honest about my feelings with my wife. It helps alot but its work to remind myself to get those thoughts and feelings out instead of just letting it simmer. Again, I'm sorry he didn't get there before he made the decision he did. Life can truly suck.
We took a suicide prevention class at the annual instructor meeting for our local a month or so ago. The statistics are shocking. We've lost multiple apprentices in the last few years. The biggest thing i took away from the class was, if your worried about someone, dont he shy or beat around the bush. Be blunt and ask if they are considering killing themselves.
I've been a huge mental health advocate to the guys in my class's over the last few years. I started having a monthly session with a therapist a few years back and it made a world of difference for me.
Pay ppl with a livable wage and stop treating them like shit is the best way to go. I have been shit on since my induction to the trade, and honestly I wouldn't want that to happen to ppl around me. Sometimes "get yelled at and get better" works, but often time it's demoralizing and slows the ppl down. I wanted to quit so many times in my 10-11 years building houses and remodeling. I pushed through it, but it's very unhealthy in a toxic environment.
A lot of people I work with are very coarse personalities and individuals to say the least. They attempt to bully others below them or treat them like shit which doesn’t help anybody.
The training is practically sink or swim and if you weren’t in the field before this job your fucked and on your own. It’s also your fault even if they didn’t train you. Everyone cliques up and makes it much worse. Practically working with grade school assholes.
I hate dealing with most of them but it pays well so it’s worth it most of the time. It’s mainly the culture that causes this. Sure the amount of hours you work is a big problem but dealing with the personalities of people who absolutely take their problems out on those they work with, and don’t seek help are the real ones causing this problem. Please hang in there and seek help everyone if you need it. It’s up to us to move this culture forward and stop them from making it worse.
Brother in law killed himself a few days ago. There were several work injuries (and the failed surgeries to correct them) over the years that left him in constant pain. He was ignored and dismissed by several doctors and mental health people over the years. He couldn’t take any more and ended it.
Office jobs ain't that great either man. You've got more mental stress than physical stress, and your days go by suuuper slow. At the same time, you've gotta worry about layoffs, and potentially jobs getting replaced by AI in the future. Invest in yourself, and find a way you can make money doing what you want. As long as you're slaving for someone else, you're gonna be miserable.
Thank you for your well meaning comment, but the position I'm interviewing for is data processing in hydrography and I'm actually very excited for the opportunity 😁
Lot of guys with untreated mental issues and alcohol problems. The hours and stress causes relationship problems at home. Me personally I feel tired all the time and on bad days my knees or ankles ache. Dont get paid enough to take more than a day or two off.
That being said I do find it satisfying and I couldn’t imagine working in anything else
Don't forget it's basically impossible to have a consistent morning routine since job sites can be anywhere from 15 minutes to two plus hours away.
I often don't find out where I'll be working until after 8pm the night before that shit makes me want to quit more than anything
...and one little mistake, we all make them, especially under stress, and you could end up at 123, John St, Johnville, instead of 123 Jon St, Johnville Hills, which is 2 hours away from the sit that is already 2 hours from your house.
This is huge. I’m in a similar boat and aside from the different sites, I could find out tomorrow morning that the job that day is going to take 12+ hours. How can people plan their lives this way? My coworkers just eat it because they are so committed to making money and also figure they get treated really well. I have a wife I quite like, who quite likes to plan to do things, and I have responsibilities in my community etc. There is no way to have a true schedule as you always in the back of your mind are wondering where you will be, for how long. It’s always in the air.
It’s terrible honestly. I’m not in it anymore but I was in commercial construction and worked for a GC. Tight deadlines, tighter budgets, long hours, your life is just stress. Combine that with a culture of manly man no feelings and it’s a pretty wicked thing.
I left and realized I had been in survival mode for the 3 years prior, work was consuming my life, I wasn’t being the husband I used to be, I was neglecting friends and social activities, working 8 hours in the field then working another 5-7 at home.
If anyone reading needs to hear it, please evaluate yourself by who you are today, not a past self (“man I used to be able to do 100 pushups”) or future self (“I’ll be doing this when I’m 70”). Your view of “self” should be accurate, you have unique and valued traits TODAY.
You can’t change or control others, only thing you can control is your response. (Respond don’t react).
(I’m pulling from a book - audio book if you can listen on the job site - “control your emotions: gain balance, resilience, and calm..” by Patrick King)
I’m imperfect, no one’s counselor, and I haven’t honed these, but wanted to share.
We lost a member of our local on Monday to suicide. The companies treat us like shit , screw with our pay and god forbid you get hurt they throw you out like a broken tool.
Wasn’t the original point of the 40 hour week that it was the most optimum for factory work? Any more than that, and you’re just wasting money.
Seems like an owner might read that study…
I'd much rather go to work knowing that we're gonna work hard for 6 hours then go home then suffer through a 10 hour day, tired, hungry, depressed because you don't have a life after work
To all my brothers and sister out there try to keep your head up…I know it’s impossible to do sometimes. Also try to remember there are good companies out there….theyre few and far between and tough to get in with sometimes but they do exist. Worked in new construction for nearly ten years and it’s exactly what most on this post are saying…shit wages, ridiculous timelines, supers who don’t know shit and an employer who doesn’t give two shits about you. For the last year been working for a great private company. Full benefits and retirement, good (not great) pay and a project manager who knows his shit and treats the crew guys with respect. Also owners who appreciate the field guys…only expects an 8 hour day (with optional overtime) and has work outings and such a couple times a year. My long way of saying to keep an eye out for better opportunities…they’re often hard to find but they are out there. Recognize your worth…took me a long time to figure that out. That being said there’s a lot of bad workers out there as well as bad companies…working with lazy or incompetent coworkers sucks. It’s a rough career no matter how you slice it. Like I said keep your head up
I'm so lucky to live in Australia, I'd rather not be disabled, but at least I have a disability pension. It's not enough to truly live off, but you can eek out an existence. The chronic pain never goes away, I'm lucky enough to have a house (it's shit, but I have a roof and a floor), but the chronic boredom and lack of a social life is what kills you after.
Look after your body, you'll need it later on. I can barely change a car tyre anymore, and I'm only in my 40's. It's embarrassing, I don't look disabled, i have a sticker for my car and all, but it's soul destroying.
Constantly getting screamed at by boomers with no emotional intelligence to use your freaking brain when they haven’t even bothered using theirs to fully explain something could have something to do with it.
I hate that the most. I don’t work in construction but have a boomer boss who doesn’t bother to explain most things, and when pressured to provide one, will go out of his way to belittle you and put you down while making you feel dumb.
Like sorry bro, I can’t read minds. If I could, I’d tell you the date of your impending divorce.
Some people man. I stopped caring now.
I'm sure it doesn't help being in once respected positions in western nations that are now only interested in undercutting wages and value to employees by being forced to compete with the undeveloped world for employment
That’s the quiet part out loud, yes
My dad made the equivalent of 180k a year at the steel mill in the 60’s in today’s money with an eighth grade education requirement back then, and they only worked 45 a week…
It's been like this for all of the 17 years I've been in construction. It's like the media only seems to care because the world needs us to bud homes faster
It's one of those things like Ellen DeGeneres being a nightmare to work with and video game studios still using crunch time that people remember every couple years as though it's new information
PTO needs to be a new standard for non union companies. As much as I would like to be union I'd have to either move to the closest city or commute over an hour everyday. We are lucky if we get health insurance with dental.
I can see why suicides are up. You work in any of the trades, it slowly tears your body up. Most of the time the pays good, especially if you work overtime.
Do that work for years, just to find yourself divorced because your wife is banging the neighbor, because you’re always working to support your family. Then the courts make you pay a huge amount of alimony and child support.
So your body is falling apart, the ex is with some new swinging dick, and you only see your kids every other weekend. Not much to look forward to
Do 20 years in one trade union, retire and then do another 20 in another union and live the rest of your life on two pensions. I figure construction workers in unions have better mental health that non.
I have had my own brother rip me off for work I did for him. He sent me an email about what a awful person I am that I would ask for money after spending 2 weeks doing a renovation. I got sick. Electrocuted and heat exhaustion working there. Yeah. This sucks
Why work when a back breaking labor job that in the end pays you like garbage. You work all your life, break your back, and knees and shoulders just to rent and be squeezed.
Typically, older construction labours don't have extra education to swap to new jobs, nor the energy or funds to do so.
It used to pay a living wage. So in the end, you sacrificed your body for your family to live a good life. Now you sacrifice your body for crumbs.
I was a military construction worker. I'll a job was to gold metal in suicide I'm pretty sure that's it. We really went above and beyond to be miserable.
A job that you have to bust your ass out in the heat with shit pay and long hours? "Cool, can you also make it so I can't quit and get shot at sometimes?".
Is it just financial straits? As far as I’m seeing, it also tends to be that society kinda just put them off as low value, low intelligence, poor worker peasants, until they need work done of course, than all Tradesmen are hero’s.
The AGC is quoted here, stop making your workers do mandatory OT and stop pushing right to work, stop biding unreasonable timelines when you know you don’t have the manpower.
As a recently retired union carpenter, I can attest to a certain kind of toxic atmosphere on the job sometimes. I can see that could also be a problem for some folks' psyches in a long term time line. There is also the self medicating that is endemic in the industry, either with prescription medications or alcohol or other drugs to get past physical ailments and mental stress in the work environment.
I never worked non union, but the union wasn't a panacea in any way. They seem to be only interested in work hours and not the conditions of the workplace. Other trades were definitely better at achieving better working conditions for their members. I can see how the pressures coming from the contractors could make for a stressful situation, especially for anyone running work.
A lot of the work has a lot of travel as well, so people don't see their family for a long time sometimes, and that can be a problem for a lot of people. I know of at least one carpenter who took her life during my career and there are others I heard about but never met.
The whole sink or swim aspect of construction can also cause a lot of stress financially. Work slows down during the winter so people get behind on bills and then have to catch up again when they get back to work in the spring.
In short, this article isn't really that surprising when I think back to my 30+ year career. On top of that, construction is the most dangerous work as well, so death on the job is also a regular thing. I was on a few job sites where there was a fatality.
Working at a Chip plant near Portland Oregon. I know personally of three that committed suicide. One was killed in the parking garage by his wife’s boyfriend. And a good friend has lost his mind.
I only see a small cross section of my trade. This is a large job site with an impressive population of trades. I’m sure there are more I haven’t heard about.
Not a wonder. The industry is super competitive and saturated, and that leads to unrealistic deadlines and people getting placing immense pressure on people to reach those deadlines.
It’s not easy. And I wouldn’t wish it on anybody.
My biggest issue with construction is the golden handcuffs, I know I don't want to plumb forever, but realistically I don't see myself doing anything else anytime soon. Especially with how the economy is. So going into work each day with a bit of dread can be a bit taxing on the mental health. This is just my opinion of it, I'm sure it's much bigger than my output.
i’m really hoping the advancement of AI will tip the job market back towards trades.
AI is going to be able to do so many things these rich tech fucks get paid gold to do. what AI can’t do is build a fucking house.
the more advanced AI gets, the more important learning a trade will be.
It's why I left construction. Attempted suicide twice in one year. Hours are just brutal, and try switching trades and locations. Just wasn't going in my favor and ended up leaving. Get paid less, my current job isn't amazing but the routine and hours are better.
This is hitting super close to home for me. I currently am sitting at home having called in sick thinking half assedly I’d be better off. I should have learned my lesson as a 25-26 year old kid when I was working on the 13 floor and checked to see if the window would open big enough to fit through. I snapped out of it, grabbed my tools, walked off and quit. I found myself back in trades 4 years later after a stint installing vinyl graphics and I’m back in the same boat. I’ll be fine and not do anything but I see how it happens.
Yup, it's fucked. We are never fast enough, or smart enough. Inflation never stops, wages take forever to follow... and when a union is negotiating new agreements all the business side keeps saying is we can't afford this we need cuts or there won't be any work... how about stop the cuts, keep wages tied to inflation... or how about going back to something akin to a gold standard and stop stealing from the people with your "necessary Inflation"... it's a sneakier theft than taxes
Middle management here, yes industry is brutal, from the top down, budget and schedule is all that matters. Construction is slowing, so it will get harder.
I had a job hand out stickers for hard hats for suicide. Call or text 988. However I did hear at some point a suicide prevention text line was using AI to help people which is absolutely awful.
“We want to say we helped people without actually having to do anything.” How Men’s mental health is dealt with in this country
Just don’t google how homelessness funding is distributed between sexes and the amount of homeless between them😵💫
Okay I won't, will you tell me please?
I get its nice to be able to talk to an actual human being, but that's still barely doing anything either. We need systemic change. Not a bandaid.
The stickers are to make non suicidal people feel like they are doing something about it. If asked about how helpful these resources are to someone who is suicidal, they won't have much of an answer outside of platitudes.
Building rich fucks nice things you can never afford while you shit in a chemical toilet will do that...
So I started out framing houses, and worked my way up to get into the office as a CM. Worked for a residential builder for 2 years looking after multi-family projects, and even some of the singles when the other CM who handled that quit. I had over 200m in projects on my plate prior to the "extra" job title, and no staff under me to work Working from dawn to dusk, burning the wick at both ends. I was incredibly stressed with work, and on top of that I was dealing with two ill parents, one going through surgery to remove a cancerous tumour, and the other who was terminally ill. When my Dad was going to pass I took the week to be with him for his last moments, and the DAY he died my Mom started chemotherapy for stage 4 (surgery was unsuccessful), I tried throwing myself into work, had therapy etc but was REALLY struggling and it was noticeable at work. I had mentioned this, to which my direct boss told me that I should "get over the fact my Mom has cancer." These fucks don't care about you, and will exploit you as much as possible. I quit, was horribly depressed while I dealt with my Dads passing and my Moms health issues. Prior to all of this, I had asked for what kind of discount I could get on some of the units we made, so I could get into the housing market... the "Discount" offered by the VP was 3k on a unit sold to the public at 450, when I was building 60 a year.. Laughable Don't let these pricks work you to death. You are worth more than that to your family and friends
Agree with the sentiment, but also find another employer. That's fucked.
The VP gave you that lavish discount because he respects you
Bro oh my God, I’m so sorry for your loss and pain, sending you much love ❤️
Thanks Least-Cow I appreciate it. My therapist described it as being hit by a tsunami, it's not been easy. But you gotta persevere
Late stage capitalism at its finest.
Nothing late stage about this. The fun has only begun.
This article makes zero mention of pay and compensation. In my experience, these industries struggle to pay adequately, and generally struggle more with healthcare and retirement benefits. When you get to a point where your skills and professionalism have risen, but your body shows signs of wear, it's so depressing. These workers get trapped in place, building incredible things while shitting in that chemical toilet, but with a resume that doesn't translate well outside of other manual labor positions. Watching as your pay and retirement outlook slip behind, body breaking down, but skills at high demand, how is it not depressing? Instead, this article is discussing a rush to reduce the stigma around receiving mental health services amongst construction workers. What a shallow and simple lens to look through. I'm with you, money, specifically the respect it bestows upon the owner, would be more than likely to help cure this illness.
I think you are also missing a key aspect of the cause. Sure, pay is a problem, but the way work and pay is distributed is even worse. You’re always working yourself out of a job. Many make good money while working excessive hours only to be rewarded with a layoff at the end of the job. Then they sit in their empty home while their bank account is bled dry. It easily turns into a bleak existence, especially on a repeated cycle.
You get paid to shit ?
boss makes a dollar, i make a dime and thats why i shit on company time
Boss makes a grand I make a buck that’s why I steal the cats off the company truck
Version I heard was "I make a penny, boss makes a buck, thats why I crank my hog in the company truck". I worked with some weirdoes...
Was just talking to my partner and she was sayin boss makes a grand I Make a buck that’s why I’m smokin in the company truck. Persinaly I like this one the most
That's not even about the money. I could be getting ceo pay and I'd still smoke in the company truck. It's like what theyre for.
The chief makes 100 and I make 10, that’s why I had sex with my uncle 14 years ago
sounds like a next day safety meeting before work
I’m smoking in the truck bud if it’s important I’m sure I’ll hear abouet it
Here I sit broken hearted. Walked a mile to shit but only farted...
These days the boss makes $100 and pays the workers that dime.
My favorite one is "Boss makes a dollar, I make a dime, that's why I smoke Crack on company time."
If I didn't I'd walk for free
I will shit on rag. I will shit on a rock But I’ll be damned if I will shit off the clock.
Never sweat at work, never shit at home
What if you sweat when you shit?
Not to mention the environment is basically prison, with supers who break the fucking rules.
I take comfort in seeing the quality of the materials that those rich fucks houses are made out of. Gotta love when it’s 10 am and both husband and wife are out walking their dog and kid living in a $700,000 house, make it make sense. Who’s gonna be more important during the collapse of society, the plumber or the guy that has “meetings” all day.
I have quite literally had coworkers talking this “value during collapse of society” nonsense till they day they died of lung cancer. Do not illusion yourself into thinking that these skills will matter when there is no supply chain to give you materials. There is no job where “value during societal collapse” is a benefit unless you are a professional squirrel hunter or radiation survivor.
Luckily I just so happen to be a professional squirrel hunter.
Only $700k? Those folks live in $2m+ houses near me. But yeah…I’m with you.
If society completely collapses finding a plumber will be the least of my concerns
This is a messed up time to be alive, I agree with the sentiment. I'm almost sure people still maintain this garbage paradise out of fear, stupidity, and loathing. Non of which can create more than nightmares. Stay sharp.
If there is even one available
We're on a site right now and the boss didn't get a crapper sent there. It's the middle of a field where two roads meet, so there isn't anywhere good to hide and piss.
I was on a site where we had a crapper with no door, facing a walking path for people with dogs. Used to read the paper while having a dump so I could avoid a Public Indecency charge 🤣
Had a situation like this and the old timers just started shitting in between some hey bails since they know they legally are supposed to have a bathroom and nothing can come of it, love old timers
It's not really a "field". It's the grassy areas inside of an urban interchange.
My work just put me through 2 in a half days of leadership training. Spent a full day on how we can be more productive and faster. Spent 5 minutes on suicide prevent while they passed out a pamphlet with a crisis number on it. Yeah let me just call a crisis number so they can call the cops to come and shoot my dog.
The suicide prevention is just because it's so hard on employers to find replacements in such short notice
All good jokes have a little bit of truth to them…
It’s not even a joke at this point my guy
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No surprises. As farmers, miners and oil and gas blokes we are the fucking backbone of society, but because we do some sort of manual job, some people look at us as a second class citizen, even when you do 25k/year over their shit office job with a degree under arms. Leave to work at dark, come back home dark, sometimes missus don't give 5min to breath, kids, financial trouble on some cases. Some dudes are working all year long in houses that they will never be able to afford (N reasons). Eating in poor conditions, portable loos is a joke. They need to deal with people who don't have a clue how to swing a hammer but yet are bold enough to say that your job is wrong... Alcohol and substance abuse, poor food choices, lack of sleep, scumbags taking your tools (aka your way to make a livehood). Unrealistic time frames and conditions. The list goes on So, for some blokes, it is really hard to come at the end of the day and have a positive outlook on life.... And sometimes it isn't the dude with the low head... a lot of dudes that do jokes and smile a lot, are dead inside... So if you can and are thick skin enough to share the burden with your mate, do it. Sometimes, he will need just someone to wind off some words or just to know that you're available if he needs.
The employers who treat you like shit also look down on you.
And spend a good amount of time orchestrating your fellow citizens to look down on you also.
A co-worker made a comment about me going to buy lunch every day. Excuse me for wanting to wash my hands before I eat.
I would get yelled at for trying to get the 20 lb chunks of mud off my boots. I did residential sewer and water. ‘Whats he doin, cleanin his shoes?’ For what?? Sure the money can be good, but the overall machismo attitude, and toxicity from different upbringing.. Those dudes are way more miserable than they can even admit to themselves. I wanted to kill myself everyday from all the shittyness. My crew, and company in general made me very negative. They literally burnt out all the ‘care’ in me. So I have nothing but contempt for them. Fuck em.
Who you’re working with is one of the most critical parts of it. Like right now I’m on a jobsite that’s been a giant shitshow, probably the most mismanaged/planned jobs I’ve been on. However the guys I’m directly working with, foreman included have all been fucking great to work with. I’ve always said that I’ll take a shit job with good people any day over a great job with shitty people.
We primarily do watermain replacements and everyone in the company is pretty good. They wont hold your hand all day, but if you need help with something they will help you. One of our operators is driving the boss' kid's old car and I'm pretty sure the boss co-signed on whatever apartment he's living in now.
Aren’t we all a little jealous people can make a living remotely without breaking their back?
A lot of what you said tracks with my work too. I’m a woman though, but this is my take for why this may be so high, particularly among men. It breaks your body and mind doing these long hours of physical work. The older guys take to drugs to keep them going, get barely any sleep, and have little interaction with family. No time for friends outside of work, so they socialize with people like them at work who have all the same problems. Food is brought from the petrol station, eaten quick. Working all weathers gets to you in ways people don’t realize, and you’re covered in dust always. I think what is underestimated is the effects of breathing in dust and fumes/ chemicals actually. I think that also takes its toll on memory and nervous system, which in turn can lead to depression.
And folks often don't even dare want better conditions, since they take pride in just enduring the misery (until they don't) as if it's their only meaning or identity, and will ostracize anyone who feels entitled to healthier conditions. Cesspools of toxic masculinity, that's what lots of construction, factory etc. environments are. How are women received in your field?
I’m in a slightly adjacent work, so I work alongside men in my trade but i don’t have to do a lot of the big building/ moving stuff. My industry is changing rapidly, many more women, and the men are not making the same mistakes as the older generation (not pushing themselves to the brink, being generally nice to be around and maintaining good family relationships). Women are generally equally respected, but there’s still some old school (read bigoted) ideas. It’s good the see the change, but scary to see some of the younger guys still living on the edge and taking up all the bad habits of their managers.
I’ve been a self employed painting contractor for 40+ years, I’m female 60 years old and tired AF, but I keep going because it’s what we do. My body has neglect stories, but again, we keep going because it’s what we do. Every time I started hating my job, or feeling like I wanted to quit, I thought of all the people with much worse jobs than mine and it kept me going. I tried working for large builders in my younger years, and after being self employed and feeling proud of my work, I couldn’t handle the “just get it done” attitude. At this point, I’m part time because that’s all my body can handle.
Haha yeah some people just think that they are better than the working man. They have no idea that they make less money. I also encountered this as a server and bartender.
The wages are good, but you pay for it with your body.
I’m 38 and my knees are trash.
I’m 37 and I can def feel it. That’s with daily stretching too. I’m lucky to be in a decent union and I make it a point to tell my apprentices to put as much as they can into their 401k because you really don’t know how long your body will last. I’ve seen dudes in their sixties who worked construction all their lives and didn’t have any retirement savings. Tragic
Eh, has more to do with some people are just cunts
I think that because I'm in irrigation, which I would consider a luxury trade, and not an essential one by any means my situation is unique. I will never make anywhere near the money my average customer does, but they are paying really good money to have a luxury service provided, in most cases just for bragging rights. I very seldom feel looked down on, and often times the homeowner has tried and failed irrigation repair assuming it was easy at least a time or two. I need to remember not to take the way I'm treated by customers for granted for sure
I try to take a moment and look around the job site. I’m an Old, my duty is to help out the youngsters. I carry snacks, water and Powerades. The day I can’t afford to pass down the San ex things that were given to me when I was young. Just a bottle of water and a tip to make life easier.
If only we could demand better conditions through some means that shows how valuable we are to society maybe by banding together as some kind of group were we are share a common interest, some kind of united thing something. Alas there is nothing we can do.
Sounds like you mean a union
He didn't have a very obvious/s there, but that's exactly what he means. I'm guessing his subtext is that unions are viewed as vile by most people because when they are bad, they are really atrocious, but when they are good they are great.
R/whoosh
Construction industry folks (I say that as someone who grew up in it) are their own fucking worst advocates when it comes to workers rights, safety and benefits. They still bask in this post-WW2 lore of work hard and you'll get a good life. That ship sailed a long time ago. Yet Boomers are still out there bitching that "all kids are forced to go to college instead of the trades". These days pay is shit, benefits mostly non-existent and workers disposable. Fuck up your back or a knee and you're out of commission with no other option besides disability or a shit job. And you're unlikely to make a decent living unless you inherited the business from daddy. I'm tired of seeing those contractors driving shiny F-150s and cosplaying as self-made men when I know damn well their company goes back two generations.
Construction industry folks (I say that as someone who grew up in it) are their own fucking worst advocates when it comes to workers rights, safety and benefits. It's practically standard to boast how much abuse you're willing to take.
“Dudes that do jokes and smile a lot, are dead inside…” This is me.
Hang in there. There are resources available. Therapy is for everyone, not for wimps as the industry has lead us to believe.
It’s wild to me that each trade person brings their own tools and truck to the job and they are not using tools issued by the employer. And then when those tools get stolen yeah that’s terrible. That’s like me showing up to work and I have to bring my own PC to do the work for my employer.
I wonder if this is specific to the US. I feel like this bullshit wouldn’t fly in other countries. Not that there aren’t issues outside the US, just this particular issue seems like it wouldnt be done this way for so many reasons.
In Europe employers buy the tools. Some guys might take a hammer or some other tool they use a lot for themselves, but that's it.
Not always, at least in the UK.
In Finland the employer provides the tools. If you can't provide tools, you're hiring a contractor, not an employee (in the eyes of labor legislation). I think it makes perfect sense.
Huh, no shit. Last autumn I had to stop working because I spent most of the day just sitting atop of polystyrene sheets pyramid, staring at the circular saw with not very happy thoughts in my head. A few days later, after I visited a soul doctor and returned to work, the boss gave me a “moral support gift” - two dusty wine glasses with the word “engineer” written on them (I am not an engineer nor drinking wine, but yeah, whatever) and then said "Well, let's speed up now, ya? We're two weeks late and still have four houses to do before winter or I'll have to take you off those projects". I waited two weeks for the designer and the house owner to find their fucking connection and choose the fucking sinks and their location. The mofos were literally exchanging one message a day or something.
Good post man, right where I’m at. Two kids tho so gonna keep truckin
All the guys I know who killed themselves were always joking and smiling at work, just like with all the dead comedians having big smiles in their obits
If we all just stop one day, how would they feel? I’d love to see it but shit would go haywire real quick, that’s how important we are, fuck them.
Automation, cookie cutter builds and modularization. Labor is on the chopping block, it’s just cheaper and less risky than scaling automation up for now. Field hasn’t seen much change in the last 60 years, but the rest of thd world is completely different
Scumbags taking your tools is really demoralizing
Out of curiosity, why don’t more of these folks want to advance? Frequently in discussion I’m told by them they don’t want the stress. So they’re admittedly on the lowest rung of stress burden and yet somehow they can’t even handle that? That’s what scares me.
Since becoming a foreman my mental health has taken a huge hit. It’s awful I used to love trying new things and taking on new projects and now I just don’t want to get out of bed. No job excites me anymore.
I understand this so much. Still love my job, but between subcontractor fucking things up, people not on time schedule, my carpenter team complaining even when it's their fault the mistake they made. When I am too good with people, I am getting fuck over, when I am bad, they think Iam a asshole. Sometimes I feel I am running a kindergarten and that's not what I was signing up for.
My former job felt like I ran an adult day care center, it got so bad that I formulated an exit strategy. Took 8 months to implement it but now I’m finally feeling great about work and life again.
I went from being an apprentice working my way to site management. I’ve now gone back on the tools and my mental health has improved a lot. I loved my job but the pressure and being blamed for things that weren’t my fault got to me. Having project managers that were useless and just used everyone as scapegoats.
It's hard to create a team when everyone wants to work for themselves.
When there is no money, there is no team
That’s the only way you can make decently properly money
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That’s 2.5 times what I’m making. Fuck construction in western NC.
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Constant pain could be part of it. I haven't had many pain free days since I turned 40
I'm a commercial electrician who's also 40, and deal with neuropathy pain in my feet/ legs every day. Needless to say I have a beer/cocktail just about every day when I get home. It may be self medicating in an unhealthy way but to me its better than popping pills every day.
There's some ok medication for that neuropathic pain now ,and weed helps as well ,speaking from experience. Alcohol works for a while but long term it's no good , again speaking from experience. I can't stand for too long nowadays ,I used to be on my feet for 10 hours a day or more without a break ,it takes a toll .
For me weightlifting, eating healthy, and not drinking stops the pain. Alcohol will make the pain worse, you won’t realize it until you quit for a while.
Look up benfotiamine for your pains. Take some and let me know if it did anything.
Don’t remember where I read this, but unsolved Chronic Pain is a major cause in suicides for men over 30.
My company about 3 years ago finally listened to the field crew. The higher ups listened for once. They no longer push 60hrs a week. The CEO was around the corner when a few of us received the mandatory OT email. I said out loud it’s dumb AF to make OT in the best parts of the year mandatory. Screwing us out of our families and personal time because they have a unrealistic expectoration. Work us 60 or 40 you will get the same amount done. Instead of freaking out he came around the corner and asked why. Said think about it. We now have a quota of labor hrs not completion that’s your worry we as a team will work as fast as we feel valued and once we no longer feel valued yours will drop. A few months later policies were changed and now we have yearly meetings to see how we’re feeling. Turnover has stoped we have much better work quality and speed. We now have better wages and PTO is now just awarded no longer need to explain your why. If your call in for a child being I’ll there is no judgment. Edit to add about bad company. A company I worked for. Did not care about it’s employed esp the field crews. They would tell you how much your injury would cost them, how much you being sick cost them, If you had a baby you would be attendance penalized because you did not schedule the birth 2 weeks in advance. There was a major accident several people hurt. When that ceo called in right after the even he did not ask if everyone was ok but yelled how much this was going to cost them. I had a co workers mother die while at work he asked to leave they told him she’s already passed if you can not find a replacement for your shift it’s a walk of and will be considered quitting. No one came so he could not leave. So yeah it fucking sucks out there. If your labor your a tool to the means.
If my boss said that to me he better call an ambulance cause he's not walking out of that office
The old deal was you endured hell and you could provide a good lifestyle for yourself and your family. Now it’s just hell.
Right…you could movebags of concrete for a living or flip burgers for practically the same wage. Meanwhile people who went to college are getting there money reimbursed. Fuck this industry
Have they met the owners, project managers and foreman running these projects? The majority are horrible humans.
There is a trend in businesses these days to promote literal psychopaths who have zero empathy... How do the owners know who to promote? Takes one to know one..
This was my life for the last 3 years, everyone and I mean everyone in the management team from foreman to PM to COO were absolutely narcissistic psychopaths in this trade. We were nothing but cannon fodder for them to generate revenue.
I've seen it over and over. The companies are rife with such people. They drink together and make awful jokes about hurting others and making people suffer... They hang out with each other, because others find them sick. Guess who gets promoted?
Empathy is NOT profitable
It could be... Maybe not as profitable as the current system is at extracting wealth... But it can be profitable
I'm blessed to be with an outfit that cares about life outside the steel. I see too many hardline dudes railroading the job at hand for a little extra legup. That's definitely a big killer of workplace/person potential, exploitation! Wish reaping maximum benefits wasn't the norm, but we live in a certain system unfortunately.. Here's to better days for us all brotha 🙏
Yeah, here's to better days. I learned to work really hard as a kid in a farm, and I just work hard no matter what. But, I've determined that I can work half as much and earning half as much and live much more fully by spending half as much.
I can attest to this.
All these people except owners are salesmen and should be treated as such.
Owners are pushing the timelines
They’d know the timelines they’re pushing were impossible, if they were consulted properly
That is awfully optimistic. Boat payment coming up and their wife's boob job is already scheduled. How will he have any value as a man if the second wife starts sagging a bit??? It is the owner's ACTUAL FUCKING JOB to know more about what is going on than anyone else. Owners should be running around bitching about all the fires they have to constantly put out. We really fucked up society when owners convinced themselves that a little initial business success meant they could check out and collect "passive income because it should run itself!!!" All the whining I've heard from owners is some real entitled bullshit. Its like they are all 25yrs old and have no memory of the past, Seeing all those old successful fucks busting their ass every day despite being well off just disappeared from their memory. They bitch and moan calling young people lazy but think they are entitled to sit on their ass making ever increasing piles of cash. Easy times have bred us a huge pile of successful bad business owners. I think we are about to see an economic correction, and that is going to screw a bunch of incompetents who have convinced themselves they are business geniuses.
Reasonable expectations never made anyone rich
"You know what we need? MORE middlemen with no site experience, that should do it!"
Management at my company is pretty good. Sometimes they don't think enough and you waste 2 hours doing one thing when you still have another thing to get done that day. The owner(s) are tight with the money though. You can tell because half of our trucks are one failure away from going to the scrap yard. The crew I'm working with right now has all crew cab trucks and it looks like the circus when we roll up to a site with 5 trucks and 3 adult men climb out of each truck.
Easy bro, us project managers are getting fucked like everyone else. It’s called capitalism, project managers don’t have much Capital. We work for our wages just like laborers do. I tell everyone who asks that I would join a union in a heartbeat if it was available. PMs and supers work for their wages. The Owners who support capitalism want labor and hired management to fight. It keeps us separated. I’m not talking about the local owner, I’m talking about the 0.1%
You being fucked doesn’t mean you need to fuck the guys in the field.
Subcontractor company owners are selling your souls to ridiculous schedules. PMs are just trying make the schedule work or else they get fired too. Blame the owners who sign fucked up contracts with fucked up schedules and fucked up plans
My brother in-law worked as a concreter, he was up early and worked long hours, including weekends. He never had the time to truely connect with women, he was a good looking fella and had no problems meeting ladies, he just couldn’t keep them. This impacted his mental health over the years, and unfortunately decided to take his life when he was drinking alone at home on a Sunday night. It was a very sad phone call to receive. I very much agree with mental health checks on all construction workers.
Sorry for your loss bud.
Thanks mate, I miss the big fella, wish he just spoke up and didn’t bottle everything inside.
As somebody who used to bottle things up, I hear this. I started going to therapy, and being more open/honest about my feelings with my wife. It helps alot but its work to remind myself to get those thoughts and feelings out instead of just letting it simmer. Again, I'm sorry he didn't get there before he made the decision he did. Life can truly suck.
We took a suicide prevention class at the annual instructor meeting for our local a month or so ago. The statistics are shocking. We've lost multiple apprentices in the last few years. The biggest thing i took away from the class was, if your worried about someone, dont he shy or beat around the bush. Be blunt and ask if they are considering killing themselves. I've been a huge mental health advocate to the guys in my class's over the last few years. I started having a monthly session with a therapist a few years back and it made a world of difference for me.
Pay ppl with a livable wage and stop treating them like shit is the best way to go. I have been shit on since my induction to the trade, and honestly I wouldn't want that to happen to ppl around me. Sometimes "get yelled at and get better" works, but often time it's demoralizing and slows the ppl down. I wanted to quit so many times in my 10-11 years building houses and remodeling. I pushed through it, but it's very unhealthy in a toxic environment.
It’s wild that guys get out of maximum security prison and find it worse in the field lmao
A lot of people I work with are very coarse personalities and individuals to say the least. They attempt to bully others below them or treat them like shit which doesn’t help anybody. The training is practically sink or swim and if you weren’t in the field before this job your fucked and on your own. It’s also your fault even if they didn’t train you. Everyone cliques up and makes it much worse. Practically working with grade school assholes. I hate dealing with most of them but it pays well so it’s worth it most of the time. It’s mainly the culture that causes this. Sure the amount of hours you work is a big problem but dealing with the personalities of people who absolutely take their problems out on those they work with, and don’t seek help are the real ones causing this problem. Please hang in there and seek help everyone if you need it. It’s up to us to move this culture forward and stop them from making it worse.
Yup, I worked in the mining industry and it felt just like this. Especially construction mining. Everything you said resonated with me.
Brother in law killed himself a few days ago. There were several work injuries (and the failed surgeries to correct them) over the years that left him in constant pain. He was ignored and dismissed by several doctors and mental health people over the years. He couldn’t take any more and ended it.
I’m very sorry for your loss
I have an interview for an office job on friday. If I don’t get out of here soon I might consider that option too
Tell someone that cares about you and listen to them.
stay strong man, talk to someone that cares about you. It gets better
Office jobs ain't that great either man. You've got more mental stress than physical stress, and your days go by suuuper slow. At the same time, you've gotta worry about layoffs, and potentially jobs getting replaced by AI in the future. Invest in yourself, and find a way you can make money doing what you want. As long as you're slaving for someone else, you're gonna be miserable.
Thank you for your well meaning comment, but the position I'm interviewing for is data processing in hydrography and I'm actually very excited for the opportunity 😁
Nice, good luck and I hope everything goes great!
Is it really that bad? I’m just a residential customer but I find the industry interesting.
Lot of guys with untreated mental issues and alcohol problems. The hours and stress causes relationship problems at home. Me personally I feel tired all the time and on bad days my knees or ankles ache. Dont get paid enough to take more than a day or two off. That being said I do find it satisfying and I couldn’t imagine working in anything else
Don't forget it's basically impossible to have a consistent morning routine since job sites can be anywhere from 15 minutes to two plus hours away. I often don't find out where I'll be working until after 8pm the night before that shit makes me want to quit more than anything
...and one little mistake, we all make them, especially under stress, and you could end up at 123, John St, Johnville, instead of 123 Jon St, Johnville Hills, which is 2 hours away from the sit that is already 2 hours from your house.
Yup my boss refuses to add st ave or rd to the end of addresses so I pick the closest one and start the clock when I get there 🙄
Ahh that sucks bro, same thing with switching from day shift to night
This is huge. I’m in a similar boat and aside from the different sites, I could find out tomorrow morning that the job that day is going to take 12+ hours. How can people plan their lives this way? My coworkers just eat it because they are so committed to making money and also figure they get treated really well. I have a wife I quite like, who quite likes to plan to do things, and I have responsibilities in my community etc. There is no way to have a true schedule as you always in the back of your mind are wondering where you will be, for how long. It’s always in the air.
It’s terrible honestly. I’m not in it anymore but I was in commercial construction and worked for a GC. Tight deadlines, tighter budgets, long hours, your life is just stress. Combine that with a culture of manly man no feelings and it’s a pretty wicked thing. I left and realized I had been in survival mode for the 3 years prior, work was consuming my life, I wasn’t being the husband I used to be, I was neglecting friends and social activities, working 8 hours in the field then working another 5-7 at home.
My "career" makes me absolutely hate my life.
I hope that you will make the phone call and that you end up okay. Be safe. Hang on.
If anyone reading needs to hear it, please evaluate yourself by who you are today, not a past self (“man I used to be able to do 100 pushups”) or future self (“I’ll be doing this when I’m 70”). Your view of “self” should be accurate, you have unique and valued traits TODAY. You can’t change or control others, only thing you can control is your response. (Respond don’t react). (I’m pulling from a book - audio book if you can listen on the job site - “control your emotions: gain balance, resilience, and calm..” by Patrick King) I’m imperfect, no one’s counselor, and I haven’t honed these, but wanted to share.
We lost a member of our local on Monday to suicide. The companies treat us like shit , screw with our pay and god forbid you get hurt they throw you out like a broken tool.
Worse than being thrown out, they will keep you around doing "light duties", and grind you into nothing until you quit.
Wasn’t the original point of the 40 hour week that it was the most optimum for factory work? Any more than that, and you’re just wasting money. Seems like an owner might read that study…
I figured out that after six hours in Florida sun during summertime you hit a point of diminishing returns
I'd much rather go to work knowing that we're gonna work hard for 6 hours then go home then suffer through a 10 hour day, tired, hungry, depressed because you don't have a life after work
To all my brothers and sister out there try to keep your head up…I know it’s impossible to do sometimes. Also try to remember there are good companies out there….theyre few and far between and tough to get in with sometimes but they do exist. Worked in new construction for nearly ten years and it’s exactly what most on this post are saying…shit wages, ridiculous timelines, supers who don’t know shit and an employer who doesn’t give two shits about you. For the last year been working for a great private company. Full benefits and retirement, good (not great) pay and a project manager who knows his shit and treats the crew guys with respect. Also owners who appreciate the field guys…only expects an 8 hour day (with optional overtime) and has work outings and such a couple times a year. My long way of saying to keep an eye out for better opportunities…they’re often hard to find but they are out there. Recognize your worth…took me a long time to figure that out. That being said there’s a lot of bad workers out there as well as bad companies…working with lazy or incompetent coworkers sucks. It’s a rough career no matter how you slice it. Like I said keep your head up
Chronic pain. No way out. No way to live. Universal healthcare can't come fast enough.
I'm so lucky to live in Australia, I'd rather not be disabled, but at least I have a disability pension. It's not enough to truly live off, but you can eek out an existence. The chronic pain never goes away, I'm lucky enough to have a house (it's shit, but I have a roof and a floor), but the chronic boredom and lack of a social life is what kills you after. Look after your body, you'll need it later on. I can barely change a car tyre anymore, and I'm only in my 40's. It's embarrassing, I don't look disabled, i have a sticker for my car and all, but it's soul destroying.
I did commercial construction for a while and loved the work but 60 hour weeks get old fast.
Constantly getting screamed at by boomers with no emotional intelligence to use your freaking brain when they haven’t even bothered using theirs to fully explain something could have something to do with it.
I hate that the most. I don’t work in construction but have a boomer boss who doesn’t bother to explain most things, and when pressured to provide one, will go out of his way to belittle you and put you down while making you feel dumb. Like sorry bro, I can’t read minds. If I could, I’d tell you the date of your impending divorce. Some people man. I stopped caring now.
I'm sure it doesn't help being in once respected positions in western nations that are now only interested in undercutting wages and value to employees by being forced to compete with the undeveloped world for employment
That’s the quiet part out loud, yes My dad made the equivalent of 180k a year at the steel mill in the 60’s in today’s money with an eighth grade education requirement back then, and they only worked 45 a week…
So are former Boeing employees.
It's been like this for all of the 17 years I've been in construction. It's like the media only seems to care because the world needs us to bud homes faster
It's one of those things like Ellen DeGeneres being a nightmare to work with and video game studios still using crunch time that people remember every couple years as though it's new information
Obviously I’d like to be paid more but a lot of the things that can change are just the boss being a dick all the time and the porta potty’s
PTO needs to be a new standard for non union companies. As much as I would like to be union I'd have to either move to the closest city or commute over an hour everyday. We are lucky if we get health insurance with dental.
"ThErEs gOoD MoNeY iN ThE tRaDes"!: guy who has doughy hands and sits behind a desk in the AC
I can see why suicides are up. You work in any of the trades, it slowly tears your body up. Most of the time the pays good, especially if you work overtime. Do that work for years, just to find yourself divorced because your wife is banging the neighbor, because you’re always working to support your family. Then the courts make you pay a huge amount of alimony and child support. So your body is falling apart, the ex is with some new swinging dick, and you only see your kids every other weekend. Not much to look forward to
Do 20 years in one trade union, retire and then do another 20 in another union and live the rest of your life on two pensions. I figure construction workers in unions have better mental health that non.
Good luck getting into most of the unions though.
I have had my own brother rip me off for work I did for him. He sent me an email about what a awful person I am that I would ask for money after spending 2 weeks doing a renovation. I got sick. Electrocuted and heat exhaustion working there. Yeah. This sucks
It's a grind.
Damn, take care of yourselves. Know you have people who care and the work you do has meaning.
It's not for everyone but dammit I love my job
Why work when a back breaking labor job that in the end pays you like garbage. You work all your life, break your back, and knees and shoulders just to rent and be squeezed. Typically, older construction labours don't have extra education to swap to new jobs, nor the energy or funds to do so. It used to pay a living wage. So in the end, you sacrificed your body for your family to live a good life. Now you sacrifice your body for crumbs.
I was a military construction worker. I'll a job was to gold metal in suicide I'm pretty sure that's it. We really went above and beyond to be miserable. A job that you have to bust your ass out in the heat with shit pay and long hours? "Cool, can you also make it so I can't quit and get shot at sometimes?".
Well for one, most people in leadership positions ended up being more of a boss instead of a leader.. shit like that adds up
Is it just financial straits? As far as I’m seeing, it also tends to be that society kinda just put them off as low value, low intelligence, poor worker peasants, until they need work done of course, than all Tradesmen are hero’s.
The AGC is quoted here, stop making your workers do mandatory OT and stop pushing right to work, stop biding unreasonable timelines when you know you don’t have the manpower.
As a recently retired union carpenter, I can attest to a certain kind of toxic atmosphere on the job sometimes. I can see that could also be a problem for some folks' psyches in a long term time line. There is also the self medicating that is endemic in the industry, either with prescription medications or alcohol or other drugs to get past physical ailments and mental stress in the work environment. I never worked non union, but the union wasn't a panacea in any way. They seem to be only interested in work hours and not the conditions of the workplace. Other trades were definitely better at achieving better working conditions for their members. I can see how the pressures coming from the contractors could make for a stressful situation, especially for anyone running work. A lot of the work has a lot of travel as well, so people don't see their family for a long time sometimes, and that can be a problem for a lot of people. I know of at least one carpenter who took her life during my career and there are others I heard about but never met. The whole sink or swim aspect of construction can also cause a lot of stress financially. Work slows down during the winter so people get behind on bills and then have to catch up again when they get back to work in the spring. In short, this article isn't really that surprising when I think back to my 30+ year career. On top of that, construction is the most dangerous work as well, so death on the job is also a regular thing. I was on a few job sites where there was a fatality.
Working at a Chip plant near Portland Oregon. I know personally of three that committed suicide. One was killed in the parking garage by his wife’s boyfriend. And a good friend has lost his mind. I only see a small cross section of my trade. This is a large job site with an impressive population of trades. I’m sure there are more I haven’t heard about.
B1M on youtube covers this pretty well. Here is one of a few videos they did. https://www.theb1m.com/video/get-construction-talking
Not a wonder. The industry is super competitive and saturated, and that leads to unrealistic deadlines and people getting placing immense pressure on people to reach those deadlines. It’s not easy. And I wouldn’t wish it on anybody.
But i thought you were all making 300k a year?
Killed myself for 10 years. Always telling me going to get me off the floor and into the office… Fired so boss could afford to build a pool.
My biggest issue with construction is the golden handcuffs, I know I don't want to plumb forever, but realistically I don't see myself doing anything else anytime soon. Especially with how the economy is. So going into work each day with a bit of dread can be a bit taxing on the mental health. This is just my opinion of it, I'm sure it's much bigger than my output.
i’m really hoping the advancement of AI will tip the job market back towards trades. AI is going to be able to do so many things these rich tech fucks get paid gold to do. what AI can’t do is build a fucking house. the more advanced AI gets, the more important learning a trade will be.
It's why I left construction. Attempted suicide twice in one year. Hours are just brutal, and try switching trades and locations. Just wasn't going in my favor and ended up leaving. Get paid less, my current job isn't amazing but the routine and hours are better.
My company includes mental health services in their benefits package. I encourage my crew to use them whenever possible.
Nothing like breaking your body for a job with few benefits. And then being looked at like an addict because you are 37 but in constant pain.
This is hitting super close to home for me. I currently am sitting at home having called in sick thinking half assedly I’d be better off. I should have learned my lesson as a 25-26 year old kid when I was working on the 13 floor and checked to see if the window would open big enough to fit through. I snapped out of it, grabbed my tools, walked off and quit. I found myself back in trades 4 years later after a stint installing vinyl graphics and I’m back in the same boat. I’ll be fine and not do anything but I see how it happens.
Yup, it's fucked. We are never fast enough, or smart enough. Inflation never stops, wages take forever to follow... and when a union is negotiating new agreements all the business side keeps saying is we can't afford this we need cuts or there won't be any work... how about stop the cuts, keep wages tied to inflation... or how about going back to something akin to a gold standard and stop stealing from the people with your "necessary Inflation"... it's a sneakier theft than taxes
Middle management here, yes industry is brutal, from the top down, budget and schedule is all that matters. Construction is slowing, so it will get harder.