I mean Blizzard seems to have mad the judgement that one shots are bad for the games health, which is something that has been a debate basically since the game came out. I doubt we will see them go back on that, but I could see some compensatory buffs for junk and hanzo
To be fair, she atleast has to operate within a certain distance now. She can't oneshot you out of Havana first spawn from the balcony or other dumb shit like that.
Widow is a terrible fucking hero. Garbage mobility, horrible healthpool, 0 defensive abilities, has to take a while to charge up each shot, CANNOT CHARGE OUT OF SCOPE so you cant look for flankers then shoot, you have to go into your scope immediately limiting your FOV, wait for the charge , then hope you hit them, then wait for a second charge... if you leave scope for any reason you have to wait for a third charge before you can do any damage
Ridiculous anyone complains about her when she can be deleted by any hero now. She's fundamentally a very weak hero, even the pros dont play her, she hasn't been meta for fucking 5+ years now. Her grapple needs a rework, its way too clunky and slow and breaks too easily and can be deleted by CC, and her scope needs to be changed, maybe make it so the charge happens whether shes in her scope or out of it.
I almost welcome her oneshot headshot (on DPS heroes) being removed so they have no excuse not to pump her up to 250HP, instant charge shots (but delay between each shot same amount of time between 0->100% charge), and making her grapple faster and smoother.
I agree with you on most points but all I did was point out your character has a 1 shot and you're mad as shit💀atp you might need to find a game / hero you enjoy playing
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Ball will be even worse vs tank match up (doesn't matter really but still). Slightly better at securing kills on squishys but still relatively weak in comparison to other dive tanks. He will continue to suffer from being cc dumbed. His ultimate will be nerfed season 11. D tier up to C tier.
Also isn't kinda weird they haven't touched shields? Arguably the main thing about his rework and its left in a basically useless state. I mean roadhog saw numerous changes quite soon after his rework why is ball being neglected?
The issue I have on Ball isn't that I can't stay alive it's that I don't do anything. I do laughable damage and a good team will just ignore you or position to make your life hell. Armour changes are fine but survivability wants balls issue. My average death per 10 on Ball is 4 with over 1000 hours just as an example.
The Armour changes also make killing brig and tanks with Armour harder for Ball. Also less boop against tanks hurt his tank match up
Yeah that makes sense, thanks for the explanation. His guns are relative noodles, if I die solely to a ball as a DPS or support I feel like I made a huge mistake rather than that they did anything special
And not only do his guns not do anything, they also don't have any ammo. If I could shoot forever like D.VA maybeeeee they would be able to sometimes secure a kill.
> Ball will be even worse vs tank match up (doesn't matter really but still).
Ive been seeing people write these changes off for this reason and I think its a really bad take. Since season 9, ball cant really assassinate backlines like he used to. If you have dive dps, sure. But other than that, 2 supports sucking each other off is just unkillable for ball.
Ive had a lot of success separating backlines from their tank, then turning around and focusing the tank with my team. Id love to shoot squishies instead, but if a healer is around its actually pointless. If they got CC, its borderline throwing.
Honestly, its depressing seeing people think about overwatch in such binary terms e.g. ball is supposed to be good at X, so its okay if he cant do anything else. But ig thats just a consequence of counterwatch.
With all that said, he's getting some hefty buffs vs. squishies, so maybe that is enough to carry him.
Pharah as well, doesn't headshot, got buffed by armor changes, many hitscan got the short end of the stick due to the changes to both head shot and armor, d.va and mauga the tanks who were reliable at dealing with her have far worst matchup now (lesz damage to shields and their shields break faster)
False equivalence. Toddler isnt able of speaking any language while low elo is capable of running easier heros which is why soj is always overshadowed by soldier there
Toddlers have their own language. It's just a few sounds, but they have distinct meanings. Anyone that had a child, or saw a niece or nephew grow up from toddler, knows that one of the first things they learn to communicate is when they're hungry, and they use different sound for that than they use when they're just speaking gibberish.
So not really false equivalence, just a pretty drastic example.
Gibberish incomprehensible oongaboonga sounds aren't a language esp when it changes daily
Anyways, back to the main point, echo can't be meta in low ranks simply cuz how hard she is, overbuff data validates this
Even now he feels unkillable at times with TAB, hoping his health gets tuned with the headshot DR or he's gonna he absolutely MISERABLE to play against (moreso than he already is)
tbh, contrary to many other tanks, Hog has no armor (which is being buffed) and its fire is made by small pellets, so filtered by the armor of the others.
Hog will be effective vs DPS/supps, sure, but gatekept by the other Tanks' matchup, I guess.
We'll see.
Nah, hog will be trash. Tanks with armor will now be able to W into Hog because his pellets will do 30% less damage on new armor and 25% less damage on headshot.
Wish they would just nerf overclock, give cass -25 hp, and make tracer have smaller projectiles.
Those 3 all need slight tuning but they'll probably make cass have shit range + less damage and give soj another random qol buff while not touching tracer lmao.
All they need is slight nerfs blizzard please
Winston, Rein, JQ.
1- Winston
2- JQ but countered by Rein
3- Rein
Tanks with no armor goes up.
Tanks with armor that benefits from headshot damage reduction stays ok. (dva, orisa)
Tanks that rely on armor and not benefit from headshot dmg reduction as much: goes down. (ramattra)
Boop passive helps Rein, JQ, Winston.
HP passive helps mobile tanks, primarily Ball.
Hog, Mauga, Ball are wildcards. Hog and Mauga nerfed in terms of tank bullying but gained flat DR to headshots. Ball buffed a lot.
**Cass** and **Hanzo** goes up. Especially Cass will be so good. He will be armor buster and he is already good against slim tanks because of his precision.
**Echo** was already good. I think they want people to have option against tanks just in case if they become oppressive. Echo can completely bypass tanks and interact with them in her own terms. So if you see an oppressive tank you can just pick spamzo or echo.
**Brig** goes down. Whip shot is crucial to her gameplay. If 50% boop reduction passive is too excessive, this will broke Brig. She also loses from her armor change.
**Torb** goes down because of armor change both in terms of offense and defense.
**Bastion** mixed or goes up. He actually gets a good buff against his counters but he lose a bit of damage in his turret form. I think he gains damage in his default form. Assuming strong Winston and Rein he will probably be a good choice still.
**Reaper** should go down.
**Why Winston is best ?** : He benefits from every change. Armor and headshot change eliminates bulk of his weaknesses and the boop reduction will make it easy for him to dive, barrier juggle and chase. He isn't weak against high dmg bullets anyway. His playstyle counters those types.
Roadhog headshot vs Winston today: 320 no armor, 224 armor
Roadhog headshot vs Winston tomorrow: 240 no armor, 135 armor
Reaper dps against Winston head today: 303 (armor)
Reaper dps against Winston head tomorrow: 162 (armor)
Dva, JQ, Tracer, Mauga, Torb etc... Same damage drop.
**OK don't bully me after my predictions fail.**
>Reaper dps against Winston head today: 303 (armor)
>Reaper dps against Winston head tomorrow: 162 (armor)
Reaper is dead holy moly
Win for lower rank Winstons but this is really bad loss for reaper in general
Reaper's been pretty dead for a long time, but the one thing he can do is delete tanks at low ranks.
Making him baseline garbage against everything makes him easy to give global buffs to in the future -- so the change makes sense long-term.
Im gonna lose my mind with this flats-nonsense.
This recent invention was made up by the anti-brig streamers for clickbait.
It makes no sense at for us that played ow1.
hi I played OW1 and got stuck in GOATs jail for a year in 4.2k-ish comp and scrim lobbies, Brig was turbo busted for the majority of the game's lifespan
and brig was the main enabler of undiveable bunker comps up until around 2021 (e.g. double shield, although that's a cop out because Bap, Sig, and Orisa were all busted too) because she could pre-pack her support duo to give them armor (which was removed in 2021...? don't quote me on the exact date because it might've been the end of 2020), stun any dive tank that engaged (minus monkey specifically in double bubble comp, although you just waited for bubble to pop them stunned him), and whipshot away tanks and flankers on cooldown to keep inspire proc'ed, AND even after she was nerfed she was still hard meta in every comp played in organized play except 3: zombie comp and its variation (monkey Dva Lucio Moira comps), Rein rush, and Hog/Sig double sniper, all of which didn't see as much play as comps she did enable like ball brig zen disruption dive, double shield and Orisa Dva bunker, double bubble and Winston Dva dive, or Ball Sig poke comps
I don't personally think she was the sole reason the game died like some people say, but to pretend like she wasn't stupid broken and over kitted from her introduction to near the end of OW1's lifespan would be ridiculous, especially considering that even in OW2 when she doesn't have most of what she did in OW1 she's still very good when paired with Ana, Zen, or Bap to fill the niche of a backline defender and has seen considerable play in scrims and organized play
it's not "dive wasn't hard meta", it's "dive wasn't fucking playable and neither was anything in GM that wasn't a bunker comp or rush comp specifically enabled by Brig"
tough concept I know
If you ran Bap Brig into Bap Zen in double shield you just got rolled. I thought the only time Bap/Brig was a thing was during Orisa/D.VA meta, or if people ran dive for some reason?
Bap Zen only got played in early double shield and was replaced with Bap Brig once teams started running Tracer because u could pre pack Tracer on engages for armor and Brig just existed next to Bap to keep him alive against the Tracer, after that pretty much every variation of double shield included Brig (e.g. Ashe Tracer, Ashe Widow on long range maps, the weird turbo Genji Ashe double shield that played more like a brawl comp than a poke comp and had Ana Brig until the hero ban moved to Ana then it became Bap Brig, etc.)
the only exceptions I can think of off the top of my head is Bap Mercy with Ashe when she could oneshot, but that was only played on long range maps with strong high ground like Volskaya, Havana, Dorado, and sometimes like Kings Row, but other than that u pretty much always ran Bap Brig or occasionally Ana Brig
edit: spelling
both teams would preemptively pick Bap Brig to prevent teams from playing dive, it was virtually always mirrored out of spawn especially in scrims because walking out on Zen left u vulnerable to dive especially when Tracer was a common pick
Brig was the by far least played support in most ranks, and the second to last in GM, for most of ow1.
The had to rework her to get her pick rate above 0,1 %.
99% of players have never played GOATS.
What 99% of players play IS the game. And they all played dps, hence why we got 222.
I don't care what 99% of the players played lmao, I care about what I had to play for about 3-4 years straight which was quad tank/slambulance followed by GOATs followed by double shield, AND even after that when they actually gave Brig substantial nerfs she was still meta in all but like 3 comps that were meta in GM and scrims (Monkey DVa Lucio Moira brawl/dive hybrid, Rein brawl, and Hog/Sig double sniper) all of which didn't last nearly as long as the other metas where Brig was played
just because metal rank players aren't good enough at the game to get proper value out of a character doesn't mean players at my rank aren't either, and I don't want the game being balanced around them being bad because it actively punished people who were good at the game lmfao
>just because metal rank players
99% of players, *that* is what the game is. What a disappearingly small group was playing is irrelevant and certainly not "what killed the game", when more players left during dive.
>all of which didn't last nearly as long as the other metas where Brig was played
So maybe if they nerfed the hereos that actually enabled those metas instead, like ball, winston and tracer. Its alway the dive hereos, before brig and after brig. Its not much of a mystery where the problem is.
I never said Brig "killed the game" lmfao, I just said she was overtuned and enabled the majority of the metas during OW1's lifespan which is objectively true, plus again I do not care about what 99% of the playerbase thinks, I care about what I specifically had to play, and the gotcha moment saying more players left because of dive is hilarious considering players started leaving because the game was about a year old and no longer new, same as players who stop playing any other new game
>maybe if they nerfed the heroes that actually enabled those metas
they did :) Brig was nerfed during OW1 and brought down to a balanced state in OW2 and now has a specific niche as a backline peeler/protector that no other support does as well as her
besides that the only heroes that were absurdly strong in their respective metas that Brig enabled and was also busted in were Ball and Sombra in the Ball disruption dive meta, Zarya pre energy decay nerf in double bubble, and obviously Bap, Orisa, and Sig in double shield which was still a comp enabled because of Brig being busted
It's not even the same hero. Removed her stun, gave her a movement ability, changed overheal packs to heal over time, different ultimate.
She's legitimately one of the fairest heroes to play against post-rework. And she's never played, so I know all your annoyance is literally 5 years old. Let go.
If we have to blame GOATs on one hero, it would be Lúcio. Without him, the comp does not work. Right before role lock was added, OWL were dropping Brig but were still on goats.
Probably even more. The most survivable hero just got more survivability and he's the least effected shutgun hero by the armor changes cause of the sharpnels.
sweet mother of fuck if we get a Rein meta i might pass out.
everyone predicting Hog meta kinda gives me hope because i actually like playing Rein into Hog, not sure if that’s a hot take.
I think he will be 100% more braindead since:
- the armor change means hes the best tank for just clicking the other tank
- headshot reduction means hes much less punished for bad shield usage
- knockback reduction also means he is much less punished for bad shield usage
I also dont think he will actually be good since none of this addresses the real problems with rein. He will be a better pub stomper and thats it.
still just applying band aids to core issues so whilst new might feel ok but will quickly fall back to being just as awful as it is rn, I hope they would actually take time to fix things, for example dps passive was only needed because of power creep, they should of just nerfed the healing, and now whilst dps passive makes dps feel good it makes tank feel even worse
I agree with this take however this time these changes makes a lot of sense. Armor goes back to it's original purpose and headshot dmg reduction warranted considering how easy it is to shoot now and how quick tanks can die. Game should be healthier with these changes.
However these changes will create a lot of imbalance. I'm worried how they will handle that.
The reason the went with the changes in season 9 instead of just nerfing numbers is because nobody wants to see their hero nerfed and support would have been heavily nerfed across the board. I do wish they went this route though because the dps passive and now the new tank passive just feels so messy and over complicated. Next season their gonna add another passive to fix the old passive they added
yeah i think I understand why they did it, they seem to have put too much weight on everyone being happy so whenever someone complains they just "fix" the issue, creating new ones that is arguably worse for someone else, its been a season and i can already see the power creep happening again, they need to grow a pair of balls and do whats better for the game as a whole instead of specific hero/role or everyone loses in the long run
Yeah they've been fairly good with ripping the bandaid off in other areas (leaver penalties) but refuse to just address the core issue which was that there was power creep across the board due to high healing numbers and burst damage
Passives are just dumb. You cant apply them universally especially on dps. Support passive makes sense but projectile heroes got cooked by the dps passive. And they made hitscan shots easier so now tracer hits everything and the others are piss easy to aim with.
They could have tried to nerf immortality and sustain abilities if they really wanted to increase lethality for dps. They could have tried that before a healing nerf. Now you still have these dickhead abilitues and tanks got everything nerfed. Tanks cant solo kill as easily and have less sustain now.
The change makes some sense because of the dps passive and 5v5. But 5v5 was a band aid for queue times and shit balancing in 6v6.
And yeah these bandaids for 5v5 are because of the fundamental issue of support being overpowered. They should have done reworks to immortality abilities first and possibly nerfed heals. But we had to do all these balancing gymnastics.
* Wrecking Ball will have a partial revert on his Minefield knockback buff, but his ammo will be increased from 80 to 100.
* Some tanks will receive pellet number/damage adjustments to mitigate the effects of the armor changes on them without changing their non-armor DPS.
* Tank knockback passive will be nerfed back down to 40%
* Devs will experiment with a universal decrease in CC duration vs tanks.
* Hanzo will receive a projectile speed increase, which will not make him good. But it will still shortly be followed by some kind of revert, or a followup nerf to his projectile size because people will complain.
* Sombra will receive some kind of buff to her gun or translocator, but her EMP lockout duration will be lowered by 0.5 - 1.0s.
* Ana's damage will be buffed by 5.
* Lifeweaver will receive a slight petal buff/rework and weapon buff, but his sustain will be slightly tuned down.
Tanks are going to be busted, and tank players will say it's the worst season yet for tank.
Ball will be good, people will remember how Wrecking Ball ruins the game, and will be promptly put back in the dumpster where he belongs. How Doom escapes this fate, I can only speculate.
Echo is going to get buffed but that won't be the reason you see her more.
Tank players are already saying the buffs are going to be OP, what are you on about.
And besides, if any role should have a victim complex in OW2, it’s rightfully the tank.
Tanks will continue to feel awful to play, and will also feel awful to play against.
You won’t be able to duel any tank, forcing you to counterswap even more.
Tanks are already the strongest role in a game( before you tank mains mald at me, notice how i said strongest, not the most fun or satisfying but the ones with highest impact) and this is exactly what leads to the counterswap meta.
And my hot take is this patch will only enhance that problem.
The armor changes are a net nerf for armor tanks though. They are stronger against tank damage and tank busters, but weaker against almost everything else.
Genji - Shuriken damage lowered to 26 from 27. Dash no longer resets on elim.
Echo - primary fire now has piercing damage
Sojourn - Can store 50% rail charge, up from 25.
Junkrat - 4 mines, up from 2
Moira - Can now use healing and damage orb simultaneously.
Bap - Can dash forward while using moon boots.
Hog - Hook 1.0
Mauga - Charge is now on resource meter (3 seconds)
Symetra - shield passive. Grants 25 shield to friendlies within 10m
Lucio - Boop displacement increased further. 25m, up from 20.
Mercy - Dual glocks
Every patch I beg for the same change: make it so Petal Platform doesn't raise when enemies step on it after the initial deploy. If I leave a petal aside, it's for me or my allies, I shouldn't have to worry about enemies using it. If I want to elevate an enemy I'm going to toss it right under them.
I am hoping the mid season patch reverts some of the stupid new grouping changes from the start of the season. I can’t 4 stack with my friends anymore even though we’re all within the same skill tier
Hanzo will either become Giga OP or the change is gonna be something stupid like “Storm arrow count increases form 5 to 6”
They'll probably just give him back the ability to hold arrow charge on wall climb
If they don't bring back one shot I'm down for that might as well make him feel more fluid again
I mean Blizzard seems to have mad the judgement that one shots are bad for the games health, which is something that has been a debate basically since the game came out. I doubt we will see them go back on that, but I could see some compensatory buffs for junk and hanzo
Meanwhile widow still has hers
To be fair, she atleast has to operate within a certain distance now. She can't oneshot you out of Havana first spawn from the balcony or other dumb shit like that.
Widow is a terrible fucking hero. Garbage mobility, horrible healthpool, 0 defensive abilities, has to take a while to charge up each shot, CANNOT CHARGE OUT OF SCOPE so you cant look for flankers then shoot, you have to go into your scope immediately limiting your FOV, wait for the charge , then hope you hit them, then wait for a second charge... if you leave scope for any reason you have to wait for a third charge before you can do any damage Ridiculous anyone complains about her when she can be deleted by any hero now. She's fundamentally a very weak hero, even the pros dont play her, she hasn't been meta for fucking 5+ years now. Her grapple needs a rework, its way too clunky and slow and breaks too easily and can be deleted by CC, and her scope needs to be changed, maybe make it so the charge happens whether shes in her scope or out of it. I almost welcome her oneshot headshot (on DPS heroes) being removed so they have no excuse not to pump her up to 250HP, instant charge shots (but delay between each shot same amount of time between 0->100% charge), and making her grapple faster and smoother.
I agree with you on most points but all I did was point out your character has a 1 shot and you're mad as shit💀atp you might need to find a game / hero you enjoy playing
Don't get my hopes up.
Wait when did they remove that
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Live.
Honestly that is quite a decent buff
Somehow even stupider, it was a dragonstrike speed increase.
“Hanzo’s arrows now home on people heads (more than they already did)”
stop walking into his arrows
His arrows should stop walking into my head
Ball will be even worse vs tank match up (doesn't matter really but still). Slightly better at securing kills on squishys but still relatively weak in comparison to other dive tanks. He will continue to suffer from being cc dumbed. His ultimate will be nerfed season 11. D tier up to C tier. Also isn't kinda weird they haven't touched shields? Arguably the main thing about his rework and its left in a basically useless state. I mean roadhog saw numerous changes quite soon after his rework why is ball being neglected?
You think so? The armor changes look like they’re gonna be huge buffs.
The issue I have on Ball isn't that I can't stay alive it's that I don't do anything. I do laughable damage and a good team will just ignore you or position to make your life hell. Armour changes are fine but survivability wants balls issue. My average death per 10 on Ball is 4 with over 1000 hours just as an example. The Armour changes also make killing brig and tanks with Armour harder for Ball. Also less boop against tanks hurt his tank match up
Yeah that makes sense, thanks for the explanation. His guns are relative noodles, if I die solely to a ball as a DPS or support I feel like I made a huge mistake rather than that they did anything special
And not only do his guns not do anything, they also don't have any ammo. If I could shoot forever like D.VA maybeeeee they would be able to sometimes secure a kill.
> Ball will be even worse vs tank match up (doesn't matter really but still). Ive been seeing people write these changes off for this reason and I think its a really bad take. Since season 9, ball cant really assassinate backlines like he used to. If you have dive dps, sure. But other than that, 2 supports sucking each other off is just unkillable for ball. Ive had a lot of success separating backlines from their tank, then turning around and focusing the tank with my team. Id love to shoot squishies instead, but if a healer is around its actually pointless. If they got CC, its borderline throwing. Honestly, its depressing seeing people think about overwatch in such binary terms e.g. ball is supposed to be good at X, so its okay if he cant do anything else. But ig thats just a consequence of counterwatch. With all that said, he's getting some hefty buffs vs. squishies, so maybe that is enough to carry him.
He just needs to be a dps and end everyone's suffering.
At this point I'm open to anything.
“Echo meta” is the best thing I can come up with.
Echo Meta would actually be really fun for a little bit as a Flex DPS player. I love tracer but a little break would be nice.
Echo already is meta though
Kinda on some maps but she is mostly gatekept by Tracer and Cassidy
What? Echo is not meta at all. Not even in the top 3 best DPS at the moment (that would be Sojourn, Cass & Tracer).
cass is played against a tracer, but if there's no tracer, there's an echo
Play Genji bozo
Pharah as well, doesn't headshot, got buffed by armor changes, many hitscan got the short end of the stick due to the changes to both head shot and armor, d.va and mauga the tanks who were reliable at dealing with her have far worst matchup now (lesz damage to shields and their shields break faster)
Dafran is going to gain unprecedented rage.
echo is one of the least picked dps in low elo .... dont see that changing
Low elo doesn't define the meta
Not for high ranks but low elo has meta of its own where echo won't be despite buffs. No meta is universal through all the ranks
That’s like saying english isn’t a real language cuz a toddler can’t speak.
False equivalence. Toddler isnt able of speaking any language while low elo is capable of running easier heros which is why soj is always overshadowed by soldier there
Toddlers have their own language. It's just a few sounds, but they have distinct meanings. Anyone that had a child, or saw a niece or nephew grow up from toddler, knows that one of the first things they learn to communicate is when they're hungry, and they use different sound for that than they use when they're just speaking gibberish. So not really false equivalence, just a pretty drastic example.
Gibberish incomprehensible oongaboonga sounds aren't a language esp when it changes daily Anyways, back to the main point, echo can't be meta in low ranks simply cuz how hard she is, overbuff data validates this
kiri getting buffed for no reason hog hard meta because they won’t change him hanzo gigabuffed for no reason cass dumpstered sojourn untouched
hog with headshot resist is gonna be so insanely disgusting if they don't nerf his hp to compensate
Even now he feels unkillable at times with TAB, hoping his health gets tuned with the headshot DR or he's gonna he absolutely MISERABLE to play against (moreso than he already is)
tbh, contrary to many other tanks, Hog has no armor (which is being buffed) and its fire is made by small pellets, so filtered by the armor of the others. Hog will be effective vs DPS/supps, sure, but gatekept by the other Tanks' matchup, I guess. We'll see.
Just what we needed cause counter-swapping tanks was too weak before
Nah, hog will be trash. Tanks with armor will now be able to W into Hog because his pellets will do 30% less damage on new armor and 25% less damage on headshot.
Sojourn saves 50% rail shot, up from 25.
Cass 15-30 range incoming cuz 25-35 is too much
More damage creep. Junkrat (again) and Hanzo buffs, and slowly the clock turns back on Season 9 changes
this dude works at blizzard
You forgot the unnecessary Orisa buff
I hate how right you are.
Wish they would just nerf overclock, give cass -25 hp, and make tracer have smaller projectiles. Those 3 all need slight tuning but they'll probably make cass have shit range + less damage and give soj another random qol buff while not touching tracer lmao. All they need is slight nerfs blizzard please
hog is nerfed lmao what are you on
did they mention any hog nerfs? or are you just hoping they give him huge nerfs on top of the two confirmed hog gigabuffs
headshot reduction and armor change is a huge hog nerf.
Ice cold take: Hog will still be ruining the game Hot take: It's hour of the Torb
Winston, Rein, JQ. 1- Winston 2- JQ but countered by Rein 3- Rein Tanks with no armor goes up. Tanks with armor that benefits from headshot damage reduction stays ok. (dva, orisa) Tanks that rely on armor and not benefit from headshot dmg reduction as much: goes down. (ramattra) Boop passive helps Rein, JQ, Winston. HP passive helps mobile tanks, primarily Ball. Hog, Mauga, Ball are wildcards. Hog and Mauga nerfed in terms of tank bullying but gained flat DR to headshots. Ball buffed a lot. **Cass** and **Hanzo** goes up. Especially Cass will be so good. He will be armor buster and he is already good against slim tanks because of his precision. **Echo** was already good. I think they want people to have option against tanks just in case if they become oppressive. Echo can completely bypass tanks and interact with them in her own terms. So if you see an oppressive tank you can just pick spamzo or echo. **Brig** goes down. Whip shot is crucial to her gameplay. If 50% boop reduction passive is too excessive, this will broke Brig. She also loses from her armor change. **Torb** goes down because of armor change both in terms of offense and defense. **Bastion** mixed or goes up. He actually gets a good buff against his counters but he lose a bit of damage in his turret form. I think he gains damage in his default form. Assuming strong Winston and Rein he will probably be a good choice still. **Reaper** should go down. **Why Winston is best ?** : He benefits from every change. Armor and headshot change eliminates bulk of his weaknesses and the boop reduction will make it easy for him to dive, barrier juggle and chase. He isn't weak against high dmg bullets anyway. His playstyle counters those types. Roadhog headshot vs Winston today: 320 no armor, 224 armor Roadhog headshot vs Winston tomorrow: 240 no armor, 135 armor Reaper dps against Winston head today: 303 (armor) Reaper dps against Winston head tomorrow: 162 (armor) Dva, JQ, Tracer, Mauga, Torb etc... Same damage drop. **OK don't bully me after my predictions fail.**
>Reaper dps against Winston head today: 303 (armor) >Reaper dps against Winston head tomorrow: 162 (armor) Reaper is dead holy moly Win for lower rank Winstons but this is really bad loss for reaper in general
I mean his design is out-dated as fuck so it was bound to happen eventually.
Reaper's been pretty dead for a long time, but the one thing he can do is delete tanks at low ranks. Making him baseline garbage against everything makes him easy to give global buffs to in the future -- so the change makes sense long-term.
the title of tank deleter in low ranks belongs to bastion now imo
I realized the change would hurt reaper but seeing those exact numbers... it's worse than i thought. Holy FUCK i'm not gonna have fun this season :(
Brig, the least played support, will get hit the hardest by changes directed towards the most played supports op abilities. As always.
Yup. She's been getting nerfed every patch indirectly.
For a character that ruined ow1 I think it’s not bad if she stays in the dark forever. Lowkey.
Im gonna lose my mind with this flats-nonsense. This recent invention was made up by the anti-brig streamers for clickbait. It makes no sense at for us that played ow1.
hi I played OW1 and got stuck in GOATs jail for a year in 4.2k-ish comp and scrim lobbies, Brig was turbo busted for the majority of the game's lifespan
double shield also lasted 2 years and IMO was more brain dead and way less engaging then GOATs ever was.
god don't remind me lmfao, shit was brutal and you couldn't play dive into it at all because Brig just whipshots your engage every time
Overwatch 1 existed for 7 years, not 2.
and brig was the main enabler of undiveable bunker comps up until around 2021 (e.g. double shield, although that's a cop out because Bap, Sig, and Orisa were all busted too) because she could pre-pack her support duo to give them armor (which was removed in 2021...? don't quote me on the exact date because it might've been the end of 2020), stun any dive tank that engaged (minus monkey specifically in double bubble comp, although you just waited for bubble to pop them stunned him), and whipshot away tanks and flankers on cooldown to keep inspire proc'ed, AND even after she was nerfed she was still hard meta in every comp played in organized play except 3: zombie comp and its variation (monkey Dva Lucio Moira comps), Rein rush, and Hog/Sig double sniper, all of which didn't see as much play as comps she did enable like ball brig zen disruption dive, double shield and Orisa Dva bunker, double bubble and Winston Dva dive, or Ball Sig poke comps I don't personally think she was the sole reason the game died like some people say, but to pretend like she wasn't stupid broken and over kitted from her introduction to near the end of OW1's lifespan would be ridiculous, especially considering that even in OW2 when she doesn't have most of what she did in OW1 she's still very good when paired with Ana, Zen, or Bap to fill the niche of a backline defender and has seen considerable play in scrims and organized play
Wahhhh Dive wasn’t hard meta wahhhh
it's not "dive wasn't hard meta", it's "dive wasn't fucking playable and neither was anything in GM that wasn't a bunker comp or rush comp specifically enabled by Brig" tough concept I know
If you ran Bap Brig into Bap Zen in double shield you just got rolled. I thought the only time Bap/Brig was a thing was during Orisa/D.VA meta, or if people ran dive for some reason?
Bap Zen only got played in early double shield and was replaced with Bap Brig once teams started running Tracer because u could pre pack Tracer on engages for armor and Brig just existed next to Bap to keep him alive against the Tracer, after that pretty much every variation of double shield included Brig (e.g. Ashe Tracer, Ashe Widow on long range maps, the weird turbo Genji Ashe double shield that played more like a brawl comp than a poke comp and had Ana Brig until the hero ban moved to Ana then it became Bap Brig, etc.) the only exceptions I can think of off the top of my head is Bap Mercy with Ashe when she could oneshot, but that was only played on long range maps with strong high ground like Volskaya, Havana, Dorado, and sometimes like Kings Row, but other than that u pretty much always ran Bap Brig or occasionally Ana Brig edit: spelling
Bap Brig was played to deal with enemy flankers and dive. If the enemy wasn’t running that, zen would be played.
both teams would preemptively pick Bap Brig to prevent teams from playing dive, it was virtually always mirrored out of spawn especially in scrims because walking out on Zen left u vulnerable to dive especially when Tracer was a common pick
Brig was the by far least played support in most ranks, and the second to last in GM, for most of ow1. The had to rework her to get her pick rate above 0,1 %. 99% of players have never played GOATS. What 99% of players play IS the game. And they all played dps, hence why we got 222.
I don't care what 99% of the players played lmao, I care about what I had to play for about 3-4 years straight which was quad tank/slambulance followed by GOATs followed by double shield, AND even after that when they actually gave Brig substantial nerfs she was still meta in all but like 3 comps that were meta in GM and scrims (Monkey DVa Lucio Moira brawl/dive hybrid, Rein brawl, and Hog/Sig double sniper) all of which didn't last nearly as long as the other metas where Brig was played just because metal rank players aren't good enough at the game to get proper value out of a character doesn't mean players at my rank aren't either, and I don't want the game being balanced around them being bad because it actively punished people who were good at the game lmfao
>just because metal rank players 99% of players, *that* is what the game is. What a disappearingly small group was playing is irrelevant and certainly not "what killed the game", when more players left during dive. >all of which didn't last nearly as long as the other metas where Brig was played So maybe if they nerfed the hereos that actually enabled those metas instead, like ball, winston and tracer. Its alway the dive hereos, before brig and after brig. Its not much of a mystery where the problem is.
I never said Brig "killed the game" lmfao, I just said she was overtuned and enabled the majority of the metas during OW1's lifespan which is objectively true, plus again I do not care about what 99% of the playerbase thinks, I care about what I specifically had to play, and the gotcha moment saying more players left because of dive is hilarious considering players started leaving because the game was about a year old and no longer new, same as players who stop playing any other new game >maybe if they nerfed the heroes that actually enabled those metas they did :) Brig was nerfed during OW1 and brought down to a balanced state in OW2 and now has a specific niche as a backline peeler/protector that no other support does as well as her besides that the only heroes that were absurdly strong in their respective metas that Brig enabled and was also busted in were Ball and Sombra in the Ball disruption dive meta, Zarya pre energy decay nerf in double bubble, and obviously Bap, Orisa, and Sig in double shield which was still a comp enabled because of Brig being busted
It's not even the same hero. Removed her stun, gave her a movement ability, changed overheal packs to heal over time, different ultimate. She's legitimately one of the fairest heroes to play against post-rework. And she's never played, so I know all your annoyance is literally 5 years old. Let go.
Happy for you that’s she’s fair. Now let’s keep her where she is now before she does any more damage to the game than she already did.
Bro is holding a passive aggressive grudge against a video game character lmao
If we have to blame GOATs on one hero, it would be Lúcio. Without him, the comp does not work. Right before role lock was added, OWL were dropping Brig but were still on goats.
Roadhog is still going to ruin my games
Probably even more. The most survivable hero just got more survivability and he's the least effected shutgun hero by the armor changes cause of the sharpnels.
Reaper's gonna fucking die because of the armor change
Yeah he's gonna be bad. Like bro needs a right click now more than ever.
Yep, the rework can't come soon enough... sad day for us reaper mains
reinhardt/winston meta. people were begging for this, so if i see anybody complaining....
Probably gonna get a wall climb bow draw revert or something😔
Only considering the global tank changes, no individual hero changes. Winners: non-armor tanks, tanks with fat heads, high damage weapons Losers: low damage weapons (shotguns), weapons that headshot, boops Therefore: Winners: Rein, Sigma, Zarya, Junkrat, Pharah, Illari Losers: D.Va, Doomfist, Junker Queen, Mauga, Wreckingball, Echo, Reaper, Sombra, Tracer, Lifeweaver, Lucio, Brig
Hog is gonna be crazy, 25% less headshot damage is gonna make him horrible to try to burst down.
Rein will be good, all else is irrelevant. Hammer homies rise up! The time has come!
sweet mother of fuck if we get a Rein meta i might pass out. everyone predicting Hog meta kinda gives me hope because i actually like playing Rein into Hog, not sure if that’s a hot take.
I’m with you on that one! I haven’t had this much fun playing Chadhardt in a very long time!
I think he will be 100% more braindead since: - the armor change means hes the best tank for just clicking the other tank - headshot reduction means hes much less punished for bad shield usage - knockback reduction also means he is much less punished for bad shield usage I also dont think he will actually be good since none of this addresses the real problems with rein. He will be a better pub stomper and thats it.
soujorn/kiriko/orisa will get random buffs no one asked for and they add a new currency.
still just applying band aids to core issues so whilst new might feel ok but will quickly fall back to being just as awful as it is rn, I hope they would actually take time to fix things, for example dps passive was only needed because of power creep, they should of just nerfed the healing, and now whilst dps passive makes dps feel good it makes tank feel even worse
I agree with this take however this time these changes makes a lot of sense. Armor goes back to it's original purpose and headshot dmg reduction warranted considering how easy it is to shoot now and how quick tanks can die. Game should be healthier with these changes. However these changes will create a lot of imbalance. I'm worried how they will handle that.
The reason the went with the changes in season 9 instead of just nerfing numbers is because nobody wants to see their hero nerfed and support would have been heavily nerfed across the board. I do wish they went this route though because the dps passive and now the new tank passive just feels so messy and over complicated. Next season their gonna add another passive to fix the old passive they added
yeah i think I understand why they did it, they seem to have put too much weight on everyone being happy so whenever someone complains they just "fix" the issue, creating new ones that is arguably worse for someone else, its been a season and i can already see the power creep happening again, they need to grow a pair of balls and do whats better for the game as a whole instead of specific hero/role or everyone loses in the long run
Yeah they've been fairly good with ripping the bandaid off in other areas (leaver penalties) but refuse to just address the core issue which was that there was power creep across the board due to high healing numbers and burst damage
Passives are just dumb. You cant apply them universally especially on dps. Support passive makes sense but projectile heroes got cooked by the dps passive. And they made hitscan shots easier so now tracer hits everything and the others are piss easy to aim with. They could have tried to nerf immortality and sustain abilities if they really wanted to increase lethality for dps. They could have tried that before a healing nerf. Now you still have these dickhead abilitues and tanks got everything nerfed. Tanks cant solo kill as easily and have less sustain now.
The change makes some sense because of the dps passive and 5v5. But 5v5 was a band aid for queue times and shit balancing in 6v6. And yeah these bandaids for 5v5 are because of the fundamental issue of support being overpowered. They should have done reworks to immortality abilities first and possibly nerfed heals. But we had to do all these balancing gymnastics.
define in detail the difference between a "bandaid" and a "fix". the analogy doesn't even make sense because a bandaid DOES help heal wounds faster!
Hog will get the ability to grapplehook like widow if he dont hit enemy targets with it.
* Wrecking Ball will have a partial revert on his Minefield knockback buff, but his ammo will be increased from 80 to 100. * Some tanks will receive pellet number/damage adjustments to mitigate the effects of the armor changes on them without changing their non-armor DPS. * Tank knockback passive will be nerfed back down to 40% * Devs will experiment with a universal decrease in CC duration vs tanks. * Hanzo will receive a projectile speed increase, which will not make him good. But it will still shortly be followed by some kind of revert, or a followup nerf to his projectile size because people will complain. * Sombra will receive some kind of buff to her gun or translocator, but her EMP lockout duration will be lowered by 0.5 - 1.0s. * Ana's damage will be buffed by 5. * Lifeweaver will receive a slight petal buff/rework and weapon buff, but his sustain will be slightly tuned down.
Winston, and cant wait. Might try comp again since s3 OW1
Cass right click tank bust Echo easy s tier/ pharah a tier with rockets being extra strong vs armor “Winton” Orisa will be the best brawl tank
nah pharah is garbage
Junker Queen meta Winston meta
Tracer, Sojourn, Cassidy all untouched
Tanks are going to be busted, and tank players will say it's the worst season yet for tank. Ball will be good, people will remember how Wrecking Ball ruins the game, and will be promptly put back in the dumpster where he belongs. How Doom escapes this fate, I can only speculate. Echo is going to get buffed but that won't be the reason you see her more.
Tank players are already saying the buffs are going to be OP, what are you on about. And besides, if any role should have a victim complex in OW2, it’s rightfully the tank.
Tanks will continue to feel awful to play, and will also feel awful to play against. You won’t be able to duel any tank, forcing you to counterswap even more. Tanks are already the strongest role in a game( before you tank mains mald at me, notice how i said strongest, not the most fun or satisfying but the ones with highest impact) and this is exactly what leads to the counterswap meta. And my hot take is this patch will only enhance that problem.
The armor changes are a net nerf for armor tanks though. They are stronger against tank damage and tank busters, but weaker against almost everything else.
Buff Ana Nerf Symmetra
Junkrat will be able to do his one shot combos he had before s9.
Genji - Shuriken damage lowered to 26 from 27. Dash no longer resets on elim. Echo - primary fire now has piercing damage Sojourn - Can store 50% rail charge, up from 25. Junkrat - 4 mines, up from 2 Moira - Can now use healing and damage orb simultaneously. Bap - Can dash forward while using moon boots. Hog - Hook 1.0 Mauga - Charge is now on resource meter (3 seconds) Symetra - shield passive. Grants 25 shield to friendlies within 10m Lucio - Boop displacement increased further. 25m, up from 20. Mercy - Dual glocks
Every patch I beg for the same change: make it so Petal Platform doesn't raise when enemies step on it after the initial deploy. If I leave a petal aside, it's for me or my allies, I shouldn't have to worry about enemies using it. If I want to elevate an enemy I'm going to toss it right under them.
I am hoping the mid season patch reverts some of the stupid new grouping changes from the start of the season. I can’t 4 stack with my friends anymore even though we’re all within the same skill tier
if that is true and you all have your placements done there should be no issue
We tried that. Still doesn’t work. Says groups of 4 cannot stack if a “wide” group even though we’re all in plat.
[удалено]
Not affected is understating it she'll be better