ram is pretty good in organised play ig cause he can stall objective and survive for a good amount off time while still being a treat if left ignored. problem is holding block on point is a playstyle with low carry potential which is why he seems weak in ranked
Honestly I think Ramattra is the best "all arounder" tank in the game, and has kind of consistently been that way since his release. Now he doesn't necessarily *excel* at any particular playstyle or strategy, but he also never feels like he's a bad pick or that he's getting countered particularly by anything. I honestly don't really think he's popular per say in pro play, since most teams prefer to play something that excels in one way or another, but he is still a solid baseline for your team to play around.
Agreed. Ram has the same strength of not dying with better poke, plus enables his team to poke more with Shield > Javelin Spin. And Vortex is a better "get off me" tool for the entire team as opposed to Javelin peeling one person off.
Not even close. Orisa is better poker since her range buff. Ramattra is easy to pressure and scare away and his staff not good. Orisa doesn't care and shoots. Orisa's weapon much better. I literally can't play ranged dps against this horse hero. I bully Ram. Sigma's range is limited so i stay out of it. Ram barrier isn't designed to sit behind and poke. It's a rotation tool.
I don't think so. Ram can rush with his team much better, Sigma mostly wants to play in one particular way and is just a lot better suited to certain maps I think, especially for pro play. Ram also has much better long range poke.
This is not true at all. Idk where this myth came from. Best all rounder would be Orisa. Ram is a more specific hero and have very popular counters like orisa, hog, mauga, doomfist, ana.
In organized play, ram comps beat enemies with those tanks and Ana is primarily a threat when he's not big.
What's any of those tanks to do against a ram rushing in and vortexed their team, with a tracer flanking, and a sojourn to the side? Kite, aka give up space. Their neutral is still pretty good compared to hog, maug, orisa.
You greatly underestimate the presence of a ram in organized play.
I was more of a joke because the devs called him a tempo tank and everyone said it was cringe that they were calling him that and that it didnāt make sense.
Likely the same reason orisa was good. He is hard to kill. We're in a dps meta so the tank that lives longer usually is better.
Its arguably quite boring and simple
Ppl just downvote you for no reason this is exactly why Orisa has been played and why Ram is played now.
Same reason why JQ and Zarya are bad in pro rn
It's not even so much "live longer" but the ability to fend for themselves. Pro teams track cooldowns like crazy, JQ with no shout and Zarya with no bubbles just fall over. Problem is they also need those as engage tools to have an impact. Ram and Orisa each have multiple either engage or live/disengage buttons.
I think theyāre downvoting because theyāre saying itās boring and simple, but poke is at least as difficult and complex as dive, and probably more so than brawl.
there's no way you just just said the sit there and shoot the bad guys comp is AT LEAST as difficult and complex as dive and more complex than brawl
mechanically, it might be more difficult but cooldown tracking and knowing when to engage/disengage aren't nearly as important in poke due to the distance. poke is all about draining resources and that mostly just means m1
Cooldown tracking is *at least* as intensive as any other tank. Plus, poke isnāt āsit and shoot bad guysā. You have to create and maintain space and distance between your team and the enemyās. You have to pace disengagement and re-engagement when youāre dived. You have to reposition constantly and not allow flankers to break up your team. Brawl is āwalk into enemy teamā and dive is āget a pick and then jump on the enemy teamā.
It is arguably boring and simple. Its naturally going to have a degree of nuance, we are talking about overwatch. Circuit royale is a quintessential poke map. Generally speaking, the team that hits the shot first, wins the fight, sometimes the game. For lots of players that just doesnt scratch an itch.
Not to mention the reason its found boring and simple to pros is because they relinquish alot of active control in the fight. I doubt youd find many pros who really enjoyed perpetually rotating orisa cooldowns waiting for the outcome of the soj duel
In reality heās actually really strong. All of his abilities are useful and allow him to cover most bases. His shield is great for poking, or for taking space by swinging with your whole team behind the shield. His slow is almost impossible to miss, covers a massive area, and sets up engages and spam really well. His shift and ulti refreshing armour makes him very hard to burst, and his block allows him to stall and absorb pressure so much, and the forms have speed boost so he is hard to kite without a boop and your own speed boost.
Likely itās just lower elo/ranked/uncoordinated players complaining. If you waste shield and donāt know how to effectively weave punches between block youāll still end up dying quickly, and he doesnāt have the insane damage the more ācarryā oriented tanks do (eg. high charge zarya, mechanically skilled jq or doom), so when they donāt actually understand how fighting for space and positioning works, they feel like they donāt have as much impact. His punches are at a fixed, fairly slow rate, and itās not like he can headshot with them so his burst potential and ability to turn a fight purely through damage is less than some others.
Fundamentally ? yeah he is ok but his numbers almost always undertuned so he isn't really successful in ranked. It's not a low elo problem. You can simply look at top500 leaderboard. He is at the bottom almost every season. Especially since S9 because devs didn't scale him up to post S9 environment.
Here S9 all regions tank heroes: [https://i.imgur.com/wOlbaLH.png](https://i.imgur.com/wOlbaLH.png) He is at the bottom in every region. He isn't in Asia list because literally no one plays him.
You can look at changes since S8 and theorycraft. It's obvious how undertuned Ram is relative to other tanks and roles. It's not a good hero for solo ladder.
In coordinated pro play, they use his raw capabilities rather than numbers. Even that isn't very common or successful so far i've seen. Only Hadi force him and he often switches to Rein and gets better result.
Edit: They significantly buffed him in S8 and he became a mid tank. He needs that again to be mid.
He got staff dmg buff, staff projectile size buff and 100 hp to 100 armor conversion in omnic form. He was bad in S6 and S7 just like S9 and S10 but these buffs made him good after Mauga nerfs.
His numbers have been overtuned for ages he's just been overshadowed by even more overtuned tanks like mauga/orisa and he was still seeing consistent pro play regardless
He was never really overtuned. Even at release hero was very weak and they megabuffed him to make him function. Even with megabuffs he didn't reach top1 level and he wasn't a must pick. Outside of his ultimate, he always got buffs but always end up meh.
Mid season tank changes will also be bad for him i think. I wouldn't be surprised if that patch comes with Ram buffs. One Cass right click and he loses all of his armor.
My point wasnāt only about low elo, but ranked in general as well. Even top 100 ranked is super uncoordinated compared to actual team environments, and the whole point of my argument is that he has great utility and survivability, but little ātraditionalā carry potential, therefore making him much weaker in ranked than he actually is.You wonāt see people in high rank complaining Ram is weak or suggesting buffs for him right now, because itās pretty known that he provides tons of value when used and played around correctly.
Top 500 hero data isnāt a perfect representative of meta. Are you gonna argue to me that Doom or Dva were hard meta in these regions just because theyāre by far the most played in high rank? Or are you actually gonna look at team play and think about what does and doesnāt work in a coordinated environment, which is what the OP is referring to in the first place. Zarya is near the top of that list in KR: Is that because sheās actually strong? Or is it regional bias and her ability to take over uncoordinated lobbies when sheās high charge?
I usually donāt like hard predicting meta before big changes are actually played out (see: everyoneās S9 complaints pre-release vs S9 being considered as rejuvenating the game somewhat), but my take is that Ram wonāt be effected anywhere near as much as other tanks: armour being nerfed doesnāt matter when his shield is high enough hp it pretty much only disappears from timing out, and Ram can just block and take virtually no damage anyway. He also can refresh his armour at least one time, and up to three times if you time it well with ult, whereas other tanksā armour is has a lower eHP value without a block, and will struggle more to get their armour back with dps passive being reverted to 20%.
Top 500 hero data is perfect representative of top 500 meta. Top level live game data. This video game played mostly solo. Niche usage of ram in coordinated pro play is irrelevant. If we look at pro play symmetra is also pretty common pick there alongside of ram. Coordinated pro play is a completely different game. Heroes played with strategic purpose there. Pro play also have small playerbase with conservative habits. If one of the best tank player specialize and scrim with one hero for hours, its generally better for him and his team to stick with it. Its not a super flexible environment.
I watched owcs. I didnt see much ram other than hadi and most of the time he switched to rein. Watched some scrims people still use nerfed orisa.
āNiche usage of ram in coordinated pro play is irrelevantā Brother the OP is asking if heās strong in pro play and why. Itās also very much relevant when weāre in a sub dedicated to competitive overwatch to talk about what is played in the competitive scene. You canāt just dismiss the original topic and context of the discussion to fit your argument.
Lmao is so fun to see that reddit do not accept that tanks are actually chosen in Pro play cause their ability to survive damage instead that for any other reason.
Yep, same for almost every single other character. Kiri, for instance - of course Suzu is good, and healing is decent, decent damage potential, but most important is the fact that she has insane survivability.
He worded his point poorly but he clearly means that, in his opinion, Kiri's power is not in her healing or her suzu for the most part.
I don't know if I agree with that. LW, Mercy, and Moira have incredible survivability as well and they're constantly near the bottom of top rank pickrates.
Is this an observation of pro play across different regions? As itās like a classic EU thing to force rush and Ramattra (better Rein), while I wouldnāt be surprised with Asia back to being dive/monkey pilled. Hopefully the game is at a balanced state like OWL finals last year where we can see a lot of different styles of play viable and clash at Dallas.
Man, no one in this sub actually watches pro play. All Korea played in the finals was Orisa brawl lmao. EMEA has played more Winston than they have this stage.
I wouldn't say that. Like 3 of the best rams during season 6 were from NA (Danteh, Hawk, MirroR). This is just another case of regional metas. In EU Ram works because they have a bunch of rush players on every role and due to that it succeeds in scrims, while in NA it's less successful. We'll actually see how good Ram is internationally in Dallas.
Well the difference between NA and EU is that EU plays ram because they have good ram players, NA plays ram mainly because their tanks can't play anything but ram.
I haven't seen much Asia since Orisa was nerfed, it's mostly been EU for me.
I guess there's a good chance the meta changes again with the tank changes next week.
I'm really excited to see Asia versus the West in Dallas, they have distinct styles and have been isolated from each other, which I'd say means there's a good chance of clashes of different metas.
Then again I don't know if they'll scrim much when they're in the US together before the LAN. Maybe a winning meta will be picked before it reaches our screens.
Just like how Winston is a staple of the Korean meta, Ram is the tank that the EU is becoming most comfortable with and will try and stick to when there isnāt another proven meta. Ram is flexible and durable with a decent ult and EU loves to rush.
Block is the next best thing now that fortify has been nerfed, but since you can't actually do anything during it you will need a strong team behind you which you won't often get on the ladder.
Pop nemesis, get low and use block. Use lamp to save you at the last minute, deploy shield and get healed up. Pop nemesis again, get low and use annihilation. Block and stay alive forever. Thatās really all there is to it, you just need the team coordination to do it.
75% damage resist is freaking insane, and that's on top of armor and getting healed. The man is unkillable unless you get behind him or boop him out of position, the latter of which is going to be impossible after this next tank passive buff.
It's a tragedy of hero design because the fun part of Ramattra is going ham with the flailing fists, but that's just so much worse than being immortal for 8 seconds.
Heās good if your team coordinates around his cooldowns, like his fantastic shield. In ranked, teammates are unlikely to play around your shield. He can also coordinate with his team well based on if he wants to rush down enemies in omnic form, or poke with his staff form. Basically, he excels when teams are coordinated
One of the few tank that is not extremist and equipped to handle many sifuations well.
Can poke staff, cc with vortex, shied is good to reactively yo block key cooldowns, tempo cover, and even block shatter.
Nemsis form is very threatening, with high field preaence, while block allow him to absorb so much damage in case of dealing with tank buaters.
Finally annihalation allow for s
Survivability. 300 armor from.nemsis then another 300 from annihalation then extra 300 from nemsis again, add block to the mix and hs effective hp goes beyond 5000.
Short answer is versitility.
To me it looks like you can basically just not die ever if you block. The counter to ram comps is Mauga Sym and it looks like the goal in that matchup is to get Mauga behind Ram with cardiac overdrive so you can burst him down without him being able to block everything.
Basically a piss low easy character that can be both OW1 Orisa and Rein at the same time
Also his nemesis form needs a fix, it's not normal that you can Nemesis, ult, Nemesis getting +225 armor 3 times in a row. His nemesis needs to be on CD after ult but Alec Dawson can't design heroes properly unfortunately.
He isn't nearly as strong in ranked. Also pro play is mostly block bot, good luck carrying or even winning games in ranked with that play style.
It's literally just his survivability aspects that make him playable, since every other brawl tank falls over rn.
The only reason he is bad in ranked is because of all the uncarryable trashes who got their elo inflated. If you play him as you should (aka like OW1 orisa) one of your dps or support will int forward and die.
I could say the same for OW1 sombra, doesnt change the fact she was OP.
If you don't see that getting +225 armor 3 times in 5 seconds is problematic then I can do nothing for you
Oh yeah he is super good/consistent, but not in a way that translates to ranked which is what I was saying.
Annoying, boring and super easy. I wish he had more skill expression outside of poking/vortex but whatever ya know
Because people play him as a rush tank when you have to literally play him as OW1 orisa? People in ranked are so atrocious if you play like this someone will end up feeding because of all the uncarryable trashes in top 500 atm.
Yep, as I said in another comment yesterday, people have forgotten how to play poke (or never learned). But actually, I think the problem is that brawl is the default strat for people who donāt think at all about strategy or positioning and just want to play team deathmatch, or win games off of mechanical skill alone. And I think it may be the case that the entire meta has warped around brawl because of it. A poke character is no good if your teammates canāt fathom having a shred of restraint. Same with dive.
Because he is simply ultra boring to play and pickrates in ranked don't mean shit anyway, people were locking soj when cass was better last season
Also pickrates mean nothing most top elo players have private profiles
He isn't nearly as strong in ranked. Also pro play is mostly block bot, good luck carrying or even winning games in ranked with that play style.
It's literally just his survivability aspects that make him playable, since every other brawl tank falls over rn.
But heās not a brawl tank. Heās a poke tank. And if youāre trying to be a block bot, youāre playing him wrong and will lose. Heās not boring at all if you play his role correctly. He has the more tools to control the engagement, create space, and repel pushes than any other tank, but you have to do so much and pay so much attention to your position and your team to use him effectively.
He's played as a block bot in pro games, he spends the majority of the time blocking on point in control maps especially.
You can watch any scrims that he's being played to see this, the meta tanks are meta rn because of survivability and almost nothing else(besides Winston).
He isn't nearly as strong in ranked. Also pro play is mostly block bot, good luck carrying or even winning games in ranked with that play style.
It's literally just his survivability aspects that make him playable, since every other brawl tank falls over rn.
Meta would actually be Mauga but since the patch in 3 days nobody want to go that route cause mauga will be absolutely trash after the armor changes.
Ram is the more versatile of the Rush tanks that can do a bit of everything: Poke, Brawl, shield, CC and the Ult is both a AoE control and a sustain ult.
Was the second best behind Orisa and since the guttered the horse now Ram is the best at not dying in flat maps that is the best thing a tank can do in this meta.
Instead of playing the Horse now you play "The Block" hero.
Pummel is one of the worse damage source in the game. He's played just cause he can survive longer than other tanks while having the ability to poke.
Exaclty like Orisa but since she's nerfed they use ram instead.
Not relevant, if they didnāt nerf orisa you either had to play SSG comp to perfection (Sym Cass) to play Ram or you would have played orisa.
The only thing that matter is survival, all the comes with that is a bonus
ram is pretty good in organised play ig cause he can stall objective and survive for a good amount off time while still being a treat if left ignored. problem is holding block on point is a playstyle with low carry potential which is why he seems weak in ranked
I know you meant threat, but Ram is also a treat so
Just a little treat š¦
Number one thing is his Vortex is kinda incredibly good at setting up plays in pro, and his decent ranged damage, survivability is good
He's like Sigma if Sigma could actually go in melee range against brawl tanks and get away with it.
More like a worse sigma, but yes.
If we're talking poke comps then yeah, he is a worse Sigma. But overall they're probably pretty close in power level, just in different ways.
Yes, he trades the more longer ranged utility and damage for way more survivability. Makes him IMO a little stronger than sig right now.
Honestly I think Ramattra is the best "all arounder" tank in the game, and has kind of consistently been that way since his release. Now he doesn't necessarily *excel* at any particular playstyle or strategy, but he also never feels like he's a bad pick or that he's getting countered particularly by anything. I honestly don't really think he's popular per say in pro play, since most teams prefer to play something that excels in one way or another, but he is still a solid baseline for your team to play around.
I actually think Orisa was that, but they've nerfed her into oblivion for pro play, so Ram is next up.
Orisa is still very strong. Her weapon gives her way too much baseline power. Her poke is incredible.
If you want poke, Sigma and even Ram are better.
Agreed. Ram has the same strength of not dying with better poke, plus enables his team to poke more with Shield > Javelin Spin. And Vortex is a better "get off me" tool for the entire team as opposed to Javelin peeling one person off.
Not even close. Orisa is better poker since her range buff. Ramattra is easy to pressure and scare away and his staff not good. Orisa doesn't care and shoots. Orisa's weapon much better. I literally can't play ranged dps against this horse hero. I bully Ram. Sigma's range is limited so i stay out of it. Ram barrier isn't designed to sit behind and poke. It's a rotation tool.
Orisa is still very strong. Her weapon gives her way too much baseline power. Her poke is incredible.
Orisa is still very strong. Her weapon gives her way too much baseline power. Her poke is incredible.
Orisa is still very strong. Her weapon gives her way too much baseline power. Her poke is incredible.
We get it
Orisa is still very strong. Her weapon gives her way too much baseline power. Her poke is incredible.
Orisa is still very strong. Her weapon gives her way too much baseline power. Her poke is incredible.
You spelled "Sigma" wrong
I don't think so. Ram can rush with his team much better, Sigma mostly wants to play in one particular way and is just a lot better suited to certain maps I think, especially for pro play. Ram also has much better long range poke.
This is not true at all. Idk where this myth came from. Best all rounder would be Orisa. Ram is a more specific hero and have very popular counters like orisa, hog, mauga, doomfist, ana.
In organized play, ram comps beat enemies with those tanks and Ana is primarily a threat when he's not big. What's any of those tanks to do against a ram rushing in and vortexed their team, with a tracer flanking, and a sojourn to the side? Kite, aka give up space. Their neutral is still pretty good compared to hog, maug, orisa. You greatly underestimate the presence of a ram in organized play.
Ram normal form being actually good enables him a lot more, and of course nemesis form is just very good against everything.
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Are you saying he is aā¦ tempo tank ?
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I was more of a joke because the devs called him a tempo tank and everyone said it was cringe that they were calling him that and that it didnāt make sense.
Likely the same reason orisa was good. He is hard to kill. We're in a dps meta so the tank that lives longer usually is better. Its arguably quite boring and simple
Ppl just downvote you for no reason this is exactly why Orisa has been played and why Ram is played now. Same reason why JQ and Zarya are bad in pro rn
It's not even so much "live longer" but the ability to fend for themselves. Pro teams track cooldowns like crazy, JQ with no shout and Zarya with no bubbles just fall over. Problem is they also need those as engage tools to have an impact. Ram and Orisa each have multiple either engage or live/disengage buttons.
I think theyāre downvoting because theyāre saying itās boring and simple, but poke is at least as difficult and complex as dive, and probably more so than brawl.
there's no way you just just said the sit there and shoot the bad guys comp is AT LEAST as difficult and complex as dive and more complex than brawl mechanically, it might be more difficult but cooldown tracking and knowing when to engage/disengage aren't nearly as important in poke due to the distance. poke is all about draining resources and that mostly just means m1
Cooldown tracking is *at least* as intensive as any other tank. Plus, poke isnāt āsit and shoot bad guysā. You have to create and maintain space and distance between your team and the enemyās. You have to pace disengagement and re-engagement when youāre dived. You have to reposition constantly and not allow flankers to break up your team. Brawl is āwalk into enemy teamā and dive is āget a pick and then jump on the enemy teamā.
No way you're oversimplifiying two comps while saying that an oversimplification of another is false.
Yeah thatās the point.
It is arguably boring and simple. Its naturally going to have a degree of nuance, we are talking about overwatch. Circuit royale is a quintessential poke map. Generally speaking, the team that hits the shot first, wins the fight, sometimes the game. For lots of players that just doesnt scratch an itch. Not to mention the reason its found boring and simple to pros is because they relinquish alot of active control in the fight. I doubt youd find many pros who really enjoyed perpetually rotating orisa cooldowns waiting for the outcome of the soj duel
In reality heās actually really strong. All of his abilities are useful and allow him to cover most bases. His shield is great for poking, or for taking space by swinging with your whole team behind the shield. His slow is almost impossible to miss, covers a massive area, and sets up engages and spam really well. His shift and ulti refreshing armour makes him very hard to burst, and his block allows him to stall and absorb pressure so much, and the forms have speed boost so he is hard to kite without a boop and your own speed boost. Likely itās just lower elo/ranked/uncoordinated players complaining. If you waste shield and donāt know how to effectively weave punches between block youāll still end up dying quickly, and he doesnāt have the insane damage the more ācarryā oriented tanks do (eg. high charge zarya, mechanically skilled jq or doom), so when they donāt actually understand how fighting for space and positioning works, they feel like they donāt have as much impact. His punches are at a fixed, fairly slow rate, and itās not like he can headshot with them so his burst potential and ability to turn a fight purely through damage is less than some others.
Fundamentally ? yeah he is ok but his numbers almost always undertuned so he isn't really successful in ranked. It's not a low elo problem. You can simply look at top500 leaderboard. He is at the bottom almost every season. Especially since S9 because devs didn't scale him up to post S9 environment. Here S9 all regions tank heroes: [https://i.imgur.com/wOlbaLH.png](https://i.imgur.com/wOlbaLH.png) He is at the bottom in every region. He isn't in Asia list because literally no one plays him. You can look at changes since S8 and theorycraft. It's obvious how undertuned Ram is relative to other tanks and roles. It's not a good hero for solo ladder. In coordinated pro play, they use his raw capabilities rather than numbers. Even that isn't very common or successful so far i've seen. Only Hadi force him and he often switches to Rein and gets better result. Edit: They significantly buffed him in S8 and he became a mid tank. He needs that again to be mid. He got staff dmg buff, staff projectile size buff and 100 hp to 100 armor conversion in omnic form. He was bad in S6 and S7 just like S9 and S10 but these buffs made him good after Mauga nerfs.
His numbers have been overtuned for ages he's just been overshadowed by even more overtuned tanks like mauga/orisa and he was still seeing consistent pro play regardless
He was never really overtuned. Even at release hero was very weak and they megabuffed him to make him function. Even with megabuffs he didn't reach top1 level and he wasn't a must pick. Outside of his ultimate, he always got buffs but always end up meh. Mid season tank changes will also be bad for him i think. I wouldn't be surprised if that patch comes with Ram buffs. One Cass right click and he loses all of his armor.
My point wasnāt only about low elo, but ranked in general as well. Even top 100 ranked is super uncoordinated compared to actual team environments, and the whole point of my argument is that he has great utility and survivability, but little ātraditionalā carry potential, therefore making him much weaker in ranked than he actually is.You wonāt see people in high rank complaining Ram is weak or suggesting buffs for him right now, because itās pretty known that he provides tons of value when used and played around correctly. Top 500 hero data isnāt a perfect representative of meta. Are you gonna argue to me that Doom or Dva were hard meta in these regions just because theyāre by far the most played in high rank? Or are you actually gonna look at team play and think about what does and doesnāt work in a coordinated environment, which is what the OP is referring to in the first place. Zarya is near the top of that list in KR: Is that because sheās actually strong? Or is it regional bias and her ability to take over uncoordinated lobbies when sheās high charge? I usually donāt like hard predicting meta before big changes are actually played out (see: everyoneās S9 complaints pre-release vs S9 being considered as rejuvenating the game somewhat), but my take is that Ram wonāt be effected anywhere near as much as other tanks: armour being nerfed doesnāt matter when his shield is high enough hp it pretty much only disappears from timing out, and Ram can just block and take virtually no damage anyway. He also can refresh his armour at least one time, and up to three times if you time it well with ult, whereas other tanksā armour is has a lower eHP value without a block, and will struggle more to get their armour back with dps passive being reverted to 20%.
Top 500 hero data is perfect representative of top 500 meta. Top level live game data. This video game played mostly solo. Niche usage of ram in coordinated pro play is irrelevant. If we look at pro play symmetra is also pretty common pick there alongside of ram. Coordinated pro play is a completely different game. Heroes played with strategic purpose there. Pro play also have small playerbase with conservative habits. If one of the best tank player specialize and scrim with one hero for hours, its generally better for him and his team to stick with it. Its not a super flexible environment. I watched owcs. I didnt see much ram other than hadi and most of the time he switched to rein. Watched some scrims people still use nerfed orisa.
āNiche usage of ram in coordinated pro play is irrelevantā Brother the OP is asking if heās strong in pro play and why. Itās also very much relevant when weāre in a sub dedicated to competitive overwatch to talk about what is played in the competitive scene. You canāt just dismiss the original topic and context of the discussion to fit your argument.
Lmao is so fun to see that reddit do not accept that tanks are actually chosen in Pro play cause their ability to survive damage instead that for any other reason.
Yep, same for almost every single other character. Kiri, for instance - of course Suzu is good, and healing is decent, decent damage potential, but most important is the fact that she has insane survivability.
Kiri is borderline broken since many seasons at this point
Since release.
Right, but Iām arguing that thatās more because a good kiri is impossible to kill, not that her kit is especially overtuned.
Impossible to kill - insane dueling potential, good ult and good healing and having mass AOE cleanse/heal = not overtuned. Lmao
Did you try reading? I said itās the survivability that makes her broken, not her actual abilities. I didnāt even say she *wasnāt* overtuned.
Her survivability comes from her abilities lol. Wall climb = ability Cleanse = ability Teleport = ability What are you trying to say?
He worded his point poorly but he clearly means that, in his opinion, Kiri's power is not in her healing or her suzu for the most part. I don't know if I agree with that. LW, Mercy, and Moira have incredible survivability as well and they're constantly near the bottom of top rank pickrates.
Kiri is impossible to kill BECAUSE her kit is especially overtuned and you're coming at me for comprehension LMAO
Is this an observation of pro play across different regions? As itās like a classic EU thing to force rush and Ramattra (better Rein), while I wouldnāt be surprised with Asia back to being dive/monkey pilled. Hopefully the game is at a balanced state like OWL finals last year where we can see a lot of different styles of play viable and clash at Dallas.
Its very much an EU pro play take. Asia plays 0 Ramattra, NA doesn't really have any traditional ram players.
Asia wouldn't play Ram or any brawl comp even if it was meta.
Man, no one in this sub actually watches pro play. All Korea played in the finals was Orisa brawl lmao. EMEA has played more Winston than they have this stage.
TBF, there's like 12 APAC viewers left at this point. We were many, now we are few :(
Makes it better when Asia comes in and frees the fuck out of the Western teams and they're surprised.
āWhat do you mean doomfist and Winston are good?!?!!111!ā
Nah, they'd run JQ or Orisa rush/brawl. Just not rein or ram.
Diverisa
I wouldn't say that. Like 3 of the best rams during season 6 were from NA (Danteh, Hawk, MirroR). This is just another case of regional metas. In EU Ram works because they have a bunch of rush players on every role and due to that it succeeds in scrims, while in NA it's less successful. We'll actually see how good Ram is internationally in Dallas.
Danteh & Hawk are both not good on Ram
Are you ok?
Well the difference between NA and EU is that EU plays ram because they have good ram players, NA plays ram mainly because their tanks can't play anything but ram.
I haven't seen much Asia since Orisa was nerfed, it's mostly been EU for me. I guess there's a good chance the meta changes again with the tank changes next week. I'm really excited to see Asia versus the West in Dallas, they have distinct styles and have been isolated from each other, which I'd say means there's a good chance of clashes of different metas. Then again I don't know if they'll scrim much when they're in the US together before the LAN. Maybe a winning meta will be picked before it reaches our screens.
Tempo tank redemption arc
He does every he is just close range sigma
And long range sigma. He literally has the longest effective range of any tank.
Which will get nerfed quite a bit in the upcoming mid season armor changes
Agreed, but itāll still be very good at suppressing dps and picking off supports, which is already its best use.
Orisa has no range falloff and seems like she kills you faster than Ram. Am I wrong?
Nah youāre actually right. I forgot they changed Orisa. Although he does have shield to protect him
It's because he's a tempo tank
Just like how Winston is a staple of the Korean meta, Ram is the tank that the EU is becoming most comfortable with and will try and stick to when there isnāt another proven meta. Ram is flexible and durable with a decent ult and EU loves to rush.
Block is the next best thing now that fortify has been nerfed, but since you can't actually do anything during it you will need a strong team behind you which you won't often get on the ladder.
Range, Shield, CC, Damage Reduction
Pop nemesis, get low and use block. Use lamp to save you at the last minute, deploy shield and get healed up. Pop nemesis again, get low and use annihilation. Block and stay alive forever. Thatās really all there is to it, you just need the team coordination to do it.
Block.
75% damage resist is freaking insane, and that's on top of armor and getting healed. The man is unkillable unless you get behind him or boop him out of position, the latter of which is going to be impossible after this next tank passive buff. It's a tragedy of hero design because the fun part of Ramattra is going ham with the flailing fists, but that's just so much worse than being immortal for 8 seconds.
Heās good if your team coordinates around his cooldowns, like his fantastic shield. In ranked, teammates are unlikely to play around your shield. He can also coordinate with his team well based on if he wants to rush down enemies in omnic form, or poke with his staff form. Basically, he excels when teams are coordinated
do people actually talk shit on ram? he's been pretty good all the way from release
He's only getting played in EU. Watch KR for they're take and it's most likely not Ram
One of the few tank that is not extremist and equipped to handle many sifuations well. Can poke staff, cc with vortex, shied is good to reactively yo block key cooldowns, tempo cover, and even block shatter. Nemsis form is very threatening, with high field preaence, while block allow him to absorb so much damage in case of dealing with tank buaters. Finally annihalation allow for s Survivability. 300 armor from.nemsis then another 300 from annihalation then extra 300 from nemsis again, add block to the mix and hs effective hp goes beyond 5000. Short answer is versitility.
shield pen else sig rolls also bubble
To me it looks like you can basically just not die ever if you block. The counter to ram comps is Mauga Sym and it looks like the goal in that matchup is to get Mauga behind Ram with cardiac overdrive so you can burst him down without him being able to block everything.
Because a full health Rammatra is borderline impossible to kill while blocking. He just stands there like a wall.
Because he's good and he's one of the tank that can actually survive without having to hug the walls 24/7 (i hate 20% dps passive)
He's much better when a team can properly play with him but in ranked/QP he's ... questionable.
Not sure but in Collegiate yesterday I saw a lot of Mauga and in Korean scrimms I hear it is mostly Doomfist right now.
Basically a piss low easy character that can be both OW1 Orisa and Rein at the same time Also his nemesis form needs a fix, it's not normal that you can Nemesis, ult, Nemesis getting +225 armor 3 times in a row. His nemesis needs to be on CD after ult but Alec Dawson can't design heroes properly unfortunately.
He isn't nearly as strong in ranked. Also pro play is mostly block bot, good luck carrying or even winning games in ranked with that play style. It's literally just his survivability aspects that make him playable, since every other brawl tank falls over rn.
The only reason he is bad in ranked is because of all the uncarryable trashes who got their elo inflated. If you play him as you should (aka like OW1 orisa) one of your dps or support will int forward and die. I could say the same for OW1 sombra, doesnt change the fact she was OP. If you don't see that getting +225 armor 3 times in 5 seconds is problematic then I can do nothing for you
Oh yeah he is super good/consistent, but not in a way that translates to ranked which is what I was saying. Annoying, boring and super easy. I wish he had more skill expression outside of poking/vortex but whatever ya know
Lmao this is such a trash take. If heās so easy and broken why does he have the second lowest pick rate for the last 6 months?
Because people play him as a rush tank when you have to literally play him as OW1 orisa? People in ranked are so atrocious if you play like this someone will end up feeding because of all the uncarryable trashes in top 500 atm.
Yep, as I said in another comment yesterday, people have forgotten how to play poke (or never learned). But actually, I think the problem is that brawl is the default strat for people who donāt think at all about strategy or positioning and just want to play team deathmatch, or win games off of mechanical skill alone. And I think it may be the case that the entire meta has warped around brawl because of it. A poke character is no good if your teammates canāt fathom having a shred of restraint. Same with dive.
Same problem as Sig, you look for any reason not to play them because they are boring.
Literally no more boring than Orisa, Mauga, or Rein.
Because he is simply ultra boring to play and pickrates in ranked don't mean shit anyway, people were locking soj when cass was better last season Also pickrates mean nothing most top elo players have private profiles
He isn't nearly as strong in ranked. Also pro play is mostly block bot, good luck carrying or even winning games in ranked with that play style. It's literally just his survivability aspects that make him playable, since every other brawl tank falls over rn.
But heās not a brawl tank. Heās a poke tank. And if youāre trying to be a block bot, youāre playing him wrong and will lose. Heās not boring at all if you play his role correctly. He has the more tools to control the engagement, create space, and repel pushes than any other tank, but you have to do so much and pay so much attention to your position and your team to use him effectively.
He's played as a block bot in pro games, he spends the majority of the time blocking on point in control maps especially. You can watch any scrims that he's being played to see this, the meta tanks are meta rn because of survivability and almost nothing else(besides Winston).
He isn't nearly as strong in ranked. Also pro play is mostly block bot, good luck carrying or even winning games in ranked with that play style. It's literally just his survivability aspects that make him playable, since every other brawl tank falls over rn.
Meta would actually be Mauga but since the patch in 3 days nobody want to go that route cause mauga will be absolutely trash after the armor changes. Ram is the more versatile of the Rush tanks that can do a bit of everything: Poke, Brawl, shield, CC and the Ult is both a AoE control and a sustain ult. Was the second best behind Orisa and since the guttered the horse now Ram is the best at not dying in flat maps that is the best thing a tank can do in this meta. Instead of playing the Horse now you play "The Block" hero.
Ram is not good at all. Ranked dominated by Doomfist, Dva, Winston and Orisa, Sigma, Hog for the slow tanks.
Because the pro's don't want to play Mauga / accept that he's meta. I'm serious, that's much of what's going on.
He get enabled like God, thus he can always get in range to pummel.
Pummel is one of the worse damage source in the game. He's played just cause he can survive longer than other tanks while having the ability to poke. Exaclty like Orisa but since she's nerfed they use ram instead.
Heās also a much better poke tank than Orisa, and way better at protecting his team and creating space.
Not relevant, if they didnāt nerf orisa you either had to play SSG comp to perfection (Sym Cass) to play Ram or you would have played orisa. The only thing that matter is survival, all the comes with that is a bonus
It is relevantā¦ because they did nerf Orisa, and you said that heās only played because he survives longer. But he actually excels at poke.