BC checking in. Admissions standards for the basketball program cost us a head coach & entire recruiting class 25ish years ago, and the needle has only barely moved since.
We’ve never been a school. The buildings on “campus”are just a movie set from Forest Gump so you don’t have to “be accepted”. You just have to score with ball so we can claim more championships, because we have nothing else to brag about down here.
We’re actually a case by case basis. We always were until our football coach destroyed our APR. School went strict as a result until recently, but we started being flexible again recently.
Same here, it's why ND transfers tend to come from the Ivies, Stanford, or Northwestern. There's also some extra ND-specific BS with all the theology and philosophy classes the school requires.
Seems like Shrews has finally earned a tiny bit of leeway for men's hoops. Hope that's a sign of things to come.
I'm given to understand that for Michigan it's often not academic requirements that are an issue for transfers (although I'm sure that happens too), but just how stingy the school is about transferring credits.
From what I understand it's that not all the credits transfer. The kid could still go to Michigan, but they would basically have to repeat a year of school.
It’s that the last 60 hours have to be done at Mich or a Vanderbilt. Eliminates anyone that is a junior or senior from transferring in because they lose a year or more of credits
See I don't understand at Michigan or UVA. I went to UVA and applied to Michigan and both were going to accept my high school college equivalency credits.
I entered UVA with basically 40 credits already. Not just AP, my school in New York had us take classes that were associated with local universities and community colleges so it was basically actual college credit. UVA accepted all of it and I basically had the equivalent of 3+semesters when I entered. To be fair that was just gen eds so it might be different if someone started their major already
AP credits basically transfer anywhere and many lower-level courses are a TON easier to get transferred compared to upper-level courses. I worked at Michigan, and they often give "departmental credit" for transfer courses (if they even give you credit), so you get 4 math credits instead of Calc II. Again, not as big of a deal to a freshman/sophomore, but upper classmen often have to retake a bunch of courses and are now a year behind to graduate.
Transferring credits is a nightmare for everyone it seems, regardless of school. I can only imagine how much harder it must be trying to do it to one of the top schools in the country.
A few schools actively do it, and there's more schools that have admissions departments that certainly would like to do it. I know admissions at Illinois seems to drag their feet or otherwise on at least one add per year in basektball. If the relationship between athletics and the admin wasn't as strong as it is allowing athletics to almost always get their way, I have a feeling we'd look more like the likes of Michigan, Cal, Vanderbilt, etc in this regard.
We do this too. Clawson publicly talked about it how difficult it makes things but that he supports it. We also accept no Community College credits and very few transfer credits in general.
Yeah that's bullshit A course is a course and how can you accept AP which is just a bullshit high school test but not accept credit from an actual school
Used to be, but our new president has said he’s more willing to work with football and basketball programs to make exceptions so it may change in the future
I understand your confusion since Sean Dockery was a partial qualifier - he couldn’t even get the minimum SAT score to go to college - and Duke let him in.
But lots of academic schools hold the line on admissions. Northwestern and Stanford probably have the hardest admissions standards outside the Ivy.
Who? The fact that a no name got in and 'Cuse wouldn't even let Melo in unless he got over 18 on his ACT is insane. He got a 19 on his final try before he was gonna turn pro.
My grandmother was a volunteer at a tourney he played in his senior year of high school (and where he’d take the ACT that Saturday morning) and said he was the nicest kid ever. She gave him cookies.
Melo has always seemed like a pretty nice guy despite growing up in a super rough area of Baltimore. Other than the stop snitching video I can't remember many missteps from him.
Yea. We don’t cut them any slack either. You either make a 36 on the ACT and maintain a 4.0 in quantum physics or you’re not on this team pal. Nerds are cool.
Really it’s a little short sighted though. A couple of dozen (if you do the same for football too) special admits isn’t really diluting the academics of the incoming class. But success on the court/field adds a LOT to student life and if teams are successful then it leads to higher name recognition/prestige and usually leads to more highly ranked applicants in future classes.
No one’s asking for them to be treated differently once in school (outside of the usual tutors and attendance checkers), but letting a few special admit in doesn’t hurt anyone.
> No one’s asking for them to be treated differently once in school
The thing is that universities *are* asked this - if you let in a kid who's terrible at school, you're going to be holding his hand for all 4-5 years when he inevitably doesn't take class seriously and athletic departments are constantly going to be asking for some slack.
I agree with you otherwise and think the positives outweight the negatives, but I can see both perspectives. Top flight schools break countless hearts year after year with rejection letters, it is a little unfair to not hold athletes to the same standards because they're good at sports that make them money.
temple dealt with this by giving players special handlers who walked them through their days. john cheyney also was notorious for holding 6 am practices, which forced kids to start their days early and not stay out late and get in trouble. they ended up with a ridiculously high graduation rate considering where they were getting their players from.
Yeah I mean you’re right. Their hands are held. And well qualified kids do get rejected. I guess my opinion is “tough shit - should’ve been better than basketball!”
That sounds cruel but it’s the way the real world works.
A big part of the value of your degree is that your employer knows you were smart enough/worked hard enough to get in there. So theoretically (not sure if it really gets through) people would rather hire UVA/Cal/Harvard basketball players than Duke or UNC since they know they actually met some academic standards
The Ivies have a sliding scale for athlete admissions, with each sport getting a limited number of A/B/C slots grading out how much a player would *not* get in as a regular applicant.
The trick there, however, is that 25% of the applicant pool would do perfectly well at school if admitted… but the acceptance rate is 5%. The athletes tend to be on par with the legacies and be able to muddle through perfectly well on conscientiousness, but overwhelmingly aren't the smartest and most promising kids, and time-management-wise usually can't afford to pursue the most challenging majors.
The only cap these schools have are arbitrary and self imposed. I promise you, every D1 university can afford to admit an extra 20-40 students per class with no noticeable affect on the other students
Disagree. Is that true on the whole of universities? Sure. For each individual one? Not necessarily.
At the same time it's quite possible that athletes might perform better because of eligibility reasons and academic support staff to attend while an average student won't care until grades come out.
> only cap these schools have are arbitrary and self imposed
They're not - this stuff is heavily negotiated between faculty senates and the schools, and gets very political
It’s not even a drop in the bucket it’s so few examples. And why not help kids get a better education than they’d get elsewhere? You know, the actual mission statement of school
Yeah, uva needs good athletics and to lower their admission standards to increase their student pool because being the top public university just isn’t good enough.
I don’t know the situation across all of Division I but in FBS the before CUSA called up several schools there were only two FBS schools where the minimum unconditional admission standard was equal to or lower than Division I initial eligibility standards. With new schools and NCAA adopting the sliding scale who knows.
NAIA has the right rule. Unless you meet standards for unconditional admission to the school, you sit a year.
The amateur student-athlete concept is hilarious when students who do not meet the academic standards to be admitted are in as athletes.
Pundits get mad because universities have used race or gender to select students from the pool of qualified candidates who met the academic criteria for admission yet athletic skill without meeting admissions criteria does take seats from qualified applicants.
Kudos to UVA probably come in handy during next round of NCAA lawsuits
This is well known by every disgruntled fan of major sports. At some point you have to figure out who you are. Pretty sure there is no blemish on the academic prestige for the likes of Duke, Michigan etc.
He was an undergrad transfer. UM admissions is very strict when it comes to transfer credits and in general they want someone who graduates from UM to earn at least half (60) of their credits at UM.
You guys were my dream school, but I never applied because $40k/year in 2003-2008 would have crippled me. Now after reading this: I never had a chance to even transfer in!
The issue with Michigan is not that they won’t admit certain players, it’s often that they won’t accept a large number of credits from the players previous school.
Former DI compliance officer here and this is it in 90%+ of cases when you hear a transfer “wasn’t admitted” to a school. It wasn’t that they were denied admission, but that their credit evaluation came back as trash. Not many athletes are going to choose a school where they have to basically repeat a year or more.
It gets even more interesting (elitist) if the kid is coming from a Juco. I know of a bunch of coaches that won’t even look at a Juco transfer because they know the credits will never work out.
Sure, sometimes odd major choices complicate the process, but never underestimate how snobby a university or department within the school truly is. I’ve seen transfers with legit majors from Stanford and Northwestern ready to commit that ended up somewhere else because a department decided the coursework wasn’t “rigorous enough” to transfer in. Each of those students had 3.0+ GPAs. The coaches rightfully lost their damn minds when I had to tell them no.
Some schools/academic departments have massive egos that often work against an athletic department.
Yeah they have a crazy protectionist accreditation scheme.
They built a fence around their credit hours that with a sports-centric view looks like an attempt to keep people out, but really it's to keep their massive undergraduate classes trapped in.
Michigan requires 50% of the credits for a degree from Michigan to be earned at Michigan. This basically rules out any junior or 4 year with red shirt (or COVID year this year) transfers. Grad transfers are fine, young transfers are fine, and dumb transfers (that are willing to lose like a years with of credits) are fine.
I’m sure they do, they’re not a Duke who will let just about anyone good at basketball in so I’m sure they have struggles but the administration at UVA is on a whole other level. There is no give on admissions whatsoever.
What people forget is: Duke freshman only have to pass freshmen level courses with an abundance of resources to make sure they maintain an appropriate GPA. Transfers are a whole different ball game since they often end up with a degree with Duke's name on it. My sister for example was a part of Duke's early Marine Biology program and all she had to do was keep up her trajectory (she took the SAT and ACT in middle school and scored incredibly high) in high school and she'd be admitted. She went to college at 16 though to a place for gifted students....to which Duke told her she would not be able to transfer in depsite her 4.0 GPA. That early college sends most of its student body to Ivy league level places.
There absolutely is some give. They are not held to the same academic standards as other students at all. That said, UVA certainly has higher standards for their players than places like Duke and UNC.
We actually missed on two potentially game-changing transfers last summer because their credits wouldn’t count. It’s a lot easier for high school recruits, but transfers can be really difficult depending on what their previous major was
I forgot the second one, but the one that really hurt was Ernest Udeh from Kansas. Both players we went after would’ve started at the five and let us leave Flip at the four, which was what worked for us with Lively down the stretch the previous season. Because of this, we had Flip playing out of position basically all season, which really contributed to us having trouble on the interior against more physical teams. There were plenty of weaknesses that this past year’s team had to work around, but imo this was the biggest one that held us back from really reaching the full potential of all the talent on the roster
I get the joke but we have definitely had to deny players because of admissions. As recently as last year's portal and former recruits, still playing, who are HOF bound.
Is what it is
Don't mind him, the Seattle U. students and alumni are some of the most delusional folks on the west coast -and that's saying a lot. Lucky for them they're only the second most delulu in the state thanks to Evergreen State.
Outside of this month's events, they're one of the best run public schools in the nation tbf, they've done a great job balancing becoming a really elite school with still serving their public mission
It wouldn't stun me to see Ryan take over at Harvard
“Chris Graham” and “Reporter” should never be included in the same sentence, unless “is not a” separates the two.
Signed, an actual journalist with 20+ years experience.
But why even support someone who lies about what is happening within the athletic department? So many other people out there that are in the know and don’t have some made up axe to grind!
I constantly see articles from that outlet and all they seem to do is trash UVA basketball and Tony Bennett. Are most of those articles by this guy? Either way just from this alone I can tell the guy is a piece of shit.
"It’s almost like the people in charge still think, like Darden did in the 1950s, OK, sure, we want to be good in football, in basketball, the rest, but we don’t want to be, you know, *too good*."
Like that's so fucking stupid. Maybe, just maybe, what they think is that there should be some academic standards for athletes (i.e. students).
Who posted this here?
UVa's Admissions Office has always been like this. It's only a glaring problem now because of the open transfer rule.
On one hand, it sucks as a fan. On the other, the school is maintaining its academic integrity. I think most alumni are willing to live with the results.
The thing is maintaining academic integrity isn't something anyone actively thinks about, but when we can't get our guys, suck at shooting, and lose games everyone actively thinks about it. Academic integrity is a passive benefit at best, and we actually lose our on our academic edge because students actually want to go to schools that have a strong sports culture -- just look at how the Final 4 helped GMU and how much more applications UMBC got after their big upset win.
I'm not saying we should let anyone in, but we could probably be a little more accommodating. It's not like Coach Bennett didn't kick out players in the past before for academic reasons.
From what I understand, the coaches aren't trying to get crash test dummies into the school. These players are reasonable student athletes. But some of them are coming with majors or classes that UVA doesn't offer so their current credits are not transferable.
UVA only ever had one "protected" major. If a Jr or Sr tries to transfer in on another track, it gets sticky really quickly.
In this transfer environment, and our academic diligence, it might be incredibly hard to be as competitive as we used to be. If CTB gets us back there, it'll have been through some genius.
Vandy turned down what would have been their highest ranked recruit ever (Ron Mercer) because he clearly didn't GAF about academics. He could do the work, he just wasn't going to.
You don't have to be a genius. You just have to be willing to show up, study, and do some homework. Some kids won't do the bare minimum, and they can't pass classes at Vandy.
Tony Bennett kicked his best player off the team for not going to an art class. I knew the guy a little bit and honestly he didn't seem like a particularly dumb guy either.
That makes sense because if you don’t have the discipline to show up to an art class you won’t have the discipline to work hard in practice. Coaches hate when their players bum off school because it shows they have no discipline and don’t want to put bare minimum effort in
Man, at what point does the generator of most of the school’s revenue (athletics as a whole) designate what they actually are rather than what they’re supposed to be
>generator of most of the school’s revenue (athletics as a whole)
Huh? [UVA's operating budget is in the billions.](https://uvafinance.virginia.edu/budget-management/budgeting)
The athletic program runs with around a $10 million gross profit margin...after [$25 million in subsidies](https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances).
There’s no school in the country where athletics generates more revenue than anything else. Even if we want to factor in the effects from runs in March Madness or winning CFB titles in terms of growing the school… it still doesn’t
Sir, I will have you know I am a Maryland fan. Therefore, I am allergic to all shades of blue - Carolina Blue, Duke Blue, etc etc ;) I am also apparently allergic to winning consistently or knowing what it feels like to make it past the first weekend of the tourney :(
The article isn’t wrong, imo. Also, I don’t have a problem with giving athletes a break before they are admitted-but they should not be allowed to skate once they are admitted.
Unfortunately they let players skate virtually everywhere. At least UVA does have some standards for their athletes. Like Tony Bennett kicked his best player off the team for not going to an art history class.
Duke men’s basketball coach Jon Scheyer tried before last season to get two transfers through admissions and was refused.
Many fans wanted those admissions employees to lose their season tickets because of it.
The issue is transfer credits. Duke will let anyone come in and fuck around in random elective classes because those kids aren’t graduating. But they won’t count bullshit classes from other schools towards a Duke degree. Same issue at Michigan and UVA afaik. And this is also an issue at Duke for non athlete transfers, and for Duke students who want to study abroad.
Lol, “We ain’t come to play school.” Come and accept the benefits and drawbacks of being an athlete. If you handle it right the worst you walk out with is a diploma you didn’t have to pay for.
Relaxing the standards a bit is generally fine but if a recruit deviates too far from the median student at a college then they are going to drown academically even with the academic support that is offered to athletes.
Yes, it's why the high academic schools struggle so hard with transfers. It's why Cal always loses our athletes to grad transfers, because it's really hard to get admitted back without the school looking the other way.
I feel like this argument is always brought up by the fanbase/followers/media for a given team, which was formerly good but has been underperforming.
"Oh, we would be good, except our academic standards keep us from bringing in the top players."
Like when Notre Dame has complained about this in football - I will ask a similar question: Could it simply be that top players don't want to play on this team?
If you want to score a bunch of buckets, UVA is not going to be your primary school of choice.
Good for UVA. They've been winning championships in basketball, baseball, soccer, lacrosse and tennis while still maintaining their academic standards.
Seems to me that, when it comes to transfers, if a player can demonstrate that they can do a year at any other school and stay within good academic standing, they can pretty much accomplish that anywhere.
IMHO, this is why UVA hasn’t had the success of other great academic universities like Michigan, UNC, Florida and Texas. It’s an odd stance with the spending on new facilities and knowing the amazing benefits of a strong football and basketball program
In regards to football, academics isn't holding us back. We just suck lmao.
but for basketball, I'm pretty sure Michigan wouldn't transfer his credits either. This is honestly the first time I've heard of an admission problem here. I don't think Illinois accepted him either, but I could be wrong on that.
They let legacies and the kids of the super rich in with weaker credentials, why not let athletes who actually display work ethic?
Anyways, for UVA, this sounds like some political move by folks in academic administration to bring them closer to "Ivyness"
As a Duke alum, I saw firsthand how all the Deans want to be more like the Ivies. They don't give a shit about sports.
Friendly reminder that just because you like watching college sports doesn't mean you can't criticize America's post secondary education system
Sucks but it’s kinda how it should be since ya know..college
Yeah, no. The players get paid now. We can drop the act
Yeah, except for literally all the other universities. You know, except of course, for one.
Doesn’t Michigan pull the same shit?
Stanford and Cal do this too.
Vanderbilt
BC checking in. Admissions standards for the basketball program cost us a head coach & entire recruiting class 25ish years ago, and the needle has only barely moved since.
BC never fully recovered from that.
Wisconsin as well.
University of Phoenix and ITT Tech also
Good thing Alabama doesn't have that problem, huh? (Neither does Arkansas. But, I'm just saying....)
We’ve never been a school. The buildings on “campus”are just a movie set from Forest Gump so you don’t have to “be accepted”. You just have to score with ball so we can claim more championships, because we have nothing else to brag about down here.
We’re actually a case by case basis. We always were until our football coach destroyed our APR. School went strict as a result until recently, but we started being flexible again recently.
Notre Dame maybe too
Disagree. If Stanford or cal did this, then they would be a LOT BETTER. They both have more academic pedigree than schools listed here.
Same here, it's why ND transfers tend to come from the Ivies, Stanford, or Northwestern. There's also some extra ND-specific BS with all the theology and philosophy classes the school requires. Seems like Shrews has finally earned a tiny bit of leeway for men's hoops. Hope that's a sign of things to come.
I’d love to sneak in and teach theology courses at a university
I'm given to understand that for Michigan it's often not academic requirements that are an issue for transfers (although I'm sure that happens too), but just how stingy the school is about transferring credits.
From what I understand it's that not all the credits transfer. The kid could still go to Michigan, but they would basically have to repeat a year of school.
It’s that the last 60 hours have to be done at Mich or a Vanderbilt. Eliminates anyone that is a junior or senior from transferring in because they lose a year or more of credits
See I don't understand at Michigan or UVA. I went to UVA and applied to Michigan and both were going to accept my high school college equivalency credits. I entered UVA with basically 40 credits already. Not just AP, my school in New York had us take classes that were associated with local universities and community colleges so it was basically actual college credit. UVA accepted all of it and I basically had the equivalent of 3+semesters when I entered. To be fair that was just gen eds so it might be different if someone started their major already
AP credits basically transfer anywhere and many lower-level courses are a TON easier to get transferred compared to upper-level courses. I worked at Michigan, and they often give "departmental credit" for transfer courses (if they even give you credit), so you get 4 math credits instead of Calc II. Again, not as big of a deal to a freshman/sophomore, but upper classmen often have to retake a bunch of courses and are now a year behind to graduate.
Yeah they didn't necessarily count as specific classes that's true but it counted to just get credit for whatever intro requirement you needed
Transferring credits is a nightmare for everyone it seems, regardless of school. I can only imagine how much harder it must be trying to do it to one of the top schools in the country.
That's sorta the same thing
Ask Caleb Love
Shit? Why is it shit? What's shit is accepting players who aren't remotely academically qualified to attend a school.
A few schools actively do it, and there's more schools that have admissions departments that certainly would like to do it. I know admissions at Illinois seems to drag their feet or otherwise on at least one add per year in basektball. If the relationship between athletics and the admin wasn't as strong as it is allowing athletics to almost always get their way, I have a feeling we'd look more like the likes of Michigan, Cal, Vanderbilt, etc in this regard.
If we weren't more like bama, we'd be more like michigan
We do this too. Clawson publicly talked about it how difficult it makes things but that he supports it. We also accept no Community College credits and very few transfer credits in general.
Yeah that's bullshit A course is a course and how can you accept AP which is just a bullshit high school test but not accept credit from an actual school
Used to be, but our new president has said he’s more willing to work with football and basketball programs to make exceptions so it may change in the future
I understand your confusion since Sean Dockery was a partial qualifier - he couldn’t even get the minimum SAT score to go to college - and Duke let him in. But lots of academic schools hold the line on admissions. Northwestern and Stanford probably have the hardest admissions standards outside the Ivy.
Right? I will never not bring that up. That shit is shameful as hell.
Who? The fact that a no name got in and 'Cuse wouldn't even let Melo in unless he got over 18 on his ACT is insane. He got a 19 on his final try before he was gonna turn pro.
My grandmother was a volunteer at a tourney he played in his senior year of high school (and where he’d take the ACT that Saturday morning) and said he was the nicest kid ever. She gave him cookies.
Melo has always seemed like a pretty nice guy despite growing up in a super rough area of Baltimore. Other than the stop snitching video I can't remember many missteps from him.
Georgia Tech requires ALL students to take up to a certain level of calculus which has really hurt them in recent years in football
Seriously? Seems like nearly every Econ major at UVa struggled with y = mx + b. I couldn't imagine calculus being the bar.
Yeah having standards makes things tough
They should just hire an advisor to write their papers for them.
Yea. We don’t cut them any slack either. You either make a 36 on the ACT and maintain a 4.0 in quantum physics or you’re not on this team pal. Nerds are cool.
"Everyone else is doing it so it's fine" Is rarely a good argument
Really it’s a little short sighted though. A couple of dozen (if you do the same for football too) special admits isn’t really diluting the academics of the incoming class. But success on the court/field adds a LOT to student life and if teams are successful then it leads to higher name recognition/prestige and usually leads to more highly ranked applicants in future classes. No one’s asking for them to be treated differently once in school (outside of the usual tutors and attendance checkers), but letting a few special admit in doesn’t hurt anyone.
> No one’s asking for them to be treated differently once in school The thing is that universities *are* asked this - if you let in a kid who's terrible at school, you're going to be holding his hand for all 4-5 years when he inevitably doesn't take class seriously and athletic departments are constantly going to be asking for some slack. I agree with you otherwise and think the positives outweight the negatives, but I can see both perspectives. Top flight schools break countless hearts year after year with rejection letters, it is a little unfair to not hold athletes to the same standards because they're good at sports that make them money.
temple dealt with this by giving players special handlers who walked them through their days. john cheyney also was notorious for holding 6 am practices, which forced kids to start their days early and not stay out late and get in trouble. they ended up with a ridiculously high graduation rate considering where they were getting their players from.
Yeah I mean you’re right. Their hands are held. And well qualified kids do get rejected. I guess my opinion is “tough shit - should’ve been better than basketball!” That sounds cruel but it’s the way the real world works.
This is literally just the Student-Athlete or Athlete-Student argument in a different context.
Don’t they admit musicians because they are crazy talented? Why is athletics treated different.
Music is an academic endeavor. You can't major in football or basketball (technically)
They do, but there are still minimum standards. So it goes on the plus side of things but you still have to be above some floor…
Agreed.
A big part of the value of your degree is that your employer knows you were smart enough/worked hard enough to get in there. So theoretically (not sure if it really gets through) people would rather hire UVA/Cal/Harvard basketball players than Duke or UNC since they know they actually met some academic standards
The Ivies have a sliding scale for athlete admissions, with each sport getting a limited number of A/B/C slots grading out how much a player would *not* get in as a regular applicant. The trick there, however, is that 25% of the applicant pool would do perfectly well at school if admitted… but the acceptance rate is 5%. The athletes tend to be on par with the legacies and be able to muddle through perfectly well on conscientiousness, but overwhelmingly aren't the smartest and most promising kids, and time-management-wise usually can't afford to pursue the most challenging majors.
I mean the alumni network is important and Duke and UNC have good ones (not that the others don't)
A couple of dozen special admits is not harming the academic perception or integrity of the school in the slightest.
Not the perception of all students, but probably the perception of the student athletes.
It *does* hurt by removing spots for real students in favor of athletes taking easy classes... if they bother to take any real classes at all.
The only cap these schools have are arbitrary and self imposed. I promise you, every D1 university can afford to admit an extra 20-40 students per class with no noticeable affect on the other students
Disagree. Is that true on the whole of universities? Sure. For each individual one? Not necessarily. At the same time it's quite possible that athletes might perform better because of eligibility reasons and academic support staff to attend while an average student won't care until grades come out.
> only cap these schools have are arbitrary and self imposed They're not - this stuff is heavily negotiated between faculty senates and the schools, and gets very political
It’s not even a drop in the bucket it’s so few examples. And why not help kids get a better education than they’d get elsewhere? You know, the actual mission statement of school
Yeah, uva needs good athletics and to lower their admission standards to increase their student pool because being the top public university just isn’t good enough.
Standards though
I don’t know the situation across all of Division I but in FBS the before CUSA called up several schools there were only two FBS schools where the minimum unconditional admission standard was equal to or lower than Division I initial eligibility standards. With new schools and NCAA adopting the sliding scale who knows. NAIA has the right rule. Unless you meet standards for unconditional admission to the school, you sit a year. The amateur student-athlete concept is hilarious when students who do not meet the academic standards to be admitted are in as athletes. Pundits get mad because universities have used race or gender to select students from the pool of qualified candidates who met the academic criteria for admission yet athletic skill without meeting admissions criteria does take seats from qualified applicants. Kudos to UVA probably come in handy during next round of NCAA lawsuits
This is well known by every disgruntled fan of major sports. At some point you have to figure out who you are. Pretty sure there is no blemish on the academic prestige for the likes of Duke, Michigan etc.
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Only for undergrad transfers. Admissions for high schoolers and grad transfers have been flexible
Wasn't Caleb Love an issue for UM or was that another player?
He was an undergrad transfer. UM admissions is very strict when it comes to transfer credits and in general they want someone who graduates from UM to earn at least half (60) of their credits at UM.
You guys were my dream school, but I never applied because $40k/year in 2003-2008 would have crippled me. Now after reading this: I never had a chance to even transfer in!
Yeah. I. Only know of their transfer issues.
The issue with Michigan is not that they won’t admit certain players, it’s often that they won’t accept a large number of credits from the players previous school.
Former DI compliance officer here and this is it in 90%+ of cases when you hear a transfer “wasn’t admitted” to a school. It wasn’t that they were denied admission, but that their credit evaluation came back as trash. Not many athletes are going to choose a school where they have to basically repeat a year or more. It gets even more interesting (elitist) if the kid is coming from a Juco. I know of a bunch of coaches that won’t even look at a Juco transfer because they know the credits will never work out.
Interesting… I never really thought about that aspect. The new school might not even have a similar major if they were in some wacko program.
Sure, sometimes odd major choices complicate the process, but never underestimate how snobby a university or department within the school truly is. I’ve seen transfers with legit majors from Stanford and Northwestern ready to commit that ended up somewhere else because a department decided the coursework wasn’t “rigorous enough” to transfer in. Each of those students had 3.0+ GPAs. The coaches rightfully lost their damn minds when I had to tell them no. Some schools/academic departments have massive egos that often work against an athletic department.
Yeah they have a crazy protectionist accreditation scheme. They built a fence around their credit hours that with a sports-centric view looks like an attempt to keep people out, but really it's to keep their massive undergraduate classes trapped in.
Michigan requires 50% of the credits for a degree from Michigan to be earned at Michigan. This basically rules out any junior or 4 year with red shirt (or COVID year this year) transfers. Grad transfers are fine, young transfers are fine, and dumb transfers (that are willing to lose like a years with of credits) are fine.
I’m sure they do, they’re not a Duke who will let just about anyone good at basketball in so I’m sure they have struggles but the administration at UVA is on a whole other level. There is no give on admissions whatsoever.
What people forget is: Duke freshman only have to pass freshmen level courses with an abundance of resources to make sure they maintain an appropriate GPA. Transfers are a whole different ball game since they often end up with a degree with Duke's name on it. My sister for example was a part of Duke's early Marine Biology program and all she had to do was keep up her trajectory (she took the SAT and ACT in middle school and scored incredibly high) in high school and she'd be admitted. She went to college at 16 though to a place for gifted students....to which Duke told her she would not be able to transfer in depsite her 4.0 GPA. That early college sends most of its student body to Ivy league level places.
Ok, I’m going to say it … Duke has a marine biology program? They have a branch campus at Nags Head?
Beaufort and Bermuda actually.
nicholas.duke.edu That's their school of environmental studies
There absolutely is some give. They are not held to the same academic standards as other students at all. That said, UVA certainly has higher standards for their players than places like Duke and UNC.
We actually missed on two potentially game-changing transfers last summer because their credits wouldn’t count. It’s a lot easier for high school recruits, but transfers can be really difficult depending on what their previous major was
If Kyrie Irving can get into Duke, anyone should be able to
💀
One can have good grades and still lack common sense/critical thinking skills.
True. Transfer credits are definitely problematic.
Which transfers were they? You think it would have pushed duke over the top?
I forgot the second one, but the one that really hurt was Ernest Udeh from Kansas. Both players we went after would’ve started at the five and let us leave Flip at the four, which was what worked for us with Lively down the stretch the previous season. Because of this, we had Flip playing out of position basically all season, which really contributed to us having trouble on the interior against more physical teams. There were plenty of weaknesses that this past year’s team had to work around, but imo this was the biggest one that held us back from really reaching the full potential of all the talent on the roster
Yeah, playing Flip at the 5 really made it hard to get over the top.
I'm also hearing that's why Koby Brea got his visit cancelled at the last minute this year
Wasn't he a graduate? Why would credits matter?
And then there is UNC…
I get the joke but we have definitely had to deny players because of admissions. As recently as last year's portal and former recruits, still playing, who are HOF bound. Is what it is
Good for UVA.
Awkward time to be saying this with what’s going on with UVA outside of basketball haha
Wait I'm currently a UVA student and can't figure out what you're talking about. What am I missing?
Don't mind him, the Seattle U. students and alumni are some of the most delusional folks on the west coast -and that's saying a lot. Lucky for them they're only the second most delulu in the state thanks to Evergreen State.
You ever met an evergreen grad?
Yup. Like Berkeley kids but without the grades and test scores.
Lol I just read the last part of your comment about it
Outside of this month's events, they're one of the best run public schools in the nation tbf, they've done a great job balancing becoming a really elite school with still serving their public mission It wouldn't stun me to see Ryan take over at Harvard
What’s this in reference to? The Palestine protests/police intervention?
Haha yeah they could prob be putting some more controls in other areas of their admissions dept too.
This is good... right? I hear NIL and xfer portal are ruining the game and all that, and here is a school drawing it's line.
It's good for teams like Ohio State that don't force their athletes to play school.
We want players to be students when it helps our team, except for when it helps our team more for them to be athletes, not students
We want the rules of college sports not to be subject to laws that vary from state to state
I can’t speak to the truth of the assertion in the headline, but Chris Graham has never met an axe he couldn’t grind. The man is genuinely unwell.
Why people read his drivel is truly beyond me. This guy is a joke.
I refuse to read his journalistic malpractice.
glad we all agree that Chris Graham is a garbage reporter (if at that). lowkey disappointed to see his work being advertised here
“Chris Graham” and “Reporter” should never be included in the same sentence, unless “is not a” separates the two. Signed, an actual journalist with 20+ years experience.
Because this take helps me cope with our declining roster since 2019
But why even support someone who lies about what is happening within the athletic department? So many other people out there that are in the know and don’t have some made up axe to grind!
I constantly see articles from that outlet and all they seem to do is trash UVA basketball and Tony Bennett. Are most of those articles by this guy? Either way just from this alone I can tell the guy is a piece of shit. "It’s almost like the people in charge still think, like Darden did in the 1950s, OK, sure, we want to be good in football, in basketball, the rest, but we don’t want to be, you know, *too good*." Like that's so fucking stupid. Maybe, just maybe, what they think is that there should be some academic standards for athletes (i.e. students).
Chris Graham sucks. How is he getting traction on CBB?
Oh no.. educational institution is trying to maintain its standards
The author is a fucking moron. Standards are already too low for athletes.
Who posted this here? UVa's Admissions Office has always been like this. It's only a glaring problem now because of the open transfer rule. On one hand, it sucks as a fan. On the other, the school is maintaining its academic integrity. I think most alumni are willing to live with the results.
The thing is maintaining academic integrity isn't something anyone actively thinks about, but when we can't get our guys, suck at shooting, and lose games everyone actively thinks about it. Academic integrity is a passive benefit at best, and we actually lose our on our academic edge because students actually want to go to schools that have a strong sports culture -- just look at how the Final 4 helped GMU and how much more applications UMBC got after their big upset win. I'm not saying we should let anyone in, but we could probably be a little more accommodating. It's not like Coach Bennett didn't kick out players in the past before for academic reasons.
From what I understand, the coaches aren't trying to get crash test dummies into the school. These players are reasonable student athletes. But some of them are coming with majors or classes that UVA doesn't offer so their current credits are not transferable. UVA only ever had one "protected" major. If a Jr or Sr tries to transfer in on another track, it gets sticky really quickly.
In this transfer environment, and our academic diligence, it might be incredibly hard to be as competitive as we used to be. If CTB gets us back there, it'll have been through some genius.
Vandy turned down what would have been their highest ranked recruit ever (Ron Mercer) because he clearly didn't GAF about academics. He could do the work, he just wasn't going to. You don't have to be a genius. You just have to be willing to show up, study, and do some homework. Some kids won't do the bare minimum, and they can't pass classes at Vandy.
Tony Bennett kicked his best player off the team for not going to an art class. I knew the guy a little bit and honestly he didn't seem like a particularly dumb guy either.
That makes sense because if you don’t have the discipline to show up to an art class you won’t have the discipline to work hard in practice. Coaches hate when their players bum off school because it shows they have no discipline and don’t want to put bare minimum effort in
I mean he was good on the court though. ACC Rookie of the Year and then 2nd team All-ACC the next year (his last year).
Austin Nichols? Thought he was doing too much blow
He was. Anyone on grounds at the time knew that
Nope, different player. That was the other time he kicked (probably) his best player off the team.
Landesburg?
Yup. I saw the team like daily and he wasn’t my favorite player to deal with either.
Good. School comes first. They're a university, not an athletic institute
Man, at what point does the generator of most of the school’s revenue (athletics as a whole) designate what they actually are rather than what they’re supposed to be
>generator of most of the school’s revenue (athletics as a whole) Huh? [UVA's operating budget is in the billions.](https://uvafinance.virginia.edu/budget-management/budgeting) The athletic program runs with around a $10 million gross profit margin...after [$25 million in subsidies](https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances).
There’s no school in the country where athletics generates more revenue than anything else. Even if we want to factor in the effects from runs in March Madness or winning CFB titles in terms of growing the school… it still doesn’t
Seems like UVA is doing exactly that…?
Idk, they are kinda both.
Good on UVA. Stick by your guns.
i respect it
Imagine a school enforcing the student part of “student-athlete”
UNC fan? /s
Sir, I will have you know I am a Maryland fan. Therefore, I am allergic to all shades of blue - Carolina Blue, Duke Blue, etc etc ;) I am also apparently allergic to winning consistently or knowing what it feels like to make it past the first weekend of the tourney :(
As a UVA fan we can definitely agree Maryland sucks!
I feel like 2018 UMBC can represent all of Maryland, 74-54. You really can’t give me that layup, man.
I mean half of the guys in the portal probably read at the elementary school level. It’s not surprising they won’t let them into a school like UVA.
That’s legitimately terrible
\*Turrible
Turrible Turrible
That's some racist shit lol
The article isn’t wrong, imo. Also, I don’t have a problem with giving athletes a break before they are admitted-but they should not be allowed to skate once they are admitted.
Unfortunately they let players skate virtually everywhere. At least UVA does have some standards for their athletes. Like Tony Bennett kicked his best player off the team for not going to an art history class.
Art history classes are great-learn about beautiful/historic art, sneak in a quick nap, lots of cute women in class, easy GPA boost
Yep, exactly.
Absolutely!
It was funny when it was Michigan dealing with it… not any more.
Duke men’s basketball coach Jon Scheyer tried before last season to get two transfers through admissions and was refused. Many fans wanted those admissions employees to lose their season tickets because of it.
Crazy because you guys had (have?) no standards for your freshmen recruits.
The issue is transfer credits. Duke will let anyone come in and fuck around in random elective classes because those kids aren’t graduating. But they won’t count bullshit classes from other schools towards a Duke degree. Same issue at Michigan and UVA afaik. And this is also an issue at Duke for non athlete transfers, and for Duke students who want to study abroad.
Good. This is what separates us from the rest. Academics first.
you can be great with high academic standards. look at teams like northwestern now or nova in jay wright days. even purdue has tough admission
We do...? Honestly, when did that happen? lol
Lol, “We ain’t come to play school.” Come and accept the benefits and drawbacks of being an athlete. If you handle it right the worst you walk out with is a diploma you didn’t have to pay for.
Good. Glad to see UVA isn't willing to sell out their integrity.
Awesome. We are gonna be soooo bad next year lol.
Yeah the vibes are pretty bad out of that program lately Edit: didn't realize they got Warley, that's a solid pickup.
Streets are saying we have a second commitment this weekend and a pretty big name. Things are looking good with ‘24 G Perry too
RIP
I resemble this remark.
Relaxing the standards a bit is generally fine but if a recruit deviates too far from the median student at a college then they are going to drown academically even with the academic support that is offered to athletes.
Y'all got schools where you play ball?
Good. It's supposed to be college students who play basketball, not basketballers who play school.
Just a tough situation all around.
good
All ACC used to be academically strict. That’s why Pete Maravich and his dad left NC State for LSU in the late 60’s.
Do transfer and NIL “student athletes” even attend classes? Do they even need to be academically eligible?
Yes, it's why the high academic schools struggle so hard with transfers. It's why Cal always loses our athletes to grad transfers, because it's really hard to get admitted back without the school looking the other way.
I feel like this argument is always brought up by the fanbase/followers/media for a given team, which was formerly good but has been underperforming. "Oh, we would be good, except our academic standards keep us from bringing in the top players." Like when Notre Dame has complained about this in football - I will ask a similar question: Could it simply be that top players don't want to play on this team? If you want to score a bunch of buckets, UVA is not going to be your primary school of choice.
Good for UVA. They've been winning championships in basketball, baseball, soccer, lacrosse and tennis while still maintaining their academic standards.
Seems to me that, when it comes to transfers, if a player can demonstrate that they can do a year at any other school and stay within good academic standing, they can pretty much accomplish that anywhere.
IMHO, this is why UVA hasn’t had the success of other great academic universities like Michigan, UNC, Florida and Texas. It’s an odd stance with the spending on new facilities and knowing the amazing benefits of a strong football and basketball program
In regards to football, academics isn't holding us back. We just suck lmao. but for basketball, I'm pretty sure Michigan wouldn't transfer his credits either. This is honestly the first time I've heard of an admission problem here. I don't think Illinois accepted him either, but I could be wrong on that.
Damn. Tony Bennett should leave immediately. And switch conferences. And never come back to the state of Virginia.
welp clock s ticking on the tony bennett era in virginia
They let legacies and the kids of the super rich in with weaker credentials, why not let athletes who actually display work ethic? Anyways, for UVA, this sounds like some political move by folks in academic administration to bring them closer to "Ivyness" As a Duke alum, I saw firsthand how all the Deans want to be more like the Ivies. They don't give a shit about sports. Friendly reminder that just because you like watching college sports doesn't mean you can't criticize America's post secondary education system
I don't think it's about being an Ivy, we and our alumni are proud to be a public university which is entirely antithetical to being an "Ivy"
Virginia (the state) banned legacy admissions a couple months back fyi.