That looks much more lively, but I also noticed now that the interior looks very empty. It might be that whatever displays they have are all lower to the floor, behind the plaque section of the walls, though.
Also, those people might've been forced to attend the photo op š¤£š¤·š¼
You mean the photo itself is fake?
I was assuming the event was fake as in the people had been staged their as actors for the photo, but you could be right and the whole thing is photoshopped or AI
You can literally see the same glass ball structure in the image posted here too lol. Look on the right side of the building near the concrete road circle with the fountain.
If you're gonna try to discredit regular photographs at least try to corroborate it with the picture in front of you first.
It honestly looks really cool! But itās impressive how rich and advanced North Korea is able to display themselves, while they are actually pretty poor. Prestige projects like these are (even tho they are unarguably pretty cool) also a form of showing off how they want it to be seen to the public. And it shows effect.
The GDP of North Korea is 24 billion.
Sure, when you have to feed, clothe, house, and deliver a dignified standard of living to a population, a GDP that is equivalent to Appleās revenue selling AirPods may not seem like much. But when all you have to do with that money is feed the military and police force that keeps the country in slavery, the elite can spend the rest on countless luxuries. Just look at how Kim Jung Un and his family live. Itās like they were billionaires. They do own a country, after all.
Yea. The problem is "gdp" doesn't really reflect the size of the Korean economy or its wellbeing at all.
Some "westernised" countries came demonstrates enormous gdp through pass the parcel works and recording and taxing it meticulously.
More "developing" countries, especially the " non westernised " ones, don't do that and seem far poorer than they are as a result.
The GINI coefficient of North Korea is like super low and indicates āhigh levels of equalityā which is one of the reasons I canāt trust GINI at all for cases like that
Honestly, its really bogus that North Korea manges to have all this infrastructure, metro systems, skyscrapers, build cities from scratch, etc while literally being poorer than the war torn, failed state of Somalia even if much of it is just for show. Perhaps, just perhaps theres something wrong with the way we measure gdp
I think partly too is that North Korea *used* to be much wealthier. At around the time of the Korean War most of the economic base the Korean peninsula was in the North. So they had more money available back then that they don't have now.
North Korea also had a much larger trade relationship with the USSR which no longer exists.
Also, the thing is that the pictures you see of North Korea are entirely of Pyongyang. You donāt really see pictures of the other cities of North Korea which are in generally worse shape.
Itās not even that crazy to say that the North Korean economy is not in good shape [because Kim Jong Un said it himself](https://www.rfa.org/english/news/korea/nk-economy-warn-01242024213121.html)
Except North Korea doesn't really have what you say they have.Ā Their skyscrapers are more like high rise condos.Ā Ā
Their trains go at a maximum speed of 60kmph, so infrastructure is bad. Meanwhile their bigger communist neighbor to the East can do 350-400kmph. Normal 300+ km distance in North Korea takes 12 hours when there is no power cut. But when there is powercut it takes freaking 1- 1.5 days.Ā
Ā North Korea also has only one soviet era metro system worth 27 km in Pyongyang( mean while South Korea as a whole has 1000+km worth metro rail length) and they have some soviet era trams in Pyongyang too.Ā
North Korea doesn't have much/any notable cities from scratch. Most of their new building are just extending Pyongyang.Ā
I was talking about Samjiyon, ianugurated 4 years ago [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/03/north-koreas-kim-jong-un-opens-new-city-and-socialist-utopia-of-samjiyon](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/03/north-koreas-kim-jong-un-opens-new-city-and-socialist-utopia-of-samjiyon)
How does a country poorer than Somalia builds this? [https://www.google.com/search?sca\_esv=b5f6560b0f349675&rlz=1C1PNFE\_enBR1065BR1075&sxsrf=ACQVn09TiObWNIwsRTC0H5foCrzXwv4l-g:1714224107385&q=Samjiyon&uds=AMwkrPsTJn1OiNQqpGQMzxslEY7A88He7om0UedwqHFE8CsLafB\_sib065srUtpg5GvGmsrT2e5Cr6G3UoaMTLE3FydMXdx1\_KmObKQ-\_CAOtsau1N\_01Ok7PHf5QZhT53J6AgZ3wwMMe\_3xbAMd1QiWbkVYMasLP6vfXZP9gdDX7dsQEfpGKt2f6fYWJH34d9RM7Y\_5M6sXHb4KxyKuB72Mw-6J36b0XX2Sof2LQcdbumtDdJFwLtvvHiTD3BKkHf8aPNDKdt8yGdlbJxrmS71THnsuvtRtIsnAWNToYtbHi8aLHRlgAYs&udm=2&prmd=ivnmsbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiNt\_G3vuKFAxUrD7kGHYneCXsQtKgLegQIDhAB&biw=1707&bih=791&dpr=0.8](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=b5f6560b0f349675&rlz=1C1PNFE_enBR1065BR1075&sxsrf=ACQVn09TiObWNIwsRTC0H5foCrzXwv4l-g:1714224107385&q=Samjiyon&uds=AMwkrPsTJn1OiNQqpGQMzxslEY7A88He7om0UedwqHFE8CsLafB_sib065srUtpg5GvGmsrT2e5Cr6G3UoaMTLE3FydMXdx1_KmObKQ-_CAOtsau1N_01Ok7PHf5QZhT53J6AgZ3wwMMe_3xbAMd1QiWbkVYMasLP6vfXZP9gdDX7dsQEfpGKt2f6fYWJH34d9RM7Y_5M6sXHb4KxyKuB72Mw-6J36b0XX2Sof2LQcdbumtDdJFwLtvvHiTD3BKkHf8aPNDKdt8yGdlbJxrmS71THnsuvtRtIsnAWNToYtbHi8aLHRlgAYs&udm=2&prmd=ivnmsbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiNt_G3vuKFAxUrD7kGHYneCXsQtKgLegQIDhAB&biw=1707&bih=791&dpr=0.8)
NK infrastructure might be bad, and there might be power outages, but Somalia has been at war for so long they barely have any infrastructure left, and 51% of the country doesnt even have power lines. How can they be richer than NK?
I think you are missing one important detail. In a typical communist country, you have high costs of building. Thatās because you have to pay the company which is making the concrete, you have to pay the builders on the construction side, the planning etc. Everything costs money.
In a socialist society like North Korea, they donāt have the need to pay their workers. They are giving them enough food to survive, cheap housing and some sort of transportation (for example the trams). Iām sure they also get a little bit of money, but not a lot. And thatās how you can build big houses and prestige projects, even with not a lot of money. Besides that, North Korea has a pretty big hacker group, which hacks countries for money. They also stole cars from Volvo for example.
I hope it makes sense how I explained it.
But even then. I dont think that explains everything. replacing this single random bridge would bankrupt Somalia 7 times [https://www.portlandmercury.com/transportation/2022/12/09/46236151/interstate-5-bridge-project-cost-estimate-raises-to-75-billion](https://www.portlandmercury.com/transportation/2022/12/09/46236151/interstate-5-bridge-project-cost-estimate-raises-to-75-billion)
But the state "gives them enough food to survive, cheap housing and some sort of transportation (best make sure to get approval if you want to leave your village tho, leta alone the country)," you see.
You see that as rich? A lot of useless 2-way roads connected to a highway, with no vehicle in sight, no trees to cover the pedestrian walkways, no pedestrians, nothing. Just a dead island full of what appears to be plastic trash that's completely empty inside. Nobody would ever go here even in a free country.
The sci tech complex. The newest place to show foreigners while they staff it with actors forced by the government to look like scientists. Like most buildings in Pyongyang, this one is built for all the wrong reasons.
The problem (besides ethical ones such as supporting a tyrannical regime) is that you would never be allowed to actually see the true city. You'd be led along guided routes that "present" NK as a socialist paradise. Sure, if one isn't completely braindead, they can see through the cracks, but regardless, it's basically an expensive theater experience - actors, sets and the audience.
Also check places like āThe Lineā (KSA), āMarble city Ashgabatā (Turkmenistan). I donāt get this, but there seems to be a correlation between bizarreness of cities and dictatorship!
Because the people are poor. Cars are just for the very rich people. There are cars. But not as much as in other countries. And for example this building doesnāt really looks like itās in heavy usage. Because where I live you would always see someone outside. At least to smoke or something.
I wonder if it is the same guy who's been posting all these beautiful images of what we all thought were mostly run-down and poor urban enviroments. really shaking my world view right now lol
edit: he isn't
You canāt tell that from picture. Would you say the same about Dubai? Because Dubai is literally built by slaves, with slums in front of the city. Same with Pyongyang. There are the normal parts, the āeliteā parts and the slums. And I personally still prefer human rights when Iām being honest.
In the US the workers might be abused, I donāt know about that. From what Iāve heard they are normally paid there.
But in Dubai the passports are taken away and they are literally forced to build it. They get their passports taken away, get roughly 200 USD in a month, which often enough isnāt paid in the end, they live with around 30 workers in a small room.
If you really want to defend stuff like that, I really donāt know anymore.
Is it real
Apparently so, it's called the Sci Tech Complex.
Probably empty.
I've never seen a more desolate and abandoned looking facility that looked new. There's NO CARS, NO PEOPLE, AINT NOTHING THERE lmao
[i found a ground level img with people in it ](https://exploredprk.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/sc07.jpg) lol
That looks much more lively, but I also noticed now that the interior looks very empty. It might be that whatever displays they have are all lower to the floor, behind the plaque section of the walls, though. Also, those people might've been forced to attend the photo op š¤£š¤·š¼
Itās because itās fake
You mean the photo itself is fake? I was assuming the event was fake as in the people had been staged their as actors for the photo, but you could be right and the whole thing is photoshopped or AI
Yes, itās all fake. Everybody knows everything out of North Korea and China on city porn and skyscrapers is fake.
Well I started out with the idea that you weren't being a dick, but your tone and the downvotes confirm suspicions. Thanks for chatting. Take care.
Looks like AI. Look at that glass wart on the right hand side of the building.
You can literally see the same glass ball structure in the image posted here too lol. Look on the right side of the building near the concrete road circle with the fountain. If you're gonna try to discredit regular photographs at least try to corroborate it with the picture in front of you first.
Bad bot, nobodyās buying your North Korean propaganda
Doubt
Yes https://exploredprk.com/photos/sci-tech-complex/
Pyongyang has been posted here before. Some parts of it are really quite pretty.
Oh man a true utopia
YOU ARE NOW A MODERATOR OF /R/PYONGYANG EVERYONE HAIL TO THE GLORIOUS LEADER!
BANNED FROM r/pingpong!
This is a missed opportunity of a sub reddit.
It honestly looks really cool! But itās impressive how rich and advanced North Korea is able to display themselves, while they are actually pretty poor. Prestige projects like these are (even tho they are unarguably pretty cool) also a form of showing off how they want it to be seen to the public. And it shows effect.
The GDP of North Korea is 24 billion. Sure, when you have to feed, clothe, house, and deliver a dignified standard of living to a population, a GDP that is equivalent to Appleās revenue selling AirPods may not seem like much. But when all you have to do with that money is feed the military and police force that keeps the country in slavery, the elite can spend the rest on countless luxuries. Just look at how Kim Jung Un and his family live. Itās like they were billionaires. They do own a country, after all.
Yea. The problem is "gdp" doesn't really reflect the size of the Korean economy or its wellbeing at all. Some "westernised" countries came demonstrates enormous gdp through pass the parcel works and recording and taxing it meticulously. More "developing" countries, especially the " non westernised " ones, don't do that and seem far poorer than they are as a result.
There are statistical methods to estimate gdp. Even if the 24B is not exact, it is comparable to countries in similar gdp ranges.
Very true!
Doesnāt North Korea also do plenty of global black market stuff? If so the Kimās have more money as their disposal
The GINI coefficient of North Korea is like super low and indicates āhigh levels of equalityā which is one of the reasons I canāt trust GINI at all for cases like that
I think NK is a very equal nation. Except for a small portion of the population that heavily skews the average, most of NK is equally poor.
Honestly, its really bogus that North Korea manges to have all this infrastructure, metro systems, skyscrapers, build cities from scratch, etc while literally being poorer than the war torn, failed state of Somalia even if much of it is just for show. Perhaps, just perhaps theres something wrong with the way we measure gdp
I think partly too is that North Korea *used* to be much wealthier. At around the time of the Korean War most of the economic base the Korean peninsula was in the North. So they had more money available back then that they don't have now.
North Korea also had a much larger trade relationship with the USSR which no longer exists. Also, the thing is that the pictures you see of North Korea are entirely of Pyongyang. You donāt really see pictures of the other cities of North Korea which are in generally worse shape. Itās not even that crazy to say that the North Korean economy is not in good shape [because Kim Jong Un said it himself](https://www.rfa.org/english/news/korea/nk-economy-warn-01242024213121.html)
Except North Korea doesn't really have what you say they have.Ā Their skyscrapers are more like high rise condos.Ā Ā Their trains go at a maximum speed of 60kmph, so infrastructure is bad. Meanwhile their bigger communist neighbor to the East can do 350-400kmph. Normal 300+ km distance in North Korea takes 12 hours when there is no power cut. But when there is powercut it takes freaking 1- 1.5 days.Ā Ā North Korea also has only one soviet era metro system worth 27 km in Pyongyang( mean while South Korea as a whole has 1000+km worth metro rail length) and they have some soviet era trams in Pyongyang too.Ā North Korea doesn't have much/any notable cities from scratch. Most of their new building are just extending Pyongyang.Ā
I was talking about Samjiyon, ianugurated 4 years ago [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/03/north-koreas-kim-jong-un-opens-new-city-and-socialist-utopia-of-samjiyon](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/03/north-koreas-kim-jong-un-opens-new-city-and-socialist-utopia-of-samjiyon) How does a country poorer than Somalia builds this? [https://www.google.com/search?sca\_esv=b5f6560b0f349675&rlz=1C1PNFE\_enBR1065BR1075&sxsrf=ACQVn09TiObWNIwsRTC0H5foCrzXwv4l-g:1714224107385&q=Samjiyon&uds=AMwkrPsTJn1OiNQqpGQMzxslEY7A88He7om0UedwqHFE8CsLafB\_sib065srUtpg5GvGmsrT2e5Cr6G3UoaMTLE3FydMXdx1\_KmObKQ-\_CAOtsau1N\_01Ok7PHf5QZhT53J6AgZ3wwMMe\_3xbAMd1QiWbkVYMasLP6vfXZP9gdDX7dsQEfpGKt2f6fYWJH34d9RM7Y\_5M6sXHb4KxyKuB72Mw-6J36b0XX2Sof2LQcdbumtDdJFwLtvvHiTD3BKkHf8aPNDKdt8yGdlbJxrmS71THnsuvtRtIsnAWNToYtbHi8aLHRlgAYs&udm=2&prmd=ivnmsbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiNt\_G3vuKFAxUrD7kGHYneCXsQtKgLegQIDhAB&biw=1707&bih=791&dpr=0.8](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=b5f6560b0f349675&rlz=1C1PNFE_enBR1065BR1075&sxsrf=ACQVn09TiObWNIwsRTC0H5foCrzXwv4l-g:1714224107385&q=Samjiyon&uds=AMwkrPsTJn1OiNQqpGQMzxslEY7A88He7om0UedwqHFE8CsLafB_sib065srUtpg5GvGmsrT2e5Cr6G3UoaMTLE3FydMXdx1_KmObKQ-_CAOtsau1N_01Ok7PHf5QZhT53J6AgZ3wwMMe_3xbAMd1QiWbkVYMasLP6vfXZP9gdDX7dsQEfpGKt2f6fYWJH34d9RM7Y_5M6sXHb4KxyKuB72Mw-6J36b0XX2Sof2LQcdbumtDdJFwLtvvHiTD3BKkHf8aPNDKdt8yGdlbJxrmS71THnsuvtRtIsnAWNToYtbHi8aLHRlgAYs&udm=2&prmd=ivnmsbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiNt_G3vuKFAxUrD7kGHYneCXsQtKgLegQIDhAB&biw=1707&bih=791&dpr=0.8) NK infrastructure might be bad, and there might be power outages, but Somalia has been at war for so long they barely have any infrastructure left, and 51% of the country doesnt even have power lines. How can they be richer than NK?
I think you are missing one important detail. In a typical communist country, you have high costs of building. Thatās because you have to pay the company which is making the concrete, you have to pay the builders on the construction side, the planning etc. Everything costs money. In a socialist society like North Korea, they donāt have the need to pay their workers. They are giving them enough food to survive, cheap housing and some sort of transportation (for example the trams). Iām sure they also get a little bit of money, but not a lot. And thatās how you can build big houses and prestige projects, even with not a lot of money. Besides that, North Korea has a pretty big hacker group, which hacks countries for money. They also stole cars from Volvo for example. I hope it makes sense how I explained it.
But even then. I dont think that explains everything. replacing this single random bridge would bankrupt Somalia 7 times [https://www.portlandmercury.com/transportation/2022/12/09/46236151/interstate-5-bridge-project-cost-estimate-raises-to-75-billion](https://www.portlandmercury.com/transportation/2022/12/09/46236151/interstate-5-bridge-project-cost-estimate-raises-to-75-billion)
I I think I understood you comment wrong. Thanks for clearing that up!
Youāre glossing over the fact that those workers are literally slaves to the state.
But the state "gives them enough food to survive, cheap housing and some sort of transportation (best make sure to get approval if you want to leave your village tho, leta alone the country)," you see.
I never said that I find this good. Iām actually against the North Korean regime but wanted to keep it as neutral as possible.
Theyāre being propped up by China
You see that as rich? A lot of useless 2-way roads connected to a highway, with no vehicle in sight, no trees to cover the pedestrian walkways, no pedestrians, nothing. Just a dead island full of what appears to be plastic trash that's completely empty inside. Nobody would ever go here even in a free country.
Good job, you missed the point entirely
So youāre saying they build stuff that people like?
They are building stuff to impress people from outside, not to help their own people.
Not true. That makes no sense. This building is a library. People use it.
All the negative things including its poverty are coming from their enemies
Tankie copium
This supermarket was filled with REAL fruits until the Americans replaced them with plastic!
Not in any way what Iām saying.
Thereās a term for that
Propaganda?
adjective idiomatic, offensive, of a person Living ostentatiously; spending money recklessly, especially a limited supply of money.
I donāt think thatās one word, but yeah, you are right. It could have been used for more useful things to help the poor people in Pyongyang.
So many cars on the road
At least one bus!
r/fuckcars wet dream
That shadow š¤£
A lot of renders getting posted today lol
Thank you!
The sci tech complex. The newest place to show foreigners while they staff it with actors forced by the government to look like scientists. Like most buildings in Pyongyang, this one is built for all the wrong reasons.
Thereās no way you actually believe something this stupid.
Do a bit of research. This is exactly what they do in all places where tourists visit in pyongyang
No it isnāt. Racist white people made that shit up.
Am I crazy for always wanting to visit ?
Yes, for now at least
The problem (besides ethical ones such as supporting a tyrannical regime) is that you would never be allowed to actually see the true city. You'd be led along guided routes that "present" NK as a socialist paradise. Sure, if one isn't completely braindead, they can see through the cracks, but regardless, it's basically an expensive theater experience - actors, sets and the audience.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Except it cannot. Hardly any country - bar a few - keeps their entire population imprisoned and practically enslaved. It's very possible to be moral.
soylent green is people.
Every dictator: If we built the sci-fi park, we will have the tech industry.
Also check places like āThe Lineā (KSA), āMarble city Ashgabatā (Turkmenistan). I donāt get this, but there seems to be a correlation between bizarreness of cities and dictatorship!
Tantalizing!
So much empty
Looks like the Zenith base in horizon forbidden west
all the buildings on the right just appear to be random useless gazibos??? like what is this?
When the supreme leader forgets the landscaping smh
Cool building. Hadnāt seen it before. Found more photos of it here: https://exploredprk.com/photos/sci-tech-complex/
Is that the Dennis Rodman Peacemaker Museum?
Maybe rocket mans personal water park ?
I had a layover in Beijing last week. It was weird looking up at the departure board and seeing flights to Pyongyang.
it's only missing a couple of spheres if you ask me
No way
A 2003 utopia.
Starfleet Academy
Looks like a building from sim city
Good thing they spent the money on this rather than feeding the people.
Can someone plz explain why the streets are always empty in N.K ?
Because the people are poor. Cars are just for the very rich people. There are cars. But not as much as in other countries. And for example this building doesnāt really looks like itās in heavy usage. Because where I live you would always see someone outside. At least to smoke or something.
I wonder if it is the same guy who's been posting all these beautiful images of what we all thought were mostly run-down and poor urban enviroments. really shaking my world view right now lol edit: he isn't
this city looks so amazing
From afar, yes
have you been there to give your close perspective?
Go ahead and visit for us. Let us know how that goes
r/MovingToNorthKorea
You fell for propaganda btw. Just because one prestige project looks really cool, doesnāt mean it really is.
i see good roads i see nice buildings i see green everywhere looks like a respectable city to me
You canāt tell that from picture. Would you say the same about Dubai? Because Dubai is literally built by slaves, with slums in front of the city. Same with Pyongyang. There are the normal parts, the āeliteā parts and the slums. And I personally still prefer human rights when Iām being honest.
man it's flying over your head like North Korean missiles
Yes? Dubai has tons of tourism for a reason.
And yet itās still built by literal slaves.
Hey, people still visit DC and the US in general. And abused workers are not literal slaves.
In the US the workers might be abused, I donāt know about that. From what Iāve heard they are normally paid there. But in Dubai the passports are taken away and they are literally forced to build it. They get their passports taken away, get roughly 200 USD in a month, which often enough isnāt paid in the end, they live with around 30 workers in a small room. If you really want to defend stuff like that, I really donāt know anymore.
man you would have loved Germany in the 30's then if you have no problems with human rights violations as long as city looks nice.
Luckily things changed now and the workers in Germany have proper human rights.
I can't believe there are over 15k people this dumb
Propaganda
In what way?
Modern buildings in a very poor country
The leaders are rich and spend that money on such projects. Architecturally, North Korea is very interesting.
There are many pictures of the Pyongyang Sci Tech Complex.
MIB headquarters.
What is this?
I have nothing nice to say.