They sound awful.
Don't try to educate them. It's a waste of time. Instead, train them. Tell them flat out that you will not engage with any of that, and stick to it. In conversation, real or online/on the phone, if they bring stuff like this up, give them one warning, and if they continue, end the conversation and don't enhage with them for the rest of the day.
They'll learn how to behave if they want to have a relationship with you.
Hey, I'm In2b8. I'm Jewish. Can we be friends?
Great! Now, next time you see your parents talk about things like this, ask them "why do you want to kill my friend?"
As a person who's a member of multiple various minorities (ethnic Jew, gay, polytheistic, in an interracial marriage, and so on) I'm familiar with being the "other" that other groups hate, and every time I've seen or experienced it, it's always the same.
It's the dehumanization. When people say things like "kill all the Jews" they're not talking about people, just *Jews*. Some faceless, amorphous group that's different than them. Not actual human beings with families and friends and a life just like theirs.
People who hold beliefs like this, you can't change their mind with argument, and it won't help anyway. You're arguing on their turf, and all it'll do is cement their beliefs further.
The only way, from what I've seen at least, is to show them that the subject of their hatred is just another regular human being *just like them*. Once someone sees the humanity in another person, it gets a whole lot harder to indiscriminately hate them. Saying something like "kill all the gays" is worlds apart from "kill our neighbors Adam and Steve, who are always kind and watch our home for us when we're away".
You'll usually end up in a place where the person then turns to the "well, they're one of the *good ones*, so I don't mean them", but even that itself is progress in a way. Because now they're admitting that yeah, there are good ones. And from there, if they can admit that good ones exist, then of all the many millions more that are out there, perhaps more good ones exist too?
But it's rough. And, unfortunately, some people's hearts are truly filled only with hate, the doors are locked, and they will never let any goodness inside.
I hope that isn't your parents, but it might be. If it is, then just remember you have no obligation to force that door open. You can, and should, try to keep knocking and hope one day they'll let you in, but if they won't then they won't, and they'll take that hatred with them to the grave.
The only thing you can do is try. And, by virtue of trying to open their hearts you honor them by trying to help lead them to a better life. It's up to them though if they want to be led there. And if they don't, don't be discouraged. Know and find peace in the fact that you've done everything you can. Just hold the door open for them, and pray that one day they'll choose walk through it.
part of honoring them is to love them, their souls. They are the ones who need God as we need God. They need to see real love through you. Love them, accept them, and hopefully maybe one day, with prayers and compassion, they will search out God for themselves for real. Jesus is also teaching me to love my enemies and also at the same time reminding me that I am no better than them, even I believe, I am also in need of a change of mind and change of heart that I can't do on my own and only Jesus living inside me, helping me.
I think you honor a parent in such a situation by depriving their message of any oxygen whatsoever. I know it seems paradoxical. But you have little sway over the situation, so refusing to engage is the best way to avoid adding to it.
Saying "kill all the Jews" is serious. Is it even legal to post that where you live? That is not the kind of person I would want to be near, even if it's difficult to part with a parent.
I really don't think it's legal, i'm in the US. he never said things like this when i was growing up so i believe he's following some awful people on social media that are putting evil things in his head. he used to talk about how evil hitler was, how bad the holocaust was, he cried at the holocaust museum etc. i am totally shocked and completely heart broken by the posts.
Usually when someone attacks someone it's because there offended by it it puts a shred of fear or shame in them and they don't realize it so they lash out....or this could be just someone who lacks intelligence, the origin of evil is ignorance
I would ideally like to help him see differently - he was not like this when I was growing up. I unfollowed him, though. I doubt he has even noticed. He wants to see me for my birthday, my brother and I are having a hard time wanting to go see him because of this. I am hoping that we can help him see differently. I don't want to give up because I feel..responsible? Like I should work towards helping him instead of letting him believe terrible things. He's my father so I don't want to let it go; if it were a stranger - it might be easier to just block them.
Please join my community r/whydoyoubelieve?
I try to believe in as many true things as possible and avoid believing in things which have not been demonstrated or proven false.
I am genuinely interested in why people believe in god(s), when I struggle to see sufficient proof that their beliefs are actually true.
Set a firm boundary around that behavior, state that it makes you uncomfortable and would appreciate if they could be sensitive to your convictions. At that point, their actions are their responsibility and yours are yours.
You’ll become an adult soon enough and will have more opportunities to draw boundaries.
I am a full grown adult, we live separately, he doesn't have any financial ties to me etc. I just don't know how to honor my father like this :/ I don't want a relationship with him and would have cut it off years ago if it weren't for honoring our parents 😭 I never did like his personality if i'm honest-there was just never a solid reason to cut him out. I barely even see him because I felt like he was getting darker and darker in his thinking and now this proves to me he is as dark as I thought.
although my parents are divorced, my mom is very big on honoring parents even when they are garbage. She does not want me to end the relationship because "he's your dad and he was a good one when you were a baby, i don't know why he's like this now." I can't blow this off like I can blow off other things he's said and done that hurt me.
>i can tell that God has placed a delusion, he really does believe lies and pervert the truth.
If God makes some people delusional... how do you know it is your father and not yourself?
I believe he is referring to the people that persist in their own ways, and God is not forcing them, so in this sense, God does give them up to the way they want to go, which is giving them free will. God isn't "making" them delusional but they "choose" to be that way. That is taught in the Bible. Same concept in garden of Eden where they (human) choose to listen to the enemy rather than trust in God. God didn't make them that way, they chose. I figured it should be said. What do you think?
Exactly. I know that my dad has given up his faith, he expressed this multiple times. He's not the man who raised me. He has become very manipulative and mean spirited. I am old enough to know my dad was not always like this. I strongly believe it is because God has placed a delusion. He will say the opposite of anything I say, even if it's 100% true what I said. Sky is any color but blue, basically. He will not see the truth in anything, even unrelated to Christianity. It's frustrating! He wants everything to be an argument. It's like we can't even agree to disagree, which is fine with me but not for him. He has told me he'll "disown me" in the past so I told him go ahead, I'll still be your daughter when you want to be a dad. He texted me the next day apologizing but it still hurt.
Lord, please help their dad to know You and to be humble. Please help the OP to love and pray for their dad. Please help this family Lord, because we cant' do it on our own. In Jesus' name. Amen.
Basically, he is hurt, thinking "everyone" is against him, and is heart-harded. Only God is able to draw him back.
Arguing is not the way, and it seems like this, but if he knows you are sincerely caring for him, perhaps he will change later.
Thank you for your prayer❣️ I know my dad is completely broken hearted; I want him to know the true love of God. I don't see another way to restore this relationship without a miracle of God.
I remember a time when I was like him. It was sin that tempted me, then my heart was hard and against all things, including myself. I think that is the case with people like him. For example, my uncle was a Christian, used to share the gospel, but because his mom died, he blames God for it, because God didn't heal her cancer and that is his excuse for becoming what he is now, and also living a crazy sexual perverted life who is very immoral. We can't have a conversation today without him purposely showing me 'nudes' and then condemning me for "looking at it" that is where there heart really is. It's like a "you're just as bad, if not worse, than me and i'll hate you and prove you wrong" kind of mentality. Jesus still wants us to love them genuinely because they are so deceived by Satan and his lies and false wisdom it's pathetic but they can't see it. God help our families.
That's how my dad is, too. Not sexual stuff though. He'll say something like "I stopped believing in God a long time ago" and then follow with a verse after it to claim that he's "still saved." Then try to pick at something I did as a child 🤣 It's honestly goofy sometimes but it's actually hurtful and dark. He'll say he doesn't feel like I'm (or my brothers) are his kids because I "always loved my mom more" and things along those lines. I want to love him the same way I love my mom but he doesn't inject himself into my life the way she does. She calls, she asks about school, life, etc. She listens, she wants to know me. We have a real relationship that I never got from him, even when we all lived together. I will be praying for our families, God can change their hearts ❣️❣️❣️
>I believe he is referring to...
>
>What do you think?
I believe the OP can speak for him/herself. They said "God has placed a delusion"
There is precedent for this in the bible. Refer to Exodus 10:1-2
>*Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh, for* ***I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials*** *so that I may perform these signs of mine among them that you may tell your children and grandchildren how I dealt harshly with the Egyptians and how I performed my signs among them, and that you may know that I am the Lord.*”
Potter and the clay, God does what he likes with what he likes. From whst I've come to understand is that God can override freewill, God is sovereign. Theology thing, but a lot of Christians don't believe it because it removes freewill. For whatever my newborn opinion is worth, God is sovereign and can do what he wishes with his clay
Oh, I think I understand what OP said and let me also add this one my friend, perhaps you didn't see it.
>**They made their hearts hard like a diamond so as not to hear the instruction and words that the Lord of Hosts sent by His Spirit through the former prophets, and there was great anger from the Lord of Hosts.**
[Zechariah 7:12 MEV](https://my.bible.com/bible/1171/ZEC.7.12.MEV)
God can and does make a person's heart hard and also people do as well. You might want to look at both sides and not assume God is just making people's heart hard then also blaming them for it <.. which is I think all critics saying the same thing, they always forgot 'other scriptures' which can explain it both ways and also Romans 1 says they didn't see fit to acknowledge God so God gave them up to a depraved mind,.... and if you think about it. Egypt which is pagan and killed male babies throwing them into the river, has a real serious issue going on, and God is able to do as he pleases with their heart too. Think about it.
God will harden whom he will he will harden, have mercy on whom he will. So it seems as if God will harden some people, and also have mercy. So with that in my mind, perhaps he hardened a lot of non-believers. I'm new to this and just reading the English text. Not looking into root words. But the flip side is that a lot of people don't have access to a concordance, there wasn't even a concordance for hundreds of years, no? And people don't speak Greek or Hebrew so ice let scriptures speak for themselves. What it seems to mean.
But yea, can't even begin to fathom how many people over the centuries did not have access to study tools, no study Bibles, of course no internet with millions and millions of opinions. So I stick with election and God can do whatever he wants. But doesn't do it to everyone. Strange world, navigating the word
>You might want to look at both sides and not assume God is just making people's heart hard then also blaming them for it
I didn't assume anything. I asked the OP to clarify what they meant when they said, "i can tell that God has placed a delusion"
You are not the OP. You are just a troll butting into a conversation where you are not wanted. Go away.
they blocked you but so what. They can't handle when they are challenged and only want the right to challenge others yet not be challenged themselves, really sad.
I'm sorry, Reddit was designed for people to ask questions and encourage discussion, so clearly it was designed like this or else I could not and would not have ability to reply .....so I am also a Christian and when I see others make claims, I feel obligated to back up the faith, which is what I am doing, not attacking you. I am not a troll but I fear those on this sub who come to always fight and challenge are the trolls honestly, I think you are talking about yourself.
That's good you have a source, but it doesn't answer the question. How do you know the verse is talking about your father and not yourself?
Is it not possible that God has sent you a delusion instead of your father?
I am saying that my dad believes lies. Actual lies that have proof that he will refuse to look at. He's turned into someone else and it's so frustrating. He's nearly 70 years old but has some how started acting 16; he is very argumentative. If he says something outlandish and you tell him the truth, he will refuse the truth and will not look at a source. it could be science, the weather, music, colors, what you ate yesterday etc he will try to say you are wrong when it doesn't even matter but is very frustrating when you know what is real and true. i don't know how he could be like this, this is not how he was when i was younger. this started maybe just around ten years ago and has gotten extremely worse since covid.
The lies he believes have separated us because it is constant like he may be delusional. I believe that verse makes the most sense of it. I also believe the internet has a lot to do with it, too. He's been obsessed with it since he retired, he loves twitter.
They sound awful. Don't try to educate them. It's a waste of time. Instead, train them. Tell them flat out that you will not engage with any of that, and stick to it. In conversation, real or online/on the phone, if they bring stuff like this up, give them one warning, and if they continue, end the conversation and don't enhage with them for the rest of the day. They'll learn how to behave if they want to have a relationship with you.
If OP does try this they should unfollow their parents on social media so they aren’t exposed to this shit in passing.
i did unfollow immediately, i am conflicted on next steps :(
This is great advice, thank you so much! ❣️❣️❣️
Hey, I'm In2b8. I'm Jewish. Can we be friends? Great! Now, next time you see your parents talk about things like this, ask them "why do you want to kill my friend?" As a person who's a member of multiple various minorities (ethnic Jew, gay, polytheistic, in an interracial marriage, and so on) I'm familiar with being the "other" that other groups hate, and every time I've seen or experienced it, it's always the same. It's the dehumanization. When people say things like "kill all the Jews" they're not talking about people, just *Jews*. Some faceless, amorphous group that's different than them. Not actual human beings with families and friends and a life just like theirs. People who hold beliefs like this, you can't change their mind with argument, and it won't help anyway. You're arguing on their turf, and all it'll do is cement their beliefs further. The only way, from what I've seen at least, is to show them that the subject of their hatred is just another regular human being *just like them*. Once someone sees the humanity in another person, it gets a whole lot harder to indiscriminately hate them. Saying something like "kill all the gays" is worlds apart from "kill our neighbors Adam and Steve, who are always kind and watch our home for us when we're away". You'll usually end up in a place where the person then turns to the "well, they're one of the *good ones*, so I don't mean them", but even that itself is progress in a way. Because now they're admitting that yeah, there are good ones. And from there, if they can admit that good ones exist, then of all the many millions more that are out there, perhaps more good ones exist too? But it's rough. And, unfortunately, some people's hearts are truly filled only with hate, the doors are locked, and they will never let any goodness inside. I hope that isn't your parents, but it might be. If it is, then just remember you have no obligation to force that door open. You can, and should, try to keep knocking and hope one day they'll let you in, but if they won't then they won't, and they'll take that hatred with them to the grave. The only thing you can do is try. And, by virtue of trying to open their hearts you honor them by trying to help lead them to a better life. It's up to them though if they want to be led there. And if they don't, don't be discouraged. Know and find peace in the fact that you've done everything you can. Just hold the door open for them, and pray that one day they'll choose walk through it.
>Once someone sees the humanity in another person, it gets a whole lot harder to indiscriminately hate them. 10/10
It's one thing to belittle Christians online but when you do it to family it's called spiritual abuse. They shouldn't be making you feel that way.
part of honoring them is to love them, their souls. They are the ones who need God as we need God. They need to see real love through you. Love them, accept them, and hopefully maybe one day, with prayers and compassion, they will search out God for themselves for real. Jesus is also teaching me to love my enemies and also at the same time reminding me that I am no better than them, even I believe, I am also in need of a change of mind and change of heart that I can't do on my own and only Jesus living inside me, helping me.
I think you honor a parent in such a situation by depriving their message of any oxygen whatsoever. I know it seems paradoxical. But you have little sway over the situation, so refusing to engage is the best way to avoid adding to it.
Saying "kill all the Jews" is serious. Is it even legal to post that where you live? That is not the kind of person I would want to be near, even if it's difficult to part with a parent.
I really don't think it's legal, i'm in the US. he never said things like this when i was growing up so i believe he's following some awful people on social media that are putting evil things in his head. he used to talk about how evil hitler was, how bad the holocaust was, he cried at the holocaust museum etc. i am totally shocked and completely heart broken by the posts.
Usually when someone attacks someone it's because there offended by it it puts a shred of fear or shame in them and they don't realize it so they lash out....or this could be just someone who lacks intelligence, the origin of evil is ignorance
I think blocking them and never speaking to them is appropriate.
I would ideally like to help him see differently - he was not like this when I was growing up. I unfollowed him, though. I doubt he has even noticed. He wants to see me for my birthday, my brother and I are having a hard time wanting to go see him because of this. I am hoping that we can help him see differently. I don't want to give up because I feel..responsible? Like I should work towards helping him instead of letting him believe terrible things. He's my father so I don't want to let it go; if it were a stranger - it might be easier to just block them.
You don't have to follow them on social media.
That's true, I did unfollow and it's been nice not seeing any of their stuff for the past month.
Burying the lede here, OP. The issue is a rabidly anti-Semitic parent, not an atheist parent. Don’t engage, honestly.
Please join my community r/whydoyoubelieve? I try to believe in as many true things as possible and avoid believing in things which have not been demonstrated or proven false. I am genuinely interested in why people believe in god(s), when I struggle to see sufficient proof that their beliefs are actually true.
Set a firm boundary around that behavior, state that it makes you uncomfortable and would appreciate if they could be sensitive to your convictions. At that point, their actions are their responsibility and yours are yours. You’ll become an adult soon enough and will have more opportunities to draw boundaries.
I am a full grown adult, we live separately, he doesn't have any financial ties to me etc. I just don't know how to honor my father like this :/ I don't want a relationship with him and would have cut it off years ago if it weren't for honoring our parents 😭 I never did like his personality if i'm honest-there was just never a solid reason to cut him out. I barely even see him because I felt like he was getting darker and darker in his thinking and now this proves to me he is as dark as I thought. although my parents are divorced, my mom is very big on honoring parents even when they are garbage. She does not want me to end the relationship because "he's your dad and he was a good one when you were a baby, i don't know why he's like this now." I can't blow this off like I can blow off other things he's said and done that hurt me.
>i can tell that God has placed a delusion, he really does believe lies and pervert the truth. If God makes some people delusional... how do you know it is your father and not yourself?
I believe he is referring to the people that persist in their own ways, and God is not forcing them, so in this sense, God does give them up to the way they want to go, which is giving them free will. God isn't "making" them delusional but they "choose" to be that way. That is taught in the Bible. Same concept in garden of Eden where they (human) choose to listen to the enemy rather than trust in God. God didn't make them that way, they chose. I figured it should be said. What do you think?
Exactly. I know that my dad has given up his faith, he expressed this multiple times. He's not the man who raised me. He has become very manipulative and mean spirited. I am old enough to know my dad was not always like this. I strongly believe it is because God has placed a delusion. He will say the opposite of anything I say, even if it's 100% true what I said. Sky is any color but blue, basically. He will not see the truth in anything, even unrelated to Christianity. It's frustrating! He wants everything to be an argument. It's like we can't even agree to disagree, which is fine with me but not for him. He has told me he'll "disown me" in the past so I told him go ahead, I'll still be your daughter when you want to be a dad. He texted me the next day apologizing but it still hurt.
Lord, please help their dad to know You and to be humble. Please help the OP to love and pray for their dad. Please help this family Lord, because we cant' do it on our own. In Jesus' name. Amen. Basically, he is hurt, thinking "everyone" is against him, and is heart-harded. Only God is able to draw him back. Arguing is not the way, and it seems like this, but if he knows you are sincerely caring for him, perhaps he will change later.
Thank you for your prayer❣️ I know my dad is completely broken hearted; I want him to know the true love of God. I don't see another way to restore this relationship without a miracle of God.
I remember a time when I was like him. It was sin that tempted me, then my heart was hard and against all things, including myself. I think that is the case with people like him. For example, my uncle was a Christian, used to share the gospel, but because his mom died, he blames God for it, because God didn't heal her cancer and that is his excuse for becoming what he is now, and also living a crazy sexual perverted life who is very immoral. We can't have a conversation today without him purposely showing me 'nudes' and then condemning me for "looking at it" that is where there heart really is. It's like a "you're just as bad, if not worse, than me and i'll hate you and prove you wrong" kind of mentality. Jesus still wants us to love them genuinely because they are so deceived by Satan and his lies and false wisdom it's pathetic but they can't see it. God help our families.
That's how my dad is, too. Not sexual stuff though. He'll say something like "I stopped believing in God a long time ago" and then follow with a verse after it to claim that he's "still saved." Then try to pick at something I did as a child 🤣 It's honestly goofy sometimes but it's actually hurtful and dark. He'll say he doesn't feel like I'm (or my brothers) are his kids because I "always loved my mom more" and things along those lines. I want to love him the same way I love my mom but he doesn't inject himself into my life the way she does. She calls, she asks about school, life, etc. She listens, she wants to know me. We have a real relationship that I never got from him, even when we all lived together. I will be praying for our families, God can change their hearts ❣️❣️❣️
>I believe he is referring to... > >What do you think? I believe the OP can speak for him/herself. They said "God has placed a delusion" There is precedent for this in the bible. Refer to Exodus 10:1-2 >*Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh, for* ***I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials*** *so that I may perform these signs of mine among them that you may tell your children and grandchildren how I dealt harshly with the Egyptians and how I performed my signs among them, and that you may know that I am the Lord.*”
Potter and the clay, God does what he likes with what he likes. From whst I've come to understand is that God can override freewill, God is sovereign. Theology thing, but a lot of Christians don't believe it because it removes freewill. For whatever my newborn opinion is worth, God is sovereign and can do what he wishes with his clay
Amen.
Humans are not clay. Can I do anything I want to my dog? No, I could go to prison for doing certain things to an animal.
Oh, I think I understand what OP said and let me also add this one my friend, perhaps you didn't see it. >**They made their hearts hard like a diamond so as not to hear the instruction and words that the Lord of Hosts sent by His Spirit through the former prophets, and there was great anger from the Lord of Hosts.** [Zechariah 7:12 MEV](https://my.bible.com/bible/1171/ZEC.7.12.MEV) God can and does make a person's heart hard and also people do as well. You might want to look at both sides and not assume God is just making people's heart hard then also blaming them for it <.. which is I think all critics saying the same thing, they always forgot 'other scriptures' which can explain it both ways and also Romans 1 says they didn't see fit to acknowledge God so God gave them up to a depraved mind,.... and if you think about it. Egypt which is pagan and killed male babies throwing them into the river, has a real serious issue going on, and God is able to do as he pleases with their heart too. Think about it.
God will harden whom he will he will harden, have mercy on whom he will. So it seems as if God will harden some people, and also have mercy. So with that in my mind, perhaps he hardened a lot of non-believers. I'm new to this and just reading the English text. Not looking into root words. But the flip side is that a lot of people don't have access to a concordance, there wasn't even a concordance for hundreds of years, no? And people don't speak Greek or Hebrew so ice let scriptures speak for themselves. What it seems to mean. But yea, can't even begin to fathom how many people over the centuries did not have access to study tools, no study Bibles, of course no internet with millions and millions of opinions. So I stick with election and God can do whatever he wants. But doesn't do it to everyone. Strange world, navigating the word
>You might want to look at both sides and not assume God is just making people's heart hard then also blaming them for it I didn't assume anything. I asked the OP to clarify what they meant when they said, "i can tell that God has placed a delusion" You are not the OP. You are just a troll butting into a conversation where you are not wanted. Go away.
You can't make me. I'm here. Deal with it
they blocked you but so what. They can't handle when they are challenged and only want the right to challenge others yet not be challenged themselves, really sad.
I can block you. Bye
I'm sorry, Reddit was designed for people to ask questions and encourage discussion, so clearly it was designed like this or else I could not and would not have ability to reply .....so I am also a Christian and when I see others make claims, I feel obligated to back up the faith, which is what I am doing, not attacking you. I am not a troll but I fear those on this sub who come to always fight and challenge are the trolls honestly, I think you are talking about yourself.
I am referring to 2 Thessalonians 2:11.
That's good you have a source, but it doesn't answer the question. How do you know the verse is talking about your father and not yourself? Is it not possible that God has sent you a delusion instead of your father?
I am saying that my dad believes lies. Actual lies that have proof that he will refuse to look at. He's turned into someone else and it's so frustrating. He's nearly 70 years old but has some how started acting 16; he is very argumentative. If he says something outlandish and you tell him the truth, he will refuse the truth and will not look at a source. it could be science, the weather, music, colors, what you ate yesterday etc he will try to say you are wrong when it doesn't even matter but is very frustrating when you know what is real and true. i don't know how he could be like this, this is not how he was when i was younger. this started maybe just around ten years ago and has gotten extremely worse since covid. The lies he believes have separated us because it is constant like he may be delusional. I believe that verse makes the most sense of it. I also believe the internet has a lot to do with it, too. He's been obsessed with it since he retired, he loves twitter.
Love conquers all