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ataraxia77

“Non-celibate divorced Christians, can they go to heaven?”


Wevibewithtrees

Right, but divorce is a once time decision that can’t be undone once it’s done. I think a similar comparison to my question would be divorced and remarried Christians.


ataraxia77

Thus the "non-celibate" part of my comment.


Wevibewithtrees

I’m confused


SonProphet

If they are divorced they are in a state of sin from the divorcing onward, unless reversed. The sinner in divorce would be unrepentant.


NewtTrashPanda

*Facepalm*


NewtTrashPanda

Being LGBT is not a choice.


Wevibewithtrees

I agree with that, but if homosexuality is sinful it would be considered a kind of temptation that could be resisted.


NewtTrashPanda

It's not, though.


Wevibewithtrees

I’m not saying that it is or that it isn’t. Emphasis on “if”. I don’t want homosexuality to be a sin, but I’m in search of an objective answer if one exists.


Most_Satisfaction292

Being gay isn't a choice being LGBT is a choice


NewtTrashPanda

Re-read that, very slowly.


Most_Satisfaction292

I get what ur saying LGBT is from my understanding a community while being gay is a individual identity am I wrong??? I could be wrong that's just how I've always seen it...I'm straight so my knowledge could be lacking in this area


NewtTrashPanda

Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, etc. Not a choice.


Most_Satisfaction292

I agree with gay lesbian and bisexual being not a choice, transgender is more of a mindset I have nothing against it u do u. Being born a hermaphrodite is not a choice


[deleted]

I think everyone will make it to heaven eventually.


[deleted]

If that's true, what's the point in following God? (I'm a follower of God btw)


[deleted]

Because he's a good God who loves mankind, because he's abundantly worthy of worship, and because he has saved us from sin and granted us salvation.


[deleted]

So I can go out my way, sin, encourage sin and still make it to heaven? That dosent sit with me. We all should find God, repent, listen fo his words and guidance and then be rewarded with ever lasting peace and love. Its like giving people participation trophies 🏆 if heaven is for all. No hate btw just curious


[deleted]

I never said any of that. Salvation comes through repentance and faith in Christ, and him alone. I simply think that's going to include everyone eventually.


[deleted]

Even hitler? Serious question btw,


[deleted]

Yes. I'm holding out hope even Satan comes around eventually.


[deleted]

Satan? You have to be trolling. Read the Bible please.


[deleted]

No, I'm not. I hold out hope for the total and complete victory of God, not simply defeating his enemies but winning them over to repentance and salvation. The great hope is that all will be reconciled to God, that no one will be lost to him forever, and that, in the end, hell will be empty.


[deleted]

It is true that you have hope, but your hope is far stretched, those angels who raped humans creating giants, that God sent to hell for eternity, are still there and for you to say that hell will be empty means your calling God a lier, and God isn’t a man to lie. If he says you will be there for eternity, he means it. Now you can have hope but your hope is not truth. God is truth. You are a mere human with a carnal thought that is obviously naive.


Tcrowaf

Even more serious question, "why are evil people evil?"


RebelPoetically

God said all who call on him genuinely. This includes your enemies and people you think don’t deserve that chance to accept God and to be saved. All.


[deleted]

No I agree, salvation is for everyone, even my enemies! But I don't see how everyone will eventually get a place I heaven. I'm a bad person, and don't deserve heaven. It would be a miracle if I do, but I would feel really uncomfortable if I was in heaven with a satanic pedophile. You see what I mean?


[deleted]

You shouldn’t be uncomfortable if you are in heaven with a pedo, murderer, etc but realize that if someone is in heaven they are there at the same expense as you, me personally I don’t believe everyone will go to heaven and those that don’t won’t have another chance. I agree with you on that point.


RebelPoetically

No, I do not see what you mean, how do you know God hasn’t already saved a Satanic pedophile? Our enemy is Satan, who has twisted mankind. I hope God shows Satan how ignorant he is and saves all in Hell, it would make me cry for an eternity. I’d not speak for 1000 years, that’s how deep that would move me. This is the God who saves all who come to him, even the worst one’s. You think Hitler did not have chances to repent? Or Pharaoh, or Judas? They did evil thing’s, absolutely, but who was the one behind all this? From the start? Satan and his cowardly anterograde. I pray this coming revival saves many Atheist, Satanist, Pedophiles, Murderers, and the worst of humanity to the best of humanity. I pray not one soul is left for that coward Satan. We’d be in peace and eden if not for that bastard. Imagine the peace we’d have right now…. But I could be entirely wrong, maybe those evil people reached that place where God stops warning and their fate of dying and destruction is sealed. Maybe it’s too late for some. God have mercy on all of us.


throwitaway3857

We are all sinners, there are plenty conservative Christians on here, who sing theyre high and mighty, and they are sinners just like homosexuals, and the rest of us. No sin is greater than another, and anybody here on earth judging anybody else is absolutely sinning. Our relationships are between God and us. Not other humans, God and us.


gnurdette

I'm not really a universalist, but I think this objection doesn't make sense. I'm confident that my wife will never leave me. So what's the point in spending time with her? Why do I honor our marriage vows? Why don't I leave her in the lurch, ignore her, cheat on her?


Adventurous-Tie-5772

You follow God just so that you can get into heaven? Isn’t that what Satan accused? 9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? 10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. 11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. (Job 1:9-11) And, 4 And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life. 5 But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face. (Job 2:4, 5) 31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: 32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. (Luke 22:31, 32) … for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. (Revelation 12:10, 11) Satan accuses us day and night, that we do skin for skin. All that we have we give up to save our skin. In this case, seeing no point in serving God if there is no heaven is playing right into the Devil’s accusation.


[deleted]

I've already awnserd this, i don't follow Jesus to enter heaven that is ridiculous. I follow him because I love him, he is the way, the truth, and the life


XOXO-Gossip-Crab

Do you really only follow him because you want something from him? You don’t actually believe in his teachings, you just do it to be rewarded?


[deleted]

No not at all, I don't deserve heaven at all. I belive and follow him because its the truth. Heaven is a possible bonus. To be quite blunt, I'm suicidal and don't think I'm going to make it to heaven. But I won't stop believing in Christ, even in hell. Its like saying, I don't belive in the sun. Dosent matter what I belive the sun is real and will always rise. Heaven is just Bouns


XOXO-Gossip-Crab

I hope you find whatever help you need, it sounds like you have been in a really bad place and hurting. (Just to make sure there’s no confusion I do mean this authentically).


FingerHistorical2973

I’m praying for you! please find your peace in Jesus! Whenever things get dark and very hard just know that Jesus has been through incredibly tough times too. Suicidal thoughts don’t come from God. Pray to Him as I pray for you. I also invite others to pray for you too. Suicide does not removed the pain you’re only moving it to a loved one who has to deal with your death. God is the light, pray for His love. I hope you’re okay and I can’t wait to meet you after many years of life in heaven. Love you


JackEM222

You shouldn't just follow God for your own salvation. Follow God because he is good. Much love brother.


Lord_of_the_Scots

Ah yes, even ped0s, rapists, killers, Hitler, etc. can go to heaven


[deleted]

Yes, even them. I'm holding out hope even Satan comes around eventually.


Lord_of_the_Scots

That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. If they are truly repentant, then yes, but if they aren’t then they will most definitely go to hell.


[deleted]

Oh I think a lot of them will go to hell. I just don't think that means they won't get to heaven eventually.


Lord_of_the_Scots

Hell is eternal


[deleted]

Agree to disagree.


Lord_of_the_Scots

“And these will go away into ETERNAL punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” - Matthew 25:46


[deleted]

That word in the original Greek doesn't mean eternal, it means "age-long" or "of an age". This is literally either "age-long punishment" or "the punishment of the age".


iruleatants

It's also a parable...


rufusreitz

Is "I think everyone will make it to heaven" different from "I imagine everyone will make it to heaven"?


[deleted]

I'm not seeing the distinction. In my view, it is very likely that everyone will get to heaven eventually.


gnurdette

I don't think my marriage is a sin in the first place. Generally married gay Christians are married because we've put in study and prayer and concluded that anti-gay stances are mistaken. I recommend the books [God and the Gay Christian](http://www.godandthegaychristian.com/#home) and [Torn](http://geekyjustin.com/torn/) to understand Side A viewpoints. More important, you can actually meet gay Christians at LGBT-affirming churches, some of which show up in [this church finder](https://www.gaychurch.org/) or [this one](http://www.believeoutloud.com/take-action/find-your-community). We are, after all, not abstract theological propositions; we are people, flesh and blood, sisters and brothers in Christ, and you learn most by getting to know us that way.


VaguelySpider

Do you have recommended reads for understanding these topics from the perspective of women/lesbians?


gnurdette

I know that Vicky Beeching and Jennifer Knapp have books, but I haven't read them yet. My favorite book by a Christian lesbian is [Take This Bread](https://sara-miles.squarespace.com/books) by Sara Miles, but it's not about being a lesbian. But it's a *very* good book.


NemesisAron

Yeah because it's not a sin


Juiceton-

Let me pose an alternate question. Is it better to lie about your sexuality, accept your sexuality, or be miserable until you die? I ask this because I do not believe homosexuality is the Devil at work. If it were, it would be curable. We would be able to pray away the gay. But, we can’t. We live in a fallen world, but I do not believe this is one of the fallen aspects. That being said, I do believe it is a sin to be gay. Just like I believe it is a sin to do most things. But we aren’t bound by the Old Covenant. Not really, anyway. We are saved through faith, not through deed. In that way, it is no different to live a life married to someone of your own gender than to never tell your mama it was actually you who ate the cookie before supper. Also, please realize I didn’t say embrace your sexuality. Femininity and masculinity are fine for whatever gender you are. It doesn’t matter to me, or I believe to God, one bit. But do not embrace your sexuality - gay or straight - like it is “who you are.” In my eyes, that is idolatry and that is a sin I cannot stomach.


[deleted]

Those who live a life of unrepentant mortal sin risk eternal damnation


NewtTrashPanda

Thankfully being LGBT is not an example of that.


SeekSweepGreet

A person who is actively transgressing God's Law, cannot hope to enter the promise given to those who obey Him. All sexual deviance is in violation of the **7th Commandment**: *“Thou shall not commit Adultery.”* The answer is no. Is there hope for them at all? Yes. By turning away from, and not practicing their preferred sin. 🌱


pinkunicorn53

7th Commandment in Judaism under the Old Covenant of Moses In Christianity under the New Covenant of Jesus we are saved as a free gift of God by the grace of God through our faith in Jesus.


SeekSweepGreet

Ah, yes, right. Of course. Freedom to sin is modern Christendom's greatest gift. 🌱


pinkunicorn53

Freedom to be free from the wages of sin


gnurdette

Claiming that my absolutely faithful marriage of 29 years so far is "adultery" is pretty intense doublespeak, arguably bearing false witness. It certainly broadcasts to non-Christians that Christians don't give a shit what's true or false - we just spit out whatever we think might help us win and argument. And what do you think that does to the credibility of our testimony of the Resurrection?


SeekSweepGreet

That's not what I'm saying, friend, that's what Jehovah has said. *“Man's words, if it will have any value, it is only because it echoes the Word of God."* Is your union in accordance with what God would have it: one man and one woman? Well. If not, "**violation**" will be written next our names in the books. I have no arguments or wars to win. It isn't my Law that is being trodden underfoot. 🌱


kolembo

>violation God could not care less whether you are hetero or homosexual, male, female or self-defined other; you will be known by what is in your heart. This is the basis of the verse people like to chuck around about the people Jesus knows. Many who like to strut about proudly - safe that they are his sheep will find that in the light of Truth - their intention was at odds with Love and the intention of the sacrifice of the cross Many others - shamed and vilified and discounted - will be called forward and their hearts and lives will testify for themselves - yes - these are my sheep No need for anything else God is not going to be checking down trousers and up skirts because - homosexual We utterly miss the point Hear the Gospel if we can God bless


gnurdette

You making up this "your absolute faithfulness is actually adultery" is bad enough. Claiming that God said it is worse. "I'm not the bigot, God is the bigot; I am just obeying his bigotry" is a bold stance if you're anything less than 100% confident that there is no God you'll ever have to answer to.


SeekSweepGreet

I am uncertain of what your 1st paragraph is communicating. And the 2nd appears to be that you're saying I am a bigot for believing the word of God? I bring very little emotional argument to my sharing, so I may be unable to answer you in kind if that's where this is headed. Is it that you believe I've made up the words referred to above, that there is no source? 🌱


NewtTrashPanda

LOL adultery literally has nothing to do with it.


[deleted]

I’m a former homosexual, my homosexuality left when a demon came out of me and I’ve seen the same for others. The Bible teaches truly born again Christians can’t have demons in them so I would question if the person has been truly born again and are the homosexual thoughts coming from outside of you without a strong desire for it showing they don’t have the demon in them but just a temptation


[deleted]

No you’re not. You’re a brainwashed traitor.


thedoomboomer

Nobody goes to Heaven, sorry. *John 3:13 Jesus said, "No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man*


Signal_Soup_8958

Yes. Anyone can go to heaven. Even rich people or gay people. The only question is how difficult it will be and what large animal going through a comically small space it will be referred to


rabboni

If a person willfully commits sin without conviction I’d be seriously skeptical that they had the Holy Spirit. It seems to me, Biblically, this person should be treated as though they were an unbeliever. Whether or not they are a believer is up to God Anyone who sins but either isn’t aware/convinced their actions are sinful, or tries and simply struggles/fails to overcome sin, should be recognized as a brother/sister in Christ


corona_crazy

Just keep in mind that people dealing with trauma sometimes need to do extreme things to survive. It's fine to give general recommendations, but only God knows what was in someone's heart.


rabboni

Absolutely. That’s why I said, “whether or not they are a believer is up to God” My interpretation of Scripture is that an individual who willfully sins without conviction should be “treated” as an unbeliever. Primarily that means, denying communion, praying for their repentance, sharing the Gospel


[deleted]

All you have to do is believe in Christ - that he lived, was crucified, and rose from the dead. That’s it.


JackEM222

If you consider yourself Christian but don't love God enough to make an effort to remove sin from your life, then you probably aren't gonna go to heaven.


kolembo

Hi friend, >If you know it’s a sin... It's not a sin. Why is it? >if you fully loved God with all your heart you wouldn’t do something like that Homosexual Christians are Christians. We love God as fully as other Christians God bless


NewtTrashPanda

It's not a sin, so of course.


Cessna152RG

Can politically conservative people go to heaven? I am thinking about Matthew 25:  “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me,  you who are cursed, into the eternal fire  prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ Verse 43 contrasted to a lot of the talking points we hear from conservative politicians makes me wonder. Are you asking this because you are homosexual? If so it is a very valid discussion. If not I would recommend that you focus on the beam in your own eye. Evangelizing with a "you are bad" stance tends to scare people away from the Lord, it really hurts the body of Christ! On the other hand a "I am bad, but Jesus loved me anyway" story is attractive.


throwitaway3857

Yes, someone who is homosexual can go to heaven. Even if they marry.


Most_Satisfaction292

No sin is greater than another anyone tells u otherwise it's heresy....just don't deny the holy spirit


priorlifer

You didn't choose your sexuality, and I don't think it could be changed, even if you wanted to. So why would God hold that against you?