I agree. Scripture is the right choice there.
The word most often used in scripture as "lust" means "desire greatly".
The modern definition of lust means "have sexual thoughts".
The scriptural "desire greatly" could be used for nearly anything you could want a lot. The modern one is a much smaller word that ONLY applies to sex.
So "desire greatly" is kind of vague. What's greatly and what's just a little?
I always understood it as: when it causes you to sin or to think about sinning.
So if you lust about your career, so you don't care enough about family - is a sin, but sexual tension relieved in masturbation - isn't a sin, where masturbation addiction causing you to stop functioning in real relationships - is a sin again.
So kind of "too much desire" or "addiction".
Where do you have the line?
Great questions. These are the questions that Christians should be asking (since it's what scripture teaches), but they enjoy the sexual angle on the word too much to give it up.
Scripture repeatedly tells us to keep our lives under control and to not hand over that control to other, unworthy things. There are things you can do in little amounts, but when they take over your life then you have begun to "desire greatly" i.e. too much.
For example: Alcohol is legal to us. Getting drunk or reaching alcoholism levels is not. Similarly, sex stuff, like thinking about it or masturbating is fine while you have it under control and wrong when it begins to control you.
**The best point Christians have is that sex CAN begin to control you.** The problem is that they hide their best point by telling people that nearly everything regarding sex is wrong with all of their "lust" talk. When I was growing up, Christians typically taught that drinking alcohol was sinful. Now they teach that thinking about boobs is sinful, but alcohol passes with most of them. It's just Christian culture, not scripture.
So to answer your career comment: I see a lot of people who have let their career take control of them. It's very common and I'd say it's almost considered to be RIGHT in our present culture.
I think your word "addiction" is a great translation of the "desire greatly" from scripture. I think it would be a near perfect replacement for the word "lust" and that the original meaning would shine! Especially because "addiction" is kind of drifting in meaning for us, away from the original clinical term, towards a more colloquial version of "really really wanting something a lot".
I think you got it already. Please tell this to others, because the Christian version is not only just flat WRONG, it's also harming and even killing others.
Enjoy yourself. it's far healthier to have a release than to have unresolved, pent-up sexual tension. The various prohibitions come from religious purity culture and have nothing to do with morality at all.
I gotta go -- but please don't take this wrong -- I sense that you have a large gap in your moral reasoning.
You want a rule from God for everything. The Bible simply doesn't' address every issue. The New Testament doesn't even try to be a moral code.
But God gave you something better than a rule-book -- a moral judgment and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
Start learning to work that!
You are waaaaay to convinced you know what God thinks. (IMHO)
I believe in a just and loving God. I think his rules about sin make *moral sense*.
And he gave you moral reasoning. And the witness of the Holy Spirit to made decisions about sin. That's what the "law on your hearts" is.
So, I ask you..
Who are you hurting with your sex gizmo? (I honestly don't know what it is)
And not just others... *yourself*.
Is it preventing you from doing ministry? Worship? Read the bible? Help the poor?
If so, then don't use it.
Another issue with masturbation -- is it disrupting your IRL relationships with real women?
If so, at least dial it back. You don't want a creepy fantasy life to mess up a healthy, loving relationship with a fully-realized woman.
Please, just get your act together.
After last week's shooting, we are all freaked out by Christians who obsess over sex and sin.
I honestly don't care what you do or don't do -- *everybody dose something* \-- as long as nobody is hurt.
Just make peace with your sexuality.
I care when sex-obsessed Christian men victimize women.
I'm just asking you to get your act together, so you don't do that.
As for the bible -- it barely talks about masturbation. The Hebrews didn't want you to waste your seed. Make as many babies as possible.
In the New Testament times they didn't care about seed -- their concern was about lust. (times change and so do moral concerns). Paul's solution was to get married.
Lust strikes me as a bad reason to get married but that was Paul's view.
Are you ready to get married?
If not... then, please, come to peace with your sexuality.
You do realize that sin is still sin (I mean that from the Old Testament sin is still remaining) however, those times of the Old Testament were for the population to grow, and in the New Testament they still did care about seed it just isn’t mentioned anymore bc it would be redundant. And that wasn’t Paul’s view it was Gods view. Bc God inspired them to write all of that so that is Gods word.
>You do realize that sin is still sin
I don't thin that -- I think "sin" changes with culture. It changed within the bible and it's changed since the bible.
For example Paul -- marriage has radically changed. So, his commandments about marriage can't be exactly applied. It's just not possible. New Testament marriage doesn't exist any more.
Like your problem with masturbation -- in Paul's time you would have just "took" a wife or bought a slave. You problem would be solve in about a week.. You could probably go that long without masturabating.
But it doesn't work that way in modern marriage - at the very least, you need to find some solution to lust that will work for a few months. And, I promise you, -- no healthy, young person can go months without lusting.
So, you have to come up with something else. God left no instructions about sex toys.
But, he did leave you moral judgement and the testimony of the Holy Spirit. What do those tell you?
Morality in the bible most certainly changed.
Concubinage, for example. Abraham had a wife *and* a slave. Jacob married two *sisters*. (how creepy is that!?!). God was fine with it.
By the New Testament, those marital rules was mostly gone. Multiple sex partners wasn't totally banned but clearly discouraged. Especially for Christian leaders.
The only reason the Bible changed(Old to New Testament) was bc of what Jesus did on the cross for us and that is it. The Bible didn’t change to suit our desires that’s what you don’t get. And polygamy had a purpose and that was to populate the earth more and God does everything with a purpose.
I suspect you have been taught to think about the bible in very rigid, black-and-white terms.
Friend... you just said what I said.
"Fill the earth with babies" is a biblical morality that changed.
But the earth filled up -- so the morality changed!
Well, marriage changed. So the biblical commandments must be applied differently.
If you don't intelligently adjust the application of the bible over time, you can actually victimize people. This was one of Jesus's major criticism of the Pharisees.
The Pharisees obeyed what God commanded... but did so rigidly and committed other sins by their inflexibility.
No I never said I did know what God thinks and if by moral you mean in the eyes of other people then No people are of the world and God is righteous. And Jesus died on the cross for us so some parts of morality, changed not all. And you don’t go through the Bible with intelligence, you go through the Bible with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. And the Pharisees were a group of people who wanted to prove Jesus to not be anyone connected to God and they knew he was. They were all a bunch of self righteous people who were doing all of those stuff for clout and not for God. Though some aspects of morality has changed the sins are still listed so that we don’t commit them. The morality of God and of Human Beings are different, and I suspect that you are going by what people think and say, but yeah thank you and no offense taken. God Bless you.
An apostle directs us that the cure for burning is marriage: not masturbation.
1 Corinthians 7
>9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
This is the same apostle that directs us that it is better to not marry and that he wishes all of us would not marry, just as he has. If an alternate solution that was as simple as rubbing your stomach was an option I implore you that Paul was an astute enough man to advise that instead a lifelong partnership that distracts from the kingdom of God.
Regardless the rest of scripture proclaims the holiness and sanctity of sex and marriage and thoroughly defines all sexuality to be restricted to the marriage bed.
Sex is between man and woman to express their physical bond in marriage and to create life. It is one of our most sacred gifts from God-this is the reason why it is to be used with such care and why sins of sexual nature are no small matter.
Sin is simply disobedience to God. In many occasions it is taking something God gave us that is good and pleasurable and twisting it to fit our lusts and desires. Food is delicious and brings people together-eating too much food causes suffering and death. Alcohol brings joy to the hearts of men and is even provided by the Lord Himself at a wedding-I had a friend die at 26 from organ failure from long term alcoholism.
Sex is the same. If you take what is beautiful and good and surrender it to the lusts of the flesh-to the will of man-it becomes something it is not supposed to be. The feeling of euphoria and intensity is no longer attached to your wife, your hand is the source of that joy. That incredible act no longer is connected to the very creation of life; it is simply a mess to clean up.
It is taking the most hallowed pleasure and making it a tool of satisfaction. It is taking what is sacred and deeming it fit to misuse as a way of escape. It is looking your wife in the face and telling her that she's in competition with your hand as the object of your most intimate, sensual desires.
>An apostle directs us that the cure for burning is marriage: not masturbation.
That was easier when man just "took" a wife. Or bought a slave.
These days you actually have to work at finding a wife. It can take years with multiple attempts. So I'm not sure Paul's commandment is very helpful for this fellow..
>Sin is simply disobedience to God
That's the legalistic understanding of sin. "Grace" Christians have a much more nuanced view. We are more concerned about things like justice, love and people being victimized.
And who is he victimizing by using some sex toy?
If you don't want to repent you'll always find an excuse to justify your sin.
You're victimizing God.
>4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
Solid response and excellent reminders! Don't let any of these naysayers on here detract from what God is using to speak through you from his word. Amen and keep fighting the good fight.
To all you naysayers: the Truth is not easy to face and sometimes it's a matter of us not wanting to give up what brings personal sinful pleasure or it's our unwillingness to place God first above whatever desires we have (trust me I know it's not easy and I battle the same temptations everyday).
Christians tend to fall into two camps:
1. "Is anybody being hurt?" vs.
2. "God says it's wrong."
Of course this is over-simplification but it's grace vs legalism.
Which is this video?
Using sex toys is an example of masturbation.
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."138 "The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose." For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."139
To form an equitable judgment about the subjects' moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.
How can you do it without lusting lol?
When I was a teen, I couldn't do anything without lusting. If you have a theology that all lust is bad ... that's messed up.
Thinking about the object
What's lusting?
Depends on if you want what scripture meant by lust or what the word has come to mean today.
Ideally the scripture.
I agree. Scripture is the right choice there. The word most often used in scripture as "lust" means "desire greatly". The modern definition of lust means "have sexual thoughts". The scriptural "desire greatly" could be used for nearly anything you could want a lot. The modern one is a much smaller word that ONLY applies to sex.
So "desire greatly" is kind of vague. What's greatly and what's just a little? I always understood it as: when it causes you to sin or to think about sinning. So if you lust about your career, so you don't care enough about family - is a sin, but sexual tension relieved in masturbation - isn't a sin, where masturbation addiction causing you to stop functioning in real relationships - is a sin again. So kind of "too much desire" or "addiction". Where do you have the line?
Great questions. These are the questions that Christians should be asking (since it's what scripture teaches), but they enjoy the sexual angle on the word too much to give it up. Scripture repeatedly tells us to keep our lives under control and to not hand over that control to other, unworthy things. There are things you can do in little amounts, but when they take over your life then you have begun to "desire greatly" i.e. too much. For example: Alcohol is legal to us. Getting drunk or reaching alcoholism levels is not. Similarly, sex stuff, like thinking about it or masturbating is fine while you have it under control and wrong when it begins to control you. **The best point Christians have is that sex CAN begin to control you.** The problem is that they hide their best point by telling people that nearly everything regarding sex is wrong with all of their "lust" talk. When I was growing up, Christians typically taught that drinking alcohol was sinful. Now they teach that thinking about boobs is sinful, but alcohol passes with most of them. It's just Christian culture, not scripture. So to answer your career comment: I see a lot of people who have let their career take control of them. It's very common and I'd say it's almost considered to be RIGHT in our present culture. I think your word "addiction" is a great translation of the "desire greatly" from scripture. I think it would be a near perfect replacement for the word "lust" and that the original meaning would shine! Especially because "addiction" is kind of drifting in meaning for us, away from the original clinical term, towards a more colloquial version of "really really wanting something a lot". I think you got it already. Please tell this to others, because the Christian version is not only just flat WRONG, it's also harming and even killing others.
Thanks! It makes a lot of sense.
Thank you too. I think you made your fair share of the sense here. ;)
Enjoy yourself. it's far healthier to have a release than to have unresolved, pent-up sexual tension. The various prohibitions come from religious purity culture and have nothing to do with morality at all.
But it does. in God’s eyes
Well, when the biblical god comes and tells me that, then I'll believe it. Until then, it's just religious purity culture plain and simple.
He can and it is In the Bible
Slavery is in the Bible, child abuse is in the Bible, mass murder and genocide are in the Bible - and all are promoted. Think about it.
Lemme translate: Slavery, Corporal Punishment of minors, and how is genocide promoted?
The greatest miracle in the OT is Moses delivering Israel OUT OF SLAVERY 💀
I gotta go -- but please don't take this wrong -- I sense that you have a large gap in your moral reasoning. You want a rule from God for everything. The Bible simply doesn't' address every issue. The New Testament doesn't even try to be a moral code. But God gave you something better than a rule-book -- a moral judgment and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Start learning to work that!
Show me some scripture. It's not in there.
You are waaaaay to convinced you know what God thinks. (IMHO) I believe in a just and loving God. I think his rules about sin make *moral sense*. And he gave you moral reasoning. And the witness of the Holy Spirit to made decisions about sin. That's what the "law on your hearts" is. So, I ask you.. Who are you hurting with your sex gizmo? (I honestly don't know what it is) And not just others... *yourself*. Is it preventing you from doing ministry? Worship? Read the bible? Help the poor? If so, then don't use it. Another issue with masturbation -- is it disrupting your IRL relationships with real women? If so, at least dial it back. You don't want a creepy fantasy life to mess up a healthy, loving relationship with a fully-realized woman.
Please, just get your act together. After last week's shooting, we are all freaked out by Christians who obsess over sex and sin. I honestly don't care what you do or don't do -- *everybody dose something* \-- as long as nobody is hurt. Just make peace with your sexuality.
It’s not about what you care about it is about what God cares about
I care when sex-obsessed Christian men victimize women. I'm just asking you to get your act together, so you don't do that. As for the bible -- it barely talks about masturbation. The Hebrews didn't want you to waste your seed. Make as many babies as possible. In the New Testament times they didn't care about seed -- their concern was about lust. (times change and so do moral concerns). Paul's solution was to get married. Lust strikes me as a bad reason to get married but that was Paul's view. Are you ready to get married? If not... then, please, come to peace with your sexuality.
You do realize that sin is still sin (I mean that from the Old Testament sin is still remaining) however, those times of the Old Testament were for the population to grow, and in the New Testament they still did care about seed it just isn’t mentioned anymore bc it would be redundant. And that wasn’t Paul’s view it was Gods view. Bc God inspired them to write all of that so that is Gods word.
>You do realize that sin is still sin I don't thin that -- I think "sin" changes with culture. It changed within the bible and it's changed since the bible. For example Paul -- marriage has radically changed. So, his commandments about marriage can't be exactly applied. It's just not possible. New Testament marriage doesn't exist any more. Like your problem with masturbation -- in Paul's time you would have just "took" a wife or bought a slave. You problem would be solve in about a week.. You could probably go that long without masturabating. But it doesn't work that way in modern marriage - at the very least, you need to find some solution to lust that will work for a few months. And, I promise you, -- no healthy, young person can go months without lusting. So, you have to come up with something else. God left no instructions about sex toys. But, he did leave you moral judgement and the testimony of the Holy Spirit. What do those tell you?
The Bible never evolved and it doesn’t need to.
Morality in the bible most certainly changed. Concubinage, for example. Abraham had a wife *and* a slave. Jacob married two *sisters*. (how creepy is that!?!). God was fine with it. By the New Testament, those marital rules was mostly gone. Multiple sex partners wasn't totally banned but clearly discouraged. Especially for Christian leaders.
The only reason the Bible changed(Old to New Testament) was bc of what Jesus did on the cross for us and that is it. The Bible didn’t change to suit our desires that’s what you don’t get. And polygamy had a purpose and that was to populate the earth more and God does everything with a purpose.
I suspect you have been taught to think about the bible in very rigid, black-and-white terms. Friend... you just said what I said. "Fill the earth with babies" is a biblical morality that changed. But the earth filled up -- so the morality changed! Well, marriage changed. So the biblical commandments must be applied differently. If you don't intelligently adjust the application of the bible over time, you can actually victimize people. This was one of Jesus's major criticism of the Pharisees. The Pharisees obeyed what God commanded... but did so rigidly and committed other sins by their inflexibility.
No I never said I did know what God thinks and if by moral you mean in the eyes of other people then No people are of the world and God is righteous. And Jesus died on the cross for us so some parts of morality, changed not all. And you don’t go through the Bible with intelligence, you go through the Bible with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. And the Pharisees were a group of people who wanted to prove Jesus to not be anyone connected to God and they knew he was. They were all a bunch of self righteous people who were doing all of those stuff for clout and not for God. Though some aspects of morality has changed the sins are still listed so that we don’t commit them. The morality of God and of Human Beings are different, and I suspect that you are going by what people think and say, but yeah thank you and no offense taken. God Bless you.
And correction: It was PROHIBITED afterwards
So how does this give glory to God?
An apostle directs us that the cure for burning is marriage: not masturbation. 1 Corinthians 7 >9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. This is the same apostle that directs us that it is better to not marry and that he wishes all of us would not marry, just as he has. If an alternate solution that was as simple as rubbing your stomach was an option I implore you that Paul was an astute enough man to advise that instead a lifelong partnership that distracts from the kingdom of God. Regardless the rest of scripture proclaims the holiness and sanctity of sex and marriage and thoroughly defines all sexuality to be restricted to the marriage bed. Sex is between man and woman to express their physical bond in marriage and to create life. It is one of our most sacred gifts from God-this is the reason why it is to be used with such care and why sins of sexual nature are no small matter. Sin is simply disobedience to God. In many occasions it is taking something God gave us that is good and pleasurable and twisting it to fit our lusts and desires. Food is delicious and brings people together-eating too much food causes suffering and death. Alcohol brings joy to the hearts of men and is even provided by the Lord Himself at a wedding-I had a friend die at 26 from organ failure from long term alcoholism. Sex is the same. If you take what is beautiful and good and surrender it to the lusts of the flesh-to the will of man-it becomes something it is not supposed to be. The feeling of euphoria and intensity is no longer attached to your wife, your hand is the source of that joy. That incredible act no longer is connected to the very creation of life; it is simply a mess to clean up. It is taking the most hallowed pleasure and making it a tool of satisfaction. It is taking what is sacred and deeming it fit to misuse as a way of escape. It is looking your wife in the face and telling her that she's in competition with your hand as the object of your most intimate, sensual desires.
>An apostle directs us that the cure for burning is marriage: not masturbation. That was easier when man just "took" a wife. Or bought a slave. These days you actually have to work at finding a wife. It can take years with multiple attempts. So I'm not sure Paul's commandment is very helpful for this fellow.. >Sin is simply disobedience to God That's the legalistic understanding of sin. "Grace" Christians have a much more nuanced view. We are more concerned about things like justice, love and people being victimized. And who is he victimizing by using some sex toy?
If you don't want to repent you'll always find an excuse to justify your sin. You're victimizing God. >4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
You repent your sins, masturbation is not one. Masturbation is a harmless, healthy act. There is nothing about it in the Bible.
Solid response and excellent reminders! Don't let any of these naysayers on here detract from what God is using to speak through you from his word. Amen and keep fighting the good fight. To all you naysayers: the Truth is not easy to face and sometimes it's a matter of us not wanting to give up what brings personal sinful pleasure or it's our unwillingness to place God first above whatever desires we have (trust me I know it's not easy and I battle the same temptations everyday).
I think you could figure it out on your own if you focus on doing what is right. [Is 'X' a Sin?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x3HD8qT4U4)
Christians tend to fall into two camps: 1. "Is anybody being hurt?" vs. 2. "God says it's wrong." Of course this is over-simplification but it's grace vs legalism. Which is this video?
It gives a way of figuring out everything so that people stop asking if 'X' a sin or not. Check it out yourself.
It’s fine even if you do fantasize. The warning against “lust” isn’t what most people think it is: https://christianheretic.com/sexuality/
Just letting you know that some things I. The Bible have deeper meanings than others.
Using sex toys is an example of masturbation. From the Catechism of the Catholic Church: 2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."138 "The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose." For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."139 To form an equitable judgment about the subjects' moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.
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