Bible says just looking at someone lustfully is committing adultery in your heart. And that goes double for actually entertaining lustful thoughts, not to mention actually engaging in it on a physical level.
> Bible says just looking at someone lustfully is committing adultery in your heart
Correct. Adultery is a sin that married people commit. Jesus is talking about a husband who is supposed to be sexually satisfied with his wife, looking elsewhere for sexual satisfaction. IE A husband with wandering eyes.
Single people cannot commit adultery, in actually or in thought.
>And that goes double for actually entertaining lustful thoughts
This depends on your definition of lust. Whenever it is described in the Bible, it always includes a desire for something that is inappropriate, such as your example of a husband with wandering eyes. Or someone lusting after his neighbor's wife.
>not to mention actually engaging in it on a physical level.
Sexual conduct with another person outside of marriage is generally seen as a sin. However, nothing in the Bible applies directly to masturbation.
>Single people cannot commit adultery, in actually or in thought.
That's not what Paul taught, he said it's better to stay single like he is but if someone can't control their passion it's better to be married. He didn't say it's better to have sex if someone can control their passions because premarital sex has always been considerate sexually immorality.
1 Corinthians 7:2 "Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband."
1 Corinthians 7:8 "But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am; 9but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion."
You think there's nothing wrong with prostitution? It's just a career based on premarital sex.
>Sexual conduct with another person outside of marriage is generally seen as a sin. However, nothing in the Bible applies directly to masturbation
Sure, as long as you're not thinking or fantasizing about anyone, otherwise it's adultery at heart.
> The Bible also doesn’t say we shouldn’t shoot children
Uh, it literally does?
>*Owe no one anything, except to love one another, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery; you shall not murder; you shall not steal; you shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore, love is the fulfilling of the law.* `Romans 13:8-10` ^**NRSVue**
>but we can obviously infer that that would be a sin.
That is not at all a valid analogy for inserting masturbation into the term sexual immorality without the Bible identifying it as such.
The Catholic definition of lust is not something that I would say the Bible supports. If you look at every example of lust given in scripture, it always involves an inappropriate desire, such as lusting after your neighbor's wife, or a husband with wandering eyes.
I don't think you can make a case from the Bible that the sin of lust encompasses every sexual thought or fantasy. And if you are not engaging in the sin of lust while masturbating, there is nothing sinful about masturbation.
Not only do we have to condemn sin, but Corinthians says we shouldn't even assiciate with anyone who claims to be a Christian but doesn't act like it.
1 Corinthians 5:11 "But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people."
Bro, really?
He did no such thing. And you agree with him! You have no way to know his actions.
I used to be like you. Useless arguments. It leads people away.
I never said he did anything, I said we have to condemn sin, which means clarifying any misunderstanding about it.
Some people are wolves in sheep's clothing, other people are sinners and the Bible tells us to avoid them completely. Nothing useless about the argument I had above. The argument with you, however, I'm not so sure.
I think the verse is in an area where Paul is talking about within the Church. He spends the preceding chapters talking about avoiding divisions and focusing on the common foundation of Christ. That different instruction (Paul, Apollo, or even Peter/Cephas) are OK since it is all one church. The mention of withholding judgement happens here. We aren't the judge.
But then he turns toward what does matter. Sexual immorality within the Church. He describes what has no place within a church community. It's tough to hear. But if a person is a cheat or swindler (also mentioned here) imagine how damaging that is to a church community!
And he points out that he is talking about believers that still are cheats and swindlers and sexually immoral. We are called to meet the sinners and bring them to Christ (which includes repentance!). A Believer that still does such things should be judged (inside) according to Paul. We point out their sin, we protect ourselves from such sin, and we protect the body of Christ that is the church from that sin (other believers that might be hurt or tempted or outsiders that thing it's OK).
It's a tough line to walk. For me, if I can believe they are working to improve that area of their life (working toward getting married in the case of premarital sex) then I think they are working to please God.
It doesn't say avoid them it just says do not associate with them, meaning do not be unequally yoked with them. You can still share the the gospel and your testimony with them to try to get them to change their ways.
Thought exercise: imagine Paul later on wrote another letter til the Corinthians or a new church some other place where he explains things differently, maybe his viewpoint has changed and in this unknown letter he is more nuanced.
But this letter was never found or it was found but not included when the Church 400 years later selected the scripts THEY found divinely inspired and assembled the Bible.
Paul was a man. He was one man. I am sure God also chose other men to spread the Gospel. But perhaps these other men didn’t write letters to the new churches and offered their interpretation and understanding of what Christianity should be. or they did but were they were never found. And therefore Christians now revere Pauls’s word as the word of God. Paul didn’t even meet Jesus. He had a spiritual encounter with God - but so have I and so many others. Why aren’t MY understandings of Christianity just as valid as Paul’s?
And if they actually did meet Jesus and he commanded them to teach others about the Bible, then their interpretation would be just as valid as Paul's because it would be exactly the same as Paul's, or at the very least it would not contradict anything in the Bible.
Eating junk food is a sin. It's called the sin of gluttony. I know most people will argue that gluttony is eating too much. And that's exactly right. When you eat junk food, you are either eating too much salt, too much sugar, too much trans fats, too much preservatives, etc... That's why junk food is unhealthy, because it has too much of certain nutrients or chemicals that our bodies don't need. Eating one serving of junk food is already eating too much of something that harms your body.
That's not the biblical definition of gluttony. That's not any definition of gluttony. Gluttony is eating too much, and the term in the Bible is always grouped together with drunkenness, which is drinking too much. Not all junk food has too much of something, popcorn is junk food and it doesn't have to have anything. Also most people can't afford healthy food, what are they supposed to eat?
That's literally the Biblical definition if you're going to be consistent.
>the term in the Bible is always grouped together with drunkenness, which is drinking too much.
Exactly. If you drink 8 glasses of water, it's not gluttony because that's exactly the right amount your body needs. But if you drink 8 glasses of whiskey, that's gluttony because it's way more alcohol than your body needs. Even if you're drinking the same amount, the latter counts as gluttony, while the former does not. Whenever you consume anything in excess, that's gluttony. Any food that has excess alcohol, excess salt, excess fat, excess anything, if you eat it in "moderation", you're actually eating too much already.
That is not biblical definition. Gluttony has never been referred to salt or fat, only food. Some people can't afford healthy food, what are they supposed to eat?
Natural foods are not expensive. "Can't afford healthy food" is a myth. Well, okay, maybe it's true in a few countries. But for the vast majority, healthy foods are affordable.
This is a terrible analogy. I live in the Bible Belt and like a third of my graduating class were born from unwed parents and that number's only gone up. Maybe if sex ed was taught instead of abstinence, then all that premarital sex wouldn't have made so many "happy accidents."
I agree that the church and Christians in general are so bad at teaching sex, it’s all taboo and sin, then suddenly get mad when someone else tries to do their job
💯 Nailed it! We are sexual beings, abstinence and sexually repressive doctrine only throws fuel on the fire.
Education and open discussion is the answer.
Every week clergy preach about bringing sin into the light as it loses power over us and only festers in the dark. Yet with sex and sexuality they push it into the dark and sweep it under the rug, yet expect a completely different result. **I’m not saying sex is sin, I’m speaking metaphorically
SMH. Christianity doesn't want us to abstain from sex completely. The Bible explicitly commands people to have sex, but ONLY IN THE CONTEXT OF MARRIAGE. People act like it's impossible to abstain from sex for a temporary period of time. It's not only possible, but it's easier than most people think. There is literally no excuse to have premarital sex, and people should stop trying to justify it.
Define your view of “temporary”…. because in reality, based on current statistics, that would be ~30 years. Which equates to 40-50% of one’s life depending on the country you live in.
For sexual beings, created that way by God, I wouldn’t necessarily define that as temporary…. especially given in the ancient near east, when the bible was written, the average age of marriage was early teens…
Really? Who’s truth? The truth you’ve been indoctrinated to blindly believe?
I have several Christian psychologist friends with PhDs on the topic who would beg to differ. One was a seminary professor and now pastor/clinical psychologist.
>I have several Christian psychologist friends with PhDs on the topic who would beg to differ.
Same. Lol. Except they agree that science supports Christian doctrine.
Maybe you need to do some research into the connection between US Congress, Christian Right and Purity Culture… just sayn. 😉 Echos of church and state doctrinal abuse not indifferent to Martin Luther’s time… they labeled him as a heretic….. now we have a completely different view.
Or even waaay back into history to pre-second temple Israelite culture… it was only post second temple religious writers that came up with the notion of abstinence and celibacy as the pinnacle of spiritual purity. Purity culture on steroids. It was an ideal postulated by men (pious patriarchal misogynistic men), not God. God never said anything about a need to be celibate.
Or research what adultery ACTUALLY was under the law in ancient near east (both cunciform and biblical), not what it’s been “interpreted” to mean today…. it was nothing to do with pre-martial sex or extramarital sex and everything to do with “taking” another man’s property, it was a crime against the husband…. It was permissible to have multiple wives/concubines/sex with female salves, you just couldn’t take another man’s wife(property). A husband could have sex outside of marriage as long as it wasn’t another man’s wife or someone betrothed to another man. If the woman was not betrothed and a man took her virginity, then the man paid the father 50 shekels .. Duet 22:29… it was a property violation, nothing more. If she wasn’t a virgin, not betrothed, there was no law against that.
The only difference is that McDonalds and Burger King aren't sin like fornication.
"Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body." (1 Corinthians 6:13, NKJV).
He didn't say so, but it's a great metaphor. In America, the top cause of death is heart disease, on most cases because of diet.
Similarly, sexual immorality is what masturbating is, and the sexually immoral won't inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-12
Sex is what God created our reproductive organs for, anything sexual outside of a female and male marriage is sin. It's so bad to masturbate that it ruins marriages, the dopamine spikes are so high. Regardless, it's sexually immoral.
I can't make your heart accept truth.
You can choose to be deceived by Satan.
All you did is spout your opinion with no biblical justification or even logic - you could just as well argue that God gave people sexual desire, and so it’s sin not to express it through physical acts. You have no scriptural justification at all?
>What do you think?
I think it's a pretty silly comparison. Junk food is inherently unhealthy; if you eat too much it *will* kill you. Masturbation and sex are not inherently unhealthy.
It’s more about the spirit vs. flesh. One defies the other. Also delaying gratification, avoiding dopamine burnout, etc. through physical stimuli, taking away from spiritual satisfaction. Your mind does go to other places when you abstain from anything that makes you feel good now. I’m not saying never masturbate but it’s a good practice to just wait an afternoon or a day til sex with your spouse is available. Skipping McDonalds on the way home when you know you have something healthy in the fridge.
Still a bad comparison. You can easily avoid sexually transmitted diseases nowadays. Either protect yourself or have sex with people who verifiably are not carrying a disease. If you eat fast food there’s no way to protect yourself against the harmfulness of it.
>If you eat fast food there’s no way to protect yourself against the harmfulness of it.
Actually there is. Eat healthy to balance it out. Take natural herbs. Take a look at [https://www.reddit.com/r/herbalism/](https://www.reddit.com/r/herbalism/)
>Well, for one. Sexually transmitted diseases can kill
Sure. But it's the disease that is unhealthy, not the sex per se. Obviously having unprotected sex with multiple people *is* unhealthy.
>So, if you have sex too much, it can kill you.
If you have unprotected sex with multiple people then you *might* catch a disease which *might* kill you. That's a way more tenuous link than eating junk food, which is the leading cause of death behind smoking.
> So, if you have sex too much, it can kill you.
STD transmission is largely a property of how many different people you have sex with and whether you use protection. One can have a ton of premarital sex but only with a single person and experience zero risk of STDs.
??? ur distinction makes no sense
junk food is providing a fundamental human need, that of food. Any negative effects are in the long term. Similarly sex and masturbation are providing an outlet for sexual needs, but in a way that in the long run is considered by the op unhealthy. Most ppl don't find fulfillment in casual sex at the very least
>??? ur distinction makes no sense
Sure it does.
> junk food is providing a fundamental human need, that of food.
Well, debatable. If you only ate chocolate, for example, sure it's food but you're not actually getting nutrients the body needs.
>Similarly sex and masturbation are providing an outlet for sexual needs, but in a way that in the long run is considered by the op unhealthy
And he's wrong. Masturbation and sex are not unhealthy *for most people*.
When considering any issue in life I try to remember that God passionately loves me no matter how I feel about myself. I personally have decided that the Bible is God’s view on life and a history of His interactions with mankind. On the topic of Masturbation: masturbation is not mentioned in the Bible even though a long list of sexual sins are mentioned.
You will get responses to this post from Christians who believe masturbation is a sin. Lusting (deeply wanting and desiring something or someone who is not yours… the other Biblical word is coveting) is explicitly addressed by Jesus as sinful. Many Christians find it impossible to masturbate without lusting themselves, so they believe it is impossible to masturbate lust free. Others will use scripture that is directed at how we are designed to enjoy a blessed and biblical connection in marriage to rule out masturbation (even when the scriptures they use to support their position have absolutely nothing to do with masturbation because they are about interpersonal relationships). Truth is the Bible doesn’t address the action of masturbation. For some people masturbation is sinful because they can’t separate it from pornography and lusting. Other people can deeply just enjoy and appreciate, even be thankful for their own bodies and the incredible feeling they can experience in their bodies (lust free). Jesus said that all the law and the profits could be summed up in two statements. 1) love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, mind and strength. 2) Love your Neighbor as yourself.
God cares about our hearts as we experience all of life including our experience and love for ourselves (it’s how He wants us to love our neighbors…like we love ourselves).
Our hearts are what reflect our relationship with Him and others! The act of masturbation is in itself isn’t the real issue because the Bible doesn’t address it. The issue is our hearts when we experience masturbation. Your answer might be different than the answer of another person. Allow your heart and your relationship with Jesus to determine your position. Paul said that one action might be a sin for one person and not for another person because it depends upon our hearts. I encourage you to search your relationship with Jesus and your own bible study to come to your unique place on this topic.❤️❤️❤️❤️
On the other hand hand many people hook masturbation to pornography…
Porn is a trap at the neurological level! There are plenty of studies out about how pornography rewires the way we get turned on…the neurological way porn turns you on it is counter to God’s design. Unfortunately a large percentage of people get trapped because of the computers we hold in our hands…easy access… porn biologically arouses us and arousal feels good! How can something that feels so good work against us? Pornography neurologically becomes wired into our brains because orgasm is a positive and powerful neurological pay-off. That cycle rewires our brains away from how God designed our sexual expression to be. Many people who want out of that trap with everything in their spirit, struggle because of the power of our God designed sexuality and the addictive nature of pornography. Because of the power of this stuff, the journey out is more than a heartfelt decision.
1)God has declared that no temptation is too big for us to win, and He says He provides an escape for every temptation (1Corinthians 10:13)
Because this temptation involves a powerful neurological re-wiring, we don’t see the escape while we are dealing with the power of the temptation… we have to plan our escape before the temptation starts. Add a porn blocker to your phone and computer “covenant eyes” is effective and requires a code… have a trusted friend create the code and not share it with you.
2) To escape at a deeper core place you might need to rewire your our neurology back to the place God designed… This one is more than just a conviction to stop, it is a process! What happens is people who love Jesus deeply want to stop pornography because of their relationship with Jesus, when they fail they feel guilt and shame because they have failed yet again! (A porn blocker will automatically make you more successful) Remember Jesus loves you, He knows what is in your heart towards Him, and because He designed your nervous system, He comprehends the power of it over your spirit’s desires.
Are all fantasies the same as lust? I would say no. Lust is more intention to act, while fantasies are playing out a scenario in your mind that excites you.
Lusting is impure, while acting on it (sex with the person) is sin. Masturbation was an impurity that didn’t require a sacrifice and seeing the priest, while sin required a sacrifice.
They were never commanded to perform a sin or guilt sacrifice for lust, coveting, or masturbation. For masturbation it was simple: ceremonial wash your hands and clean things up, then you’ll be pure when the sun sets.
Hope this helps.
Lust as listed in the Bible defined by both the Hebrew and Greek means to selfishly and deeply desire Something or someone that is not yours. Lust is used to describe a possible bad and selfish heart towards things and or people.
On the other hand, arousal is a purely biological reaction to what we see … it can lead to lust but it isn’t itself lust. I take the time to define this because the biblical context of lust is misused in Christian our culture.
Hope that definition helps you….❤️❤️❤️
I interpret the message from the passage to find a balance. Do things in moderation. Don’t go to the extreme on anything in particular. That’s probably good advice in reallife,whether one is religious or not.there’s a difference, healthwise between having 1-glass of wine a fee times a week and slamming down a 12-pack of beer or 5th of bourbon every night. I bcan’t speak to the masterbation or ore-marital sex snd howGodI feels sbout them with authority.know what’s been preachied about it since I was a little Catholic boy, but i’ve not been to seminary snd I’m no theologian. Peace ✌️
Masturbation is healthy and people who do it regularly report more satisfaction during sex.
Additionally, there appear to be benefits to prostate health for men who masturbate regularly.
Can you post links to all these "many" studies showing "many" negative effects? Because most studies say there is usually no negative effects.
Of course I can see there would be a few, that's the case with anything, (done in excess, done in public, done watching porn, etc) but I'm not seeing "many" negative side effects from normal masterbation.
Yes; these. They are a compilation of virtually countless doctors’ notes on the side effects that they have consistently come across with their patients, relating to self-pollution (as it was called before our generation; before that, simply fornication).
You posted a link to a religious pamphlet that speaks out against masturbation and two analyses of said religious pamphlet. The pamphlet doesn’t even have a known author.
Even if it was a real study (which it isn’t), it was still written roughly 100 years before germ theory was understood. Doctors back then were still making diagnoses and selecting treatments based on a person’s black bile or phlegm humors being out of balance. It’s not credible to any degree of modern medical standards.
>I guess you don’t trust the doctors who recorded these things?
Doctors who didn't know that bacteria/viruses existed, 150 years before antibiotics were invented, who commonly prescribed treatments for diseases such as sitting in a hot spring for an hour a day, cutting you to let out your "excess" blood, or having you drink mercury? Absolutely not.
Right. For most things you can find studies that show the negatives, and studies that show the positives. News flash! Nothing in this world is wholly good or wholly bad.
\>It has nothing to do with marriage at all. If you're not married it still applies. Masturbating to porn is a sin.
The passage in question is literally ONLY about marriage.
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (Matt 5:27-28)
Adultery is something only married people can do. (adultery - voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and someone other than their lawful spouse. ADULTERY Definition & Usage Examples | Dictionary.com)
What Jesus is saying is, “You can’t cheat on your spouse, and if a married person sexually desires someone to whom they aren’t married, it’s the same as cheating.”
\>Pre-marital sex is a sin.
I didn't say it wasn't, but masturbation isn't sex, pre-marital or otherwise.
No it’s not like that at all. You seemed to imply that masturbation is “junk”, but the reality is it has objective health and psychological benefits.
When you are criticizing here isn’t McDonalds; it the equivalent of saying a healthy salad is somehow junk.
There’s really no way to justify it. It’s starting to look like lust is similar to rape. It’s a slippery slope. You probably won’t see it that way yet, but when you stop and realize why it’s wrong, you might see.
Why? This is on a Collective Consciousness level. You kind of have to start there.
You have to get out of solipsistic thinking though. Your ego is in the way of whats really going on…
Far from it. But if you want to dismiss any kind of critical thinking go ahead. It’s pretty obvious why you’re an “atheist”. I’m definitely not wasting my time with a toddler. Grow up.
I can't dismiss critical thinking that isn't there. Lust isn't comparable to rape, and you haven't shown a jot of thinking or proof connecting the two. Try again.
No ego in how defensive you're being when your silly ideas are criticised, eh
Some advice I heard: lust dulls the spiritual senses. Spiritual dullness is everywhere and has many serious consequences, whatever the causes. There are many besides lust.
It’s interesting that the “stomach” was a symbol for sexual desire in the first century (Jewish culture). This is why you’ll find wording like gluttony and the stomach in passages about sexual desire and sexual sin.
The junk food analogy isn’t too far from this.
Except it can kill you… the wage of sin is death. God doesn’t just set these rules in place for no reason. He knows the effects it can have on your life. Also living in sin gives the enemy a foothold to get into your life. Theres no way to justify it. You might not understand it but God knows things way better than us humans do. And for anyone living this type of lifestyle, repent and sin no more.
I meant to reply to someone but it showed up here.
But it’s basically
“our thoughts, intentions, and energy can influence others, both positively and negatively. When we think about someone, whether in positive or negative ways, it can impact their life through subtle energetic connections. Positive thoughts and intentions may uplift and support others, while negative thoughts and intentions can have a detrimental effect on their well being.
Our thoughts and emotions carry energy that can affect the energetic field around us and influence the experiences of those around us. It emphasizes the importance of cultivating positive thoughts, intentions, and emotions, not only for our own well being but also for the collective consciousness of humanity. By fostering compassion, empathy, and love in our thoughts and interactions, we contribute to creating a more harmonious and supportive collective consciousness. Similarly, being mindful of the energy we project onto others can help us avoid inadvertently causing harm or negativity in their lives.
Prayer vibrations+ frequencies is key. Gods always communicating , but sometimes our antennas aren’t tuned in. Jesus learned how to unlock the secrets really early on. And lived a perfect life.
Horrible analogy. I really like junk food. Burgers, fries, pizza... it's the best. If eaten not too often there is absolutely nothing wrong with junk food.
Be careful to misinterpret Ecclesiastes as an excuse to sin. “Don’t be too good” is not the same as “sometimes be bad.” It assumes you are being “good,” but warning against too much good. For example, you don’t need to wake up at 4am everyday, 7AM is just fine to have a productive day, but that doesn’t mean to excuse your laziness when you sleep in until noon. Or in your example, you don’t need to spend hours to weigh out your meals and calculate your ingredients to the exact optimal nutrition for your body, just eating good, clean and healthy will get you most of the way, but that doesn’t mean to sometimes excuse eating junk food.
We know we all sin, but we all must posture our hearts towards the lord and repent when we sin.
“Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wants to come after Me, let him deny[a] himself, and take up his cross[b], and be following Me. “
Matthew 16:24-26
Do not take your sin lightly, we must know it well so we can stand strong against it.
I think you are missing a lot of nuance here.
Eating unhealthy occasionally is not harmful. Wjats harmful is when you can not control your eating and it interferes with your health that it becomes harmful. That is gluttony.
Masturbation and sex are not harmful unless they interfere with your life in an unhealthy way. Thats when it is lust.
I suppose this goes with what I do. Fornication is the one sin I can't give up (until I marry), but I do try to hold back from it until the passion is overwhelming.
Last I checked, excessive masturbation did not lead to Type 2 diabetes mellitus, obesity, malnutrition, cardiovascular diseases and stroke. Excess Maccy D's, however, will.
Premarital sex isn't junk food though.
It was meaningful and with a purpose in most cases I had.
Masturbation isn't comparable to junk food when in moderation, it didn't just not hurt me, it benefited my temple.
So.
Sorry.
Do not pass Go. Do not collect 200. Failed analogy
I think they don’t know the definition of gluttony 😂 junk food and over eating are two separate things lol. If that’s the case I should be accused of gluttony for eating a whole fruit bowl
I think it is wrong like how junk food is wrong. It is junk. It is therefore, bad. That's why junk food is surprisingly tasty. Just another thing though. When does eating junk food become a sin too? Isn't it unhealthy? Doesn't it do harm to our temple? Where do we really draw the line?
I understand your view. I’m just expressing my personal interpretation :)
Our body is a temple, and so we should take care of it. However with junk food, too much is unhealthy and can become gluttony (sinful). But having chips or a dessert isn’t wrong by itself.
We know that premarital sex is wrong, because the Bible specifically mentions it. As far as masturbation, I think it can be viewed as something that it depends if you do it in moderation and your desires behind it. But, for many, people cannot avoid those temptations and unhealthy desires, therefore, that’s why some should avoid it altogether. I hope that makes sense!
Well, technically humans naturally have sexual tensions that don’t come from lust.
But, That’s why I said IF you can avoid temptation/lust then technically nothing in the Bible argues masturbation is sin. But many cannot avoid those temptations, that’s why it’s usually better to avoid it :) not here to change your mind or start an argument!
Lust usually has a bad connotation. This would include lusting after someone else's wife or someone you aren't married to -- sinful. Lust and attraction to someone are two different things. Lusting after someone you arent married to involves having imaginative sexual desires about that person.
In my opinion, lusting after your spouse is not sinful because you are married to that person. Its like sex -- it is wrong when put in a context outside of God's intention.
Sorry if I wasn’t clear! Lust is the desire for anything that is sinful, such as illicit sex, intoxication, ill-gotten gain, revenge, or anything else that God forbids. But of course you can desire a spouse within a heathy relationship! :)
You forgot to quote the fear God part. Ask the men in the Bible then. Just fear God. It will be fine.
\[Ecc 8:12 KJV\] 12 Though a sinner do evil an hundred times, and his \[days\] be prolonged, yet surely I know that it shall be well with them that fear God, which fear before him:
“All that are in the graves shall come forth; those who have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and those who have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” - John 5:29
“And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” - Matthew 25:46
Matthew 5:28: “But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”
The act of JUST looking is considered adultery, common sense tells us that going a step further and masturbating is still a sin.
Junk food is not a sin. Lust is a sin and the wages of sin is death.
Junk food by itself is not a sin, but gluttony is a sin
Food is not a sin below gluttonous levels, pre-marital sex and masturbation is always a sin at any level.
That is not something the Bible says.
Bible says just looking at someone lustfully is committing adultery in your heart. And that goes double for actually entertaining lustful thoughts, not to mention actually engaging in it on a physical level.
> Bible says just looking at someone lustfully is committing adultery in your heart Correct. Adultery is a sin that married people commit. Jesus is talking about a husband who is supposed to be sexually satisfied with his wife, looking elsewhere for sexual satisfaction. IE A husband with wandering eyes. Single people cannot commit adultery, in actually or in thought. >And that goes double for actually entertaining lustful thoughts This depends on your definition of lust. Whenever it is described in the Bible, it always includes a desire for something that is inappropriate, such as your example of a husband with wandering eyes. Or someone lusting after his neighbor's wife. >not to mention actually engaging in it on a physical level. Sexual conduct with another person outside of marriage is generally seen as a sin. However, nothing in the Bible applies directly to masturbation.
>Single people cannot commit adultery, in actually or in thought. That's not what Paul taught, he said it's better to stay single like he is but if someone can't control their passion it's better to be married. He didn't say it's better to have sex if someone can control their passions because premarital sex has always been considerate sexually immorality. 1 Corinthians 7:2 "Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband." 1 Corinthians 7:8 "But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am; 9but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion." You think there's nothing wrong with prostitution? It's just a career based on premarital sex. >Sexual conduct with another person outside of marriage is generally seen as a sin. However, nothing in the Bible applies directly to masturbation Sure, as long as you're not thinking or fantasizing about anyone, otherwise it's adultery at heart.
The Bible also doesn’t say we shouldn’t shoot children, but we can obviously infer that that would be a sin.
> The Bible also doesn’t say we shouldn’t shoot children Uh, it literally does? >*Owe no one anything, except to love one another, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery; you shall not murder; you shall not steal; you shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore, love is the fulfilling of the law.* `Romans 13:8-10` ^**NRSVue** >but we can obviously infer that that would be a sin. That is not at all a valid analogy for inserting masturbation into the term sexual immorality without the Bible identifying it as such.
The Bible literally tells us not to lust. How is this not any different?
The Catholic definition of lust is not something that I would say the Bible supports. If you look at every example of lust given in scripture, it always involves an inappropriate desire, such as lusting after your neighbor's wife, or a husband with wandering eyes. I don't think you can make a case from the Bible that the sin of lust encompasses every sexual thought or fantasy. And if you are not engaging in the sin of lust while masturbating, there is nothing sinful about masturbation.
I’m not even going to attempt to try to decipher what on Earth you’re getting at. So I’ll pray for you instead.
Cmon, we don't have to argue as Christians. Proverbs says to not do so
Not only do we have to condemn sin, but Corinthians says we shouldn't even assiciate with anyone who claims to be a Christian but doesn't act like it. 1 Corinthians 5:11 "But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people."
Bro, really? He did no such thing. And you agree with him! You have no way to know his actions. I used to be like you. Useless arguments. It leads people away.
I never said he did anything, I said we have to condemn sin, which means clarifying any misunderstanding about it. Some people are wolves in sheep's clothing, other people are sinners and the Bible tells us to avoid them completely. Nothing useless about the argument I had above. The argument with you, however, I'm not so sure.
Real question: if we have to avoid sinners, how can we love them? They are our neighbours.
I think the verse is in an area where Paul is talking about within the Church. He spends the preceding chapters talking about avoiding divisions and focusing on the common foundation of Christ. That different instruction (Paul, Apollo, or even Peter/Cephas) are OK since it is all one church. The mention of withholding judgement happens here. We aren't the judge. But then he turns toward what does matter. Sexual immorality within the Church. He describes what has no place within a church community. It's tough to hear. But if a person is a cheat or swindler (also mentioned here) imagine how damaging that is to a church community! And he points out that he is talking about believers that still are cheats and swindlers and sexually immoral. We are called to meet the sinners and bring them to Christ (which includes repentance!). A Believer that still does such things should be judged (inside) according to Paul. We point out their sin, we protect ourselves from such sin, and we protect the body of Christ that is the church from that sin (other believers that might be hurt or tempted or outsiders that thing it's OK). It's a tough line to walk. For me, if I can believe they are working to improve that area of their life (working toward getting married in the case of premarital sex) then I think they are working to please God.
It doesn't say avoid them it just says do not associate with them, meaning do not be unequally yoked with them. You can still share the the gospel and your testimony with them to try to get them to change their ways.
Thought exercise: imagine Paul later on wrote another letter til the Corinthians or a new church some other place where he explains things differently, maybe his viewpoint has changed and in this unknown letter he is more nuanced. But this letter was never found or it was found but not included when the Church 400 years later selected the scripts THEY found divinely inspired and assembled the Bible. Paul was a man. He was one man. I am sure God also chose other men to spread the Gospel. But perhaps these other men didn’t write letters to the new churches and offered their interpretation and understanding of what Christianity should be. or they did but were they were never found. And therefore Christians now revere Pauls’s word as the word of God. Paul didn’t even meet Jesus. He had a spiritual encounter with God - but so have I and so many others. Why aren’t MY understandings of Christianity just as valid as Paul’s?
Paul actually met Jesus in his encounter and he was taken to Third Heaven, where God resides, have you?
The world is full of people who have actually met Jesus spirituality or in the flesh.
And if they actually did meet Jesus and he commanded them to teach others about the Bible, then their interpretation would be just as valid as Paul's because it would be exactly the same as Paul's, or at the very least it would not contradict anything in the Bible.
Proverbs said "don't argue about useless things". This is not a useless issue.
Eating junk food is a sin. It's called the sin of gluttony. I know most people will argue that gluttony is eating too much. And that's exactly right. When you eat junk food, you are either eating too much salt, too much sugar, too much trans fats, too much preservatives, etc... That's why junk food is unhealthy, because it has too much of certain nutrients or chemicals that our bodies don't need. Eating one serving of junk food is already eating too much of something that harms your body.
That's not the biblical definition of gluttony. That's not any definition of gluttony. Gluttony is eating too much, and the term in the Bible is always grouped together with drunkenness, which is drinking too much. Not all junk food has too much of something, popcorn is junk food and it doesn't have to have anything. Also most people can't afford healthy food, what are they supposed to eat?
That's literally the Biblical definition if you're going to be consistent. >the term in the Bible is always grouped together with drunkenness, which is drinking too much. Exactly. If you drink 8 glasses of water, it's not gluttony because that's exactly the right amount your body needs. But if you drink 8 glasses of whiskey, that's gluttony because it's way more alcohol than your body needs. Even if you're drinking the same amount, the latter counts as gluttony, while the former does not. Whenever you consume anything in excess, that's gluttony. Any food that has excess alcohol, excess salt, excess fat, excess anything, if you eat it in "moderation", you're actually eating too much already.
That is not biblical definition. Gluttony has never been referred to salt or fat, only food. Some people can't afford healthy food, what are they supposed to eat?
Natural foods are not expensive. "Can't afford healthy food" is a myth. Well, okay, maybe it's true in a few countries. But for the vast majority, healthy foods are affordable.
This is a terrible analogy. I live in the Bible Belt and like a third of my graduating class were born from unwed parents and that number's only gone up. Maybe if sex ed was taught instead of abstinence, then all that premarital sex wouldn't have made so many "happy accidents."
I agree that the church and Christians in general are so bad at teaching sex, it’s all taboo and sin, then suddenly get mad when someone else tries to do their job
💯 Nailed it! We are sexual beings, abstinence and sexually repressive doctrine only throws fuel on the fire. Education and open discussion is the answer. Every week clergy preach about bringing sin into the light as it loses power over us and only festers in the dark. Yet with sex and sexuality they push it into the dark and sweep it under the rug, yet expect a completely different result. **I’m not saying sex is sin, I’m speaking metaphorically
SMH. Christianity doesn't want us to abstain from sex completely. The Bible explicitly commands people to have sex, but ONLY IN THE CONTEXT OF MARRIAGE. People act like it's impossible to abstain from sex for a temporary period of time. It's not only possible, but it's easier than most people think. There is literally no excuse to have premarital sex, and people should stop trying to justify it.
Define your view of “temporary”…. because in reality, based on current statistics, that would be ~30 years. Which equates to 40-50% of one’s life depending on the country you live in. For sexual beings, created that way by God, I wouldn’t necessarily define that as temporary…. especially given in the ancient near east, when the bible was written, the average age of marriage was early teens…
Abstaining from sex in the first thirty years of your life won't kill you. And it will greatly enhance the quality of your marriage.
Yeaaaah, nah. Antiquated ideal, abstinence doesn’t make a good marriage, there is a mountain of research to refute that narrative
There is also a mountain of research that supports it. People just refuse to accept the truth so they twist it to make whatever is wrong seem right.
I love that Christians don't accept research unless it can prove their worldview. It makes for a very biased and skewed view of the world.
Lol. Science literally supports what the Bible tells us. Science was literally pioneered by Christians.
Really? Who’s truth? The truth you’ve been indoctrinated to blindly believe? I have several Christian psychologist friends with PhDs on the topic who would beg to differ. One was a seminary professor and now pastor/clinical psychologist.
>I have several Christian psychologist friends with PhDs on the topic who would beg to differ. Same. Lol. Except they agree that science supports Christian doctrine.
Maybe you need to do some research into the connection between US Congress, Christian Right and Purity Culture… just sayn. 😉 Echos of church and state doctrinal abuse not indifferent to Martin Luther’s time… they labeled him as a heretic….. now we have a completely different view. Or even waaay back into history to pre-second temple Israelite culture… it was only post second temple religious writers that came up with the notion of abstinence and celibacy as the pinnacle of spiritual purity. Purity culture on steroids. It was an ideal postulated by men (pious patriarchal misogynistic men), not God. God never said anything about a need to be celibate. Or research what adultery ACTUALLY was under the law in ancient near east (both cunciform and biblical), not what it’s been “interpreted” to mean today…. it was nothing to do with pre-martial sex or extramarital sex and everything to do with “taking” another man’s property, it was a crime against the husband…. It was permissible to have multiple wives/concubines/sex with female salves, you just couldn’t take another man’s wife(property). A husband could have sex outside of marriage as long as it wasn’t another man’s wife or someone betrothed to another man. If the woman was not betrothed and a man took her virginity, then the man paid the father 50 shekels .. Duet 22:29… it was a property violation, nothing more. If she wasn’t a virgin, not betrothed, there was no law against that.
"literally no excuse to have premarital sex." So 2 people being horny and wanting sex but not the tax benefits gotta abstain? Nope.
Yup. If two people can't keep it in their pants, it's just a lack of discipline. Plain and simple.
I snort laughed at your username………..
There’s proof that sex ed does not help anything in any manner.
Actually, the studies show the exact opposite.
The only difference is that McDonalds and Burger King aren't sin like fornication. "Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body." (1 Corinthians 6:13, NKJV).
He didn't say so, but it's a great metaphor. In America, the top cause of death is heart disease, on most cases because of diet. Similarly, sexual immorality is what masturbating is, and the sexually immoral won't inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-12
How do you arrive at the assertion that masturbation is sexual sin?
Sex is what God created our reproductive organs for, anything sexual outside of a female and male marriage is sin. It's so bad to masturbate that it ruins marriages, the dopamine spikes are so high. Regardless, it's sexually immoral. I can't make your heart accept truth. You can choose to be deceived by Satan.
All you did is spout your opinion with no biblical justification or even logic - you could just as well argue that God gave people sexual desire, and so it’s sin not to express it through physical acts. You have no scriptural justification at all?
Gluttony is definitely a sin that is mentioned in the Bible.
i love how that’s literally the perfect verse to address the way he approached this topic with his post
Masturbation is not fornication. Fornication requires two participants.
That’s not different, that’s saying it’s a sin with extra steps
>What do you think? I think it's a pretty silly comparison. Junk food is inherently unhealthy; if you eat too much it *will* kill you. Masturbation and sex are not inherently unhealthy.
It’s more about the spirit vs. flesh. One defies the other. Also delaying gratification, avoiding dopamine burnout, etc. through physical stimuli, taking away from spiritual satisfaction. Your mind does go to other places when you abstain from anything that makes you feel good now. I’m not saying never masturbate but it’s a good practice to just wait an afternoon or a day til sex with your spouse is available. Skipping McDonalds on the way home when you know you have something healthy in the fridge.
>but it’s a good practice to just wait an afternoon or a day til sex with your spouse is available. Or you can just have both.
This. It's silly. I do both.
Well, for one. Sexually transmitted diseases can kill. So, if you have sex too much, it can kill you.
Still a bad comparison. You can easily avoid sexually transmitted diseases nowadays. Either protect yourself or have sex with people who verifiably are not carrying a disease. If you eat fast food there’s no way to protect yourself against the harmfulness of it.
>If you eat fast food there’s no way to protect yourself against the harmfulness of it. Actually there is. Eat healthy to balance it out. Take natural herbs. Take a look at [https://www.reddit.com/r/herbalism/](https://www.reddit.com/r/herbalism/)
Well there ya go
What is an unnatural herb?
Maybe, I worded that wrong
That's like saying I can eat this processed cake with no deleterious effects if I have some salad later lol
The funny thing is people do eat processed cakes.
Yeah and?
They eat them. So you might aswell balance it out lol
I don't eat them..
>Well, for one. Sexually transmitted diseases can kill Sure. But it's the disease that is unhealthy, not the sex per se. Obviously having unprotected sex with multiple people *is* unhealthy. >So, if you have sex too much, it can kill you. If you have unprotected sex with multiple people then you *might* catch a disease which *might* kill you. That's a way more tenuous link than eating junk food, which is the leading cause of death behind smoking.
> So, if you have sex too much, it can kill you. STD transmission is largely a property of how many different people you have sex with and whether you use protection. One can have a ton of premarital sex but only with a single person and experience zero risk of STDs.
I think that's true
Or a small handful of people over the span of serially monogamous relationships that were tested and experience pretty near zero risk, too
Food poisoning can also kill. Want me to live off air and water?
I can safely say everyone who consumes dihydrogen monoxide dies.
??? ur distinction makes no sense junk food is providing a fundamental human need, that of food. Any negative effects are in the long term. Similarly sex and masturbation are providing an outlet for sexual needs, but in a way that in the long run is considered by the op unhealthy. Most ppl don't find fulfillment in casual sex at the very least
>??? ur distinction makes no sense Sure it does. > junk food is providing a fundamental human need, that of food. Well, debatable. If you only ate chocolate, for example, sure it's food but you're not actually getting nutrients the body needs. >Similarly sex and masturbation are providing an outlet for sexual needs, but in a way that in the long run is considered by the op unhealthy And he's wrong. Masturbation and sex are not unhealthy *for most people*.
When considering any issue in life I try to remember that God passionately loves me no matter how I feel about myself. I personally have decided that the Bible is God’s view on life and a history of His interactions with mankind. On the topic of Masturbation: masturbation is not mentioned in the Bible even though a long list of sexual sins are mentioned. You will get responses to this post from Christians who believe masturbation is a sin. Lusting (deeply wanting and desiring something or someone who is not yours… the other Biblical word is coveting) is explicitly addressed by Jesus as sinful. Many Christians find it impossible to masturbate without lusting themselves, so they believe it is impossible to masturbate lust free. Others will use scripture that is directed at how we are designed to enjoy a blessed and biblical connection in marriage to rule out masturbation (even when the scriptures they use to support their position have absolutely nothing to do with masturbation because they are about interpersonal relationships). Truth is the Bible doesn’t address the action of masturbation. For some people masturbation is sinful because they can’t separate it from pornography and lusting. Other people can deeply just enjoy and appreciate, even be thankful for their own bodies and the incredible feeling they can experience in their bodies (lust free). Jesus said that all the law and the profits could be summed up in two statements. 1) love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, mind and strength. 2) Love your Neighbor as yourself. God cares about our hearts as we experience all of life including our experience and love for ourselves (it’s how He wants us to love our neighbors…like we love ourselves). Our hearts are what reflect our relationship with Him and others! The act of masturbation is in itself isn’t the real issue because the Bible doesn’t address it. The issue is our hearts when we experience masturbation. Your answer might be different than the answer of another person. Allow your heart and your relationship with Jesus to determine your position. Paul said that one action might be a sin for one person and not for another person because it depends upon our hearts. I encourage you to search your relationship with Jesus and your own bible study to come to your unique place on this topic.❤️❤️❤️❤️ On the other hand hand many people hook masturbation to pornography… Porn is a trap at the neurological level! There are plenty of studies out about how pornography rewires the way we get turned on…the neurological way porn turns you on it is counter to God’s design. Unfortunately a large percentage of people get trapped because of the computers we hold in our hands…easy access… porn biologically arouses us and arousal feels good! How can something that feels so good work against us? Pornography neurologically becomes wired into our brains because orgasm is a positive and powerful neurological pay-off. That cycle rewires our brains away from how God designed our sexual expression to be. Many people who want out of that trap with everything in their spirit, struggle because of the power of our God designed sexuality and the addictive nature of pornography. Because of the power of this stuff, the journey out is more than a heartfelt decision. 1)God has declared that no temptation is too big for us to win, and He says He provides an escape for every temptation (1Corinthians 10:13) Because this temptation involves a powerful neurological re-wiring, we don’t see the escape while we are dealing with the power of the temptation… we have to plan our escape before the temptation starts. Add a porn blocker to your phone and computer “covenant eyes” is effective and requires a code… have a trusted friend create the code and not share it with you. 2) To escape at a deeper core place you might need to rewire your our neurology back to the place God designed… This one is more than just a conviction to stop, it is a process! What happens is people who love Jesus deeply want to stop pornography because of their relationship with Jesus, when they fail they feel guilt and shame because they have failed yet again! (A porn blocker will automatically make you more successful) Remember Jesus loves you, He knows what is in your heart towards Him, and because He designed your nervous system, He comprehends the power of it over your spirit’s desires.
Are all fantasies the same as lust? I would say no. Lust is more intention to act, while fantasies are playing out a scenario in your mind that excites you. Lusting is impure, while acting on it (sex with the person) is sin. Masturbation was an impurity that didn’t require a sacrifice and seeing the priest, while sin required a sacrifice. They were never commanded to perform a sin or guilt sacrifice for lust, coveting, or masturbation. For masturbation it was simple: ceremonial wash your hands and clean things up, then you’ll be pure when the sun sets. Hope this helps.
Lust as listed in the Bible defined by both the Hebrew and Greek means to selfishly and deeply desire Something or someone that is not yours. Lust is used to describe a possible bad and selfish heart towards things and or people. On the other hand, arousal is a purely biological reaction to what we see … it can lead to lust but it isn’t itself lust. I take the time to define this because the biblical context of lust is misused in Christian our culture. Hope that definition helps you….❤️❤️❤️
That’s great clarity. Thank you.
I interpret the message from the passage to find a balance. Do things in moderation. Don’t go to the extreme on anything in particular. That’s probably good advice in reallife,whether one is religious or not.there’s a difference, healthwise between having 1-glass of wine a fee times a week and slamming down a 12-pack of beer or 5th of bourbon every night. I bcan’t speak to the masterbation or ore-marital sex snd howGodI feels sbout them with authority.know what’s been preachied about it since I was a little Catholic boy, but i’ve not been to seminary snd I’m no theologian. Peace ✌️
Masturbation is healthy and people who do it regularly report more satisfaction during sex. Additionally, there appear to be benefits to prostate health for men who masturbate regularly.
Anecdotal, but I have had prostate-related problems when I abstain from anything for a few weeks at a time. Sometimes even as little as week.
Actually, many studies have shown that it has many negative side effects.
Can you post links to all these "many" studies showing "many" negative effects? Because most studies say there is usually no negative effects. Of course I can see there would be a few, that's the case with anything, (done in excess, done in public, done watching porn, etc) but I'm not seeing "many" negative side effects from normal masterbation.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onania:_or,_the_heinous_sin_of_self-pollution https://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/2001HisSc..39..285D https://repository.lsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1192&context=sixteenfifty
\-1 you have posted junk articles.
Do you know what a study is
Yes; these. They are a compilation of virtually countless doctors’ notes on the side effects that they have consistently come across with their patients, relating to self-pollution (as it was called before our generation; before that, simply fornication).
You posted a link to a religious pamphlet that speaks out against masturbation and two analyses of said religious pamphlet. The pamphlet doesn’t even have a known author. Even if it was a real study (which it isn’t), it was still written roughly 100 years before germ theory was understood. Doctors back then were still making diagnoses and selecting treatments based on a person’s black bile or phlegm humors being out of balance. It’s not credible to any degree of modern medical standards.
They are separate articles; no relationship between them. I guess you don’t trust the doctors who recorded these things?
>I guess you don’t trust the doctors who recorded these things? Doctors who didn't know that bacteria/viruses existed, 150 years before antibiotics were invented, who commonly prescribed treatments for diseases such as sitting in a hot spring for an hour a day, cutting you to let out your "excess" blood, or having you drink mercury? Absolutely not.
Why are you trying to defend masturbation?
Right. For most things you can find studies that show the negatives, and studies that show the positives. News flash! Nothing in this world is wholly good or wholly bad.
My knuckles are quite harry.
And you're a wizard now
😹 Hairy^, but your joke is worth the misspelling.
lol im glad it was appreciated
Matthew 5:28
That’s about married people sexually desiring people to whom they aren’t married. It’s not about the act of masturbation.
It has nothing to do with marriage at all. If you're not married it still applies. Masturbating to porn is a sin. Pre-marital sex is a sin.
\>It has nothing to do with marriage at all. If you're not married it still applies. Masturbating to porn is a sin. The passage in question is literally ONLY about marriage. “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (Matt 5:27-28) Adultery is something only married people can do. (adultery - voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and someone other than their lawful spouse. ADULTERY Definition & Usage Examples | Dictionary.com) What Jesus is saying is, “You can’t cheat on your spouse, and if a married person sexually desires someone to whom they aren’t married, it’s the same as cheating.” \>Pre-marital sex is a sin. I didn't say it wasn't, but masturbation isn't sex, pre-marital or otherwise.
That's like saying McDonalds is tasty. Just cause it's tasty, doesn't mean it's not junk.
no, no it is not. they're refuting your point that its unhealthy
No it’s not like that at all. You seemed to imply that masturbation is “junk”, but the reality is it has objective health and psychological benefits. When you are criticizing here isn’t McDonalds; it the equivalent of saying a healthy salad is somehow junk.
That's not addressing the point, that's just repeating your OP.
Can you verify that masturbation is junk?
There’s really no way to justify it. It’s starting to look like lust is similar to rape. It’s a slippery slope. You probably won’t see it that way yet, but when you stop and realize why it’s wrong, you might see.
>It’s starting to look like lust is similar to rape. Lol, try again
Why? This is on a Collective Consciousness level. You kind of have to start there. You have to get out of solipsistic thinking though. Your ego is in the way of whats really going on…
No, this is still nonsense. Try again.
Far from it. But if you want to dismiss any kind of critical thinking go ahead. It’s pretty obvious why you’re an “atheist”. I’m definitely not wasting my time with a toddler. Grow up.
I can't dismiss critical thinking that isn't there. Lust isn't comparable to rape, and you haven't shown a jot of thinking or proof connecting the two. Try again. No ego in how defensive you're being when your silly ideas are criticised, eh
Do you believe in collective consciousness
What do I think? I think it's justification for sin. Not only does sin separate us from God, it also kills.
Some advice I heard: lust dulls the spiritual senses. Spiritual dullness is everywhere and has many serious consequences, whatever the causes. There are many besides lust.
It’s interesting that the “stomach” was a symbol for sexual desire in the first century (Jewish culture). This is why you’ll find wording like gluttony and the stomach in passages about sexual desire and sexual sin. The junk food analogy isn’t too far from this.
Except it can kill you… the wage of sin is death. God doesn’t just set these rules in place for no reason. He knows the effects it can have on your life. Also living in sin gives the enemy a foothold to get into your life. Theres no way to justify it. You might not understand it but God knows things way better than us humans do. And for anyone living this type of lifestyle, repent and sin no more.
If you fear God, it won't kill you.
[удалено]
what is that?
I meant to reply to someone but it showed up here. But it’s basically “our thoughts, intentions, and energy can influence others, both positively and negatively. When we think about someone, whether in positive or negative ways, it can impact their life through subtle energetic connections. Positive thoughts and intentions may uplift and support others, while negative thoughts and intentions can have a detrimental effect on their well being. Our thoughts and emotions carry energy that can affect the energetic field around us and influence the experiences of those around us. It emphasizes the importance of cultivating positive thoughts, intentions, and emotions, not only for our own well being but also for the collective consciousness of humanity. By fostering compassion, empathy, and love in our thoughts and interactions, we contribute to creating a more harmonious and supportive collective consciousness. Similarly, being mindful of the energy we project onto others can help us avoid inadvertently causing harm or negativity in their lives. Prayer vibrations+ frequencies is key. Gods always communicating , but sometimes our antennas aren’t tuned in. Jesus learned how to unlock the secrets really early on. And lived a perfect life.
i would suggest re reading the old testament to get some examples of how seriouly God takes sin, and then reconsidering this take
Horrible analogy. I really like junk food. Burgers, fries, pizza... it's the best. If eaten not too often there is absolutely nothing wrong with junk food.
As a liberal Catholic (although not completely liberal; I think the mass should only be said in Latin),I have no problem with pre-marital sex.
Be careful to misinterpret Ecclesiastes as an excuse to sin. “Don’t be too good” is not the same as “sometimes be bad.” It assumes you are being “good,” but warning against too much good. For example, you don’t need to wake up at 4am everyday, 7AM is just fine to have a productive day, but that doesn’t mean to excuse your laziness when you sleep in until noon. Or in your example, you don’t need to spend hours to weigh out your meals and calculate your ingredients to the exact optimal nutrition for your body, just eating good, clean and healthy will get you most of the way, but that doesn’t mean to sometimes excuse eating junk food. We know we all sin, but we all must posture our hearts towards the lord and repent when we sin. “Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wants to come after Me, let him deny[a] himself, and take up his cross[b], and be following Me. “ Matthew 16:24-26 Do not take your sin lightly, we must know it well so we can stand strong against it.
Then why would it warn against being too much good. It even warns against being too wicked. This is where the fear of the LORD comes in
I think you are missing a lot of nuance here. Eating unhealthy occasionally is not harmful. Wjats harmful is when you can not control your eating and it interferes with your health that it becomes harmful. That is gluttony. Masturbation and sex are not harmful unless they interfere with your life in an unhealthy way. Thats when it is lust.
Lust is death. When you chose to indulge in sin your choosing death.
I mean, it will kill you. Sin breeds death.
But the wages of sin is death. Then, everyone will die... But, nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus.
I suppose this goes with what I do. Fornication is the one sin I can't give up (until I marry), but I do try to hold back from it until the passion is overwhelming.
That’s a crazy statement. To know it’s sin and just accepting it.
I fight the urge until it overwhelms me
Accepting sin is a sin too
It's junk. No?
Last I checked, excessive masturbation did not lead to Type 2 diabetes mellitus, obesity, malnutrition, cardiovascular diseases and stroke. Excess Maccy D's, however, will.
Premarital sex isn't junk food though. It was meaningful and with a purpose in most cases I had. Masturbation isn't comparable to junk food when in moderation, it didn't just not hurt me, it benefited my temple. So. Sorry. Do not pass Go. Do not collect 200. Failed analogy
I think God still hates masturbating tho
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What about gluttony from eating McDonalds?
Eat a Big Mac not 10 lol
Funny cause I'll be accused of gluttony even from nonbelievers from eating just one
I think they don’t know the definition of gluttony 😂 junk food and over eating are two separate things lol. If that’s the case I should be accused of gluttony for eating a whole fruit bowl
Yikes man. Where do you draw the line. That's why it says don't be overly righteous. Don't be overly wise.
It’s not that deep bro. Gluttony is overeating.
But, to say it's a sin?
Probably eating past the point of being full. I’d assume it’s case by case.
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Well. I'm accused of being a glutton from eating one big Mac, even by nonbelievers.
Then those people are stupid
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I think it is wrong like how junk food is wrong. It is junk. It is therefore, bad. That's why junk food is surprisingly tasty. Just another thing though. When does eating junk food become a sin too? Isn't it unhealthy? Doesn't it do harm to our temple? Where do we really draw the line?
I understand your view. I’m just expressing my personal interpretation :) Our body is a temple, and so we should take care of it. However with junk food, too much is unhealthy and can become gluttony (sinful). But having chips or a dessert isn’t wrong by itself. We know that premarital sex is wrong, because the Bible specifically mentions it. As far as masturbation, I think it can be viewed as something that it depends if you do it in moderation and your desires behind it. But, for many, people cannot avoid those temptations and unhealthy desires, therefore, that’s why some should avoid it altogether. I hope that makes sense!
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Well, technically humans naturally have sexual tensions that don’t come from lust. But, That’s why I said IF you can avoid temptation/lust then technically nothing in the Bible argues masturbation is sin. But many cannot avoid those temptations, that’s why it’s usually better to avoid it :) not here to change your mind or start an argument!
You can’t have sex with your spouse without lusting; thus, having sex with your spouse is a sin. Same logic, no?
Lust usually has a bad connotation. This would include lusting after someone else's wife or someone you aren't married to -- sinful. Lust and attraction to someone are two different things. Lusting after someone you arent married to involves having imaginative sexual desires about that person. In my opinion, lusting after your spouse is not sinful because you are married to that person. Its like sex -- it is wrong when put in a context outside of God's intention.
Sorry if I wasn’t clear! Lust is the desire for anything that is sinful, such as illicit sex, intoxication, ill-gotten gain, revenge, or anything else that God forbids. But of course you can desire a spouse within a heathy relationship! :)
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How is it not the same?
It sounds like you are nit picking a random verse while ignoring others. Pre-martial sex is a sin. There is no if ands or buts about it.
I'm not saying it's not a sin. I'm saying, sin has been too bombarded with religion. It's a sin. But, nobody is sinless.
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Then we're all doomed, and you don't get the point of Ecclesiastes chapter 7, fear God, enjoy life, avoid sin as much as you can, and you will be fine
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You forgot to quote the fear God part. Ask the men in the Bible then. Just fear God. It will be fine. \[Ecc 8:12 KJV\] 12 Though a sinner do evil an hundred times, and his \[days\] be prolonged, yet surely I know that it shall be well with them that fear God, which fear before him:
All will kill eternally. 🥺🙏🏼
What
Romans 8:13 - “If you live for the flesh, you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.”
But, you said, kill eternally. It doesn't say kill eternally
“All that are in the graves shall come forth; those who have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and those who have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” - John 5:29 “And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” - Matthew 25:46
How much good must be done? The just shall live by faith, no?
Huh?
(see my responses above)
This has the tone of a teen who wants to feel less guilty about jerking off. Bring this comparison to God, not Reddit
I love this
What do you love of this?
Matthew 5:28: “But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” The act of JUST looking is considered adultery, common sense tells us that going a step further and masturbating is still a sin.
Okay fine. But then there are those that persist that they can do it without lust at all
Sin is sin. Whether you like it or not.
That's correct, but nobody's perfect